Doctor Who Has Completely Destroyed Itself | EFAP Highlight

[@odigity]

"It's subversive. It's supposed to make you think it was a TV show but then it's actually dog shit."

[@mjbull5156]

It makes you think that the writer was doing work when he really spent the season playing Candy Crush.

[@mbob4337]

It's actually called lying to the audience. With the goal of being an asshole. There is only one reason you do this. To piss people off.

[@DickDickstein]

@@mjbull5156 Listen to what Alteori thinks he has been doing. Just complete destruction of the guy's entire being.

[@N4chtigall]

I would call it "shitversive"

[@pacmanrespector9552]

In a british show, the villain is a british man who wants to return Britain back to the British lol.

[@crimsonpotemkin]

Brought to you by the BBC, a parasite on the taxpayer.

[@xarion69]

I'd vote for him!

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Too many kingdom! Time to abolish all lords as lord Binface intended.

[@GB-mu9ue]

Lord Binface is cringe beyond belief. Probs a lefty.

[@GB-mu9ue]

Lmao free England from the English!!

[@Garrador876]

I mean, if you are intentionally trying to piss off the original audience and burn down the franchise around you, why not take inspiration from TLJ? It's practically the poster child for that kind of crap. Also, Platoon's "Why??" is absolutely perfect.

[@Garrador876]

@@QuarkGluonSpasma The levels of disgust, annoyance, and frustration are just **chef's kiss**

[@iamjurell]

​@@QuarkGluonSpasmaand yet

[@mayotango1317]

I find this season the same tropes as the old RTD era, nothing change.

[@GeekHelix]

The show is run by the BBC. I can completely believe they think that a British Man wanting Britain to be for the British is pure cartoonish evil, rather than a very bland position to take.

[@redchinhunt721]

I mean Disney is involved now as well no? Cause I mean in America at least that would be considered a very "conservative" position (anti-immigration I mean, like with Trump's wall and such), so I'm just saying I could very much see that being a result of Disney involvement as well, but I haven't watched since Peter Capaldi, so maybe I'm way off.

[@giulizpaviz6381]

​@@redchinhunt721 I don't know about British politics, but that's pretty much every leftist mentality. Even in Italy the left is like "you think that is better taking care of our own country and make it worth living for everyone instead of the migrants only? How dare you?! Do you want us back in the Mussolini's era?!"

[@professorakiba434]

Actually no. Badwolf is running the series this time around. The BBC's only connection now is called copyright. Otherwise no its not being run by the BBC this time around. Also not being run by Disney either. Disney has only rights to global distribution of the series and helping in its funding. All the decision making is going on at Badwolf. So you aren't really on point in your comment.

[@justinambru8529]

Atleast you won't say there isn't anti-British sentiment.

[@redchinhunt721]

@@professorakiba434 I mean that's what they SAY but I'd personally find it hard to believe Disney would invest that much without wanting to assert some control, plus seems to me as soon as disney got involved BAM doctor is gay and black lol

[@BigBroTejano]

It’s extremely funny that the mystery of the cloaked woman giving up her baby for unknown reasons was done better in the Meet the Robinsons cartoon then Doctor Who.

[@haku8135]

Why do people keep treating cartoons as if they're "lesser" forms of art? Some of the most amazing, mind blowing storytelling, character work and worldbuilding has been in cartoons. Animation is a fucking amazing entertainment medium that's grievously underused and undervalued. Meet the Robinsons is a fucking excellent movie, and this dogwater isn't worth spitting on.

[@auraguard0212]

The cloaked "woman" was strongly implied to be his own son.

[@_Sage967_]

@@haku8135 i think the point being made is that a one-off comedy movie with very little time by comparison managed to do the idea more justice than a century old series that has constantly been innovating and probably did a version of this plot point itself at some point better than this execution

[@AzayBae]

I was more satisfied by Courage the Cowardly Dog's origin than most recent protagonists

[@kinka9883]

​@auraguard0212 No? This is the first time I've ever even heard someone say this.

[@theagentsquidfiles504]

"We could subvert expectations by showing people that the meaningful thing they expected was actually something else with it's own meaning, but we'd rather subvert expectations by telling people something is meaningful but in reality it's not" and that's powerful or whatever.

[@insensitive919]

It's like there was an unreliable narrator except at the end the narrator tries gaslighting you.

[@kaykutcher2103]

It makes the Doctor look like an idiot for thinking she was special. I both can and can't believe that was this whole revamp's punchline.

[@_Sage967_]

@@kaykutcher2103 bold of them to make the overtly queer doctor look so incompetent/inept. previous doctors were goofy and had their own failures but you'd be hard-pressed to call virtually any of them incompetent

[@theagentsquidfiles504]

@@_Sage967_ 13th

[@daedalus6433]

@@theagentsquidfiles504She is more uncaring of anyone else than anything

[@buzzsawkhan]

Hey, remember when Captain Jack grabbed onto the outside of the Tardis, which caused it to travel to the End of Time in an attempt to shake him off? Apparently, either RTD doesn't remember that, or feels that the Tardis is much less upset at an Alien Death God hitching a ride than an immortal bisexual. How very homophobic of it.

[@Snoozytube]

The immortal bisexual guy was cool though

[@georgechapman9688]

​@Snoozytube he is better than this doctor

[@buzzsawkhan]

@@Snoozytube Captain Jack had more charisma (and was vastly better "representation") in a single, random episode than this "Doctor's" entire run.

