Do we know Frank Castle: A Punisher Retrospective

Frank Castle: Simplistic killer or ... complex killer? Well, I believe The Punisher is more than what he seems. The comics and most adaptations bring out sides of him that belies the simplicity most people conjure when they think of him.
Oh Death, Jen Titus: • Supernatural - Oh Deat...

[@rubenhinze7695]

I loved that final metaphor. If Matt Murdock is the Devil, Punisher is the Grim Reaper.

[@MrDp115]

The Punisher is one of the most misunderstood characters, even writers at Marvel alot of time don't understand the character.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

I know, I think it is the simplicity hiding the depth and a lot of people miss that there is any depth to be had. Another reason I adore Garth Ennis' work.

[@mueggsy]

I was talking with my friend about the Punisher earlier, and she and I agreed that being a male fan is a yellow flag (since you have to take a minute to determine if they like his character or want to BE the character), wheras with women Punisher fans I'm always interested in their takes on him right out the gate. Needless to say, I became immediately intrigued when your voiceover started! I also loooooove Matt and Frank's relationship, their interactions boil themselves down to their core essentials and it's fascinating every time. Their interactions also ring of a divorced couple lmao. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that convo between them on the rooftop in DD season 2 is my favorite dialogue exchange on screen. Its just *chef's kiss* 😙🤌 On that note, I'm inclined to agree with your proposal that Punisher season 1 & 2 would've been better set prior to Daredevil. I like the show just fine, but I can't deny it would thematically flow a bit better. All the same, I can't deny I enjoy the softer side of Frank in the show, even if it deviates from the comics. I wasn't a big fan of his fling with the woman at rhe beginning, but I like his relationship with Amy and Micro's kids. I think his fatherly side that peeks out is an interesting juxtaposition with his, well, everything else side. Regarding your recurring point about Frank always being right in his mind, I agree with you, but I wish we'd seen more exploration of this. Remember that episode near the end of season 2 when Billy tricked Frank into thinking he killed a bunch of innocent women? Before Frank realized he didn’t actually kill the girls (a total cop-out imho), the man was like, outright suicidal. I believe that if Frank ever screwed up and killed an innocent civilian, he would take himself out because in his mind, there's no longer anything separating him from the people he punishes. I think the only reason we haven’t seen this in the comics is because then, well, no more Punisher. Anywho, I found this Punisher essay after seeking them out following the pic Jon Bernthal posted on his insta today! What are your thoughts in his return in DD Born Again? My hopes and fears are equally high 😅 You just got yourself a new subscriber! Off to watch your Jason Todd essay 🤙

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Happy to have you as a subscriber. I am not holding out a lot of hope for Born Again, especially since they already did Born again pretty much perfectly in season 3. And bringing Kingpin back just destroys Matt's brilliant final victory that he beat Kingpin without destroying who he is as a person. It just starts the cycle again and proves Matt wrong. But hey maybe marvel will finally get something right since endgame.

[@GHOSTRIDER373737]

As one of the biggest Ghost Rider fan out there, I felt like it's an obligation for me to correct the final parts where the penace stare doesn't works on Punisher, it was fundamentally wrong on the writer's part (Marvel Now's Thunderbolts was absolutely atrocious) and had been correct later in Punisher's own series, he got the stare again and this time he vomited. Penace Stare is a divine power that burns people's sin regardless if they felt guilty or not.

