Does the Sunna RULE OVER the Quran!?: Reaching a More BALANCED View on Hadith

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[@kamalbhadersein7377]

I would like to state something. I am a revert to Islam. When i researched Islam, i read the Quran. Only. That was it for me. It is a fascinating, one of a kind, multi layered recitation of the divine word. I read nothing of hadeeth, or sunnah or any of these concepts. The Quran made me accept Islam. What im trying to say is that alot of reverts come to Islam with a fresh, constructive mind. I(we) dont need these other books of hadith, and sects, and man made rulings of everything under the sun. Islam is a way of life, a message of becoming better humans, and get closer to God. NOT a rule by rule religion. I think that born muslims are force fed and indoctrinated into this hadith culture, and thats fine. Thats their choice. What im saying is that if u claim that the Quran is the word of Allah, then follow that. Alone.

[@QuranicIslam]

👍

[@Manmoon399_5]

I'm muslim by birth and totally agree with you

[@Dead_or_Wild]

Same experience here. Accepted Allah, and the prophet ( Upon him be peace) and then got inundated with all this other stuff. Frankly, the Hadith strikes me as a struggle of ethnic middle easterners trying to force their religion into a culture that pre-existed. Sorry. I'll take the one true God and his book. Trying to put anything else onto that level is Shirk.

[@kamalbhadersein7377]

@@Dead_or_Wild i dont get what is so complicated really. Complete, full of detail. For our DEEN. it has everything we need to be better muslims. The hadith is littered with fantastical tales and alot of utter rubbish, which only confuse people. NONE of which is important to our Deen.

[@seemiyajasmine141]

​@@kamalbhadersein7377If you think about it, the only thing the non muslims and anti islamists use in debates are these hadiths. They have nothing other than hadiths. Debating with Quran would make them silent. They know it too

[@Mike-LitorisSoBig]

If i had found hadith before the Qur'an, I would have never accepted Islam.

[@MohamedShou]

Lol wait so you are a quranist?

[@Mike-LitorisSoBig]

@@MohamedShou I'm a muslim, not a secterian . "Lol" 🤦‍♂️

[@Mike-LitorisSoBig]

@@MohamedShou lol, wait so you think Muhammad was a crazy, barbaric, illiterate pedo terrorist?

[@hyrunnisa997]

@@Mike-LitorisSoBig Same!!! I would have never ever converted if I didn’t find a community of Quran centric muslims.

[@damansandy3065]

@@hyrunnisa997 How could you say that, is it not Allah that willed so that you would convert and guides you? Why do you feel like you're only dependent on some sort of limited and fallible communities, and because of them is the reason now you're a submitter to the Lord of the heaven and the earth. who's the sectarian?

[@negeto2460]

Salaam all, The Qur'an describes itself as the following: - Detailed by KNOWLEDGE (fassalnahu 'Ala ilmin) {7:52} - Detailed explanation for ALL THINGS (watafseela kulli shay-in) {12:111} - Clarification of ALL THINGS (tibyanan likulli shay-in) {16:89} - The BEST EXPLANATION (ahsana tafseera) {25:33} - The BEST HADEETH (ahsanal-hadeeth) {39:23} And the Qur'an makes it abundantly clear that ANY hadeeth that is in conflict or contradicts it, must be discarded since it says: "" These are the verses of Allāh which We recite to you in truth. Then in what STATEMENT (hadeeth) after Allāh and His verses will they believe?"" {45:6} I don't think any honest and open-minded Muslim would say that these hadeeths that are attributed to the prophet are 'verbatim' or his 'literal' words - except the fanatical salafis / wahabis / sufis! Even the Hadith scholars (ibn hajar, nawawi, etc) admit that most (like 99%) of these hadiths are 'Zann' - meaning speculative / assumptions and NOT certainty! But even saying so, they still BLINDLY accept and follow these traditions! This is absurd indeed and the Qur'an warns us that 'Zann' (speculation/assumptions) are no substitue for truth (verse 10:36). Why would anyone in their rite mind accept something OTHER THAN THE QUR'AN as a source of revelation, guidance, authority, and legislation?? The hadith corpus (bukhari, abu dawud, etc) should only be taken as HISTORICAL information at best - nothing more! Even history is filled with lies so what then can we rely on for our guidance & salvation? Answer: The Qur'an! End of story

[@jidrit999]

without hadees u r dead

[@Aesieda]

​@@jidrit999Lol whatever you say bud.

[@SI00000]

@@jidrit999 Of course you would say that. The Quran critics love that most Muslims hold the many thousands of questionable hadith to the same standard as the Quran. Without those hadith they would not have anything by which to attack Islam. Think about it. The Quran says that Muhammad is merely a warner and not a judge over the people while hadith says, fight the infidel until they say "There is no god but Allah". The Quran guarantees freedom of thought and choice while the hadith threatens death by the sword for all who resist.

[@jidrit999]

@@SI00000 all is nonsense. All beliefs are stupid

[@infinitebeast5517]

4:80 "Whoever obeys the Messenger has truly obeyed Allah. But whoever turns away, then ˹know that˺ We have not sent you ˹O Prophet˺ as a keeper over them." So if the prophet tells us something we follow it. The hadith is the saved sayings of the prophet pbuh. Just like the Quran is the preserved word of God.

[@OmarRamahi2019]

Are Muslims asked to follow “Islamic Tradition “ or Islam???

[@BaniAadama]

Most intelligent question on here! Thank You!

[@negeto2460]

Exactly brother Omar! Does the Qur'an support the idea of following 'traditions' or 'practices' of the people? Or does it strictly command us to follow that which was REVEALED?? The Qur'an infact looks down upon the 'Sunnah' of former peoples and stresses the fact that the majority of people are disbelievers!

[@OmarRamahi2019]

@@negeto2460 I believe Allah answers this important question in 2:170 وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمُ اتَّبِعُوا مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ قَالُوا بَلْ نَتَّبِعُ مَا أَلْفَيْنَا عَلَيْهِ آبَاءَنَا ۗ أَوَلَوْ كَانَ آبَاؤُهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ and here is my minimalistic translation: "and when they were addressed or requested to follow what Allah has revealed, they would answer back that we will only follow what we have found our forefathers practicing. But what if their forefathers were not able to comprehend things and were misguided."

