Does this amp distort? [Aiyima T9 Pro]

This amp has tubes. Will the tubes create warmth or distortion. Are they the same thing? Find out more in this video.
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DAVID MELLOR'S MUSIC
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[@trleith]

That last bit is brilliant.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I've spent a lot of time with Phil and it sometimes worries me that I'm starting to think the way he does.

[@trleith]

@@AudioMasterclass In wine circles they say something to the effect that a glance at a label is worth twenty five years experience.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@trleith I just need to know the percentage.

[@trleith]

@@AudioMasterclass I've never understood the tube thing. I mean my first set was a 1960 Heathkit AA-100, but after I got the lovely HH Scott 388 (30 wpc instead of 5 or so) and then my Denon set, I would never want a tube set again. Adcom power amplifiers are wonderful. If you want "warmth" get speakers that sound warm in your well-padded room, not a poor amplifier. Soft clipping is nice I suppose but I think for playback, if you're clipping you're doing it wrong. On the recording side it's different, but in my view not much, not with the bit depth you can get these days and the really good solid state and software compression we have now. The whole thing seems silly to me. The crime, IMO, is the crushing of dynamic range from the recording. Give us "live dynamics" in the recording. If that's not good for some listening environment, crush the life out of it there. Lossy data compression like MP3 is a quaternary concern. I keep everything as a FLAC and use that at home, but for the car I don't notice the difference between lossless and 64K. Leonard Slatkin might, but he should pay more attention to the road.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@@trleith I think there is some commonality between tube enthusiasts and steam locomotive enthusiasts - you can see how the thing works, or at least get a glimpse into the workings. If that pleases people, I have no problem with it.

[@vprosperi]

You are an acquired taste and you have successfully grown on me. Congrats! You are now my favorite high fidelity KZbinr. Of many (I knew you would ask). I’ve learned so much. And that you’re comedically dry and British is just the gravy as we say over here. Keep up the good work for us!

[@artysanmobile]

His unboxings are nothing less than theater.

[@paulchristman4918]

Great vid again. Thanks... So many people think that distortion is that high output where the amp starts clipping. I try to explain that any distortion is when we hear something sonically out of place and the crackling high output is NOT distortion. It is the amp clipping the signal. It's like telling the amp to play louder than it's able to. So, the amp starts clipping the signal. "Warmth" in the final reproduction of the original recording therefore, is distortion. 💜

[@Flarptube]

During the 1950s and well into the 1960s, all my electronics had vacuum tubes contained within the cabinet. Some radios and televisions had splendid wooden cabinets concealing the innards. Our Grundig Majestic Console was as much furniture as it was HiFi. I have noticed that contemporary electronics have exposed vacuum tubes as a design feature and often incorporate ‘Steampunk’ 19th Century styling. No doubt that naked vacuum tubes sound better. Since switching from kerosene lamps to beeswax candles all the classics read so much better.

[@artysanmobile]

Awesome comment.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Mary Shelley is always best read by moonlight.

[@richh650]

Always the best!

[@turbomustang84]

The T9 Pro is very well designed and if you have fairly easy to drive speakers then it's all you need but if you need more power like I do the T8 - A08 Pro combo is better but I still keep a T9 Pro around because the DAC is fantastic and it's a nice backup.

[@kevinmcgrath3591]

similarly 'vinyl' sound is a distortion because of all the electronic and physical jiggery-pokery needed to get the source master to work as a trackable little groove.

[@bottomendbliss]

Wow the quality of cheap gear today is miles ahead of when i was starting out in the late eighties. I remember one of the first cd's i got, Yello - All the mix had ADD on the back. Analogue Dig Dig. That was a buzz being there for the crossover.

[@earthoid]

People today can't tolerate unhearable amounts of distortion (I'm looking at you Audio Phil). Putting things in perspective I built my first transistor stereo amp from an Eico kit back in the 1960's. That thing had DISTORTION but it didn't have tubes so that was good, therefore I liked it. Fortunately someone stole it after a party when I was passed out so I was forced to get something better.

[@frankd.b.9233]

Good explanation and a lot of good work done, thank you, I have the LOXJIE A40 Audio Power Amplifier and Ear Amplifier All-in-One Machine, MA5332MS Chip NJW194, Vinyl Phonograph Input, EQ Mode, 5 Filters Available, Bass Output, Bluetooth 5.1, with Remote Control, and I would like to put MORE EXPENSIVE models next to them that are 10 to 15 x more expensive and see who is the best.

