VET NEUROLOGIST REACTS TO ANIMAL CHIROPRACTOR

#animalchiropractic #chiropractic #veterinary
I came across a channel from an animal chiropractor called "The Animal Cracker" recently and I wanted to give my thoughts in regards to this video, the comments made therein by the chiropractor and owner, and animal chiropractic in general.
In summary - there is no evidence that supports the use of chiropractic in animals. The claims made by chiropractors and those who support chiropractic, are unfounded by evidence, anatomy, physiology, and simply logic. It is my strong belief they operate purely by grifting onto the phenomenon of placebo and various forms of bias. Furthermore, from what I have seen on social media, animals are put through manual manipulations that cause pain and based on the various possible causes of their symptoms to begin with, should not be doing these movements for fear of worsening their neurologic deficits or pain level. In addition, these animals rarely, if ever, have an actual diagnosis the chiropractor is working from in the first place.
Happy to talk about it more in the comments! Have a great day everyone.
If you're a vet and in need of consultation for a patient with neurologic disease, please consider my website www.vetneuroconsult.com. You can go on there and book an appointment with me to review a case. I set the prices to be well below what I know to be the average cost of a neurologist consultation in person, based on my experience. Thanks and I look forward to helping you!
www.vetneuroconsult.com
I recently became a member of the Balto community. Balto makes braces for dogs and I plan to use the neck braces for cases of cervical spinal instability. I think these braces are less cumbersome and much easier to place compared to traditional bandaging measures. If you think your pet may benefit from a brace of some kind, here is the link to their website:
kvportho.com/dvmcellini
Use the affiliate code DVMCELLINI for 10% off your order (full disclosure - they give me 10% of sales as a commission).
Hope you enjoy and stay well!
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CONTACT ME:
📸 Instagram - / dvmcellini
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📧 Email: [e-mail]
Books I Studied Throughout My Career (and still use for reference guides):
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DeLahunta Neuroanatomy (bible of vet neuro) - amzn.to/3w9ITzB
🎵 Where I get ALL of My Music from -- Epidemic Sound!
epidemicsound.com/referral/nfa6vr/

[@williamtufts3600]

What do you know? With your multiple years studying animal medicine and physiology. And your years being a practicing vet. That's nothing compared to the 2 week online course this chiropractor took. He printed out his own certificate just to show you how much more knowledge he has.

[@robertlibby9716]

Human chiropractors make all sorts of goofy claims like curing colds and even cancer. There's virtually zero proof of their claims and some feel they're dangerous. One example is the "activator"- a little plastic plunger that puts shoots a small plunger with 1/2psi on your spine and that's supposed to do something- it does nothing. Where does chiropractic come from? A guy named Palmer had it revealed to him by an angel/spirit while at a seance! It doesn't get more scientific than that folks!

[@BotDavid]

All doctors are against chiropractors in every field because they take their money and patients. Doctors want to throw you on pain meds to get their kick backs.

[@ej119]

it is about functional mobility. palpation is a skill a neurologist lacks and manual manipulation improves biomechanical movement of the spine. Animal Chiropractic is beneficial but the Medical Fraud Pill pushers that need te$t and more $$$ te$t before the are "confident" on a diagnosis should have no base talking on care.

[@williamtufts3600]

@@ej119 uh huh

[@Grace-it3sl]

I needed to read this twice but u understand now this is sarcasm and an amazing one to

[@AlienKissy]

Thank you for putting this video out! I am very confused by all of these pet chiropractor videos. I have seen no scientific evidence for on any of it. It looks like the guy just beat that poor dog up and she's happy to get away from it and he's saying "yeah, she's feeling better!" I always wonder- what are the long term consequences for these physical minipulations? WHY is that dog even there when she's obviously standing and walking now? At this point, especially with NO images, you could do ANYTHING and say "THAT worked!". Corrolation is not causation, my dudes.

[@coryhamel2512]

There's still no scientific evidence that supports chiropractic as being beneficial, yet it is still allowed to continue. Libel laws in the UK had to change because of a case the British Chiropractic Association brought against a science journalist who called chiropractic "bullshit." In the end, the journalist won, because chiropractors weren't able to provide evidence of their medical claims.

[@iuliabelet2221]

5th year vet student here! Love your videos! You answered every one of my questions on this topic. I really appreciate the little side notes and explanations regarding the different conditions the dog could have been presenting.

[@DVMCellini]

Thank you I’m glad you enjoyed the video!

[@user-cs2dw6el3w]

Mam buldozka 3 letniego ,który doznał 4 konczynowego porażenia kręgosłupa.Od lutego staramy się go rechabilitowac efekty są bardzo mizerne 😢 gdzie jeszcze mogłabym się z nim udać. Natomiast pana film jest bardzo interesujący

[@tguest490]

55 yr old who has competed in horse endurance racing and dog agilty for 30+ yrs, please don't take this person's professional opinion as "gospel" especially as it relates to alternative medicine. There are many animal parents that do appreciate alternative treatments when appropriate and have experienced positive results with them for our animals. This guy may have done a good job of offering other potential diagnosis and other treatment options, but his complete disdain for alternative treatments that might deviate from the "gold standard" tells me he's not a vet I would go to.

[@JakeKoenig]

Sadly, this video only has 29k views while many animal chiropractic videos have millions of views. People would rather watch animal abuse than watch someone calling out animal abuse. I can't even watch those videos. I keep thinking they're going to either paralyze or kill the animals.

[@DVMCellini]

It’s funny how many people think I’m the idiot. 😂

[@e.agoraphobicdickinsonpoet660]

@@DVMCelliniif this dog had a herniated disc would Librela help? It sure helps with arthritis. I’m just curious. Do you think competent chiropractors have a place in relieving arthritis in dogs at all? My father was a neurosurgeon & boy did he dislike chiropractors.😬

[@AVspectre]

The only thing I like about the reviewed video is the channel name. I’ve gotta admit, Animal Crackers is a top-tier name for an animal chiropractic channel. Other than that, the content is pretty abhorrent.

[@OdysseusCentral]

Coming into vet school I was not a fan of neurology because it seemed scary. The more I progress through classes and watch your channel the more fascinating it becomes

[@DVMCellini]

i was the same way

[@DedraAmbroseandSnow]

I was going to be a vet. But I found out, I can't be in an enclosed area for long periods of time. With a bunch of fur babies sadly. So I turned to became a commissioned security officer.