[@LordPhantomWolfe]

Also even though Frank doesn't feel guilt or remorse over what he does to his enemies it doesn't mean the guy feels no guilt at all. From how I see it the guy is riddled with guilt. It's just he has no guilt for killing. My perspective of the character anyway.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

I have to admit I've mostly only read a few early Ghost Rider comics and even then it was years ago so I'm not best placed to comment. Just from my limited perspective it did make sense. Morality/good and bad is often a matter of perspective and circumstance (of course I do believe there are SOME universal moral truths). So it did kind of make sense in my head that the penance stare would work on the KNOWINGLY guilty. But there is still a lack of sense now that I think about it. Even if Frank felt no guilt for those he 'punished' surely there most be SOMETHING he feels guilty about. Anyway that's my two cents but you'll know better than me. :)

[@GHOSTRIDER373737]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 If I may recommend only one or two of them, I think the 2006 runs of Ghost Rider issue 12 & 13 World War Hulk tied in are the best Ghost Rider comic I ever read. It had fantastic art and compelling story showing that highlights the difference between Johnny Blaze and Zarathos.

[@chuckmann7127]

You should check out Punisher Vs. The Marvel Universe. It's basically like 28 Days Later but with Marvel Characters. What's really interesting is that despite the world being full of cannibal monsters that enjoy their brutal acts, Frank is just as bad. Even though he caused the plague, he has little remorse and lives just to kill all the infected; even if that means turning away other survivors because they will get in the way of his hunt.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Sounds pretty good I'll give it a go.

[@dizzykwalla1198]

Made me nostalgic. I grew up mostly with the 90's comics, also the first movie, second movie, and the tv show. You put it all together so elegantly. A great video!

[@josephboechat6020]

2:06 That analogy was so funny kkkkkkkkkk

[@Temple-27]

He's so similar to Jason Todd, unfortunately...both could've been so much more, rather then mess their own lifes with vengeance.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

I see what you're saying but in my opinion, ( I don't agree with their path in life but) they strangely wouldn't be themselves if they didn't choose the path of vengeance. That's the real tragedy. :(

[@Temple-27]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 Yeah i get it, i just wish both of them would be actual heroes who moved on from vengeance and started helping people in such a way that innocents won't ever have to experience the stuff they did, instead of becoming a walking machine of death, don't get me wrong they're still good characters, i just wish they would be actual good people.

[@Chrisalot]

@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 There’s a group of criminals the Punisher should go after more than any other… they’re called the police. Just ask the average black man in America about them. I don’t see any Punisher stories really going after corrupt police officers and more importantly going after corrupt police institutions that essentially act no different than literal gangs or rogue militarized police states that are hardly ever held accountable. What better Punisher story could there be than the Punisher punishing one of the most corrupt institutions in American history that upheld and supported slavery, Jim Crow, police brutality against and the murder of innocent black people, and the world’s biggest prison industrial complex?

[@UltraVioletKnight]

They're similar but the difference is that Jason actually wants to help people and is a utilitarian, while Punisher just kills because he feels his targets deserve it. Jason tried to control crime in Gotham to make it safer, Punisher would consider him to be deluisonal and another target. Jason has the potential to be an actual hero again, Frank doesn't

[@FrancisCastiglione]

​@@UltraVioletKnight Seeing as Jason ensured no innocents would be caught in the crossfire while he was in charge of crime, Frank would probably let him off the hook with a warning.

[@wildrabbit2237]

Great insight! I love you videos, my favorite background drawing videos

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Glad to hear that. I can't draw a wall :)

[@wildrabbit2237]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 I'm in charge of D&D character art in my group lol

[@wildrabbit2237]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 Still looking forward to the Helluva Boss video, have you seen the new Stolitz music video "Look My Way"?

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

@@wildrabbit2237 Yeah, I've seen that. Preferred the original version but the visuals are amazing like they usually are with Helluva Boss. My script on the show is getting longer and longer ... and longer. Especially since it will take quite a bit of explaining as to why I don't like Stolas/why he is a terrible character (because they are two different points that are equally long). Also I found a small contingent of Millie defenders and that set my brain ablaze. It'll be quite a while before I manage to get anything out there especially since there are a few others scripts I'm bouncing between like The Boys and now Last Jedi since I rewatched an old film called 'Mutiny on the Bounty' and was doubly reminded how bad Holdo was. I mean I always knew she was terrible just from my own experiences as a leader but this cemented in my head all the reasons she is so incompetent. So much so that the Captain whose crew committed quite possibly the most famous mutiny in history is a more competent leader than her. Quite possibly the worst leader to be portrayed positively I've ever seen.

