Do POLITICS "Belong" in Gaming?

[@An_Imperial_Guard.]

Does cancer belong in a healthy body?

[@Alteori]

😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Vasher-The-Destroyer]

Damn got us their.

[@BrandonScott-mi5pz]

GREAT AITEORI NO IDENTIFY POLITICS AND POLITICS IN GAMING

[@liamdude5722]

@@An_Imperial_Guard. Very cool and normal to compare identity politics to cancer

[@DgardsGaming]

@@BrandonScott-mi5pz This, Identity Politics is not same as say having politics.

[@StCerberusEngel]

Sonic The Hedgehog is a game about an animal who doesn't like seeing his animal friends turned into robots, so he rescues them. Is it somewhat related to environmentalism? Sure. Was that the devs' intention? Probably not...but maybe? But most importantly, Sonic never stopped dead in the middle of the game to point at the user and scream "You're responsible for destroying the environment and you need to stop!" Sonic is not a political game. It has some political/environmental allusions that can be interpreted from it. HUGE difference.

[@MarilynMonRover]

This is perhaps the most cohesive example ever given in the history of everything ever. Thank you.

[@numbuh1507]

You definitely haven't watched the final cutscene of Sonic Forces, then.

[@hunterkudo9832]

@@numbuh1507 Sonic Forces is a recent game isn't it? Original poster was talking about the inception of Sonic, it wasn't political.

[@ChaggiLagi]

+1

[@Eyevou]

I would say the themes of Environmental Degradation are fairly overt within the sonic franchise. Nature vs Technology but those are THEMES and not MESSAGES. Can they be political statements? Sure. The difference is that the devs aren't, strictly, forcing you to take a stance. It's presented to you as a fact of THEIR world.

[@Vercalos]

To quote another youtuber I recently subscribed to: "People don't hate politics in video games, they hate _activisim."_

[@FrostbiteDigital]

Master Samwise. Brilliant dude

[@fedoraspeaks8962]

So you don’t like people advocating, reflecting, or representing their political veiws in their media?

[@Vercalos]

@@fedoraspeaks8962 More like injecting political concepts that don't fit within the world they've built.

[@orkhepaj]

wokeism

[@FunnyMonkey781]

​@@fedoraspeaks8962 There's a clear difference between somebody exploring political themes from a explorative subtle manner and beating people over the heads with the messaging and strawmaning opposing positions. Its no different than the issues a lot of christian and radical rightwing media falls into.

[@Mac-eo4bc]

No Meta politics. If it actually makes sense within the story and is a part of the world naturally that's a different conversation.

[@BrandonScott-mi5pz]

EXCELLENT AITEORI WORK. YOU GREAT AITEORI

[@TheGameianDark]

This! Exactly This

[@ToxicVex267]

Honestly, gamers wouldn't oppose it if it weren't so forced, obnoxious, preachy, and condescending.

[@Rhino-Prime]

Exactly

[@LazySnoopy1408]

Correct. It's the virtue signaling identity politics that many people reject in games, not political themes themself

[@sempermilites87]

I remember hearing about one of the reasons why Cowboy Bebop is one of the greatest animes of all time. You can create any kind of fantastical or sci-fi setting. Make it as different as you can from the real world, but as long as you incorporate real life situations or emotions that your average person deals with in their every day life, it makes it much easier for the audience to relate to it and invest more of their attention and time to it.

[@iceprism367]

Yes, this goes for everything! As long as characters make their own choices in some sort of situation that I can understand from a human perspective it won't matter where or what those characters are. They can be toys, cars, teenage mutant ninja turtles, various types of robots, or abstract shapes for all I care as long as I can understand why the things they do matter to them and feel their emotions.

[@zzodysseuszz]

I think we need to differentiate between in-universe politics and METApolitics.

[@ThumperDumper-4428]

Example? I'm a bit confused.

[@TropicaIJay]

Metal gear solids universe has its own politics. It doesn't have modern California politics ​@@ThumperDumper-4428

[@Riseofziggy]

@@ThumperDumper-4428 gotcha prime example and I’m sorry if you don’t know these games take fallout new Vegas vs dragon age veilguard the former is in universe politics and the latter is META politics. New Vegas has lots of political factions in it each vying for control and each offering different endings and political structures such as democracy, dictatorship, monarchy, and libertarianism. The politics in new Vegas are very much in world based on the workings of the world even though they have concepts we can understand in modern politics the creators are not referring to any politics outside of the world of new Vegas in regards to current day. Whereas veilguard introduces modern day political pronouns such as non binary and includes other things such as top surgery scars even though it is a fantasy game. These elements aren’t part of the world of a dark fantasy video game they are social political issues referring specifically to current day politics. I hope this makes sense Id elaborate more but it’d get extremely long so sorry.

[@papapalps2415]

​@@ThumperDumper-4428 What, exactly, is difficult to understand...?

[@Kaito_Fox555]

​@@ThumperDumper-4428 in-universe politcs would be like the rise of the empire in Star Wars while meta politics would be LGBT representation and other real world talking points. For example, evertone is sick of hearing about feminism in star wars when that universe has always had countless examples of well written female characters

[@mickles1975]

"Politics have always been in games" Me trying to figure out if pong was communist or not.

[@RJiiFin]

Oof, Pong is the worst! The ball, ie. "a normal citizen" gets pushed around by the paddles, ie. government and with every push the citizen changes direction, is directed away from some issues in the government towards others. And, if the government fails to redirect the citizen, ie. hide the shady shit they do, the citizen is "lost" and becomes a point, ie. a statistic in the "yes, he did shoot himself in the head with a revolver six times, reload, and then shoot again" way.

[@Fireboon]

I can't understand how I haven't seen people bring this up, but Bioshock has always been one of the greatest examples of this. Bioshock is blatantly against unchecked Capitalism, but is NOT forced, or using meta politics, as there is no clear "good" or "bad" guy here really. there are two people with giant ego's fighting for their beliefs and for control of the city, and using the player as a tool to inflict their wills unwittingly. despite the blatant critiques of Capitalism, many people will still hardly even notice, as it is built into the very core of the games world and environment. it's not just in your face propaganda, it takes you through a hellscape and slowly lets you unveil what happened and what caused this hellscape to come about. the entire game is political, but no one cared, because it's a good, well designed game that even holds up in all regards many years later. compared to DAVG, where it forces things down your throat constantly, breaks the lore of the game repeatedly, and just doesn't care of have a cohesive narrative outside pushing the agenda.

