The Problem With FNaF Theorizing (Five Nights at Freddy's) - DMuted

[@trevondowen8844]

I feel like the problem with fnaf theories now is that it’s like taking different puzzles and seeing which of the pieces fit. Yea you can make a puzzle from these different pieces but it necessarily doesn’t make sense and will be rearranged later.

[@Cake2019_6]

Tbh some things truly make no sense in Fnaf no matter how it gets explained even when it gets confirmed from Scott or Steelwoolstudios

[@1slayer959]

I mean, you just explained fnaf lore

[@cadencase5216]

FNaF is a blank puzzle with no printing.

[@MistrMr438]

The newer fnaf content we have, is mostly straightforward, though most fnaf fans make it so complicated and convoluted for no reason at all.

[@1slayer959]

@@MistrMr438 straightforward? What fnaf content are you consuming and is it secretly cocaine? If so can I have some?

[@HollowTransient]

Thank you so much for bringing up the "Theory Cannibalism." I wasn't sure what to call it, but it was something I noticed that I also was really disliked but saw happening all over the place (even for other franchises) Like, it can get so bad it feels like basically a fanfic. Which is fine! If people want to make fanfiction, then do it! But just admit that's what it is at this point, realize that your foundation stopped being set in stone and instead is just built off of self-made shakey connections

[@higueraft571]

Like Matpat's "Greggory MUST be a Robot Child, and Mrs Afton MUST be the CEO and that Michael MUST have been scooped before FNAF 2"? :V

[@klaykid117]

In programming you would call this 'Recursive" meaning it relies on what came before. Honestly for the movie release Scott should just release a book that definitively says "This is what happened before in the early games"

[@syweb2]

You can thank The Twisted ones, The Fourth Closet, and Fazbear Frights for a good chunk of our Theorist Gangrene, as someone might choose to call it. The Fourth Closet introduced the plague of the Robot Kid, Frights introduced the narrative parallels because that was the _only_ satisfying way of incorporating their information into the games' continuity, and The Twisted Ones introduced the ass-pull Illusion Disks and (probably) Afton's mad scientist persona. I can't wait for the FNaF movie, because it might actually be the most straightforward side-media/adaptation in years.

[@alexoxo1]

I mean apparently they’re not illusion disks but hallucinatory gas which we wouldn’t have known either way. And have you seen sister location he IS a mad scientist. And lol thinking the movie will fix anything. I hoped so but Mike has a random sister that’s still alive.

[@ashuraomega1000]

Not entirely Afton still seems like a mad scientist in the movie while in the first game he was just a murderer

[@tonysonic456]

On the note with the books being canon, I feel like forcing people to read the books to understand the story you're trying to tell, especially when the previous sets of books were either set in their own continuity or just short, nonsensical Goosebumps stories, is a really bad way to tell a story. If you rely so heavily on books to tell a story in your game, then you run the risk of someone inevitably being confused about certain details just because they either didn't know about the books or didn't think they needed to. All of the buildup for the Mimic is in the books, and all the people who want it to be Glitchtrap and Burntrap are saying there were hints in the games prior. Except there wasn't. Glitchtrap was William again. All the signs pointed to William being back again, and there were even voice lines in the trailers for Security Breach that were clearly Glitchtrap talking to Vanny. The Mimic comes out of nowhere unless you read the books, and expecting every single FNAF fan out there to read every single Tales from the Pizzaplex book is ludicrous.

[@Takejiro24]

Honestly, I'm beginning to get really angry with this franchise's version of storytelling. It's everything you said. The games' story is so vague and cryptic that we really do *need* the books to help fill in the blanks. What's getting me more and more is that the books, from what I can tell, don't go this route of cryptic storytelling and do give us stories that are laid out and straightforward. It's weird.

[@Trecherousbeast]

The problem with a lot of theories nowadays is that they’re slowly turning into fanfiction. It’s very commonplace in “fandoms” for people to just start making up character traits for characters or headcanons for story that they start believing is canon based on flimsy or made up evidence. Normally, the easiest way to fix this would be to simply rewatch/reread/etc the story so that you can actually refresh your mind on what’s canon and what’s something you just thought would be cool, but you can’t really do that with FNAF. Since it’s got a big reputation for being confusing on purpose, a lot of people automatically start going towards the Game Theory type videos to get the “real” story, but you have no idea how “refreshed” someone’s mind might be on actual FNAF canon and how much is a story they think is cool that they’re scrambling to find evidence for. As the gaps between FNAF games get bigger, this might become a more prevalent issue.

[@CarnidevRae]

well really theories dont matter anymore because its more of having to guess how bad the whiplash is going to be when the next game comes out and they do something they made like one extremely tiny detail in the previous game

[@greatsaiyaguy8868]

Undertale/Deltarune fandom be like

[@rafsandomierz5313]

@@greatsaiyaguy8868 What kind of theories are there that are not covering in some ways with canon? I understand Ralsei being evil is one of those but the rest is pretty spot on and do not that go far out of the canon story.

[@aiden.a4166]

Stop calling out game theory man

[@captainswagger2838]

Another problem is the books just casually saying “oh yeah that major story beat was actually just a game in universe” as was done with 6 recently. And then there’s the whole back and forth on if the new books are even canon to the games or if it’s a situation like the silver eyes trilogy. And then There’s stuff like the room with all the plush baby’s that disappear. Things that seem important and work with other small details but are small enough people ignore them or may not mean anything.

[@justsomerandomperson6506]

One of my least favorite theories involving Elizabeth that isn’t her being Vanessa or robot Charlie has to be her being the new CEO of the company. How on earth would Elizabeth a child who was killed in the 80s and spent decades trapped in an animatronic, be able to not only revive a basically dead brand but also seemingly run it successfully?

[@fnaffoxy1987]

The worst theory I have seen, I won't name who, but they said that Elizabeth was the CEO, that Vanessa was a robot Elizabeth, and there were more Elizabeths around as well, not just one.

[@connorbruhmoment]

@@fnaffoxy1987We know it’s Game Theory and FuhNaff. No need to sugarcoat it, we know they have been stretching it for quite a while now with this narrative

[@higueraft571]

@@Wizardjones69 >PREGNANCE a man was Pergenantede?!? Pegnant Trappy? Gregnant?!!?

[@jimboroyale]

@@higueraft571 are you ok.

[@theoneandonlyhooda]

​@@connorbruhmoment didn't game theory say otherwise in the ultimate timeline video

[@itselizauwu]

FNAF is the only series where Scott can literally spell out the entire backstory of the Mimic to introduce it as a new character and the community completely ignores that and comes up with an entirely new backstory and how the Mimic is actually a older character returning..

[@higueraft571]

Admittedly, part of the problem is the fact the books really just DONT line neatly, at all. Which calls their validity on the Game Timeline into question. Which calls the information we get from it into question. There's a bunch of POSSIBLY handy info in the Character Encyclopedia that could be used... except there's enough errors to make us wonder "is this ACTUAL lore, or an error?"

[@captainswagger2838]

Well if the current leaks of the last book are real the books aren’t the mimics backstory. Outside of all the inconsistencies of the books and the game the newest epilogue is pretty final in its story for the mimic. In a way that would keep the books from being game lore without a large in between explanation

[@higueraft571]

@@captainswagger2838 Yeah... with the new Book, it kinda nosedives the "Talesline" theory significantly.