[@wildrabbit2237]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 The original was amazing, but I think the VA for Stolas blew this clean out of the park. Like, I still don't think the relationship of Stolitz is healthy by any means, but I don't think it's supposed to be. And I'm hoping that what they're doing by making this song canon is opening the characters up to have that talk. The fact that Stolis and Blitzo are supposed to have a duet in the next episode make me lean that way as well. As for Stolis being a terrible character, I just don't think we're going to see eye to eye on that one. Wasn't a super big fan of The Boys, but I'll definitely watch it either way! I would've replied sooner, but I've been sick with the big "C-19"

[@final_catalyst]

he is a mirror to show us the worst of humanity, but in a way that lets you see how someone would get there, with the understanding no one really believes they are evil. (that is not to say people don't think actions they take can be bad)

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Yeah, Frank is fascinating. Though I tend to think that the scales tip in the balance of nature more than nurture. Though of course both play a part

[@movieguy6505]

She's right about the MCU version of the punisher. The Marvel cinematic universe has always been having a continuity problem due to its more fluid nature that it takes from the comics. Sure it does have a good consistency for lining stories up together in a linear fashion but as a massive storyline it misses some core details about minor characters that sometimes slipped between the cracks. Also it's the fact that Marvel Studios is owned by Disney who just from a business perspective likes the crank these out almost every year.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

If I had to put the problem in two words, i'd say Oversaturation and uniformity. I think so many studios but disney in particular just don't know how to take risks anymore. That's why I would cry out for another Punisher film in the vain of Warzone

[@MrFillus]

Heya, Miss, I was curious about your feelings regarding the Fantastic four cast announcement & Deadpool & Wolverine trailer?😀

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Pretty indifferent to the Fantastic Four but I don't think I have been truly excited for an MCU property since End Game. But I'm really looking forward to Deadpool

[@MrFillus]

I’m with you on giving that scrappy soccer hooligan lady a second crack at Frank, BUT only if the polar bear she forces him to strike is a New Yorker polar bear with the accent & all. 😂

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Yes yes yes

[@MrFillus]

So were you stoked for the possibility of good ol Johnny B showing up on the Disney-fied, Frankenstein (see what I did there?😂) like Daredevil situation before they scrapped everything? I agree his interactions with Matt were really well written & highlighter the two opposing perspectives they have on doing what they do was gold. I just don’t see how they could possibly have had Punishee be the real Punisher whilst under the rule of the mouse.. although, I was even surprised that they green lit any project with “devil “ in the title, instead of his renowned & feared skullcap it’s just a white chalk Mickey Mouse head!😂 p

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

@@MrFillus Well, nobody knows what disney is thinking these days. They damaged so many golden goose brands it is practically a skill at this point.

[@MrFillus]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 haha the one skill they seem to excel at! Yeah it is insane to consider all the harm their shameless cash grabs have hurt the credibility of the originals. Or Star Wars, like I think the sequel trilogy gets a bit more hate than it deserves, generally speaking. That’s not to say I think they’re good either lol they are definitely not, but they have their moments. But if you consider what we COULD have had, then look at what we got…we got shafted. Luke got shafted. Obi Wan got shafted(except that last duel..I admit that was legit). It’s a wonder they still seem to be such a big hitter with all their Disney magic power & Scrooge McDuck rooms of money scattered about 😂

[@Temple277]

Honestly i still like Punisher as a character but i just recently find the idea of anti heroes boring, overused and cringe. Don't get me wrong i love characters such as red hood or the authority, but i just prefer to read about fun and cool complex characters such as my boy Supes, Shazam or Flash rather then dark edgelords such as Batman, Red Hood or Punisher. Idk maybe just me, but i just hope we will see that ine scene from Superman vs the elite in Superman Legacy where Supes talks about how we should fight for our dreams and give others a chance no matter who they are rather then becoming the dark machine of vengeance who kills basically anyone who happens to be the villain of the story, and hopefully if that happens it will end thr whole trend anti heroes just so the true heroes of the story can return, in a flash. P.S. u made another banger video, u should be proud of yourself! ✌️

