Do Catholics REALLY "Worship" Mary w/ Fr. Gregory Pine O.P.

[@joshi_angelo]

Based Fr. Pine

[@jonasknox4368]

Based @joshi_angelo

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

based @@jonasknox4368

[@joshfouch420]

based @@Peaceful_Gojira

[@boejiden6525]

based @@joshfouch420

[@tronaldsdump631]

based @@joshfouch420

[@sentjojo]

It took me over a year to piece together what Fr. Pine did here in less than five mins

[@melissawilcox5285]

Thank you for this one! My in-laws say I’m going to hell because I’m Catholic and this is always the excuse they give. Thank you for giving me the ability to counter their accusations with facts!

[@xrendezv0usx]

Bowing down to images is not going to make you lose your salvation. But it is an abomination to the Lord, and every time you bow down to an image instead of God it grieves the Holy Spirit.

[@AngelGonzalez-ng9ve]

DeaR Lord hve Mercy. 🤣🤦🏻‍♂️ it's WAYYYYYYYYY DEEPER than that. We don't bow down to the image itself. We only bow down to GOD.. CHRIST AND HOLY SPIRITS. the image or Icon just shows us how DEEP OUR EARLY CHRISTIANS DIED FOR US TO DEFEND AND SPREAD THE LOVE OF CHRIST. AS WHEN WE SEE THE CRUXICTION IMAGE AND BOW. WE ARE ACTUALLY JUST BOWING TO THE LOVE AND MERCY JESUS GAVE US. AND AT THE SAME TIME JUST ADMIRING THE BEAUTY OF THE IMAGE. ITS JUST ART. LOOK AT THE EARLY HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY. ALLLLL THE EARLY TRUE CHURCHES HAD IMAGES AND ART. COME ON... STUDY A LIL EARLY CHRISTIAN HISTORY. 🫶🏻🙏🏻📖🍷🍞⛪️🕊✝️🫡

[@MonarchPoolPlaster]

That's a terrible thing for your in-laws to say.

[@brendanflynn5004]

I like to explain it like this: “Does Jesus obey His Commandments? Does He NOT Honor His Father AND Mother? Are we not called to follow Christ & be Christ-like?”

[@jamesjacob4002]

@@xrendezv0usxIf that’s the case, then you are going to have to explain to me why the Israelites bowed to the Ark of the Covenant with images of angels. Why did God accept that worship, when according to you, God finds that to be an abomination.

[@mariawells8026]

This was an excellent explanation Father Pine.

[@superdavidss]

Our Lady is the Speculus Iusticiae, the Mirror of Justice. The light of God is reflected on her so we can understand Him better. Paraphrasing Fr. Chad Ripperger

[@sandstorm7768]

Everything about Mary is because of God, for God, and points to God ❤

[@ozymandias5257]

A necessary, relevant discussion of these matters. Thanks Matt Fradd & Fr Pine.

[@nightyew2160]

Thanks for talking about this, Fr. Pine. I have been thinking about this very topic lately. I think the confusion is that worship and pray can have different meanings in different contexts. I think it is like the word love. When I say I love pizza, I mean I find it to be a delicious treat. When I say I love my son, I mean much more than that. I love your point that because Protestants lack Eucharistic worship, the highest peak of worship available to Catholics is missing from their experience.

[@johnnysupreme5718]

You love your son; do you pray to your son, too? And Jesus never said anything about repeating the last supper. Both worshipping Mary and Eucharistic worship are things the church have added into Christianity in an attempt to supersede the Bible and Christ. You are saved by accepting Jesus' sacrifice and repenting for your sins. Not by a ritual and not by worshipping false idols.

[@LaserFace23]

Here's a nerdy comparison, but when I re-read Fellowship of the Ring recently, I found Gimli's attitude towards Galadriel to be very relatable to a lot of converts' attitudes towards Mary; He starts out thinking she's some witch, an abominable thing that snares innocent victims into worshipping her, a distraction off the straight and narrow path. But then he meets her, and sees what she really is, and he finally "gets it". The stories were half-true -- he DID get bewitched, he fell in love with true beauty, and those who fall in love with beauty can only honor the one who created that beauty all the more as they praise her. And from there on, he becomes her unlikely champion, defending and loving her, because he knows how bad his misconceptions were before, and only wants others to understand the beauty he's been honored to witness. Or maybe I'm just pulling a self-insert here, that's definitely how it was for me, haha

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

Lol, not at all. In fact, recall what she gives Gimli? 3 strands of her hair...Gimli only asked for 1. Ah, Mary Mother of Mercy: pray for us!

[@LaserFace23]

@@Peaceful_Gojira So true! Reminds me of her appearance on the Miraculous Medal: "Mother, why are there gaps in the rays of light coming from your rings?" "These are the graces that are available but which nobody asks for." She always gives so much more than we ever even imagined to ask for.

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

@@LaserFace23 All because God hid her from the world, and even being brought to the forefront in these apparitions, She STILL does not call Herself who She REALLY is. Ah, so lovely is Our Lady and Mother of God. And all the more: God is so awesome.

[@judgedredd31]

I’ve yet to meet a Protestant who has anything negative to say about Mary, but I’ve spoken to countless Catholics who believe the Protestants have any sort of ill-will towards Mary. So I guess your analogy is lost on me.

[@frerfresh8373]

Love this, thank you!

[@lilheven1238]

Right at 6:10, I can't tell you how many times I have to discourage exactly that. I know so many Catholics that attribute so many things of their faith and salvation to Mary. When I hear them talk about Christianity, I barely even hear the word Jesus. I like Bishop Strickland's approach. Let's put Jesus more in everything including our language.

[@anng.4542]

And when we do talk about Jesus, Protestants still bash us because we're not expressing Protestant thoughts.

[@sophiajohnson8608]

We need not cater to Protestants. If we wish to make our holy Faith attractive to them, we need only to present it as it is. As St. Bernard of Clairvaux used to say, "De Mariam numquam satis," or, "of Mary there is never enough." St. Louis de Montfort later wrote in "True Devotion to Mary," that it is impossible to praise or reverence Our Lady too much. He argued that it is humbler to approach her than to call upon God directly, for she is the Moon, and she tempers the Sun's rays for us. St. Louis de Montfort even went as far as to suggest, with the full approval of Holy Mother Church, that devotion to Our Lady is necessary for salvation. He did not mean this in the absolute sense, for God certainly could save us without His Mother's help if He so chose. Still, this is not what He has ordained. St. Louis writes, "We must conclude that, being necessary to God by a necessity which is called 'hypothetical', (that is, because God so willed it), the Blessed Virgin is all the more necessary for men to attain their final end. Consequently we must not place devotion to her on the same level as devotion to the other saints as if it were merely something optional." Your comment supposes that there is a degree of contradiction, however slight, between honor of Our Lady and of Our Lord Jesus Christ. This is false. With other creatures, even spouses, children, or other loved ones, it is true that excessive attachment may lead one away from Christ. Still, Our Lady is not like anyone else. In "The Secret of Mary," de Montfort wrote, "Let us not imagine, then, as some misguided teachers do, that Mary being simply a creature would be a hindrance to union with the Creator. Far from it, for it is no longer Mary who lives but Jesus Christ himself, God alone, who lives in her. Her transformation into God far surpasses that experienced by St Paul and other saints, more than heaven surpasses the earth. Mary was created only for God, and it is unthinkable that she should reserve even one soul for herself. On the contrary she leads every soul to God and to union with him. Mary is the wonderful echo of God. The more a person joins himself to her, the more effectively she unites him to God. When we say 'Mary', she re-echoes 'God'." I would recommend St. Alphonsus Liguori's book, "The Glories of Mary," for an excellent treatise on devotion to the Blessed Mother. "Mystical City of God" by Venerable Mary of Agreda is also very helpful. To conclude, here is another (rather long) quote from True Devotion to Mary: "I am speaking of Catholics, and even of educated Catholics, who profess to teach the faith to others but do not know you or your Mother except speculatively, in a dry, cold and sterile way. These people seldom speak of your Mother or devotion to her. They say they are afraid that devotion to her will be abused and that you will be offended by excessive honour paid to her. They protest loudly when they see or hear a devout servant of Mary speak frequently with feeling, conviction and vigour of devotion to her. When he speaks of devotion to her as a sure means of finding and loving you without fear or illusion, or when he says this devotion is a short road free from danger, or an immaculate way free from imperfection, or a wondrous secret of finding you, they put before him a thousand specious reasons to show him how wrong he is to speak so much of Mary. There are, they say, great abuses in this devotion which we should try to stamp out and we should refer people to you rather than exhort them to have devotion to your Mother, whom they already love adequately."

[@KnightsofOurLadyofSorrows]

Our Lord Jesus would never be discouraged or "worried" about us loving Mary or talking about her all the time, because He gave her to us as a perfect gift. When we ignore Mary and do not treat her as our Mother that's when Jesus becomes sad. If you want to love Jesus more than love His greatest gift He gave us, Mary, the Immaculata!

[@jonasknox4368]

@sophiajohnson8608 thank you for defending Our Lady and devotion to her so well

[@heidigabalski6335]

@sophiajohnson You are right on! I finally stopped protesting and was confirmed at the Easter Vigil this year. I am 50 years old and have been a Christian since 1996. Everything protestants “protest about the Catholic Church are misunderstandings, which sadly are taught and promoted by so many Protestant pastors. It was seeing faithful, dedicated, passionate, and knowledgeable Catholic’s that God used to break through my stubborn heart. It has been a year of humble pie, and I could not be more grateful to be home 😇 Just shared the journey on quest for faith with Bryan if you’re interested kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmepn4mrjLOSrMk ❤

[@Jesusgirl00]

Fr. Pine explains very well in helping understand

[@huntsman528]

Well, at least he's honest about it. Most Catholics seem to dismiss this critique.

[@HumanDignity10]

That's a good point about Protestants removing the Eucharist, thus making it harder for them to distinguish between sacrifice and adoration versus veneration. It's been baffling to to me to hear Protestants say Catholics need to spend more time with Jesus, because I see the crucifix front and center at every Catholic Church, the stations of the cross at every Catholic Church, and the entire Mass centered around Him and all of us receiving Him at every Mass. Plus, all of the time spent with Him in adoration and seeking his forgiveness in the sacrament of reconciliation and doing penance. A lot of Protestant churches don't have any imagery of Jesus and don't receive Him in the Eucharist, nor do they offer adoration or the sacrament of reconciliation, so it makes sense that they would have a hard time distinguishing between veneration of Mary and the Saints versus sacrifice and adoration for God. It's also worth pointing out that the rosary is a tool for meditating of the mysteries of Jesus. While we are saying the prayers, which include the Our Father, O Dear Jesus, and Glory Be, along with the Hail Marys, we are contemplating different mysteries of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection. Even though there are a lot of Hail Mary prayers, the rosary is ultimately about Jesus.

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

It's all due to private interpretations being spread en-mass to the sheeple. Hence why +20,000 Prot denominations exist today, because someone decided to make a private interpretation, and make it a groupthink. It's a true tragedy to see, when all they need to do is open their hearts and minds MORE, and be receptive to learn and experience MORE than just singing hymns with their arms stretched out, saying "I love you Jesus!" Because if you truly love Jesus, if He came before thee and asked you to serve penance to His Holy Name, they would almost assuredly not do it, because they would either not understand why they need to do it, or would blatantly deny that it's Christ, because "I was redeemed at the Cross, Jesus...I am ALREADY saved!" Poor sods. Mary Mother of Mercy: pray for us! Be safe, fren. Pax Christi. Ave Maris Stella.

[@LaserFace23]

@UnimpressedGojira My heart breaks for many of these Protestants too, I've seen so many instances online of well-meaning Protestants saying things like "I live in a small town and the only church I can even consider going to just went woke, I don't know what to do." And all I can think is "well, there's ONE Church I know you're not considering, but you're not gonna like which one it is." And they don't like it, if someone does bring up converting, they just fall right back into the falsehoods they heard about Catholicism from the church they were previously attending, the one they now KNOW is teaching falsehoods. The wonderful thing about the Catholic Mass is that at the end of the day, even if the music sucks, even if the lectionaries stumble and bumble their way through the Scripture readings, and even if the priest gives a stupid boring homily riddled with errors (all three of these things are apparently "worshipping God" to the Protestsnt mindset, sadly, as this is all their church services really consist of once you throw out having a valid Eucharist), when that priest consecrates the host, well, THAT'S the Jesus you claim to love so much (don't get me wrong, those shortcomings in Catholic Masses shouldn't happen, but you know what I mean haha). But their hearts are sadly hardened against Him and don't even recognize it; at this point I think only Our Lady has the gentle, motherly hand to guide and correct their hearts before it's too late, before Jesus says to them "I never knew you."

[@wisething2do]

Jesus paid the price, friend. You cannot add one thing to His sacrifice. Penance is an insult, imo. Obedience is one thing. Trying to justify oneself even more through self-sacrifice is heretical. Nothing can be added to Jesus' death to pay for our sin. Not even the Eucharist. It. Is. Finished. Speaking of personal interpretation and group think, you do realize that that is how believers who think Mary worship is wrong view your perspective, right?

