DOCTOR WHO | THE WAR GAMES IN COLOUR: WHAT IS RTD AND THE BBC UP TO?

[@michaelwebster8666]

Excellent discussion Brendan & Rachael! I am torn on The War Games, it is my favourite Troughton story with fond memories of watching it in one sitting with my friend when it wa released on VHS. Of course i am curios to see the colourisation, but I cant get over the fact it's been so heavily cut down which is clearly going to impact on my viewing experience of it 👍

[@alexanderbeta-werburghii6176]

Thanks for a Racheltastic show Brendan. As for the topic: As an old person I always used to be able to even, but now I can't even.

[@noblerees1]

Good to see you mate

[@peterharrington7523]

For me personally I will be interested watching only to criticise, let's face it it's going to be awful. How they get around the legality is shocking today. Who ownes it? I thought the writers would or their estates, a contract with the BBC that remains to this day? Totally butchery is so many aspects to writers, actors, producers. designers etc, I hope on day in the future someone has a deep dive as RTDs work. karma is a b*gger. The regeneration looks interesting, Timelord glowing eyes, how he gets into the Tardis rather than spinning off to Earth. It does looks like, a guess, with Troughton a scene from The Mind Robber. He lays down in a chair to try and control the outside force, if so that's a Peter Ling estate. Also there is right a fan regeneration to Pertwee, sure on The War Games dvd, a fan series called 'Devious' when Pertwee was still alive, they could utilise that. And the music and sound, oh not again, The Daleks was a travesty. As you said it's just money and a definitely Season 7 release soon. As a life long fan I will not buy this when it comes out on dvd as with the colourised Daleks. Great stream from you and Rachael. ❤

[@noblerees1]

Thanks Peter. Why does everything Dr Who just feel like it is agenda driven?

[@Pooter-it4yg]

Much as I love the full originals there is usually an issue with pacing, but mostly not for the reasons people think. While some stories were deliberately padded, the "filler" was also a creative production choice. Recall that back in the day, we got 25 mins of Dr Who per week (less a couple of mins for titles). There were no video recorders, no repeats and a week of real life in between each instalment. We needed regular recapitulation of the characters, plot events and environment - especially since we would sometimes miss weeks. In that light, editing down for an omnibus is legitimate. Maybe not quite as severe as taking ten episodes down to the equivalent of four, but still. It's also worth bearing in mind just how labour and cost intensive colourisation still is. It would be difficult to justify budget on extended sequences of Pat and Fraser creeping along gloomy corridors (even though they did it so well). I also don't think it makes sense to colourise incomplete stories yet. It isn't beyond the realms of imagination that good quality AI reconstructions of missing episodes will be possible a few years hence. It''ll be a while but I'd be surprised if they weren't already tinkering with this kind of approach in a back room somewhere. You could for instance feed a deep learning network with all available footage and task it with recreations using telesnaps and some of the animations as motion guides, scene by scene. Actors may throw up their hands in horror at the idea, but animated characters aren't Equity members and nobody seems to have a problem there.

[@noblerees1]

Interesting thoughts on a multitude of topics we raised. I respect what you say about pacing and the easy edit of cliffhanger reprises. I also acknowledge the budget might be limited on colourisation. That is why I ask can’t we have a few easy hits of colourised enhanced 4 episode black and whites?

[@Pooter-it4yg]

@@noblerees1 I'd imagine they're coming, and probably alternating Hartnells with Troughtons. One advantage would be to speed up the release process to two a year. I think Time Meddler would be an excellent choice for the next one. Mind Robber would be a good follow up - both are very comparable to modern era stories. There are sadly some we'll probably never see for erm "modern reasons"... Cough, Toberman... I agree that it's a shame to lose the cliff hangers. If I were in their shoes, I'd at least keep them in and just imply the break with the scream sting. I'll give Davies credit for quite a few things (although not generally his writing). One of his best decisions in 2005 was to keep the tradition in the form of "pre-screams".