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

I'm more too partial to the good boys myself. Nightwing, Captain America, Superboy (Conner Kent, YJ comics not show), Daredevil etc. Just every now and then I'll get a John Constantine, or a Frank Castle that will grab my attention. I adore Jason Todd but looking at his comics outside of Judd Winnick's work and his years as Robin I think I'm in love with the potential of the character more than what I see in the comics. I don't think they've utilized him all that well. I see fanfiction upon fiction that explores his character and his struggle more and better than most comics featuring him do. I'm just praying he gets the focus he deserves. Though to be fair parts of the Red Hood run with Artemis and Bizzaro weren't terrible.

[@paulakroy2635]

Superman vs the elite is shallow. Punisher in a weird way is a response using Heidegger, knowing that nothing will change and yet you still do the moral thing anyway.

[@ChipplesDClown]

Love the accent.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Scottish through and through x

[@trevturp6891]

The Punisher isn’t a Daredevil villain.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

In the show he is and he is a long running antagonist to DD in the comics. Their relationships is complicated as I described in the video so they often work together or against each other for the same goal. Calling him 'Daredevil Villain' is simplistic to his character as a whole and their relationship but he has fullfiled that function before and he's a pretty great one for DD

[@thescarlettgirl202]

Great vid! My support of vigilantism comes from a place of knowledge. The system's "trained pros" are only humans. They aren't smarter. They aren't more noble. They aren't braver. They have addictions,biases and even sociopathy. Does that mean I can automatically fly a helicopter? No,but when resources are kept from regular people it places a cap on their skill set. This cap is artificial. Access to helicopters would create more copter pilots. At least,resource access is a baseline from which to build a general populace that can actually manage for themselves. Why wouldn't the system want that? Is it because we would find them lacking and replaceable?

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Libertarian? 😁. I think you put it well in the sense that 'trained pros' get a lot more of the benefit of the doubt than they should, at least in some areas, when they are subject to the same vices and weaknesses everyone is. My problem is that while I agree expanding access to a lot of things would create a more self-sufficient populous I don't think Vigilantism is something worth supporting because of the scope for thing to go horribly wrong. Funnily enough I just finished watching a documentary (google Hampstead P**do hoax, it's a doozy) where people were accused of all manner of horrific things, the police did the investigating, the court did their thing and the justice system worked in that sense (though it often doesn't but that's another argument) but vigilantes terriorised, doxed and threatened the accused even after they were cleared (because it was obvious bullsh*t) because THEY knew better. It didn't matter what evidence was put in front of them THEY knew better. There has to be a system in place for crime, we need a better one but we need a system none the less. Vigilantism leaves the door open to so much tragedy. Frank knows this. And that is actually why I laugh at people co-opting the punisher logo because if one were to become the punisher, the first person who would come after you is Frank.

[@thescarlettgirl202]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 I see your point. It's simply that idiots are eternal. Having a giant social structure doesn't change that. Empower the intelligent,such as yourself.

[@UltraVioletKnight]

Why I don't get is why is Jigsaw is still alive in the comics when Punisher should have offed him by now. He guns down random goons but this psycho is till running about (Tbh same with Kingpin)

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

That's the thing about having a 'hero' with a killing rule. And people want Batman to be like this?

[@JPMonster13]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 That's why Chuck Dixon did Knightfall to show the readers they don't want Batman like that.

[@WowItzAkina]

2:20 How could describe (comic book) Frank is An example How propaganda can turn an actual murderer into an icon. The Yang to Batman’s Ying. The Netflix version of Frank is a perfect example of what a “good” Punisher looks like. His motives makes sense, his targets make sense, he at least TRIES to keep collateral damage down. He does consider if what he does is right.