[@caylya7869]

In game it said the mimic is really old.

[@higueraft571]

@@caylya7869 It's honestly KINDA Vague, because the only info we have is Greggory saying it's been down there for a "really long time". This could be 10 years, or 20, or 50, we really dont know...

[@ClavisKey]

Amazing video! You summarized alot of my issues with recent fnaf theories! Most theorists seem to hyperfocus on small details to tell the story instead of focusing on the narrative right in front of them

[@kewlkid4364]

Glad that more people are covering this lmao, one of my major problems with the “Oops all Elizabeth” theories is that it hinges and builds off of things with little evidence, and in the end is a bad way of telling the story because unless you watched a bunch of theory videos there’s no way you’re guessing THAT’s what happens. You can pull all the evidence you want but if it’s a horrible storytelling decision then I doubt it’s plausibility

[@fnaffoxy1987]

This is why the Bonnie neon sign killing Monty is the evidence that hammers down for me that Monty killed Bonnie, the narrative with it just makes way too much sense for it not to be the case. Narrative evidence is strong evidence for me.

[@justice8718]

Except Baby in SL is the Mimic. With the same powers and interests.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

@@justice8718 That's just not true.

[@justice8718]

@@fnaffoxy1987 Explain night 1 of Baby's room.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

@@justice8718 Night 1 of sister location? Baby has seen what happens so many times before. She doesn't need to be the mimic to learn a pattern and how to break it. She was trying to gain your trust so you'd follow her instructions to get scooped so they could use you to escape.

[@juicybucky9647]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. you covered every issue i have with modern theories!! people aren’t paying attention to what’s given directly to us, and instead are turning their heads to stretch these theories into wild unrecognizable stories. those types of theories have even turned me off from fnaf theories in general.

[@Lundcraft]

Very glad you made a video about this, because it needs to be talked about. Because there is so much lore and easter eggs, people have the habit of overthinking everything, which leads more to confusion than solving anything. It ends down a rabbit hole of bias and tunnel vision. Theory discussion, disagreement and criticism, should be okay to do without being hateful. It's sad to see some therapist being worried about getting hate on their theories.

[@mister_matt]

Y'know I've been actively trying to get FNaF off my socials for years, but this video intrigued me...and I wasn't disappointed. Congratulations, you have demonstrated common sense in a time of prevailing insanity! Look, I've been saying that Help Wanted was a reboot, pure and simple, since it released. So many people insist otherwise with ridiculously unintuitive mental gymnastics, and worst of all, they might actually be right because of Security Breach. You are correct about the fandom's mental ''theory cannibalism'', as well as the absolute cult-like behaviour of stans who parrot popular theories like they're gospel, dismissing years of information to make one new thing fit and displaying immense hostility to everyone who disagrees with them in any way. You are also correct about Scott Cawthon's design philosophy, Mr Hippo's stories, and his interview with Dawko really hammering home that, essentially, ''its not that deep''...in 2018. Since 2019, Scott Cawthon has become more and more unrecognisable. His lack of engagement with the fandom, essentially faking retirement and ghosting his community has left a hole, and the franchise's actual content has lacked direction and proper management. He has abandoned us and utterly failed to manage any aspect of this franchise - Funko is still producing shitty merch, hit and miss short stories hardly anyone reads are still being pumped out, and while the Fanverse burns in endless controversies there is only one actual ''main'' game relevant right now, and its fucking Security Breach. This fandom sucks and has gotten worse in many ways, sure, but the quality of the writing and storytelling absolutely nosedived since UCN, and there is only one common denominator behind all the story - Scott Cawthon. If he actually told a story instead of spinning out poorly-executed connections between different developers and writers with books and games, neither of which he communicates the full story with, while also undoing the satisfying conclusions for the characters from Pizzeria Simulator, none of this would be a problem anymore. At this point he needs to kill the canon or something, there's so many easy solutions to the Lore Problem - never mind the real world issues facing FNaF right now - but Scott Cawthon still owns all the rights to FNaF, same as he did back in 2014, so nothing like this can happen without him. Sigh...this is why I stay away from FNaF now...its just strife, endless strife. I guess its nice to know that people like you are still in this hellhole trying to educate folks. Best of luck. You'll probably need it...

[@simonvpc8886]

It’s not that: “this small old thing was teasing something revealed years later”, it’s that: “this thing that meant nothing before now has meaning in this recent thing.”

[@oceanocelot7379]

I personally dont like theorizing in 2023 because it seems that there are no answers for anything in the series and they always seem to add random info to confuse us or change their minds about an answer right as the community gets close to it. With all the books and games it feels like to get a good understanding of the franchise you have to invest half of your life into it and even after that you seem to be back where you started. still love it tho and cant wait for the movie😂

[@higueraft571]

>in 2023 Jokes on you, it's ALWAYS been this way :V Ever wanted to know what Gfreddy's deal is? How about the DCI (if that ever happened)? The Shadows? What about Shadow Puppet/BB/etc? (those last three are from ONE game, and it's pretty much never been elaborated on, aside from MAYBE a tiny bit in FNAF *AR* of all things for the second...)

[@Spooky_Sal]

Thank you so much for making this because a lot of recent theories have been driving me absolutely insane at how disconnected they are

[@BasicViewer]

I've been so upset with the theories lately. Thank you for talking about this.

[@bluestrangler0447]

1. The fucking SALT I am LIVING FOR IT 2. This is such a W take, more theorists need to watch this. Another thing that you touched on that bugs me is when people try to go back to games that came out like 7 years ago to back up their theory for the present-day story and it’s like, those hints have come and gone

[@higueraft571]

>those hints have come and gone There's... literally nothing saying this. You can 100% retroactively make something a Hint that wasnt before, make something Old "new" again. Infact, it's suspected Scott left several random threads lying around SPECIFICALLY incase he cooked up a plot that he could then hook into that.

[@bluestrangler0447]

Errr let me clarify what I meant by that, I meant hints that were already pointing to something (like tiny Toy Chica missing her beak pointing to Dream theory). I think that Scott does probably leave some loose threads to clarify (though I still don't really think anything in FNAF 1-3 is really left for him to try and do that with) but certain things were meant to point to one thing that has come and gone. That's more what I was going for

[@porcelainchips6061]

