Doctor Who: Oddity | The Dark Dimension

[@endofthelane1]

Just to clarify for those who have asked whether Big Finish would ever make Lost in the Dark Dimension as an audio presentation - the answer is no. I think Colin Baker has made it quite clear in the past that he would have nothing to do with the story and probably wouldn't want to work for any company that did.

[@owenburchell9411]

That's depressing

[@aliservan7188]

Do you know what Colin Baker's objection was to the script?

[@mathieuleader8601]

@@aliservan7188 yes not enough screentime

[@GottiPrime]

Mathieu Leader Get John Culshaw on the phone please

[@timrob12]

@@JohnSmith-jz9qr Mainly because that Classic Doctor got to appear and all the others were sidelined. Well, minus Paul, but he was only in the prequel.

[@svenzo1199]

"I had a nightmare I was being chased by all my enemies around a soap opera." ~ The Seventh Doctor about Dimensions in Time

[@rockysandman5489]

What's that quote from?

[@krissle9994]

@@rockysandman5489 I believe it's from one of the doctor who books.Not sure which one though.

[@blakelycan2535]

@@rockysandman5489 I know this is many years later but. it was from the New Virgin Adventures novel 'First Frontier'

[@rockysandman5489]

@@blakelycan2535 Highly appreciated!

[@eveningtsar]

I seem to recall an interview with Sylvester McCoy about this in "Doctor Who Magazine". Something about it being a Baker vehicle, that his own role was okay, but the others were kind of slighted. Can't blame them for being grouchy really. . .

[@connorwheaton4209]

I'd always thought (or entertained the idea) of Big Finish making a 30th anniversary audio adapting this story. Like a 30th anniversary of the 30th anniversary in 2023.

[@ReversedPolarity]

I thought the same thing about Big Finish doing it, but now that you mention it, the date of the anniversary seems even more appropriate now! I really didn't think about that, well-spotted! It's a great idea and an interesting bit of publicity for Big Finish that would keep long-time fans curious about what could've been. It would be the right time to do it.

[@MWhiteley7677]

IIRC I asked Nicholas Briggs a while ago on Twitter if Big Finish would consider making an audio based on the script and he pretty much said “have you read it?” As to insinuate it’s garbage

[@ReversedPolarity]

@@MWhiteley7677 Well, I don't know the exact full nature of his comment, but it doesn't mean they'd have to do the same exact thing as the original script, though I also understand why Nicholas Briggs would be reluctant about this story, especially nowadays, although parts of the original concept are not bad either. The story also centres around the 4th Doctor more than any other character when it should be treated more as a special of sorts. Not saying it shouldn't be made, like I said before, Logopolis still has a lot of mysteries, but it would be an interesting suggestion to rewrite some elements since the story never got full traction at the BBC and Big Finish is about to release a multi-Doctor story in a few months. They also have done a lot of Bernice Summerfield development and they've done in-between events before (Titan Comics also loves doing in-between paradox events and they're always interesting too).

[@Deathtroopers09]

That would be something. It could be their multi Doctor special for that year.

[@carealoo744]

Yes! :)

[@andrewf1145]

mAdAm! wHaT yEAr ItH ThIth? - Everyone's favourite Pertwee quote.

[@JoshSnares]

TWO THOUSAND AND THIRTEEN!!!

[@andrewf1145]

**Bursts into an explosion of white pixels**

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

This is something I really wish happened. Those redesigned Cybermen looked amazing!

[@ireallydidntwanttomakeanac575]

And redesigned Ice Warriors!

[@bruhfeld9600]

@@ireallydidntwanttomakeanac575 wait, the Ice Warriors were going to be redesigned? Do you have any pictures of of the redesigned Ice Warriors?

[@ireallydidntwanttomakeanac575]

@@bruhfeld9600 I had one on a hard drive in the country, so I don't have it with me. I tried to look on the internet for it again, but the closest that I could find the image was a CGI recreation of the model they made.

[@michaelrushton3953]

There is an animated version of the Dark dimension knocking about on You Tube, it is fan made but a very good effort, it might just give some of you out there who really want to see it, a good idea of what it might have been... Try it !

