Does Lionel Messi really need to win a World Cup to be considered the GOAT? | ESPN FC

[@matumatu5094]

Ok the debate ends... Messi is indeed the G.O.A.T now..

[@modinikiluli]

Yes indeed I was a cr7 man too. But to be the best in any sport you have to win that sports biggest prize which messi now has done.

[@Add10101]

champion of the world ☝️🇦🇷🏆

[@padraigmurphy3540]

"You can't compare players of different eras." .... but let me compare Messi to Maradonna for my main point...

[@vickash1072]

Padraig Murphy lolll 👌

[@marysophy3665]

no, he said, it is difficult to compare them at club levels, because there were no champions league for Pele... And the Maradonna C1 was different... The world cup is the only common element they all share... That's why he believes it is fair to then compare them on WC level... When actually, even the WC too is very different from back then, and please if you take Messi with his gifted skills, you bring him back to that time, removing the modern physicality, Messi would win you all the WC you want... Because when you see videos of Messi when he was a kid, there is no difference from how he played in his prime... Dribbling past players like they were nothing... So even if he were born at a different era, Messi would still perform because what he has isn't necessarily related to today's sport's level, I reckon...

[@padraigmurphy3540]

@@marysophy3665 you agreed with what I said about Shaka about mid way through that reply. And I totally agree about what you said on Messi.

[@rajdas1201]

It's wonderful to watch this video at 2:45 AM on 31st December, 2022 after Lionel Messi won the FIFA World Cup on 18th December, beating France in the final just about two weeks ago. Also, last night we lost Pele, who was 82 years old. Just a couple of years back, we also lost Diego Maradona, who was 60 years old. It seems so odd that at the time of this video, both Pele and Maradona were alive, the world had not yet been hit by COVID 19 and Messi had not yet won anything with Argentina. The only regret for football fans is that Maradona could not watch his beloved Argentina win the World Cup as well as the Copa America, which Messi's Argentina won in 2021 beating Brazil at the Maracana. Let this comment be a timestamp for future generations of people who get this video recommended by KZbin. "Time and tide wait for none".

[@scipio123]

Hear, hear! Happy New Year!

[@jrivas4038]

So we gonna act like messi didnt carry argentina to the last world cup?

[@Tyrantlizardking52]

hypebeast official and choked in the finals as well as choked in penalties in the Copa America and wanted to retire

[@josecarloscosta5220]

Actually Argentina's best player in Brazil was Di Maria. Messi was good, but not on his level.

[@jrivas4038]

Keak Da Hyphy and ronaldo didnt even played in the final and he get all the credit for portugal winning

[@Papimiguelangel]

HOW WAS DI MARIA BETTER THAN MESSI IN THE WORLD CUP WTF HE GOT INJURED 🤦🏽‍♂️ people are so stupid these days i swear

[@aidenfrost10]

Jose Carlos Costa Argentina's best player in the WC was none other than Messi! Who got the crucial late goals during the extremely defense minded and impenetrable teams like Bosnia and Iran? One important thing to understand is that unless your difference in quality with another team in the knockout stages are drastic, the game will almost certainly go to ET and Penalties.

[@p.cheevers9783]

Skaka will be remembered for not calling Messi the goat, that's his identity now lol..

[@ruddock7]

i respect Shaka for not being a sheep and not just agreeing for the sake of it

[@praseeshprabhakar882]

@@ruddock7 coming from brazilian fan..get out of here..

[@praseeshprabhakar882]

Shaka never saw pele play..haha

[@jasonbrown2215]

How can he be the GOAT when he played so lame in a different system. He's never won a world cup went to 5 or 6 international finals and couldn't bring the team over the line once. 0 goals 0 assist. He was In the perfect system at Barcelona, he took over 100 games to win one trophy with Argentina. He's no goat. GOATs dominate the game on their debut. Lets see how this season goes and the world cup. You fanboys are so ignorant to the game

[@p.cheevers9783]

@@jasonbrown2215 it's not about systems , just watch him play the game.. he's just different

[@UyemaHD]

Shaka logic is really flawed. One) Yes, Messi has not dominated a World Cup tournament, however he was Argentina best player, by far, there was no comparison to any player on that team other than Mascherano. That being said the Copa America 2016, Messi had 5 goals and 4 Assist, thats darn close to Maradona WC86' of 5 goals and 5 Assists. Not saying CA and WC are on the same level, but to say Messi has not lit up a International Tournament is a false statement. Two) Its stupid to say that Muller is better than Messi just cause he has a WC. Muller is no where near the level Messi is seen. Lets take a player who is considered an all-time great, Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho has won everything there is to win on a individual and collective level. He won the WC, be a key part in the team. However, subjectively, to me Ronaldinho is the most joyful, entertaining and most beautiful player to watch. Objectively, which has more weight, Messi has been far superior player than Ronaldinho ever was. Messi is ruled for over a decade, no other player has done that. Not Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Zidane, Platini, Beckenbaur, maybe Di Stefano. Ronaldinho was once the best player for like 2 years, so this is far more comparable since both have been considered the best in their time. My point is that stats, individual award and collective trophy dont determine is a player is the best, its the eye test. It sounds a bit crazy but there is a clear difference when it comes to being "Great" and being the "Best". Maradona may or may not be greater than Messi, but in terms of being the best which the basis of the ability on the field, no one has played the game better than Lionel Messi. Even when I said stats, personal and team trophies should NOT constitute where a player is, they just add more to Messi's name.

[@fortminor.]

UyemaHD Brazilian Ronaldo is much more of an complete player than Messi if we are going to your eye test logic lol.

[@MrSquaky]

As far as pure ability goes, Ronaldinho was more talented then Messi. Brazilian Ronaldo too. And both CR7, Pele, Beckenbauer and Zidane have all been dominate over a decade as well.