[@ivanabacicdonadic7976]

We pray to Mary and the saints asking them to pray for us. Not more or less than that. Just as we ask our family or friends to pray for us. And it works, sincere prayer always does.

[@foodforthought8308]

Doesn't the Rosary actually pray to Mary? Doesn't it ask Mary for protection and help? Do we ask other saints for protection and help? It seems to me that Mary is uniquely being prayed to in a way similar to how we pray to Christ. If that's true, that's a big problem

[@foodforthought8308]

I definitely (and probably am in a doctrine sense) wrong. But that's the impression I get as a Protestant

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

@@foodforthought8308 So it's actually very simple: Mary is the Mother of God. Because of this, She has been sealed in perfect unity with the Holy Spirit. She COULD do similar things that Christ can do....but She does NOT do those things. Why? Because She is full of humility, piety, and charity; She fervently wants to see the will of Her Son, and furthermore the Lord Our God, the Father, done by His will alone. She is nothing without God, and She fully admits it, and embraces it without blemish or question. So, to go back to your question: yes, we are actually praying to Mary...but She has 3 things going for Her that make praying to Her more special than to pray to a saint specifically other than Her (and that is not diminishing the saints, but it is giving recognition and adoration where they're rightfully due). 1. She is Jesus's Mom. Christ is the Right Hand of the Father, the Son of Man, the Savior of the World. She never once took the credit for invoking and telling Christ to begin His public life at Cana, because She is full of humility. She is full of humility, because She is the New Eve, the New Woman...and She took those truths in stride. It's why when Her apparitions appeared at Fatima or Guadalupe, or even Lourdes She never once calls Herself "Mary" or "Queen of Heaven." She keeps her name hidden and in a state of humility, why? Because: She is lesser than Her Son, and is a perfect human creature, reflecting the ways we ought to live like Christ. She was also hidden from Satan's domain (since the world became his when Eve sinned against God, and then HID HERSELF from God), so that She could rightfully give the honor and glory BACK to God by conceiving the Christ. And now, She has the power to crush the SERPENT'S head...the same serpent that divided God from Eve in The Garden, His children...now, reunited with the New Eve, a perfect human creature named Mary, who gave birth to the New Adam, Jesus Christ. Thus it is fulfilled and done when Christ suffered on the cross, that God's mercy and salvation, and sacrifice was appeased and adored in Christ's Passion...we are now capable of mercy by Christ's forgiveness. We, the fallen of the garden, are now coming full circle BACK to God's mercy and fullness in Christ, the perfect Sacrificial Lamb. 2. She is in unity with the Holy Spirit. Because of this, She has the ability to do many if not ALL of the wonders of Christ....yet She alone WILL NOT do that, due to the points made previously. 3. When we ask for prayer, it's the same as asking a relative for prayer, yes...but She is unique for the reasons above, AND because She is in heaven now. That means She is in the best place to offer and fervently pray for us poor sinners, as are all the angels and saints. And as it states in the Hail Mary prayer: "pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death," that last statement is so crucial and dire. We are asking for Her to pray for us ALWAYS, because when we die: Satan is going to deliver his final temptation to the souls who are being brought before Christ for judgement. He will try *_everything_* in his power to manipulate, distort, and distress us to sin...that means damnation, friend. And Christ may very well say: "Depart from me, I never knew you." So, when we are asking Her to pray for us "at the hour of our death," we are asking more than to just pray for us, we're asking Her to intercede for us, for our salvation in Christ, Her Son, and the Son of God the Father! She will be our guide, and our advocator before Christ Himself as he delivers judgement to our souls. If we aren't asking for Her help, and never want it in the first place: friend, that means you are exposed and about to have EVERY angle of your soul assaulted by the evils, malicious, wicked and abhorrent tricks of the devil to be tempted to despair and NOT BELIEVE YOU ARE SAVED. If that happens, Christ WILL deem you unworthy...you WILL be dragged to hell. That is why we NEED an advocator, and who better than the Mother of God Herself: She is so tender, so kind, and so strong in Her faith towards Christ and God the Father. So, hope these points help and explain it a bit clearer why we pray to Her above the other saints. She is the chiefest of all humans, but She is NOTHING and powerless without Christ Her Son. And She would 100% agree...and She rejoices evermore-so when a new soul is brought to Christ, not because SHE did it, but because She is doing Our Father's bidding, and She loves serving Him as He created Her. Be safe friend. Glad you came here and watched the vid. May Our Lady shield you under Her veil and lead you to Christ Jesus. To Christ through Mary. God bless you, friend.

[@foodforthought8308]

@UnimpressedGojira I very much appreciate your thorough and charitable response. There is much we share in agreement - namely the fact that Mary is the Theotokos. Therefore she was and always will be the Mother of Jesus, the Davidic King. That in this sense makes her the Queen of Heaven and the Mother of the Literal and Mystical Body of Christ, the Church. On the same page there although I admit I haven't personally worked out the intercessory implications in my head. Also absolutely agree that she is the New Eve and the woman in Revelation 12 (who also I believe symbolizes Israel and the Church). Where I lose you is in the "advocate" language. The Sacred Scripture you and I share makes it clear that it is Jesus who is the Unique One Intercessor and Advocate, pleading our Case before the Father. Of course He is also the Judge we all will stand before. This does not mean that Mary does not intercede or even advocate in a motherly sense. I am content to let her exact role on our behalf to remain a mystery, as Sacred Scripture does. But what is explicit is that Jesus is Immanuel, the Godman Mediator for whom Job had expressed craving. He is the High Priest who Presents to the Father His Finished work on the Cross on our behalf, ready to save those who surrender to Him their hearts. His purpose is to Save, not condemn (although we know He will do both). By Him we have direct access to God. The Second Vatican council attempted to make Christ the focus and reform the "all for Jesus through Mary" mindset. The fact of the matter is, one can have (as I have witnessed is often the case) a very weak Mariology but a pure, childlike faith in and Love for Our Lord that leaves little room for doubt of their ultimate salvation. Unfortunately, I have heard of opposite cases where a person's devotion and reliance on Mary absolutely trumps any intimacy with Christ - ultimately devolving into superstition and a dangerous spiritual state. The humble Mary we know would much rather be ignored and see us run directly to her Son. She did not come to save us from the wrath of Christ, which the mid nineteenth century Marian apparition (I believe blasphemously) suggests, but rather Christ who mercifully came to save us from the just wrath of God. This is not just a Protestant objection - many Catholics and Eastern Orthodox would not feel comfortable with this portrayal of Mary. I believe that neither Mary herself would.

[@ivanabacicdonadic7976]

@foodforthought8308 This is what rosary consists of (along with prayers to God Himself): Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. The first part is directly from the Gospel (Luke 1:28,42), and the second is asking her to help us with her prayer. Whoever truly loves and trusts Mary, I think, automatically loves and trusts God, because her personality is such - she is completely devoted to God. And even just thinking of her directs one's thoughts to God. Also, whenever we pray to saints, we say: Saint ..., pray for us. If one believes in some kind of magical powers that Mary and the saints have outside God's power, then one misses the whole point of course, but I've been Catholic my whole life and I didn't meet Catholics who pray to Mary or saints as deities. There are jokes in that sense, but in essence, no, it's not the case - the central prayer of our faith is Our Father and the Holy Mass is our collective celebratory prayer to Him. Mary and the saints are not mediators which we have to go through to come to God, but a help in directing our thoughts to God. A help that is not obligatory in any way, but that is on our disposal if we want it. Their lives on Earth serve as inspiration to us and their prayers in heaven work, as any sincere prayers to God do. God answers all prayers, He never dismisses any single thought directed to Him. However, I understand the concerns of protestants, and I think those concerns are useful to keep us Catholics in check, so to speak. And vice versa. It seems to me that religious diversity has an important role in keeping us all as a whole closer to the truth. God is almighty and beyond our comprehension, I think we'll be amazed and surprised one day in heaven by how much that is. There's no good life outside God, whoever reaps the fruits of good, does that by maintaining a true relationship with Him. The specifics of how one establishes that connection is irrelevant, in my view. The practices alone don't mean anything, like any other 'magic formulas', unless they are backed by our sincere outcry to God, the source of all life.

[@YuriBaja]

She's my Mama too. Jesus Himself, gave her to us.

[@BernardoRojasdeLuna]

They go on their knees from Puebla to Mexico City, carrying their images, sometimes hitting themselves, on her birthday, They pray to her, get tattoos from her, venerate her, and put images of her on their things to protect them. Idols have eyes, yet they don't see. And people who worship idols become like them, having eyes, they can't see.

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

Nothing wrong with veneration, it's the lowest form of worship. The highest form of worship is reserved for God in the sacrificial Mass performed by our priests. Similar to the Israelites who prayed and bowed down in front of the Ark and the Tabernacle and the Bronze Serpent as veneration but their highest form of worship was reserved for God in the sacrificial liturgy performed by priests. This disconnect for protestants is that they think prayer/singing is worshipping God and it's not that at all. It's only a form of communication. They don't have a sacrificial liturgy like the Mass which is worship reserved solely for God.

[@Pac81]

Let's take a moment to appreciate how awesome Fr Pine's beard is. I wish mine could be as nice 😊

[@OurLadysTheology]

This is the problem with the English language.

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

Can I get a thumbs up to support teaching Latin again in ALL schools nationwide, and across the world so we can return to: "The High Latin Mass"?!?! HYYYYPPPE

[@wisething2do]

​@@Peaceful_GojiraHow about Greek and Hebrew? Even better.

[@MBarberfan4life]

I think this issue is more nuanced than most Catholics and most Protestants let on. Is it possible to honor Mary without idolizing her? Of course, that's possible. Is it also possible to idolize Mary? Of course, that's possible.

[@bibleman8010]

and its also possible to spit against the wind

[@LaserFace23]

Sure, there can be nuance like that, but these issues come down to "do Protestants/Catholics actually understand/follow the doctrines they're talking about?" I'm sure there are theoretically some Catholics who genuinely worship Mary, just like I'm sure there are theoretical "Bible alone" Protestants that don't actually read their Bible, but instead just have their pastor tell them what the Bible teaches. Individuals' shortcomings don't invalidate the orthodox doctrines of the faiths those individuals follow. So, the discussion should be focused on which doctrines are true, not "Well what if THIS happened?" or "Well I know a Protestant/Catholic who..." And when examined honestly, Orthodox Catholicism's claims about Mary all make sense and are in-line with the truth, while "Orthodox Protestantism" (if there can be called such a thing, haha) is out-of-line.

[@MBarberfan4life]

@@LaserFace23 never denied any of that. We can't ignore these practical realities. These aren't just mere possibilities either. There are genuinely a lot of Catholics who do idolize Mary, and there are a lot of Protestants who dishonor or don't honor Mary. Those are sinful and, yes, against orthodoxy.

[@MBarberfan4life]

@@LaserFace23 you just ignored the context. Claims like "Catholics don't worship Mary" is not nuanced---that was my entire point.

[@MBarberfan4life]

@@LaserFace23 which Catholic doesn't worship Mary? Is idoltary of Mary seriously not a thing we should worry about????!!!!!

[@kenu995]

God bless you all. Hoping the Prots keep it civil

[@LaserFace23]

Not going well so far lol

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

@@LaserFace23 fr fr. I'm trying to keep a calm head lol EDIT: I was arguing with a bot xD hahaha. Thank you Jesus for some added humility, lol. I love you Christ Jesus, I love you Mama Mary ❤‍🔥

[@wisething2do]

I think your comment is a stealthy (back handed) way of being uncivil. 😢

[@kenu995]

​@@wisething2doI love my Protestant brothers but they tend to dogpile us. It's unfortunate.

[@claytonhall989]

In the Hail Mary prayer, it ends with “…pray for us now and at the hour of our death. Amen.” If she’s a deity, then we would not ask her to pray for us. Additionally, who are we asking Mary to pray to on our behalf? Her son, Jesus Christ.

[@wisething2do]

The Holy Spirit prays for us...

[@SonOfThineHandmaid]

@@wisething2do as do other believers. Like Mary. Do you seriously never pray for anyone?

[@williampeters9838]

I don’t have a problem with the idea of prayers to saints as much as how it tends to work out in practice in the laity. Phrases like the “queen of heaven” among others aren’t helpful in distinguishing divinity from humanity. I wouldn’t have any issues with it except that it seems to elevate her to a similar status as Jesus if we say He is our king. I believe Mary is the most blessed of women and should be revered but she is a finite human. We are all infinitely less than Him. I wish that instead of defending confusing language Catholics would change it to reflect what their teachings are. I can sympathize with a lot of things being caricatured by critics, but I feel like a lot of it is self inflicted considering their own laity often embody the straw man arguments due to how confusing it is.

[@atgred]

The problem is that God himself has elevated her, not us!! As God promised to those who lower themselves He will lift up. He has done that with the most humble creature, Mary.

