Does a Harley-Davidson Stage 1 NEED to be Tuned? (We SHOW You!)

Does a Harley-Davidson Stage 1 NEED to be tuned? We get asked this pretty often! In this video, we go over multiple tuning options from running a stock tune with an air cleaner and exhaust to dyno tuned, showing you all the results after each step, to answer this question!
STAGE 1 PARTS:
- Air Cleaners: imp.i104546.net/oePjMo
- Exhausts: imp.i104546.net/zaX6M0
- Tuners: imp.i104546.net/EaG5BW
Stage 1 Explained video: • Harley Davidson STAGE ...
Stage 2 Explained video: • Harley Davidson STAGE ...
Stage 3 Explained video: • Harley Davidson STAGE ...
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[@lifeofjustinjames]

Went from a fan (Still a fan), to working remote from Chicago, to moving to Florida, to now filming a Blockhead episode?! What is this life? haha, appreciate you letting me takeover an episode!

[@BlockheadMoto]

Sheeeeesh! We’re just getting started! 🤘🏼

[@lifeofjustinjames]

@@BlockheadMoto 🤘😆🤘

[@BossMan302]

Worst episode on the channel….just fucking with you. Congrats man I’ve been subscribed to you for a while so I’m happy life’s good.

[@MotoAviator]

That was fire. I have a stage I on my FXLRS with a Screamin Eagle Tune and only notice a difference from 3rd gear and up. Definitely looking at a stage 2.

[@DHdave510]

You did good man! Seriously seemed natural. But I gotta ask why does Chris dyno in 6th gear?

[@macmac3770]

Chris is indeed the “Master” and his explanations are really understandable and help clear up the confusion around the Stages.

[@batt3687]

This is the kind of content I want on KZbin… bought my M8 114 used with a Screaming Eagle exhaust, stock air cleaner, as far as I know, no tune. With finite resources, always wondering what mod to do next… videos like this teach me that I will get something out of a Power Vision even without upgrading the air filter first…

[@victorsantiago3424]

Chris makes it easy to understand, this stuff gives me a headache when I try to figure it out on my own. Thank you guys for the great content, tips and visuals!

[@aparkedcar123]

Dope video, was in same boat where I had no clue of any tuning/maps on this bike with new exhaust and intake. Glad to know I’m not missing out on too much ;)

[@antonioargueta1663]

Very professional and state of the art talent and garage you have there. Looking this video, definitely make me want to have my bike tunned with you guys! 😎👍

[@melhorian8488]

Great content thus episode, Chris wealth of knowledge and his easy to follow explanations appreciated much

[@CyphDragon]

The mark of a true master - when they can explain something complicated (throttle response and dynotuning) in a way even laypeople (eg: me) can understand. I've been saving up to Stage 1 my FXBBS Soon(tm), and was debating on the dyno tune. This was really helpful to me understanding the differences between the canned maps and a full tune. Thanks Blockfam!

[@DLeeJ]

First time I've noticed the lighting in the Dyno room. Looks sick! Good to know they don't have to be boring

[@kanenaysmith9287]

One of the best videos on tuning! Thanks for sharing.

[@darthdurkelthewise320]

So glad to find this treasure trove of a channel. Wow, phenomenal info put in easy to understand package with Chris. Dude, love this and it gets me pumped to do shiz with my Sporty. 🤘🏻

[@Spataman9]

Genuinely a good answer to a question that is not often asked yet important to understand 👍

[@gasmann6746]

Had my Stage 1 96CI TC Dyno tuned and exactly what Chris said was the result..The Freezer (Dyno Room) looks awesome..👍🏻🇦🇺

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

I used the improved Stock tune on my M8 Fat Boy 114 with SE airfilter and Elimnator 300 pipes with 118W TTI's installed, and ran that for months before I did stage 2. Bike ran great, didnt overheat, and it got more power, especially after I installed the 118W thundertorque inserts.

[@bmwdan3445]

Thank you for this video, you guys rock, basically what im taking away is I can put slip ons on and maybe a high flow air cleaner and not bother with a tune till cam time. I was always under the impression that with slip ones and a new air cleaner that the tune was mandatory.

[@nathantongier]

You knuckleheads are my go-to for knowledge about my FLHRXS and how to improve it. Keep those videos coming!