[@mayotango1317]

That was in Utopia.

[@mayotango1317]

​@@buzzsawkhanNo really, Ncuti Gatwa is pure charisma.

[@atomicdancer]

Legend has it that baby Rags was just dropped off on Mauler's doorstep one day by a mysterious woman who never said a single word. She just pointed at a pile of tattered clothes on the ground and then disappeared...

[@Aa-dn1oq]

Some say she pointed to a DVD copy of a 2012 nickelodeon movie but the jury's still out on which version is more accurate

[@_Church_]

Everything passed the 12th Doctor and Clara was a fever dream. He's just been sitting in the Tardis.

[@DrNiradino]

People give season 10 way to much flak for Bill's inability to shut up about her preference for tacos. Season was honestly solid. Missy and Nurgle were both great companions, majority of episodes in the series were quite good. Worst one, which I think was "lie of the land" was of at least passable quality, and finale was one of the best horror episodes that new who ever had.

[@Riseofziggy]

@@DrNiradinoactually she was a good companion and the season was fun not as good as capaldis first but not as bad as his second I mean sonic glasses really.

[@Fyrestar]

Season 10 was also good with some very solid episodes. It didn't get bad until Chibnall took over as writer

[@wardjunior1450]

@@DrNiradino she barely mentioned it. And when she did it was funny or something, never pandering. She was great.

[@TheWolfXCIX]

​@@DrNiradinoThe monk trilogy was boring and forgettable, but the worst episode was Oxygen

[@yaboiportch]

Do they at least explain why a 10-foot-tall death jackal would bother meddling with British immigration policy or nah?

[@mryellow6918]

We need to go back to shows preaching ideas instead of politics.

[@Rogue-a-Pogue]

You'd need a writer like George RR Martin for that.

[@ReddwarfIV]

​@@mryellow6918Not even necessarily that. They're just crap at it now. Take the Slitheen two-parter, _Aliens Of London_ and _World War Three._ It's satirising the unjustified invasion of Iraq, quite explicitly so... except it's aliens in charge. This worked pretty well. What does RTD do now when he wants to write a story about the threat of popular nativist politicians? He... writes about a popular nativist politician. They've forgotten how to write allegories.

[@HalfLifeScientist704]

He doesn’t

[@mryellow6918]

@@Rogue-a-Pogue debatable id rather my writer not be stuck in the phantom zone.

[@darkraiking680]

“Ever since that episode the god of death has been hanging outside on the TARDIS.” WELL THAT JUST SCREWS WITH LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

[@buzzsawkhan]

Remember when Captain Jack grabbed onto the Tardis and his presence interfered with the operation so much it flew to the end of time? RTD doesn't.

[@darkraiking680]

@@buzzsawkhan Captain Jack and Death had a nice cup of tea while they waited to arrive at the end of time.

[@Cyberleader672]

Remeber when the soul of the Tardis was removed and a dangerous God like being took over the body. You'd think he would have found Sutekh while he was in there

[@darkraiking680]

@@Cyberleader672 I had forgotten about that…. Yeah

[@justinambru8529]

Wait...the tardis has a SOUL?

[@doemoo4779]

TLJ was so bad it inspired another person to destroy their own story/IP

[@MeadhildOfAlbion]

Wow! You are not wrong 😂

[@colwellalec]

I mean keep in mind Disney now has their hands in this as well lol

[@ViolentMessiah666]

The BBC alteady destroyed it when they retconned 56 years of canon & rewrote the entire origin, RTD coming back with the 60th anniversary & this new season was the final nail in the coffin

[@Doomlovesearth2]

And this is why I would argue TLJ is detrimental to art.

[@enkiduthewildman]

Lying is not the same as subversion. If the punch line is, "Haha you believed me!" then you didn't deliver a clever counterpoint to genre conventions, you just lied about what you were doing.

[@liittlemiissd]

I will never understand why people think a twist you can’t predict with the information previously given is a good thing, if someone can guess the answer because of clues, it’s the bare minimum. If you pull your answer out of nowhere, your mystery box sucks.

[@ZgermanGuy.]

​​​@@liittlemiissd which makes me Wonder once again What do these people learn at film school these are all "Professional" writers they should know this

[@andrewshaw1571]

@@liittlemiissd Though the novels don't follow it in writing structure for good narrative reasons, sherlock holmes lays out the theme of how to do it. Watson sees everything most of the time but fails to draw the necessary inferences to reach the required conclusions. Thats generally, in my view, how a good twist works, the events are there, the thread between them is missing or jumbled but it is normally retrievable by use of single key piece of information to get you the right starting point to follow from, such as the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

@@ZgermanGuy. Dunno. Guess film school teaches them about the craft but not about writing?

[@billjacobs521]

Sutek (who is indeed Set, they just went with this translation of the name I guess) isn't even a god; he's an incredibly powerful alien, sure, but The Doctor killed him by trapping him in a time tunnel for thousands of years, longer than even Sutek's exceptional lifespan, so he'd die of old age. Not like I'm surprised RTD didn't care but part of me thinks that maybe he doesn't even remember anything about The Pyramids of Mars beyond some evil guy called Sutek. Sutek can also freeze you in place or cause unimaginable pain while preventing you from dying, entirely with his mind, so yeah, if we try consider this a sequel to the classic story, it's riddled with plot holes. Big shocker.