[@williampeters9838]

@@atgredI agree. I don’t have a problem with Mary elevated above the other saints for there’s clearly a hierarchy in heaven. What I have a problem with is the language which seems to elevate her above her humanity. We say Jesus is king because He has the divine nature in addition to his human nature. There is an infinite gap in status between creature and creator versus a finite gap between creatures which I believe should be more clearly emphasized by Catholics.

[@nightyew2160]

As with many of the titles honoring Mary, they point to truths about Jesus. I believe Mary is called Queen of Heaven BECAUSE Jesus is the King of Heaven. Remember, in the period of kings in the Old Testament, some kings had a harem of wives. Therefore, the woman who received the honor of being queen was the king's mother, not the wife. Calling Mary the Queen of Heaven neatly shows both the humanity of Jesus (His true sonship by a human woman) and His divinity (as King of Heaven). I think it is okay to embrace ideas that are complicated to explain, as long as they are true. Discarding everything that is confusing to some people would cause too many truths to be lost. Also, it is too arbitrary since people have varying levels of intelligence in general, and even people with relatively equal intelligence will differ on which subjects are confusing to them. How can we ever draw a line between truths that are easy to understand and truths that are too difficult to explain? Furthermore, Christianity itself is founded on ideas that are beyond human understanding, only known to be true because God revealed them to us. How can there be three Persons in God Who is One? How can a Divine Person Jesus Christ keep His fully Divine Nature while taking on a fully human nature? Even the best of human minds has its limits and can never fully grasp the whole and infinite Truth. However, we should not drop the truths we do have just because there will always be those who don't get it.

[@luzclara3855]

In the Jewish tradition, which was Jesus', the queen was always the mother of the king, and not the wife. Since Jesus is King, that makes her the Queen. However, the king was always more powerful and important than the queen. So it is also with Jesus and Mary: He is God, and she is not, she is only human, but nonetheless Queen.

[@robert-de-calvary]

@@williampeters9838 I agree, people here are perhaps very well educated about this but I know that just normal Catholic people who dont spend their evenings watching theological debates on youtube think of Mary as some goddess because of this confusing language.

[@KeylessDustin]

Interesting video, I’m a southern Baptist myself but I have both Roman and Anglican catholic friends.

[@matthewphelps5136]

As long as ALL credit is given to God.

[@PaxChristi7]

I greatly appreciate this clip. I’ve recently been having these thoughts about the Hail Holy Queen and the language that it uses. These explanations definitely help!

[@warriorandscholar6692]

Jesus didn't seem to have a special veneration for Mary...for instance here in Mark: "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

[@TheMadman911xx]

I'm not sure I understand. Did Mary not do the will of the Father which is in heaven? If she did, then is she not included in this proclamation?

[@LaserFace23]

Just because those who follow Christ are honored to be His adopted family doesn't mean that Mary, who did the will of the Father before Christ even existed (and did it perfectly, no less!) is somehow less honored. If you're implying Jesus is actually denigrating the status of His mother in front of a whole crowd of people with this verse, that's breaking the commandment to honor one's parents, which means Jesus sinned, which is a whole theological can of worms I'd recommend not opening.

[@wisething2do]

​@@LaserFace23Mary did the will of the Father before Christ existed? No. Christ existed before Mary. Mary is not sinless. She needed salvation like the rest of us. She was humble and obedient, but not sinless.

[@feeble_stirrings]

The analogy of being 'saved by the cross' is a great example! Thanks for that.

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

@@thomasgissler I will be praying for you, friend. Just remember, the Bible wasn't written and published until 150-200 years after Christ's ascension into heaven. That means a lot of what Protestantism teaches is false, because: A. The importance of Apostolic Succession is 100% valid, which the Bible doesn't mention once. B. We're told to gather in a church to worship Christ, yet the Bible makes no mention of a place called the church. C. The Bible never mentions the cross being the symbol of our faith, yet we make it all the same. D. Nowhere does it say in the Bible to celebrate Easter, or formulate a holiday called Easter...yet we do it. Bottom line is, if you're going to go by Sola Scriptura, as Luther put it, I would advise too to recognize this: Martin Luther, and many other 1st Generation Protestant Reformers alike had no questions or doubts that the Blessed Virgin Mary was THE Immaculate and Unblemished Mother of God, and all that that entails (Her piteousness, holiness, humility, etc.). God didn't just choose Her to birth His Son into the world...He MADE Her and was found FULL OF GRACE (as the angel Gabriel told Her)...to be full of grace means you are without blemish...you're in a state of sinless perfection, and are right with the Lord Our God. That isn't something to just glaze over, that's monumental! Also, just because She is the new Eve: a New Perfect Creature created by God BEFORE ALL TIME (remembering that God thought up ALL His creations outside the confides of time, because God exists outside time and space itself), and hid Her away from the world...because Eve hid from God in the garden when she betrayed and sinned against God. Now, The Blessed Virgin Mary is going to crush the serpent's head under Her bare foot, because She is God's New Eve, and She has brought in the Savior of the World, the New Adam, to rid sin forever. Luther would argue FOR these notions...but every Protestant pastor or theologian you talk to today? Forget it. Many of them will disagree with this very notion, and THAT is dangerous. But again, this is your faith forming, not mine...I have made my choice to trust Her Immaculate Heart and be guided to Christ's Sacred Heart. As one of the church fathers wrote: "To Christ, through Mary." All the same friend, be safe. God bless. Pax Christi.

[@robert-de-calvary]

Surely in daily conversations if someone says that they been saved by the cross they by Jesus, but I get the impression that when people say they been saved by or helped by Mary they literally mean Mary like she's some Goddess who has helped them or performed a miracle which is very problematic thing to believe.

[@feeble_stirrings]

@@robert-de-calvary All that the Virgin Mary or the Saints do, they do by the power of Christ. The same as if you asked me to pray for you, I laid hands on you were healed. Hopefully you wouldn’t think it was me that healed you, I know I certainly wouldn’t!

[@robert-de-calvary]

@@feeble_stirrings sure, and you know this and I know this, that's great. However, I'm Catholic and I know normal every day people who don't spend their time watching hours long theological podcasts, and because of such very high focus on Mary in the Catholic church many people honestly think that if they pray to Mary she can perform miracles or help them in some way. In any case, I still don't understand, when you kneel down and pray, why not just pray to Jesus directly?? He loves me, he created me, he died for me, he saved me (NOT Mary). Why do I need to pray to Mary so she prays for me to Jesus on my behalf?

[@feeble_stirrings]

@@robert-de-calvary Thankfully, it's not an either/or. We can and should do both. Scripture encourages us to pray for and ask each others prayers and it encourages us to cry out directly to God for our needs. But God seems to delight in our cooperation in His work in the world. Could He make a bag of money appear out of no where on someones door step who has a need? Certainly! But far more often he inspires someone else to give generously and He bless the person through that giver. I think it's the same with our prayers, he uses us to pray for others and blesses them and us by this. It's the same for the Saints and Mary. They are co-workers with God, just like St. Paul said of himself and the other Apostles (1 Cor 3:9-13)

[@constantdoodle32]

I dunno. I'm protestant. That first statement set off some alarms

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

You are a wise man.

[@courag1]

Paul states that “there is ONE Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” So the whole ideas of the New Testament is that there has been only one who is without sin, the Bible does not state that Mary is without sin. When Paul states “only one” how does this allow for any other mediators?

[@bigfootapologetics]

The definition of “mediator” includes anyone who is facilitates relations between two parties. That would include parents, intercessors, teachers, pastors, and even the apostles. So a literal reading doesn’t follow. Rather, read what the Bible actually is saying, in light of the verses prior, in the way all pre-Protestant Christians did - Jesus Christ, in His saving role, is our one mediator before the Father. After all, if 1 Tim. 2:5 precludes all mediators, then 1 Tim. 2:1-4 doesn’t make sense when it tells us to intercede for one another, a form of mediatorship.

[@LaserFace23]

You kinda cut off the rest of St Paul's sentence there; 1 Timothy 2:5 ends with a comma, not a period. The full thought Paul is conveying is lost when you stop at a single verse. The full sentence is "there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all." That second half clarifies the meaning of the first half, in other words "Of all the mediators between God and men, only Christ Jesus gave himself as a ransom for all." And there are indeed multiple mediators in the Bible. Every single prophet is a mediator. Same with every priest. The kings and judges can also be argued to mediate God's justice. But of all these mediators, only Jesus Christ has the honor and glory of dying to save us, for which He deserves eternal praise of the highest order.

[@bibleman8010]

Oh crap the Bible has another mediator between man and God 1 And Moses *called all Israel, and said to them: Hear, O Israel, the ceremonies and judgments, which I speak in your ears this day: learn them, and fulfil them in work. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 He made not the covenant with our fathers, but with us, who are now present and living. 4 He spoke to us face to face in the mount out of the midst of fire. 5 I was the mediator, and stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you his words; for you feared the fire, and went not up into the mountain, and he said: LOve how you only Use a sentence fragment to make you pathetic doctrine (“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus) In fact 1 Tim. 2:5-6 says: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”1 Now let’s take a look at what St. Paul wrote in the preceding four verses: “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men.” (1 Tim. 2:1) St. Paul is telling Timothy and all disciples of Jesus Christ that they are supposed to offer supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanks on behalf of all men. In short, Paul says Christians are to play a mediating role. Next verse, picks up after “for all men”: “For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.” (1 Tim. 2:2) St. Paul is making clear, not only are we to make prayers of intercession, supplication, etc. on behalf of all mankind, but even those in authority over us, such as kings! Why does St. Paul exhort Timothy and all Christisns to play this mediating role? Verse 3: “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour.” (1 Tim. 2:3) Who is “God our Saviour”? Jesus Christ, of course. Paul is saying quite explicitly that the mediation he is exhorting us to make “is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,” in the sight of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So now we get to verse 4, which tells us why Jesus Christ would desire this from us: “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”(1 Tim. 2:4) The reason we ought to make these various prayers of mediation is because Jesus Christ desires, “all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” And now we come to verse 5, not cherry-picked out of context but within the context of St. Paul’s first letter to Timothy, chapter 2, verses 1-6: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” (1 Tim. 2:5-6) In short, 1 Tim. 2:1-6 instructs all Christians to mediate on behalf of all mankind through different types of prayer, which are offered through the one mediator Jesus Christ. And in order to assuage any doubt about this, St. Paul adds: “Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.” (1 Tim. 2:7-8) “Mediatrix” is explained. For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source. The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer. The Church’s perspective of Mary as subordinate, as any member of the faithful would be

[@bibleman8010]

There is only one mediator between Man and God. The Catholic Catechism clearly states four times that Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and Man (Paragraphs 618, 956, 1544, and 2574) Christ's role as the only mediator is that he sacrificed himself for the remission of sin. The Catholic Church has always believed that Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man. It is the death and resurrection of Jesus alone by which people are saved. Christ is our one mediator/intercessor, yet, St. Paul commands all Christians to be intercessors/mediators. Then notice the first word in verse five: “For there is one God and one mediator…” And then in verse seven he says, “For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle.” What is an apostle if not a mediator? The very definition of apostle, according to Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, is “a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders.” That’s an essential part of what a mediator is. In short, St. Paul says we are all called to be mediators because Christ is the one mediator and for this reason he was called to be a mediator of God’s love and grace to the world! Is this a contradiction? Not at all! The fact that Jesus is our one mediator does not preclude him from communicating this power by way of participation. The Bible also declares: “But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have one teacher, (Gr. - didaskolos) and you are all brethren.” This text cannot be any clearer, yet James 3:1 and Ephesians 4:11 tell us we have many teachers (Gr. - didaskoloi) in the Church. The key is to understand that the many teachers and mediators in the body of Christ do not take away from Christ as the one teacher and mediator because they are, in a sense, Christ on this earth and they serve to establish his offices of teacher and mediator in him. As members of the body of Christ graced with a specific task by Christ they can say with St. Paul in Galatians 2:20, “It is not I, but Christ who [teaches] in me…”

[@Forester-]

You are confusing the unique mediation of Christ's incarnation and the mediation by which all the faithful participate in through their co-laboring with Christ. Mary, or anyone for that matter can intercede for us just as Abraham interceded for Sodom and Job interceded for his friends. None of it is apart from Christ

[@tmlavenz]

4:00 There would be no Mary to say Yes to our salvation without her parents, going back and back to Abraham and all the rest. This logic amounts to saying: were it not for anything that happened remotely related to my present knowledge of Christ, I'd be damned. The most telling comment in the video comes right at the end though, when the host says: 6:30 _We shouldn't be afraid to say things we don't actually mean._ Yup: if it sounds "lovely," that's enough for the Caths.

[@xbriannaxbananax]

Right. And, if it weren't for Mary, God would have just chosen some other woman to birth Jesus. It's ridiculous to say we wouldn't have salvation if it weren't for her.