[@roadent217]

No, but Tetris was.

[@emberfist8347]

@@Fireboon The critique isn't even about capitalism. It is actually about a philosphy known as Objectivism. The entire game is a critique of Ayn Rand's manifesto Atlas Shrugged. Part of the supposed anti-capitialism is that many of the beliefs Objectivism has are consistent with another political belief called Anarcho-Capitalism. Keep in mind both of these are *very* extreme philosphies about as extreme on the right side of the political spectrum as you can get before you completely loop back to the left.

[@RealWorldGames]

Was pac man political?

[@zzodysseuszz]

People who say “all art is political” only mean this when it’s THEIR politics.

[@terrnoisrp8894]

Agree, art is expression. Not all expression is political

[@TropicaIJay]

@@zzodysseuszz yup because they're the same ones to boycott something when it goes against their beliefs 😂😂

[@FrostbiteDigital]

Reminds me of that terrible Extra Credits video "ALL games are political bro"

[@trashbabie2252]

@@TropicaIJay That's the point of a boycott, though?

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@terrnoisrp8894 left wingers hate individual expression because it means risking the chance an individual may express views that don’t align with the authority lol

[@chrislaurent1137]

“All art is the reflection of the human experience.” Is that why Dustborn failed?

[@TheAllSeeingEye2468]

I wanna play that game just to see how bad it is but I don't want to pay for it

[@CoolManCoolMan123]

​@@TheAllSeeingEye2468 it's not bad. Its just Ubisoft phenomenona, where the game isn't bad. It's just nothing interesting

[@TheAllSeeingEye2468]

@@CoolManCoolMan123 well until I can get it cheap at a thrift store I'll have to wait

[@AlexeyPavlov-m8d]

If you delete dustborn you make a hate crime!! Ypu want to delete queer people 🤣

[@hugoshen1410]

@@CoolManCoolMan123 Doesn't just mean it's so boring that it isn't bad it's just boring?

[@KirbyIsCute]

Urgh, I hated that scene from Dr. Who. Dr. Who has been nothing but polite during the whole episode and these woman gang up on him for the crime of being a man. Like, what makes you so superior for being an asshole towards someone for no reason?

[@iamthedoctor8094]

plus he is the smartest being in the universe and was a woman in the previous regeneration

[@TheTwinkelminkelson]

And the inspirational music going on in the background, too. It was really bizarre, and there's no way to read that scene as anything other than outright malicious to an entire sex.

[@crawlingboy]

​@@iamthedoctor8094 that is not canon nor will it ever be Just horrible all around

[@galdalversgravekeeper5158]

Whenever someone say all art is political, I ask them what the politics behind painting like the Mona Lisa or Starry Night is. They never have an answer.

[@mylastfirstborn]

I was thinking about this during the video as well, glad I read the comments afterwards. To keep with the video game theme, what are the politics of, say, Mario Kart?

[@outerlast]

nah they'll just makeup some bs to answer that.

[@FabioUrbano-r7o]

For a great example play Fallout New Vegas. There's Freedom vs Taxes, Humans vs Robots, Cowboys vs Tribals, Women in war good or bad, Straight Gay Cannibal and Racist perks, Pacifist vs take out everybody etc...

[@galdalversgravekeeper5158]

@outerlast bullshit is only an answer if you accept it as one.

[@outerlast]

@@galdalversgravekeeper5158 that's not how they think. that's why they can say "all art is political" and other bs.

[@engirish1977]

Honestly I miss the days when people had the decency to keep their political views to themselves, be it Left or Right.

[@yurikendal4868]

Discussing policy and how it can affect was once a skill. Now there is no policy, just trash realitve tv. We have lost the abuility to discuss poitics.

[@maddogfargo3153]

@@yurikendal4868 Because to do so requires maturity, humility, and TRUE respect for diversity and inclusion. Most people screaming those buzzwords have NO IDEA what they actually mean or how to apply them in real life. They only know theory and indoctrination.

[@chandlerburse]

@@maddogfargo3153 ah yes maturity is shilling for china because anti wokeness like Alteori is doing? Sacrifice your views for a communist nation thats surface level agreeing with you

[@teamtundra2619]

Nah

[@theworld6710]

Since when? Im not sure such a time ever existed in gaming or otherwise. Political messages from both sides have always been a part of art, whether or not you understood it.

[@soulstarved4116]

I think it was critikaldrinker that said: It's not about having politics. It's how you present your politics. Bad politics force an answer on to you. Good politics ask the question and let you decide on your own answer. Edit: Not the one that I heard, but similar idea in (Critical Drinker: How Politics Ruined Hollywood) at Six-Fifty timestamp.

[@MikeyJBlakeJR]

I like that you're using the "critikal" spelling from MoistCr1tikal lol. He's a good guy! Both him and Drinker.

[@GamingProspector84]

You know it’s good political messaging when it gives you both or multiple viewpoints and doesn’t try to persuade you to a side. It just shows what it is and only asks you to think about it.

[@anniedong8751]

Genuine question, what do you think about the artists making fun of the big bad of Germany during WWII? The only example I can think of at the moment is a Tom & Jerry episode. It does express that he is a bad guy that should be spat on, if I remember correctly

[@longtsun8286]

Well said. Too many of those forcing politics into games, also demand we agree with them 100% on ALL SUBJECTS.

[@badasscrusader]

​@anniedong8751 that's a rare case of something political being universally agreed upon so people are ok with it being shown in a bad light,a modern example would be russia

[@ven7165]

The thing is that they're claiming all games have politics and defending having political stances and agendas in games, but if there were a game that pushed a political stance they disagreed with they'd explode in outrage over an action they themselves are doing. Literally one guy says something about DEI and they've already fallen into chaos.

[@Charon9a]

@@ven7165 They have no intergrity

[@theworld6710]

That’s not contradictory. All games can be political, that doesn’t obligate you to agree with all the stances or messages.

[@xxkankala1671]

What are they disagreeing on tho

[@Ashkihyena]

Within the game depending on what type of game such as the Metal Gear franchise. Real world politics though? Heeeeellllll no!