[@negeto2460]

​@@OmarRamahi2019 what more needs to be said?

[@senan13]

Can you please do an interview with Khaled Abou El Fadl on this topic?

[@IMHS21]

What does 'accept' a hadeeth even mean? accept that it is somehow divinely influenced? Or that it contains religious wisdom in line with the Quran which you accept? Or accepting that it is a saying of the prophet and is therefore to be followed in some way.. You could read your answer between the lines or more explicit even, but its a valid point that everyone should ponder over.

[@AboeAmir]

It only means that the chain of transmitters is authentic according to their standards.

[@frostpitt]

Around 1400 years. That's how much time has passed since Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) passed away. More than twice the time that had passed since the time of Isa (A.S) when the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) was alive. We still debate about what actually happened historically about events that happened just a few years ago. People are debating how C0v1d began now, others are debating how the Ukraine - Russia conflict began. There are still vastly different opinions on what transpired, and how, during WW1 and WW2. After all this, many Muslims consider that their scholars and Hadith transmitters of the past are some special humans who recorded everything better than any other humans on Earth? Yes, I believe there is some truth in the recorded Hadith and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) but the Quran is quite clear and if we believe it to be the word of God, then it should sit in judgement of the Hadith and be our primary source of Guidance. Appreciate your work! Always nice to see scholars out there who prioritize the Quran over the Hadith and Sunnah😀

[@kamalbhadersein7377]

Lol i also find that amusing. That these scholars and transmitters were these super truthful, no mistake making super humans 🤣. I mean honestly, what sort of dogmatic thinking is that? 😢

[@bosnevi2153]

Mufti Abu Layth has the same or at least a similar position. I think that the concept of distinction between Sunnah and Hadith is very convincing and ive allways felt that hadith absolutism has a very talmudic nature

[@ShafqatjahanTabassum]

Abu layth us a liar

[@shaheedabdulazeez7366]

What lie has he told?

[@adnankhursheed]

Hadiths have to be seen within the framework of the Quran and not vice versa. Jazakallah khair.

[@unhingedconnoisseur164]

literally as they have been one of the requirements of hadith acceptance in hadith criticism is that it doesnt contradict the Qur'an

[@Biekoe]

@@unhingedconnoisseur164 but you do have sahih hadiths that contradict the quran. so why have they been graded saheeh?

[@unhingedconnoisseur164]

@@Biekoe the thing that i appreciate about your reply is the abundance of examples for me to be able to look at and consider

[@Biekoe]

@@unhingedconnoisseur164 God is the Only Judge The Quran says: As early as the very first Sura of the Quran (The Key/Opener) we read of one of God's exclusive rights. God declares that He is the Sole Judge on the Day of Judgement and that no one will have any say on that Day: Possessor of the Day of the Religion. 1:4 The sovereignty on that Day belongs to God alone. 22:56 It is the Day when no self possesses any power to help any other self, and all matters on that Day will be decided by God alone. 82:19 If only the transgressors would witness the punishment (on the Day of Judgement) they would realise that all power belongs to God and that God's punishment is severe. 2:165 Who forgives the sins except God? 3:135 Hadith attributed to the Prophet: In the following hadith, not only do we read that the angels exercise one of God's exclusive rights (Judgement), and that they take charge of judging a man after his death, but that the angels quarrel between themselves as to his fate! Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 676: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: "The Prophet said, "Amongst the men of Bani Israel there was a man who had murdered ninety-nine persons. Then he set out asking (whether his repentance could be accepted or not). He came upon a monk and asked him if his repentance could be accepted. The monk replied in the negative and so the man killed him. He kept on asking till a man advised to go to such and such village. (So he left for it) but death overtook him on the way. While dying, he turned his chest towards that village (where he had hoped his repentance would be accepted), and so the angels of mercy and the angels of punishment quarrelled amongst themselves regarding him. Allah ordered the village (towards which he was going) to come closer to him, and ordered the village (whence he had come), to go far away, and then He ordered the angels to measure the distances between his body and the two villages. So he was found to be one span closer to the village (he was going to). So he was forgiven." First, this hadith contradicts the fact that God is the only Judge. In this hadith, the angels judge this man and quarrel amongst themselves while doing so! The hadith ends by saying that the fate of the man was eventually decided by means of the most ridiculous method; the distance of his dead body in relation to two villages! How can the location of a person's body at death be the decider of his fate? The Quran states repeatedly that belief in God and leading a righteous life are the deciding issues for the judgement of any man on Judgement Day, and not the distance of his dead body in relation to two villages! As for the suggestion that God commanded one village to move closer to the dead man, this constitutes a grave insult to God Almighty and how God's Judgement is decreed. In addition, the suggestion that there are some angels of mercy and others of punishment raises a whole set of violations to Quranic truth. Suffice to say that mercy is an attribute belonging to God and not to the angels who are servants executing the will of God. God is the only Law Giver The Quran says: God is the only Law Giver: Shall I seek other than God as a law maker? 6:114 The Quran also asserts that the only duty of any messenger is to deliver God's message: The soul duty of the messenger is the delivery (of the message). 5:99 In confirmation of this clear message, we read in the Quran about one occasion when the Prophet prohibited something that God has made lawful, God reprimanded him for doing so: O you Prophet, why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? 66:1 Hadith attributed to the Prophet: In spite of the Quranic assurances that God is the only law Giver, we find many hadith which claim that the Prophet prohibited one item or another such as gold and silk for men, which were never prohibited by God. In both Bukhari and Muslim we read that the Prophet is claimed to have prohibited silk. Muslim, Book 37 (Clothes and adornments), Hadith 25 "Do not wear silk, for those who wear it in this life shall not wear it in the Hereafter" Amazingly enough, in another hadith we find a total contradiction to the hadith of prohibiting silk: "The halal is that which Allah has made lawful in His Book and haram is that which He has forbidden, and that concerning which He is silent He has permitted as a favour to you" Reported in Al-Hakim, classified as sahih (sound), and quoted by al-Bazzar, (Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah). (The Lawful and Prohibited in Islam (arb: Al halal wal haram fil Islam) by. Yusuf Al Qaradawi). If we follow the logic of the above hadith we should recognise that since silk is not prohibited in the Quran, then it is lawful for men to wear; so why is the Prophet prohibiting men from wearing it? The answer is simple; the Prophet never prohibited silk (nor anything not prohibited by God). The only time that the Prophet made an error and prohibited something which was not prohibited by God he was reprimanded by God for doing so (see 66:1).