[@juliachild9377]

​@@DedraAmbroseandSnowyou could have become an animal chiropractor and gotten yourself a great scam going.

[@stephengrisoli5811]

Pain: Exists to tell an animal there is a problem and messing with the area will make things worse. Chiropractor: WWE finishing move in the painful spot

[@judod97]

looks like you totally got the idea of chiropractic release🙂

[@BurnsyRuns]

​​​@@judod97whats to get? Its literally the same thing as cracking your knuckles but with your back or another area. Not exactly ancient wisdom, nor does it have anything resembling healing properties. It's hyper expensive short term relief, thats the scientific assesment of what it is. If you got a few extra thousand lying around and need some dude to jerk off your back for you then I guess go ahead and flex your wealth, king. The rest of us peasants will just continue to pay for doctors and drugs that virtually all scientists agree actually help us and our pets

[@judod97]

@@BurnsyRuns well,feel free to express tour opinion. It doesnt need to be necessariĺy right,but it is still yours🙂

[@BurnsyRuns]

@@judod97 i dont beleive in any woo-woo shit, thats why im healthy and dont have any issues with joint or spine mobility. Pretty sure my opinion is the right one but go off, youre doing a *really* good job defending it, really. Youre getting me to reconsider trusting hundreds of thousands of doctors and medical scientists and instead trust some random smug youtube commenter who definitely knows better than millions of hours of collaborative wisdom. Look I get it, your reaction is normal of someone whos been duped. You dont wanna think you've wasted money and been taken for a fool. So you wanna hold fast to your beleifs and defend these actions, to avoid suffering the blow to your ego. Unfortunately, thats exactly what happened if you ever paid for chiroprachty, you got taken for a ride. If you like your back cracked so much get your friend to do it, its free.

[@ankiking]

Same with humans and getting adjusted even if painful can give great relief.

[@samanthak7989]

Fourth year vet student here: Your videos are incredibly helpful for learning about client education! You have a great way of getting your point across. In addition, it was great to see you supporting the medical advice of the veterinarian and reinforcing its importance. Thank you for the content!

[@t.c3174]

Despite how Dr's feels about the video. It's the thought of helping out the owners pet not everyone can afford to pay a vet bill for a MRI or X-ray so yes it may have its pros and cons and heck pets only live soo long anyways.

[@gatrow581]

@@t.c3174Not everyone can afford to pay for treatments that work, so it’s okay to pay for ones you can afford that don’t work? Lol bad logic.

[@mrbushi1062]

The distrust of science and medicine is wild. The anti intellectualism in culture to day is heartbreaking​@@t.c3174

[@Kai-om4qp]

Oh dear, a wanna be medicine bringer, who cares nothing but writing papers to get paid to put animals on medication

[@imCH4life]

Seriously.. your point is : if you can't afford the proper way to know for sure what's really going wrong, so it kinda make sense too pick the cheapest treatment and move up untill it works?? Beside the facts it won't works most of the time.. you don't get trigger.. morally ... I understand the principle of desperate people.. desperate meusure.. to hear he has been referred by a vet..i doubt it big time!! Or maybe, his way to thank his vet friend is to not plugging-in its cie. It's disinformation..he brings no reliable source, a wrong medical explanation or a diagnostic base on nothing.. Anyway..

[@jeannethompson3880]

THANK YOU!!! ER vet here. I hope this client information gets to every client ever with a T3-L3 myelopathy, hold, ANY myelopathy. That dog looked so painful! And what was that torture gun?!?!?

[@drbyrddvm]

Vet: your dog has a high risk of spinal cord compression and lifelong disability. Be super gentle as his back could break further and please get to a specialist right away. Animal Cracker: *applies jack hammer to back*

[@comesahorseman]

Veterinary technician here, over 30 years experience in small animal medicine. As it happens I've also had chiropractic therapy for lower spinal arthritis. I've had that "jackhammer" used on my back; it was non painful and at least somewhat helpful in relieving my spinal symptoms when combined with other therapies. My suggestion is to be a little more careful with your descriptive terms.

[@justbg]

@@comesahorseman Yeah I was just about to say that. I assume they haven't felt one before and are going off the sound of it.

[@DripLovesYou]

Yet, the vet wasn’t able to fix the dog, and Animal cracker did

[@noway9081]

@@DripLovesYou You didn't listen to anything the vet said at all did you? The vet the owner went to recommended emergency MRI to see if there was anything seriously wrong with the dog based upon the symptoms she was showing and maybe possibly emergency surgery based upon what the results of the MRI were. You have no idea (and neither does the Animal cracker) if he actually fixed anything or if whatever the underlying problem is is still there and the symptoms just lessened. He just assumed that he's fixed whatever is wrong because the dog didn't show symptoms for the few minutes after the treatment while the cameras were rolling. I once had an older dog who one day was unable to walk. We thought it was a herniated disc or joint problems but the vet told us that given the symptoms we should do a full MRI scan. It turns out my dog did not have any disc problems but had suffered a stroke. Thank goodness it was a minor one and we were able to care for him for another year until he passed. Had we gone to the Animal cracker, he would have just twisted his legs, declared him "even" and sent us on our way just assuming that it was a joint issue.

[@drbyrddvm]

@@justbg I was making a joke, I've actually enjoyed my experience at the chiropractor. It's not that the instrument is ALWAYS bad, it's that the interventions in the video are particularly ignorant because of the type of disease. The Animal Cracker is doing something that can cause serious, irreparable, damage to the spinal cord. This dog is checking a lot of boxes for IVDD. This is a disease of the spinal cord commonly seen in small, long dogs. Essentially, the protective tunnel of bone and cushion (disc material) becomes unstable and squishes the nerves. This is painful and stops the nerves from working. Treatment is usually surgery to remove the stuff that's squishing the spinal cord. In mild cases, we can sometimes keep the dog still for 3-6 weeks on pain medications and it will "heal" or improve. The LAST thing this dog should be doing is walking around, twisting, and stretching. He doesn't even get a gentle massage. Nope he stays safe, quiet, and chill while we try to restore some stability to his spine. Every intervention in the video demonstrates how poorly the Animal Cracker understands the anatomy (relationship of disc to spinal cord) and suspected disease. Jolts, percussion, and movement all run the risk of further destabilizing the tunnel. This dog is incredibly lucky that the visit did not strip him of the ability to walk, pee, and poop normally. This is a really thorough overview of the disease for owners: dvsc.com/medical_library/intervertebral-disc-disease/

[@Chica0816]

I have a frenchie just like her, same color and shes epileptic. Her back as well is sensitive and she hates it being touched. I appreciate your input on this video because your input is helpful on everything with my dog, so thank you very much 😭. I've also spoken to veterinarians as well to see if chiropractors will help and they have the same opinion as you :) Thank you for putting out this advice, I intend on spreading your word :).