[@georgesummitt1980]

I remember that episode, Pyramids of Mars was its name. Sutek was a really cool villain. The thing the time vortex did to Sutek was rapidly age him to death. Now they did a Palpatine on him, and brought him back in a really insulting way.

[@84everfan90]

I love this new brand of entertainment where we get a beloved writer or actor back and the first thing they proclaim is "Nope! I suck actually, and always did. This is just the first time I was allowed to suck THIS hard!"

[@tyrannicalchocolate]

Murder Mystery is a genre based on subverting expectations - Convincing you the murderer is one person, but it turns out to be someone else. But the subversion ONLY works if the alternative explanation A) Actually exists B) Was foreshadowed. All these writers fail to realize the story substance they subvert must be substituted for something of equal or greater value. Imagine a murder mystery where the killer just doesn't exist. "It was no one. We won't explain how the dead person died.", or the reveal is that it was a brand new character that hasn't been mentioned up until that point - Poirot just exclaims that it was that dude in the corner, who hasn't been in the movie up until that point. That's a subversion that doesn't work. This should be self evident to any writer with a single braincell. It's maddening that these hacks think they don't have to try any more.

[@mw56101]

They're just toooooo clever

[@MajorSmurf]

You assume these people understand the word "Mystery"... I'm convinced they can't even read at this point.

[@hope-cat4894]

Basically, writers don't know how red herrings work anymore. A concept that A Pup Named Scooby-Doo understood, but none of these writers can. Sad.

[@mbob4337]

Davis should go work on the Velma cartoon. His intelligence loss fits that.

[@davidwilson6577]

It should also be more satisfying than the 'obvious' choice, because then why are you subverting it?

[@heskymarky]

The doctor tells us that time is a big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff, OBVIOUSLY ruby's mom knitted a cloak out of it

[@GB-mu9ue]

Urgh. Tennant.

[@cr0wnTHEwitch]

Time wool, from temporal sheep.

[@jlGenozzV]

​@@cr0wnTHEwitchthat are the sheep that you count when trying to sleep

[@pritkon8622]

I cannot stop laughing at the name Sutech because sutek (same pronounciation) means nipple in Polish

[@JSPena]

For real?

[@kaykutcher2103]

Fitting since they made the doctor a tit.

[@lordkrauser]

Well nipples, and the things they are attached to, have been known to sow death and destruction from time to time so it checks out :P

[@wilczus222]

@@JSPena Yes xD

[@ajandu_marvel]

“Doctor I let you go” was the last line of Doctor Who. The rest is Nurse What

[@Fyrestar]

I agree with this entirely

[@janehrahan5116]

I haven't heard that line. I think the last line Is "personally I think that's a hell of a bird"

[@odigity]

I prefer Nurse WAT

[@Fyrestar]

I really don't get the hate for s10. It's got some really great episodes. Is it seriously just cos of the Bill lesbian stuff??

[@ajandu_marvel]

@@janehrahan5116 lol are you not a fan of s10? No hate i just wanna know. Me personally s10 was fine. I wasnt tracking with most of it bit i really adore World Enough and Time, The Doctor Falls and Twice Upon A Time.

[@oldoutlet6946]

Subverting expectations now is the equivalent of hinting at your kid all year that you're getting them an xbox for Christmas and then you get them a sock.

[@lordkrauser]

Oooh better yet. You get them a Xbox-themed sock so its like you didnt necessarily lie :P

[@inkermoy]

The results of TLJ and TDS. RTD pulled a Patrick Stewart when he was offered to come back for Picard, got his personal vanity wishlist together and disastrously put it on film.

[@kaykutcher2103]

"Dr. Who recently ended...the new season'. For a second there I knew joy.

[@kanteannightmare]

The doctor doesn't kill? Wasn't the first thing Tennets doctor did after regenerating was to launch an alien out of an airlock?

[@donovandelozier7156]

Gave him a chance of mercy after winning a sword fight, then threw a persimmon I believe it was at a button that dropped the alien off of the wing of the ship into a fall to the earth

[@TheGodOfGravy]

Yes, technically. He essentially dropped him off the equivalent height of an aircraft. But, he only did so after defeating him in combat for the safety of the Earth. He forced said alien to swear on the blood of his species that he would leave Earth and never return. However, after he said this oath he would try to attack The Doctor from behind in an effort to kill him. The Doctor acted in self-defence. I’m fine with The Doctor killing, I don’t like the idea that The Doctor would murder someone or be so negligent that he causes a death. The latter of which he cannot stop doing at the moment.

[@jamesgrose510]

"No second chances. I'm that sort of a man."

[@Mike_Dubo]

​@@donovandelozier7156 Satsuma, actually.

[@ajandu_marvel]

11 wasnt called The Beast of Trenzalore for just sitting by and letting the bad guys live. I guess RTD just skipped that episode.

[@ericchung3177]

The 11th doctor died of old age and everything after was just him hallucinating as he passes.