[@timelrdgmerx0692]

I can see the dark dimension working as a book sort of like how scratchman and The Krikkitmen were novelized

[@Super_Mario128]

yeah I think that's about as close we'll ever come to having a version of Lost in The Dark Dimension, with prose fiction you could expand the roles that the various Doctors have in it.

[@bondfool]

Ooh, good idea. Unlimited budget of the imagination, and no egos to work around.

[@BadwolfGamer]

"This is why we can't have nice things"

[@TheHylianBatman]

"The fan favorite, Dimensions in Time" I don't know what fans /you're/ talking to, but they must be different than mine.

[@thelemonadestandman]

they are the same fans whose favorite song is Doctor in Distress

[@alexhenderson1312]

Unfortunately Dimensions in Time looks like a precursor to New Who - Doctor Who as a soap! 😣 - and probably was an influence on RTD to make it soapy! 🤔😖 The Dark Dimension was such a missed opportunity.. Just like the cancellation of Doctor Who itself in 1989 along with all the mystery and intrigue, and the expansion of the Whoniverse that the Cartmel Masterplan may have brought about. 🤔😕

[@DistantCousin]

Those of us with a sense of fun and mischief love it!

[@rexlloyd7320]

This is the best video out there on this topic, so in-depth, and so brilliant I honestly think this series will be so much better than the missing episode one (and that was brillant) Love your work. Josh!

[@dragonzilla6482]

I think the BBC should make The Dark Dimension as an animation.

[@HarryRobins]

From the preview of The Macra Terror I watched, I'd definitely love to see completely new stories being made by them.

[@MrChristiangraham]

Great to see you branching out into this area, Josh. I was wondering what I was going to watch after the missing episode series finished.

[@testiclesish]

It's reasonable to say it is disappointing to see how Lost in Dark Dimension is abandoned due to a bunch and a lot money problems ...sad...

[@testiclesish]

Thanks for reading the comment Josh...

[@tangerinealarm]

I’ve loved The Dark Dimension since I read about it in ‘The Nth Doctor’. But I don’t think it should be animated. It’d probably cost too much to do at the current style/detail level. Probably the ideal time was when the webcasts were done. That would’ve kept the costs down. But no one would settle for that now. I think there might be a place for it, along with ‘Last of the Time Lords’, ‘Return to Varnax’, ‘Jewels of Time’ and the other proposed Doctor Who movie scripts to be produced by Big Finish as a “path never travelled” boxed set of audios.

[@gazda69]

That sounds cool, i'd settle for a novel or comic aswell.

[@raydarable]

I would love to see The Dark Dimension animated!

[@zigzag4491]

You should cover BBV Productions, they have a really interesting history. Also, shame you didn't mention Season 26b's animation.

[@davrossaxon6989]

i would love to see Dark Dimension at least on DVD the story looks really interesting to me

[@MrCTD1977]

OMG awesome Was soooooo confusing when all that was going on. No internet, so the only way to find out was from Dr Who and sci-fi magazines. I never knew until know what really happened. Thanks so much for doing this. An audio / animation would be great 👍🏻

[@endofthelane1]

That was part of the problem. For years, all we had very very confused and contradictory ideas as to what had really happened and why the project has collapsed. It's one of the reasons I spent two and a half years researching the production for Nothing at the End of the Lane, speaking to the people involved and uncovering previously unseen BBC documentation to reveal what really happened back then. www.endofthelane.co.uk/Issue3PDF.html

[@alang3489]

Fascinating film, Josh. I never knew of this project's existence. Well done for researching and filming this piece. x

[@quantumnoodl5584]

1:54 I love the fact that no one except Peter Davison looks very happy. 🤣

[@SegaNintendoGuy64]

I really wish this was a thing.

[@person14876]

Hell yeah Loved your missing episode series For great content you’ve earned a sub

[@QueenStodge]

I'm kind of surprised that this hasn't been picked up by Big Finish to be made into an audio story. I feel it would work really well. With it being tied to Logopolis, it could end with The Doctor becoming The Watcher, and then goes into the regeneration scene. I think it would work well in that capacity.