[@Biekoe]

@@unhingedconnoisseur164 Times of Prayer The Quran says: God asserts in the Quran that the prescribed Salat must be observed at specific times only: The Salat is decreed for the believers for 'kitabban mawqutan'. 4:103 The words "kitabban mawqutan" mean that the Salat has been given specific times in the 'kitab' (the Book/Quran). Hadith attributed to the Prophet: In spite of this clear law of God, we read numerous hadith that makes it permissible for believers to observe the Salat after its prescribed time has passed. This is what is called (Salat Qada). As a result of this un-Quranic concession, the devil has tricked millions to ignore 4:103 altogether and unlawfully observe all their missed prayers collectively at night. Then they would not have to leave any work or leisure to commemorate God! By doing so, they miss the prime issue related to observing Salat at specific times; the reader is invited to read the following Quranic words: Men who are not distracted by trade nor sale from commemorating God and from observing the Salat and giving the Zakat. They fear a Day when the hearts and sights will be in turmoil. 24:37 These words outline clearly why we must observe the Salat at specific times and not let any business, trade, or leisure distract us from doing so. If we were to ignore the specific times set by God, due to being busy at work or leisure, then we would be totally ignoring the command in 24:37 Nevertheless, there will always be a corrupt hadith that will totally violate a specific Quranic command. With regards to the command in 4:103, we find a number of hadith that falsely say that the Prophet observed prayers outside their prescribed times. Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 20, Number 212: Narrated Anas bin Malik: "Whenever the Prophet started a journey before noon, he used to delay the Zuhr prayer till the time of 'Asr and then offer them together; and if the sun declined (at noon) he used to offer the Zuhr prayer and then ride (for the journey)" Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 733: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: "The Prophet offered the Maghrib and 'Isha' prayers together at Jam' (i.e. Al-Muzdalifa) with a separate Iqama for each of them and did not offer any optional prayer in between them or after each of them" Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 734: Narrated Abu Aiyub Al-Ansari: "Allah's Apostle offered the Maghrib and 'Isha' prayers together at Al-Muzdalifa" Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 742: Narrated Abdullah: "I never saw the Prophet offering any prayer not at its stated time except two; he prayed the Maghrib and the 'Isha' together and he offered the morning prayer before its usual time" Is it possible that the Prophet who was an obedient servant of God disregarded the law of God in 4:103 and observed prayers outside their times? Contact Prayers (Salat) Shortening the Prayers The Quran says: If you travel the land you commit no error by shortening your Salat if you fear that the disbelievers may harm you. Surely, the disbelievers are your clear enemy. 4:101 It is clear from this verse that the only concession granted by God for the believers to shorten their Salat is during war when they fear for their lives. In the verse that follows (4:102), God outlines very careful instructions as to how the believers should pray in groups, with others standing guard. In all the Quran there are no concessions to shorten the Salat for any other reason other than danger at times of war. Hadith attributed to the Prophet: Muslims today shorten their prayers whenever they travel, even if travelling in the comfort of air-conditioned trains or planes! This they do because they have disregarded God's Law of the Quran and believed corrupt 'hadith' that claim that the Prophet shortened his prayers whenever he travelled! Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 20, Number 186: Narrated Ibn Abbas: "The Prophet once stayed for nineteen days and prayed shortened prayers. So when we travelled (and stayed) for nineteen days, we used to shorten the prayer but if we travelled (and stayed) for a longer period we used to offer the full prayer" Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 773: Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The Prophet offered four Rakat of Zuhr prayer at Medina and two Rakat of 'Asr prayer at Dhul-Hulaifa. Narrated Aiyub: "A man said: Anas said, "Then he (the Prophet) passed the night there till dawn and then he offered the morning (Fajr) prayer" Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 20, Number 187: Narrated Yahya bin Ishaq: "I heard Anas saying, "We travelled with the Prophet from Medina to Mecca and offered two Rakat (for every prayer) till we returned to Medina." I said, "Did you stay for a while in Mecca?" He replied, "We stayed in Mecca for ten days" Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 20, Number 188: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: "I offered the prayer with the Prophet, Abu Bakr and Umar at Mina and it was of two Rakat. Uthman in the early days of his caliphate did the same, but later on he started praying the full prayer" Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 20, Number 189: It is totally absurd to read in the hadith that the shortening of the Salat took place during Hajj, when all those at Hajj have all day long to do nothing except worship God, yet they still manage to find an excuse to shorten their Salat! The ironic thing is that after they shorten the Salat that is decreed by God, they have nothing to do, so they start to observe additional Salat which they call 'Salat Sunna' and which were never authorised by God in the Quran! In the following hadith we read that the Prophet shortened his afternoon Salat (Asr) even before he started his Hajj: Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 773: Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The Prophet offered four Rakat of Zuhr (Midday) prayer at Medina and two Rakat of 'Asr (Afternoon) prayer at Dhul-Hulaifa. Narrated Aiyub: "A man said: Anas said, "Then he (the Prophet) passed the night there till dawn and then he offered the morning (Fajr) prayer, and mounted his Mount and when it arrived at Al-Baida' he assumed Ihram for both 'Umra and Hajj"

[@quran_wrh]

Peace, I respect your work and your position on this topic. I just want to say that I think if believers collectively put their energy into studying and understanding and uncovering more of the Koran, we could actually come closer to the historical and theological details which elude us, God willing. - And the Messenger will say: “O my Lord: my people took this Qur’an as a thing abandoned.” (Chapter/verse 25/30; Sam Gerrans translation)

[@negeto2460]

Exactly rite my brother! Ask yourself why the Messenger will say this on yawmal-qiyamah?? It's simple: Muslims have raised their traditions (hadith, etc) above the Book of Allah - just like how the Jews have raised their traditions (talmud, etc) above the Torah. Such a shame 😔

[@negeto2460]