[@anthonygreen7063]

Mind Robber is one I wouldn't mind seeing colourised and enhanced. Definitely one of my favourites, and relatively short, so no need for editing. Obviously, as has been said about Daleks and War Games, please leave the music alone.A nice Remaster to make it sound better is all that's needed.

[@TRTX-em8kl]

I believe the footage unseen since original broadcast is the first few minutes of the film sequence, which the film editor from the War Games revealed he kept for a job interview, on Radio Free Skaro podcast.

[@noblerees1]

That’s most helpful - thanks for that vital Addition

[@triplejazzmusicisall1883]

Harsh truth but modern audiences have dumbed right down. It isn't their fault though. The media itself especially internet social platforms, mobile phones etc. have created generations that have no capacity for nuance, build-up of tension in narratives and so on. Sadly, it has become a great loss for everyone as what we get instead in loud, fast, flashy but often of far less substance and quality. So, the instant buzz effect soon gives way to the disenchantment of anything worthy of long-lasting value. TV and most things are now sugar hits and it's a horrid trajectory we continue. I suppose we will end up with a one-hour screening of the complete Lord of the Rings trilogy? Anyone remember slow cookers? They always made the best of dishes. Like wine the best things take time to produce and to appreciate, savour and linger. Sometimes I hate becoming old in this modern age of veneer and shallow values.

[@RaymondWilliams-uu1ns]

Enjoyable stream. RTD has lost the trust of the fans. Why War Games and not the Aztecs, Mind Robber, Seeds of Death etc ? As for the edit! Even 90 minutes is too long for “modern audiences “ 😊 I can see a good edit making this story better but not at the expense of losing too many intimate moments. It can’t be all action. Terrence Dicks did successfully manage to make the novelisation of The War Games only 141 pages long. It is possible to do a good edit but this is the same team that did The Daleks story. No offence to them but I would have picked someone else to do the edit after that version. It cost them thousands upon thousands of sales and profit. The money to be made from successfully doing these is huge. And yet!!!

[@noblerees1]

Good point about the target adaption but also about the need for the more intimate, quieter character moments. RTD is too wham bam thank you ma’am. Subtlety and nuance are not his forte.

[@anthonygreen7063]

War Games is the first Who story I remember, especially the 'spinning' Troughton at the end, so it's precious to me. I'm not against colourisation (the Dalek city in the Daleks last year, looked amazing), and I'm not against edits, if it's well done, as some stories, especially in sixties Who really were longer than necessary, and I don't think they did a bad job on the Daleks, but cutting 240 minutes to 90 is too savage, even though there is a lot of padding in the War Games. In addition, although, again, I don't think did a bad job on Pyramids of Mars, certain parts were cut for political reasons. Examples being the downplaying of the Egyption angle because of issues of 'cuitural apprioriarion' and Sara Jane's inocent enough 'At least it wasn't Albert's' gag when she was wearing Victoria's dress. I don't like that, and I don't like the insertion of things that weren't in the original, be it the Dakeks' 'Exterminate!' catchphrase, or this forthcoming phony regeneration. It also almost goes without saying that, other than a nice remaster to make it sound better to modern ears, the soundtrack should be left untiuched. Some of the music in the Dalwks sounded like it belonged in a Benny Hill sketch. Enhanced soecial effects, no problem, as well as they're tastefully done, as is the case with the revamped Blakes 7 (I haven't splashed out on the new DW Series 26 yet, I'm waiting until the pruce drops). Great stream, anyway. I like Rachel a lot. My only issue with her is that her own content is often too short, so it's always great to aee her talk at length on this, or other, long-form podcasts. I'm writing a Play at the moment, and if I finish it to my satisfaction and I'm able to get the funding to stage it, Rachel will definitely be offered a part.

[@EsteemedRepresentative]

I'm wondering if the Mexican soldier Arturo Villar is being removed because he's played by a white actor....