[@etheretherether]

A lot of ex-Catholic Protestants I know had bad experiences with their particular parish. Going to some Latin American or South East Asian countries I can totally see how. Some parishes have mixed the veneration of Saints and Mary with native religion to the extent that I'd almost say those parishes are preaching a different religion from Catholicism altogether. My moms family left food out for the deceased to "eat", prayed to the deceased for eternal salvation, and attributed many of the things we think of as belonging to a pagan "mother nature" to Mary. Sure, the parish still did mass, but it was perfunctory and the views that the priests expressed in conversation were mostly pagan with only a hint of Catholicism. I think it's worth holding onto the possibility that prots have interacted with that kind of Catholicism when addressing concerns.

[@calmontes651]

Catholics believe the body of Christ is present in the Eucharist. Literally. So it doesn’t matter how else locals venerate their dead ones or Mary or Saints, they know the difference, because at mass they worship the real presence of God. A Protestant that doesn’t believe in the real presence of Jesus in our time (in the Eucharist), can’t grasp the distinction of worship vs veneration. If someone believes the Eucharist is a symbol, they can’t understand how the rest is not the same. A Catholic can grasp the difference because their belief system has two levels, at the top is the trinity (God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit), and below is everyone else. Even a Catholic with doubts about the presence in the Eucharist makes space for the two levels.

[@stephaniedorothy6525]

I’m asking this question with a humble heart. On the Rosary, why are there more Hail Mary’s, than our Fathers? God is a jealous God, so the whole concept of praying the Rosary seems unbiblical. Could you explain how it’s beneficial? I honestly can’t make peace with it in my Spirit.

[@tylerbacon5146]

Because it's a prayer focused on Mary. Try the Divine Chaplet if you want a more Christ-focused prayer.

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

Because it is a pagan prayer-bead mantra that is repetitively chanted -- the Roman Catholics believing that there is some sort of power in the repetition of this mantra/prayer, just like the pagans do -- *and Jesus told us that its not true, a worthless pagan ritual, and that instead of wasting time on that repetitive prayer, GO DIRECTLY TO GOD with your prayers -- Matthew 6:7-9, John 14:13-14, John 16:23, Phil 4:6, Isaiah 8:19, etc*

[@YWahli]

Then his mother and his brothers came to him, but they could not reach him because of the crowd. But he answered them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.” And he was told, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see you.” Luke.8.19,Luke.8.21,Luke.8.20 version ESV wor·ship noun the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. "the worship of God" We can change language to mean anything. In action, it’s still just worship. I appreciate this channel and not shying away from the tough questions. I thinks it’s an honest approach but don’t see how it can justify the worship of Mary.

[@bibleman8010]

AND who herd the word OF God and did it Mary as the first Person To say Yes to Gods plan for redemption Mary Was the First person to say thy will Be done Mary thru who the WORD was made Flesh The words of the first part of the Hail Mary are words addressed to her by the angel Gabriel and her relative Elizabeth. The second part is merely a request for the mother of God to pray for us. But most important of all: the whole point (the context) of the Hail Mary is not Mary but the incarnation of Jesus. Without the incarnation, we would have no Our Father. If Jesus had not taken flesh in her womb, we would necver have heard of her. So whenever we pray the Hail Mary, we are professing our faith in Jesus, the Word made flesh. As she said to Elizabeth, her soul magnifies the Lord; everything about her speaks of God.😘😘

[@YWahli]

Mary is no small significance. I don’t think any Christian would ever argue that. Prayer to Mary as though she was omnipotent is where the boundaries have been crossed into deity. The Holy Spirit prayers for us. Why not ask the Holy Spirit instead? Or prayer to Jesus, If your will be done have this Saint pray for us would be less harmful if you felt bound to that ideology.

[@bibleman8010]

@@YWahli since when do Catholic say Mary is omnipotent no place. We have an omnipresent God who can reveal all to whoever he wishes such as the great cloud of witnesses angles and all the saints in Heaven and on earth .😜😜 Rev 5 :8-12 ➨ INTERCESSION of the SAINTS: REV 5 v 8... 8 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones. 9 They sang a new hymn: "Worthy are you to receive the scroll and to break open its seals, for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation. Only an Omniscient God can understand all the languages of all nations Nations..John Is a creature and Cant. Only an Omniscient God. 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe, cry out: "To the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever."Now John HERD ALL THIS all those languages of the earth. How did He hear all those Languages and understand them . God Had to have made it possible for John why couldn’t he do that for those in Heaven as well.. So why cant Mary and the saints hear since they have an Omniscient God to Make things Know to them the saints don’t have to Be Omniscient. God gave them that ability. What are , the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders doing with . Those Prayers in their hands the prayers of the holy ones.Why did God give those Prays to them to Give them to Him 9When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar 8 the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God.10 cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true master, 9 before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?"11Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been. This Makes It Know to those Saints In Heaven That God would avenge the saints On earth at a Further tine The lord can Make know to those in heaven what happens on earth at a future time They are Now aware of thing going on Now do you think since they pray to the Lord they would not be praying to the Lord for their Brothers and Sisters of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been to preserve them as the others had been . What act of Love are Christians told to do for one another Pray for one another Rev18: 19-24 What’s the reaction to those in heaven… To the destruction Of Babylon On earth if they aren’t made aware of what’s happening on earth. God made them aware giving Biblical proof that The Saints can be made aware of what’s taking place on Earth. They must have seen it Because allowed them to see it. Mathew 18:6-7 Do not harm little children because God loves them as well as Babes in the Faith Physically or spiritually. . 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Why does he say this “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. What does that mean the Angles are assigned to these children to watch over them and pray for them. They go before the father and Intercede for them . How do Angles know what is taking place on earth Angles are not Omniscient God thru the Holy Sprit reveals it to them they don’t have to be Omniscient. Luke 15:7 I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance. How can People in heaven rejoice over someone coming to repentance? If they’re not aware of their repentance. Now since Mary and the Saints are In heaven are they aware of their repentance and rejoice. Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth. Luke 15:10 In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth

[@etotigana88]

I don't know how many times we Catholics have to explain ourselves to Protestants regarding "worship" of Mary. They'll just insist we're spinning the facts.

[@fabianapimentel6114]

Maybe because for sure you don't divinize her but I am from Latin America and there lots of people divinize her and they are not thought otherwise

[@johnfal1849]

You ask the dead to pray for you at best. This is NOT what Jesus told us to do. He commanded we pray to the Father.

[@Hawaiian_Pizza_Enjoyer]

@@johnfal1849 You can pray to the father while asking others to pray to the father for you as well. Dead or otherwise.

[@joe5959]

​@@johnfal1849martin luther enthusiast

[@LaserFace23]

​@@johnfal1849To say that those who died in full friendship with God (saints) are actually dead is a direct contradiction of Jesus' words to the Sadducees, that God is the God of the living, not the dead (Mark 12:27). When a Christian asks a Saint to pray for him, he's doing the exact opposite of asking the dead to pray for him; even though a Saint no longer has a living body, they are more alive than you and I are right now, because they're with God.

[@wierdpocket]

What do we do with those verse that speak of “God alone as worthy of honor and praise” or “his name alone is exalted” or “you shall worship the lord your god and serve him only” etc etc. it’s hard to claim what you’re saying here is true if people serve Mary (and they do and claim to), right?

[@nosuchthing8]

No, we just ask her to pray for us. Like I will pray for you.

[@m.d.sharpe8892]

But she's dead

[@Oatmealyum]

@@m.d.sharpe8892 No one is dead in Christ!

[@nightyew2160]

​@@m.d.sharpe8892Being dead doesn't make a difference. Moses and Elijah were dead when they spoke with Jesus during the Transfiguration. In His parable, Jesus describes the dead Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man as aware and having a conversation. In Revelation 6:9-10 the martyrs, awake and aware, ask how long until the Lord avenge them (while the ones who killed them are still alive on earth). Catholics trust in the Biblical evidence that the dead are awake and aware, talking to God and one another, and have a way to know the state of affairs on earth.

[@m.d.sharpe8892]

@@nightyew2160 that's a strawman and I think you know perfectly well what I mean and that I'm right

[@essafats5728]

​@@m.d.sharpe8892what are u, a juvenile?

[@MattKyleBullerthemattkylefiles]

Thursday you are hilarious

[@apostolicapologetics4829]

@4:13 James 5:20 uses this soteriological language. This doesn't mean we don't need Christ as Savior but Christ by His grace enables us to become participants in others spiritual pilgrimage to the Holy City.

[@parousia7]

Yes

[@philsdon8932]

Protestants regularly ask their pastor to pray for them, yet have trouble appealing to Mary who held The Lord in her arms after he was taken down from the cross.

[@fabianapimentel6114]

Because protestants don't believe that after death people is alive and participant in heaven before the resurrection in the last days. I know bc I am protestant 😅

[@philsdon8932]

@@fabianapimentel6114 There are over 30,000 protestant denominations worldwide. Each has its own belief system. For instance, Luther, the leader of the reformation venerated Mary. Once Luther stepped away from the church of Rome, everyone fought for the microphone and have been arguing ever since. There is no such thing as a uniform set of protestant beliefs. Not all protestants believe in same-sex marriage, but some do. Not all believe in abortion, but a lot do. There are huge areas of disagreement.

[@m.d.sharpe8892]

So Mary is held in higher regard than the average human being by God? Sounds like you're elevating her status to more than human

[@m.d.sharpe8892]

​@@fabianapimentel6114doesn't mean she can hear and answer prayers

[@LaserFace23]

@@m.d.sharpe8892 Yes, the human being whom God chose to grow and bear His human body has at least a slightly higher status than your average Joe. "She's built different" as the ancient theologians said.

[@CharlieO_]

Mary is sovereign, not a figurehead.

[@levijungling386]

I mean this with all charity. Sometimes I listen to Fradd and co and wonder why I'm not Catholic, and then sometimes I listen and go "oh yeah, that's why" 😅

[@StrongStyleJudoAction]

I feel you. Sometimes his videos make me want to fully come back to RC & there are other times like in this video where I'm like "Stop overreaching in trying to justify praying to anyone other than the Father in Christ"s Name".

[@Oatmealyum]

My friend, ignore what bothers you with other people, and look into the teachings of the Church :)

[@crusaderACR]

​@@StrongStyleJudoActionPrayer is not worship though? What's the problem there.

[@judgedredd31]

Who can be in all places at once? Who can understand every language? Who can hear all thoughts always? Who has the power to do all of these all the time? A Protestant will say, “God alone.” A Catholic must presume Mary also has these powers because they believe she hears and intercedes for anyone who prays the rosary. So when a prot says “cathys worship Mary,” what they usually mean is that the papist assumes Mary is in such a position that she has God-like powers or that she has the Godly role of “intercession” (which is Christ’s alone). It has nothing to do with admiration or the wrong classification of dulia.

[@bman5257]

Or she has the prayers delivered to her by God and because she lives in the Eternal now she has enough time to respond to each of the prayers.

[@nightyew2160]

If Morgan Freeman can figure out a way for Jim Carrey to hear everyone's prayers, I am guessing God can figure out a better way to do it. 😉

[@judgedredd31]

@@bman5257so God delivers prayers to Mary for Mary to then intercede to God about them? When does Jesus intercede for us in that process? Kind of a big deal to pray to someone besides God in the chance that God takes those hundreds of thousands of prayers that come in every hour for Mary to deal with. It all begs the question(s).

[@judgedredd31]

@@bman5257technically we all “live in the eternal,” in that our souls are incorruptible. That being said, your comment doesn’t address the Mary does not have God like powers nor does it address how Christ is our “one High Priest” as the Bible says.

[@judgedredd31]

@@nightyew2160lol that movie made total sense. But once again, it leaves the real Christ out of the conversation.

[@TesterBoy]

Where in scripture does it ever mention that Mary or the other saints are omniscient? Because to hear the prayers for those of us on earth this would be a necessary faculty. They are now worshipping Jesus into eternity. The priest who defines two forms of worship is using artificial, carnal reasoning to create a false definition of "worship' to justify a practice that is not of God. Were the saints in heaven were to come down to Earth they would confront these two and say, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!” Revelation 22:9. It is heartbreaking but surely true that too many Roman Catholics know neither the Word of God (the scriptures) nor the power of God (God Himself). -- former Romanist.

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

great comment. Its Biblically obvious that GOD does NOT like it when we ask assistance for living Spirits of physically dead Saints/believers -- see GOD's reaction in 1Samuel 28:15 and. 1Chron 10:14 (1Corinth 10:11)

[@judexbarborum]

Finally somebody said it.

[@SonOfThineHandmaid]

Hail Mary, my dear Mother, my loving Mistress, my powerful sovereign! Hail my joy, my glory, my heart, and my soul!❤

[@wisething2do]

My powerful sovereign?!! My soul?!! Just wow. Absolutely heresy.

[@SonOfThineHandmaid]

@@wisething2do heresy? Not even close. I think you made a typo and meant "Christianity."