In the lead up to Security Breach, Scott described his involvement with the game as "I asked them (steel wool) to bake me a cake and then checked back on them some months later". He re-integrated that he checked on them every so often and, if anything, hinted that he wasn't impressed by their rate of progress. The reason why I think this is important to bring up is Scott tried to make it very clear (after he was canceled by the fandom) that he no longer makes video games; he manages an Intellectual property. He's made it a point to seperate himself from whatever Steel Wool makes; insisting it should be judged as their product, their creative expression. And, right after Scott was canceled everyone seemed really on-board with the message; Okay, maybe people are mad at him, but we should not project anything onto Security Breach, because SB is made by a team of well-meaning people who have nothing to do with Scott as a person and are, in fact, making a whole game for us that is original. I think this is really, really important to keep in mind, because in addition to the insistence that Scott has handed over the Video Game License to Steel Wool, it's also heavily believed he is not always directly involved with the books. Many theorists point out that the books show signs of Scott not being the leader writer, but a contributor. I bring all of this up to day that the last Offical thing we can confirm Scott made on his own was Fury’s Rage, which was not a “planned” element to go with the launch of Security Breach; it was an apology present from the owner of an IP who was self-admitting he wasn’t necessarily doing as much as he could to influence SB to come out on time. So, in conclusion; FNAF as a series, as an IP, has many many many writers at this point. It was an indie series with one creator with a singular narrative, but it has since become an IP like Star Wars or Marvel with multiple writing teams across different media formats and they may or may not even bee in contact with each other. Do I point this out as a negative? No; I just think that one problem with theory videos is we collectively keep framing the evolving story of FNAF as Scott’s Baby, but it hasn’t been since UCN. At the latest, we got Fury’s Rage; but that is Scott working off of his understanding of Steel Wool’s narrative. There’s nothing wrong with a franchise having lots of writers, but I think it’s unfair to sort of forget that and blame it all on one individual writer who isn’t directly involved anymore.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

Scott may have described his involvement that way, but Steel Wool have said that Scott was telling them to put stuff into the game that they didn't understand. Nothing Steel Wool did got put in without Scott's approval. They were very clear about that. Scott is still orchestrating the story. He's communicating with the writers of the books to include certain things while also having things put into the games. This is the only way I can see a sensible story coming out of this, since if there's no communication between the mediums, the story would be a mess at best and nonsensical at worst.

[@caylya7869]

You do realize steel wool said Scott is telling them the storyline. They’re not the lead making up the beginning and the end.

[@porcelainchips6061]

@@caylya7869 Yes, Steel Wool did say that at one point. But also before he was cancelled and after he was cancelled the "how much is Scott involved" question kept having a shifting answer. The reason why I assume SB is 99.9% Steel Wool's baby is because that is the message that was pushed harder. Eventually, after it's release, the answer to the question shifted a bit again. So maybe the true answer is not clear, but what I assume is that is a member of a project initially distances themselves and everyone agrees then I don't try to retro-actively blame the person who left the project. Even if he set the beginning and ending, that means they have complete narrative control over how the story tells itself to the viewer; the majority of everything said in a story is between the start and the finish; you can re-contextualize both, in either direction, depending on what you fill that middle with. A person can say "at the end this character dies" but depending on what you fill the middle section with, you can have the viewer feel sad about the character death or happy about it. It's still control over the majority of the story, so when trying to figure out the mystery it comes back to trying to understand what kind of a story Steel Wool wanted to tell, not how the IP license owner wanted the ending to look like.

[@klaykid117]

@@fnaffoxy1987 Oh no as a Star Wars fan I just realized that Scott is George Lucas. There was a canceled Star Wars video game that was supposed to be about Darth Maul going on revenge after he got his legs cut off and George Lucas was in the studio looking at a demo of the game and he reaches over to a statue of a sith twi’lek that came from the original sequel era and said “hey put this character in the game she looks like she could be a cool companion for Darth Maul” the studio tried to explain to him that she was born 150 years after Darth maul died but he didn't care he just said put it in the game and I can totally see Scott doing this asking for little funny things to be put in the game cause he thinks it sounds super cool without thinking about the broad story importance.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

@@klaykid117 The problem with that line of thinking is that Scott learned long ago that people will take whatever details are put in as clues to the story, so the fun stuff has to obviously be for fun, like the Freddy nose honk. Scott even said back after FNAF 4 released that "People thought I filled the game with random Easter Eggs this time. I didn't". Scott admitted in the interview that the clues he left in FNAF 4 were probably a little too vague, and that Sister Location leaned a little too sci fi and that he needed to reign the story back in. I'd say that after FNAF 2 he was planning out where the story would go and by FNAF 4 or Sister Location he knew not to just throw stuff in for fun unless it was clear that it was just for fun.

[@TheRealSuperRabbid]

As a Pennsylvanian, I would like to confirm that Circus Baby actually is running for Pennsylvania governor.

[@Ivan_RA]

I think thats the key phrase "take a step back" I felt that when Help wanted told us that not everything is canon It was like if Steel wool and Scott were telling us, stop reading too much into this, take a step back, this is a reboot lets see what works and what not In FNAF 4 was the same, "kids can see weird things in shadows", and then Mr Hippo in FNAF 7 "a story is just a story" they keep telling us that we can just enjoy the ride but instead, a lot of people is trying to predict the impossible with weird theories Thats why the books are now heavy handed, they need to be as clear as possible, so people can understand (at least with these new books old theories are dying, goodbye delusion disks)

[@ShrapnelStars]

I think an additional factor that led into this was that people didn't realize how hung up they had become on solving every inch of the old games, that it had started to affect their judgement on the new ones. I have seen so many threads of people trying to tie old characters into this new era, but most have this underlying impetus to solve FNaF4 and everything surrounding it, even though all of the devs had long since moved on and (rightfully) decided to let that game die. The vibe I get is that people don't want the old characters to come back just because. They want them to come back because they are hoping that they will give additional insight into what happened in the old games and tie everything up, past present and future, in some kind of neat bow. That's not going to happen, and it will also derail the new story that is trying to emerge. The sad part is that even with the TftPP story "Dittophobia" that was recently leaked, people are still clamoring to invalidate it's (relative) simplicity and finality and keep the complexity/cannibalism addiction going. I have a strong feeling that that story was released to try to get people to finally drop FNaF4 from their minds and move on to the new story arc, but people are still so dead set on making things more complicated than necessary that they are psyching themselves out thinking that they missed some hidden meaning in it. Having said that, I feel like things wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if they didn't drop a Springtrap look-a-like and a Molten Freddy look-a-like in SB. If those two hadn't happened, I don't think we'd be dealing with "parallel" and "Elizabeth" spam, or at least not as aggressively as it exists now. Those two inclusions primed everyone to think about old characters coming into this new arc, and as of Ruin, they have done nothing of value for the story.

[@pifonto-fr]

so true gilbert garfield

[@legomarioboy08]

Scott: *Inserts some simple lore for his fans to find* The fans: *Proceed to interpret the simple lore in the most bizarre ways possible*

[@shadowslayer205]

Also Scott: *Runs with the bizzare ideas because the fans end up liking them more than the actual story.*

[@MistrMr438]

Literally the newer fnaf content we have had, has been mostly straightforward, though many fnaf fans make it complicated and convoluted just because they don't like some ideas offered by the new games and books.

[@FunkOnO]

while theories might be wild, don't sugarcoat scott, he doesn't know what he is doing most of the time either

[@SCP-469]

FNAF movie theories in a nutshell

[@doughytown4188]

This is exactly how matpat and fuhnaff have been making me feel lately. I know they’re not the only ones, but they’re the loudest, and it’s hard to ignore them for that reason.