[@adarngoodjoe4043]

This has been my experience with my Versys 650 with Power Commander 5, a tune from Dyno Jet, and what amounts to a stage 1 with air and exhaust mods. I did not dyno the bike but the butt dyno was the same feeling as what was described in this video. It essentially took the max HP/Torque my bike could produce and brought it on at a lower RPM so that my bike pulled hard all the way through the RPM range. That's how it felt when riding anyway. My fuel mileage dropped by about 10% (dropped even more if I was rowdy with it). It wasn't a huge deal but my fuel range was about 50 miles less per tank so definitely noticeable. The change in the throttle response was the most noticeable change about the tune. It became very twitchy with the power delivery. It no longer rolled on smooth like Chris spoke of with the stock tune. It became very easy to bring the front tire off the ground. It was very fun to ride this way but ultimately, I think it detracted from the everyday rideability of the bike so I took it off (Power Commander 5). It was stored it in my parts box since there was no real gain in power and it contributed to a noticeable loss in fuel economy. Stock tunes nowdays seem to be really good even for a basic slip on exhaust. The twitchy throttle response made it harder to finess the controls during slow speed manuevers and the bike became more buzzy with vibrations at higher RPMs during highway speeds. If all I wanted to do was be a hooligan with the bike, then I would've left it on there because that is absolutely what it turns the bike into. It really just changes the attitude of the bike if you think about it and that's about it.

[@antoniocampos6627]

Recently put a 480 cam in my 2017 RGS. Never realized how much more power you can get out of a cam and full system exhaust versus just a standard Stage 1 until I saw my dyno sheet. Definitely worth the extra money.

[@sharkzf6]

Great info! Makes sense, no cam-up no real HP gain but it's always nice to get that "feel" with better throttle response! cheers🍻

[@5281Sparks]

@Iron J Moto this was AWESOME! Loved this episode @BLOCKHEAD and Chris did an excellent job at explaining everything that needed explanation! Would love to see Justin step in and take over again in the future. Great work guys! 🤘🏼

[@lifeofjustinjames]

🤘😆🤘

[@Nrgpack]

Wow, very interesting. Big thanks Justin and Chris!!

[@jasonwehrling738]

Killer video loved everything about it keep up the good work blockhead crew.

[@jasonbreedlove495]

Great vid guys, thanks. Best part is I just did a fuelmoto jackpot 2-1-2 headpipe, 4" cobra NH and FM map for PV on my 21 Roadking Special. While talking to my local shop mechanic Friday, who has never seen this or messed with just a stage 1, we ran it on the dyno. 5th gear pull SAE 92hp and 128fp, 6th gear 94/125 with the power hitting @ or before 2k rpm all the way to about 3800. Not bad for about $1k in parts and adult beverages in a "stock" 114 with out of box 86-88hp and 119fp claimed power. The bike is a beast and so much fun to ride and she be awake now. A woods or a S&S cam might happen sooner than expected.

[@FREEDOMGUNNER]

I never do Stage 2. I always install a heavy breather and SLIP-ONS and use the Dynojet Power Vision Tuner to give it a little extra throttle response, and I'm happy. Afterwards, I run the auto tune and getting everything running tight and smoothly. My bikes have never had major problems and run very well!

[@jimjohnson1285]

Makes sense the throttle response is what you feel in your gut.. So I think it would be worth it 👍👍

[@rodneyhill-zf8eg]

Very well explained in simple language Thank you makes my next decisions so much easier Cheers

[@Torch114]

Great video and very informative. Enjoy these takeovers.

[@dmvbenz7536]

I could listen to Chris talk and explain things all day, I’d learn so much

[@montrussell]

Awesome video!! Great job guys!!

[@morten9868]

Chris is a blessed man to be able to work in this environment. Nice room. Dope lighting (maybe an idea from a IG comment?). Blessed Iceman!

[@chetcrowley6526]

I like that there was a kind of basic start and explanation of things. I feel like some dyno tuning related videos jump all the way to the “big boy” end of tuning.

[@theonlyredspecial]

All my buddies in Ireland watch you guys. Great videos. We bought some shirts lately 🤘🏻🎸

[@ncautolink]

Excellent information, thank you! Answers the main question for many people!

[@douglastaylor9289]

This was so informative! Chris is awesome!

[@easyglider1307]

Good Stuff. I need to book time for a stage 2 cam install and tune for my 21 Road Glide.

[@rob7105]

Honestly my takeaway from this is plan to do a stage 2 with a tune, but if you want to run pipes and an air cleaner while you save for the rest of the stage 2 just go for it.