[@EM-ds9cd]

LeTrash Blew 5 Finals #Lavs 4-1 #Never Forget Zidane had a much better international team... You can say whatever but the bottom line is NOBODY would win WC with this Argentina team...Messi has carried Barcelona... Wtf you talking about!? Messi most goals in LaLiga history AND most assists in LaLiga history HOW DOES THAT WORK!? most goals AND assists in EL CLASICO history, even tho Ronaldinho / Zidane / CR7 / R9 played this fixture atleast twice a year...they each had a superior national team...SIMPLE. you talk about Messi not winning man of match 2015 UCL final,.. Remind me who was the difference in the semi final???! Who was the difference in all the barca El clasico victories??? Who has been Barcas star player in UCL for last 10 years!??? In that case I can say Pele was carried by Brazil?? I can say Ronaldinho was carried by Brazil??? The only player out of these past greats I would truly call a hero is Diego Maradona.. But Messi is his mirror image and has done it for a decade,I'm no Barca fan..I'm not Argentine... But Messi is the best I've seen. You Have you're opinion.

[@aidenfrost10]

LeTrash Blew 5 Finals #Lavs 4-1 #Never Forget not performed for them in UCL finals? Who scored in both the finals in 2008 and 2012 CL? Who thrashed Bayern in the Semis for their CL win in the final against Juve in 2015? What point are you trying to make? I'll tell you what, a completely asinine one.

[@MrSquaky]

+Electric Momentum7 If Cristiano could win the Euro with the limited talent he had on Portugal then there's no excuse Messi can't win with an Argentina team that has been ranked NUMBER 1 in the world for 4 of the last 5 years. Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria, Marcherano, and Otamendi. Now about to have Dybala, Icardi and Biglia, his team is stacked and still somehow has come up with zero trophies and choking away every single final. On Barca he's been surrounded by the best players in the world his whole career. Ronaldinho, Henry, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez and Neymar are all Ballon D'or finalists. Not to mention Pique, Villa, Puyol and Yaya Toure he's also played with. And it's in a lopsided league where the competition outside of the Madrid's is at MLS level, he was supposed to win all those trophies on the club level. Yet on the International stage it's donut.

[@lich5164four]

5:53 The only guy that makes any sense.

[@AmitKumar-tw1sj]

and u make sense blind hater

[@footballingnostalgia]

@Greet Gysen lmao

[@jross9800]

He has already proven he’s the best of all time. He has won it all except a World Cup which he almost did with a national team that struggled. Messi has been more consistent than any other player. What he can do on the pitch is unparalleled especially by poaching players that depend on strong teams to win.

[@RazerGonth]

Wanna give an update bro?

[@Rushberg]

Shaka forgot the fact that Messi led Argentina to World Cup finals

[@forshigity5000]

and lost....

[@Nolbert24]

“But he lost! By one goal! He can’t be the best ever!!

[@nicksketch7122]

Yeah..he led Argentina to the World-Cup Finale 2014. We were a better team than Germany that year..

[@dontbefooledbyjumla7869]

Which teams they met on way? Nigeria, Suitzerland (1 0) and a weak Belgium( 1 0). The moment they met a big team they lost. They scraped through quarter and semi just lucky.

[@addisonlewis8581]

@@dontbefooledbyjumla7869 you forgot the dutch

[@matthewbeadle4529]

He won player of the tournament in 2014 and he didn't even win it.

[@raheemwilson894]

Matthew Beadle didn't deserve player of the tournament

[@matthewbeadle4529]

True, Muller should've won it but it was close between the two.

[@justinhernandez6734]

Matthew Beadle you’re wrong James Rodriguez should’ve won it

[@94Knights]

cmon you act as if it wasnt debatable

[@matthewbeadle4529]

But Rodriguez didn't make it that far.

[@kris102691]

Because messi is the greatest player of all time that's why.

[@kris102691]

But true you need to win a world cup

[@martinrosario4018]

kristyan gonzalez you just contradicted yourself lol

[@kris102691]

Martin Rosario I know lol but Messi is great but I don't think he will win a World Cup cause he gets no help and soccer is a team sport and when it counts he gets no one on the team to help him he puts the team on his back. Look at the past World Cup they lost to a complete team Messi can't do it all no matter how great he is

[@martinrosario4018]

kristyan gonzalez he has some great help the problem is they don’t work as a team and it’s up to Messi to be a leader if he ever wants to overcome the last obstacle that’s why imo I have Ronaldo slightly higher because Ronaldo finally showed leadership when his country won the euro last year

[@randomguy189]

Martin Rosario What did Ronaldo do that Messi didnt accomplish with his team? As far as I know Ronaldo didnt play the final, so in essence his leadership led the team to the Euros final, while Messi already did it 4 times (3 times consecutively) with Argentina.

[@AMARAT101]

Black dude was not trying to listen to any argument. The other guy was saying that Messi still outshines his teammates that were way better than any of maradona or pele ‘s

[@samuelgyamfi908]

Black dude talk too much. U don't know anything about football.

[@mangshu21]

messi has never lost a game..what were u saying?? see i can do it too

[@peterkynde7496]

Shaka: Against a team that’s ranked 35th in the world Dude, that’s still a good team considering there’s more than 200 teams

[@うちはマダラ-g2c]

now he is the GOAT.

[@cavaliib1889]

You legend I was waiting for this comment ‼️‼️‼️🔥🔥🐐🐐🐐

[@Frazful]

World Cup is not even the hardest competition in the world. Both Messi and Cristiano proved to be Gods in the Champions League, which is by far the hardest. These national teams only train together a couple of times every three months, and face subpar teams in the world cup until the final 4.

[@la-do-ra-ch6810]

+Haagen WTF are you talking about you idiot? The World Cup is only every 4 years! You only have 3-4 chances MAX if you're lucky to be playing for a great nation. The Champions League is every single year and you get a chance every yr, especially if you're playing for a top club. The World Cup is much harder to win. Cristiano, Messi and Robben have won champions league titles and none have won the WC. WC is also a one game knockout which makes it harder because anything can happen in one game, like going to penalties.

[@captainweasel-ew4tg]

Haagen Messi fanboy detected

[@raulvazquez5041]

Achilles Caezar You for sure have a smaller chance to win the World Cup, but in the Champions League (including group stages) those teams have the best players in the world. In the final 2 it has the best 22 players in the world, and the bench guys on the teams more than likely start on a team back home. Make the Champions League every 4 years and that becomes a far greater accomplishment than the World Cup.