[@josesmith1329]

if they alter or tweaking anything to regeneration it will be disastrous ruin the mythology of franchise

[@noblerees1]

What’s left to ruin? As I say in the show, I dislike the tinkerbell regeneration fairy dust being used throughout classic who - destroying the uniqueness of each individual regeneration and story

[@Pooter-it4yg]

I agree with the Head Smog. There was an individuality and charm to each regeneration (and they were always imaginatively playing with the technology available so it's an archive of ingenuity in a way) and I really don't like the idea of standardising it all with RTD era visual histrionics. I have very young memories of Troughton's psychedelic exit but my first really clear one was Jon-Tom and I still think this was one of the best for its subtlety. Also I suppose for the general physical similarity between the two. Davies knows a lot of words, but I think he's a bit rusty (ho ho) on the meaning of subtlety... It's always bigger, more, Daleks AND Cybermen AND the others, and and and jelly and cake, lots of cake. I am concerned while he's got his hands on it all that his camp grandiosity will backcheapen (scuse neologism, but I think it's apt) excellent work. He also has such an oddly literal mind at times. Case in point: In Pyramids Sutekh says "where I tread I leave nothing but dust". Meaning that he destroys utterly. In Davies' hands this becomes a "dust of death" superpower. The whole premise is cack handed, but he didn't need Sutekh literally clinging to the TARDIS. The Doctor used the time control from the TARDIS to trap him and he could have escaped into and hidden in that, like some kind of malware. There are other examples of his "what ifs" being no more than childish literal wordplay throughout his stuff for Who. This "what if a metaphor were literal?" approach becomes very tedious. I'd also argue it's beneath the intellectual level of the show.

[@iluv2b]

Assuming a reasonably faithful treatment of the story (and the regeneration), I have absolutely no problem with the colourisation and abridgement of the War Games. Upon such an amendment, the resulting version is aspiring to be something other, a test of concept with regard to if, and how, the spirit of a fine tale can be retained when made much briefer; on such a basis, it has the potential to be a worthy complement (and compliment) to what will always remain an inviolate original. My enjoyment of the refashioned version, with regard to the main body of the story, will inform my tolerance of changes to the regeneration scene, my default preference to be no changes whatsoever. However, if satisfied with the manner of the abridgement, I would be prepared to indulge a vertical second Doctor whose face was bathed in new era energy (whilst also preferring no inclusion, at all, of Pertwee). Any infestation, at Davies' behest, of the likenesses of Whittaker, Martin, Gatwa (or God-knows-whatever other unbelonging examples they may see fit to include) will erode every bit of my good opinion of the project. Fandom stands only to gain from a well-intentioned attempt, whereas a substandard effort and/or any extreme adulteration will be rightly dismissed with unbridled scorn; as we have seen over this past year, fandom has a much louder, much more effective voice than for which this most arrogant of showrunners has, thus far, been prepared. Many thanks, Brendan and Rachel for a great, in depth discussion. All the best for now. Paul

[@noblerees1]

Thank you

[@slumdogjay]

I’ve said it before. RTD’s ego and apparent lack of attention span is very like a person who indulges in Columbian Marching Powder. Also his arrogance makes me think he does.That would explain alot.

[@cybermatstrikes7557]

All that ranting Brendon so negative about the War Games. It’s going to be amazing. Think you needed a detox.

[@Pooter-it4yg]

Well, I'm confident that whatever it comes out as, it'll be far more popular than Hotel Gatwaforya.

[@noblerees1]

Ranting? We had a concise hit list of points made from Careful Digesting of the issues. Our detox will be back but this week has been time pressed with family events and my first opportunity to come up for air was Saturday night

[@grahamdawson-lg5mq]

So happy I do not have a TV licence. This is my best Doctor. Sick and tired of RTD messing around with the classics. He is not a proper Who fan. Got to be honest about RTD. I can't cope with this idiot. Pretending he is a Who fan. He's a liar.