[@ireallydidntwanttomakeanac575]

It's a huge shame that Big Finish, when they were doing the Lost Stories range, didn't do an audio on this story. Think about it, with audio, the Doctors can just be the Doctors without them worrying about age. However, the villain for this story was supposed to be played by the legend that is Rik Mayall. I don't think I could listen to this story without him in it.

[@paulleow8017]

Yeah, I'd love to see Big Finish do it too, but the lack of Rik Mayall would be a drawback. Imagine if they had Ade Edmondson play his part for it though

[@robalexander8065]

Very interesting. I was especially intrigued that The Dark Dimension's would-be Producer was to be Peter Cregeen, the man who actually cancelled the show back in 1989.

[@endofthelane1]

Peter Cregeen did very little to help BBC Enterprises with Lost in the Dark Dimension, and indeed was roundly criticised by Penny Mills, the producer of the special for his lack of activity. www.endofthelane.co.uk/Issue3PDF.html

[@user-ke6xv5je7s]

I'm obsessed with all your videos 💛

[@jerobriggs6861]

It's sad it was never made, however, business wise, I can see why they didn't make it. Spending 1.2 million on a movie and then only making 42,000 out of it would be a big loss for all involved in making it. As a fan though, it would've been nice to have seen it made.

[@azurabayta133]

fAn FaVoRiTe DiMeNsIoNs In TiMe Anyway, I'd love to see you do one of these on Scream of the Shalka! Poor thing doesn't get near enough attention these days.

[@gazda69]

That's actually a really cool premise, here's hoping it gets made into a novel or an audio drama one day :)

[@lukiz767]

Love the Nina Bonina Brown “well it’s over” reference at the end 😂

[@danton8302]

*Possibly Big Finish Productions could get their hands on the script, edit it and ship it out...*

[@collegeman1988]

Although I’ve never heard any of them myself, I thought Tom Baker has done many Big Finish audio productions of Doctor Who stories. Perhaps this story could be reworked as a Big Finish audio production, which could give something to the fans while keeping the budget for the story manageable.

[@captaindemobeard9560]

It would be nice to see The Dark Dimension on screen or in audio. (Though I have a feeling having it on screen would be practically an impossibility.)

[@carealoo744]

... I had no idea this existed! I remember when I was 12 years old, and thought I knew more about the show, than anybody else! What a fool, I was! :)

[@mythghost]

Animating it would be awesome . Still not sure of how the third Doctor be in Danger. Or just a cameo from him seems a bit of let down.

[@Loverboy19691]

There is indeed already an animated version of this story, you will find it if you search ''Lost in the Dark Dimension'' The voices for the Doctors are pretty awesome, quite a likeness. Go check out out on youtube.

[@REFLEXiw]

I always thought it'd be a good way to send off Tom when he is ready to retire from BF

[@Henry-oj1oo]

The third Doctor would be in danger as the seventh Doctor had stopped the Daleks in 1963 in 'remembrance' , but if he never becomes the seventh Doctor the daleks would have got the hand of omega and destroyed the earth, meaning that it would not be there in the 1970s which the 3rd doctors era takes place.

[@mythghost]

HenryDude star ah that makes sense

[@Jasonk123]

They should animate it

[@TNJX]

I'm quite glad this wasn't made if it was going to retcon one of the greatest moments in Classic Who history, 4th Doc's regeneration scene.

[@indyclonejr]

I would say this could work as an animated movie or even a Big Finish audio drama. Or even if they decide to do a theatrical movie they can still work with the story & tweak it a bit to incorporate the new era Doctors, like how about instead of the 4th Doctor not dying make it the 8th Doctor not dying.

[@frogoat]

'Fan Favourite'. I love it!

[@romelmunoz7957]

That settles off the question "Is Josh a Cybermen or not?"