[@la-do-ra-ch6810]

+Raul Vazquez can't be greater accomplishment because you have like 4 teams from each top league making the champions league. 4 teams can make it from Preimer for example. There's a bunch of very good teams with great squads but at the end of the day there's really only about 4 teams that can really win the champions league every yr. The World Cup is the same but much tougher not just because it's every 4 years but because it's also ONE and DONE. You don't play two legs and you are playing in neutral fields unless you're a host team. Messi, Cristiano, and RObben for example have won the champions league at least ONCE. How many of them have won the WC? None.

[@dennisgatere7821]

Haagen you just gave the reasons why it is the hardest competition in your statements. Because you don't train or have chemistry with these players and have to perform regardless for an entire month till the final that's what makes it harder. That's what makes a great player, put you in a team and you have to perform with whoever made it into the National team to win a major trophy

[@KingC11]

Messi being compared to pele and Maradona just shows how great he is

[@endifernandez9358]

The Skip Bayless of fútbol

[@hectorguzman3758]

Lol Shaka is not a hater ! You guys are asking his opinion!!! lol y'all silly

[@unforgiving-i4190]

Watch your mouth

[@infinitezest3912]

Except Messi is the Jordan of Futbol and everyone knows this. He's the GOAT by every metric and it's really not even a debate.

[@rualtevez7748]

Infinite Zest 😂😂😂 Jordan won 6 finals 6 and lost ZERO Messi has lost FOUR finals and win ZERO 😭😭😭 🏆❌🏆❌🏆❌🏆❌ He's layed 4 real stinkers in the finals he's played Who cares about the Olympic gold or his under 20

[@EpicVideoMaster11]

Rual Tevez Jordan doesn't have a World Cup so therefore not comparable. The Champions League could work as an example where has 4 but has lost a few.

[@alexbrice07]

These pundits are ridiculous 😂😂😂. What Ronaldo did with Sweden was similar to what Messi did that game... No knowledge whatsoever... Ridiculous. Messi is the GOAT even nowadays Barcelona are carried by him. People will realise how good he is when he retires

[@lazmaroulis6686]

Alex Brice Ronaldo's performance was greater because he did it against a better team. There's my argument where's yours? Because you literally just spat out your opinion and it was not substantiated.

[@therandomguyl384]

Tadeo Catania when did argentina lose to Brazil in finals

[@netranayan5620]

Alex Brice

[@josesalgado6251]

You can't compare Sweden with Ecuador it's incomparable!

[@danielmoseley6946]

That bitch bottled 4 finals and retired.....HE AINT SHIT

[@MrAA2014]

Regardless if he wins a World Cup, we may never see a player like Messi again. He is the 🐐

[@pranjalsinha1427]

Steve won the debate by just one phrase, " A decade!"

[@michaeltrumph121]

Steve is an idiot. Pele, Maradona, CR7 - also have a decade.

[@thomasanderson2384]

@@michaeltrumph121 CR7 never reached a WC final So Leave him out of the convo lol Pele was carried in most of his WCs Only Maradona can be taken seriously

[@michaeltrumph121]

@@thomasanderson2384 CR7 won a Euro with an average Portugal team. His international career is far better than that of Messi. And Pele wasn't carried anywhere, he was instrumental in 58 and 70

[@shreya_2925]

@@michaeltrumph121 You’re just plain wrong mate. Messi has won player of the tournament multiple times with Argentina, something cr7 has never done. not to mention, he’s never taken portugal near a world cup final. And portugal was not average 😂😂

[@Shubham10SrP]

@@michaeltrumph121 yeah? Messi won The World Cup, Copa America, Finalissma, Olympic Gold with Argentina. Also won the player of the tournament in all of them. International Legacy Cemented. 🤫

[@ankirai1]

Giroud won the world cup with France. GOAT Shaka? 😂

[@csokopsglazersout7447]

Lmfao

[@talkfootballdaily1973]

@Ivan Quintero How fast and strong were the defenders when Pele played with compared to modern football.

[@talkfootballdaily1973]

@Ivan Quintero Question if Pele played for that Argentina team Messi had and Messi played with Pele's team, who would win more WCs

[@talkfootballdaily1973]

@Ivan Quintero Obviously you aren't answering the question because the answer is so obvious. Messi is the GOAT. The defenders back then are not even close to the defenders these days and Messi is running through them like knocking bowling pins. Pele was just fortunate to be Brazilian otherwise he wouldn't be in the discussion.

[@talkfootballdaily1973]

@Ivan Quintero Using ur logic I could say Iniesta, Gotze, Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann are all better than Messi

[@kofitoronto9645]

Do I have bad memory or was Argentina not in the last world cup final?...I think luck plays a huge part. The dude been trying his best for Argentina

[@tedb2012tb]

Messi is the greatest of all time. I feel embarrassed putting ronaldo in the same sentence as him. Enough said.

[@matheusjezini]

Matheus Alves You should be the one getting yourself checked, he’s absolutely right, not just about Cr7 but regarding R10 amd R9 too

[@fandomewhisper]

He is not. and you know in your heart that he's not.

[@fantagerobloxandmore]

If Ronaldo is better than messi how come they consider him the greatest of all time and say Ronaldo is only better than messi

[@climate-moneymakingcampaig305]

Bro ronaldo invested many social tricks on his fans to involve their emotion to his place in football , he told them he had some enemies in football organisations that dont let him grow in football and booooom today u see his fans screaming to give his non-existed right back ! dont take them serious ;)

[@djcliffjoseph6148]

Ure a fool

[@fcb3338]

No. He's already the GOAT.

[@newcustomeralert4368]

Tadeo Catania how can he win the WC when the rest of the team is shit???? You shoult thank him that he carried Argentina in the finals.

[@Akpar11]

NOPE

[@subhadipkayal]

The funny reason why Argentina lose the FIFA world cup 2018 - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnO9c5ysq7V8gcWj

[@michaeltrumph121]

No he is not.

[@leosalvo1070]

Messi is the greatest player ever! 10 years of Incredible football ! Maradona had an Incredible World Cup 86 and a few incredible seasons with Napoli..

[@forshigity5000]

My girlfriend watched Argentina and messi in the world cup. She said is that messi? He's not very impressive as people make him out to be."