[@stardestroyer81]

The sentence "Circus Baby is actually coming back to life and running for US Governor of Pennsylvania" was so absurd that it elicited one of my most genuine laughs in a while

[@dastatic1594]

I start to laugh when they bring up Nightmarionne considering it wasn't even canon to begin with. When Help Wanted dropped everyone started to think it's canon (atleast I think so). The other issue with Charlie being in SB is idiotic. If we take UCN lines as canon Charlie doesn't seem like a person to hold grudge. When Pizzaria Sim fire happened I think she wanted to rest more than anyone. That's it. Uhhh, yea.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

Nightmarionne wasn't canon in the FNAF 4 halloween character, and only became "canon" due to Help Wanted and their canonicity went as far as being a video game character like Mario or Sonic is in our world. That's about the extent of Nightmarionne's canonicity.

[@jacquelineprice5043]

Well, at the time, when we thought Afton had returned, it made sense Charlie would also remain. Not because of a grudge, but to help stop him. Especially since that's literally what happened in the post-Pizza Sim Afton return storyline from Fazbear Frights that is sadly probably canon. Afton lives on due to UCN, and Puppet somehow survived the damn fire and then helps to defeat him once and for all. Can't blame people for thinking the games were bringing that story to life when we didn't know what the Mimic was.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

@@theihalvesxd721 He's still technically fictional in UCN. That whole thing is being made to torture William in his mind or in his own personal Hell, so he's still not a real character until Help Wanted and even then he's just a video game character. Let's not forget that the roster of characters for UCN was decided by Scott when asking the fans who they'd want to see in the game.

[@SirFiftyFive]

I'm super glad you made this video. I've been trying to get into the theory side of FNAF forever now but anytime I try it feels too daunting. So many theorists are looking too far into things to the point where it becomes overwhelming to follow. Not to mention the people who listen to theories and provide little feedback while also wishing harsh things upon the theorizer. Anyway, super glad that people are finally starting to point this out, great video btw.

[@a_random_soul_on_the_internet]

Exactly! Scott himself said, he made and changed things as he went along. People just make things so deep when they are not.

[@danaugg9183]

Sometimes a story is just a story,you try to read into everything little thing and find meaning in everything everyone says,you’ll just drive yourself crazy

[@dynamicsavi]

Imo, this is absolutely BEST seen with the box mystery. The box isn't a mystery. Scott literally said *it's the pieces put together.* It's the COMPLETE FNaF story. That's why it's changed over time, and that's why Scott worried about whether or not the fans would accept and like the contents (he said this at the time of Dream theory). It's not the missing, legendary lore-solving piece, it's just the story. Scott is no longer sticking with the dream plot, that's why he's saying that what was in the box is best left forgotten. It annoys me how the fandom focuses on mysteries like these (which are hardly mysteries), but are dead set on simplifying geunine mysteries like William's motives. If you asked a FNaF fan what was in the box, they'd pull out quantum theories and mechanics - but when you ask them William's motives, they get offended and say "obviously for fun" and refuse to engage in anymore conversation.

[@nuteniumtokyo]

Circus Baby and Charlie theories In Particular are REALLY Annoying to me. Cause we saw that afton was back and that the blob was a thing and collectively lost our shit about how steel wool and scott wasn't letting the past of the series die. But now we're all good with just reviving characters for no reason and little substantial evidence. Fact of the matter is we're more or less looking at fnaf 1 and trying to build the entire fnaf timeline from there. Which you simply can not do.

[@bewtyboo]

I think the problem is less about the theorists and more about the source material. The mystery is whats fun about this series, the problem is that we need more than scraps and we need a few clear answers. I think that would help a ton. I like the popular theorists that you hinted towards (but didn't like their theories), but I think overall....we just need to remember that these are theories. Nobody's right until things are confirmed. I think we should just take it lightly.

[@EdmondDantes224]

I posted this on a different video but its also appropriate here: One thing I've always found frustrating about FNAF lore discussion is... basically, I'm not sure what the "rules" are. This is actually something I recall Matpat mentioning as well. In your video though, you bring up the part where Phone Guy says "singing those same songs for twenty years." But... does that really establish a timeline? Its a dude on a phone making a general statement. He's just a fellow employee--and despite what the internet tends to think, being employed by a company does not mean you know the minutiae of their history (how many McDonalds employees ever heard of Mayor McCheese?) It would be like if I said "sixty years ago, Batman was the hottest thing on TV." That's just me making a guess at how long ago it was, a guess that could easily be wrong (and in that example, definitely is). So you wouldn't take my statement as definitive when establishing a timeline. So why should I take some number a doofus on a phone mentions? I recall this bothering me with the FNAF4 TV thing which established a year. Its meant to establish the game took place in 1983, but... if you really saw a program that gave an exact year like that, it would likely be a documentary retrospective on the franchise. When I watched He-Man as a kid, I don't recall it ever flashing a big screen that said "He-Man 1983." And yes, I understand that you sometimes have to make concessions for the sake of a game... the problem is that all the "Evidence" FNAF delivers is stuff that really should not work or make a lick of sense. In essence, if this were a courtroom, debunking all of it would be Phoenix Wright's easiest courtroom victory ever.

[@pizzweak580]

It's always good to see videos like these, I've seen the fnaf videos of old and as the years went by, fnaf got more confusing. I'm grateful to see someone make good fnaf videos in this day, it's always a breath of fresh air

[@BluePhoenix_]

The only two pieces of data, that even could indicate that she could come back are: 1. Her eyes in the blob aren't glowing 2. Plush babies seem to be supernaturally influenced And that's not really enough.

[@ssomenerdd]

Fnaf theorists : fnaf story should go into a new direction with new characters Also fnaf theorists : CHARLIE IS BACK, CRYING CHILD IS BACK, MIKE IS BACK, ELIZABETH IS BACK!!! (oh and also henry is there some where)

[@latlequin1]

Okay but like there HAS to be something going on with Nightmarrione. Like why would they keep shoving Nightmarrione references down our throats if they're not gonna do anything with that?

[@AceGoldfish]

This so desperately needed to be said, also great video.

[@waddlehi]

IDK why the fact that you started with a flashlight in the background footage is so funny to me. The fact nobody is surprised that you casually start with an item you aren't supposed to have is just emblematic of the spaghetti code in security breach.

[@thecatsareinmywalls]

Theorists really just looked at Help Wanted essentially saying all games before it are a separate canon and just said NUH UH and decided to ruin a finished story by trying to shove it into a new one

[@MrSpartan993]

Lookin’ at YOU Matpat.

[@syweb2]

@@MrSpartan993 I mean, Security Breach did that for us, thanks to it having the Pizza Sim location down in the sinkhole. Pizza sim is entirely dependent on the previous games having taken place, so SB's inclusion of the Pizza Sim location has brought all previous games into the Help Wanted continuity. It's not Matpat's fault for pointing out the obvious, he's just he messenger.