[@Ben-et8wh]

exhaust and air do a lot if he was on stock exhaust and air it would have been probably 5 hp 10 tq less. now if he had a 2:1 exhaust he would have got much better gains, especially in the low end

[@kyleryneost]

Only Justin knows how long I have waited for this!

[@Bedevere]

Great video - very informative. I can also tell at what stage of the dyno-room build you were at.

[@ecrusch]

The "Chris and Justin Show"...huh?! Great job you guys and thank you Chris for your very informative explainations. peace

[@JimmyKI5PRK]

Great video Justin.

[@Method_MOK]

super useful info, thank you!

[@MidnightSportster]

That settles it. Powervision is the next mod and dyno tuning. My bike cuts off at 105 now, mind you I have gone 120 on it before, but they flashed a new map when I did my stage 4 and that cut me down. I need that gone ASAP. Always so much great info on this channel.

[@jonomasonILoveU]

This new DynoTuning room is amazing and looks super slick with the red wall.

[@BlockheadMoto]

Thanks Jono!

[@tonymarin2314]

Great video and info, keep up the good work. Who made the headlight and how's the light better than the original????

[@hazyhuckleberry7642]

Awesome and informative.. I do wish you guys would have put the Dynojet auto tune on it and included that in the comparison… perhaps even a target tune as well.

[@paulnaxius4088]

This is a topic I've been interested for awhile. There's a Power Commander add-on called an Autotune which is basically an o2 sensor that I'd need to weld into the exhaust, which negates having to go online to download a fuel/air map then load it into the PCV. I'm wondering how it compares to a genuine dyno tune?

[@CarcassGrater]

At MMI Phoenix (Motorcycle Mechanic Institute) our instructors told us *STAGE 1 ABSOLUTELY DOES NOTTTTTTTTT NEED A TUNE* as these new M8 ecm's will relearn and adjust as needed, or get a Tuner if you plan on going further than the Stage 1. No, I do not think what they say is law, but after their explanation it was very convincing that it isn't "necessarily" required. Chris enjoys running that dyno, and I CANNOT blame him! Something really fun about dyno pulls

[@joeplem5329]

Dyno room looks on point 👌

[@martinXY]

Stage 1 on my 2015 Fat Bob since new, with a standard HD map. At 90,000 km on the odo, I decided to get it dyno tuned. Very nice. Runs more smoothly at 2000 - 2500, there is a noticeable increase in torque, and it runs a bit higher. Very happy with the results. No, they didn't give me a "before" to compare. My mileage is a little worse, because it's a lot more fun now 🙂

[@Silidons91]

That's a twin cam. Different than the M8. Twin cam needs to be tuned to run properly.

[@kevinmacwatters1519]

nice bike and I like the straight info on a bike with stage 1

[@marvellbanks]

I gotta stop by and check these guys out next time I’m on the other coast

[@devinratliff3335]

Very well explained, & man I dig that seat

[@jasonpender5645]

Nice job standing in for Mr Blockhead boys!

[@Big88Country]

Man, I just asked you guys this question yesterday on another video! Gonna have to think about getting my 17 Ultra to the dyno. I basically have what Justin has on his bike. I would like to cool it down some more though, removed the cat, and that helped A LOT! May have to schedule with a dyno guy near me. Problem is, I don't know any around here!

[@jasonkimble8926]

Good number, 468 cam. Would get around 119tq. So not bad on stage one.

[@baricho4771]

Great video.. love the pipes

[@spacebear49]

Just recently did a Stage 1 on my 1200 Custom. Was ignorant of the difference until I did a V&H FP4 canned Map, but the difference was night and day. It sounded rough, almost congested before the tune. Lots of decel pops, etc. It's damn near perfect now.

[@samwell707]

Good heads up. I was wondering about mine, the dealer i bought it from had no concrete info if it had been remapped. I get the slightest popping on decel so i think its good

[@spacebear49]

@@samwell707 you could always pop the seat and look in the battery compartment and see if there's a tuner module in there. A lot of people just leave them plugged in. They're usually married to the VIN, so it would be pointless to keep if they sell the bike.