[@Solkard]

Weren’t Metal Gear stories based on real life political atmosphere though? Topics like the arms race, accountability of private military companies, or treatment of veterans. My objection is when political messages are forced into existing narratives where they did not or would not canonically exist.

[@CoolManCoolMan123]

@@Solkard probably hypocritical when Metal Gear is probably the most political games out there

[@AlexeyPavlov-m8d]

When wokie says political he means propoganda. Not ascing questions, not having a thought but just outright say to you where "right side of history is".

[@animezilla4486]

There have been plenty video games with real world politics in it

[@hugoshen1410]

@@Solkard It's more the political philosophy on why war are waged and not just preaching to you about war being bad or something. you might even agree with what some of these guys say but not on how they go about it.

[@NoahGooder]

flags in bio = "walk across the street and avoid"

[@godemperorofmankind5874]

literal pattern recognition which needs to be avoided at all cost.

[@NoahGooder]

@@godemperorofmankind5874 I want to swear it follows the same mental pathways as seeing a poisonous/colorful frog or such after being trained. The worst part is that it does exclude people who may actually be useful but at the same time its better to avoid taking a chance.

[@Blox117]

more like "send them to the ☁💀chambers"

[@chandlerburse]

@@NoahGooder avoid people who love mgs but then say they dont want no politics in games

[@Achieme]

I'm gonna say something similar on a post and it's rooted in "Diversity" I'm black and i dislike hearing ppl say that now because they act like we never had back in early 2000s. We had different characters of different races, ethnic back grounds etc. I grew up with movies/ shows like Rush hour, El tigre, Ben 10, Karate kid (jaden smith), Kill bill, Django, Badboys, Lethal weapon, Little Bill, Good times, That's so raven, Total drama. and tons of other shows where the characters of different races felt natural and authentic there was no mention of being diverse or making an IP for the sake of diversity but simply because they wanted to make an entertain show/movie

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

As a 90s kid, I remember a bunch of shows and movies where diversity was the norm. The difference between then and now is that back then, they were more subtle with their storytelling, unlike today, where it is beating into your skull to the point of ad nauseum

[@Achieme]

@@lancethefilmguy9392 100% i forgot to mention that, back then they were sutble and sometimes they'd have the character talk to the audeince about a serious topic that didn't feel preachy. But now they're just beating the audience over the head and not making the message subtle

[@quantum5661]

never had shit like cable tv but i sware to god tv was just better at talking about shit back in the 2000s and early 2010s, now its like the writers grew up on twilight and the actors grew up on tony stark

[@Xanegoh]

The word "diversity" has lost all meaning. Don't strive/desire for diversity now, but rather variety.

[@ltsiver]

I was born in the 70's, and these modern day activists behave as if we still have Jim crow. (Although one could argue they're bringing back jim crow)

[@YuriDSC]

Politics related to "modern" issues puts an expiration date on your product. The second these issues are out of the political discourse or people grow tired of them, your product will be harmed by them being mentioned. Not to mention that it removes you from the escapism part of the hobby. In othe words actual political topics like oppression, power dynamics, nuanced takes, in-game politics - good, modern woke topics like identity politics, preaching to the gamer/lecturing the gamer what is and isn't acceptable with no nuance, metapolitics - bad.

[@longtsun8286]

Well said.

[@shawnrankin6708]

Like dustborn made during 2016 political outcome, plus can't wait for dustborn 2 8 years from now

[@ChaosMind10531]

Its funny that identity politics have already been tackled properly a number of times in various mediums... But for them unless its preaching and sh*tting on the "cis" it doesn't count...

[@Laufbursche4u]

Really? Who plays 30 years old computer games?

[@tapiolautavaara9532]

@@Laufbursche4u Aren't Tetris, Breakout and Pacman more like 50 years old?

[@IchbinX]

The main issue with some people clamoring for DEI, is that it's coming from a bad place. It's coming from "their side" wanting to see the "other side" grovel before them. To acknowledge their every whim, and hang on their every word. They are filled with so much angst and hatred, that they need the world to kowtow to them, just to make it all better.

[@ChaosMind10531]

It has become the perpetual victim mentality... I suffered more than you, so I have more privilege to sh*t on everyone else, especially those who criticize how I do it...

[@firenze6478]

This. Its all about ruining the fun of their ‘Enemies.’

[@teamtundra2619]

@@firenze6478and it’s working I guess

[@DDIoop]

Hamfisted, In your face Politics that do not improve the enjoyment of the game, if so then big "NO"

[@teamtundra2619]

K

[@youtubevoice1050]

There's a big difference between EXPLORING/ discussing moral concepts and dilemmas, ideological ideas and political systems (which is what art does) as opposed to ONE-SIDED and therefore dishonest promotion of something that real political groups are advocating for right now (which is called propaganda). Real art, just like real news, should present the facts - not tell us what to think.

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

Yesterday, I saw someone on TikTok(of course) making the bold claim that conservatives can not be Final Fantasy fans because they would be associated with the bad guys of the universe. As expected, people called him out for his False Dilemma fallacy, and he just dismissed them as bad faith people. He made the comment that there are no such things as someone who is not a conservative or liberal. As an Independent, I told him that he was wrong about both statements. Personally, I think escapism is the way to go. Not everything in entertainment has to be a reflection of politics. And before anyone says the following: *"You're Just Mad Because It's Not YOUR Politics!"* No, it's because modern-day politics is very preachy and often distracts from the story it is telling. Unless it is part of the story, there shouldn't be any politics in the game, show, movie, etc. Nobody wants to be lectured on social issues from those with a moral superiority complex, which frankly is really weird. We're trying to enjoy entertainment and these guys want to control other people.

[@ChaosMind10531]

These people are aware that there are players who have political views outside of the Left and Right of the USA right??? And that there are people who are neither of those, even those who are in the USA...

[@ChaosMind10531]

Moral superiority complex with a perpetual victim complex to be more accurate...

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

@ChaosMind10531 That's what I said. He made a follow-up video saying that you are either a Republican or Democrat. He made the accusation that people who didn't see it that way were willfully ignorant due to "privilege." 🙄 I think he couldn't grasp the idea that people he politically disagreed with would enjoy a video game franchise that he was a fan of. He sounded like a Left Wing Conspiracy Theorist with his rhetoric.