[@prozmystery]

SHAKA,"PELE WON 3 WORLD CUPSSSS." PELE 1ST WC doesn't win GOLDEN BALL.LMFAO PELE 2ND WC: 0 MATCH PLAYED.LMFAOOOO PELE 3RD WC NO GOLDEN BALL,NO GOLDEN BOOT(and he is a goalscoring machine). hahahaha

[@havertzthefuturegoat2518]

messi played more wcs lost all, 1 golden ball, no golden boot. stfu

[@havertzthefuturegoat2518]

@Matthew Akuza Pele played 2 finals, Maradona played 2 finals, Pele won both, Maradona won 1 (1986) and lost 1 (1990), and Maradona lost the final bc they couldn't play their ideal starting 11 and he had played the whole tournament injured, even Messi's golden ball was sketch should have gone to muller imo

[@michaeltrumph121]

Pele played 2 games in 62, you moron.

[@GeorgeCostanza00]

Shaka's shtick is really getting old. He is embarrassing himself.

[@voldmerot]

Nah I thought he brought up some salient points, managed to sway that dude sitting to his left despite the 3 whiteboys employing their mob mentality in the debate, didn't see anything embarrassing there personally.

[@lighto6442]

@@voldmerot it is embarrassing he keeps repeating the same debunked point despite the other guys refuting it over and over at this point its an embarrassment

[@voldmerot]

@@lighto6442 you're right it is embarrassing that Messi hasn't won a world Cup yet

[@lighto6442]

@@voldmerot I agree its embarrassing to actually think a team like current Argentina can win a world cup but not as embarrassing as shaka

[@voldmerot]

@@lighto6442 it's okay I'm sure your boy's got one measly World Cup in him, I mean he's supposedly the G.O.A.T. right? So if that's the case then I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch yet, just wait and see what the little guy can muster up on the world stage in the near future.

[@AMARAT101]

Just depends on how you label goat, if you count achievements Messi needs the World Cup. But if you are going talent and skill based only Messi is goat.

[@AZMTECH]

Talent and skills Ronaldo Fenômeno is the goat

[@escamunicha4276]

Lol Ronaldo Fenomeno is not even the best player in Real Madrid in his time. he's at best only top 10 but barely.

[@AZMTECH]

You don´t know what you´re saying, mate. At 17 Ronaldo was already on the bench for Romário (at his peak) and Bebeto in the 94 World Cup winning team. By 21 he had 2 FIFA best player of the year. At the same age Messi was winning his first. Needless to point out that he lost 3 years of his career due to serious knee injuries. Still recovered from the first one, won a World Cup and got another FIFA trophy. Messi is brilliant. Best ball control and precision maybe ever. But you can´t compare that to the crativity, raw talent, speed and strengh of Ronaldo. He brought so much more to the game than just control and precision. He was magical to watch. Broke records in every team he played for. Messi has been playing in the same team and with the same people since he was 13. That´s why he´s not accomplished with his national team. U say Ronaldo wasn´t the best in Real Madrid? Ask Zidane, that always said that Ronaldo was his idol, the best player he´s ever seen. U must be pretty young. But don´t believe the hype, mate. Think for yourself. If u didn´t see any of Ronaldo´s games, then u have nothing to say about it.

[@PinkWeightLoss1]

this dude only know of r9 when he went to madrid,he don't know barca,psv and inter r9

[@TheAfricanNightDemon]

Lucas Sales Messi is better than both Ronaldo's, Messi is more consistent.

[@amroghaith8942]

There was a champions league when pele was playing,it just that pele did not play in Europe, and maradona has only 2 goals in it and never reached to the semi finals Espn really needs to stick with the american sports.

[@MMunstoppable03]

amro ghaith you say that but none of them are American lol

[@Jon_Tanjore]

Shaka : "wait you Can't say that" Stevie: " I have just said it" Shaka : 6:36😂😅🤣

[@higinio7735]

For people that don't know. On the second WC that Pele won, Garincha was MVP of the tournament and Top Scorer.

[@demonpunisher9337]

I always tell them.. They hide Garincha bra.... At least Messi has a world cup now

[@Ichrllyreborn]

DANCE NOW,DANCE NOW ~ Lionel messi 2022🤫🤫🤫

[@TenThumbsProductions]

Nobody hates on Ronaldo for getting bounced with Portugal in the first round. Messi is being punished because he was born in a country that has history. If he was born in Mexico and was doing the same thing people would not hold this against him, Argentinian and Brazilian born players are held to a different standard for the GOAT. Messi is number 1!!!!!

[@claudemakelele2856]

Lol...people hate on Messi because he is being overrated by the media. They put him above some greats from Argentina while he hasn't done half of what some of those greats did.

[@rollercoaster478]

Logic: Pele isnt the GOAT because he had amazing teammates with which he won the WC, so he didnt need to carry them (but he did have the biggest impact) Logic: Messi is the GOAT because his teammates on club level are better than anyone Pele played with (questionable but ok). And among Argentinians he is the best, but his country mates are not good enough to win the WC, but its not Messi's fault he doesnt carry them. Conclusion: You cant have it both ways. And I agree with Shaka.

[@piscesman54]

It's very simple. WC's are won by TEAMS, not individual players. Messi has done what nobody else has done in football terms. He doesn't need to win a WC.

[@rollercoaster478]

@@piscesman54 what exactly has Messi done that nobody else has? Pele has more goals scored. More WC titles than him. Those are pretty much the most important things in football.

[@piscesman54]

@@rollercoaster478 If you can't see it for yourself, there's no point in explaining it. Pelé played at a time when the pace of play was about half of what it is today and he never played in Europe. WC's are won by teams, not individual players. Messi's magic cannot be measured statistically.

[@arroe8386]

"I don't think we achieve anything by taking merits away from Pele and Maradona in order to make the argument for Lionel Messi." - Ale and Shaka while taking merits away from Messi

[@hasselett]

This just proves that the most obstinate Messi detractors will die on their hill, no matter what. Shaka has said dozens of times on the broadcast that Messi needs to win a WC trophy to be considered the GOAT. Messi has won it now, but Shaka is yet to change his stance. Clearly, he has no intention to revise his opinion on the matter, nor did he ever have any intention to, either. If that’s not a lack of integrity, I don’t know what is.

