Do You Need To See God To Believe In Him? | Talk Heathen: Throwback

[@CeezGeez]

caller is a literal mouth breather 😂

[@AGodofIrony]

Like three minutes in and really feels like the caller is trying to follow a flow chart but the hosts aren't following his script, and the caller keeps trying to bring it back to his script.

[@quotedotes]

I've only ever found a handful of apologists that are willing to deviate from their idiotic and fallacious scripts, to actually discuss their positions. It speaks to how dishonest their positions really are, when they don't just try to deflect or run from scrutiny.

[@ARoll925]

Caller is one of the most dishonest people I have ever heard

[@dilldell4722]

Seeing is believing huh? Imagine how terrifying and confusing Halloween is for this man. Seeing all those scary monsters walking around demanding candy.

[@kowoh]

Seeing wasn’t accurate enough for all the people who testified falsely and put humans in prisons ? Did caller actually see Jesus , god , and the Holy Spirit or even mention what he saw that convinced him ?

[@tomdavis9236]

😅 right on

[@quotedotes]

The list of mental hoops they jump through is exhausting to list out. "Demons are real, but the costumes they put on are just representative" "You're inviting da devil into your life when you engage in his evil rituals" "You should ONLY consume Christian media, not worldly SECULAR content, because you should glorify Jebus every day"

[@Justinian-IV]

Use the mute button.

[@meloveAi]

OMFG YES this call really needed this.

[@Beerglass1980]

Yessssss!!! WHAT AN ANNOYING CALLER😡

[@realhuman8305]

They let him get away with way too much. I hate when these dishonest theists call in and railroad the hosts.

[@CoderOfBugs]

Does Sam know he is talking to two adults and not two children?

[@thecriticalone1783]

No one should talk to children like that either. Interrupting and trying to get them to admit to something they didn't say, not listing to their point of view at all. It's disgusting behavior

[@CoderOfBugs]

​@thecriticalone1783 I agree 100%. He talks as if he's talking to two robots that can't think for themselves. So, you're right... even talking to children that way is inappropriate, to say the least.

[@kowoh]

Apparently for knowing anecdotes aren’t reliable makes Thomas loose points. Sam could have learned some critical thinking skills instead. Missed opportunity

[@capthavic]

No, because he's a child talking AT two adults.

[@Devious_Dave]

Respecting one's audience is good advice (though I've no expectation many theists will understand it 😞).

[@mattbutler5208]

Sam - answer my question Host- we did Sam- oh I wasn't listening Host - here's the answer Sam - I don't like it so now listen to me as I change the topic and ignore your answer

[@IsThatYouRalph]

Perhaps one of the most insufferable calls I’ve ever heard

[@kowoh]

Ya he annoyed me to because he’s trying to be unproductive and calling it standing up for the truth or some similar vague platitude. Don’t mention locations I’m talking about god ! Really your a theist Christian caller holy shit I had no idea.

[@spinav8r]

Exactly! That's why I bailed early on this call. This caller made the video a complete waste of my time. Apparently Sam from Texas is content to live a low I.Q. life.

[@cctomcat321]

* breathes heavily into the phone *

[@ojrmk1]

Holy crap this guy's tone feels like someone's scraping my gums with a cheese grater.

[@kaihedgie1747]

Seems almost deliberate, like he's trolling

[@thecriticalone1783]

​@@kaihedgie1747 It would be nice if he is trolling, however, people like that exist.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

He seems to think he is doing a sunday school sitting for some 5 year olds.

[@theotherworlddream1]

The name of Sam's tone is "condescending" or better known as "holier than thou", which ironically applies to more than just religion

[@raccuia1]

Yeah, it felt as if I was sliding down a razor blade using my balls for brakes.

[@victorhoisington5603]

Sam dies not know the difference between a statement and a question!

[@the-outsider8458]

I've rarely seen this response, do thank you for addressing it. "If I see God standing in front of me" To be more honest and accurate, if i see a vision of some guy who claims to be God. He's just assuming he'll know because he knows. "I'm infallible, I'd know and believe, why don't you?"

[@BeefT-Sq]

"The fundamental concept here is “faith.” “Faith” in this context means belief in the absence of evidence. This is the essential that distinguishes religion from science." -Leonard Peikoff-1986

[@EricScheib]

Poor Sam. Couldn’t think his way out of a wet paper bag.

[@raccuia1]

Sam is the kind of vacuous twirp that if you tell him often enough that shit is clay, he'll believe it.