[@benmiller3252]

Judging by The filming pics for the 60th Anniversary. I'm getting the vibes of The Dark Dimension. Maybe it could take place in a universe where The Tenth Doctor didn't Regenerate

[@Silverwind87]

While maybe not The Dark Dimension, there _should_ be some sort of anniversary special featuring the Classic Doctors. Like The Five Doctors, but actually featuring five Doctors.

[@alexhenderson1312]

Good video. It was a pity that The Dark Dimension wasn't made 😒 - would have been far better than the wholly forgettable Dimensions in Time (a crossover with Eastenders? Really!) - and as it featured a character called Summerfield this may have tied in with the New Adventures range of books at the time. I do feel that Dimensions in Time set a template for the soapy quality of New Who. 🤔

[@johnadams4427]

I NEED this animated- that cyberman thing looks fucking AMAZING! Is the script available anywhere online, or jusy synopses?

[@robanybody3363]

I'd love to see it animated

[@kinky_afro7720]

I think we should just get a book version of it. We'd still get it but no voices

[@TravellingTARDIS]

So glad we got the masterpiece known as Dimensions In Time over this crap.

[@JoshSnares]

TRUTH!!

[@SpectrumStorms]

@David Roberts Make that 3!

[@BarryLetts379]

Make that 4

[@justice_productions_]

X-men theme plays as the Cybermen with Wolverine Claws appear

[@GlamTelevision]

@3:57 - not the way people normally ask for a budget, but ooooookaaaaaaaaaaaay LMAO

[@anthonystone2552]

I wouldn't mind seeing a big finish production of dark dimensions I thought they they didn't want maybe a comic book would be really cool to

[@matthewjh138]

New best KZbinr!

[@ReversedPolarity]

It's an interesting thought and animating it could be interesting, although I can see Big Finish doing that sort of thing someday, but I don't know about the Logopolis rewrite. I mean... it makes some sense with the present lore if he chose to postpone the regeneration (since we've seen the Doctor face some big falls) and it would be interesting to explore the Watcher or why "the moment had to be prepared for" but doing it is a whole different subject. It would be an interesting angle for Big Finish nontheless. So I'll go Big Finish on this one.

[@JoshSnares]

It’s more a “we must fix the timeline” then the Doctor still regenerates in the same way :)

[@ReversedPolarity]

@@JoshSnares ​ yes, I got that impression from the story, a bit like "Twice Upon a Time" but with the 80's Doctors. It makes one wonder about the implications for certain. Edit: It's just that I don't see the BBC making "official" brand material for it anymore (like animations where you have to animate many characters in single scenes), but I can see Big Finish doing a rewrite (or rather, "extension") of Logopolis, like how they have done for the Last Adventure.

[@stonebaxter]

I would love some details on the plot. As in...why was Colin Baker so against it? Was it insulting to his era/Doctor?

[@JPH1138]

So tldw, a department that had basically nothing to do with drama production just felt like this was something they would be able to make based on vibes, and announced it without even asking the actors, and only gradually realised they had no idea what they were doing?

[@JoshSnares]

😂😂😂

[@theoutcastboi]

Maybe we could get it as one of those fandangled Novels, like Scratchman and the Krittimen.

[@carealoo744]

6:13 Yes!

[@alanthewonderhorse8513]

Superb . . could watch your films all day..beggars belief that the BBC were that inept ..you make a strong argument for animation I fink it would sell well .. a story none of us has seen containing a multi doctor story that we really should have seen... love and kisses the wonder horse...🐴💋

[@vinniequick]

that means in the alternate timeline the 4TH Doctor lived to 1087 (the Life of the 4TH Doctor but this time he doesn't fall of the tower originally living to 187) (the Life of the 5TH Doctor but this time it's 4 and the Spetrox Toximia doesn't infect him or Peri originally living to 90) (the Life of the 6TH Doctor but it's 4 and he doesn't hit the console or contract poison originally living to 153) and the life of the 7TH Doctor but this time it's 4, Ace magisterially died and he was never shot or fell originally living to 657 but now being this old 4TH Doctor Grey haired and wise

[@commanderskittles6558]

YES YES A MILLION FUCKING TIMES YES THIS NEEDS TO BE REAL

[@frogoat]

Animate this right now, BBC!