[@emberfist8347]

@@ChaosMind10531 Not to mention this franchise isn't even made in the USA.

[@ZackarySchejbalCODBO2RGM2]

@@lancethefilmguy9392 I mean, I'm right leaning and I agree with you. I just want my media to be escapism, not to be lectured to. The only real way for these modern-day politics to fit into games and still be escapism is if those politics are done in an over-the-top satirical way with amazing gameplay that comes first and the message is second. A great example of this done right is the game Alex Jones: NWO Wars on Steam. It's a Contra-styled arcade run-and-gun game. A small game that's about 30 minutes long, but it's meant to a meme game. That's how you do one of those games. Dustborn and Concord do it absolutely wrong because they take themselves way too seriously.

[@TropicaIJay]

when we say we don't want politics in games, the usual suspects will say "Politics were always in games" Acting like they don't know what we mean. All they do is gaslight.

[@a.i.privilege1233]

Correct

[@McCaroni_Sup]

It's called being disingenuous. Which is all the left know how to do when they have zero argument. It's like whenever they say "muh pronouns have always existed" when you say you don't like pronouns (as in, the ones used by MiG-15 NATO Reporting Names). They know what you mean, they just refuse to engage with it and so they resort to their pedantry and semantics.

[@kiarime]

They love lie

[@Lostjayyhawk]

It's true. Think about something like game of thrones. We like politics, we don't want modern day politics in fiction

[@McCaroni_Sup]

@@TropicaIJay Lol, I'm really on KZbin's watchlist, they keep deleting my comments.

[@sidekickspam7574]

There's a guy named mentiswave who gave a really good advice on writing political ideologies in media: don't focus on the ideology focus on the principles of that ideology that way you don't alienate people and you could actually get them to agree with you. For example, if you are liberal one of your core principles is freedom, which many people believe in.

[@NightlyHold]

@@sidekickspam7574 There is also two other guys one channel called fee also talked about the right way to get political by taking the example of Arcane and also another person that made a video called audiences hate political activism not political art

[@MrSloth-sy3rh]

I love mentiswave he is wise

[@terrnoisrp8894]

“all art is the reflection of the human experience.” When in real life I can fight dragons and have a harem of waifus…..call me.

[@corryjamieson3909]

Have you considered becoming a waifu yourself while simultaneously touching le grass?

[@McCaroni_Sup]

@@terrnoisrp8894 Inb4 the world consists of bulletproof haloed schoolgirls that all carry guns, anthropomorphic animals, and robots.

[@hoppa_2184]

You could argue that heroics and the feeling of wanting to be desired is part of the human experience. Especially for men in this example. We want to be brave and heroic and want to feel desired and needed. Of course I wouldn't really call that "politics". It feels strange to compare these two as they are different by a large margin.

[@ChaosMind10531]

​@@McCaroni_SupI see a Blue Archive reference... I like... Oh hey, another game that tackles societal issues properly without being preachy...

[@McCaroni_Sup]

@@ChaosMind10531 *[Warning: Massive essay ahead. Read at the risk of your own time, lol.]* The general theme of Blue Archive - responsibility - is probably at least partially influenced by the state of South Korea, but it's universal enough that it can really apply to a lot of things. That's how social issues should be tackled in games - an examination of a base universal philosophical theme related to the social issue, and possibly coming to a conclusion. Another great example is Volume 3's Eden Treaty, whose thematic conclusion is that it's good to have faith. Its central theme of faith can be interpreted in a number of different ways; social trust, faith in the future, etc... but my favorite interpretation takes into account why the writers ironically chose Trinity as the focus of the story. Namely, religion. In a way, Volume 3 takes the concept of faith as applied to earthly matters, and in associating it with a school that is Christian themed and a paradoxical religious koan ("Can you prove the truth of those who have reached paradise?"), it makes a commentary on the nature of religious faith. Specifically, that even though there is no evidence that proves or disproves God's existence, it is better to have faith in him than not. That sometimes, you have to believe in things you cannot prove. The question then becomes, why? And the answer to that is evident in the way the game portrays the consequences of a lack of faith on the state of Trinity. Nagisa's paranoia and inability to put faith in others is what set in motion the central conflict of Volume 3. But more broadly, it led to social unrest and even more mistrust within the Trinity student body. And just as social trust is important to a peaceful civilization, belief in a higher ideal (such as God) gives meaning to life. A good religion is something people believe in to guide their own actions for the long-term betterment of society against their short term desires - the Divine Justification is just that; a justification. It only becomes bad if the tenets of the religion are themselves bad. In addition, no society is truly irreligious - any "atheistic" society merely adopts another ideology as religion. Which is exactly what you're seeing in the West with a "New Religion", and South Korea and Japan's cults. The aforementioned New Religion is the Frankfurt School of Thought, which is essentially nihilism cosplaying as revolutionary thought. Nihilism is the belief that nothing has meaning, and all is vain. Sound familiar? Vanitas Vanitatum, et Omnia Vanitas. That's right - when you lose a religion that gives you meaning, it's easy to fall into the one where the meaning of life is that it has no meaning. Just as Arius Squad did, when their meaning was taken away from them by Beatrice. And I'm not just saying this because I am religious. I'm actually agnostic; but funnily enough my analysis of Volume 3 helped bring me to the conclusion that religion can be a good thing, and it's often unfairly maligned by atheists. But my main point here is this: did you actually immediately think of all of this when you read Volume 3? The likely answer is no. Because the game doesn't shove it in your face. Like I said, it examines these philosophical themes, but it doesn't overtly relate them to social issues. It trusts players like you and me to piece it together, and while we might come up with different interpretations in the end, all of us come out having engaged with the story more actively. And the story itself was enjoyable even if you didn't necessarily relate the theme to anything other than a general commentary on human nature. Every political issue has an underlying philosophy under it, and THAT is what a story should explore. Because ultimately, it's something that will better resonate with readers than just telling them "X good Y bad" without actually backing up their argument beyond blatant caricatures. A game can give us an answer, but it has to show the solution. Otherwise - and I say this fully aware of the irony of doing so - it will be seen as preachy. In other words, it is better to explore political themes in a way that doesn't talk down to people or demand that they believe something, but rather one that merely brings those themes to their logical conclusions and derives a message based on that. Because at the end of the day, it's easier for the jury to believe the defense attorney who uses reason and logic to prove his defendant's innocence, than the prosecutor that just shouts "he's guilty" over and over.