[@lisachase979]

I'm SO glad you pointed out that they did not show the gait prior to treatment because that bothered me SO much!! I too think that was quite the diservice to vet med the way they implied that vet made the wrong recommendation as they talk from the perspective of several days in the future. I once tried to hospitalize a dog after a severe toxin exposure and the owner declined and took the dog home AMA. I did my due diligence and warned them that their dog could die. Thankfully it survived. She came back to yell at me days later because her dog lived when I said it might die... 🤷

[@zakkfrazer22]

I really really really appreciate you showing the study name when you referred to them. Citing your pod, very very clever.

[@urbanflora4116]

I suspect the owner wasn’t even referred to Dr. Doug. People find him from his youtube following and book their own appointments. Most likely, the owner refused an MRI due to cost and wanted to seek alternative treatment. Secondly, he’s a human chiropractor. Not a DVM. I haven’t seen any references to him having any proper education/credentials to be performing chiropractic services on animals, although these videos account for the majority of his popularity. Thanks for another great video! I’m a vet tech student and I hope to work alongside a neurologist one day.

[@urbanflora4116]

He definitely shouldn’t be touching cases that involve spinal cord injuries. He should stick to aiding animals with arthritis and stiffness (as a secondary therapy option)

[@mikedaub1991]

I’m an ER vet, I cringed so hard when they let the dog run at the end. Also they failed to mention if the dog was on anti-inflammatory or pain meds. So many things wrong with this chiropractor.

[@KayLoo202]

I had to block someone in my dog epilepsy FB support group because he kept promoting chiropractors for seizure treatment. So irritating.

[@DVMCellini]

😬

[@KayLoo202]

@@DVMCellini the old chestnut of "IT WORKED FOR MY DOG!!" He didn't seem to get that it was likely the pheno he started at the same time that is making the difference.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

Chiropractor…for seizure treatment? What does a bad back or a stiff shoulder have to do with epilepsy?!

[@lorigravelin2081]

My Great Pyrenees/Border Collie has epilepsy and is on potassium bromate , Keppra and pheno baratol, (sp) and has been diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy and none of the vets involved have suggested or recommended chiropractic care. I have friends that use a pet chiropractor and swear by it. I’ve thought of it cause I’d do anything to help my boy. Maybe not after reading these comments.

[@zaynes5094]

@@lorigravelin2081 I mean, my older sister is a yoga instructor and she has one of her students and friends who is a animal massage therapist and does things in several sessions, and it allowed for my sister to have an extra few years with her dog who was getting old and hurt very often in his teens, he's gone now at 14, but his pain was pretty much gone from about 10-13 and gave him an extra few great years of more activity. She swears that getting the friend to do a dog massage actually works for some larger dog breeds.

[@worrell3831]

I told my cousin about all the issues French Bulldogs have after he paid $15k for one. His response "I am gonna make so much money from the puppies. More than all of you will make in a year". Kill me now.

[@DVMCellini]

Oooook

[@pawpkitty]

​@@DVMCellini I know this is an older video but is it true that frenchies can't give birth naturally? Or is that just bulldogs?

[@lauraunderwood626]

The dog looked so stressed out :(

[@DVMCellini]

agreed

[@denaadams6818]

I’ve been a vet tech for 30 yrs. I’m 71 and have been forced into retirement from a lumbar spine fusion. I’m in total agreement with you. MRI first. Dr Doug is a human chiropractor not a vet in any form. Like everyone in vet medicine in these comments thank you for comments on this video. They were eye opening. I hate it that a lot of people believe everything that he’s saying. Our recommendation is usually the same as yours. Lots of times the outcome is great.

[@dtcdtc8328]

Ouch Dena , I unfortunately can relate . I was forced out of my chosen career due to an auto accident ( by someone who had no license, no insurance and stolen tags smh) it resulted in 3 disc herniations and a fractured vertebrae. I was sent to a Chiropractor, yep , believe that ? After I vomited from pain and got passed the whole "You're drug seeking" BS I had a mylogram which showed the fractured L4. What a mess .... I opted against surgery, having met a friend who had very similar injuries as I do , he had the same procedure they wanted to do on me and he told me not to do it . They threatened me with "no more pain meds if you don't get surgery" and my response was Ok great, thanks for the push to get off those dang drugs. I didn't know which way was up and had more pain than ever. 13 years of being pain med free , feels great. I'm definitely not "healed" but I am way better off than I was back then . It sounds silly but walking, everyday, has helped me tremendously. Anyways , I hope you're doing well and thanks to you Doc for highlighting the dangers of doing Chiropractic w/out MRIs. Still to this day on humans they do Xrays only then send for PT , it makes not sense to me. Unless you look at the cost difference between Xray and MRI .

[@squinn1179]

Love your videos. My mini schnauzer had an FCE 4 months ago, diagnosed with mri.. There is a great specialty neurologist clinic in my area, so thankful for them!

[@DVMCellini]

#1 breed for it

[@rocksaltcomando]

Well when you can afford the $8-10k for the MRI plus surgery at these great speciality neurologists clinics, you’ll do what you can to help your dog. There are miracle stories about chiropractic care for animals just like there are horror stories. Most land somewhere in the middle. I’m hoping for just some relief for my poor dog

[@jenniferwong4530]

I had such bad epicondylitis in both arms that the surgeon I saw was going to shave my tendons off the bone. In a last ditch effort to avoid surgery, I saw a well known chiropractor near Ottawa, Canada. I'm a registered nurse and didn't think very highly of chiropractic, but after 3 sessions I got the use of my arms back. That was 20 years ago and I haven't had a recurrence. Are some chiropractors quacks? I think so, but in the right hands chirpractic can be life changing.

[@MrSephirothJenova]

Chiropractic therapy won't directly heal your body, or "realign" anything. However, it can be a good pain relief and may reduce inflammation just due to the stretch. In your case, your body mightve healed on its own while the chiropractor kept the pain down, and gave you temporary mobility from the stretching.