[@pierluigimarchi8108]

What about the FP4?I had mine Yesterday and still not installed the air cleaner and the tuner...i can only go with the FP4 cause of the 4 PIN can bus....FP3 4 PIN Is almost a chimera!! I Ve ready a lot of trash talk bout FP4

[@spacebear49]

@@pierluigimarchi8108 I've had no issues whatsoever with mine. I installed the pipes and air cleaner first. Without those it's kind of pointless. But my personal opinion is most of the issues are either not following the directions or phone glitches. But don't know for sure.

[@Chewwy1973]

Great video perfect timing for me. I just bought a 48 that has a cool stage 1 kit and my check engine light came on. I took it to HD and they said it had not been mapped for the new hardware. Not convinced I’ll get it done now as its £400

[@elijahgutierrez5739]

I had my first Sportster dyno'd at stage 1....didnt even ask for it, was just chilling in the lounge shooting some pool and the service manager came and got me and we went back to the dyno room and tuned it after air and pipes.

[@ccollins9981]

In my experience the difference in a stage 1 without a map and with a map is much more noticeable on a twin cam than it is a four valve M8 which is already breathing much better just by design.

[@mikeessary4925]

Well done!!

[@Bolt5520]

This was good info for me. I have a stage 1 on my 103 with a downloaded map. Was wondering how much difference an actual time would make. Guess I’ll throw that 500 Towards a set of bars

[@crisvaldez1447]

Very informative video for a newbie like my self. Got a 2021 Low Rider S and just put in a 2 into 1 exhaust (SPC) and I’ve read a lot of opinions whether it needs to be tuned or not. I thought I’d asked the EXPERTS. What do you think? THANKS!

[@Firestorm637]

Love the lighting dyno room

[@christian_esquivel]

I liked the episode with iron-J as the host! Chris is always great aswell

[@azadr9231]

What an informative video. Freaking great. Thank you.

[@harleydave2316]

Great video!

[@High_Desert_Tanner]

I really wanted to see the AFR for the stock tune... Curious how lean it really is, if at all

[@user-hs6gc9gt4c]

Me too

[@KeViNMCMXXCIX]

It was really insightful, good one boys!

[@teapotwood2817]

Thank you for sharing this content really appreciate the work and effort involved. I have collected my bike 2023 softail standard. I have installed Vance & hines 3 inch slash cuts with PCX, but still have stock intake. I had a map sent from Dynojet for this setup. can I ask what the lowest idle should be on M8 107? I ask as my bike just cut out on me at a stop and was wondering if idle is a little low? thanks again 👍

[@FXFBS23]

Justin, love the look of your bike. Did you put an external breather system paired with your Arlen Ness AC?

[@hitituprohb]

Man that S&S GNX sounds good... ALMOST regret going with the V&H Hi-Output. Almost... lol

[@Hanh30]

Chris keeps me coming back here

[@simonhouel1984]

The alternative is to run some auto-tune sessions while you ride like you do IRL, no harder, no softer. I just did on my Heritage 114 and since I do not feel the bike to be more powerful nor torquy, she runs a little bit cooler, sounds a little more growly and a tad louder but the throttle is way smoother and she is absolutely less shaky ! And fuel put aside, it's free :-) lol

[@ianloyd6384]

Um weird comment... but, I duno what my younger brother maybe.. possibly said; but he watches on the main Tv / my iPad.. & can’t find comment If any.. (if so- plz ignore it if there is 1). You guys are badass. Been with BlockFam for years now.. Y’all keep killin it, & we’ll keep supporting. You & Chris are BAMF’s! 💯🙌🏻

[@RalphRayner-uw1mu]

Good information to know

[@sevenin1]

Informative 👏👏👏

[@deonnawilliams4903]

Man! Such a Wizard he is. Been a new motorcycle enthusiast for the past three years. Late bloomer in life. None the less once I start my build next year. I already know who I want to take my bike in the direction I want to take it. Chris you never look stupid my guy, always captivated by your passion and knowledge of motorcycles. The way you pass down your knowledge to newbies like me is beyond appreciated. See you in my future lol. 🤙🏿

[@BossMan302]

When I put my pipes and air cleaner on my check engine light came on. When I put the canned FP3 tune in the check engine light went away. I get the dyno shows the same torque and HP curve but that’s only a tiny slice of the pie. The correct answer is yes you need a tune for proper fueling ANY time you change the air flow.

[@Quintenpint]

Would you guys ever consider adding European countries to the bike give away? Really liking your content and it gave me the final push to finally start getting my motorcycle licence! Keep on going!