[@higueraft571]

Gotta disagree, even looking at it WITHOUT considering any previous lore, it doesnt add up. Not to mention, i doubt EVERYTHING in our games are as in the setting's games... Although, even the phrasing of that specific line is... STRANGE. So it states that Faz Ent hired a developer to make the games we played, to cover up what actually happened, right? So why are the VR games being made, again? >and decided to ruin a finished story FNAF 6 100% wasnt a "Finished story", no matter how you look at it. It didnt wrap much up, it raised a billion other questions, and the only REAL "finality" was Henry's speech (Which WAS sick as fuck, i will agree). What's with Gfreddy? The Shadows? The DCI? CC? Who is Michael, really? What the fuck is Midnight Motorist? Who's Henry? etc Hell, people are bitching about how you "Need" the books to understand Ruin (you dont), but why does nobody complain about HENRY being exactly that? He's Some Guy who appears, who seems to know William personally/was the father of one of the Victims. Who's been somewhere for... 35+ years, doing fuckall? This, of course, ignores the fact that his Plan was terrible and has piles of evidence for why it cant work, alongside generally having a "Flawed perspective" :V Infact, HW didnt "ruin" it, UCN did. One detail i've noticed that seems to be an Unspoken "Rule": No Afterlife interaction. EVERYTHING we see is in the World of the Living, even if it's in separate little corners of it... (eg FNAF World, UCN, FNAF 4, etc) THE closest we've *ever* come to touching it was in the Stitchwraith Stingers, where one of the characters Passed On. Yet when one DID, they completely vanished from the Plot, they lost all Relevance going forward.

[@ashuraomega1000]

​@@higueraft571the reason help wanted was created in the first place was because Fazbear entertainment wanted to make a parody game to cover up the events of the previous games but they ended up scanning the code of William's remnant which ended up creating glitchtrap. Don't know how people miss this obvious plot point.

[@britanimations2002]

Thank you, I'm sure I have a lot more thoughts on the problems with theorising these days, but you do hit the nail on the head in a lot of aspects. My big question is, what are we even theorising about anymore? Because personally with the exception of certain pieces of information at this point I think we've nailed fnaf 1-ucn. Maybe some combination of MatPat's final Sister Location theory and his final UCN theory to get the final answer to close the book on the original story. It's the theorists though that keep bringing it back, not necessarily Steel Wool, (though they get the blame for Afton and old Blobo) like the theory of the rebuilt Afton family being in Security Breach, and I don't even need to mention the books which should largely be left out of the conversation but also act as the biggest contributor to contradicting what has been well established about the old story over and over again, and it's just too much.

[@jeremygaming2287]

FNaF theorizing has become so infuriating because big theorist cannot accept Tales as canon. We got an explanation on what the mimic and yet some believe it's parallels and that it's somehow Charlie and Elizabeth combined like how did you come to that conclusion when Tales shows you what the mimic is, it's origin and what it's capable of.

[@higueraft571]

>because big theorist cannot accept Tales as canon. Simple reason, it isnt consistent with the Canon. It's FAR simpler to treat it as an alt-timeline like the other books, that share the same universe's mechanics. If it's MEANT to be the same Timeline, then it's fucking up as hard as the Character Encyclopedia. Like how Mimic turned into an Ennard-like spider with a Proboscis/limb coming out it's neck...

[@owenrobotboy]

​@@higueraft571it can be an alt timeline while still giving us an in-canon explanation. Literally just do what we did with frights and swap the names around, great. Now it's the canon.

[@higueraft571]

@@owenrobotboy >it can be an alt timeline while still giving us an in-canon explanation. Like.... you know, how it was put before? Same Universe, Different Timeline.

[@higueraft571]

@@theihalvesxd721 >The Mimic turning into a spider is the only big problem. It's ONE problem. >and instead come up with the most bizarre CharlieBotBabyHenry type theory. Where the fuck did you pull that out your ass. Quite simply: We dont know where the Mimic came from, it's POSSIBLE it's something Wacky like that, but it's more likely *we simply dont know jack shit.* Remember how we all thought William was Phone Guy or Mike Schmidt? There was also that theory the Mimic (wearing Kelly's Corpse, which seems to have practically vanished) would've been roasted or something at the end of the Epilogues, somehow leading into Burntrap... I HEAVILY disagree Mimic is straight up Burntrap, but people thought that. Turns out the ending was nothing like that :V There's also the jump of "How do you go from Deactivated Mimic to Ruin", too.

[@owaem6777]

THIS, THIS VID RIGHT HERE. This video is what every single theorist needs to watch right now, you nailed it on the head Dmuted, well done 👌👌👌

[@CougarLeonII]

So like MatPat is poopy... DAMMIT. I BROKE THE "DON'T INSULT ANYONE" RULE.

[@deadclicks]

FNAF 4 adding the potential for a "bite of '83" to have happened did irreparable damage to the series as a whole. Nothing can be interpreted as is anymore. The headless Freddy w/ the word "PROTOTYPE" plastered on its foot HAS to be Security Breach Freddy because they both have a gift in their chest. Nevermind that Security Breach Freddy never had the prototype print on release, and still doesn't after the RUIN update.

[@soirema]

I hope this blows up LOOL awesome video

[@immortalkoopah3138]

honestly I just wanna see a theory talking about WHEN the mimic got trapped under the pizzaplex basement

[@higueraft571]

Admittedly, even WITH using the books, we dont have a solid answer to that? And without it, we only really know he's been down there for "a long time", and that the Mimic is certainly an Older sort. Kind of a "wait and see" case ngl

[@El_Hornio_II]

When it first started fnaf story theorising wasnt too bad, just people trying to piece together the games as they came out, 1-4, simple as that, but then Scott made Sister Location and that right there is what I believe to be the beginning of the end when it came to comprehensible lore for fnaf, i recently re-watched Matpats "final" fnaf theory back during the days of fnaf 1-4 and the theory that everything was just a massive fever dream of the crying child due to getting an involuntary lobotomy wasnt too incomprehensible, i actually understood both the lore implications and the thought process of Scott and his reasoning to keep the box shut on what the true answer to everything was, but now i lost track of the lore long ago, every new game just drop kicks what ramshackle foundation of the lore that the community tries to piece together and every time the community tries to piece it together, again and again and again, it just doesn't end

[@Chaotic_Overlord]

Honestly (and this just might be me) but I think a lot of modern theories fit in to the category of:"I solved [BLANK]" and then they just pull stuff from the modern games that never existed back when that game 1st released. (sometimes it can also go the other way around, where they use some stuff from 2015 games, to solve the game released in 2023) I don't think you can't use stuff from previous games, but I feel like there should be either a TON of evidence or the game should directly indicate a connection between current and past events, a good chunk of theories I feel kind of miss that; yeah it's possible that this current event could have some form of connection to this past event; but why would they want us to connect stuff from (let's say) fnaf 2 to fnaf sb, if security breach doesn't have anything that references that stuff from fnaf 2? I know this one is a pretty extreme example, but isn't it crazy how matpat's timeline theory had the timeline start in a part of the story that we never heard of before, decades before when we thought it started, all cause of a single poster...

[@Chaotic_Overlord]

As for the nightmarione theory; I personally like It; It Is pretty paranormal and doesn't really fit with what most of fnaf is about, but honestly, if steelwool were to actually do something along the lines of that, I'd think It be cool. (If a bit out of place) My only issue with that, is that It's insanely hard to have Nightmarione be a villain; Steelwool would have to go like:"Yeah, you know that reskin for Nightmare which was in a non canon halloween update and that never had any sort of major role? Welp, they're your new villain, enjoy." (Also I refuse to believe that the halloween DLC characters are Canon, cause that means William must have created robots that look like jack o laterns or illusion discs that make them look like jack o lanterns; and I personally refuse to believe that

[@Lizzy_Fungy]

One helpwanted2 jumpscare has to be hippo, who explains the whole fnaf lore to you, ai generated by mixing all theories people have together.