[@ajandu_marvel]

Nah I like 12s run

[@TA-zq3ez]

Capaldi clears Smith.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Why do we still call him matt smith's Doctor the 11th, even though The War Doctor makes him the 12th? All the reboot Doctors should be up 1 in number. Marketing I guess

[@TA-zq3ez]

@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 Smith is technically the 13th Doctor because of War, and 10 regerated into 10, but it still cost him a life. Everyone still calls him 11 because he is still the 11th actor to play the part. And still, the character himself didn't consider War to be the Doctor, and 10 kept the same face, so 11 is still the 11th face by his own understanding.

[@Fyrestar]

you're buggin if you think peter capaldi's era wasn't great. especially if you think it should be removed from canon entirely

[@ObinWangRavioli]

I wonder how many destitute children were dropped off at that orphanage and just arbitrarily named Ruby

[@cr0wnTHEwitch]

This can't *actually* be the plot, right? it legit sounds like Mauler is describing a dream he had.

[@RhysCallinan-hf7qx]

A nightmare really

[@camillecunningham7348]

It's real, unfortunately

[@TONYGILLEY]

I refuse to watch this shite, but just hearing this Death-Dog God has been hanging on the TARDIS since the Tom Baker era raises a LOT of questions. 1. Why didn't this guy sabotage all of the Doctor's heroic efforts? Using BS excuse that the Doctor brought Death with him is NOT an Answer. 2. Why didn't he attack Amy Pond when she was floating in space as the Doctor held her leg? 3. Even in the previous regime of Chibs the Idiot in the final episode of Jodi Whitaker, The Doctor and Yaz are sitting on top of the TARDIS looking at the Earth, Where is Death-Dog God?!?! 4. Why didn't the TARDIS warn the Doctor of their unwanted hitchhiker?

[@newman476]

I think the idea is that Sutekh was biding his time until the right moment to reveal himself. He is given the moniker of “The One Who Waits” implying that he is perfectly content to wait until the perfect time to strike. His plan also involves him killing everyone at all points in time, meaning that, in the examples you mentioned, he would get those characters eventually anyway. Why the current point in the show is the perfect time to strike is a different matter entirely, but that’s there. The show suggests that Sutekh somehow convinced the TARDIS not to say anything or react. Is it a good explanation? No, but it is there.

[@daedalus6433]

@@newman476It is another garbage retcon that further removes any sense of continuity or reason to care about stakes. Another "let's introduce shit into the show because it's just fantasy now lol" idea

[@916hayabusa]

@@newman476when fans have to presume answers to breaking in show cannon and ‘cope’ for huge and obvious ‘plot holes’, you know that the show runner has failed, in delivering a good and consistent product/entertainment. Fans are not employees and should not be expected to conjure up an infinite about of possibilities, to make the show runners material ‘make sense’.

[@newman476]

@@daedalus6433 Oh I agree that Sutekh’s return was handled poorly. I was just saying that there were answers, just bad ones.

[@newman476]

@@916hayabusa I totally agree. It’s just there were answers to the original commenter’s questions provided by the show itself. I don’t think they were particularly good, but they were there.

[@MechaSkeleton]

In my head, Capaldi was the last Doctor. That last scene with him and the Master/Missy is a great place to leave off. Didn’t much care for his last Christmas special, so I’ll also choose to ignore that xD

[@ajandu_marvel]

I quite liked Twice Upon A Time and tbh i can take “Doctor I let you go” as the definitive end of the show

[@Riseofziggy]

In my mind still trapped by dream crabs and this is a fever dream

[@johnellisbushbush]

I could take either him being trapped in the Confession Dial or twice upon a time as the definitive ending. Anything Chibnall era onwards doesn’t exist to me

[@thedoobieshrew0244]

Head Canon is the way for all these franchises that are dead or dying, no one else is coming to fix them. Star wars ended in 1983, there is only 3 Indiana jones movies, the Matrix was a one of, the future was saved by john and Sarah connor in the 90s, the Hobbit remained a short story and many more.

[@Riseofziggy]

@@thedoobieshrew0244 too true

[@capthavic]

9:35 "He likes things being dead" Oh so he works for Disney!

[@PlasticLid-wq6md]

this is what happens when you write zonked out on nitrate poppers

[@GB-mu9ue]

I’ll take your word for it.

[@TheSkepticalPanda]

This writing is pro wrestling tier. Sutek: "It was me Doctor! It was me all along!"

[@odigity]

The way Wolf says "thanks for watching" is so evocative - surprise, appreciation, and suspicion all rolled into one intonation.

[@Sir-Cuntington]

*Disney Doctor Who has been a failure, it failed because it went full RTD, NEVER go full RTD!!!* 😂

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

Ncuti Gatwa's Doctor: EXPLICITLY MAKES A NEW TARDIS FOR HIMSELF WITH A GOOFY HAMMER. The Literal God of Death: HAS BEEN ATTACHED TO THE TARDIS SINCE THE TOM BAKER ERA. Shouldn't the doge be annoying David Tennant's Doctor instead? SInce THAT is where he would be if he kept holding onto the TARDIS?

[@ChimeraArchive]

"you'll see where it's going in the end." What? A landfill? A burn barrel? A Hospice? Oh! I know! The bargin bin...

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

What store would be wasting precious bargin bin space on such unsellable nonsense?