[@rsanchez5676]

Progressivity is a mode change that something like the rbw skull does but it was an option on the old screaming eagle tuner

[@420biker]

I have a question !? I just put a Hpi exhaust and air cleaner on my 2022 lowrider st! Now is it necessary to tune it or can I ride it fine without the tune period thank you . Dope Channel ! Wish you guys were in California !

[@MostawesomistOG]

Did you take the baffles out? I have the same exhaust on a 114 and I could definitely feel a loss of bottom end with them removed. Just wondering if that explains the little dip in tq.

[@roadkingrider6532]

I’m actually going to dyno tune my stage 1 in a week. Think it makes sense to do it.

[@1genuine_g619]

Great info...... But that shirt is Awesome!!! 👍

[@andrewkellicutt3222]

I have a harley-davidson v-rod muscle with 2 into 1 exhaust with wideband o2 sensors and open airbox using target tune and power vision runs great but was wondering if a actual dyno tune would be better or even needed

[@mikeg4501]

Bike sounds nice!

[@BoringFisherman]

So with my 2022 flht if I put just a drop in filter in the airbox and leave the stock mufflers, would I need a tune? I enjoy the fuel economy as it is, and for me the power is dynamically good.

[@carlosmorais274]

After watching this video I think you the right guy for me ask something that is going on w my 2019 Indian chieftain she as a lag in the throttle specially when I’m stoped and got to make a left or a right when I got the bike it came w rinehart exhaust and Performance Machine Max HP Air Cleaner ,I’ve no more info about it not sure if they ever tune the bike after adding the exhaust and the air cleaner…I’m about to do a ECU FLASH W DYNO JET YOU THINK THAT IS THE WAY TO GO THANKS

[@sandspyd3r717]

How much would a Stage 1 map & dyno tune like this cost? (for the exact same bike - everything you guys did in the vid)

[@loganpflanz4514]

Hey, is the screamin eagle stage 1 canned map generally in a safe AFR and ignition timing for a random exhaust? (Not slip ons)

[@parkeslife4323]

Great video guys. I'm interested to know from Chris as the tuner, Run 1 what was the AFR? Many people as you know just do pipes and high flow air cleaner for the look and sound, but skip any sort of tuning. Potential lean running longer term damage is what I want to know. A high flow filter in a stock air cleaner cover and slip ons maybe not so bad. But when you go open air high flow filter and full system exhaust, how severe is the difference to AFR?

[@manny1470]

My questions exactly. It's not so much about HP and TQ numbers but more about AFR's and the potential for a lean condition.

[@parkeslife4323]

@@manny1470 yes. I will say they tend to run better when they're not heat seized. 😁

[@XL883CNick]

So out of all this, the newer M8 Harleys have enough fuel to allow an air cleaner and pipes without a tune? Air/fuel was not mentioned nor looked at after the initial pull which was my curiosity with the stock tune and higher flowing parts installed. Looking forward to the stage 2 vid.

[@jackc6299]

Insightful video, thank you. I am one of those guys who just bought a 2011 Street Bob and dont have the details about its history. I am told it had Screaming Eagle Tune. I am guessing that is like the maps you were using. Is there a way to find this out without going "Full Dyno" on it?

[@BlockheadMoto]

If no SE tuner connected to it or proof of receipts, not really

[@clarkbabin9799]

In the internet or computer world a delay is known as lag time or just lag. Basically means the same as delay or lack of response. I'm on my fifth bike two of which had at least stage one tuning. The newer bike had an electronic throttle and so does my current bike. I would've never thought an electronic throttle could be so responsive. I don't know if the first bike had a dyno tune since I bought it used but it was quick and if you wasnt prepared it could easily get away from you. The second bike with a stage one was a roadglide with a 114 mlk 8 and it was at least responsive as the first bike with a stage kit on it. I was just thinking as you were pulling that bike into the dyno room . How cool would it be if you could rig up some LEDs in there that light in brightness according to the throttle position. I mean really.

[@JK-wr6is]

Love the shirt, Chris.

[@thevamprieboy]

I need to know what headlamp your running in there. I can’t find anything to fit 18 and later softail for my street bob

[@jikwag3415]

I have a stock 114 low rider s with just slip on Vance and Hines. How much would you guys charge for a map for that set up?? Or dyno tune whatever it is to work with what I've got

[@azizelhaboubi7696]

Best shop in America

[@phillipmckeownakalucifer.6689]

I'm needing this info bad did a k and n filter change. .... Hear I need a tune