Excellent video by brother Javad. Let the Traditional Muslim bring their evidence to prove their false doctrines regarding the 2 so-called Wahi's: 1 - Wahi matlu - recited revelation (i.e. Qur'an) 2 - Wahi ghayri matlu - unrecited revelation (i.e. hadeeth/sunnah) Let them produce ONE verse from the Quran to prove this! The Qur'an tells us AGAIN and AGAIN that Allah SENT DOWN (anzala, nazzala, unzila, etc) the Qur'an and He also says that it was INSPIRED (awhayna, awha, yooha, etc) to prophet Muhammad (a.s). The Qur'an also goes further to describe how the Torah / Zaboor / Injeel were also SENT DOWN and REVEALED to Messengers before. How come there is NOT a single verse describing the so-called 'Sunnah' of Muhammad in the same manner?? You would expect at least one verse that says something like: "And We sent down the Sunnah" or "We inspired the Sunnah" - but no such luck! Therefore, their false doctrine of a dual revelation has no legs to stand on! Peace

[@taalibtaalib1793]

Thank you Dr Hashmi. You've helped my understanding immensely, particularly your explanation on the primacy of the Quran, the place of the living tradition, and the important distinction between hadith and sunna. Well done for cramming that all in to 30 minutes! May Allah strengthen and preserve your efforts!

[@user-rp7vw6nd9y]

thanks a lot for this one 👍🏼

[@hyrunnisa997]

I am so glad you gave an explanation of all the different positions to take on hadith. I definitely like your approach and its so refreshing and so uplifting to hear. I used to be so passionate about learning these things and learning about the historical context, different scholarly opinions and traditions but I had given up on learning any thing related islamic history a while ago because the current traditionalist stance on hadith is hard to stomach. its hard to engage in a community or a body of literature when i don’t agree with a defining principle. it didn’t help that people say you can question things but only if eventually you come to the same conclusion and practice islam in “their way”. which to them is the “only” way. but the content you publish gives me hope and makes me think i should get back to learning and reading. edit: to clarify I consider myself a “quranist” but I don’t like that term. I am just a muslim who follows the quran. I think hadith can be good for historical purposes. there are some things that have lots of wisdom and knowledge but its not the word of God and I don’t think it should have any precedence in how we practice islam at all.

[@intazario]

Subscribed and downloaded. Nice video. Everything I had an opinion about but couldn't articulate.

[@frostpitt]

Allah knows best, so if I am wrong, I pray that He forgives me, but I don't see myself being questioned on why I did not know so and so hadith and this other hadith and that one and this other one etc etc on the Day of Judgement.

[@kyzersmansion2487]

Amazing video!!

[@benjamingraden9026]

In the beginning I didn’t feel good about where this was going bc I do not think Hadith should be held as equal to or greater than Quran but as it developed I saw where you we’re going with it and in the end you pretty much described my belief as your own. Great video. Not just bc it mirrors my belief but this is truth and it just feels right. Thank you

[@inhumanhyena]

Good reflections here. Your position seems reasonable enough to me. I'm also a Quran-centric Muslim though, with a rationalist and mystical/philosophical disposition, so perhaps it's my bias, but It's hard for me to imagine that 'aql' was not placed in us for the very purpose of critical thinking, and it's hard to understand why *any believer would accept a tradition that contradicts the Quran and reason. This classical notion of "sunnah" you mentioned is definitely something I'd like to learn more about.

[@negeto2460]

Just like to add my 2 cents worth regarding 'Mutawatir' hadeeth. They say there are maybe beween 200 - 400 Mutawatir hadeeths which Muhadditheen consider to be 'Qati' - certain knowledge. However, if you ask them what EXACTLY constitutes Mutawatir (number of narrators of the report), they have NO IDEA!! Is it 10? 20? 50? Who knows?? Therefore, they pick and choose what they consider to be mass transmitted! Furthermore, you have hadith scholars such as ibn Hazm and ibn Hibban (well known muhadditheen) who say: there is NO SUCH thing as Mutawatir! Let that sink in...

[@MohamedShou]

Do you have reference to this?

[@AishaYMusa]

Very well done and thoughtful approach. I think a useful way of looking at the interaction between text and interpreter, using Fish's view, in a religious text is to consider how translator's of the Quran use parenthetic insertions. The text remains, but differences in understanding and interpretation are evident in the parentheses. The words in parentheses do not appear in the source text; rather, it is an implicature, an unspoken meaning that the interpreter infers based on their assumptions.

[@obaidulhaque7687]

Looking forward

[@celestialknight2339]

Hi Dr. Hashmi! I just saw that you’re set to debate Daniel H. on the MDD platform later in June, and was absolutely STOKED (for a lack of better words) to see that someone of your worldview & caliber will represent our views on a larger platform. Wishing you the best of luck, brother! And please be prepared to rebut any accusations against you as a “liberal Muslim influenced by modern liberal values” and other such “poisoning-the-well” tactics that I’m almost certain will come up (as you probably can guess). Conversely, however, I think it’s also good to repeatedly emphasize that you are on a middle path-neither agreeing with everything progressive, nor everything traditional; but simply abiding by the Qur’an, as a true Muslim should. This is an important point to stress, especially with the presuppositions many people (especially traditional Muslim viewers) will likely have about you, before the debate even begins. But I trust that your intellect, facts, and well-mannered behavior will win you the debate 👍🏼 And above all, educating people of the truth surrounding this mightily misunderstood yet beautiful religion/way of life of Islam. God bless, and Salam my brother. Looking forward to it.

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Thank you for your kind words and advice!

[@darkchocolatewalnut]

What happened to your other video where you interviewed Jonathan Brown?

[@DudeDesi07]

Assalamu Alaikum, have you ever watched the post-debate commentary Daniel with with Hajji after your first debate with him?In the video Hajji does basically ask how would some one like you would know which hadiths to use and accept verses not? Hajji basically is asking what is your usul when it comes to what is acceptable to use verses what is not when it comes ot hadiths?

[@perfectdawah4535]

I have the same beliefs as you when it comes to Hadith. I have had debates with Quranists and I reject fabricated Hadithes by Bukhari and Muslim and others.

[@Introvertical873]

I feel like as long as hadiths go with a quranic guideline. Then it should be OK to take things here and there. But the issue is how some hadiths try to act as a Extra Content to the Quran. As if the quran wasn't enough. Hadiths bring ideas and characters that aren't at all mentioned in the quran. Like the Dajjal. I mean surely dajjal should have been mentioned in the quran right? Considering he seems like a important enemy to islam.