[@jennylivesey3518]

Absolutely agree with you. My grandson had terrible pain in the knee and had to stop running had X-rays etc only option knee surgery and painkillers. Sent him to a chiropractor after one session and a very detailed one at that. He could actually walk on it the next day and started to also do some of the recommended muscle and strength building exercises. He is now able to run and playing football without any problems. Only cost was £70 well worth it to put a smile back on his face.

[@feliciagaffney1998]

Agreed. Some chiropractors are quacks, just as some Dr's are quacks and should not be treating people or animals. I'm putting this here b/c if I put it on the main chat, I feel like all the MD supporters will come after me. Lol. And then I'll take my post down. I know there's a huge rivalry between MD's and PT's against Chiropractors. But, I'd not be able to function without my chiropractor. My ankles have... I forget the term, but excessive movement, and they turn easily on solid ground sometimes, I don't even have to step in a hole. I get regular chiropractic care, and when I have a good chiropractor, my ankles stay more stable. He also reduces my neck, shoulder, and hip issues. So... I think it's unfair for Dr Cellini to be analyzing and criticizing Dr Doug because they are doing different things. Dr. Doug ISN'T changing/"fixing" neurological issues. And the back legs can be shorter. My pelvis is twisted, I've had at least 6 different people with different specialties look at me and tell me that. It ISN'T neurological, it's structural. No one said Dr Doug is fixing neurological issues, and HE wouldn't tell you he is fixing neurological issues. After my chiropractic adjustment, my legs aren't different lengths. That's not to say they stay like that forever. And my treatments can hurt sometimes, things can be tender before I go in. That doesn't mean that my chiropractic treatment isn't helping me. But, I do agree that Dr Doug should be looking at imaging before working on an animal which could have some neurological issues. I think chiropractic care has its place, just as allopathic medicine. I also think that PT and chiropractic can work very well, hand-in-hand. Again... they fix different things. And chiropractors are more than happy to be a part of treatment that also includes PT.

[@garhent]

@@MrSephirothJenova 20 years of functionality is very temporary, it has to be at least 30 years before you have a minimal result from the chiropractor.

[@Tiisiphone]

No chiropractor will ever touch my pets' spine. Or mine, for the matter.

[@DVMCellini]

Same

[@e.agoraphobicdickinsonpoet660]

Never let a chiropractor touch your neck‼️Dogs , too‼️

[@Lady.B0420]

I have had numerous adjustments. After years of struggling with multiple back and hip issues, I was able to permanently get off of pharmaceutical pain killers and now have no pain. Without surgery, which was recommended multiple times. Something absolutely NO physician was ever able to do for me. While there are definitely benefits to traditional medicine, there are also definite benefits to chiropractic care as well.

[@Megan-May]

I know nothing about animals, but my fiancé was electrocuted 7200vtz on the job as a journeyman lineman, he woke up a quadriplegic along with other horrible injuries from the accident. Part of therapy we used a thera gun to help stimulate the nerves in his body that have been affected. His feet started moving after using the gun multiple times a day. He now walks with a walker. I think it helped the process with other therapy.

[@rhiannn3416]

Peripheral nerves can (somewhat) heal. CNS nerves cannot.

[@imCH4life]

And we miss the point of yours husband been through a bunch of many tests.. here there is none really.. it's almost like watching a guy claiming that he can reanimate a dog by throwing SPECIAL water at him.. indeed the dog will stand up after getting wake-up by splashing..

[@cr0wl3t55]

Thank you for this, it was very informative. I work as a receptionist and veterinary assistant at a hospital that allows a chiropractor to use one of our rooms twice a week. It makes me wildly uncomfortable but my medical director is personal friends with the chiropractor so nobody, even our practice manager, has been able to change his mind.

[@UlanSays]

Classic example of the imbalance of power that happens at most vet hospitals.. i live with a vet tech and people can be so power hungry and heartless with certain things in upper management

[@ankiking]

Some human doctors have the same issues with chiropractors, but people who are helped by them, swear by them.

[@dcndiamonds]

Thank you SO MUCH for these videos!! The entire vet community owes you for these, I might have to start sending clients your videos so I don’t have to waste my breath anymore 😂😂😂

[@DVMCellini]

lol please do! spread the word.

[@carefreecaninetraining]

As a certified dog trainer, I appreciate you commenting on the emotional stress of these patients too. I've worked with client dogs who went for chiropracty, sometimes even "preventative" (whatever that means), and end up with handling sensitivities or behavior problems related to handling afterwards. Likely due to the nature of prolonged invasive handling which is uncomfortable or painful. Very frustrating.

[@soniac8532]

Not everyone dumb@$$

[@sixmercer2504]

I need a good dog trainer so badly. Everyone's a scammer these days. They offer "lifetime" guarantees which are bogus because if the trainer did their job right the owner would know how to maintain it and even train more into their dog. It's the owner who you train. And then they say "we'll give you this print out we got from Google and put our name on, we'll see you 3 maybe 4 times in 9 months, hand over $3000. Or, it's bring your dog with a muzzle on, drop him off and we'll shock train him with an e-collar for his fear reactivity.....wait what? I learn far more on KZbin duh. The last trainer I interviewed who didn't implement an e-collar, said "nothing you say can offend me, all questions welcome." SO after the whole schpeal I said "what are you teaching me and my dog that I can't get with a click of the mouse on KZbin? And he said "I find that very offensive" then he kept my $1000 deposit saying he had to be paid for sitting on my couch for an hour telling me all about the program they offer which was 9 months and 4-6 visits but mainly everything would be by phone. He was the third trainer I interviewed who said that's basically all they offer for anywhere from $1500-$4000. Do you know any decent dog trainers in the Denver area? I don't even need that much help now other than building.his confidence and getting him out in public. Help?

[@AVspectre]

I hadn’t considered that element before.

[@PotooBurd]

This is so informative! Great job, fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝 Keep it up 🙌

[@thebrowninghomestead5557]

That guy has no idea what he's talking about. Thank you for this video.

[@ankiking]

Some regular doctors have the same problem with human chiropractors. But the people who get great relief from chiropractic work will continue to do so. Humans yelp when getting some adjustments too ;) I watch human chiropractors and this seems very similar to what happens there with similar results.

[@amberrider7275]

I love your passion on spreading the truth about animal chiropractors! I have a hard time watching those kind of videos because the animal always seems to be in pain some of them start to look like animal torture. 😢 Every vet I have ever taken my dogs to when an animal shows a sign of pain they stop.