[@AlbornozVEVO]

Like St Francis said: "Everything we have belongs to God except for our sin." So the saints don't have special powers; they're not lower gods. Their holiness is only God's. We ask them, as a friend, to join us in prayer: "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

YOU: Like St Francis said: "Everything we have belongs to God except for our sin." *ME: Francis contradicts the Apostles. The Apostles taught that Jesus was cursed with ALL of our sins and ALL of God's judgement for our sins while on the wooden cross* -- SEE 1Peter 2:24, John 12:31-33, 2Corinth 5:21, Galatians 3:13, etc. *Jesus placed his sacrificed sinless blood on the altar in Heaven, giving Believers NEVER ENDING, PERPETUAL forgiveness for all of our sins* -- SEE Hebrews 8:12,26,28, Leviticus 17:10-11. *And PETER taught that in order to receive GOD's eternal forgiveness for our sins, all that we must do is BELIEVE/faith in Savior Jesus -- SEE Acts 10:38-43 (Luke 24:47-49)* Jesus has removed our sins FROM US, as far as the East is from the West -- SEE Psalm 103:12.

[@NicholasPickleous]

What a glorious beard.

[@Dienekes678]

No Mary, no Jesus. Know Mary, know Jesus.

[@marinalina6348]

Q... If we can go straight to Christ through his Holy spirit, why do we need Mary? Or any other Saint? Especially if he says he is a jealous God, and Jesus is The way, truth and life... Mary surely is a role model for divine living, but there is alot of time spent being her to get us to Christ when we should be able to go directly to Him in all things? Not?

[@sonicgeeksquad4g106]

@@RafaMCazares we can acknowledge these things without venerating people.

[@Sil-Von]

@marinalina6348 We can always go straight to the Lord, Catholics believe this as well. At times there are just those who’s testimony or special grace upon their lives gives the indication that they have a particular intimacy with God. Remember that depending on the circumstance, God does not listen to prayers of certain people (ex: husbands speaking harshly to their wives 1 Peter 3:7 or Job’s friends for speaking incorrectly on God’s character Job 42). All that said, if it is a stumbling block for you remember that we don’t have to ask for the intercession of the saints but we get to.

[@trudyfriedrich7416]

YOU don't go straight to Jesus when you ask a friend to pray for you. You are asking for your friends intercession. Same thing we do.... ask Mary to pray for us.

[@trudyfriedrich7416]

​@@Sil-Von YOU don't go straight to Jesus when you ask a friend to pray for you. Same thing we do... asking Mary to pray for us. God bless.

[@marinalina6348]

@@trudyfriedrich7416 that doesn't replace going to Jesus directly though, it's in addition to

[@MonarchPoolPlaster]

I'm on board with 99% of what Catholics believe, especially on social issues, but the veneration of Mary has always been a stumbling block for me. Why use the title Queen of Heaven when that's a title given to a pagan goddess in Jeremiah 7:18?

[@LaserFace23]

In the Davidic kingdom, the queen was not the king's wife, but his mother. Jesus is the true fulfillment of the Davidic kingdom, thus His mother is the queen. This is backed up, though not explicitly stated, by the imagery revealed in Revelation 12. That title in Jeremiah refers to Ishtar, a Mesopotamian goddess (demon), who was indeed called the "queen of heaven." However, King Nebuchadnezzar was called "king of kings." Does this mean that title, falsely applied to him, cannot rightly be applied to Jesus? Of course not, and the same logic goes for Mary; just because in Jeremiah's time the "queen of heaven" was a false queen, doesn't mean that the true queen should be denied her title once she's given the throne.

[@MonarchPoolPlaster]

@@LaserFace23 That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that before.

[@sonicgeeksquad4g106]

@@LaserFace23 why do i need to venerate mary. I just wanna worship Jesus.

[@LaserFace23]

@sonicgeeksquad4g106 I wouldn't say there's much of a "need" to do anything relating to Mary other than affirming her vital role as the Mother of God. That being said, if you become closer with a friend's mother, does that detract from your relationship with your friend? Hardly, in fact by getting closer to their mother, you can gain much greater insight into who they are as a person, and can have an even greater relationship through having a mutual closeness to their mother. Personally, my own love of the Lord and His gentle mercy has only increased as I've gotten closer to His Mother. So, again, you don't HAVE to do much of anything, but the real question should really be "Why wouldn't you WANT to? Why dismiss the woman God chose to be His mother as unimportant? Why would the mother of My Lord and King NOT be worth giving a high degree of respect to?"

[@ryanm6247]

Why use the title “king of heaven” when that is a title given to pagan gods? The existence of a false queen of heaven doesn’t eliminate the possibility of an authentic queen of heaven.

[@atgred]

Psalms‬ ‭45:9-17 “Kings' daughters were among thy HONORABLE women: upon thy right hand did stand the QUEEN (Rev. 12) in gold of Ophir. Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; So shall the KING GREATLY DESIRE THY BEAUTY: for HE IS THY LORD; and worship thou him (only). And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift (Lk. 1:28); even the rich among the people shall ENTREAT THY FAVOUR (intercession). The king's daughter is all GLORIOUS WITHIN (immaculate): her clothing is of wrought gold. SHE shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins (religious women) her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace (heaven). Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children (mother of the christians) whom thou mayest make princes (bishops) in all the earth. I WILL make THY NAME to be REMEMBERED IN ALL GENERATIONS (Lk. 1:48) therefore shall the people PRAISE THEE FOR EVER AND EVER.”

[@1Andelina1]

"Hail Mary" is a greeting in hello Mary.

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

Right, the Greek word means "REJOICE !!" or "BE HAPPY/glad !!" -- the Resurrected Jesus used this greeting to his disciples in Matthew 28:9.

[@dudeman1455]

People often mistake the giving of an answer to a question as having provided an adequate answer. This was like that. You say you are saved by Mary, or would be damned if it weren’t for Mary. Neither are true, and both are blasphemous. God didn’t need Mary to fulfill His plan of salvation, bit He did choose her to give birth to Jesus. He also chose the Israelites as the lineage which would end up bringing forth Jesus the Christ, but we wouldn’t say the Israelites saved us.

[@dudeman1455]

Also, I have personally witnessed on many occasions Catholics bowing down to the ground in front of a statue of Mary, praying to her. That is straight up idolatrous.

[@billmartin3561]

When discussing the veneration of Mary, the word “worship“ needs to be completely removed in our explanations. It is misleading. We have respect for and venerate Mary, we pray to her only to ask her intercession, not for any form of worship. This needs to be very clear in our language in order to explain our relationship with Mary (and the Saints) to our protestant brothers. And not to confuse Catholics themselves, who sometimes have overly inappropriate devotions to Mary, which actually border on worship. If you find you have more Marian decorations than crosses or Crucifixes in your home, you need to rethink your Christian priorities. The hail, holy queen prayer should be well understood by Catholics if they are going to use it, because the language can be interpreted incorrectly. This short episode did not do a good enough job explaining the language, it is worth its own video to explain it in a way that does not attribute divinity to Mary. To protestant ears, the entire prayer makes it sound like Mary is our savior, which she is not. She has a great role in the drama of salvation, but is not its cause.

[@bibleman8010]

who gives a crap about what protestants believe😆😆

[@seekingtruth4045]

I read mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope as mother of mercy, mother of our life, mother of our sweetness, and mother of our hope as you can do this in English and then simply say Jesus is these things and she is His mother.

[@ryanm6247]

I used to read it that way too, although I don’t think that is what the author intended. It is still true of course.

[@markusrowlland28]

I have 3 questions for my people in the comments or the dude himself: 1. If you can say: “thank you Mary for my salvation”, because she is His mother, then I can say: “Thank you boas for my salvation, oh all hail boas for my salvation? 2. Can I them make a rosary prayer for boas? If the “church of Rome” conclude that he is in heaven? 3. Jesus said: Who is my mother? And who are my brothers? Whoever does the will of my father”, so I can say: oh hail my brethren for my salvation? Thank you for answering these questions.

[@allencch]

> 1. If you can say: “thank you Mary for my salvation”, because she is His mother, then I can say: “Thank you boas for my salvation, oh all hail boas for my salvation? Boas is not highly favoured as Mary. We say Hail Mary, is based on how bible stated. (Luke 1:28) > 2. Can I them make a rosary prayer for boas? If the “church of Rome” conclude that he is in heaven? If we have more evidences that Boas is highly favoured, and Lord is with Him, and he participated in God's salvation plan like Mary (Mary participated in the first miracle of Jesus in the wedding of Cana, she also participated in the suffering of Jesus under the cross, Mary is highly favoured and the Lord is with her, she is overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, and she participated in the Pentecost), in my opinion we can make prayer like rosary to him. > 3. Jesus said: Who is my mother? And who are my brothers? Whoever does the will of my father”, so I can say: oh hail my brethren for my salvation? Again, we say Hail Mary is based on how the bible stated. If your brethren is highly favoured like Mary, and the Word made fresh in him, then "maybe" you can say "hail my brethren for my salvation"

[@bibleman8010]

@@allencch I guess the THE angel giving Gods Message to her was the only one who could say hail Mary

[@bibleman8010]

who did the will of the father Mary as the first Person To say Yes to Gods plan for redemption Mary Was the First person to say thy will Be done Mary thru who the WORD was made Flesh

[@markusrowlland28]

@@bibleman8010 1. how about Abraham? Is he not appart of Gods salvation plan? By this logic i could pray to anyone that did the will of the father or was apart of his salvation plan. 2. Where is the evidence even that the saints and Mary CAN hear our prayers? Sure they might be in heaven but they are not God, how can they hear your prayers even crazyer is that you believe they can hear you pray in your thoughts? And how does it help to kneel in front of their image or statue?

[@markusrowlland28]

@@allencch where is the evidence that Mary is highly favored more than other believers and saints? Solely based on that she is His mother? How blurry the faith becomes when a thousand years of tradition of good and bad is used as glasses to read it. I understand that we need to see how early church Christian’s interpret the scriptures, but it seems that Paul tried to make it less complicated rather than more complicated when he wrote to the churches. Paul rebuked Peter on making it unnecessarily complicated for the gentiles to “live like Jews”. How can we then justify all this “man made rules” in the Catholic Church?

[@bengoolie5197]

Vatican-2 has most likely suppressed this, but we were taught in school that God gave the Blessed Virgin Mary more grace than He gave to all of His other creatures COMBINED! That includes every creature angelic or human, who ever lived, is living now, and who ever will live, all the way to the end of the world! She is the Mother of Almighty God the Son Incarnate, so it is a logical teaching.

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

YOU: Blessed Virgin Mary more grace than He gave to all of His other creatures COMBINED! That includes every creature angelic or human, who ever lived, is living now, and who ever will live, all the way to the end of the world! *ME: The Apostles that KNEW Mary never taught that Mary had "more grace than everything combined" -- they actually taught that Mary was a SINNER* -- see Luke 1:48 and John 2:1-5. *In Matthew 11, JESUS said that John The Baptist was the GREATEST ever born of woman -- because John was the one prophesied in Malachi 3:1, Malachi 4:5-6 that would go before Jesus.* JESUS said that the centurion had more faith than anyone in Israel (including Mary) -- SEE Matthew 8:10. *Apostle Paul didn't even include Mary in his "Hall of Great Faith" in Hebrews 11 & 12.* Apostle Paul, who had great spiritual wisdom (2Peter 3:15-16) and wrote most of the NT for us to follow, NEVER even mentions Mary. Mary was only chosen because she was a descendant of KING DAVID (Luke 3:23-39) -- *the Jewish Messiah HAD to be the SEED of King David* -- SEE John 7:42, Romans 1:3 -- *the Jewish Messiah HAD to be the SON of King David* -- SEE Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:9 -- *the Jewish Messiah HAD to be the OFFSPRING of King David -- SEE Jesus' words in Revelation 22:16*

[@carolinpurayidom4570]

0:28 I disagree with that definition worship means to treat them number one and to give one an honour that belongs to God only

[@ryanm6247]

Not in Medieval English

[@jordanmay6153]

My thing is as follows: I think I understand the technical distinction between latria and dulia. But practically, what are the distinctions? Is it that anything short of sacrifice cannot be latria? Is it possible to unintentionally render latria when inappropriate?