[@Introvertical873]

@@perfectdawah4535 So you're saying that he's some sort of myth ? Or a story that Muslim took and thought was legit.

[@perfectdawah4535]

@determined5138 no it is from prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H, but it is metaphor. It symbolizes a great enemy humanity have. That enemy is a system not a person. It is the jungle system ruling our world. The system says strongest get the most and weakest get the least, so the strong one kills millions of people to get more and more. They do it in different ways. Like tobacco companies kill 5 millions people every year because they make billions of dollars and they try to make more people addicted to sell more. This example was one of hundreds of different ways. So the system that allows and gives the opportunity to strongest to become billionaires by producing tobacco is the Dajjal or Shaitan and according Islam we finally get rid of it. That is the Mahdi society where there is absolute justice and it is a promise by Quran. Not Mahdi is a promise by Quran but the society. As I said there is no Mahdi. Me and you and entire humanity are Mahdi. We just have to understand the way out of the jungle and get out ourselves by Islamic guidance. That is why Quran is the miracle of prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H. Not because it has more prayer and fasting and rules, no it is miracle because it is going to make possible the impossible. Please join my live streams if you want more discussions about it inshallah.

[@pebystroll]

​@@Introvertical873 dajjal/devil/satan is never mentioned in Judaism, I believe it was a later concept developed in christianity and went on to influence Islam, I think that satan/devil/dajjal was created for people to follow stricter belief and practices and a way to explain unexplainable suffering to believers

[@pebystroll]

​@Determined I think Christianity and Islam as religions are much richer and deeper without the concept

[@m.tayyab6952]

It's noteworthy that the position you've said you ascribe to isn't not traditional, IMO. IMO, In fact, it's traditional and exists among many current day scholars (not just lay Muslims), at least in the abstract. The principles you mentioned based on which Sahih ahadith are checked is very well-known, but I feel even among them, the way these principles are applied could be where some differences might arise. For example, a hadith for one person could go against reason whilst for other it might not.

[@WasifHasassin47Khan]

23:50 I believe that the Mutawwa hadith by Imam Malik (RA) is actually really sound. Even other scholars like Imam Shafii mentioned that "after the book of Allah, the book that is most authentic is the Mutawwa". Now I have a few reasons why I take this standpoint myself: 1)He lived and died in Medina. I highly doubt that after the Prophet SAW's passing, his spirit and legacy would be so quickly diminished, even after 50 years when the Sahaba were still alive so there is a lot to pick up on. 2)One of his teachers was Jafar Al Sadiq, one of the Prophet Muhammad's grandsons. That speaks volumes for itself. 3)The Mutawwa hadith capture the spirit of the believer in a sense of the basics (praying, fasting, hajj, fighting, dealings etc) 4)Took part in the development of the Quran in physical form under Caliph Uthman Ibn Affan. 5)We actually have manuscripts from the Mutawwa - I haven't seen any manuscripts of Bukhari and others but this speaks a lot for itself as well.

[@hammaadurrehman1459]

❤❤❤ amazing

[@muhammads575]

Salam Javad bhai, just rewatched this video after watching dr brown on the thinking muslim podcast and I'm just confused how come we can use weak hadiths even if it's to talk about manners if we know they're unreliable? Isn't that misleading?

[@rolandboston48774]

Great!

[@rakeshbai2732]

Please publish podcasts on other platforms other than KZbin (Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google podcasts, etc.)

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Sigh. I should probably but it's so much work to do so! But you're right -- I really should.

[@rakeshbai2732]

@@DrJavadTHashmi Your content is so enlightening and vital, not only for our ummah but for the world. It’s hard to put into words how valuable the discussions you’re facilitating are. Just know that you are doing God’s work. We need your voice and I think so many audiences would benefit by being able to listen to this podcast on other platforms, particularly so they can listen on the go and without ads. Best of luck brother. And thank you for all that you do.

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

@@rakeshbai2732 Thank you for your very kind words. May God ennoble you.

[@rioliswallenstein7982]

[2:23] I disagree on this. Maybe most muslims in western country yes. But in most muslims majority country, most people in majority muslims country take hadith more as their guidance then the Quran. Especially in a non arabic country, the Quran is something they just read without understanding what it means. In TV or in or any kind of religion event or show most of them will quote hadith instead of the Quran. In school and university, instead of learning the Quran, we learn about hadith related stuff. You might be thinking its a bell curve, but the reality is its skewed to the traditionalist side.

[@kenmiles23]

Exactly.. normal muslim don't take the meaning of Quran.. exactly i used to be quanist. There are certain Verse in Qur'an which is problematic for a reformer like him . Sunnah supersede the Qur'an...

[@frostpitt]

Agreed, I have found that most Muslims follow their traditions, what they learned from their parents, or from scholars and other Muslims rather than directly from the Quran.

[@viktorg8346]

Are you aware of scholarship of Atabek Shukurov who argues that original hanafi position was much more Quran-centric and it was under later influence of Shafi and Hanbali scholars that they became more hadith focus?

[@thetruth27786]

This was amazing.....this is the era to stop hadeeth worship and move to hadeeth caution

[@seekingHome-jb2bb]

Thank you for this video! Could you make one on why the Quran is divinely inspired? What if one doesn’t feel it in their heart when they read it?

[@letustryforbeauty]

I would say as long as you’re being sincere - you’re in the good. Allah does not charge someone beyond their capacity. But like anything else in life, if you really want to resonate with something you would put as much effort as you can to it. So for the Quran, it would be learning the Arabic and recitations, and studying / contemplating it. Watching videos from knowledgeable channels like this one would also help greatly. Peace and blessings to you and your journey :)

[@Cassim125]

I've asked this question so many times on this channel. I doubt javed is going to defend this because there is no arguments that are considered academically sound. Most of the arguments the dawah guys use are outdated and weak

[@DrWoofOfficial]

How do you verify the qira'aat and riwayaat of the Quran?

[@khany556]

Imagine you wanted to understand a verse of the Qur'an so bad that you went to a hadith to understand it. Qurans message snatched from you due to haste

[@MohamedShou]

When i hear certian Muslims say "i don't reject hadith entirely" it seems they pick and choose what suits them . Maybe im wrong

[@AboeAmir]

It should maybe viewed from the standpoint that ahaadith are not the unaltered and protected Word of God.