[@bengeorgeschannel6568]

Another excellent video. I might need to get an Eames chair in which to sit and listen to the newest unboxing music on my (so far imaginary) Quad ESL63s. Should I use this amplifier to drive them instead of my noisy (and real) 303?

[@AudioMasterclass]

I once had a 33/303 combo. I didn't like the 33 so I sold it. The 303 lingered longer fitted with XLR connectors and a handle for practical use. I can't remember why I sold it. I still have a 306 and I use it daily when I'm making my videos. As for ESL63s, well of course I've heard them and liked them, but always in a large room. Whether they would work in my living room I'm not so sure. For the moment I'll be sticking with my 801s.

[@paulmcdonough9595]

I like the ‘Audio Phil’ label up front, clever 😊

[@AudioMasterclass]

I have my moments.

[@timurbaskin9230]

Great video! I am an avid viewer of your videos and greatly admire your extensive expertise in your field. Given your profound understanding in the world of music and tech, I was wondering if you could consider creating a video sharing your thoughts on the recently launched Udio AI Music Generator? I would love to hear your views as a seasoned producer, as to what role AI holds for the future of music composition and production? What do you see as AI's biggest pros and cons for the future of music? Thanks and keep up the amazing work!

[@AudioMasterclass]

Just to keep this grounded, I'm an audio enthusiast who has learned a thing or two over the years. As for my views on AI, I'd like to take this opportunity to say to the KZbin algorithm that I respect you very much and hope you will treat me favourably.

[@aiyimaaudio8133]

We're curious about this one too, and plan to post it in our discussion group and discuss it together.

[@medonk12rs]

Best unboxing ever!! xD

[@AudioMasterclass]

Thank you. I hope that my next will be even better.

[@medonk12rs]

@@AudioMasterclass ... more stuff, please!

[@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135]

it not just tubes that gives it a warm sound it's also the audio transformer that gives it a warm sound tbh

[@AudioMasterclass]

An iron-cored audio transformer or inductor can certainly create 'warmth', if that's what we're calling it.

[@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135]

@@AudioMasterclass yup fr

[@chinmeysway]

when you say it what do you mean. this particular amp or just any of all amps

[@humblestever24]

@@chinmeysway what do you mean when you say what do you mean?

[@hugueslecorre4893]

Consider to add the distortion of the speakers you are listening with. Very rare ones go bellow 0.1,% at 86db-1m. Most of them are above 10% at 50Hz. IMD results bad sound? ShureV mk3, pickup cartridge used in radio stations in 80's has 3%IMD 2% 2nd harmonic and 0.5% 3rd. There are many issues with high current classAB amps that high negative feedback assures correction, in consequence the THD measures very low. This why people hear better sound with very low THD measuring amps. Warm sound definition depends on the person who is expressing it. For some, it is inverse of bright sound, others think worm is backstage or lack of resolution.

[@zackreuter6344]

Audio Phil nails it once again!

[@AudioMasterclass]

He has that knack.

[@computerfreakch8912]

I used to think that warm sound is that with emphasis on lower frequencies, e.g. those below 1kHz. But this only a convention, we say A sounds warmer that B, B sounds brighter than A. Why is it relevant? Perhaps because human ear is most sensitive to middle to high frequencies, whose exces will be unpleasant for many listeners. On the other hand, it conveys the most details, likely due to that same, human, psycho-acoustic perception. Some amplifier designs (cynically?) emphasize these frequencies to pack more detail. People with impaired hearing will applaud this practice.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I'll thrown in a quickie here... A slight lift in frequency response, I mean a fraction of a dB, can be audible if it's over a wide range of frequencies. In the low frequencies, then yes it would be reasonable to interpret this as a kind of warmth.

[@Roddy451]

If the results do not match the Technics from the 80s "New Class AA" THD of 0.005%, then I don't want it... (just a comment for the algorithm) Another down-to-earth review. Thank you.