[@paulakroy2635]

No punisher is good and a hero despite being a psychopath who enjoys killing . Well written punisher is never going to kill anyone who doesn’t deserve it. Well written punisher would comfort a scare child before killing anyone. His motives are inpure ( just wanting to kill/ fight people) but he’s also duty bound ( tying back to his family).

[@halljustin4306]

I love Punisher through the eyes of other heroes. He makes the best Cameos. 2 of my favorite Punisher moments are in Civil War. Where he kills the villains hunting Spider-Man, and when Captain America does what he did to him. Also in Dark Reign when he took the shot on Norman Osborn. This one highlights him as dangerous because he is a lone force.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Outside of the Max run and Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe I love it the most when he is paired up with daredevil

[@paulakroy2635]

2:06 he knows that deep down. He knows he’s a hypocrite and yet he is still justifying to himself so that he can sleep at night.

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

I disagree. I think Frank is a hypocrite yes, but at the same time he totally 100% believes what he is doing is right even if anyone else did it he'd be the first in line to shoot them. I don't think Frank has any problem sleeping at night, but he is more a rules for thee others for me kind of guy.

[@paulakroy2635]

@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206 I kinda disagree. I think the fact he’s saving the last bullet for himself proves that he knows that he’s a hypocrite. That he’s doing it for his family. But I think he’s able to justify it to himself because he lives in a world where his actions are just imo ( please don’t take this to mean in the real world the punisher is justify) . He’s able to sleep at night because he’s never killed anyone who didn’t deserve it. But as a general principle I think he knows that he’s a monster even if he believes the people he kills deserve to die. Does that make sense

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

@@paulakroy2635 That's exactly what I'm talking about. He has no problems sleeping at night because he believes what he is doing is right, hypocrite or not. The weird thing lots of people forget about hypocrisy is that being a hypocrite doesn't make you wrong. It just means you lose the moral high ground. Something Frank doesn't care a jot about having. The only disagreement I think we are genuinely having here is I believe Frank has no problems sleeping at night and has no qualms about what he is doing because like I said in the video, 'frank is always right.' It is part of what I mentioned about how he MUST be a soldier in any iteration because he makes decisions and dishes out 'justice' like a soldier on the battlefield. No second thoughts or chances, just a war. He may be a hypocrite but that doesn't mean he believes he's wrong or he has to tell himself anything in order to be okay with what he does. As Bernthal's punisher said, "What I do I just do."

[@WowItzAkina]

23:50 I’d argue Frank means “hurt” as in like long term massive damage. He essentially spared that guy the trouble of losing his job because how can they fire a man who was literally knocked out by the punisher💀💀💀 26:21 having Frank not dead inside is good for the character. It makes his motives actually feel valid and honestly makes him feel like more than a propaganda machine.

[@paulakroy2635]

Having the punisher be dehumanized is the entire point

[@whyitdoesntworkforme9206]

Oh I'm well aware what Frank believes 'hurt' to be 😏 but that's just oor Frank. I was basically just saying that he doesn't get to say that because even though be 'his' standards that was a love tap his threshold for 'hurt' like most things about his brain is messed up. And I have to disagree. Frank as a character is at his most interesting when he is either dead inside or as close to it as one can. Giving him more humanity just turns this into another sad boy anti-hero story. Frank is a stone cold killer and if some people identify with that, so what? You're going to get messed up people identifying with messed up characters no matter what you do. Fans of crime dramas sometimes identify with serial killers doesn't mean you should make them better people.

[@FrancisCastiglione]

​@@whyitdoesntworkforme9206I might be mistaken but, from all i've read, isn't there a difference between being desensitized and being dead inside? From all i've read, atleast ones that aren't written by Garth Ennis, Frank never truly comes off as numb inside. Rather, desensitized.