[@arieswar4770]

He just preaching!!!

[@MrCanis4]

This very condescending dude asks a question and every time the answer doesn't go in the direction he wants, he interrupts me with even more condescension. What a prick. 😂

[@kowoh]

Sam’s a broken record who doesn’t listen , and lacks self control on this call. So not much could be accomplished with him.

[@victorhoisington5603]

The Sams of this world do no favors for their cause. Their approach sounds fanatical and the desperation is tangible.

[@canbest7668]

More dodge ball, Sam?

[@SecondaryHomunculus]

The 5 Ds of apologetics: Dodge, Dip, Duck, Dive, and Dodge.

[@kowoh]

Olympic gold medalist in dodgeball 👍

[@user-Terry314]

Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.

[@ginagamba]

That's cynicism not skepticism. I'd modify it to "Give people the benefit of the doubt as long as it meshes with reality."

[@Rage867]

What a pathetic caller. Can't let the hosts talk, refuses to accept they are answering his questions and insulting them for his lack of intelligence. They aren't sending their best folks.

[@mattg5802]

I remember hitting peak frustration with this call but then feeling so sorry for the guy, with how gullible he is and how angry he got when someone didn’t play the game he thought he was going to win 😂

[@Trevor-Stoddart]

There is no way this call should have gone on for more than 20 minutes

[@StanleyR1]

I was waiting for them to ask the most obvious question about seeing God. "How do you know it's God?"

[@mikepanick468]

Stopped at 12:00 when I realized I would never get that tie back.

[@BigSlimyBlob]

When someone's clearly not listening, better just drop the call.

[@AlexeiX1]

And here I was thinking I knew what condescending was before this call, holy....

[@capthavic]

The absolute arrogance to assume you couldn't be wrong, it's no wonder he's a theist.

[@quotedotes]

Exactly.

[@dalecs47]

"You need to listen to me, believe in my god!" "And then you need to do what I say and live your life the way I tell you to live because MY god put ME in charge of you and your life. And give me money because MY god says so."

[@claudiasolomon1123]

This guy watched this show for a month, got his feelings hurt then called this show to transfer his unhappy energy onto these 2 hosts. He was on a mission to 'get back' at them & became super irritated when it became obvious his little games wont work with them.

[@God-ld6ll]

You need proof to be convinced i am real. It isn't a voluntary thing, and costs $100 per proof. 😅

[@diogeneslamp8004]

The check is in the mail.

[@God-ld6ll]

@@diogeneslamp8004ty, did the proof work?

[@diogeneslamp8004]

@@God-ld6ll Still waiting, but appreciate you checking in. It’s more than the other god does.

[@RussianPrimeMinister]

Holy cow, its you! Wow, THE God! Hey, what's with the whole "pediatric cancer" thing?

[@God-ld6ll]

@@RussianPrimeMinisterplay my "Bible" the video game and beat it to cure all your illnesses.

[@coreygraybz]

Why did yall not mute this guy when he interrupted? Him talking over constantly made this painful to listen to.

[@alamunez]

From my understanding, they try to use the mute button as little as possible on Talk Heathen, where they try to have longer conversations with callers than they do on The Atheist Experience and other programmes. Don’t get me wrong though, I also wished they had used the mute button during this particular call.

[@CalvinSnow-ks3cl]

There may have been a more obnoxious, rude, caller than Sam, but he has my vote at the moment.

[@Skeptic236]

Sam calls in and wants to talk about God, but only if the hosts believe him.

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

*Magic is real and clearly exists* (Deuteronomy 18:10-14, Acts 8:9-13, Leviticus 19:31, Isaiah 8:19, Isaiah 19:3, 2 Kings 21:6). *Talking animals exist too, of course* (Genesis 3:1-5, Numbers 22:21-33, Revelation 8:13, Job 12:7-10)! *Not to forget giant sea serpents, they clearly exist* (Job 41:1, Psalms 74:14) too, after all! No fairy tales in the bible whatsoever.

[@Furry-ousNews]

Just gonna copy paste this for that bot jeremys post looool

[@Mouth-of-Spaghetti]

At first l thought you were a Christian doing one of those long 'mass quote' bombs.

[@kowoh]

I’d start a blog friend or go on a theology discussion board 👍 We’re all aware the Bible makes supernatural claims a list of one’s we’ve read already doesn’t accomplish much. Plus it’s a waste of your time to cut and paste them all.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Go and read Harry Potter. Magic is clearly real.