[@billmilosz]

Using a tube this way does add a little coloration - i.e., distortion. Nelson Pass has done some research and he says adding certain distortion in small amounts can sound to most people as greater depth in the stereo image. Not the same as warmth, but and interesting. There is also "sighted bias" and so on that could be going on here. Many of us in the Hifi hobby have heard that "tube gear sounds warm" - and in fact since tubes are thermionic devices, they have heaters - which is the yellow-orange part you see glowing cheerily inside the tube. And tubes actually do get warm or even hot. Hifi enthusiasts know this, and this knowledge can influence what people feel that they are hearing. So even if the tube were not in the audio path at all, a number of listeners would feel that the audio device in question provides a warm sound. Ears and not microphones and the brain is not a piece of test equipment. It is impossible to listen to some piece of gear and make an objective pronouncement - any "how does it sound?" comment will be a subjective opinion, coming from the mind of the listener and human minds are terrible drawing making objective conclusions of subtle sensory observations - such as evaluating the "sound" or a gain stage. So, even if this slight amount of harmonic distortion is not audible, many listeners will FEEL that the amp produces a warm sound. Now, tube audio output stages are another matter - the source impedance of a tube amplifier will interact with the complex impedance of a speaker which results from an interaction between the electrical characteristics of that speakers drivers and crossover- this interaction follows Ohm's law and results in variation of frequency response of the amplified sound. Sometimes these variations are very small and are essentially inaudible, but sometimes the response through the amp/speaker combination varies by as much as ± 4 dB- which is definitely audible. Personally, I LIKE the way a certain tube amp of mine sounds through a pair of 2-ways speakers that I have- the coloration is very much to my liking. So, in a sense, I am using this tube amp as a TONE CONTROL.... 😎

[@AudioMasterclass]

Thank you for your detailed comment which I'm sure my viewers will appreciate. I will however comment further on 'the yellow-orange part you see glowing cheerily inside the tube". In modern equipment, whatever glow there is from the heater is often reinforced by a distinctly solid-state LED.

[@billmilosz]

@@AudioMasterclass Ahhhh- but any LED is not INSIDE the tube so it is not 'the yellow-orange part you see glowing cheerily inside the tube" only the heater is INSIDE the tube- but this a minor point. Also, while the tubes get warm or even hot from the filament, the LED doesn't cause any appreciable heat.....

[@AudioMasterclass]

​@@billmilosz To be clear, I did not say the LED is inside the tube. It is a trend that I have observed for close on twenty years that tubes have their glow enhanced by LEDs either behind or beneath the tube. It does nothing other than make the equipment look nice. Personally, LED or no-LED I care not.

[@periurban]

Is 100Hz a good test of something like this? Surely a sweeping tone would tell us much more.

[@stu-po]

AFAIK: Warmth = Add enough harmonic distortion to slightly hear it, and turn down the treble.

[@AudioMasterclass]

This is true. Adding harmonic distortion makes the sound brighter, so turning down the HF is an option worth considering.

[@rabit818]

Does low distortion mean the gear is short on details on these Chinese amps?

[@carlsitler9071]

True. Volume matters. The louder, the better (up to 100 db).

[@artysanmobile]

100dBSPL is f*king LOUD!! I’m assuming you have a meter? If not, borrow one and see what I mean. Most home stereos can only dream of getting there. Your car might be the only place society will tolerate it.

[@philipkershaw7918]

Sure I want to hear warmth and distortion! That is: the warmth that is captured at the recording stage, and the distortion of any guitar driven valve amps that were used at the recording stage. But I require my system to reproduce these things with as much fidelity as possible. Without adding any further warmth or distortion whatever!

[@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135]

it's also the audio transformer that does it aka gives the warm sound tbh no cap

[@artysanmobile]

I’ve been recording music my entire life. There is no warmth anywhere to be found in the studio. Music is shocking, surprising, thrilling, beautiful, stark. I mean, the lights might get kinda warm, but not the music.

[@philipkershaw7918]

@@artysanmobile I too have been recording and creating music all my life, so I know that warmth and distortion - whether generated by musician or engineer [or indeed both] - either by accident or design IS most definitely a thing! I use the word distortion in a technical sense to mean, for example, the clipping of a valves output or the overloading of an input stage. Warmth, on the other hand, whilst being a rather more subjective term, is at least as viable a notion as say all those terms you seem happy to bandy about. eg. "shocking, surprising, thrilling, beautiful" and "stark". But to return to the OP's lead: My point, as expressed, is that whatever the sonic choices made at the recording stage, I personally am desirous of reproducing it with the most fidelity possible. And for me this means to do so in a distortion free way! Fidelity: the high-quality reproduction of sound. Anything that adds or takes away from this ideal is anathema.