[@popepisspot1675]

Hearing the whole mystery explanation, i was thinking "hmmmm that sounds like a certain .... a certain sci-fi movie ..." and when they explained that the writers took inspiration from tlj i lost it

[@darkursrike3161]

CAPALDI, I WAS TOO HARSH, I'M SORRY PLEASE COME BACK

[@DMAN99]

The Virgin Doctor Who mysterious leaving baby plot line vs the Chad Red Dwarf mysterious leaving baby plot line

[@ReddwarfIV]

Imagine if Lister was named Rob Or Ross and that was the explanation

[@cattrucker8257]

When Nurse Why used the weird magic hammer to hit the Tardis to clone it - did he actually hit Sutekh as well, or miraculously missed him? Did the cloning hammer also make a second Sutekh to go with the second Tardis? I'm positive neither RTD nor anyone else around him thought about that.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

This would require actual thought put into the script.

[@S4ns]

RTD: "I was heavily inspired by The Last Jedi this season." Audience: "THAT'S BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR DOING IT."

[@HelpW4nted]

I remember seeing an article about how a show writer said that the new doctor who was like writing fan fiction, and all of a sudden everything made sense.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

Well, I imagine that at least a fan fiction would at least treat the source material with more respect, so a fan fiction would be a step or two up from whatever Dr Who is (an unfan fiction?)

[@sparkleypegs8350]

Sutek is like an ancient egyptian god imprisoned by Horus. He'd been trying to escape his ancient prison and the Dr banishes him at the time of his escape basically. Pretty sure it was banished forever flying thru space with zero escape. Phew! And then they bring him back? F off!

[@Sines314]

Iirc he was not truly banished. He simply delayed him for a VEEEERY long, but not actually infinite amount of time. The idea of Sutek escaping is not unreasonable, it could have been done well.

[@JSPena]

*Sutekh

[@sakkra93]

It sounds like a similar case to Alduin to me - banished to the winds of time, but destined to come back into the physical realm at some point in time.

[@haku8135]

Yeah, they can't let a white man have accomplishments.

[@daedalus6433]

@@sakkra93Except even Alduin was written better, and he turned out to just be a dumb bad black dragon and an edgy aspect of Akatosh

[@00KiryuZero00]

Can't believe they cgi'ed a dog person when they could've just hired rags *shaking my head*

[@kaykutcher2103]

I have questions I'm not entirely sure I'd want answered.

[@Grim2]

Fun fact: "Midnight" is the only good episode Russel wrote (someone probably ghosted for him). The man has always been a massive hack, but difference between now and then is that first time around he got away with all the crud (which includes farting aliens) is "He brought back Dr Who! He's awesome!!!".

[@Scripture-Man]

I can tell you that "Midnight" was NOT the result of genius, insightful writing. Russell said he threw it together quickly as he had to turn in an episode and didn't have the budget to do anything he wanted, so he just had to come up with something quickly and he didn't have much faith in it. In other words, it was a fluke. I do think Russell DID have talent long ago. His introductory episodes of Ecclestone and Tennant were both excellent. Possibly because his writing was kind of "dumb" which made it relatable to the general public. The season finales for the first two years were also good. But even back in the beginning he was pushing his political agendas, and subverting the show's format by turning the Doctor into a romantic figure, when he really shouldn't have been doing that, at least not so early on. Let people get to know The Doctor first before putting a new twist on him. Even from the beginning, RTD's show was always loaded with juvenile silliness and gimmickery. Farting Slitheen and cute Adipose fat monsters. Any good ideas RTD had seemed to get used up pretty quickly and most fans were tired of him by the end of his run. He created increasingly "epic" storylines where it felt like the whole universe was in danger every week. He also over-stuffed episodes with too many ideas, concepts, characters and cameos, without giving any of them a chance to come into their own and support the story properly. For his final episode, End of Time, RTD did deliver the goods. I guess he had to, as it was his send-off. It was definitely a great episode, and you can excuse the "epic-ness" and myriad cameos for this one as it had to be special. But it was SUCH a relief when Moffat took over. Finally, a professional!

[@TheSeannn9]

At this point i'm convinced massive budget tv shows are just ways of laundering money

[@ricardopereira8355]

"Somehow, Sutekh returned"

[@kaykutcher2103]

No one ever dies.

[@troy4173]

I haven't watched since midway through Capaldi's run, but I checked out Disparu's review of the finale last night. I'm laughing at most of this because it's garbage and I don’t consider it real Doctor Who at all, but the way they put down Pyramids of Mars and disrespected the Fourth Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith legitimately disgusted me. They'll insult the classics but they're still perfectly fine stealing from them? This dumpster fire can't be canceled soon enough.

[@TheGodOfGravy]

Yeah the shots at classic Who really pissed me off. Not giving Tom Baker and Elizabeth Sladen the respect they deserved and also taking another opportunity to disrespect William Hartnell with the line about how “I’ve been trying to get away from it” when talking about his first incarnation during the discussion about Susan.

[@RhysCallinan-hf7qx]

Great, now you've convinced me to watch his reviews of Nurse What.

[@Luna-pk7gz]

ah yes disparu known transphobe and racist.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

Unfortunately, there’s still one more season of this to go. Of course, I haven’t watched any Dr Who since “The Timeless Child” (should have left after Capaldi), so I don’t care if they make one more season I have no intention of watching, except that I’m afraid RTD will deface more classic Dr Who episodes. Just thinking of what RTD and company did to “Pyramids of Mars” annoys me (annoy is about as strong of an emotion you’re going to get out of me regarding Dr Who these days, I’m afraid).