[@DripLovesYou]

But isn’t also painful for you to see a vet giving surgery to a puppy? Also chiropractors also stop when the animal shows signs of pain, and they keep petting it to make it calm

[@Jo_youwhatmate]

@@DripLovesYou I'm going to assume you're a child but there is a difference between necessary life saving surgeries and chiropractic pseudo-science that believes a "crack" is all it takes to make animals better, especially since the practice is NOTORIOUS for severely injuring them

[@fighterflight]

I’ve seen a ton of them and I’ve never seen an animal that looks like it was in pain.

[@noahm5709]

​@@DripLovesYousurgeons go to school for 8 years. chiropractor liscences are unoffical. enough said

[@herpiegerbstick6808]

​@@noahm5709unofficial how? Pretty sure they're issued by the state...

[@KyleElias]

This is so painful to watch Dr. Jim - haha pun intended. I appreciate how you are calling out the incorrect terminology and neuroanatomy being used.. Its sad that most of the comments on the actual video are by the general public just praising the "miracle" being performed. I found one comment from what appears to be a pet owner pointing out MRI and reasons to get an opinion from a vet rather than a paramedical practitioner, who does not happen to have a veterinary degree 😓 - your faithful ER vet subscriber, Kyle

[@littleripper312]

My dog had four slipped discs and a bad leg. The vet told me to rest my dog for a few months and now the slipped discs are gone. The bad leg joint isn't going to heal. No amount of cracking would have changed things for my dog. I think it's best to trust vets, they aren't all perfect but they have the most training and medical knowledge.

[@jessakent2049]

Hah. Worked for vets (name the position, I've done it, including vet tech) for 25 years, and the second I watched this, I knew he was a quack. I looked at how the dog was standing, heard the timeline, the meds, and went, "She... got better." I'm certain the vet said "Get the MRI, let's see the results, we can take her to surgery if she needs it" and the owner didn't actually hear what the vet said. My last job for 10 years was literally re-iterating everything the vet said, going over why testing was necessary, sometimes interpreting. I know damn good and well that vet did not say "immediate surgery" without seeing the MRI results. I actually use a chiropractor myself (have gone from not being able to turn my head to the left to instant full range of motion after one (1) manipulation, not session, one single manipulation) so this isn't just a condemnation of chiropractic care, it's just that this guy is making crap up. He's cheating people and making a crapton of money off it. I see you did the Doctor Mike thing too. I *love* him but oh my god that video pissed me off. I stopped watching it after hearing him start talking about bandaging, haven't watched it, and I'm willing to bet that was improper bandaging by the owner.

[@williamgow6325]

Great video! Keep up the good work.

[@DVMCellini]

Thank you!

[@Mibit911]

Honestly this is how ive unlocked the secret to being a world class sprinter. I have trained my neck muscles to allow rapid back and forth movements, so each time i look left my right leg raises up and vice versa. They call me the epileptic lightning storm. When im runing and shaking my head back and forth no one can stop me from running fast or from maintaining one solid direction.

[@marxist-leninist-protagonist]

Like those fast food toys that you spam the switch and the legs move

[@zyembla]

Hats off to you for making this video

[@alexandraochoa5127]

Dr Cellini, I am a aspiring RVT and current vet assistant. Any tips to keep going in this crazy yet amazing career? You’re my favorite, I’d appreciate any advice ! 🐾✨

[@DVMCellini]

Set boundaries and do not get caught up in the blackhole of staying long past your shift. If your shift is 9-5 so be it. Make that clear from day 1.

[@julianhugo-perez2182]

A- Men!! I could not agree more

[@shelbyscout]

I had a beagle with IVDD. She had three episodes of hind leg weakness and pain. Our vet recommended steroids and strict crate rest for several weeks, which took care of the problem each time. The fourth time, she woke up completely paralyzed in her hind legs. Did i rush her to an animal chiropractor? Hell no. I took her to a top notch specialty practice where they did an MRI and then surgery. She made a full recovery.

[@denicelucas8483]

Love your videos!😊

[@EmmaTheCowie]

As someone with two dogs, the thought of someone doing this to either of them makes me equally sad and angry. Just…NO! I’ve seen these kind of videos come across my YT Shorts etc. and I just scroll past as I don’t want to give these channels the views. Thank you for the well informed video, Dr C 👏🏼

[@dawnalbright]

Thank you for this. I can't believe I was considering chiropractic for my dog, when I would never go to a chiropractor myself. My dog has hurt his back somehow (probably jumping onto high places), and I think I will just have him rest until his regular vet has an opening in their schedule. You are being really polite not to shout: Snake Oil!!

[@michelleborchardt199]

I love using adjunctive care, but not with proper diagnostics/diagnosis and evidence that the care being provided is safe/helpful. My former dog had disc surgery on three different occasions (all very successful) and coupled with after care including acupuncture with a practitioner who collaborated with my dog’s neurologist to discuss the case before consulting with us. Thanks for your insights from this video!

[@johnsese1427]

Your video is a lifesaver! Thanks!

[@artfullofheart1]

Just starting to watch your video and 3:21 in. Glad you liked his patience and kindness when first introducing himself to the the dog. I too believe in slow and steady and wanting the animal to be comfortable with the vet or handler. I must not have heard what you heard as I felt he was describing several different things the dogs problem could be. One thing after another. You were giving the medical terms for each separate description as he went along. No one would talk about several totally different explanations about one diagnosis. But I might be wrong and just watching 3 minutes won't tell me much about the pros and cons. So I'll watch the rest later as it's 3 in the morning lol and I'm beat. The above was just my immediate reaction to what he was talking about. Just by hearing you speak I can tell that you're very knowledgeable about the meaning of different explanations and that you care very much about animals and your animal patients. Good night for now.

[@zsoltvaradi8387]

😂 OMG! I couldn’t stop laughing! I loved your reaction and comments! This is so unbelievably sad what people do to make money and fool owners! Owners Beware!!! Thank you for putting out this video! I’m Dr. Varadi! I’m currently preparing for the NAVLE! I enjoy all your videos! Thank you for your work as a neurologist!

[@EH9]

Even for humans, most of their treatments like high velocity adjustments, the risks and benefits are not known even by the practitioners. So it's already wrong but at least people get to decide for themselves to do it or not. For them to do it on a pet, is just insane.

