Does the Evidence Now Support Effective Reps? Ft. Greg Nuckols | Ep. 58

[@SchmittsPeter]

Having Greg on a podcast statistically significantly increases the duration of said podcast. The results for views remain to be determined. I, however, already look forward to the rest of this :-D .

[@ColeDano]

I've had to listen to this in small bites, but my god was it worth while. This was the conversation on hypertrophy that needed to happen right now.

[@Ask-Ali]

Been waiting for this 🙌🏻 Edit: HOLY SHIT 4 hours?!?!

[@timk8258]

My exact reactions 😂

[@joeherrera63]

That's precisely what I said aloud to my cats.

[@ImpulseFortune]

The last three minutes are totally worth it, though.

[@watsonkushmaster3067]

Lets goooo

[@utubebrowseupload]

This is one of the best podcasts on hypertrophy programming ive heard ever. Greg is such a fresh breath of air with his nuances, out of the box thinking!

[@mateo_cobos]

Great episode guys!

[@MohamedNaas2005]

Paul Carter ain't gonna like this but , I will

[@Coachahmadreza]

No one care about him in the evidence based world

[@elbuenfercho4286]

Paul Carter would learn a thing or two if he wasn’t such an arrogant asshole.

[@utubebrowseupload]

yeah, he doesnt like anyone that challenges or doesnt agree with any of his views and then he blocks them so we cant even learn eachothers POV either so let him and chris stay in their echochamber and let the adults have fruitful discussions where we can keep our own egos and emotional ties out of the conversation and we can all evolve and grow