[@paulware4701]

I was there for Sutekh back in the Seventies and "Pyramids of Mars", one of the all time great Tom Baker serials. What they've done with him this time around is utter bollocks. He DIED in the time vortex, nowhere near the Tardis. He's DEAD. F*ck RTD and everything he's ever done.

[@Mate397]

Time "shrouding her" was obvious how exactly? The entire season was a disjointed mess that had nothing to do with anything and it was just random events.

[@bad-people6510]

It makes perfect sense that Sutek has been riding the TARDIS since his first encounter okay. It's not like the TARDIS has been destroyed and replaced multiple times between then and now, by this same writer.

[@Crimson522]

Believe it or not there are people out there that think this season is great. It should also be noted that these same people think the acolyte is a good show too. I had the dubious honor of engaging with some of them after I said that both shows were awful.

[@mw56101]

Is it an intelligence thing? Or maybe an expectations thing? I just wonder if they saw something truly good would their brain melt?

[@trashjash]

​@@mw56101 I think it's a flashiness sort of thing. They need something simple and familiar and to be reassured that X thing is good and if you watch it and you're good you'll like it too. So no matter how bad and nonsensical the writing is, as long as these people see their light sabers and blue police boxes and classic starships, they wouldn't care if the writers had Barney the Dinosaur run on screen and club a beloved character to death and declare the villains were misunderstood and oppressed. If anything that would make them more excited to get a "crossover" like that than anything.

[@Crimson522]

@@mw56101 I think it’s an infantilization thing. As a kid I remember liking return of the Jedi better cuz of the cooler action scenes and happy ending. But as I got older I started to appreciate empire strikes back cuz the story was way better. If you look at the shills they look like man-children. Which is funny cuz they always accuse people like us as being that

[@mw56101]

@@Crimson522 both Doctor Who and the Acolyte are objectively bad, even if you give them both a massive benefit of the doubt they're still mid at best. It just seems disingenuous for anyone to claim they're amazing. Unless their standards are so low that they truly believe it's 10/10

[@RhysCallinan-hf7qx]

​@@Crimson522There's nothing wrong with liking Jedi over Empire. There is, however, a vast difference between liking good media such as OG Star Wars and liking absolute downgrades that Disney Star Wars makes. Hell I'd rather the Prequels over this crap. Jar Jar seems more likeable than baby Leia or Osha Mae twins or Grogu.

[@J.Jonah.Jameson.]

So, the newest doctor had the power to bring everyone in the universe back from death and decided to leave all of his dead companions dead

[@kdog3908]

Perhaps the most important thing is the memes we made along the way. (The memes were pretty damn good.)

[@lachlank.8270]

A variation of the dead-god-of-death idea was handled perfectly about 20 years ago by Sir Terry Pratchett in the novel Reaper Man, where the God of Death goes missing and all of a sudden nobody can die. Some incredible dark fantasy/comedy I would strongly recommend over this modern Dr Who trash

[@DoYouFearTheBeanMan]

They couldn’t even get the simple detail of what the Beatles were wearing the day the episode took place in. Look up “Please Please Me session” and compare it to the episode to see what I’m talking about.

[@Zarvanis]

I'm reminded of the Dario Argento film, Inferno. The whole movie built up a compelling supernatural murder mystery, then abruptly ends after a ridiculous climax that explained nothing. We don't even find out who the serial killer was. It wasn't even presented as being ambiguous, the movie just forgot about that plot point. But it wasn't nearly as dumb as modern Doctor Who sounds.

[@1000000man1]

Hang on, since *WHEN* was the doctor opposed to killing anyone?!

[@christophermonteith2774]

He prefers not to, I guess. Still saying stuff like he refuses to kill is downright false.

[@1000000man1]

@@christophermonteith2774 Exactly, I remember a whole character arc with that. When Eccleston was in, he'd become hardened and killed or let die some enemies ruthlessly. Then in Tennant's introduction, where he's still figuring out who he is, he shows mercy to the enemy and gives him one chance to leave peacefully and only kills him when he violates that. There's even one with him where he goes out of his way to condemn the villains to fates worse than death and killing them would actually have been more merciful. He's compassionate but ruthless when he wants to be. And there was that episode where Rose had to stop him from executing a Dalek that had given up. They made a point to have Rose give him back some humanity after he'd become so hardened.

[@PeterCamberwick]

It's so laughable, the way Ruby reacts to the revelation that her mother was pointing at the sign. 😂😂 Love, even if there was anyone there to see her leaving a baby in the snow, then randomly pointing to a sign post ... which there wasn't, apart from the Doctor who didn't live in that time and had nothing to do with it, ... but even if there was, that just means your mother put about as much time and thought in to naming you as the social workers or whatever did. The whole Ruby's mother thing, was a huge nothing burger and a screw you to anyone who was paying attention to this shite. It didn't matter a single jot to the Sutec story either. Yeah, Russell's got balls I guess, but you know they're still gonna have a second season of this absolute bilge. LOL

[@OuroborosChoked]

Shows that are confusing and convoluted with the promise that everything will be explained by the end only for that to _not happen?_ Sounds like J.J. Abrams syndrome. If there was one hack worse than Rian Johnson, it's J.J.