[@jpstardom3375]

​@@petyrkowalski9887 ....... ...... **waves wand** Obliviate!

[@quotedotes]

"YOOOOUUUUUUUU'RRRREEEEEE AFRAIIIIIIIIIIIID!!" Says the caller, that absolutely will not answer any questions about his own faith or beliefs, whatsoever...😂😂

[@lukasmontenegro3558]

The caller was making a stupidly easy question on if the hosts needed to see God to believe and they went through loops and backflips for several minutes for no apparent reason. Insane! Haha

[@barclaybehie7787]

The word of the day is “projection”

[@mr.allitknow3777]

To quote the late great comedian / philosopher George Carlin and why he worshipped the sun as opposed to worshipping a God. " First of all , I can see the sun , okay ? Unlike some other Gods I could mention , I can actually see the sun. I'm kind of big on that. If I can see something , I don't know , it kind of helps the credibility along , you know ".

[@cgfamorcan9809]

Sam sounds TROLLISH. He wants to lead the host on a Circular Argument.

[@brucewilliams4152]

The bible claims a God exists, well please demonstrate the existence of god outside the claimed existence in the bible

[@diogeneslamp8004]

So simple.

[@quotedotes]

Almost as if they have NO good evidence for their beliefs, and they've been grasping at straws, for 2.000+ years...

[@Glasschin2.0]

I’m an atheist , no you don’t need to see to believe. I believe I had a great great Grandfather, I have never seen him, read about him. I don’t even know his name. Yet with 100% confidence I know he existed. I don’t need to see gravity to know its effect.

[@jacquespoulemer]

I hope you guys appreciate that our Tejano Sam is a total solepcist....don't do it kiddies!

[@jacquespoulemer]

Actually I'm getting Calvinist vibes

[@saveusmilkboy]

Sam, I would not believe based on an apparition. More is needed. There, was that clear enough?

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Many, many things in the bible are demonstrably false so how can we take any of the magical, supernatural claims seriously?

[@ashlastname-bb4jg]

The mute function was extremely under utilized for this call

[@rattlersix]

I hate when people say "if you saw God..." because how would we even know? God's attributes are that he's a being that has various powers such as all knowing, can create universes, eternal etc. None of those things are visual. Now, if I saw someone who claimed to be God and he spent a month with me, answered my questions, took me on a tour through time and space, etc I'd definitely believe. But seeing him means nothing because nothing about him is visually known or even important.

[@capthavic]

@@rattlersix It presumes that you would be able to distinguish between a real God and literally any other potential or much more likely, explanation. And in this case just on sight alone, which is another level of arrogant.

[@Specialeffecks]

I going to call into a show where the hosts are interested in honest, two-way conversation for deeper understanding, but I won't do that. Why? Reasons. Possible reasons - 1) Honest inquiry may expose my fragile yet deep emotional need to cling to the world view in which I have invested so much time/energy/money which if threatened may crumble like a house of cards without using such infantile, obnoxious, and smug defense tactics. 2) I'm scared to the point of numbness and therefore incapable to learn about and explore anything new that's outside what I have been conditioned is allowable. 3) Conditioned defense mechanism on top of conditioned defense mechanism on top of conditioned defense mechanism... 4) Maybe I'm hopeful these atheists can cut through the bull and get me out of this religious trap I've endured way too long. Note: curiously, it’s never “I’ve got real and convincing evidence for X flavor of god or gods and here it is.”

[@artemisnite]

I see 10k children dying of starvation everyday and I believe a good gawd who can drop food from the skies would DO IT NOW if he existed.

[@emirmusinovic7375]

Imagine being his wife.

[@wsconsn]

What would it take for you to believe that King Arthur exists and will return?

[@anthonysmith8800]

What an arrogant, sanctimonious, dishonest, narcissistic caller he was.

[@Glasschin2.0]

Caller isn’t remotely interested in having an honest conversation. Isn’t listening to a single thing the hosts are saying. This is the reason Matt is trigger happy with the mute button.

[@mr.c2485]

I like Samantha…..he’s silly 😜

[@maynardlikethecandy5347]

Who here is a true believer? Do you see a creator when you look at the trees and sky? At what age did you become a devout theist?

[@tedgrant2]

If you look in the sky carefully, you might see God sitting on a throne. And you might even see Jesus sitting on Gods right hand ! Just use your imagination (Hebrews 12:2).