[@gaminganimators7000]

I get what you're saying and mostly agree but if we're not meant to look into things, why are these specific details placed here? Why specifically have Nightmarionne plushies and not any other plushies? Why have the Mimic have one hand be Burntraps and the other not? Why have vanishing circus baby plushies, the scooper, a circus elephant, similarities to the Charlie Trilogy and so many other odd things that seemingly point to Circus Baby if she's not important? Is it just purposeful misdirection? Is it throwing ideas out and seeing what people like because that definitely worked out well last time? Why is Scott and Steelwool doing this is my biggest question if none of these things matter?

[@gaminganimators7000]

Note:I meant why have Nightmarionne plushies hidden around all over the pizzaplex and return in Ruin?

[@finebook281]

The issue with those videos and this video as well is that the story simply doesn't make sense. It wasn't constructed in a way that makes sense and is full of contradictions. That said, you did the same leaps in logic and assumptions that you are complaining about, assuming that the Tales From the Pizzaplex books are 100% in the same world as Security Breach and Ruin despite so much evidence to the contrary, and assuming that the abundance of Nightmare Puppet imagery in Security Breach is meaningless. The truth is, there is not much communication between Scott Cawthon, Steel Wool, and the writers of the books, and after every game except maybe 2 and 3, a completely new direction for the story has been decided on, leading to a subsequent game to make no sense with the game before it and contradict everything that came before it. FNAF 1 and 2 don't make sense together. Sister Location and 1, 2, 3, and 4 don't make sense together. Pizzeria Simulator and Sister Location don't make sense together. Help Wanted straight up says that everything before it is no longer canon. Security Breach goes a completely different direction from Help Wanted and makes Pizzeria Simulator canon again. Ruin again says that half of Security Breach is fake and that the Mimic has always existed while also making it clearly different from the Mimic in Tales. It simply doesn't make sense. There is no consistency and coherency and that's why "theorists" have to make up fanfiction in order to tie all of the stories together.

[@adriankuban2904]

We all know MatPat from Game theory and John from FunNaff this two are mostly closer. But we also know ​Scott himself, even though he publishes more books and more games are coming out, like many other authors and creators of franchises, sagas and series. Leave it a mystery and that's good because they want to keep it for us. To try to solve it using our own imagination, theory, ideas and come up with our own Head Canon.

[@KiiBon]

**eye twitching with a conspiracy theory board connected with red string behind me** It is that deep man

[@DZ_97]

i absolutely love and agree with this, why cant we jus have new characters and not old ones returning, and i get burntrap is William but he never existed according to ruin so we dont need to worry meaning we have no old characters there to prove that they are actually there

[@higueraft571]

>but he never existed according to ruin Source?

[@Idfkidc-p2o]

Because when we go down there in ruin there is no damage unlike the burntrap ending

[@higueraft571]

@@Idfkidc-p2o ...and why does the ending not happening mean that Burntrap suddenly stopped existing, even though he was drawing massive amounts of power *prior* to 6AM? The only reason at all why Blob *isnt* considered Non-canon is the fact they make a VERY brief unimportant cameo in Ruin that does nothing except confirm "i still exist".

[@Idfkidc-p2o]

@@higueraft571 we don't even see him in the recharge station

[@higueraft571]

@@Idfkidc-p2o And? We dont see Blob down there AT ALL either. It's been at least Months since SB, there's several likely reasons why we never see him, where he'd still exist. - Eaten By Blob (still) - Peaced Out while the Blob was asleep/after it dug out - Trapped under Rubble in Greggory's side - Literally somewhere else underground First two though are the most likely, especially since we never saw the Blob's full body, only the "Head". Infact, why IS there a Charging Station for someone who doesnt exist too? What was drawing all that power before 6 AM?

[@blanktester]

I don't always agree with you, DMuted, but god DAMN are you on fire here. Theorizing is interesting when we're figuring out the story, and character interpretation can be interesting too (like viewing Nightmarionne as a representation of death), that's just literary analysis. People complain that English teachers will stretch the metatextual meaning of blue curtains, but sometimes FNAF theorizing feels like they're saying that blue curtains means that half of the rest of the story is a big lie on the player. I might have pushed the metaphor a bit.

[@reececonnor526]

I feel every Fnaf theorist should make a video like this and try to make there theory’s less complex because it really is getting out of control

[@quilltedtulip]

I started noticing this more after Ruin, when there were theories taking other theories as the canon and using it as a basis for proving their theory. I saw one talking about Cassie's dad and how it "had to be Michael" because he was "every games protag just under a different name" which was a really old theory made but treated as cannon (the guy literally went "we all know he was the protag in all the games" which made me double take and took me out of the theory) and using easter eggs as proof. It's a similar issue I have with things like the Monty destroying Bonnie theory being treated as 100% canon when really- nothings been confirmed and even in SB nothing was 100% proof that the theory was actually possible to be canon and I think thats been a problem with the FNAF community and theories in a whole, so many have been treated as canon now especially with how old the franchise is now and with Scott admitting in the past to changing the games story on the fly if someone's theory got too close it really dampers my own enjoyment of the theory side of FNAF

[@prismavoid3764]

So glad to see someone talk about this line of thinking and why it sucks so much. Beyond the obviousness of the FNAF series being so huge and cryptic that putting any lore together is nearly impossible now, it feels like so many theorists focus extremely hard on what they think WOULD be a cool story, vs what the games are actually showing. Yeah, it WOULD be cool if Baby came back and we got to see her again (especially if she got a better sendoff than Pizza Simulator, which really wasn't a great showing of her character), but nothing hints at that beyond a few tiny bits of iconography that probably mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

[@princelandrycrusher]

This whole video can be summed up as MatPat and FuhNaff are wrong and here's why. :p No hate towards those two. :3

[@Nacho2003YT]

This really sums up much of my complaints about current FNAF theories. Specially the books question and all this thing with The Mimic

[@DiamondBatToons]

You took the words right out of my mouth. It's obvious that FNaF theorizing is far from what it used to be.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Do I have to remind you a Animatronics being created by Nazis theory or Animatronics being demons in the flesh posing as animatronics? Fnaf theorizing never been based on the Canon events that were on newspapers and more on the very weird ideas someone had like foxy being a good guy or 2 killers going rampant in the faz ent. establishment despite having no evidence for those.

[@aluno1000xawesome]

my theory about the nightmarrione plushes is that they're just merch for help wanted

[@rustyvull-i68]

The moment someone says that Vanessa is the Adult Charlie bot but it doesn't look at all like Charlie but instead like Elizabeth because “IS FOURTH CLOSED ALL OVER AGAIN AFTER YEARS 🤯🤯🤯🤯!!!!” is when you know is, being generous, a mess...

[@Pumpkinsmasherok]

But there's very clear parallels between sb and ruin and fnaf books

[@at_witts_end3470]

My Nightmarionne theory is that its meant to fuck with Jeremy. Mimic HATES Jeremy.

[@Echosinfireify]

Really funny to say there’s been no lead up to baby coming back in response to foreshadowing baby coming back.