[@TheAlterspark]

RTD being a fan of a stupid plot point in a horrible movie tells you whatever writing talent he possessed is long gone

[@the_absurd_hero]

I'm still at a loss as to wtf happened in this episode. None of it makes any sense

[@kaykutcher2103]

Yes.

[@mw56101]

Zero sense, I assumed I'd fallen asleep and missed a bit

[@EatWave]

Ideological capture makes people stupid.

[@SkyExplosion]

Man.. Midnight is such a masterrful written episode and one of my favorites.... what happened

[@ZeeDeadlyPotato]

It was a committee written episode, but because RTD was showrunner he got writers credit, his entire run was such effort and the only reason he left after 5yr mark was because the BBC wouldn't let him do as he wanted like Disney does now. The man has always been afflicted with NPD but throw in terminal TDS as well now.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

@@ZeeDeadlyPotato And him leaving gave us the two best Doctors in the entire history of Doctor Who and one of the best eras of the show with Moffat as showrunner.

[@cryohazard6930]

It's mystery box writing: set up a mystery to hopefully imbue your story with some kind of intrigue to hopefully keep your audience engaged but then reveal at the end that there was nothing in the box to begin with because you're a hack writer. Thanks J.J. Abrams!

[@iamtheecho]

Its so funny the life cycle of all these franchises slow deaths all following the same path at the same time. It goes killing blow, last chance to save it but just nailed the coffin lid shut and the slow silent lowering into the grave as we watch on apathetic, angry or adamantly refusing to believe it’s dead. Killing blow. Failed last chance. Slow funerial Doctor Who: Timeless Child. 60th. Series 14/1 Star Wars: TLJ. Kenobi. Acolyte Star Trek: Discovery. Picard. Strange New Worlds

[@thatwentwell4U]

Agreed and all the last changes do the same thing as well. Bring back popular characters just to waste them and spoil their legacy.

[@iamtheecho]

@@thatwentwell4U So true like in Ghostbusters, wasn’t half as bad as others but even it did the same. 2016: That wasn’t funny why did you reboot it instead of giving us 3? Shut up looser you just hate woman. Afterlife: Hey you want to see everyone being old and sad in this comedy franchise? Did you know Egon was a deadbeat dad who died alone? Well, he was and he did and now he’s back! No thank you just let Harold Ramis rest please, this is creepy. Frozen Empire: … We made a new movie… anyone? Oh did that come out? Meh I’ll catch it on streaming if I remember. Actually, no I won’t.

[@iamtheecho]

@@thatwentwell4U So true like in Ghostbusters, wasn’t half as bad as others but even it did the same. 2016: That wasn’t funny why did you reboot it instead of giving us 3? Basement dweller! You just hate woman. Afterlife: Hey you want to see everyone being old and sad in this comedy franchise? Did you know Egon was a deadbeat dad who died alone? Well, he was and he did and now he’s back! No thank you just let Harold Ramis rest please, this is creepy. Frozen Empire: … We made a new movie… anyone? Oh did that come out? Meh I’ll catch it on streaming if I remember. Actually, no I won’t.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

At least Star Trek can be fixed. The lore wasn't completely broken beyond repair and if you just get competent writers for a new series, you can bring it back. Star Wars and DW got it far worse.

[@serballista]

To be fair, if Chris Cornell & Layne Staley came back to life, I would be hyped as fuck.

[@ARC--5973]

Wow...never thought we'd see Doctor Who die for a second time, and by the very same hands that had previously saved it.

[@sblinder1978]

Rian Johnson: I can't be arsed to pay off JJ's Mystery Boxes so I'll make it nothing. That's how I solve that problem Who Writing Room: We don't have this problem but let's do it anyway.

[@PaulRichards-vz4pl]

Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars wasn’t even defeated by throwing him into the time vortex as I believe it was a time corridor which RTD must have forgotten! The plot of this recent story is totally stupid. Classic Who was much more sinister and this version is so silly with soap opera plots thrown in. Dr.Who needs decent science fiction writers. Only Peter Capaldi really understood the Doctor and made him more alien,aloof & unpredictable. He wasn’t always helped with plot lines but my goodness he was great.

[@PeterCamberwick]

Ruby Sunday. The key to everything and the answer to nothing. LOL

[@CarlosThadeu]

I know nothing about dr who aside from tardis go brrrr in time and that one van gogh episode scene... and I got a migraine listening to how stupid this is 😂

[@7hird3ye]

The whole "it will make sense at the end" was something that Moffat cultivated. He would have leads that went nowhere but seemed exciting in the interim. Dr Who died a long time ago. Capaldi was the one holding it together at that point because he respected the character tremendously.

[@insensitive919]

They keep doing the same stories. All this attempted "subversion" and it's just Rey again. The Acolyte is doing the same thing with Reeva 2; a reprehensible villain with a fake redemption arc. They've replaced old tropes with their own even less interesting tropes.

[@theelder4797]

No way, Davies said for every HORRIBLE old fan they lose (10 million-ish), they would gain THREE from the MODERN audience (30 million!!!) Therefore, next season they'll probably BEGIN with at least 35 million viewers, MORE than they've ever had in all of Who history! You guys are just ists!

[@admpandora91]

awesome to hear Wolf's voice again. I hope he's doing well.

[@TheGodOfGravy]

Don’t you get it Mauler, he took the god dog for a walk.