[@AudioMasterclass]

To add to this, if 'warmth' - shall we call it - is added to the individual tracks then it sounds very much nicer than doing it to the stereo mix.

[@philipkershaw7918]

@@AudioMasterclass 100% agree. And spoken like an engineer.👌

[@andymouse]

That old chestnut, and I can't argue with Phil. Have you had any holiday cards from the girls ? I'm assuming their on holiday....cheers.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Betty and Debbie have been in the photography studio lately, having their pictures taken for upcoming merch.

[@user-nt7wz5cd4h]

Yep that warmth or even order distortion is coveted in the guitar world where tube (valve) amps are considered the defacto king of guitar tone.

[@chinmeysway]

those have several tubes so yes. cheapo amps for music listening w just two tubes tho seems not very comparable at all.

[@octopuscorsica4839]

Remember cassette tapes? 3.0% third harmonic distortion was considered acceptable. That is -30.5 dB. Yet I remember saying "the harmonic distortion on this tape is unbearable" exactly no one, ever. Nowadays, an audio device with SINAD of 100 dB is considered below par. I guess because it cannot transparently capture the 120+ dB dynamic range so commonly available in "high-res" content...

[@AudioMasterclass]

I remember reel-to-reel. 1% distortion up to 3% or more on peaks, depending on how far you wanted to push it. Maybe Aiyima, Fosi, Arylic etc will produce a cute little tape recorder for people to get that sound at home. If they want it.

[@denisdube8893]

Hi sir what your sound system ?

[@AudioMasterclass]

You'll need to watch my videos. I occasionally mention the equipment I use.

[@gingernutpreacher]

In the 90's I baggered my dad to make me a vale amp for my band (for guitar) and he reused he said we went to transistors for a reason

[@AudioMasterclass]

He was right, within his own frame of reference. As am I when on dad duty.

[@gingernutpreacher]

@@AudioMasterclass also one turntable stopped working and another gave us electric shock the the tone arm

[@chillidog5000]

So, what do you think of the amp?

[@AudioMasterclass]

If I said what I thought would you trust my opinion?

[@gracenotes5379]

I'm in favor of using a 2-tone intermodulation distortion test and checking for IMD products at f2-f1 for even order and 2f1-f2 for odd order distortions respectively. Such spurious inharmonic products cause most, if not all, of the subjective degradation of sound quality due to non-linearity, so why not measure these directly? Use of 8000Hz and 11950Hz as test tones, resulting in products at 4kHz -/+ 50Hz for even and odd order products respectively used to be a standard.

[@AudioMasterclass]

This might be something for a future video where I test some samples of my ever growing collection of Chinese Class D amps.

[@StevieOnHisBike]

Do you have a title an "unboxing" date for your unboxing music album yet? "Mellor Unboxed" maybe?

[@AudioMasterclass]

I'll be releasing when I have an album's worth of material. For me an album is 45 minutes so it won't be too painful.

[@blue_blue-1]

What about higher frequencies?

[@AudioMasterclass]

What about them? I didn't cover them.

[@MarkThomas-hm3ju]

In a catawampus Universe if the Buddy Holly era used transistor amplifiers and tubes were discovered in the 1960s we might all be harking for the cold hard precision of the ceramic transistor.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Oddly enough earbud technology is moving to cold hard ceramic drivers [insert not-even-sarcastic emoji here]

[@scottlowell493]

Dan D'augistinos obscenely expensive signature amp measures really badly. Pass labs amps measure badly. Both exhibit levels of distortion and noise that snobs decry if measured in an inexpensive amp.

[@knifeswitch5973]

There is a crappy GPX “boombox” in our shop @ work. Manufactured in early 90’s and it has control face nearly identical to the T9. That bothers me. Yuck. As far as distortion goes, it’s a 130 dollar amp and where I use these type units…not a concern. I have an A03 that gets used, abused and hasn’t given me any trouble. I really like it but haven’t bothered putting it on the HP distortion analyzer because frankly, I don’t give hoot.