[@rowandabakker6831]

Messi is the goat now!!!

[@oscarkulkarni6112]

Messi has performed on the WC stage, he carried them to the final last time

[@abdulbabatunde9151]

Nope he carried them past d group stage

[@namedclaiming821]

@@abdulbabatunde9151 he was talking about 2014 you moron

[@abdulbabatunde9151]

@@namedclaiming821 and i repeat what i said HE CARRIED THEM THROUGH THE GROUP STAGE.The defence and defensive midfield carried them to the final

[@epicfan1598]

@@abdulbabatunde9151 Messi was involved in all of argentina's goals except for one. Thats carrying. they wouldn't have made it past switzerland and belgium with out him. The defense carried vs netherlands and germany

[@abdulbabatunde9151]

@@epicfan1598 I'm not going to repeat myself again after this HE CaARRIED them out of the group stage,That's all he did period.the defense and defensive midfield carried them to the final.he had only 1 assist and no goals in the ko stage.THATS NOT CARRYING

[@tusharpsn3351]

"I DONT THINK ANYONE ELSE COULD HAVE DONE THAT" Ronaldo did it 4 years ago against sweden with zlatan Common i think messi is better,but these guys just ignore ronaldo

[@SI-cd7xs]

Messi fanboys have to ignore reality on a constant basis, ignore how much of a choker and flat track bully Messi is, ignore how talented Argentina is, ignore how ronaldo has been more clutch

[@arroe8386]

I think they meant the way he did it, not just that he scored the goals

[@wallahhabibiiii]

@@SI-cd7xs lol troll spotted

[@adarsh1184]

@@SI-cd7xs ronaldo fanboys ignore reality on a constant basis, ignore how messi won copa america by beating brazil in their backyard, ignore he won best player of the tournament 4 times including world cup best player, ignore he won the golden boot, ignore he has the most assists in the tournament, ignore and pretend that they don't know messi is going to win another ballon d'or.. all they know is their idol is going to wear a "no 7" just to honour messi's 7th ballon D'or... what a guy!

[@SI-cd7xs]

@@adarsh1184 I’m not a ronaldo fanboy he’s massively overrated but Messi did not win copa on his own, he was garbage in the final total choke job but the rest got the job done. Messi fanboys kill me acting like Argentina isn’t a top 5 team int he world.

[@ddrdevildog]

Maradona,Pele, Messi, CR7. Everyone out of those 4 can be CONSIDERED the GOAT. You can never definitely say who is or isnt the best in a TEAM SPORT. Which one u pick is up to you, but saying Messi can't even be considered is ignorant beyond belief.

[@mopedsaucechateaux4091]

ddrdevildog CR7 can do nothing on the highest echelon of the league . Even Van Basten is better than him .

[@Blaydoner]

Many players have been better than CR7, if you're talking about goals then Ronaldo is up there with the very best but if you're talking about talent Zidane, R9, Ronaldinho, Romario are better than him.

[@therandomguyl384]

Mopedsauce Chateaux even Neymar is better than cr7

[@X5J2UY]

you are so incredibly ignorant. CR7 DOMINATED the premier league for 4 years, he could dribble past 3-4 players easily, scoring 34 as a TRUE WINGER at that time and changed his style once he became older at Real Madrid to become a goalmachine. R9 and Ronaldinho will never be as good as CR7 or Messi. Maybe talentwise they were on the same level, but they peaked for max. 3 years (in a 15 year career), while CR7 and Messi have been dominating football for 10 years now. They both have won more CL, more league trophies, more ballon d'Or, scored and assisted more goals. The only thing those 2 brazilians have achieved in comparison is the WorldCup, CR7 even carried his national team to the finals, where he got injured (but was still crucial for the european cup). He also scored 5 goals against bayern (top3team), 3 againt atletico (nr.2 best defensive team) and 2 in the final against juve (nr. 1 best defensive team). If you really think that ronaldo/ronaldinho are even close to Messi/CR7 you are out of your mind. They had the brasilian flair and were super fun to watch but career- and statisticwise it ain't even close mate !

[@sportentertainment9607]

ddrdevildog dude I think the argument is about who is the best who played the sport and not who scored more tap ins or penalties . If we talk about talent then there is no place for Cr7 even in the best 10 .

[@franklinrajss2310]

Now Messi Won the world cup, Messi is the Goat 👑🏅🥇🏆 Shaka where are you 😂😂😂

[@dariandavid9437]

So when Ronaldo scored a hattrick against Sweden to qualify for 2014 WC. Why wasn't there any GOAT debates???

[@Akpar11]

Messi is not the greatest of all time! He needs to win the world cup or ANY international trophy to prove that he is the greatest. In Barcelona he was is surrounded by legends of the game like Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Puyol, etc. He had these guys to fall back on in case he had bad days. Even in the international team, he has amazing talent dybala, Higuain, etc etc the list is endless in the Argentinian team. So Messi will never ever be the best in the world until he wins the world cup even with all this talent at his disposal!.

[@StudyProgress-xc1dy]

He did 🎉

[@hvltg3753]

No one else from this generation could have done this? Ronaldo did pretty much the same thing against Sweden. He is right that Messi should not be considered the best ever until he wins with his country. Pele, Maradona, C Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldo... None of those guys got a pass on the international stage. Why should Messi?

[@danielrodriguesfcb3559]

😉

[@danielrodriguesfcb3559]

Copa 2021

[@lukiehenry7787]

Cristiano Ronaldo, has done this already . He did it against Sweden in the wcq play off four years ago. So come you are saying no body in this generation has never done this before.

[@josevaldezvilla8498]

Lukie Henry 0 goals in worlds cups?

[@Deadpool-cy6yt]

Jose Valdez Villa he has 2.

[@assadidzhazovich9549]

Just to those who say that CR7 never performed on world cup as good as messi let me tell you one thing guys portugal ended up 4th in 2006 and CR7 had one goal. CR7 has scored 7 goals compared to messi's 5. Yeah now you will say that messi made Argentina to the final but look at the squads of Argentina and Portugal. Huge difference Por made one time to semis, two times to round of 16 and one time out of the group stage (while CR7 scored 7) Arg made one time to the final,two times to the quarter finals and one time to the round of 16 (while messi scored 5) and now if you are unbiased you will also agree that Argentina had overall better squad than portugal in the last 4 world cups so that does make CR7 and messi's performance equal in the world cup

[@szevasztopol6797]

Shaka doesn't make any sense. When he was asked about if Ronaldo wins the world cup would he be better than Messi, he answered that no, Messi would still be better for him. So if you can not even compare and decide who's the better player from the same generation with the help of the world cup, how could you compare them across multiple eras?