[@916hayabusa]

It’s Ruby Palpitene, her mother was no one, RTD has already said that he was inspired by Disney Star Wars.

[@rakhshas6727]

What irks me is a lot of these recurring "Gods" have nothing to do with each other, in classic Who they're all mysterious supernatural beings with different origins and agendas. They even refer to the Mara as "God of beasts" despite the fact that the only association with beasts it has is that it looks like a snake, its like calling Darth Vader the God of skulls.

[@Laxhoop]

Why didn’t Zootech killing all life forever affect The Doctor?

[@arkhamwarden1205]

Already my favourite EFAP highlight

[@TheSeannn9]

Used to love doctor who! Gave up on it after the 1st season with capaldi after a noticable decline in the quality of story and they just started recycling villains and story arcs. Listening to this only vindicates my decision.

[@FozzieOscar]

people who like to subvert expectations always forget something... the subversion has to be better than the expectation for it to be good

[@MajorSmurf]

You know typically if a mother or father abandons their kid and wants them to have a certain name. YOU WRITE A NOTE! For gods sake even ancient story tellers knew this, it's in plenty of myths and legends where the kid has a tag or note on their basket. How does pointing at a sign outside a church, name the child? How will the priest, social services or parents adopting her know the mother pointed at a fcking sign unless the priest saw here and in which case he wouldn't try to persuade against it? In most cases unnamed babies will be given a name by their new parents if they don't have one, babies generally have a high adoption rate. So how she being Rose is beyond lucky. Of course Russell would have do some basic research and god forbid he picks up a book to learn especially if it's a history book about England. That would scar the poor fellow when he finds out we didn't have a lot of foreigners inmingling expect the ones who wanted to kill and conquer our country.

[@TravisTheRudyFox]

If dog can be a youtuber, surely it can also be a manifestation of death - Bigideas 447 BC

[@GuiltlessGear]

i wonder if it would shock anyone to learn that this ridiculous, goofy special mysterious companion surrounded by magical bullshit isnt some new hack development, but just what Davies has _always_ done as showrunner on Who

[@MB-lz5eb]

When has he done that before?

[@GuiltlessGear]

​@@MB-lz5eb Rose, Donna, and Margaret all end up in contrived positions where they were pre-determined to be to be found by the doctor, and are way-too-important to the actual plot of the season to the point where they become half-macguffin. It's always been the way of new who, though it came to a head under moffat, wherein clara, the worst companion ever conceived, who is forced to quite literally be the most important character to the doctor's history. Because of that, most people tend to pin the companion crap wholly on moffat, ignoring that it was the status quo since 05.

[@MikeBurnsArrangedAccidents]

It's a low-intellect show now. Abysmal. Definitely watch Pyramids of Mars as a pallet cleanser.

[@playthehighnote1122]

The reason it snows whenever Ruby is there is because that is what Russel was doing when writing this season.

[@chickenandksivideoreviewer9739]

Doctor who of all things didn't need to be any gayer

[@anthonysaylor8120]

As Platoon was explaining how the new RTD Tennant portion was a cheap copy of the original RTD run, I fucking put my head in my hands. He pulled a fucking TFA to set up his TLJ

[@sab3redg333]

I think my favorite piece of information out of all of this is that in a roundabout way this is still the last Jedi's fault. Star wars wasn't enough for it its now draining the life out of franchises outside it's universes. That's impressive

[@bri_____]

I've never rooted so hard for a Dr who villain before! 😂

[@CataclysmDM]

It's pretty shocking how Dr Who went down, tbh. Used to be a juggernaut.

[@wardjunior1450]

Get the name right. It’s nurse what. Doctor who ended in 2017 after an amazing series 10 and Christmas special.

[@Fyrestar]

based

[@TheRealUnkn0wn_289]

Why are people so delusional and in denial about this, it's so awful, that it makes the terrible chibnall era look like classic who and that's saying something, not just series 14/1 and the christmas special, but the 60th specials too, they were trash

[@deanmottershead9208]

I don’t remember the name of the episode but the doctor goes to that different dimension where Rose’s father is still alive, the TARDIS dies so why wasn’t puppers revealed or in “the doctors wife” or one time the TARDIS was thrown into a dark matter pit by Davros

[@Myne1001]

RTD had a mental breakdown at the end of his original run on Doctor Who (and also producing Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures) which was a big reason why he stood down in 2010. I seriously wonder if his brain broke because he's really fallen since then.

[@bad-people6510]

The Doctor doesn't kill! Absolutely at no point has he ever wiped out whole species across entire timelines!

[@joelreis5366]

Hmm, im starting to imagine this was written by Dave Filoni after a 10 minute conversation with Russel T Davies. Even if its uncredited. With Kathleen Kennedy pitching ideas: "what if the giant dog is Death and also the Tardis?"

[@ViolentMessiah666]

If it brings back everyone & we get people Hendrix, Cliff Burton & Randy Rhoads alive I'll take a dictator or 2 as well 😂

[@lordkrauser]

Add in Cornell and Benington and I'll be fine with Moustache Man in exchange. Hell if we could get Owen Hart, Bray Wyatt, the Benoit Family, and Heath Ledger I'm cool with Genghis Khan, Mao, and Hussein coming back as well to sorta keep the scales balanced.