[@adoreroftheexpander7342]

Isn’t that what every hadith scholar who ever lived did? Picked/chose what they felt was most reliable to them? ...when you recognize that from the beginning it was a human endeavor, based on fallible methods of analysis, you realize that the entire history of the hadith project was one of picking and choosing.

[@deeznutz1428]

you think your hadith scholars didn't do that lol.... go read bruh and you will see all your hadith scholar did the same thing.

[@deeznutz1428]

@@adoreroftheexpander7342 if only these people knew. they think their source is somehow sacred. doesn't realise their sources pick and choose based on their liking not to mention all the historical contest/bias/politics that went on these hadith collection. hadith has to be the most self harming thing Muslims ever invented.

[@negeto2460]

​@@deeznutz1428 i totally agree bro! Nothing has done more damage to prophet Muhammad's reputation than the hadeeth corpus and hadeeth scholars!

[@TheQuranExplainsItself]

Considering the Quran alone as divinely inspired and nothing after it, is the very definition of a “quranist”. The rest was just fluff.

[@kooshin6180]

If that’s what Quranist is then we can simply say the 4 caliphs were Quranist since the first man who came up with the theory of duality of hadith/ “sahib al wahyayn” is Imam Shafi’i. Hadiths/traditional scholars even got the definition who’s Muslim wrong! According to the book of God(Quran), whoever believes in oneness of God, the hereafter and does good is a Muslim/Submitter, while in the hadith there’s the 5 pillars of Islam!!!

[@TheQuranExplainsItself]

@@kooshin6180 they (Sunnis) simply don’t care for the Quran anymore as it doesn’t support their political agenda.

[@robotnitchka]

Iyad Hilal suggested something similar about hadith studies

[@kmir224]

not sure if this guy has met Javed Ghamdi, but he shares almost the same exact thoughts regarding the importance and application of hadith. at 24:01 in the video, these statements are almost identical to Ghamdi saab's thoughts somewhat controversial, but they do make sense IMO

[@elijahali7934]

Yes, take a look on KZbin he taught a 10 psrt series class for the Ghamdi Center.

[@kmir224]

@@elijahali7934 he did? I honestly had no idea. I'll have to check it out Makes sense though. His thoughts were almost verbatim what Ghamdi Saab thinks

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

@@kmir224 I have much respect for Ghamidi Sahab. However, our views are not identical here. He actually places the Sunna (as he understands it) above the Quran, as far as I recall.

[@batura1]

No , he doesn’t put Sunna over Quran, but the contrary. Pls correct yourself. ​@@DrJavadTHashmi

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

@@batura1 I will dig up the quote from his book when I return to my home in a couple days. I will show you why I say this.

[@kilianklaiber6367]

The hadith are late inventions. Thus, you should not use Them in Order to make Sense of the quran.

[@AbidNasim]

Technically sunnah and Hadith are different; the former is the anything that is part of religion (دین) whereas the latter is basically news or reports, whether or not it is part of religion. Sunnan (plural of Sunnah) includes not just religious actions of the last Prophetؐ but all the previous ones, too. They were transmitted primarily by word of mouth, but also through books of fiqh like muawta, and finally bundled in Hadith. To qualify as religion, the basis of sunnan must be in the Quran.

[@sufiblade]

The issue is that the hadith is often misinterpreted as in the case of rajam. Umar did not overrule the Quranic punishment, but the death sentence was in fact carried out for another crime (rather than zina). This is well explained by Farahi

[@AboeAmir]

I'm ahaadith relativist, not a Quranist nor a ahaadith absolutist

[@AboeAmir]

Besides my disagreement with his political theology I believe Ibn Hazm was very bright when it came to hadith criticism and evaluation.

[@khany556]

What's problematic is the fact that they know about abu bakr and umar burning what they had written about the prophet since the prophet is allegeded to have said, do not portray anything about me. Therefore in the hands of munfiqs, a single hadith that is taken as sahih, would be a catastrophe when it comes to taking it as gospel as a believer. ""The Qur’an needs the Sunnah more than the Sunnah needs the Qur’an." This statement says it all about the harrowing state of Hadith-centric theology. The Qur'an is self sufficient. It's a living entity given to living people by a living God. We all need to think about that. Hadith is history ( transmitted by fallible men ) not wahi. The sunnah, like hadith, is not what the prohet did rather what others said or presumed to have said over two hundred years later. on what the prophet presumed to have done or did not do. Hadith and Sunnah are not the same thing. Until we correct our epistemological understanding, we will only choose extreme positions: either the Hadith-centric literalism of the Traditionists who have elevated Hadith above the Quran, or the opposite extreme of Quranists who reduce the Prophet to a mere oracle who left no lived example. A friend of mine said: I've spoken to a mufti who once told me that in some instances and I quote " The Ahadith in some situations takes precedence over the Quran and/or restricts it " Its easy to see why when the scholars they revere say this. These scholars they believe had super human intellect ( the intellect that we can all dream of and never reach) and were given divine assistance. When one believes this it is hard to move away from such an opinion. May Allah open our mind to the words of Allah. The messege of the Qur'an.

[@DrWoofOfficial]

No burning happened. Rafidis just hate the caliphs and spread lies

[@SAli-yb9us]

I don’t see the value in using weak hadith even for sermons - shouldn’t sermons be authentic too? It takes a lifetime to study and understand the Quran so studying hadith of dubious authenticity distracts from the more important task of studying, understanding and reflecting on the Quran. If Hadith that contradicts the Quran is rejected anyway why not stick to Quran and Sunnah only?

[@negeto2460]

What good is a weak or a Sahih hadeeth if hadith schoolars have classified 'khabar al-ahad' as 'Zann Daleel' (speculative proof)?? 99% of the hadith corpus is 'speculative' so how can we use them as a source of guidance?? What does Allah say about following 'Zann' ?? Here's a hint: The majority (akthara) on earth follow Speculation / assumptions (Zann) according the Qur'an!