[@caseymurray7722]

Idk I've always felt better after going to the chiropractor and getting a massage. It seriously does work but it's only temporary. An adjustment really has to be followed by changing whatever caused you to go in the first place.

[@seaor2k122]

Wouldn't you agree that it's more insane to do it in a human than a dog?

[@Jo_youwhatmate]

@@caseymurray7722 You always felt better because you believe it makes you feel better...that is why you continue to get them, Chiropractic operation does not do anything to solve issues resulting from pain, in fact it's more likely to exacerbate it

[@caseymurray7722]

@@Jo_youwhatmate Have you never gotten an adjustment or massage? I literally went from unable to sleep without pain to feeling much better. Massages are different and are proven to be effective but adjustments can be just as beneficial. It's not a placebo effect. And regardless of long term benefit it still provides an immediate relief and feels great.

[@jill3621]

Exactly, I have had horrible neck pain where I couldn't even turn my head to the side. One good big crack and a rush of relief and suddenly I could turn my head without pain. Chiropractic works for people and we'll just let these skeptics continue with their pain medicine to treat the symptoms rather than the cure... @@caseymurray7722

[@bevalexander5897]

There is no way I would ever let an “animal chiropractor” touch any pet of mine, especially one that already comes with genetic issues. I understand the cost of an mri is very high, so why not get a second opinion from another vet, instead of risking further injury by someone actively manipulating a possible spinal injury?

[@darklingnz8017]

I'm not sure of the legitimacy of all those doing adjustments on animals but I do know of someone who had a positive result. Guy I know through work how has a blue heeler, he was told by a few vets that the injury to his dogs leg was unfixable and they recommended euthanising him. We were all gutted when he got the news as he is a lovely dog with a happy temprement. He found someone who did some chiro adjustments on him and he is back to being a happy playful dog. Its been over a year since and he hasn't had any further leg problems!

[@DVMCellini]

my suspicion is whatever happened healed on its own and not due to chiro

[@darklingnz8017]

@@DVMCellini The dog was unable to use the leg for an extended period and then the instant it was adjusted it miraculously healed? Have you ever had an adjustment yourself? Its amazing how quick a proper adjustment can relieve pain and return mobility. If it healed on its own (instantly and suddenly at the same moment it was adjusted) then the multiple vets that suggested putting it down must have been complete morons and don't deserve to practice because of ineptitude. I've had many adjustments myself after injuries and had instant relief and return of mobility. If you've never been I suggest you have a go sometime.

[@danemiller4852]

​@@DVMCellinimy suspicion is you're losing money competing with simple procedures.

[@DVMCellini]

@@danemiller4852 tough competing with chiropractors

[@bujfvjg7222]

Suspicion isn't enough to make a diagnosis

[@mikayla2116]

I admire your professionalism in your delivery because this trend pisses me off.

[@heartfulhounds]

Thank you for making this and other videos. So much of that video made me cringe:< People go to specialists, orthopedists, radiologist, etc. My dog came up with a strange lameness that was difficult to isolate (though I knew he had an issue) my regular vet and I agreed to take him to vet orthopedic vet... Board Certified Veterinary Surgeon/ specialty in orthopedics and arthroscopic surgery. They also had specialized rehab staff and facilities. I was so lucky to have that facility within driving distance. I have a dog with Epilepsy now well controlled with help from my vet and added Veterinary Neurologist- who had detailed information for options and meds. I am also aware that many areas do not have these options available very easily, and now there is a shortage of of vets in general many locations.

[@EMMY.LOU.CHIHUAHUA]

Can you tell me what the neurologist is doing or prescribing for his epilepsy?

[@shimonbiton2163]

Good job! Keep exposing these scammers.

[@schlagzeugerin3289]

SHOUTOUTS TO ALL THOSE CORNELL CVM PROFS ON THE CANNABIDIOL TREATMENT PAPER!!!! Sometimes I forget exactly how badass my professors are but you just reminded me! :)

[@yaha1313131313]

🤣 every time you make the "what is he even doing" face. Dyingggg!!!

[@flyingdaniela]

I really hope you continue to make videos! They are so inspiring and informative!

[@DVMCellini]

I am! Just been busy with work and babies

[@greatveemon2]

It's not about if it making sense or not. If people could find a relieve for their suffering, people will do it. I've seen a lot of people still suffering after they seen a specialist and lose almost of their life savings.

[@ferofferd7429]

For people, it's possible through the placebo effect but I don't think you could convince an animal to heal using that.

[@crypto_radio9653]

Dr. Cellini, can you do a review of your thoughts on acupuncture for neuro dogs?

[@M_J456]

Thank you so much for posting this! As an aspiring veterinarian I occasionally watched these types of videos but never really got too interested. It’s good to hear from an actual veterinarian about the efficacy of these types of treatments and listen to them break down what may or may not be happening in these videos. But at the same time as an avid equestrian Ive heard many stable managers normalise chiropractors for horses and I know that “The Animal Cracker” has quite a few examples of working with horses. Do you think this normalisation is well placed and may have actual positive results? Or do you think it’s another case of avoiding potential vet bills etc.

[@davidhakes3884]

What the heck is wrong with trying to save some money??? The very day that animal insurance went into Vet clinics is when animal care got way too expensive and some vets are just $$ Grabbers I could site over 100 examples.

[@M_J456]

@@davidhakes3884 Not meaning this in a bad way, but I literally didn't mention money except for the last sentence?

[@vettech8509]

As an owner of a Coton de Tulear with IVDD, I would never take my dogs to see one of these quacks. Having pet insurance allowed me to give her the treatment she needed as recommended by my boarded neuro and it paid 90% of MRI costs with subsequently laminectomy. Please pet parents: insure your dogs! I also cringed when the chiro let this Frenchie run, let alone on a floor without good footing.

[@cliveferguson1260]

Great video Doc

[@bnaseams]

Have you ever heard something so wrong you’re just like “…what?” Basically me watching parts of the video. Definitely agree with this reaction.