[@mohammednizam3945]

I have been watching a lot of these espn shows lately and i can tell you that the only guys here who makes sense are the host guy , the english old guy and that Gab guy outside the studio

[@niteshlunawat7388]

Shaka should look at this video and look at his stance now 😂😂

[@sunnyb9111]

For me, Messi is the best. I love to watch him play. And that's it.

[@grock5209]

Even if Leo doesn’t win the World Cup he still the best ever of all times.....

[@Michael.Tyle.]

To be fair Shaka was right, logically to be crowned the best you have to get the greatest accolade, and in Messi's case it's the World Cup Medal it's just a tie breaker in comparison to others and I'm glad he has it now-From a huge Messi fan.

[@DanAk1987]

I still can’t believe he did it man. Goosebumps.

[@mustafin24]

This Shaka is so out of the conversation, how has he ended up in a talk show?

[@nulrai4513]

4:41 “Pele won 3 world cups” Since when did WC became a Brazilian league?

[@viswanath6463]

Pele did win 3 WCs although he wasn't brazil's best player in any of them.

[@forshigity5000]

@@viswanath6463 ARE YOU HIGH?

[@sumzk]

@@forshigity5000 he wasn't lol, maybe check history.

[@quentinkubrick1018]

@@forshigity5000 he wasnt lmao. In 1958,his teammate alone scored 13 goals. 13 GOALS. By comparision,Argentina as a whole scored 7 goals in their run to the final out of which messi scored 5 and assisted 2. In 1962,Pele was injured and sent home in the group stage and Brazil still won. In 1970,Pele finally showed up and scored 4 goals and won a golden ball(same as messi) but guess what, his teammate jairzinho scored 7 goals😂😂🤔.Pele biggest fraud lmao.

[@forshigity5000]

@@quentinkubrick1018 that tell that to the greatest icons of his generation that played with and against him. The fact that you use the term fraud tells me your football IQ is low.

[@MrNick007b]

being considered a GOAT is about legacy...in 50 years we'll still remember the peles and maradonnas lifting world cups. If messi doesn't lift the trophy like maradonna, he wont leave that same legacy and will most likely be forgotten more easily

[@MW2Freakz2010]

messi will never be forgotten. He's clearly the best player of all time and will be remembered that way. If not, then that would be a travesty.

[@dwangdi123]

MrNick007b he will be forgotten?? Are your serious man?? Or are you high?

[@felixs6318]

you MUST be an american. only an american would value a player only by his titels. Messi will be remembered as the best human beeing played football, hands down. basically he has nothing left to proove.

[@Raymond10ful]

Raymond10ful We keep making excuses for messi and he is not the goat he is overrated and doesn't play like he does for Barcelona for Argentina how can C.Ronaldo perform for Portugal and messi doesn't for Argentina at this level and messi has no excuse he has had 4 world cups to prove himself the best and unlike Maradona and Pele who have performed messi has not.

[@djohn779]

Hahahahahahhahhahhahahahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahah..

[@duckwave4449]

Tie breaker? Messi is so far ahead at club level to Maradona, that this doesn’t get close to a tie breaker

[@jakethesnake2x]

Messi is not the GOAT, he is not even the best player alive. He playes football a certain way that people like to see, and that he is so popular. Unfortunetly he needs a very special team around him to function, and if that is not there he can't win over high quality opponents. This is why Ronaldo is a much better player overall, he can adapt to a situation and make a many different kind of teams a winning team.

[@goatscorer6932]

Argentina doesn't have very good midfielders, and historically it's the same really. So Messi being the top scorer of Argentina is a very good achivement, considering that Argentina bases itself on its attackers. Ronaldo, on the other hand, has Bernardo Silva, Fernandes, and other players. Barcelona's midfield is very strong, indeed, but since Messi is a winger, he's not a fox in the box player, he's more of a playmaker, and strikers rely on playmakers to give them the ball. So it would actually be different, Barcelona and Argentina rely on Messi all the time, and I can back this up with the fact that Messi has the highest match rating in Barcelona, Argentina, and the whole world currently, according to WhoScored. Also, Ronaldo played in teams which were already winners, Sporting Lisboa was in the big three of Portugal, Manchester United had won the Premier League several times, Real Madrid was Barcelona's only contender most of the time, and Juventus has won the Serie A since the 2011-2012 season. Messi also had to adapt to his very different managers over the time, because you can't compare Guardiola to Valverde, or Enrique to Rijkaard. Which is why he was able to adapt from a LW to a RW position, then into a False 9 and a CF, while also being a RW in other matches. So Messi hasn't remained the same since his first season.

[@theoneandonly4252]

Oh... So they have those people in soccer too

[@yarinshaked]

This is officialy confims that ESPN FC crew has nothing to do with football giving their stupid "points". You only need eyes and a common sense to know that this guy is the greatest to ever play.

[@brandongriffin3506]

Yarin Shaked wrong

[@everettvasquez6333]

You must be talking about ronaldo

[@ioanbristow3376]

Steve Nicol hits it on the head, Messi has been at a higher level than anyone else for 10 years, Gabriele Marcotti also gets it right when he says that it's hard to judge someone based on a tournament that comes around every 4 years that consists of just a few games with lots of different factors within that 2 months of the world cup.....

[@abdulbabatunde9151]

Yet the true goats did it.why can't he

[@Rohityadav_17]

Shaka doesn't care if messi is player of tournament of worldcup, the only way to be goat is to win worldcup, even if you score 2 goals in entire wc like pele in wc 1962😂😂😂😂😂 Messi is clear of pele The only one i would except to be on same level or even better than messi is maradona

[@kenkaneki2842]

Not only he won the world cup, he also got the MVP of the tournament as well 🐐

[@hassaanch6082]

Shaka’s logic is irrelevant... Otherwise iniesta should be greatest in history of football. He won the world cup. Whats raul fault that he wasn’t born in brazil? Ucl is much much harder than world cup.