[@doctorwhat5147]

I would like the same plot but with different doctors so swap out Tom for David Tennant!

[@dangerouslytalented]

Sounds like a plotline that could still be done today, an elderly fourth doctor who didn’t fall in Logopolis needs help from the current Doctor to restore the timeline.

[@timrob12]

The greatest story never made.

[@turret72]

Been thinking about this, if Tom Baker was recast as Paul McGann and the future selves in this production were Eccleston, Tennant, Smith, Capaldi and Whittaker could this serve as a possible 8th Doctor movie that introduced a new 3 year series?

[@Jokie155]

Given what went on with Eccleston regarding the 50th, and the fact that John Hurt has sadly passed I think it's fair to say that there would be some reshuffling of the roles yet again. But hey, anything to help give McGann even more of a presence would be nice, the movie's own issues aside I really like what he's done.

[@stevenbaker7696]

What a fiasco! (and very artfully described...)

[@mrb3991]

Hi this sounds similar to a Dimension in Time ?

[@AnthonyP73]

I never knew they had actually come up with an estimated figure of how many of us Whovians there are! All the better to work out how best to squeeze the most money out of us I guess!

[@leliofirefly]

Im game for anything with the classic living docs . The living ones are all 80s who and I friggen love 80s who , I dont care of it gets a bad rep .

[@robertk.702]

Can YOU reconstruct it like with the lost episodes?

[@No1ShalkaFan]

Yes animated Dark Dimension

[@hilarioph]

September 1992? That’s the time when Sci-fi was launch in September of 1992 when BBC are talking about that dr who movie

[@timrob12]

Shame this never got made, because the script is rather good.

[@Henry-oj1oo]

'Dimensions in time' a fan favourite? that must of been an auto correct from fan disgust.

[@AvengerII]

That's one piece of Doctor Who most people aren't missing on an official home video release! It's too bad THAT special couldn't be "lost in time" and more of the missing episodes could actually be recovered! TBH, the only good Doctor Who crossover special I own is the 50th anniversary which is actually the ONLY New Doctor Who I have on home video. I don't think I'd get The Three Doctors (out of print in the States, WAY too expensive now) or even The Five Doctors -- way too many writing issues and they squandered opportunities in the Five Doctors (and the fact that Tom Baker refused to do The Five Doctors didn't help). The 60th anniversary IS coming in a few more years so hopefully SOME plan is in operation to celebrate that and NOT skip it like the 40th anniversary which had a "retrospective," ie, taped interviews. By then, the show will either be cancelled or Whitaker and Chibnall will be gone and replaced by a new Doctor and showrunner...

[@Henry-oj1oo]

I would like to see a new Doctor Who crossover, but it would have to be with something which has the same enthusiasm as Doctor Who, and not something slow like EastEnders which is a soap. Clearly the writers did not know what to do, as one of the writers was a director (not a writer) David Roden, and the other was John Nathan-Turner who was a Television producer (again not a writer). it seemed like John had written the story then David came in a just added the EastEnders cast and whatever into it, does not help that Eric Saward (script editor in the 80s for Doctor Who), has said that once John tried to edit a script and he just ended up making it worse.

[@peterward2275]

A favourite of Ten maybe judging by his love of cardboard 3D glasses! 😁

[@SpectrumStorms]

Am I the only one that doesn't hate Dimensions in Time? Granted, it's no Three Doctors or Zagreus, but at least it's not Day of the Doctor (which I wish did get "lost in time").

[@Henry-oj1oo]

@@SpectrumStorms "your mad! utterly mad!" Day of the Doctor was a fair attempt at trying to make a story, which try's to represent the classic and new eras of the show, while also trying to make a cinematic doctor who story which would be watch by billions of people around the world. and Moffat did a fine Job, this thing had no excuse, it was a poor idea, with not thought or any proper work put into it, you can't say in any way that Dimensions in time is better then Day of the Doctor. Also at lest Day of the Doctor is cannon.... oooh.

[@KingRandor82]

I'm surprised Colin of *all* of them said no to it...