[@Cassim125]

Certain hadith have a good moral regardless of how true they are ? like the hadith of the prostitute feeding the dog showing the power of altruism and forgiveness of God. It's worth teaching others regardless of being true or false

[@agazaman]

U basically error when say imam shafie elevate hadith same level to quraan, while in Shafie mazhab we Dont use hadith for usuludin, we use dalel naqal al-Quran and dalel aqal, while in usulufiq dalel naqal yakni Al-Quraan with the support of hadith,

[@WasifHasassin47Khan]

Please don’t put hadith and Quran on the same level, folks. Its God’s words versus man.

[@trappedinexistence]

as much as I dislike this channel I have to admit that the hadith absolutist position makes little sense. islamic scholars had their own hadith collections which may or may not contain the ones in bukhari for example. meaning, they didn't consider them true or weren't aware of them. Imam ahmed even goes as far as declaring those outside of his collection as false. today if a muslim rejects even one hadith from bukhari he's considered a deviant or non muslim. but that's exactly what previous scholars fall into. the further back you go in time the less structured and standardized ahadith get. even muslim and bukhari reject ahadith which the other considers true. if rejecting hadith makes one a deviant or non muslim then all previous scholars who had their own hadith collections are deviants and non muslims. it's the same thing with today's trinitarians and their church fathers. none of the early church fathers had the same concept of the trinity as today's trinitarians. they are both heretics to the other. the solution to this problem is in surah anbiya 7.

[@Alez_cortez]

Abu Humayd reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “If you hear a narration from me that your hearts recognize, settles your hair and skin, and you see it as close to you, then I am most deserving of it. If you hear a narration from me that your hearts reject, makes your hair stand and your skin crawl, and you see it as far from you, then I am the furthest from it.” Source: Musnad Aḥmad 15725 Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Arna’ut

[@Manmoon399_5]

Your argument is super. Sadly books like Sahih bukhari and muslim have become sacred despite the fact that their transmission is unreliable even if sahih. They distort our prophets reputation and Islam. Haters love using these hadith

[@aqm5239]

Very interesting talk, Dr. Hashmi. Thank you for clarifying your position on this matter. I do follow hadeeth myself, and I don't find the Quranist argument to be awfully compelling, to be quite frank. And We send down of the Qur’ān that which is healing and mercy for the believers, but it does not increase the wrongdoers except in loss. (17:82) Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islām. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah, then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account. (3:19) We do have to believe in the sanctity and power of the Quran to heal and edify. Men and women are spiritual beings and the Quran not only uses reason and makes injunctions, but it is, most importantly, a spiritual and emotional source of guidance and healing. However, Allah (SWT) did mention that even divine knowledge can be misused/abused in several places in the Quran, to the point where they only fell into disagreement AFTER knowledge had come to them. So, even the Quran is not spared misuse and the Quran itself seems to confirm this. Nouman Ali Khan even translates "jealous animosity" as the "urge to dominate". Dr. Jordan Peterson also describes territoriality as something that even the most basic of organisms (lobsters) engage in. So Allah may be warning us that the highest of knowledge (Divine knowledge) can be subsumed by or warped by the most primitive of urges/instincts. This is why deep faith and virtue are important, as you pointed out. But I don't think that it's a good idea to downgrade the status of hadeeth entirely either, unless we have a very, very good reason to do this. We need to look at the rhetoric and tone of the Quran on this matter. And [remember] when the Prophet confided to one of his wives a statement; and when she informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Aware." (66:3) Here we see that the Prophet(S) did receive revelation outside of the final version of the Quran. So we could assume that, at the very least, details of legislation could be found within the inspiration of the messenger (S). There also seem to be many other verses to suggest the authority of the Prophet Muhammad (S). And obey Allah and obey the Messenger and beware. And if you turn away - then know that upon Our Messenger is only [the responsibility for] clear notification. (5:92) It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error. (33:36) That Day, those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish they could be covered by the earth. And they will not conceal from Allah a [single] statement. (4:42) But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muḥammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission. And if We had decreed upon them, "Kill yourselves" or "Leave your homes," they would not have done it, except for a few of them. But if they had done what they were instructed, it would have been better for them and a firmer position [for them in faith]. And then We would have given them from Us a great reward. And We would have guided them to a straight path. (4:65 - 68) There are many verses which seem to suggest the moral and legislative authority of the prophet (S). But, if you look at the last set of verses, then this is the only time that Allah swears by Himself in the Quran. Also, He refers to Himself as the "Your (the prophet's) Lord". So this is clearly a weighty statement. As such, it is very possible that the authority of the messenger (S) may have a much greater place in Islam than the hadeeth rejectors believe. That's why I was hoping that you would speak to a more conservative/traditional scholar about his/her views on the hadeeth, and what their place is in Islam and why they are still believed to reliable. Perhaps that would enrich the discourse within this community as well. There are, also, many issues that may arise when we remove the inherited tradition of the prophet (S), and the hadeeth (like when to spare a thief), and I feel like the hadeeth are blamed a lot for the problems they could cause, but they don't always get credit for what orthodoxy they did help to establish and what harms were prevented as a result of their presence. Thank you, again, for your commitment to God's religion and to finding a good wat forward.

[@jaavaidhashim5845]

QURANIC SCRIPTURE OF KALAM ALLAH KITABULLAH AND SUNNATULLAH OF MILLAT IBRAHIM'S HANIFS RELIGION WORSHIP AL RAHMAN OF (AL HANIFIYYAH), = HANIFAN MUSLIMAN and NOWHERE in QURANIC VERSES (THE SUNNAT OF MUHAMMAD NOWHERE ) which part of your lord would you deny surely AL RAHMAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH

[@danadam1296]

So without the Hadith, not Muslim would make heaven?

[@centric145]

As much as I tried for years ,I still don t understand the diff between sunna and hadith

[@negeto2460]

Take a look at all the verses that make mention of 'hadeeth' and 'sunnah' and see if it matches the definitions given by Muslims. We do not find the 'hadeeth' or the 'sunnah' of prophet Muhammad in the Qur'an, but rather we find the 'hadeeth' of Allah and the 'sunnah' of Allah! Why don't Sheikhs & Imams ever talk about this?? Have you EVER heard a lecture or a sermon describing the hadeeth / sunnah of Allah??

[@perhonentoukka3148]

Sunnah is tradition, hadith are sayings

[@Natalie-fj7fs]

You don’t need Hadith for a single thing and that is the truth.