[@hockeylvr42]

Sam says his epistemology is based off “seeing is believing” And yet, I’d bet $100 he believes the tectonic plates of the earth move, and he’s never seen them move. Seeing isn’t believing. Never has been, never will be

[@capthavic]

I think you are giving Sam way too much credit.

[@clemstevenson]

Please supply parametric data for god, because I have no idea what a god would look like. God believers can't provide parametric data, because they have no parametric data. They just have claims. What if a met an entity that claimed to be god (hypothetically), but that entity failed to match with any human concepts of a god? People merely claim to have had contact with god without supporting evidence, thus I have no logical reason to accept their assertions.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

He looks like you and I…apparently 😂

[@clemstevenson]

@@petyrkowalski9887 Yes, it is remarkable how these religious people can claim that god is a humanoid, at the same time as being a space-less, timeless, non-physical mind. They had moved the goalposts, such that god was beyond anyone's ability to disprove.

[@terrencelockett4072]

The hosts answered the question at the beginning by saying not necessarily. Then when they tried to give a more nuanced answer he kept acting like they never gave any answer at all.

[@eveharris30]

Personally, I do need to see a god. Depending on the definition. If im supposed to have a relationship with someone, get to know them, fall in love, etc. Then, I would actually need to meet them face to face. If he is invisible and can't be demonstrated, then I just dont care or believe it. I have no reason to.

[@taurculh69]

I was having a shower few years back and I "saw" Phosphenes, both eyes, identical pattern, blocking about 75% of my entire vision. Thought I was stroking for a minute. The brain produces those, they are not "visual" per se, they are fed to you by the brain playing up. First time ever I've "seen" something "not real". You can't automatically ever assume that when you see something unusual that it's real. Things are real when you can test them and show them to be with actual data.

[@TimHonisett-m1x]

I hope hes never allowed to call back.

[@eklektikTubb]

"Dont assume that they are liars" - Well, firstly, many of them ARE liars. And secondly, telling someone that he saw something that wasnt there because of his mental issues isnt more polite than calling him a liar. So how else to deal with this? Maybe suggesting some other explanations, such as dream or optical illusion or some of his friends trying to fool him and dressing up as the being he experienced (ghost, alien, bigfoot, etc.) would count as a polite response to the anecdotal argument, but it seems a bit too complicated.

[@lulolie]

I hope every single idiot who talks about Matt or Forrest "being an ass" by cutting off the caller watches this call, and rewatches, and rewatches it until they realize the mute button is fucking needed

[@valerie2645]

How about that crowd of people who saw Mary?

[@Glasschin2.0]

Ever been to a magic show?

[@valerie2645]

exactly.

[@dannymccook]

This dudes brain straight up doesn’t work.

[@kellyrestiaux9846]

Sam - TX is like Darth Dawkins had a brother who was somehow dumber, more obnoxious, more ignorant, and even less capable of listening.

[@ceciljenkins1015]

Sam is a perfect example of how religion can make people into unreasonable and misinformed followers that will lie to defend their beliefs when they find the truth uncomfortable.

[@andrewpagan5087]

Is there a reason Sam was such a prick 😭 like not to name call but dude was an asshole right out the gate

[@leotorres5122]

Sam, how in the hell you want me to see god if he doesn’t show his face

[@mckorr2116]

There are a lot of books that claim a god exists. The Bible is no more special than any of the others. It seems the vast majority of theist callers are completely blind to the fact that there are other religions in the world than the Abrahamic ones, with equally valid claims for their own gods. Hence the first question to people like Sam should be "which god?", and the second question should be "have you studied the claims for the others?"

[@scottdavis3571]

Can't see oxygen, but I know it's there.

[@Specialeffecks]

Does not a single caller ever have an honest, clear, testable, understandable point of data that points exclusively to some specific creator deity? If you do, please bring only that. If not, first ask yourself why not? Why believe the claim short that type of evidence (keeping in mind people do become convinced of all sorts of things even you find untrue)? Tip: NO reason you believe in a god (or gods) has anything to do with the hosts.

[@scamchan]

So the caller saw GOD or not?

[@Caniswalensis]

Caller is trolling?

[@capthavic]

God wasn't the only spirit filling him during that call :P

[@johns1625]

I was totally expecting him to pull the BS Mormon "i saw god with my SPIRITUAL eyes" argument. Im disappointed in you Sam, for bearing false witness and being a dork.

[@jayjonah83]

People need to stop being so "charitable" and realize that stupid is real and it is breeding and it has access to the Internet.

[@VDxVicious]

In the future , just use the mute button. Lol

[@maynardlikethecandy5347]

Sam was drunk!