[@jessiepearson338]

I am no vet, I am an animal lover though (currently have 2 cats, tortoises and tarantulas) so I do find myself watching vet videos most of my youtube time for fun, and I actually came across this Dr Doug and was wondering how legit he actually is. He is talking about things he clearly doesnt understand, its dangerous... misinformation is a terrible thing in the wrong hands. Thank you for clearing some things up about this particular video, I actually watched it before youtube recommended your video and I really appreciate the time you took to clarify it. you have a new subscriber ^^

[@mammoneymelon]

i'm losing my mind at the comments talking about their personal experiences with chiros. dude, we are talking about ANIMALS. psychology plays a huge part in any medical treatment, which is a part of why people sometimes get better results with alternative medicine than traditional. it's literally the placebo effect: you are so desperate for relief that your brain convinces you that it's helping. of course i'm sure chiropractors do help some people through actual physical treatment, but a lot of it is mental, especially those cracks (our brains like the sound/feeling so it sends out the happy hormones, even if there's no physiological reason for that to relieve pain). ANIMALS DO NOT THINK THE WAY WE DO. OUR PETS DON'T KNOW WHAT DOCTORS ARE. THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING, THEY PUT UP WITH IT BECAUSE THEY TRUST THEIR OWNER TO PROTECT THEM. dogs don't experience the placebo effect because they don't even know why someone is touching them and making them uncomfortable. dogs, especially small ones, are much easier to injure than we are and you really shouldn't mess with any part of the spinal cord unless you know exactly what the problem is because you could literally paralyze the animal or cause a stroke. conflating the human body and psychological responses to that of animals that literally don't know what a doctor is doesn't make any sense this whole thing just annoys me so much, i would never in a million years take my dog to a chiropractor unless i'd exhausted literally every other option under the sun

[@eastwaters4082]

A mammal’s physiology is similar in many animals, in fact a dog or a horse is closest in bone structure to humans. If people can just convince themselves they’re feeling better because they’re desperate, why don’t doctors just tell their patients that so they don’t die from their conditions?

[@michellew6097]

THANK YOU for calling them out, more people need to see this!

[@MTGBella]

*pauses video* ‘This is incorrect’ 😂 love this

[@controlclerk]

I can't believe how big this is. I first heard of a horse chiropractor 20 or so years ago at a rodeo and it was literally a joke. Dude pushing on a horse thinking he was adjusting it. Everyone laughed at him.

[@RibbonArmyBlue]

Would you be able to do an analysis on the Dog Ciropactor going around om shorts right now? I'm actually more worried about the work he is doing.

[@DVMCellini]

Who is it?

[@CoachKarin]

And like all the doctors that told me I needed surgery and all it took was the right chiropractor and someone that listened!

[@Driftingsushi]

As a human medical student, the same reason a dog shouldn't get spinal adjustments are the same reasons a human shouldn't get chiro.

[@Vic-tz3gl]

Hey I have a question for you Dr. Cellini. I was scrolling through the comments and saw a comment where you said you would recommed acupuncture to animals sometimes. May I ask why? I read through some studies where they said both acupuncture and chiropractor appointments yield zero benefit for people. Is this different for animals? I just figured if you didnt believe in one, you wouldnt believe in the other. If youd like, I can try and find those studies so you could see exactly what information I am going off. Looking forward to your response Dr. Cellini, thanks.

[@DVMCellini]

My logic is there’s no way I can think of, that acupuncture can worsen anything. So any time there’s 0 risk, I generally have an open mind to trying it, while always advising that it may not work and/or no evidence of benefit.

[@Vic-tz3gl]

@@DVMCellini okay, that makes sense. I appreciate your response and how you articulate your knowledge and thought process in your videos

[@JBo77]

My 10 year old boxer (unfortunately with docked tail) struggled to get onto couch and could no longer jump into bed for about 6-8 months. I was told about a local chiropractor so I gave it a shot and after 5-6 sesstion over a few months Charlie (my dog) got onto the couch without a struggle and could again jump onto bed on his own if im not around to help him.

[@CodeMonkeyDave]

Dude bro wtf?! Thank you for bringing this to everyones attention. Totally subbed and shit.

[@davidclarkson8735]

Vet GP perspective: while I must recognize that we are probably in an echo chamber, THANK YOU!

[@DVMCellini]

no problem at all :)

[@dumbcat]

would be interested in a video on your thoughts about people teaching their pets to communicate with buttons on the floor

[@kaosz7777]

The original vet should sue him for defamation.

[@stephaniec.4384]

Thanks Dr. Cellini. I cringe and worry whenever my best friend goes to a chiropractor every month.

[@caseymurray7722]

Why lol? I mean going every month means there's an underlying condition but an adjustment followed by a massage helps a ton. I've literally had a case where I couldn't sleep on one side because of my shoulder hurting and one visit fixed it. The problem was actually from a crappy chair and desk setup that was causing pain over time. Unless you've got an x-ray going into an appointment plus a massage and then actively reduce the problem afterwards, a chiropractor isn't going to help but otherwise it will.

[@BuntingClipClop]

Thanks for this. I was wondering, after watching him adjust a very patient horse.

[@joa8593]

Watching him use that activator thing on the neck was scary. I have a massage gun that came with a warning that it can cause stoke if used on the neck and it is much weaker than those things. Maybe the risk isn't significant, but it's the first thing I thought of I'd be curious your thoughts on acupuncture. I understand the evidence is stronger for efficacy compared to chiropractic, but I imagine that's disturbing to most animals as well.

[@scheyenesparkman2291]

How do you feel about vestibular disease and the dog? My dog has that and his x-rays that says OK

[@maskedcreator4525]

Finally, someone that makes sense to me! Thank you

[@jiaswan22]

Any thoughts on acupuncture for dogs? Seems less risky than the chiropractor as long as the patient is cooperative/calm. I know a person whose dog had acupuncture with the hope of easing arthritis in the hind limbs. Results were…unclear to maybe favorable, but the dog fell asleep during the treatment so the dog at least wasn’t distressed about it.

[@DVMCellini]

I have 0 problem with it. Not sure if it works but I can’t see how it could possibly hurt anything. For that reason I saw why not.

[@DVMCellini]

*say

[@ShadowBunnyification]

Animal acupuncture is pretty much useless. My favourite example is a veterinary acupuncture textbook diagram showing where to place needles in horses suffering from gall bladder problems- except horses don't even have gall bladders! Most of the veterinary acupuncture learning materials are just the human charts that have been transposed on to animals.