[@ryanverney8900]

1.Messi 2. Pele 3. Ronaldo 4. Maradona 5. Ronaldinho

[@AZMTECH]

Pelé 3 World Cups 1200 goals

[@joaquinperez2205]

I like Messi but I This should be the order 1. Pele 2. Maradona 3. Messi 4. Ronaldinho 5. Ronaldo

[@Hydro2oo9]

1. Messi, 2. Maradona, 3. Cruijff, 4. Pele, 5. Di Stefano..........Ronaldinho was amazing but his career was too short lived.

[@Hydro2oo9]

+Lucas Sales that's 1,200 goals including exhibitions, youth games, friendlies, charity matches, etc, etc, many goals which are not officially recognised and if you used the same logic for every player in history rather than just Pele, then many players would have surpassed 1,000 goals, including Gerd Muller, who would have over 1,400. In terms of official goals(which is what really matters), he scored 757 and in fact has less goals than Romario, who managed to bag 772 official goals during his career.

[@AZMTECH]

3 World Cups. Won his first at 17. Still, a whole lotta goals

[@gregholland4734]

Argentinians only feel that way because Messi went to Barcelona at the beginning. Simple as that.

[@SunnyBeanie]

Finally , someone who understands it . Maradonna went to Argentinian league . Messi actually left it. They don’t deserve him

[@pezaochannel8329]

Pelé’s Brazil won the World Cup three times with all of its players playing in the Brazilian league, so it just goes to show how great and filled of the talent the league actually was

[@onlyweatherlol93]

Such flawed logic. Messi already played very well in 2014 and has carried Argentina to the world cup this time around. Do me a favour please

[@mulukifle8087]

He still didnt win so what is your point

[@onlyweatherlol93]

@@mulukifle8087 Be quiet please. Lazy comment

[@shashank1616]

So according to him the GOAT is Mustafi

[@zone2step17k3]

Do you know why Messi and Ronaldo can never be called the greatest of all time because both play in the same era N they're always back and fourth one year it's Ronaldo's year and the other year it's Messi's year so that's why I can't say neither of them are the greatest of all time

[@PinkWeightLoss1]

both play on the riches clubs in spain and in europe,so there team is always stacked

[@piscesman54]

What a load of crock. Just watch him play. Never mind the stats. If you know anything about football, you know Messi is the GOAT hands down, simply because, nobody can do what he does, game after game after game.

[@aaryankejriwal5634]

Totally agree with Shaka. Messi is not in the level of Pele, Maradona, and Cryuff

[@daniyaliqbal7119]

Messi hattrick vs Ecuador: he’s goat Ronaldo hattrick vs Lithuania/Faroe island: these teams are the worst, what’s the point of scoring against them. These pundits are a joke.

[@patricknelson1471]

watch messi vs iceland they closed his strong foot and he was forced to play short pass or take a quick shot he is indeed limited

[@sumitladge6883]

If 5 guys is behind one player den it will be difficult only n dey know very well tat messi is best

[@matthewbeadle4529]

I'm sorry. Who is the black guy?

[@marcogonzalez9296]

A critic with no credibility

[@michaelmanjarrez9695]

Cali Sharp awww, nice comeback. Another keyboard warrior.

[@matthewbeadle4529]

Jokes on you. I don't have a girlfriend. lol

[@michaelmanjarrez9695]

Cali Sharp Saids the one talking about someone's women, grow up kid. 😂😂

[@michaelmanjarrez9695]

Cali Sharp awww, ok buddy. Goodnight tho

[@alainlucien2408]

Of course yes! He does need to prove himself internationally. Back in 2010,he chocked like a dog with 0 goal,0 assist.Where was he in 2014 against Germany? People are only blaming Higuain for the final's loss,I agree,Higuain was a big part of it. But Messi has also missed a wide open opportunity. To me,Messi has to win at least a copa America to be considered the goat.He's just a club player now. I can careless about how consistent and how well he has played for barcelona in the past nine years.

[@arrancapelos84]

You can`t consider collective titles to evaluate individual skills. We ant`t say Messi is better than Maradona because Messi won 4 Champions and Maradona 0, beacause that depends on the level of the teams the played. You have to evaluate the level of their standard performances, not only in WC

[@Deadpool-cy6yt]

arrancapelos84 Maradona single handedly won Argentina WC in 1986, why can't Messi do the same if he is greater than him. Messi doesn't have 10% of the status that Maradona has in Argentina.

[@alainlucien2408]

You're telling the truth. I agree!

[@arrancapelos84]

Deadpool status? We are talking about skills. And you can see skills in every weekend. I think that 86 Argentina Was better than any Argentina in messi era. Was a more balanced team. Nowdays we have good attackers, but lack of midfielders. In the same way, why Maradona couldn't Win a Champions "single handedly" as he did in WC.

[@Steryon91]

Someone is quite angry :) lol

[@twenty150_1]

Shakar is totally right you guys are just a bunch of ban wagon and I truly like Messi

[@putospic]

Argentina was a minute from going to penalty shootout vs Germany. Messi is a midfielder although attacking style but is their all time leading scorer. He has to be their best passer and goal scorer, Argentinas strikers hasn't done much to help the team get the cup.

[@patricknelson1471]

his barca teammates won a euro and a world cup he won nothing without them messi is good but its really the barcelona help that made him shine

[@imjerry4313]

I'm argentinian First diego Second messi Why? He won the greatest cup for us. If messi win in russia 2018 he will be at the level of maradona. Im telling you the thought of argentinian people.

[@claudemakelele2856]

Messi is overrated. D10 is miles better

[@jrjr.5311]

So we are going to act like the World Cup is no longer the biggest stage simply because Messi has not won it. People are always apologizing for Messi. He doesn't win the World Cup he gets the golden ball, he misses a penalty kick on the world stage, we blame his teammates. Argentina loses that's because the rest of the team sucks. It goes on and on.

[@mathewkurian6305]

So according to Shaka, a player from a poor footballing nation like e.g. Panama, no matter how ridiculously good they may be, will never be considered the GOAT since his country has no/little chance of winning the World Cup?