[@theinfamousanonymous2652]

Honestly i was happy about the Mimic being a new character being introduced as the brand new protagonist, it felt fresh and exciting. But seeing people theorise that it's Charlie and/or Baby is genuily diseapointing and i really hope that the story doesn't go in this direction. I mean, Burntrap exitence was literally retconned because people were annoyed to see William again! So why people are pushing for the same mistake to be reapeated?!

[@ikaiju-eu9wn]

no, mimic was planned since hw, burntrap was never retconned

[@higueraft571]

>Burntrap exitence was literally retconned because people were annoyed to see William again! Never retconned. Burntrap's situaition is simply unknown/left ambiguous at the moment. Dont get why EVERYONE decided he didnt exist ever??

[@ginnogianni1980]

@@ikaiju-eu9wn it was, burntrap and mimic have totally different models lol

[@ikaiju-eu9wn]

@@ginnogianni1980 i see you don't know what retcon means

[@ashuraomega1000]

​@@ikaiju-eu9wnI think what he means is that they probably planned for the burntrap ending to be the original ending to the game but changed it.

[@skycreeper0173]

Super awesome video. I really enjoyed it, and I hope we can start making less far fetched theories and more logical and believable theories.

[@Haley_Halo]

10:47 Thank you, this bothered me so much. This video is cathartic with all the madness😌

[@nuelheart5251]

Personally I think a part of this is on the audience and another is on the developer, cause as partly said in this video Scott kept making sequels because he wanted to improve on what people were critical about with the last game, and personally I believe that Scott could have does this but not with FNAF. Instead he could have made a new game/series where he could use that knowledge to develop on but I do understand why he kept on with FNAF. It's just unfortunate that the series has become what it is because it had a simple and effective story up to 3; then 4 came up to muddy the water that is the timeline. What Scott did with the second bite just felt unneeded while making the bite of 87 feel less significant personally due to there being another bite. It feel like there's this need to keep theorists on their toes in mascot horror that turns me off from it because why alter what you have to keep making mysteries? I believe a horror game is best when you understand the main events but there are these small crumbs that you could think about that have many possibilities, an example of this is which ending to Silent Hill 2 do you believe is the best?

[@MrVreyes20]

Finally have a name for my least favorite thing theorist have been doing for a while, theory cannibalism has been a plague in the thoerist community. Its forcing everyone to acknowledge/accept a theory (whether they agree or disagree with it) as fact then expecting everyone to go with it when its brought back for a different theory. I dont think its what they intended but to me it reeks of an ego trip. Another aggravating thing that ive seen happen in the theory community is a 2 for 1 theory special. Idk if they are trying to play the KZbin algorithm by strching a theory video to 20 minutes but the last few Fnaf theory videos started off with a reasonable or inoffensive theory and then at the halfway mark we get hit a whiplash cuz they brought out a second and downright terrible theory that for whatever reason has to find a way to tie into the previous theory thus ruining both theories.

[@BB-oo5ws]

The "Blue eyes representing Charlie vs Green eyes representing Elizabeth" makes as much sense as me saying that Tiger rock is a reference to David Bowie because Bowie had two different colored eyes (one definitely blue and the other green in certain lighting) and because they both are Glam Rockers. But who's me to judge.

[@wsurviver8376]

I just clicked on this video from another claiming that Deltarune was a retelling of an episode of the twilight zone that preticted the next secret boss and then really early in the video they made that startreck episode joke with secerity breach and I think that it’s just funny that the joke they made was like everything in it was sorta just so close to the last video I watched but not quite the same

[@Quonzer]

Remember when this was just a simple indie horror game? There was no cringy fandom, no merch, no reams of lore to dive through, no drama, no apology videos, no fuss. Is it really so bad to just enjoy a game and to leave it be?

[@NotAYoshi]

Foxy's left cheek is clearly related to how Afton did that one thing back in 5 B.C. smh

[@rewskiem5700]

This is one of the reasons I've started to enjoy watching Zelda theories more lately. With fnaf, everyone always makes their theory with the assumption that there is an actual "right" answer to be found. But most Zelda theories are just "these two things from two different games are oddly similar, lets see if we can find/make some more cool connections between them.

[@chaosfox8832]

Theorizing worked better when theorists weren't left high and dry for years spinning their wheels with no new information. It was exciting to watch FNAF theories back in the 1-4 era for me, because we'd get theories, a new game would come out with new information, theories would adjust, etc. Unresolved plotlines (/contended theories) are just left dangling for so long that it's hard to maintain any interest in them. Almost 6 years and we still don't have concrete answers on midnight motorist, and frankly after ONE year of nothing it turned into "meh, whatever" for me. I also don't like how the books are basically required reading for understanding the games these days either. Using book information to support theories about the games is fine, but the games should also contain enough information to get you there. Like there's endos all over the place, but THAT one is endo-Satan for .... reasons.

[@higueraft571]

>Almost 6 years and we still don't have concrete answers on midnight motorist Hell, we dont even know about the "DCI" yet, that's STILL unresolved, if it even exists anymore...

[@superlemonslicer1224]

​@@higueraft571the DCI just feels like a plot hole, like they WERE meant to be the MCI and their were either retconned in or a few fnaf 1 mini games were retconned out

[@higueraft571]

@@superlemonslicer1224 Yeah, hence the "if it even exists anymore", it pretty much *is* a plot hole/massive loose thread :V

[@SCP-469]

@@superlemonslicer1224But the thing is they weren’t cause Freddy is clearly possessed by that time, they are most likely just plot devices to make FNAF II exist

[@bunsenn5064]

I think in Fnaf, there are a lot of details there that are just meant to serve as symbolism, but due to the sheer depth of theorizing that goes on in the series, people take those things as literal on more often of an occasion than intended.

[@UnovaPkmnEnjoyer]

I really hope we get a GTlive video of Matpat watching this lmao

[@dmuted]

I would find that funny, lmao

[@pokestyn]

This video honestly puts into words the problem in a way I wasn’t sure how to express. It perfectly explains the issue

[@lancerguy3667]

I think the moment I realized any theorizing was overthinking was in FNAF 4, when Scott pulled that mystery box trick. Showed the audience a box with locks…. Only for it to be revealed that there was nothing there, and never had been. Unraveling a fictional mystery can be fun, but it only works if the writer can convince his audience that there are clues to be found, and a story intended… with no answers, there isn’t really a mystery, just an empty hole. That box was the moment I realized, “oh, yeah… he’s definitely making all of this up as he goes along, and has nothing planned. No point in trying to figure anything out, I’ll just go with the flow.”

[@24Ippo]

About Baby's location seems to be more complicated than usual because we only have hints so far (i do have a theory about it but its far fetch and the evidence doesn't support it) and also yes some theories seem to go further from the actual lore, that being said, I've seen many theorist with almost no ability to theorize and yet they gather good information just not in right direction. but i guess it's up to us to find the right combination

[@quetzal6293]

this video is very cathartic. see, so many people in this fanbase are on youtube and nowhere else, so they dont usually hear arguments against these stretchy-like-gum theories, but now they can good video

[@chrisrodriguez1308]

To add to this. I honestly believe People put to much Stock/think too hard about what Help wanted said about the Games being Games in Universe. I feel like that's Just Fazbear Co Trying to save face

[@J_lihan]

I recently discovered your channel a couple days ago. I love the style of it! Keep up the good content! 🎉🎉

[@Toffensky]

WHY is Mr. Hippo knew what will happen to the theorists community? Is he a future ghost of Elizabeth comming back in time to warn us about her comming back becouse of the theories or is it Charlie after becoming The Mimic amalgom when she ate the blob?