[@crnky1976]

the massage device (i think its called a jack hammer) isnt used to treat a neurological disfunction i think chiropractors use these to loosen the muscles so their adjustments are easier and with their adjustments they are trying to fix the neurological disfunction (im not a chiropractor i just watch a lot of chiropractor videos so i could be wrong) but great video its interesting hearing a vets opinion on this

[@KarenPritsch]

If I understand it correctly, the out of alignment of a joint puts pressure on the nerves, ligaments, etc. If you have a dislocated shoulder, which is a joint, needs to be manually reset, which is similar to this process. After 35 years, as a recipient of Chiro. care, I was helped. Prior to help, I could not lift my head or shoulders due to a Subluxation in my Cervical spine! Unless you have been helped by a Chiro., you will not understand the relief you get!

[@orenaofer]

Great video, keep 'em coming. Guy should be called Animal Quack-er.

[@Saiyan_B]

Hey, I don’t know if you respond to these questions, but uh. I have a cat who literally sucks and chews on himself like someone eating messy BBQ ribs. The vet says it’s over grooming and gave him gabapentin and I bought that feliway stuff. My issue is, if I stop the feliway, he immediately goes back to being aggressive with our female cat and plays to rough to the point she can’t get away from him. Any suggestions? He’s 8, I’ve had him since he was a kitten. The overgrooming started after our other cat was euthanized for old age. The aggressive play has always been a thing, but our other cat didn’t take his shit and would attack him. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@DVMCellini]

See a vet behaviorist! You can search them online (acvb website).

[@crystalkarlson5491]

I am dying right now!!! No way in hell I would ever do this to ANY ANIMAL!!! Is this guy for real?

[@carolinehale6724]

Thank you for this, it’s really informative, I found it after finding out someone I know has booked her dog in to see a chiropractor. Besides just sending them this video, how would you approach someone who was planning on taking their dog to a chiro before trying a vet?

[@DVMCellini]

Just have them look up evidence for it in pubmed. When they find nothing let that speak for itself.

[@honorafox4709]

I keep seeing Tiktok ads of some tattooed jerk absolutely cracking animals' necks violently and then the animal growls and lunges at him. His excuse is played off as basically they just got caught off guard and it scared them but they feel better! Dude, This is FREAKING INSANE!! 😢😡

[@BlondieSL]

About that instrument that quack is using around 13:50 area... THAT IS VERY DANGEROUS and there's a version for humans too. I know....because I have one. Thing of that thing as a mini jack hammer. It works pretty much the same way. The end inside the unit is weighted and has a magnet cluster on it. It sits inside a coil (it's really just a one-shot motor) and when he hits the trigger, the piston pulses in and out. Due to the force, this can literally cripple a dog... (or a human for the human one). Imagine having a herniated disk and then having the point of that thing bashing against that disk and the herniation! Cut your finger, then bash it with a small hammer. That's kind of what's happening. The one I have, I got due to sciatic impingement and adhesions. It too pulses in and out, with a lot of force if set too high. I did hurt myself a bit when I tried it right near a bulging disk. After that, I never let it touch my spine. The only used it for was to try and release an adhesion in the piriformis muscle/sciatic nerve area. It took a while, but it did release it enough to where I could release it more manually. What a relief! But for dogs/animals, this is bad. VERY BAD! And clearly, that quack has no idea what he's doing. To be honest, I see him as nothing more than a SCAMMER!

[@Woolsa]

the dog running on the slippery floors at the end of the video had me cringing

[@DVMCellini]

I know. Like what if the dog reherniates a disc, cries out, and is suddenly paralyzed. Does he just go “whoops”?

[@clytemnestra]

great video!

[@DVMCellini]

Thanks!

[@chezokeke]

Preach!!!!! Please get good information out there. Save these poor pets from these quacks that mock our profession.

[@rhondaleate560]

Question .. I know in massachusetts, licensed chiropractors are NEVER allowed to work on any animals unless they are working under a veterinarian’s supervision & license .. or, has their own both a vet’s plus chiropractor license So, is this not in effect where this dog is? He wouldn’t survive doing this in Mass - he’d be up on charges in court !

[@DVMCellini]

Doesn’t look like it!

[@NicholasSladenDew]

Thanks for this.

[@splitdragon3004]

Just a note, chiropractors hurt. Even for people with real professionals, you dont go to relax, it hurts like hell. When you realign the spine you cant do just one oart, you have to do everything. Chiropractors also need multiple appointments because its not a permanent solution, however yeah, a lot of what the chiropractor said was bs

[@raeesterlina6941]

This is like watching a charismatic pastor "fix" a shorter leg.

[@penelopeplimsoul3617]

Thanks for your insight. New sub.

[@mitchmccracken3050]

Dr. Cellini I think the most interesting conversation to have about all this is whether or not you think the chiropractors themselves believe what they are saying and doing or if they know it’s all a show ;)

[@SubmitToTheBiomass]

Probably varies from quack to quack. Some fraudsters get so caught up with their bullshit that they actually kind of start to believe it, but I'm guessing most know exactly what they're (not) doing.

[@imle9279]

I went to a chiropractor when I was around 11, she was cracking my joints here and there, and BOOM my hip. My hip wasn't aligned, one half was higher up than the other, and when I finished, I realized that one leg was shorter than the other, not by a lot but the difference was still there. it was insane! Anyway, yeah, that was my experience, tho I doubt the same thing would happen to this dog, because from the start it looked aligned so I don't get how he came to that conclusion.

[@marsm4159]

He always had to tell the owner and the viewers that "it cracked" after his "adjustment"

[@GriffinMusicOfficial]

I’m extremely unfamiliar with animal anatomy and when seeing these compilations for the first time I thought this was a hard science. Now after hearing this vet explain how wrong this is it looks like animal abuse to me! Scamming owners and abusing the dog!!

[@tigressnsnow]

I’m surprised that medical practitioners still have huge issues with chiropractors. I’m in my early 70’s and have always attended chiropractors since my 20’s especially after a fall. Without rebalancing myself, physical issues will get worse.

[@bimgorling2036]

Having an ivdd dog myself I'm absolutely enraged by this! My little dude is 15,5 years old and a miniature dachshund/miniature pinscher mix who's been having issues stemming from his lower back on and off for about 3-4 years. When he has a flare-up the number one thing that is super important is to put him on a strict crate rest! They're to move their spine as little as possible for days/weeks/months/how long it takes in your specific case. If a dog has been completely lame there is no way in the world that it would be a good idea to go manipulating the spine four days later!!! And if a dog has such severe symptoms that it's been completely lame for a period of time you'd definitely want to get extensive scans before doing anything to the spine! This is so insanely dangerous to promote to unknowing dog owners out there!