[@LaserFace23]

Look back to the Old Testament, and we see sacrificial worship to God, in the form of sacrificing bulls, lambs, doves, etc. These however we just to prime people's hearts and minds for the true atoning sacrifice of Jesus, the perfect sacrifice, the Lamb of God who truly takes away the sins of the world. When His sacrifice at Calvary was complete, there was no longer any need for the Levitical animal sacrifices of the Old Testament; a sacrifice to God should be only the best you can offer, and what more can I offer than the body and blood of His Son, lovingly shed for my atonement? This is why the Eucharist is so important. As the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present once the host is consecrated, the one true sacrifice of Calvary is lovingly brought to us to our present time and place. We can stand at the foot of the Cross and see the ugly consequences of sin, praise God's glorious and merciful name, and offer up the perfect sacrifice in atonement for our sins against Him. This is Latria. This is reserved for God alone -- no other being is ever offered this sacrifice at a Catholic Mass, and no other sacrifice would suffice at a Catholic Mass where one worships God. Anything that doesn't involve this manner of sacrifice is not the Latria reserved for the Triune God. Thus, any praise, prayer, song, devotion, no matter how apparently intense, never actually crosses the line from "Dulia" to "Latria" without an element of an actual sacrifice (this doesn't mean that something which is intended to be Dulia can't have errors and heresies though, but that's another issue and I've gone on long enough, haha)

[@calmontes651]

Wow that was a such great explanation. I never understood why it is so hard to understand that Catholics don’t worship Mary, to me it was so straightforward, but of course, only when you know true worship (the Eucharist) you can understand the virgin is just veneration. We believe Jesus is literally present in a consecrated bread and we know Mary isn’t. Jesus and Mary are so connected in the Catholic belief system. For us using a meditative prayer to think about the life of Jesus while vocally asking for Mary’s intercession is such a brilliant idea that we have been doing it for 800 years. Venerating Mary in Catholic tradition is 3x longer than Protestantism, it started in the third century. It has only become stronger as the church matured and people started having mystical experiences.

[@darrenmallows1792]

This is largely an American Protestant problem. Consider a monarch. Bowed to - in old English, "worshipped"- but not like God. Not just the British monarchy (which in a slightly alternate timeline could have remained Catholic) but an actual Catholic monarch like today's King of Spain. For that matter, consider your own grandmother, if you have a great one. Why wouldn't you be effusive in praise, adoration etc? It's a weird non-issue. Honestly: Americans just need better education (notwithstanding the host is Australian). Just treat Mary like a monarch or your very special chosen-by-God grandmother. Simple.

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

Yup, and if you don't it's eternity. Because we are told to honor thy mother and father. Well, if you're dishonoring Mary, Jesus's Mom, then you're dishonoring not just the Mother, BUT TOO the Father.

[@figeon]

Ok but why is Fr Pine looking like Gigachad?

[@z_nytrom99]

Soli. Deo. Gloria.

[@markanthony3667]

Roman Catholicism reminds me of Judaism in the first century. It has padded itself with so many stones! Take away Mary and all the thousand and one "saints" and fanciful things. Why can't you just believe in Jesus alone as He specifically, clearly, unambiguously said, "I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through Me!"? John 14.

[@nightyew2160]

Jesus said, "As the Father sent Me, so I send you." I don't want to reject those He sent us. He is the One Who chose to involve more than He and I alone.

[@markanthony3667]

@@nightyew2160 That is like asking, "As the full moon, so is the clock on the wall! Why then doesn't its face shine in the night?" Simple! the comparison is limited to shape, not to luminescence. Perhaps Roman Catholics can't think properly, logically. Maybe they're suffering from acute brain dysfunction or something. The magisterium has given them so much irrelevance that their brain suffers overload and so they just resign themselves to regurgitating stuff.

[@hopefull61256]

But he sent them to preach the above message, in Jesus's name.

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased. But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. This is a legit Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit. This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.". : ) :)

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. -Acts 3:19 :) :)

[@g00se99]

I grew up Catholic and I'm Wesleyan now. I found your arguments around Mary weak. Love your show and love you too.

[@mc07]

For anyone in heaven or in God’s presence having passed from this life to have the capacity to hear and respond to the prayers of many on earth is ascribing attributes to them that are only rightly God’s. How does a finite person, if they can presumably hear prayers from hundreds of thousands if not millions possibly handle it? No finite person could. Moreover, there is no scriptural basis for it. While we are on earth we can seek prayers and intercessory prayer from fellow believers because they are still present with us. And there is a clear scriptural basis for this. Not for prayers to Mary and the ‘Saints’. Prayer is only rightfully given or made towards the triune God alone. Nowhere in scripture are prayers rightfully made toward any finite person or Angel in heaven. Whenever the NT church prays, they pray to God alone. Whenever individuals in the NT pray, they pray to God alone.

[@bibleman8010]

HOW you ask because we have an omnipresence GOD who can reveal those things 😉😉 there is no scriptural basis for it Rev 5 :8-12 ➨ INTERCESSION of the SAINTS: REV 5 v 8... 8 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones. 9 They sang a new hymn: "Worthy are you to receive the scroll and to break open its seals, for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation. Only an Omniscient God can understand all the languages of all nations Nations..John Is a creature and Cant. Only an Omniscient God. 13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe, cry out: "To the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever."Now John HERD ALL THIS all those languages of the earth. How did He hear all those Languages and understand them . God Had to have made it possible for John why couldn’t he do that for those in Heaven as well.. So why cant Mary and the saints hear since they have an Omniscient God to Make things Know to them the saints don’t have to Be Omniscient. God gave them that ability. What are , the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders doing with . Those Prayers in their hands the prayers of the holy ones.Why did God give those Prays to them to Give them to Him 9When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar 8 the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God.10 cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true master, 9 before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?"11Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been. This Makes It Know to those Saints In Heaven That God would avenge the saints On earth at a Further tine The lord can Make know to those in heaven what happens on earth at a future time They are Now aware of thing going on Now do you think since they pray to the Lord they would not be praying to the Lord for their Brothers and Sisters of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been to preserve them as the others had been . What act of Love are Christians told to do for one another Pray for one another Rev18: 19-24 What’s the reaction to those in heaven… To the destruction Of Babylon On earth if they aren’t made aware of what’s happening on earth. God made them aware giving Biblical proof that The Saints can be made aware of what’s taking place on Earth. They must have seen it Because allowed them to see it. Mathew 18:6-7 Do not harm little children because God loves them as well as Babes in the Faith Physically or spiritually. . 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Why does he say this “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. What does that mean the Angles are assigned to these children to watch over them and pray for them. They go before the father and Intercede for them . How do Angles know what is taking place on earth Angles are not Omniscient God thru the Holy Sprit reveals it to them they don’t have to be Omniscient. Luke 15:7 I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance. How can People in heaven rejoice over someone coming to repentance? If they’re not aware of their repentance. Now since Mary and the Saints are In heaven are they aware of their repentance and rejoice. Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth. Luke 15:10 In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Those in Heaven must be aware of what’s happening on Earth😂😂

[@Forester-]

Why do you assume that anyone in heaven needs to have knowledge of or audibly hear particular prayers? Can't someone in heaven offer God their intercession for all those seeking it without direct knowledge in the same way that I pray for all those who have asked me to pray for them or need prayers without remembering them?

[@LaserFace23]

To love one's neighbor was Christ's second commandment; to earnestly pray that another person finds God is one of the highest Christian virtues. Why would God deny a Saint, someone who has been perfected by Him into a perfect Christian, the ability to exercise this virtue, only once that virtue has been perfected, simply because they're in heaven and we're not? Heaven isn't some insurmountable gap, at least for God. As for the "finite people cannot have attributes of God" point, there are at least two flawed assumptions. One is assuming which attributes of God are "only rightly His", and assuming that God simply cannot ever grant those to anyone else; but heaven is a place outside of space and time, you couldn't answer a million emails per day in *this* life, yet with eternal life and the loving help of God you could certainly get it done. And that leads to the second assumption, that any power the Saints have is somehow of their own making. It's not. Every Christian who's even remotely on the path to holiness knows that without Christ, they can do nothing. Nothing in this world is possible without at least the permissive will of God, and when it comes to having eternal life, that's only possible if God wishes to grant it. And again, why would the perfectly loving God NOT want to give His beloved children the opportunity to love and intercede for one another as He loved and interceded for us?

[@mc07]

@@bibleman8010 what John experienced was a prophetic vision. The context of the prayers of the saints is not relevant to praying to saints. God is omnipresent not people. Nowhere is it taught we can or need to pray to Mary or other saints. Only to the triune God.

[@mc07]

@@Forester- seems a bit hit and miss. We can pray for one another here and be specific in our prayers. But nowhere are we taught to pray to Mary or any saints in heaven. Only God.

[@KyleGillming]

Venerate is to give reference also and isn't that done silently? Also what about the scripture "thou shalt have no other God before me" (or something like that). Over venerating Mary (or other figures) wouldn't that create a behavior/culture in the sect that borderlines worshipping Mary? Seems like the explanation and the actions of the general mass is different from each other.

[@luzclara3855]

We Catholics only worship God. We venerate the Saints, and among them, the most extraordinary and important, Mary. To venerate means to greatly admire and respect, follow their advice, use them as roll models and, ask for their intercession, that is to pray for us to God. We all know a living person (relative, teacher, mentor), or present public or historical figure, who we consider worthy of great admiration, respect and emulation, so moreso with the Saints (because of their extraordinarily righteous and spiritual lives and example). We also ask our friends and relatives to pray for us, and it is the same with the Saints, these beings who understood/achieved/attained what we so very much aspire to understand/achieve/attained. They are our spiritual heroes (not our gods) and we love them dearly for who they were and what they did with their lives.

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

The Biblical definition of IDOLATRY is found in Deut 4:16,19 -- it is to make statues of a female for yourselves (without God's instructions to do so) -- it is to serve this female entity -- and it is to SHACHACH/worship this female entity. *The Hebrew word SHACHACH/worship simply means "to revere, to bow down to, to humbly beseech, to pay homage as to royalty".* *Romans Catholics makes statues of the female Mary* (without God's instructions to do so) -- *RCs bow down in reverence to these statues of this female entity -- RCs humbly beseech/pray to this female entity. -- RCs pay homage and make shrines to this female entity as the royal queen of Heaven -- RCs serve this female entity by repetitively chanting her mantra/rosary.* According to the Biblical definition of IDOLATRY, Roman Catholics commit idolatry with the female entity called the queen of Heaven -- just like the OT Jews in Jeremiah 7:18, 44:15-30. *Just slapping the title "christian" on the queen of Heaven, does not make it Christian -- thats why NOT ONE of the guys that KNEW Mary and wrote the NT for us, ever call Mary the queen of Heaven.*

[@tomgreene1843]

We are saved by Christ.....the padre seems a bit vague on this reflection ....outside Him there is no salvation. This clip runs the strong risk of giving rise to a sort of humanitarian pantheism.

[@tomgreene1843]

What ??

[@hobaelala3056]

Intersetion .... when somebody is dead ?

[@garrettwurdeman7133]

I’m Lutheran, and a lot of low church Christian’s’ objections to Romanism are strawman. But one example of Marian devotion which I think genuinely goes much too far is the cult belief surrounding the Brown Scapular. “Whosoever dies wearing this scapular will not suffer eternal fire.”

[@nosuchthing8]

Never heard of that. Not approved by the pope.

[@LaserFace23]

The brown scapular is a sacramental, it's a sign of devotion, not something that saves. The scapular and that promise you mentioned have the full approval of the Church and a long history behind them, but all this really means is that if somebody died with it on, then they were devoted to the Blessed Virgin, and her protection and intercession; she's not just going to let her beloved children fall into hell, so even if they have to spend until the end of time in purgatory, God will ensure that they see heaven, because He loves His Mother and honors her wishes. Now this doesn't mean you just have free license to sin all you like as long as you wear the scapular. God controls and decides your fate ultimately, and if you're living sinfully but putting faith in the scapular to save you, there's a good chance that the one time you take it off is gonna be the time for you to die. Because again, it's not the scapular that saves, but God.

[@jonasknox4368]

Very well explained

[@GirolamoZanchi_is_cool]

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. -Acts 3:19 :) :)

[@brotherdave2591]

Did any NT writer call Mary "my life"? Or "the life"?

[@chrisbrownlov1]

So then can you breakdown the sotry of the Israelites and the golden calf. Was that worship? I hear different thinns about it from catholics.

[@mellieg.7543]

Yes, yes it was...

[@huntsman528]

"If it was not for Judah's fornication I would be damned" How does this make any sense? Could God not have picked a different virgin? This seems like a bad excuse for worshiping created humans.

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

GOD's words from the Beginning that the SEED of Israel (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 65:9) would defeat Satan's head/power (Hebrews 2:14) -- *were going to come to pass with or without Mary -- SEE Isaiah 55:11* -- if Mary had said "nope" then GOD would have just selected another virgin descendant of KING DAVID to birth the Messiah/King of the Jews -- Mary was only chosen because she was a descendant of KING DAVID (Luke 3:23-39, Luke 1:32) -- *the Messiah HAD to be the OFFSPRING of King David* -- SEE Revelation 22:16 -- *HAD to be the SON of King David* -- Matthew 1:1 -- *HAD to be the SEED of King David* -- John 7:42 Just like when GOD instructed Elisha to do 3 things -- he only did ONE -- *did that foil the plans of GOD ??* -- nope, GOD just got someone else to do the other two, Elijah. *And if Mary didn't do it, GOD would have just gotten someone else to do it -- GOD's words always come to pass and no mere puny human creature can stop it.*

[@e.m.8094]

Where in the Bible does it say to pray to saints who have passed? 🤷

[@nightyew2160]

Considering that the earliest Christian saints were still alive while most of the New Testament was being written, this is hardly a fair question.