[@The-Red-Baron]

I think the biggest thing, at least for me, is that audiences and people overall hate political activism. However, people love political art. Art and video games can be a reflection of certain things, and maybe even certain problems, however, in which way they tell that story does matter. If all a video game or peace of media does is preach to you about how good you one view is and that if you believe the other, that means you must be an evil person, it's going to turn off a lot of people. People hate being told what to think. However, if a video game makes you think in a creative way, maybe it opens you up to a new perspective you've never seen nor heard of before. If tells the story in an engaging way that is not preaching to you a certain way to think that. but instead, just share with you a certain way of how certain people think that can be enticing. I love it when video games make me think. But I do not like it when video games tell me what to think. When it comes to politics, it's a little bit simpler. No META politics. However, if certain politics fit in your world in a narrative way and overall enriches the story in his part of the world in and of itself, then that is a different conversation.

[@AntiSimpTrooper-175]

"Do politics belong in gaming?" Who the fuck starts a conversation like that i just sat down!?

[@jonsolo32]

* sits down at table "So... I'm non binary."

[@AntiSimpTrooper-175]

@jonsolo32 non binary? Well I identify as a attack helicopter with a shovel attach on the front

[@slaapt]

Same character: "I go by they/them now, but I refuse to use your actual name despite you repeatedly asking me to stop referring to you by way of insulting names."

[@AntiSimpTrooper-175]

@@jonsolo32 "I'm in the binary category. It's 175"

[@AntiSimpTrooper-175]

@@slaapt "That's because you've been getting the name wrong!-"

[@Sandyoo6026]

3:14 I don’t take anyone with a Palestine flag, gay flag AND trans flag in their username seriously 💀

[@fireemblemistrash75]

Would- I mean no, next question please

[@Alteori]

lol

[@Track_Tension]

Stan Lee said it best about this topic. We only did it to make our readers think, not to change their views. Beating your fans over the head will it will only my them leave.

[@ToxicVex267]

When discussing DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion), I believe that many gamers wouldn’t be as resistant to it if developers approached the topic in a way that feels authentic rather than forced, condescending, obnoxious, or preachy. The main problem is that developers often become so hyper-focused on DEI initiatives-like pronouns and taking stances against certain groups-that they neglect other crucial aspects such as story and gameplay. These essential elements often take a backseat, and it sometimes seems like they aren’t considered until the last minute. Whenever I hear developers claim that gamers dislike their game due to being prejudiced or bigoted, I point to successful titles like Mass Effect 1-3, Baldur's Gate 3, and The Walking Dead. All of these games feature a wide range of characters and have thrived despite their diverse representation.

[@richardtorruellas2370]

Don't forget Space Marine 2. The disabled black mans disability became a source of strength.

[@Tgirl-q4x]

Fr, as a queer person myself I hate dei so much. I like seeing queer representation in games but I like it being good characters that fit in the story not condescending forced dei bs

[@xChikyx]

OH, so that's what dei means...

[@angrydragonslayer]

@@Tgirl-q4x my perfect example for representation fitting vs not fitting is hammerlock and ava from borderlands Ava is a direct self-insert and is miserable to be around (first bl3 mod i saw was to mute her) Hammerlock, if you bothered to look, was coded from day 1 but he was more than his identity, he was himself.

[@FrogMob23]

@@ToxicVex267 DEI. Trying to appear not racist and homophobic by including or hiring a black or gay person in a game or to work on a game while still being bigoted. Also that word that means nothing because weirdos started blaming plane crashes and "non" hot woman being in video games.

[@torstwolf8742]

If i watch star wars i want to have star wars politics not "the current thing but in a galaxy far far away" and i would not like to see factions that are defined a way get changed for some "inclusivity". And especially don't tell me whats right. I have my own philosophical view.

[@Wolfspane]

Politics does have a place in games when done correctly that makes sense in the world being created and the story being told. Not all games need politics but politics makes some games better.

[@shadowdemonx258]

True facts

[@fedoraspeaks8962]

I’m not sure what politics you are referring to. Star Wars last time I checked didn’t have a character or reference to any mainstream political parties

[@quantum5661]

one great example of politics in fiction is how senator palpatine democratically orchestrated the fall of the republic, cause lets be honest that wasnt an overt military coup so much as a political one

[@shadowdemonx258]

I do enjoy the politics of star wars

[@boggart159]

​@@fedoraspeaks8962my guy what? The senators the separatists dilemma? Did you watch Star wars with your eyes closed

[@jamet3405]

Politics has a place in video games. Unfortunately the politics inserted these days are rarely nuanced and more shoving them down the player's throat.

[@alexandercampbell5136]

In video games, I like my politics fake and only tangentially related to the problems I face in reality... Same with movies and tv.

[@jj2king]

I would like to think these kinds of conversations dont exist and just play my games like i always have normally been doing since i was 6 years old

[@MajorSmurf]

The problem I have with a lot of these people who say all art is political. Is that for the life of me I can not get them to not offer a definition of what politics or arts is. To be honest I think they struggle with all the words in that statement. Politics is one of those broad terms that they just slap on going AHA yes this is politic and it can be a screenshot of a dead rat in a game. Like that's not the game being political, that's you putting some strange explanation into it in an attempt to delude yourself into thinking it's making some statement about some political matter when its done no such thing. Now for those of you who don't understand when we say leave politics out of games, we do not mean you can't have politics in the game. You can make a story about a super capitalist, socialist, monarchy or whatever else nation where it's horrible to live and whatever else you want to say and do. BUT most stories use that as a backdrop to talk interesting philosophy, morality, characters and so on. They don't just slap a Trump parallel in and make him a laughing stock just because the creator got his panties in a twist that he saw a mildly rude tweet one time. THAT IS WHAT WE MEAN! If you can't bring forward some interesting discussion about human nature or whatever else than your story is nothing more than wasted words on a page. Give me an insight or worthwhile POV, don't just have your story be about forcing others to read or play through what is clearly your personal therapy/struggle session. Also try to avoid being bias, a story can show the positives and negatives of political issues and leave it for the reader to decide or make their own call on whether the actions taken were acceptable or not. Like for instance when a nation goes to war, what is the breaking point of when that should happen? How does that influence voters? How do other in world figures and characters react to that? What steps does your stories country leaders take? You can have characters who hate war, see it as the only recourse and a necessary evil, those who have been through war previously and want to run for the hills or maybe try to assassinate X leader to stop it. You can make it a worthwhile discussion on the nature of war and humans. If your story becomes just lol war bad or forcing your story to present only one POV or another in a overly negative light that is often bad storytelling, you should try to stay natural giving valid reasons why a character or plot point is happening. Characters should make choices on what they see as the correct decision, not the author breaking their spines so they suddenly change mid plot beat.