[@williammitchell4417]

It would seem that the Beeb was taking lessons from the US DoD

[@crystalcomedy1117]

What's the song @ the beginning

[@MrAndyB]

I still say this would have been amazing. 1993 would have been perfect for a dark and "grungey" Doctor Who story. Instead we get Doctor Who vs. Pat Butcher......

[@JoshSnares]

😂😂

[@bandyroorobinson6797]

Why don’t you do a video on story’s that never got in to production. I could have sworn,I read they we’re going to do a story with Jamie & the third DR but I probably dreamed that up. For give me,I am getting older.

[@aristidetwain9117]

Have you seen the animated recreation of “The Dark Dimension”?

[@JoshSnares]

Bits of it

[@aristidetwain9117]

It's a fun enough watch. I know the beginning is pretty off-putting, but I'd recommend sticking with it.

[@person14876]

Aristide Twain can you put a link to it

[@db13724]

Peter Cregeen - Producer ...swear that was the bloke who cancelled Who back in 1989...

[@JoshSnares]

You’re thinking of Michael Grade!

[@seanbehary1018]

6:19 GAG

[@GiratinaofFury]

If they still had the script, they could just hand it to Big Finish.

[@eveningtsar]

The 90s were a dark time; so many false starts, false alarms, disappointments and let downs. I don't see why BBC drama couldn't have done this - do something to commemorate their mega-franchise? Why not? As someone else suggested, there's no reason it couldn't work as a book however. . .

[@pamlane6295]

Just bought Shada

[@Deathtroopers09]

Never heard of this

[@echowing9560]

I'm actually sorta okay this wasn't made. Would've been neat, but still.

[@daveboybrookes]

What is 'broadcoasting'? Anyone?

[@romelmunoz7957]

Hey BBC why don't you give that money to those dudes who did Cowboy Bebop anime instead? Blade Runner what...!?

[@Reprodestruxion]

Romel Muñoz kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaWWoo2PirWcaLs

[@iain9757]

Personally I don’t really want The Dark Dimension.

[@peterward2275]

Keeping the timeline safe rather than following the Dark Dimesion path would at least be some explanation for the presence of The Watcher.

[@BoyTrain872]

👉🏻Animated👈🏻

[@iain9757]

They should have marketed it as Dark and sexy and right now

[@Dim4323]

1989 was cancelled

[@schizoidboy]

For once animate something rather than go to live action; expand the medium damn it!!!!!!!!!

[@Reprodestruxion]

schizoidboy kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaWWoo2PirWcaLs

[@fredleggett923]

Perhaps I'm infusing my American bias into all this, but the BBC strikes me as Scrooge-like spinsters if they balked at a measly £900,000 production. For a feature of this nature, £900,000 would've been my STARTING budget estimate, not my ending. Here in the U.S., the average forgettable romcom that enters and exits theatres in the same weekend can easily get a $10 million budget. And yes, I know the British Pound back in 1993 was significantly stronger against the US Dollar (I'm guessing somewhere around £1 = $3), but still, this just reeks of mercenary penny- (or quid-)pinching. Why the BBC considered Doctor Who to be the black sheep of their programming family back then, I'll never know.

[@Reprodestruxion]

Fred Leggett austerity politics and government companies , the neoliberals wanted them on budget and no one had dreamt about selling to America despite masterpiece theatre

[@fredleggett923]

@@Reprodestruxion Hmmm. Maybe they should've made this one-off as a Masterpiece Theatre special. Perhaps as a double-bill with an Agatha Christie mystery.

[@2150dalek]

The story itself is uninteresting, Polar Ice Caps melting? Ozone layer is destroyed? Give me a break...Then re-invent the 4th Doctors regeneration? Glad the project died a miserable death. It was nothing but planned shameless exploitation of 'Who Fans'....Dr. Who should be new stories, not remakes of Dr. Who cannon. ..Remakes always suck.

[@iain9757]

Project

[@CalumRhysJones]

*give us money lol*

[@tomgriffiths2622]

Terribles

[@DrPeppergay]

Awesome video!!!!!