[@apeinto5637]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🎵 *Introduction to the podcast episode featuring Greg Nuckols and discussing a meta-regression on proximity failure in strength and hypertrophy outcomes.* 03:30 📚 *The hosts mention their updated RPE guide, which includes theoretical rationale for proximity failure in strength training.* 05:18 📈 *Overview of the meta-regression method used to analyze the relationship between proximity to failure and outcomes in strength and hypertrophy.* 10:45 💪 *Findings reveal that proximity to failure doesn't significantly impact strength gains, but it does influence hypertrophy positively.* 17:23 📉 *Misinterpretations include the belief that the curve supports the "effective reps" model and misconceptions about volume and load.* 23:20 🤔 *Greg Nuckols shares his frustration with misinterpretations and discussions surrounding the initial meta-regression results.* 23:45 📊 *The initial meta-regression model showed a linear-log curve, indicating a sharp decrease in hypertrophy stimulus from zero to approximately two or three reps from failure, followed by a less marked decrease as you go further from failure.* 24:57 📈 *While the hard version of the effective reps model suggests that only the last few reps before failure stimulate hypertrophy, the data showed positive hypertrophy even with six to eight reps in reserve, challenging this concept.* 28:35 🤨 *The interpretation of the meta-regression results was criticized for using a "Mot and Bailey" argument, where proponents of the hard effective reps model switched to the soft version when the data didn't fully support the hard version.* 36:15 💡 *The comparison between the meta-analysis results presented by Greg Nuckols and Martin Refalo's figure showed seemingly opposite findings, but they used different methods and data types.* 40:19 📈 *People often seek a single metric to predict hypertrophy outcomes, leading to the popularity of models like the effective reps model, but this desire for certainty may not fully capture the complexity of muscle growth.* 48:48 🤔 *Greg Nuckols discusses skepticism about the "hard effective reps" model, emphasizing the need for humility in approaching complex scientific topics.* 54:18 🧬 *Greg and Josh discuss the challenge of studying muscle physiology due to the dynamic and complex nature of the human body.* 01:00:12 🤯 *The complexity of muscle physiology and fiber typing is explored, with recognition that even fundamental concepts are not fully understood.* 01:06:10 💡 *Greg points out the popularity of simplistic models in fitness and nutrition due to their appeal and ease of understanding, even if they don't fully represent the complex reality.* 01:11:26 🧠 *Greg outlines the underlying premises of the "hard effective reps" model, including motor unit recruitment, contraction velocity, and dosage for hypertrophy.* 01:13:16 🧬 *Tension is considered necessary but not sufficient for hypertrophy. It initiates a complex signaling cascade involving mechanosensitive structures and various proteins, eventually leading to muscle protein synthesis and growth.* 01:19:15 🤔 *Hypertrophy isn't a simple A-to-B process. It involves numerous steps, including mechanosensitive structures sensing tension, signaling cascades, gene expression, and protein synthesis.* 01:31:13 ⚖️ *Tension is necessary for hypertrophy but not sufficient. Other factors like nutrition, steroids, and muscle memory play essential roles in influencing the hypertrophy process, modulating various steps within the signaling cascade.* 01:40:44 🚴 *Capillary density can also be influenced by activities like cycling, impacting hypertrophy even without affecting fiber tension directly.* 01:42:10 💊 *Inflammatory status, influenced by anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), can affect hypertrophy outcomes differently based on age and health status.* 01:44:13 🧪 *There are numerous open research questions about the mechanisms of hypertrophy, indicating the complexity of the process.* 01:56:13 🎯 *Optimizing solely for tension as the input to hypertrophy can be misleading, as there are multiple factors influencing muscle growth.* 02:04:08 💡 *Muscle damage's role in hypertrophy is not definitively ruled out, and it may have a place in the muscle growth process.* 02:06:13 💡 *The extent of muscle damage's impact on hypertrophy might be context-dependent, and it could play a role, especially in untrained lifters.* 02:09:08 💡 *Bioenergetic factors and metabolic stress may be important in limiting muscle growth, especially as individuals approach their hypertrophic limits.* 02:19:31 💡 *The relationship between training volume, rest intervals, and hypertrophy is complex, with various factors, including metabolic stress and tension, possibly influencing outcomes.* 02:26:02 💡 *Blood Flow Restriction Training (BFR) and traditional training can be similarly effective for hypertrophy, suggesting that proximity to failure and metabolic stress may not be the sole drivers of muscle growth in some cases.* 02:28:49 🏋️ *The addition of metabolic stress sets (20% of 1RM) alongside traditional training may improve hypertrophy, challenging the concept of tension being the sole driver of muscle growth.* 02:31:18 🩸 *Studies suggest that factors like metabolic stress, adaptation, and individual variations can influence hypertrophy responses, making it challenging to provide definitive training recommendations.* 02:43:54 🔄 *Novelty in training methods can potentially reignite muscle growth and productivity, indicating that varying training stimuli over time might be beneficial.* 02:50:03 🏋️ *Logistical considerations and participant engagement may also contribute to the popularity of periodized training approaches, even when scientific evidence on their superiority is limited.* 02:51:54 💪 *The duration of muscle growth differs by muscle group, but some research suggests muscle growth may plateau after about 12 weeks of consistent training.* 02:54:11 🧪 *Skeletal muscle sensitization and incorporating volume progression or cycling in training could potentially provide a novelty effect, allowing for continued gains.* 02:55:03 🔍 *Exploring the relationship between volume progression, fatigue, and muscle growth is an area of interest and could contribute to understanding training effectiveness.* 03:00:00 💡 *The concept of muscle fiber tension as training approaches failure may not necessarily mean maximal tension for all fibers, especially with lighter loads.* 03:06:19 🤔 *The debate revolves around whether the highest threshold motor units achieve maximal tension as training approaches failure, which may depend on factors like load and fatigue.* 03:12:57 🧬 *Studies suggest that with lower contraction intensities, the highest threshold motor units may not reach maximal firing rates or tension levels compared to higher contraction intensities.* 03:15:28 📊 *The study discussed examined eccentric, concentric, and isometric knee extension reps, observing larger decrements in force and EMG following isometric reps, but methodological issues and data quality raise doubts about the results.* 03:19:56 📚 *Recent studies, like Royer's 2021 paper, found similar decrements in force and voluntary activation across eccentric, concentric, and isometric contractions, suggesting central fatigue is likely similar in all three.* 03:20:35 📑 *A 2006 paper by Babal hinted that fatigue mechanisms might differ between isometric and concentric contractions, possibly more central fatigue in isometrics and more peripheral in concentrics, but this doesn't negate the effective reps concept.* 03:25:40 🏋️‍♂️ *The discussion considers whether the proximity of failure during dynamic contractions may recruit high-threshold motor units earlier, but it doesn't necessarily imply these units reach maximum tension or directly support the effective reps concept.* 03:37:19 💪 *The argument questions if maximal fiber tension is required for hypertrophy, as mechanosensors may respond to submaximal tension, and suggests other biological factors could contribute to muscle growth.* 03:39:04 🚶‍♂️ *Type I fiber hypertrophy in response to resistance training raises questions about the necessity of maximal tension for growth in low-threshold motor units.* 03:40:41 📊 *Applying counterfactuals and testing them on evidence is a good practice when evaluating training models.* 03:42:18 🏋️‍♀️ *Going to failure in a multi-joint exercise can maximize the stimulus, especially when limited to a few sets.* 03:45:04 🔄 *Balancing stimulus proximity to failure with session quality is key in designing an effective training program.* 03:46:00 💪 *Prioritizing either training volume or proximity to failure depends on individual response, with some favoring high volume and others closer to failure.* 03:52:07 🏃 *Improving tolerance to training close to failure depends on individual factors, like experience, conditioning, or joint health.* Made with HARPA AI

[@Yupppi]

What the heck guys, I wanted to hear where Greg was going with his yoghurt = cities narrative. You can't just cut the man off.

[@JohnProph]

wait, how many sets do I do to get big arms?? (j/k hehe)

[@StephenMarkTurner]

So, once we unify physics, we will be well on our way to knowing how many bicep curls to do, cool!

[@MarcRitzMD]

Motte and Bailey were flipped. Bailey is the less defensible, attractive, outer area. Motte is the defensive refuge.

[@greglnuckols]

FUCK. Thanks for the correction

[@cheeks7050]

Can someone please sum the information in this podcast up in 1 sentence?

[@archmaesterofpullups]

There isn't enough quality information to support the effective reps model because of large amounts of individual variance and poor study design, however training to failure can be optimal in certain circumstances because of logistical considerations.

[@cheeks7050]

You are a certified legend. Thanks.@@archmaesterofpullups

[@shawnpatten6515]

Just train hard and we’re all going to make it brah.

[@94EyeEagle]

all these complexities are hurting my tiny brains. And I like it.