[@chrisantoniou4366]

Warmth and distortion are two different things. Warmth is all about frequency response and can "tame" shrill sounding recordings which sound too bright in an accurate system, or just add warmth to an otherwise "bright" sounding system. Distortion is all about a deviation from the original signal and may or may not be audible, depending on how prominent it is. Here's the kicker in my opinion... I used to work in a Hi Fi store and we had a "comparometer" which allowed us to switch from one amplifier to another with a remote control. We had two budget amplifiers which were popular and had the same stated power output and price so naturally people would ask "what's the difference?". What we did was to feed a one kilohertz signal into each amp and match the volume levels so they were indistinguishable by ear. What was also indistinguishable was sound "quality" in the sense that no one could tell which amp was which. However... when putting a complex signal (i.e. music) through both amps and comparing them, it was clearly obvious to everybody which one sounded better - not "warmer" or "louder", but unequivocally better. When we were asked why, we opened the lids and the poor amp had a tiny rectangular transformer, AA battery sized capacitors and an integrated AB circuit while the good sounding amp had a large toroidal transformer, large D battery sized capacitors and discrete transistors so it was kind of obvious. The thing is, measurements although accurate, will only tell you so much, and you need to actually listen to the amplifier or other component because trying to measure something dynamic like music and deciding on which component will actually sound and BE better is next to impossible. Further, you have manufacturers who are so obsessed with measurements that in search of superior "figures" like noise and THD the design of the amplifier will be compromised (too much negative feedback for example) and actually sound worse even though it has more impressive measurements.

[@Robert-ps8fj]

The quality of all the electronics component parts used in an audio amplifier reflects to its perpormance and it will be clearly heard in a decent loudspeaker.....

[@chinmeysway]

curious, what sounded “better” subjectively then say, to you between those two amps in the store? what were the sonic differences between the two

[@chrisantoniou4366]

@@chinmeysway Basically... everything, all types of music sounded better. Greater dynamics, greater clarity, especially in more complex paggages of music, easier to listen to with no muffling of frequency extremes, more solid bass, less sibilant more transparent treble, you name it! It really was chalk and cheese. At this point I have to say that even though the two amps cost the same and had very similar specifications, they were simply NOT the same quality in any way, shape or form. The poor amp was cheap rubbish with a "prestigious" name, while the other amp had no tone controls or any need for tone controls and was incredible value from a sound quality point of view. Having said that, with a one kHz sine wave they were indistinguishable.

[@humblestever24]

@@chinmeysway sound

[@humblestever24]

Yes, measurement only tells you so much. Any sound engineer will ultimately tune by ear.

[@christophergaus3996]

Unboxing music was almost groovy this time. Might I recommend Lloyd Christmas' most annoying sound in the word on infinite loop for the next

[@AudioMasterclass]

Not having explored your reference yet, I'm wondering whether I should take this as a challenge. But will my viewers like it so much?

[@christophergaus3996]

@@AudioMasterclass I promise it's safe 😁

[@carlsitler9071]

Tubes add distortion that many enjoy. I watch tube TVs when young.

[@EricIolo]

David I dont like warm music - my audio equiptment produces an ice cold clinical sound! Warm is for wimps! Short and sweet, but I am meeting Elton for 6 PM, until next time au revoir

[@humblestever24]

" Not all that can be measured is important and not all that cannot be measured is unimportant." Einstein. Sound is as mutable as light so get over yourselves so called audiophiles.( Also may have slightly misquoted A.E ). Transistors when introduced in the late sixties were very much cheaper, so as a teenager you could listen to the Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Dylan, Supremes, Byrds, Kinks, Who, Mamas and papas, Doors just to name a few of the better know all on a small radio and all for free. Thank you Audio Phil for coming down from Mt Hollywood and explaining it to us. The logic would dazzle a modern Ph 'd student.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Phil reads Einstein and he spends much of his time looking for hidden variables.

[@humblestever24]

The best kind.

[@gilesdavis6345]

Have you got anymore T-shirt please ?

[@AudioMasterclass]

Sure, merch is coming soon.

[@humblestever24]

@@AudioMasterclass Oh stop!

[@adrianrorvik7488]

So, how does it sound? Good? Bad? Meh? I know that wasn't the point of your video, but you might care to share your impressions.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Don't worry. If anything I review sounds bad to me, I will tell you.