[@soleacorn1605]

Just from the thumbnail alone, I completely agree

[@aluno1000xawesome]

i saw a theory about the mimic being the puppet's endo

[@FunWare.mp4]

quck note: How could night marionette be back?!?!?. The fnaf 4 Halloween update is not canon, meaning that night marionette is a fictional character in canon because of the soft reboot. he cant be a person or real.

[@Viichan777]

Watch lol help wanted 2 is gonna tell us the mimic is baby, it never had possessed Elizabeth, afton thought she had possessed the machine, but he was wrong. Henry suspected it wasnt her, but brought her into pizza sim just in case it was. The blob threw it deeper underground and cassie's dad made MXES to stop it from returning. Also burntrap is real.

[@BunBit_]

Assuming HW2 is gonna be about FNAF SL is like assuming HW was gonna be about FNAF 1 from the marketing lol

[@Viichan777]

@BunBit_ I'm only joking with this post, but help wanted was mainly about the first 3 games and bringing back afton. The other stuff was mainly bonus mini games. I'm assuming this one is gonna reveal some stuff from 4-6 to add to their next game. Still wonder about that weird bonnie in funtime foxy was about though

[@BunBit_]

@@Viichan777 "bringing back afton". Hah. Yeah. "Afton".

[@Phantasy111]

Am pretty sure that even scott doesnt know the lore…he just does this and this…and then call it for the day And let peopple decide what’s the lore cuz he knows we’re gonna overthink everything now 💀

[@chair448]

5:40 to be fair, she is in the blob as well as referenced by the staff bots who are dressed as her. Fazbear entertainment still uses her likeness with some of their designs so she isn't completely absent. Besides that though, I feel your points around the 7 minute mark about stuff just being "not that deep" are kind of ridiculous. Why is it that only certain information, like lines about something obscure in a spinoff book series are important, but objects intentionally placed into the GAMES are seen as unimportant and are waved away? Is that not just picking and choosing what evidence you want to consider? I dont think the "problem" with modern theories is people over thinking them, I think the problem is people suddenly feeling the need for EVERY theory to follow the same line of thinking. Without new ideas in the mix, how are theories supposed to evolve and new ideas be considered? Why is it that the people who read the books, a small percentage of the fanbase, get to choose what theories are good or bad? What made the older theories enjoyable was that it felt like anyone could come to their own conclusions and discover something when consuming the series. Now its become "actually your interpretation is wrong because in tales from the pizzaplex book 5 page 152 it says "______". You're spreading misinformation". The theory community actively discourages theorizing, and coming up with new ideas. You either take the word of those who have read the books as law, or you're ridiculed for seeing the bear game in the different light. Its dumb. Who cares if theyre wrong, its a series that most people get enjoyment from for different reasons, and isnt very well written. Why does it matter if people paint a new perspective and people enjoy it?

[@lorisidirgiichi4056]

Mr.Hippo definitely said it best. A story is JUST a story. Not every problem or theory can be truly solved. Trying to find answers or any clues to try and and disprove or prove that the books are canon or to explain why Elizabeth and Charlie are every single character and the main villain in FNAF 6854 guest staring the Mimic is enough to make you sound crazy. Like there is people, including myself not wanting to dabbling with Books to interfere with experiencing the main game theories and trying to learn the Fazbear Universe, and it's a understandable feeling since reading books can feel like homework and you're being punished for not knowing outside information and resort to people talking about book script leaks and such. And that's the problem.. There's TOO much information to go off from. There is things that Scott DOES explain that is easy to follow, yet everyone overcomplicates things, it almost feels like I'm in a r/BatmanArkham subreddit with these nonsensical theories. Who knows what theories could come next after Help Wanted 2 and such. I'm just here along for the FNAF ride until the day the franchise dies.

[@dieselexkore2063]

Scott uses new games to clarify things in the old games. I think he used security breach to clarify that all of the events we have played through in games one through six are exactly Cannon. And that the games that were stated to be made we’re just other games. Like in one of the book it is stated that fnaf four, in universe, was never finished.

[@themuffinman4680]

I think a big reason a lot of people are convinced Baby is coming back is because of the Fazbear Frights books having a character very clearly supposed to have similarities to Baby having a big role appearing in more than one of the stories being the big bad in the end or whatever. Help wanted 2 also shows the sister location elevator which prob means we are gonna see the funtime animatronics including Baby. Also smth talking abt hinting at a 'carnival' could also count as a reason some ppl think she's coming back cause clown in carnival so obviously she big bad. Idk it's hard to know if they are gonna use characters from the past or not and Elizabeth is the only real past character who would have a reason to wanna help William. The nightmarrion thing like I get why they come to the conclusion but I don't think there's much to support it.

[@sk33b07]

The mimic is definitely supposed to be similar to Elizabeth but it isnt her

[@Jam-og1km]

Plus people can be biased based on what they WANT to happen rather than what's actually believable

[@thisnameanothername2156]

While I do still believe that nightmarion/nightmare will probably gain some relevance to the story. This is a great video on the state of fnaf theorising

[@IamhereIguess]

Fnaf is basically if Breaking bad and DOAI had a deranged radioactive drunk mommy baby man child that lived in the middle of a black hole who is aslo the MIMIC in a fury costume thats reads spiderman NSFW comics

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

The books have so many contradictions from main cannon, I can believe that Edwin exists in the games time line and that he made the mimic but his story is not the ones we see in the books, it could be similar to thoses events but its not the same.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

Why not? What are some of those contradictions with the Tales books?

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

@@fnaffoxy1987 small things hear and there like the Mr hippo fridge magnet or chicas color and one big thing being that the mimic is stated to be glam Bonnie in the books.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

@@TiredMoonRabbit I've read the Tales books and Glamrock Bonnie isn't mentioned. You'll need to elaborate on the magnet and chica's color because I still don't understand

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

@@fnaffoxy1987 when the mimic is introduced in the epilogues one of the construction guys makes a joke saying "they are going to need a new base guitarist" which is a reference to glam Bonnie and a explanation for why he's not in SB but we see him in ruin meaning there not the same even though they imply in that book that they are. With the fridge magnet, in one of the books it states that the Mr Hippo magnet was discontinued and got rid of but that clearly isn't the case either. And in one of the books glam chica is said to be yellow, I don't think I need to point out what's wrong with that. The games in future are most certainly going to do their own thing and ignore most of the book stuff or retell those stories in a different way which is why I don't think it's the same continuity.

[@fnaffoxy1987]

@@TiredMoonRabbit The quote is "they're going to need a new guitarist", Bonnie and Monty play bass not guitar. Chica plays electric guitar. Also, the Mr Hippo magnets were said to have been recalled, not discontinued. The same story has Abe find a glamrock chica in the sewer, but there's only one glamrock chica in the games and she's not down there. The small details like this don't change anything. Calling chica yellow was a mistake, simple as that. It's not lore relevant. These things don't alter the books canonicity.

[@DeltaTheToon]

We share the same frustrations! This is why I look into my own things.