[@extrmegames004]

I would say, at least performing in the same level as he plays for his club in the wc would be enough, but Argentina is far from a poor footballing nation, they are always one of the favourites, yet they fail to impress most of the time

[@mathewkurian6305]

@@extrmegames004 my main point is that wc should not be the end all be all cause as I said a player from a poor footballing nation will never be considered the GOAT. As for Messi and Argentina, the management and team has been shambolic and if you look at it, the times they got knocked out were against well managed teams that ended up winning the wc.

[@riheli4678]

Messi is the best

[@jacksonkoko413]

Big Messi Fan here, But Shaka makes a valid point.

[@patricknelson1471]

barca players won a world cup without messi messi won nothing without barca

[@Steryon91]

What?

[@scaryvhstapes2245]

Patrick Nelson Maybe because they have world class players with a great manager.

[@wonderboypowers224]

Steryon91 he is basically saying that Messi's success is dependant on Barcelona.

[@pixelnoob360]

another idiot

[@rufaromanjalanz8219]

If Messi won the world cup then the argument becomes very closed. No more Romario, El Phenomenon , Cruyff, or Zidane inclusion. Just Maradona and Pele. Winning the World cup would lock him into having the third best career ever. From there we can then start discussing whether three World cups and 700 goals is better or less than 5 ballon d'ors and a world cup

[@fortminor.]

Rufaro Manjala lol El phenomenon is way more of an complete player than Messi,Pele and Maradona. you forgot that he won 2 world cups

[@sachinprabhu4242]

Let's wait Messi to retire..u write it downMessi will be the greatest

[@Jake-oc5xz]

If Messi has chosen to play for Spain this discussion would not happen. He stayed loyal to Argentina.

[@shaswat-boney6779]

You know Messi made this video baseless on 17th December 2022

[@prozmystery]

I am a Argentina Fan...I consider Messi as best argentina player. Pele is not the G.O.A.T he is the best Country player. Thats it. Messi is the G.O.A.T.

[@abdulkadirisah1207]

Shaka nailed it!

[@mubeenCr9]

So when Argentina wins its all Messi, when Argentina loses its everyone but Messi's fault. Bring the same energy both times. Ronaldo's performance against Sweden was one of the best ive ever seen and then nobody said it was only cause of Ronaldo they won when if you seen it, it literally was but forget that. He doesnt have star players playing in the top leagues (nani and quaresma in what turkish league i think back then). But he still manages to bring the team together and leads them to wins. Messis great too but the thing is he cant lead and he gets disappointed towards his team. Its like if your mom gets mad at you or if shes disappointed at you, whats worse. Messi doesnt have to win the World Cup, he just has to win a Major Trophy internationally to really be considered a GOAT. Dont act like before the Euros that wasnt everyones argument. "Whoever wins the most International major trophy will be considered the goat". As soon as CR7 wins one, that aspect goes down the drain....smh. Messi will always be goat to me but he needs to learn how to lead, that is the way Argentina will go far.

[@PinkWeightLoss1]

eactly,all these excuses is being made for the goat lol,when brazilian ronaldo lost the final to france,everyone was saying that to be considered the next pele or to be on pele level,he has to win the world cup with brazil,no one cared about how many world football awards he won or how he was transforming the game,he had to win the ultimate price which was the wc.imagine,r9 played in two copa americas and won them both,he never lost a final except france 1998.every final he went in,he dominated and his team won.the bigger the moment is the time r9 shined.so how some ppl gonna compare messi to pele when he hasn't reach r9 level in international football

[@radiologicphysicist1083]

Lol Sweeden

[@arrancapelos84]

Compare Messi to CR7 is something that Nike needs, but it is insulting to Messi's talent and also insulting to all those great players like Zidane, Ronaldo Nazario, Ronhaldinho, far better than CR7, with much more quality in almost every aspect of the game. So, it is insulting to the game.

[@Blaydoner]

No one's even talking about CR7 tho 😂 you're bringing a great goalscorer (one of the best goalscorers ever i must add) into a discussion about the greatest PLAYER, Messi is a great goalscorer, great player and great playmaker all in one, he's the best there's ever been no one can match Messi, not even my idol Maradona so there's no way CR7 could match him when players like Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Zidane, Ronaldo9, Romario, Puskas and so on higher in the rankings. In all honesty the only people who say CR is the best ever are his fans which says it all.

[@sportentertainment9607]

mubeenCr9 why are you even comparing Messi to Cr7 lol . Messi is god of football when Ronaldo is obviously a goal scorer and nothing more . The argument is whether Messi is the best of all time beside Maradona and Pele and no one said that Ronaldo is in the argument lol . Cr7 is just a ball waiter who waits the ball next to the keeper to tap it in .

[@alexgrng_1986]

He needs to win at least something outside Barcelona

[@jorgeherrera1074]

The difference between other sports is that in Football it only comes once every 4 years. That means most prodigies will play 4 World Cups if they’re lucky. Most players will be lucky to even just play a single World Cup.

[@josephphilip959]

Shaka hislop shut up. Messi doesn’t need to win the World Cup to became the best player of all time. It is a team play but the best player award is an individual honour, not a team play.

[@havertzthefuturegoat2518]

this a team game

[@EyeLoveTheStars]

That white guy said "Messi's supporting cast is wayyy better than what Pele and Maradona have had." Uh, that just makes Shaka's point. Messi has had a great supporting cast and still can't win a World Cup. Meanwhile, Pele and Maradona have accomplished WAY MORE with LESS on the World Stage. Pele won 3 World Cups.

[@PinkWeightLoss1]

exactly

[@nicksketch7122]

To be fair, PELÉ was injured for most of 1962'. Plus, he played with teams that were stacked with talent in '58 & '70.

[@ozzyfifa6053]

This is the equivalent of LeBron scoring 50 against Brooklyn

[@mashwork6615]

Jim lol stfu clown

[@jorsam8846]

Right now the argument for the best is between Maradona, pele and cr7, cause they won with multiple teams. Base on what messi won, than cr7 would be the GOAT.

[@unitedbyfootball7495]

You remove messi and Argentina wouldn't even get into the world cup. Messi creates chances. Period.

[@samikatta6268]

Gab is woke