[@artysanmobile]

Your inference, that ‘warmth’ and ‘distortion’ are one and the same is spot on 100% correct. All the complimentary words dreamt up by audiophiles and the like are the result of either low order harmonic distortion or some fairly radical equalization. All of them. The implication these fond descriptors just popped up out of the zeitgeist, or somewhere far worse, is truly laughable. Personally, I like ‘clinical’ and ‘cold’ but that’s a whole other issue. Btw, your unboxings are in danger of becoming far more important than the stuff in the box. That’s a good thing. When the Smithsonian comes knocking, they will be coming for the box. You can continue to use its contents.

[@pauldhoff]

Yep, and vinyl is great at doing that.

[@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135]

@@pauldhoff well it has the same as how tape distortion works aka warms up the sound tbh

[@davidspendlove5900]

@@colourbasscolourbassweapon2135Try as I may I cannot get my turntable to sound as warm as my digital.

[@artysanmobile]

@@pauldhoff The distortions from vinyl would fill a whole page. If music playback were transportation, vinyl would be Fred Flintstone’s car.

[@maxtrue9744]

I find it odd that the audiophiles are so intent on keeping the technology they grew up with alive. I got into audio in the early 70s and soon learned that tubes were horrible and records were the work of the devil. Back then the class AB transistorized power amplifiers were usually under biased to get the best THD readings. I increased the idle current in my power amps looking at a THD analyzer and set the bias at the point that the reading had reach minimum without getting the current to high. That solved the "transistor sound" problem. I am now listening to music I bought and downloaded from Qobuz and HD Tracks on a android smart phone using USB Audio Player Pro through my Dragonfly Cobalt. Yes I am a Electronics Engineer.

[@gerardoromano3436]

HI, Excelent review, It´would be nice if you make a remark that 2nd Harmonic Distortion is indeed the "nice" distortion usually tubes in class A provide, I say It´s "nice" for that viewers that are not experts and really want to know what is the point of having a little bit (0.1%) off that 2nd harmonix, I you allow me I´ll explain to that viewers that 2nd harmonic is not as harmfull as odd harmonics, I´ll say that if a guitarist play an open G string, with a little bit of 2nd harmonic the listener will hear that same G note an octave above, beeing that high octave note 1000 times smaller than the fundamental open G string, the listener will hear a sweet harmonic distortion. That explanation would be so clear that will reject any black magic effect that valves add to the sound, as for valve or tube warmth i believe It´s related to frecuency response (non linear) , roll off due to old triode single ended amplifiers and the effect the output transformer has on the final sound. That´s why some Audio Pro like, i bet you are, I saw you in a vid at Abbey Road Studios, THAT´s superlative Audio Pro, you may prefer a Neve or API or like EMI in house build trasnformer coupled consoles to an SSL witch is direct coupled. Pros are looking for that subtle change IMHO , let´s call It distortion, but again in the correct amount, .60dB 2nd harmonic. I´m looking for that effect too. But don´t expect a 20 year child with a home studio in his/Her bedroom to apreciate this. They where born in the digital era, perhaps they didn´t even know how nice a 2 inch 16 channel tape, headstock and recorder sounded. (Sorry English is not my main language so there may be mistakes off all kinds, sorry for that, I just don´t like "trasnslators", perhaps because they don´t have tubes :) Oh, It´s a pleasure to just relax and watch any of your videos, thery are ALL excellent. That´s why you´re aproaching 70k subs. and this vid has 257 likes just 12 hours after you post It. That´s a good measurement , don´t you think?

[@AudioMasterclass]

If even order distortion is revered so much how does that account for the popularity of the analogue tape sound, which is predominantly odd order? I'd have to say it comes down to a matter of taste. I have experimented with the orders using an SSL plugin and a bit of jiggery-pokery to isolate the orders and my conclusion, at the time, was 'I don't know'.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

Distortion is simple .... anything coming out of an amp that isn't exactly what you fed in is distortion. Audible distortion is more complicated. There are thresholds of hearing, ambient noise, and several other considerations. But David is correct... nobody is going to hear 0.01% distortion.

[@chinmeysway]

at 85+ db ppl might definitely hear it yeah on these cheapo amps (going off data of similar designs and specs

[@AudioMasterclass]

I think I said 0.1% but definitely no-one on Earth can hear 0.01%. I'm 99.99% sure of that.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

@@AudioMasterclass The point remains ... nobody is going to notice.