[@hamza1947]

Where do the five prayers come from then, genius?

[@DrWoofOfficial]

Do you follow the Quran?

[@inamullah6455]

the only Quran position is self defeating at least one should accept the hadees than are consistent and don't contradict with Quran .

[@drasticmeasuresislam]

Hello Javad. I am a strong critic of your religion and the popular online Dawah apologists who spread what I see as the worst version of it. While I am sceptical of how moderate you present yourself to be, I see that you are due to debate Daniel Haqiqatjou on the Modern Day Debate channel in June. I was concerned that you never appeared to challenge these popular Salafi types so I am pleased to see you are going to be doing so with Daniel. My channel is a small one in numbers, but growing and I would like to invite you on for a discussion. I am an atheist (formerly Christian) and am interested in exploring the differences between your version of the religion and the one the Salafis promote, although I am open to discussing other issues too. While I am almost certain you would consider at least some of my content "Islamophobic", I thought I would offer all the same as I see you have spoken to other critics of your religion. If you are at all interested please let me know and we can work out a time and date at your earliest convenience? For purposes of working out a time, I am UK based. Kind regards.

[@elliot7205]

How did you arrive at the conclusion there is no Creator?

[@user-sf8zw8wl3d]

Hadith has changed the word of God and ruined Islam altogether.

[@centi50s]

You lost my support by saying Quran is not understandable. While many verse says it's detailed. What JAVED is doing is in another way Accepting Jonathan Brown blasphemous statements. That sunnah rules over the book God. Now openly this shows us Majority of Muslims worship Muhammad to be euqal or even higher that God just like the Christians belive on Jesus

[@Zarghaam12]

*Sorry, but a typically confused community that FORGOT, or indeed defied, very early on, the warning and advice of the Prophet(s) on the Day of Ghadeer, ended deviating from it and landed itself in utter confusion* ! *The following is from our COMMON history. Muslim scholars of whatever persuasion, i.e. the four SURVIVING orthodox Sunni schools, or the essentially two Shia schools, agree upon this, that on the Day of Ghadeer he (the Prophet) made the following TWO utterances* : 1) *Hadeeth-ul-Ghadeer in Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah sources* (ححديث الغدير في مصادر أهل السنة والجماعة): ألَسْتُ أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم؟ قالوا بلى يارسول الله. قال: من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه. اللهم وال من والاه و عاد من عاداه. The Prophet asked: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?” People cried and answered: "Yes, O’ Messenger of God.” Then the Prophet (s) held up the hand of ‘Ali and said: *Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), ‘Ali is his leader (Mawla). O’ God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him* . *Some Sunni references* (more available!): (1) Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63; (2) Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43; (3) Khasa’is, by al-Nisa’i, pp 4,21; (4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p129, v3, pp 109-110,116,371; (5) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,118,119,152,330, v4, pp 281,368,370, 372,378, v5, pp 35,347,358,361,366,419 (from 40 chains of narrators); (6) Fada’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, pp 563,572; (7) Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p103 (from several transmitters); (8) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50; (9) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v3, p19; (10) Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, pp 169,173; (11) al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v3, p213, v5, p208; (12) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn Athir, v4, p114; (13) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v2, pp 307-308; (14) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part 3, p144; (15) Sawaiq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, p26; (16) al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v2, p509; v1, part1, p319, v2, part1, p57, v3, part1, p29, v4, part 1, pp 14,16,14 (17) Tabarani, who narrated from companions such as Ibn Umar, Malik Ibn al-Hawirath, Habashi Ibn Junadah, Jari, Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqas, Anas Ibn Malik, Ibn Abbas, Amarah,Buraydah, etc. etc. ; (18) Tarikh, by al-Khatib Baghdadi, v8, p290; (19) Hilyatul Awliya’, by al-Hafiz Abu Nu’aym, v4, p23, v5, pp26-27; (20) al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, Chapter of word "ayn”(‘Ali), v2, p462; (21) Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, pp 154,397; (22) al-Mirqat, v5, p568; (23) al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p172; (24) Dhaka’ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p68; (25) Faydh al-Qadir, by al-Manawi, v6, p217; (26) Yanabi’ al-Mawaddah, by al-Qudoozi al-Hanafi, p297; ... and literally hundreds more! 2) *Hadeeth-uth-Thaqalian* (۵) إني قد تركت فيكم الثقلين أحدهما أكبر من الآخر كتاب الله تعالى و عترتي فانظروا كيف تخلفوني فيهما فإنهما لن يتفرقا حتى يردا علي الحوض " *Verily, I leave behind two precious things amongst you, one of which is greater than the other. The Book of Allah, the Exalted, AND My ‘ITRAH **-close family or kindred-** so watch out how you treat these two after me, for indeed they will not separate from each other until they come back to me by the side of the Pond* " [The Pond = al-Kauthar] *The strange Event of Saqeefah entailed outright defiance of the Prophet's wish to have his cousin Ali ibn Abi Talib succeed him. There are other pieces of evidence for this, including several other ahaadeeth and even a verse in the Quran, called Ayat-ul-Ghadiir* . a) *Aayat-ul-Ghadeer Asbaab-un-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi - SUNNI TAFSEER SURAH AL-MAA'IDAH VERSE 67* www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=86&tSoraNo=5&tAyahNo=67&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 ... *and there is also Haiith ud Daar* : b) *Hadith Yawm-ud-Daar* [حدیث یوم الدار] "إن هذا أخي وصيّي وخليفتي فيكم فاسمعوا له وأطيعوه. " *This is my brother, executor and successor. Listen to him and obey him* " *Sunni Refs* : 1) *Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal* , vol. 1, p. 111; 2) *Ibn al-Athir Tarikh al-Kamil* vol. 2, pp. 40-41; 3) *At-Tabari Tarikh ar-Rusul wal Mulook* , vol. 2, pp. 62-63; 4) *Ibn Abi’l-Hadid, Sharh Nahj al-Balaghah* , vol. 13, pp. 210-212; 5) Nusoos 'ala zikr al-wasiyyah li Ali; *The Quran needed an interpreter and the Prophet(s) knew who that person was, as should be obvious from SUNNI hadiith sources above and the Quranic verse, Surah 5, verse 67*