[@essafats5728]

Same place where it says "trinity" "bible" "bible alone" "sinners prayer" "altar call" "personal relationship" "once saved always saved"

[@Burberryharry]

Yo Matt you should have @the other Paul on

[@Wilkins325]

Mary did not save us. Oh goodness

[@Sim0n-kv8jb]

She did indirectly by saying yes to God. Mary’s yes undid the no of Eve. Eve brought death in to the world by her disobedience, Mary brought life and salvation through Christ in to the world by her obedience. No yes, no Jesus.

[@LaserFace23]

For an analogy, let's say you're trapped under something, and yell out to a passerby for help. A woman hears you and says "I'm not strong enough to lift this, but my son is, hold on and I'll get him!" She then brings back her son to you, and he rescues you. Who saved you? Ultimately it was indeed the son, you wouldn't have been saved at all without him, but to downplay or outright deny the mother's role in your rescue would be entirely dishonest and disrespectful, because he wouldn't have come to help you if not for her.

[@Wilkins325]

@@LaserFace23 I am not downplaying Mary's role, just not inappropriately elevating it. Just hearing the words "Mary saved us" is jarring.

[@bman5257]

@@Wilkins325 Romans 11:13-14 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry [14] in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 1 Corinthians 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 1 Corinthians 9:22 I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

[@LaserFace23]

@@Wilkins325 I can sympathize with it being jarring, but the way something feels doesn't negate it being true. By logic alone, Mary's "yes" did save us, and to avoid that truth because it "feels jarring" does logically downplay her role. Saying "Christ's Crucifixion saved me" is also something that's jarring upon first hearing it, but it would 100% be downplaying what Christ did for us as savior if we were to avoid saying that to avoid offending people's sensibilities.

[@OurLadysTheology]

Marian prayer pleases God!

[@Aaalllyyysssaaaaa]

I'm confused, why do you say that sacrifice is part of what distinguishes worship that is meant only for God? Aren't we supposed to sacrifice for everybody, like imitating Jesus? like loving others sacrificially? I want to understand what you mean because maybe it will help me understand the Mass better.

[@Sil-Von]

It starts with remembering what worship actually is, think Old Testament, sacrificing animals (blood). New Testament there is still a single and perfect one time sacrifice (Christ at Calvary) the Mass is a sacred and commemoration of that one sacrifice made present before us as believers. We take part as if transported back in time (made present) and then partake in the deepest union with Christ by joining ourselves to Him through the Eucharist. From there we go into the world as living sacrifices unto the Lord, no longer giving the blood of animals but made alive through the most powerful sacrifice of Christ and our obedience to Him is a spiritual act of worship as well. In other words, without the mass, Calvary is not made present and there is no continual presence of the sacrifice of Christ which would mean there is no true worship aside from singing/praise which is a form of worship but not what either Testament describes as what is go be given to God.

[@Aaalllyyysssaaaaa]

@@Sil-Von ohh I think I'm starting to get it, so the sacrifice is made to God through Jesus and then the other times we love sacrificially it's a participation in that, but ultimately to God through Jesus... and ultimately in the Mass, which is the sacrifice at Calvary... thanks for explaining it so detailedly, helped me see the context and connect the dots. It's hard to think about haha. Like loving your family sacrificially is not worshiping them, it's worshiping God, so sacrificial worship is ultimately only for God. I hope I understand it lol. it feels like a concept that could give clarity to some confusing parts of my life if I understood it well, but sometimes I think I understand something well enough to get it clear and succinct in my mind, but in reality I just misunderstood it and lost the nuance lol. Thanks so much.

[@LaserFace23]

@Aaalllyyysssaaaaa I think it will help you to remember the Eucharist is really and truly the body and blood of Christ. The "sacrifices" we're talking about aren't just symbolic, when the Eucharist is consecrated, it truly becomes His body; we are brought directly to the foot of the Cross at every Mass, and partake in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus, the Lamb of God. So it's not just us performing acts of sacrificial love that constitutes worshipping God, it's that our sins are being forgiven when we physically unite ourselves to the sacrificial love of Jesus on the Cross. If that particular sacrificial element is missing, then it's not true worship of the Triune God, no matter the setting you're in or the prayers being made or the songs being sung. Hopefully this clarifies and isn't too confusing, haha

[@jamesfogerty3044]

this is kind o muddying the waters..to pray to for intercession can only be a “type of worship” to say that there is a difference is like the catholic concept of “mortal and venial sins”. If sin is sin, than worship is just that.(12 yrs parochial eduction)

[@bibleman8010]

looks like you failed the course

[@jamesfogerty3044]

@@bibleman8010 no i learned to think for myself, and to ask intelligent questions

[@jamesfogerty3044]

When the subject is “mother o God” Catholics are a little bit deceived. An example is the rosary . When you devote your life to the “veneration of Mary”if that is not worship, than nothing is.. and on the thought of “mother of God”really? God has a mother?(I know that catholic folks are kind of blinded on the subject of “veneration of the saints”. In many ways it is no different than “ancestor worship, “or praying to the ancestors..and especially blind on the subject of Mary

[@bibleman8010]

@@jamesfogerty3044 Jesus Christ is God. Women who bear people are called mothers. If the person a woman bears is God, then, consequently, the woman is the Mother of God. It’s that simple. Jesus Christ is God. Women who bear people are called mothers. If the person a woman bears is God, then, consequently, the woman is the Mother of God. It’s that simple. Now, dingbats claims that Jesus’ divine nature had no mother. This is true, of course, but the Church does not teach otherwise. We say that Mary is the Mother of God; mothers are not mothers of natures, but of persons, and Jesus was a divine person who took on a human nature. Was your mother the mother of your human nature? No, she was the mother of you. It is a person who is conceived and born, not a nature [only]. What person was born of Mary? A divine Person only--not a human person--but a divine Person who took on human nature. The one born of Mary “shall be called the son of God” (Lk 1:35), and “God sent his son, made of a woman” (Gal 4:4). [2] German reformer Martin Luther's (1483-1546) writings often address the subject of Mary: On the Divine Motherhood of Mary, he wrote In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such great good things were given her that no one can grasp them. ... Not only was Mary the mother of him who is born [in Bethlehem], but of him who, before the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God. (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 7, p. 572.) John Calvin (1509-1564) also held that Mary was the Mother of God It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor. ... Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God Ulrich Zwingli (1484-1531), wrote, on the divine motherhood of Mary: It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God Mt 1:18-25 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit. Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly. Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her. She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means "God is with us." When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home. He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus. So then you do not believe Mary carried the divinity in her womb and gave birth to it?....You believe rather that the divinity of GOD only came into Christ after he was born and seperate the divinity from the humanity of Christ(this is Nestorianism)?....Do you believe the word mother means source?...If so do you believe your mother is the source of your soul?...or is she your mother becaues she carried you in her womb and gave birth to you? The first Protestant loved and honored the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of GOD. Why haven't all of the rest of Protestantism followed his example in honoring her? Martin Luther wrote the veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart September 1522.The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart." [Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works (Translation by William J. Cole) 10, III, p.313.] "Is Christ only to be adored? Or is the holy Mother of God rather not to be honoured? This is the woman who crushed the Serpent's head. Hear us. For your Son denies you nothing." [Martin Luther

[@bibleman8010]

@@jamesfogerty3044 *Rosary is* identified with the *meditation* on the Fifteen Mysteries of Christ’s life praying, the Hail Mary’s and the Our Father’s. Mary does not take away from the redemptive work of Christ nor does she add to it. If you want proof that Christ's redemptive work is perfect look to exhibit A- The blessed virgin Mary. Nowhere in the Bible does it say not to honor Mary. In fact the Bible says the opposite. The Bible says we should honor those who God honors bless those who God blesses. And Luke 1:48 says that all generations will call her blessed. So we are just following the Bible in blessing and honoring Mary. The words of the first part of the Hail Mary are words addressed to her by the angel Gabriel and her relative Elizabeth. The second part is merely a request for the mother of God to pray for us. But most important of all: the whole point (the context) of the Hail Mary is not Mary but the incarnation of Jesus. Without the incarnation, we would have no Our Father. If Jesus had not taken flesh in her womb, we would necver have heard of her. So whenever we pray the Hail Mary, we are professing our faith in Jesus, the Word made flesh. As she said to Elizabeth, her soul magnifies the Lord; everything about her speaks of God. In summary: the Rosary is 65% directly to Jesus and about him. It is 35% honouring and requesting prayers from Mary, his Mother. 88% of the Rosary is directly from the Bible, 12% is from the wisdom of early Christians. There are two layers, the meditation layer and the physical layer.😘😘

[@hopefull61256]

The Davidic king argument is strange. Why would the heavenly heriarchy of the infinite God be based on this earthly structure ? To me it essentialy said David did it in the old testament so......

[@LaserFace23]

I'd agree that would be weird, but you've got it backwards, the earthly structure is based on the heavenly structure.

[@hopefull61256]

​@@LaserFace23but that was the claim in the video. That Mary can be rightfully called Queen because that model was seen in the Davidic kingdom. Which is a kingdom that was still flawed and fallible and Earthly. It's circular logic.

[@rodrigozamorano6611]

Overall, it's like the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it Drink." Every catholic can use any resource to back up Mary's Status but many non-Catholics will always decide to not follow along or just won't listen, what's worse is that you would think to at least show some respect to the blessed mother. but instead, you have many people Make fun of her, curse her, destroy any images or statues of her, and just completely say that she is a nobody. It's sad to have people think like that and especially many Christians who have "read" the bible and not even acknowledge Marys role in Reversing Eve's "No" in the Book of Luke. Overall if anyone is very interested in learning more about the blessed mother, please learn with an open mind and strive to at least learn something new.

[@robert-de-calvary]

Not to follow... who? Surely Christians follow Christ on Mary. Of course she was a special person but we dont follow Mary not did she save us.

[@Caralaza]

Christum, secúndum Lucam, dixit: "Scriptum est: Dóminum Deum tuum adorábis, et *illi soli* servies." Dicas autem nobis ut Maríam adoráre líceat? Nec Scriptúram præbuísti, immo hóminum verba implóras dogma neque præcepta tuéndi causa. Significatiónem perplánam verbórum Dómini commutáre mavis desinéndo Dei glóriam Maríæ trádere. Putásne tibi líceat imperánda neglegáre dúmmodo Maríam deam non esse ajas? Locútibus enim negas, acta autem fatéris cordéque eam deam finxísti... Utri, dícite, exaudiétis? Christúmne an creatióni isti Ejus? Equidem Deum tantum neque ullum alium præter Jesum Christum hóminem adorábo, sicut imperávit verbis Ipse suis ut fáciam.

[@Caralaza]

Sæpíssime dicébant tunc Romanístæ Maríam nos non adoráre, nunc autem nonnúlli, ut iste, confiténtur ut álios præter Dóminum adórent serviántque ac sóciis suis dicunt: licet libétque, dúmmodo deos illos non vocétis, et ea quæ Divínis pértinent, illis præférre licet, dúmmodo eis non sacrificiétis. Nihilóminus quædam sinant sacrifícia ut fáciant Maríæ aliísque sanctis, quamquam semper dicunt se illos quasi deos neque habére neque aspícere proptérea quod nullum sacrifícium faciátur...

[@jmferris542]

6:20 Matt rejects the idea that "God is this sort of 'attention hog' who is unwilling that others should participate in reflecting his beauty.." The problem isn't in Mary, or any believer reflecting the glory of Christ (2Cor.3:18). The problem is when believers lift up their souls to Mary in prayer and give her relationally what is meant for God alone. God is, in fact, an 'attention hog' and righteously so. "My glory I will not give to another", and "for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God". His jealousy is part of his holiness and therefore we must be very careful. I pray for more awe at who God Alone is.

[@bibleman8010]

The words of the first part of the Hail Mary are words addressed to her by the angel Gabriel and her relative Elizabeth. The second part is merely a request for the mother of God to pray for us. But most important of all: the whole point (the context) of the Hail Mary is not Mary but the incarnation of Jesus. Without the incarnation, we would have no Our Father. If Jesus had not taken flesh in her womb, we would necver have heard of her. So whenever we pray the Hail Mary, we are professing our faith in Jesus, the Word made flesh. As she said to Elizabeth, her soul magnifies the Lord; everything about her speaks of God.😜😜

[@jmferris542]

@@bibleman8010 I agree with your points on the significance of Mary: her amazing role in the incarnation, her great obedience, and her exemplary faith. But to then pray to her, to ask for her comfort, assistance and intercession, is to lift up your soul to someone other than the triune God. This is never done in Scripture, and is an act that breaches the exclusivity of the relationship God wants with us.

[@hry940]

Why does the Catholic Bible change the 10 commandments and omits the graven image commandment?

[@bigfootapologetics]

The Catholic numbering of the Ten Commandments predates the Protestant numbering. There is no omission. All of the Ten Commandments are there and always have been, but in the 16th century, when Protestants began translating their own Bibles, they re-ordered some of the commandments in order to differentiate from the prior Augustinian rendering. The Hebrew doesn’t have numbers, so neither is incorrect, but I prefer the Catholic grouping, which doesn’t lead to redundancy.