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

You said this perfectly. 👏👏👏👏

[@LrdBxRck]

Yes and No good storytelling does require some level of political view points to be given. The problem comes when it is toxically pushes it's ideas at the expense of the story. The player is being told what to think vs coming to their own conclusions.

[@analien4813]

It's funny they use fallout as an example given the creator said it's not about capitalism but about war lol.

[@lackofreason722]

to be more specific it's about how humans will always inevitably get into conflict with one another and cause wars. Hence the phrase, "War Never Changes".

[@FabioUrbano-r7o]

Fallout new Vegas people are still debating what ending is best in a post post apokalipse.

[@Gwa-Senpai]

@@analien4813 Pre TV show, Yes. Post TV show, not anymore sadly, it has been rewritten to be about capitalism.

[@de_vix]

Honestly these days if I see more a flag or pronouns on someone profile I just view their opinions in a more in depth manner if that makes sense

[@Fr3ddyM3x]

Anything can belong in video games because it’s art medium. It’s like the weirdos who deny anime can’t be political but then watch One Piece, Bleach in and Naruto.

[@SdM45]

Politics come and go. Good stories last much longer. As an example, consider the works of Howard Phillips Lovecraft. Make no mistake, he was extremely racist and xenophobic, even by the standards of his time(1920's-30's), but his stories have left an indelible mark on contemporary science fiction/horror. Admit it, you're all familiar with the name "Cthulhu," even if you're unsure how to pronounce it.

[@redreaper3065]

From what I've heard he seemed to get better about his beliefs towards the end of his life right? Also the cat was named by his grandfather? Saw that somewhere too. Correct me on anything I got wrong

[@quantum5661]

im gonna be honest that cat's name is so fucking out there i cant help but laugh my ass off at that nonsense

[@SdM45]

@@redreaper3065 Yes, his grandfather named the cat. And he did mellow out a bit towards the end of his life.

[@bartofii]

There's 2 ideas of "politics" people need to understand... there's the insertion of modern day political subjects that people are advocating for IRL... and then: "the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power." This latter bit could be entirely fictional and set up as a narrative plot point within the IP and not just the direct tie in for real world issues. People who are eager to insert the modern day politics will try and conflate the two to be synonymous because "politics is both" or whatever but it's really not. It's like pointing out that anyone with a lightsaber is a Jedi in star wars... people not paying attention won't care but there is a very obvious distinction once you look into it. IMO, you can do what you want with your material but at the very least it needs to make sense within the narrative. a major problem with a lot of modern media is that they're using established IP and inserting some weird out of nowhere material that is basically just modern politics disguised as that thing you like and entirely forgets what the thing was in the first place.

[@RayRahu]

They have garbage politics, morals, attitudes, etc., and thus, produce garbage art. If they were not garbage people, it wouldn't be so. Input; output.

[@natto4now]

It really seems like all the intellectual philosopher scholars on twitter that say "everything is political" forgot the difference between something being a statement on something And Something being a about something Its almost like theres a name for that in media, yeah its call THEMES, thats why theres a difference between something like dustborn where it just saying statements about politics/race/sexuality/bigotry, basically a mouth piece for the person working on it say what they want While something like metaphor has themes of politics/race/sexuality/bigotry an letting those themes speak for themselves

[@lancethefilmguy9392]

Exactly 💯

[@celtecgames3821]

Ive thought of this a decent few times. Id say its similar to movies and stuff; If it makes sense/adds to the story well, Good. If its just stuffed in there with no reason/divides (i.e. contentious modern politics), nah. TL:DR, money is money. U buy thing, u want good thing. Edit: i just realised I somehow just summed up the entire video lol.

[@garnetbristan9984]

5:57 makes literally no sense. This implies that if you loose a loved one or are going through a break up that means that all art should stop reflecting romance. When in actuality if a person can’t handle romance right now, then they maybe don’t watch the romance movie? 😂 Same goes for politics.

[@TheOfficialPatriarchy]

Most people are fine with aspects of general political intrigue in entertainment. What we don't want is tiresome current year activism that is irrelevant to the story being shoved down our throats when we are decompressing at the end of the day after being exposed to it everywhere else. This has been said 1000 times so at this point people acting like they don't know the distinction are being deliberately obtuse.

[@stevenalvarez2924]

So for those that don't know the difference between "no politics" in games vs "we don't want *your* politics" in games. Metal Gear Solid 1 on ps1 did for a fact tackle politics. It wasn't about how environmentalism is good or bad. Nor was it about identity politics. It was a deep rooted truth about War, from which the soldiers themselves are left scarred and treated as tools for political parties. Yet even then, another message in there was how each soldier decides whether or not that scar/trauma is worth the gains they aim to get. It wasn't about how the US military complex is just the big bad or the government is the big bad but how the soldiers themselves should be treated better. How war scars everyone involved. Yet today you'd see stories about how pro-war is a good thing no matter the consequences involved with it. Almost like these people learned NOTHING from the Vietnam War.

[@nathanielenochs1843]

The only people that are constantly telling literally everybody on social media that "all art is political" are either children that have been groomed or actual groomers themselves

[@MoonRose-Valentine]

Ah yeah, gotta love it when people throw up words like "grooming" when it doesn't fit. I agree not all art is political, but art is a political foundation due to its nature to express more than what just words can put out. Intact political divissions used art as well as art was used to push rebellion against tyrrany. To turn your head and say art isn't political is to be willfully ignorant especially since simple self expression is a most basic and simple form of politics. The biggest issue in today's gaming is companies are putting in the elements lgtbq+ gamers want in the rpgs but also choosing to poorly write it in when said issues come up because no matter what they're going to still be making money off of it. I actually liked veilguard, yes it's mid in terms of some dialogue, but the only thing is I'm willingly choosing to ignore a certain npc's quest because of how poorly they're written, I do like everything else about the game especially it showing that overtime since orgins things have slowly gotten better in terms of the blight not really being a problem..well until a certain dude thought he should fix what didn't need fixed lmao

[@harristhesecondcomin]

​@MoonRose-Valentine "Hah...nobody likes Veilguard."