[@rrodriguez4277]

Sam is intolerable

[@artemisnite]

Doesn't he just embody the spirit of Christ? What would Jaysus do? So angry.

[@nuclearsimian3281]

Does this guy not understand that people don't want to hear him huffing and puffing into the microphone?

[@melodygarrison7531]

I’ve heard Sam before. He is probably the stupidest person I’ve heard on these forums. And yes I will name call.

[@Dithippothingystuff]

Aaargh! How annoying can a person be?!

[@nollaf126]

But YOU want to talk about cities. Blah blah blah CITIES! Yadda blah blurt poop drool, but citiesssss!!!... Cities, whine moan whine whine, you need to see God to believe, citiesss cities, city city bang bang.

[@RoguePhotonic]

This person is incapable of having an intellectual conversation.

[@biggingeryeti]

Just say no, do you need to see god to see him? No. I can't see numerous things but so what? I want something measurable and repeatable. He's got nothing either way. Why all the fuss?

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

This is a dishonest tactic by the religious to make atheists seem close minded, Not That it matters because god never cooperates anyway.

[@Specialeffecks]

Such a dumb questions "Do you have to see god to believe he exists?" WHICH GOD CLAIM? 1) A being that cannot be seen. (If that is your definition then it's a silly question). 2) A being that cannot be determined by humans to exist. (If that is your definition then it's a silly question). 3) Three letters printed in black ink spelling 'God' on a page. (If that is your definition then yes, I've seen those three letters on a page.) One Christian claims Jesus in not the god, that there is only one God, not a Trinity, only Jehovah so even Christians have different concepts of a god.

[@engibones5948]

This guy is total BS

[@brianharris7243]

What a clown

[@kaylaalbertson6335]

MUTE BUTTON

[@blightcraftgamma]

I don't think this tool listened to a single thing these two said at all....

[@capthavic]

I think he was, that's why he got increasingly agitated when they refused to follow his script. He just wasn't interested in having an honest discussion.

[@hughring]

Man what a shitty conversation. On both sides.

[@AllAnimalloversarevegan]

I am very tired of the AI clickbait and cheesy covers. It lacks depth, creativity and looks clinical. Keep it real or get real artists please.

[@Jeremy-xu3yu]

Repent of your sins. Believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and become a new person in this life. John 3:16, Luke 13:3, 1 Peter 1:23 KJV

[@AllAnimalloversarevegan]

Quick, easy questions: How long have you been a member of the christian death cult? Have you read every single word on every single page of the Bible? I look forward to your response.....

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

There were young women and girls kept as war trophies by your god's "chosen" people. *Numbers 31:9 KJV* And the children of Israel *took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones,* and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. *Exodus 21:2 KJV* If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. *Non-Hebrew "servants" were kept for life instead of freeing them.* And since when can you *BUY servants instead of hiring* them? Why doesn't *Leviticus 25:44-45 KJV* talk about servants and instead mentions bondmen/bondmaids (archaic for slaves)? In which reality are servants your money as if they belong to you like property? *Exodus 21:20-21 KJV* And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: *for he is his money.* Why should servants fear their employ- er, I mean master? *Ephesians 6:5 KJV* "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, *with fear and trembling,* in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;" Why should servants fear god if he is loving and good? *Colossians 3:22-4:1 KJV* Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, *fearing God;*

[@brucewilliams4152]

Perhaps you should demonstrate the existence of any God before things claimed In a book have any relevance to.say

[@victorhoisington5603]

Boring!

[@albaniahenry-franklin2829]

Why do you ANGRILY deny the existence of your creator and the one TRUE living God Agudar!?? You are a willful child of Agudar that wants to live a life of debauched SIN! Your anger toward your creator has blinded you to His divine spiritual perfection and lead you to believe in a FALSE "God" and it's demoniacal cult of believers. Release your anger and accept the warm embrace of your TRUE creator and only God worthy of worship Agudar. Merciful Agudar is the Way, the TRUTH, and the LIGHT! All powerful and all knowing Agudar...all praises to His name....will save you from your sins before it is too late with His everlasting love. REPENT! 🤣

[@thecentralscrutinizer]

If he has to see to believe, why does he believe?

[@Glasschin2.0]

I’m an atheist , no you don’t need to see to believe. I believe I had a great great Grandfather, I have never seen him, read about him. I don’t even know his name. Yet with 100% confidence I know he existed. I don’t need to see gravity to know its effect.