[@LaserFace23]

Who told you that the Catholic Bible omitted part of the Ten Commandments?

[@bibleman8010]

seems like your mistaken again ..........From the catechism😉😉OPEN any Catholic bible and believe your lying eyes PART THREE LIFE IN CHRIST SECTION TWO THE TEN COMMANDMENTS? Exodus 20 2-17 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. IV. "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . ." paragraph 2129 gee? its their as well in the catechism I guess your wrong beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . . "66 It is the absolutely transcendent God? who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."67 He is "the author of beauty." V. "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . ." 2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the? day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, by the way the? commandments are listed between in the Catechism between Par 2051-2052 its a heading Page

[@mellieg.7543]

​@@LaserFace23Ray Comfort says this all the time on his channel

[@mellieg.7543]

The ten commandments in Catholic Bibles is identical to Protestant Bibles

[@marybratz3785]

So, now it's ok to worship Mary, ok.

[@bman5257]

Dulia, not Latria.

[@DoctorDewgong]

Did you listen to what the video said or?

[@luzclara3855]

Either you didn't watch the whole video, or you didn't understand it.

[@robert-de-calvary]

@@luzclara3855 the video: we don't worship her but we worship her instead. Because you see there are two types of worship. The God worship and then other kind of worship. Obviously, worship is very different from worship so when you worship Mary it doesn't mean you worship instead it means you worship. Ok? Ok.

[@DavidTheAssyrian]

Jesus said "I am the life"... stop "worshiping" Holy Mary and maybe also stop calling her your life - that's blasphemy. "I'm saved by Mary" because she gave birth to Christ? By that logic I could say I'm saved by King David, or I'm saved by Abraham, or I'm saved by Adam? Or even further I'm saved by Earth - because that preceded Adam. Catholics are odd, the very fact that they want to say they worship Mary or they are saved by Mary is very telling...

[@DavidTheAssyrian]

@RafaMCazares what kind of question is that? No, it wouldn't be biblicical. No one's going to be saying "it's my life" in Heaven. They will be saying something like "Jesus is life"

[@bibleman8010]

the problem is you have no logic

[@DavidTheAssyrian]

@bibleman8010 God: "I loved you so much I sacrificed my son for you, ask anything in His name and I will give it" Christians: "ok thank you" Catholics: "let's go worship His mother, pray to her and claim we're saved by her" And I have no logic you say?...

[@bibleman8010]

@@DavidTheAssyrian CHRISTIAN we have to lie since we really aren't Christians it was a name coined By a Catholic Bishop to describe Catholics and we hijacked it so we wouldn't be called lying heretics😂😂

[@g_1673]

Mary is who she is because of God's love for mankind. Knowing we are deeply flawed, Jesus Christ--Son Of God--was sent into the world through--The Perfect Vessel, The Arc of The New Covenant--Mary... No other "New" Covenant will ever be. The next coming of Christ will be Judgment Day.

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

YOU: Jesus Christ--Son Of God--was sent into the world through--The Perfect Vessel, *ME: You contradict the Canon/Apostles who taught that Mary was a sinner* (Luke 1:48, John 2:1-5, etc) *who was under the Sin/Curse of the First Adam* (Romans 5:12) *and who was only chosen because she was a descendant of KING DAVID* -- SEE Luke 1:32, Luke 3:23-39 -- *the Messiah HAD to be the OFFSPRING of King David* -- SEE Jesus' words in Revelation 22:16 -- *the Messiah HAD to be the SEED of King David* -- SEE John 7:42, Romans 1:3, etc -- *the Messiah HAD to be the SON of King David* -- SEE Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:9, etc. *NONE of the guys that KNEW Mary and wrote the NT for us to follow, EVER taught that Mary was the "perfect vessel, holy, sinless, perpetual virgin, queen of Heaven, co-Redemptrix" -- *PETER taught that Mary's name is NOT part of Redemption/Salvation in Acts 4:12 -- PAUL taught that Mary was NOT part of the Redemption of Mankind in Romans 5:12-26, 1Corinth **15:21**-22, etc.* You are guilty of the sin of the Pharisees -- just inventing and adding false traditions/doctrines to the written words of GOD/Scripture -- which is making the ACTUAL words of God worthless in your life -- Matthew 15:1-9, etc.

[@adam9817]

Malachi 1:11 says, "For from the rising of the sun to its setting, my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering". This verse appears after God confronts his people for their worship, which he says minimizes his greatness. The Catholic church is the only Church who actually worships property on Sunday and fullfills this prophecy.... we don't offer up sacrifice to Mary or the Saints. Our priests only offer up the Holy Eucharist, the body, blood soul and divinity on the alter at Mass up to God. The Mass is true worship... so how can Catholics worship anyone else other than God??? The problem is that our protestant Christians friend don't understand what worship is. They praise and sing while the Catholics worship. If they didn't call Chist a liar then they would know how to worship properly...

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

The Biblical definition of IDOLATRY is found in Deut 4:16,19 -- it is to make statues of a female for yourselves (without God's instructions to do so) -- it is to serve this female entity -- and it is to SHACHACH/worship this female entity. *The Hebrew word SHACHACH/worship simply means "to revere, to bow down to, to humbly beseech, to pay homage as to royalty".* *Roman Catholics makes statues of the female Mary* (without God's instructions to do so) -- *RCs bow down in reverence to these statues of this female entity -- RCs humbly beseech/pray to this female entity. -- RCs pay homage and make shrines to this female entity as the royal queen of Heaven -- RCs serve this female entity by repetitively chanting her mantra/rosary.* According to the Biblical definition of IDOLATRY, Roman Catholics commit idolatry with the female entity called the queen of Heaven -- just like the OT Jews in Jeremiah 7:18, 44:15-30. *Just slapping the title "christian" on the queen of Heaven, does not make it Christian -- thats why NOT ONE of the guys that KNEW Mary and wrote the NT for us, ever call Mary the queen of Heaven.* What is the difference between a bear statue that you have in your home for decoration. VERSUS the statue of Mary that you have enshrined in your church ?? One is just a decoration that you think nothing about -- the other is a statue of someone you idolize and serve and pray to as if she had some power. The latter is called IDOLATRY

[@adam9817]

@TicketToRide-dj4vk no sacrifice offered to Mary, NO worship given to Mary. Sacrifice is offered up to Jesus at Mass, therefore only worship is given to God at Mass.

[@adam9817]

@@TicketToRide-dj4vk only Catholics worship properly

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

@@adam9817 YOU: NO worship given to Mary *ME: LOL. I just listed the definition of idolatry and "shachach/wordship" and showed clearly how Roman Catholics "shachach/worship" Mary -- try actually reading responses.*

[@TicketToRide-dj4vk]

@@adam9817 YOU: Sacrifice is offered up to Jesus at Mass *ME: There are no sacrifices in the Church; NOT to Jesus, NOT to God -- Jesus was the FINAL/last sacrifice for sins -- and when Jesus placed his sacrificed blood on the altar in Heaven, he gave all sinful Believers NEVER ENDING, PERPETUAL forgiveness of our sins* -- SEE Hebrews 9:12,26,28, Leviticus 17:10-11. *And when our Eternal High Priest Jesus placed his powerful offering on the altar in Heaven 2000 years ago, he made sinful Believers HOLY/sanctified and RIGHTEOUS FOREVER in the eyes of GOD -- so our High Priest Jesus SAT DOWN at the right hand of God because his work was FINISHED -- SEE Hebrews 10:10,12-14, 1Corinth **6:11**, Colossians 1:12-14,20-22* -- there is absolutely NOTHING ELSE that YOU can add to what Jesus has already done that will make you Righteous in the eyes of GOD according to Hebrews 10:14,17-18 -- NOT mass, NOT confessing every sin, NOT water baptism, NOT consuming Jesus' blood/flesh, NOT good works, NOT chanting Mary's mantra/rosary, NOT giving alms, etc -- *Nothing that YOU do has bearing on your spiritual eternal standing with GOD -- Jesus has done it all.*

[@dennistennis2225]

"Co-redemptrix"... Nahhhh.

[@martinmurry3]

Jesus commanded that we deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him. This makes us co-redeemers with Him. Our Lady is sinless and did this perfectly. The wedding garment is made of the people who got into Heaven by your suffering.

[@Sim0n-kv8jb]

So… Are you denying that she gave us our Savior with her yes to God?

[@desertrose0601]

Worship. Prayer. Veneration. It’s all creepy. We should only hold God on that level. Putting someone else on that level is idol worship. You can try and justify it all you want but it’s not a godly mindset.

[@jonasknox4368]

He literally explained this issue in the video

[@aloneinthedark99]

Ok prot

[@Peaceful_Gojira]

My brother/sister in Christ, go read the Ten Commandments: "Honor Thy Father and Mother." Ok? Now: who's Jesus's mom again? Oh right, THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY. And what happens when you break any one or several of the 10 Commandments? YOU'VE MORTALLY SINNED. That's not "Oh but Christ forgives me, because I love Him so much!" kind of sin....no, that entails you CONFESS it to Christ Himself through a priest and submit, asking for His forgiveness and mercy. If not, that's eternity, friend...ETERNITY. Not for a little while, not for a long time: ETERNAL DAMNATION. You understand WHY honoring Her is necessary? If not, I highly encourage you to dig deep into: yourself, the church history on Marian traditions, and the TRUE worship of the Catholic Church. When we come before the Altar, we are NOT partaking of Mary's body and blood in the Eucharistic and Pascal Sacrifice, no...we are partaking JESUS CHRIST'S body and blood. THAT IS WORSHIP. What do you also think is the case with the Israelites and Moses building the Tabernacle? They offered sacrifices to God, as WORSHIP. Christ came to be THE LAST Sacrifice so that we may partake in HIS body and blood, and through Him be given more complete fullness of God's grace. Sincerely friend, I pray for you. Repent, believe in the Gospel as Holy Mother Church, the Apostles, and Jesus Christ Himself teaches it (teaches, not TAUGHT, because they are in eternity with Our Father). And all the more: God bless you 10 fold. Pax Christi. Ave Maris Stella.

[@DoctorDewgong]

Time to throw our 2,000 years of Christian theology, boys! Why? Oh, a KZbin comment said it's "creepy"!

[@robert-de-calvary]

@@DoctorDewgong Rosary started in 12 century or so. Mary worshiping started in 3-4th century.

[@Oatmealyum]

Im a catholic, and I gotta say I disagree. Worship is definied as venerating a deity. If we worship Mary, thats making her equal to God, which is heresy. God is to be worshipped, Mary venerated as the Mother of our Lord and intercessor of our prayers, not God.

[@bman5257]

That’s just one definition of worship. Fr. Pine clarified what he meant.

[@Oatmealyum]

@@bman5257 Yeah, he did clarify what it means, but thats not the proper definition of worship, I love Fr. Grehory Pine, he is one of the priests that inspired me to consider priesthood. But this aint it.

[@bman5257]

@@Oatmealyum Actually it is the proper of definition of worship. Worship historically just meant honor. The common modern use of the word is worship as Latria, and so I agree somebody would be irresponsible in using worship in the old sense without clarifying in the modern world. But it’s simply a fact that worship historically meant venerate in English

[@Oatmealyum]

@@bman5257 Yes, but what it means today is not what it meant then

[@tomgreene1843]

Well we are created through Christ who put an end to death and revealed the Resurrection .....it keeps me going.

[@Jesusgirl00]

Good point with the cross too

[@miltrol3d77]

Where is the Christological value or centerness of calling her savior and mother of grace or queen of heaven? Rather it feels you use the position of mary as his mother to steal titles that are only attributed to GOD CHRIST.Stop worshiping idols . Dulia or high dulia are just semantics to support worship of idols.

[@ethancoppel]

Saying "if it were not for Mary I would be damned" is heretical. By that logic we should give the same adoration you give to Mary to literally every single person who lived during and prior to the earthly life of Christ. Just because God chooses a specific person to work through does not mean that she is a cause of salvation.

[@IsaacArellano-n4u]

I got the 600 like, can I get a free mug?

[@peterzinya1]

Save your pitiful excuses, here is what a catholic wrote...enjoy.... @LelaAukes 2 weeks ago Beautiful Mother Maria thank you to be with us. I love worship glorify you and your son Jesus our God almighty

[@PauperPeccator]

Yes. We worship. Right and proper worship to the Queen of Heaven, beneath God All Mighty. Which is still adequate praise of God, who made His Mother perfect beyond the perfection of any saint.

[@CheapsKate77]

No, we don’t worship Mary. We honor her. We worship God.

[@skitsschist11]

Sounds like the heresy of the Collyridians

[@nosuchthing8]

No we dont

[@MountieHoo1105]

Wrong. Worship actually requires a sacrifice of some sort whether physical spiritual or both. We do not worship Mary. Protestants have a low bar for what they call worship. Let’s start with that.