[@ariboo13]

i love politics in games but i just want it to be done smartly. politics can help stimulate some of the best worldbuilding in fiction (got, dune, lotr). but you have to put a twist on to it. recently movies and games have tried putting our politics into the games but they aren’t subtle and it’s too preachy instead of diving into the complexities behind why the world is that way and why the characters fall into the spectrum of those politics.

[@NoahGooder]

my demecat answer would be "depends on the politics" my real answer is "hell no unless the game takes place within a world that said politics would make sense and not destroy the story."

[@naxmaxJK]

I don't think politics are the problem, the problem is it being so blatantly shoved in your face for a blatant side to the point the game is just an advertisement instead of an actually fun game. Not even gonna get into the whole main character mindset so many of the behind the scenes and leadership role think they DESERVE which no you're not entitled to you can't be a kojima, a sakurai, you have to earn it. You master your craft and you'll earn a master's title. They wanna be Anakin but without the justification to any degree.

[@doubt2022]

Everything _can be_ political, but doesn't have to

[@dragondefender7763]

Yeah im writing a book. Its a fantasy novel. A lot of people read or watch or play things for enjoyment and to just escape reality for a few minutes. I don't want to shove in real world political issues or what not. I have things in the world thats a political issue. For example a common trope that I am using, magic is banned in the kingdoms of my world. That makes sense for the world, and its something that the reader can decide their stance on. What wouldn't make sense, is persay putting a pride flag in a fantasy world, featured in medieval times. Its this double edged sword. If they put politics in, it has to make sense to the world and story, without shoving the ideology in the readers/players/viewers faces. I write, to tell a story, not to spread a political message. I think if more game creators and movie creators did that, we would have some truly awesome storys and games.

[@unamless9229]

No, thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[@fifinjir5220]

"All art is political" has a fatal flaw that can be shown by analogy. 1. "Tables are made of trees." 2. "Chairs are made of trees." 3. "Therefore, chairs are made of tables." Art and politics deal with a lot of the same subject matter, but they are not the same thing. So if art is the chair, this statement tears art down by saying that art about tables is the same as art about trees.

[@Anyone00TZ]

Helldivers is based in Bush Jr. War on Terror era political parody from a European leftist perspective, but times change and the Helldivers setting unintentionally gave people in the US that complain about the Deep State along with (more relevant) Eurosceptics a near perfect analog/parody in Managed Democracy: I think the devs realized that at one point then decided not to go hard in the paint on modern day meta-politics. The other problem in modern day, Western AAA (or even AA) gaming is that when they get political: it's all the same politics in the most ham-fisted, one-sided way (which is the same politics you get proselytized to as part of mandatory employee training often).

[@emberfist8347]

Not really based on Bush Junior it is based more clearly on Starship Troopers and the film which predated Bush.

[@Itsaroi-jm8xg]

I believe that's the answer, "the art of subtlety has been lost".

[@alexbrinzan9061]

I dont want politics shoved down my throat .

[@douglaspope-gz1eq]

Keep politics out of my games please

[@unamless9229]

it's different than polotics being the FOCUS of the game, when it is merely used as worldbuilding is aight.

[@Vic2point0]

It's sort of the difference between asking, "Would you like politics along with the video game we're selling?" and asking "Would you like a video game along with the politics we're selling?"

[@Echo-bp7oc]

Politics anywhere is a cliff, once you fall off it is difficult to climb yourself out of it. And that is anywhere not just games

[@longtsun8286]

Well said. Too many of those forcing politics into games, also demand we agree with them 100% on ALL SUBJECTS.

[@genericweeb7300]

I love political art. But only when it works as commentary, satire, parody, etc. I hate political art that antagonize the "opposing group" and pander to certain ones. The ones that beat you over the head about its "superior" value and message, and the arrogant authors act like those values will objectively solve all of society's problems.

[@gorasul12]

Im playing W40k Rogue Trader at the moment, it has tons of politics in it but its in-game politics, they are there to reflect the games world not our real world.

[@MikeyJBlakeJR]

Yo Alteori, has anyone ever said your voice sounds a lot like the voice actress Ashly Burch? She's done a lot, but in gaming, she plays Tiny Tina (Borderlands), Ray (Fortnite: Save The World), Aloy (Horizon series), and countless others. You specifically sound like her Ray portrayal. You should consider doing V.O. work!

[@FrogMob23]

I remember watching your Jurassic World and How to Drain Dragons videos a while back. It was a weirdly important part of my early development, got me into Sci Fi, specifically the Jurassic Park and Jurassic world movies. Honesty, im not sure how it went from that to this.

[@triggerfairy4070]

Politics can be in the gaming narrative, it shouldn't be in the process

[@MichZilla90]

Exactly

[@Wade978]

You can use vegetables to make a great burger, but you can't use the burger to push vegetables You can use political ideas to tell good stories, but you can't/ shouldn't use the stories to push the politics The main goal is to entertain and provide escapism. That should always be the focus.

[@maverick9357]

The thing is tho politics always been in gaming. But now its always about pushing a message or hating another political side ect. Like look at Western games with politics now look at Eastern games with politics and you'll see the difference. Eastern games with politics dont make you feel bad for being a different political side or hate you for it or to force their beliefs on you. Unlike Western games do

[@quantum5661]

on the bright side, its so shit that i wholeheartedly expect the worst of it to implode the new growth to finish coming in before 3035. which yeah, that is a long time, but not quite so long when you realize AAA games take like 4 years in the oven. the best is yet to come my friend.

[@Rukako122]

I like politics in art, it can be good. FF7 was a very good game at the time. Issue is, it hasn't been good for a long while now. Also, I don't know if it's the kind of saying that exists everywhere but where I am from we say "to much of [a thing], kills [the thing]" and here it sounds right because too much politics does kill politics. Good video. Where's the thumbnail's art from tho ? Asking for a friend.

[@GOKUBLACK-st5jw]

I think the thing that people need to understand, is the difference between Activism and Politics. What we’re seeing a lot of today in video games is Activism. Politics being present in games should make you question the ramifications that any given action or choice, at any time. Can and will have on the world that find your self in (I’m mainly referring to RPGS here.) The issue with Activism is that it usually (currently in games, mainly RPGS) forces you to have and share an opinion that you may or may not entirely agree with. I’d like to sit here and imagine that, that doesn’t sit very with people. Especially the hardcore fans that may have to wait 5-10 years for the next entry of their favorite game’s.

[@DoubleO88]

A good artist: Uses politics to help craft their art. A activist: Uses art to share their politics. The problem is the last word isn't art, therefore it's not the goal. Hideo Kojima made a very politically driven game in Metal Gear Solid but politics weren't his no.1 priority when making that game, it was making a great game with an engaging story, he used politics as a tool to achieve his end goal of a great game not used gaming as a tool to achieve an end goal of politics.

[@falcongamer58]

The thumbnail ☺️

[@CramdoLP]

If you tell a story, you need truth to give meaning to your artistic knowledge. Truth connects us to reality through the artistic knowledge itself. And politics is also based on truth. At least it should be. If you have politics in your game, it can help you tell your story closer to the truth we all live with. But if the politics are somewhat removed from the truth, they connect with people, and the stories feel less meaningful.

[@fabianbiere5653]

Never if made by unhinged activists instead of actual skilled devs and narrative designers.

[@axelwulf6220]

Short Answer: HELL NO!!! Why do you think we play video games, to get away from that crap

[@DKGDamien]

Banger Thumbnail

[@thegreatgmantheguy]

The Answer is Yes, Politics belongs in any game with any story containing moral expectations for any large or small group of people. If you disagree, consider narrowing your definition of "politics" to the point where you might as well use a different word entirely.

[@KingOfTorture_05]

Can’t lie i want an actual political game that questions morality kinda like red dead but more of a serious topic but have it well done

[@Deathscythe91]

when most people game they want to escape the world not have its bs follow you around

[@chocolover1998]

No keep that shit out of my games i just want to play without bullshit in my way

[@FrogMob23]

@@chocolover1998 I guess you will have to stick to just playing games like Minecraft, Teraria, and (insert something) simulator.

[@chocolover1998]

@FrogMob23 I bought skyrim anniversary edition henry stickmin collection half 2 dbz sparking zero ultimate edition ultimate marvel vs capcom 3 tf2 and yugioh master duel

[@xixon__]

Politics in videogames is welcome. Political activism in videogames is not

[@somethingsomethingryona8301]

What the hell are you waffling about.

[@patrickdees5256]

Warhammer 40k has politics. It's a satirization of real world politics, religion, etc. Especially in it's early years. But people love it not because the politics, but the people who inhabit the universe; and the struggles they have to go through just to survive in a universe that HATES them.

[@TropicaIJay]

It's funny everyone who got mad at him for saying that all have the same bio and flags. Its like a uniform for them 😂😂😂

[@polarbear3262]

It's even more funny that it is a combination of Palestine flag and queer, lesbian and whatever else. I would love to see them go over there and publicly say they are gay.

[@MyShiroyuki]

Metaphor:ReFantazio is an example of in game politics done right. A lot of it was the same stuff they espoused but it fit the world and wasn't preaching at the player.

[@Joji047]

Anyway what the thumbnail source?

[@kmking2000]

You explained that very well ma'am. I agree with your position on how modern day politics or activism should not be placed in games or entertainment. Keep up the good work!

[@DeathsNitemareShepardOfHope]

Nope. Unless it's meant to be a political game, that's the only time I'll put up with it. Even then it's a game that I'll probably ignore, just like so many other recent games. 😅👍

[@NoobTheNewt0987]

“All art is political” mfs when I draw them getting sacrificed to Elmo:

[@troperhghar9898]

When anyone complains about politics, its only ever when the products politics disagrees with them

[@richardtorruellas2370]

And yet overtly right wing and religious games exist and do bad as well. The only difference is that the creators don't call everyone bigots for not liking their game.

[@emberfist8347]

No when it is hamfisted it sucks.

[@yazanus4530]

3:39 this Upside-down Triangle refers to the videos and combat footage made by the Palestinian's freedom fighters. When they highlight a tank or a person or multiple, they would use this triangle, and it became a signature for them aswell

[@DANIELH013]

Short answer: No Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[@FabioUrbano-r7o]

If you think that play Fallout New Vegas for a great example.

[@stargazerkawaii]

I like art that makes me smile. Politics doesn't make me smile.

[@Spelling-ch2]

I'm very conflicted on this issue. On one side, games like undertale helped LGBTQ+ people feel more accepted, but on the other hand, some games promote hate against straight people trying to be "inclusive,"

[@lackofreason722]

It shouldn't be conflicting, I never thought of Undertale as for LGBTQ+ people nor did I feel like I got preached too and got told what the RIGHT thing to believe in is and THAT reason alone is why the "politics" in that game isn't like the politics in Veilguard.

[@quantum5661]

honestly its been super weird seeing the rise of that in media. one thing that took me really off guard lately was seeing some people in one of my fandoms argue that its okay to make the boys gay but that its somehow morally harmful to make the girls straight. like wut??? its the same action. these people fighting over if the glass of water is half full or half empty, but i know its a 1:1 ratio of air and water regardless of opinion. okay that might have been a bit abstract for a youtube comment but you know what i mean.

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

Whenever political issues are in games or media, it still has to be good and not in your face

[@infinityquartz4744]

its videos and comment sections like these that make you wonder where the schools are. Are we acting like politics and art are a new thing? Sure there are games and art that aren't political but politics is a huge part of a ton of art and movement. star wars is very political, green day was very political. Just because you get offended by pronouns in a game, doesn't mean that art being political is this awful thing no one wants

[@OM3GA-Z3RO]

Palestine Flag (Free Palestine), LGBT+ Flag and Trans Flag Yeah, I hate meta politics in my games, I love politics that are done right, Metal Gear Solid being one of them. But putting in politics that is meant to send a message in current times that ruins my escapism. So real answer No for meta-politics Yes for philosophical and satirical politics