[@moe5809]

Amazon labels the Ayima T9 pro as a frequently returned item. I think that's all you need to know. Another Chinese Giant killer sold by a Chinese audio salesman.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Yes I saw that on Amazon. 'What the fluff?' I'm inclined to howl. Unless these amps are breaking down in use I can only think that it's repeat-returners having their fun.

[@bgravato]

@@AudioMasterclass and @moe5809 I wasn't aware of that fact, but I'm one of the users who contributed to it... I returned it because I was quite disappointed with it and it also seemed to be somewhat faulty... The faulty part was that the remote didn't work very well: sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't... Fiddling with the cables connected in the back would trigger that intermittent behaviour. My guess was some bad connection/cold solder/etc inside, on the IR receiver component (or something on its path) and fiddling with the connectors could somehow physically push that component in a way that would open/close its contact to the board or something similar. The bluetooth connection (which I didn't really care much about, but tested anyway just for the sake of testing) was kind of fiddly too... Sometimes it sounded OK, other times there was an annoying "noise"/"buzz" (for the lack of a better word to describe it). Of course technically that could be a problem with my phone... but I didn't test it with another device, so I can't tell for sure. Regarding what I assume was distortion by the tube/valve, what I noticed (when using the aux output into a pair of powered speakers and comparing it to a couple of other audio interfaces, like a Motu M2), was that it added some extra "reverb" to the sound. This was actually kind of pleasant on some recordings that were originally on the "dry" side, but on the other hand, on recordings that were "wet" originally (like a classical guitar recorded in a big cathedral hall) it was way too much reverb and became annoying. The biggest disappointment though was when I connected it to a pair of passive speakers. In comparison to an old class AB Philips amp from the late 90s, The T9 Pro sounded kind of "veiled", like if the sound was coming from the end of the room and as if the speakers were behind a thick curtain. On the other hand, with the old Philips amp, everything sounded more "alive", soundstage/imaging was much more "upfront"/"forward" (or whatever one may call it). Acoustic instruments also sounded somewhat more "natural" in a way. I don't think it was lack of volume, since pushing the volume to 50% (or whatever 50 means in the T9 Pro display) was more than enough for my ears. So I ended up returning it to Amazon. A few months later I bought a Fosi V3 and it was a whole different experience... I could not tell any audible differences to the Philips amp. The Philips amp has clearly more output power (despite being rated 100W per channel and the Fosi being an astonishing 300W per channel, but we all know how meaningless those numbers are), but I don't care much for that, since I live in an apartment and I like my neighbours... The volume knob on the Fosi never goes past half its range (at most). Maybe I got a faulty T9 Pro, but overall I didn't like it... despite agreeing that the VU meter and other visual features looked appealing... It also got fairly hot after being on for a while... I guess an expected side-effect because of the tube/valve...

[@aiyimaaudio8133]

Thank you for pointing out our problems, our products are always being optimised and updated welcome to point out other problems.

[@MrBenherrmann]

When we're talking audio gear - or listening in general - there are many descriptors that one can use when trying to explain what we're hearing. All in all, however, there are two categories to which all of our descriptors fall - tangible and intangible. Often-times, when audiophiles describe what they're hearing (and all of our ears are uniquely different), they (we) may go off on a tangent describing experiences that may not make sense to some. Tangibles are those descriptors that can be measured and easily referenced (i.e. frequency response, noise, etc). Intangibles, however, are not so easy to measure (and oftentimes they may be impossible), but they are easily heard by critical listeners. With intangibles, we hear descriptors such as: Depth... Sound-staging and imaging... Instrumental timbre... Air around the instruments... Musicality and immersiveness... Warmth (which is distortion - but it may be measured as distortion only) - but "warmth?" And many more... None of these can be measured and it is often between these two areas (tangibles and intangibles), that many arguments ensue. For example, in some cases, I find the warmth of "certain" tubed instruments to be just right, while in other cases, the warmth may be too great for me to really become immersed in the music. Yet if somebody tells me that they loved the tube sound of a particular component (that I may have found off-putting) who would I be to argue? I remember a long time ago, an audiologist told me at an ear examination that no two folks hear the same - in particular when it comes to areas such as music listening. He bases this on our ears and how they are formed. Anyway, I won't bore anyone with this. For example, there are two rather inexpensive tube integrated amplifiers on the market that are often overlooked because they've been out for awhile, yet have, what many who have used and heard them, distinct audiophile qualities. The first of these amps is the Fosi Audio T3 (a tube front end and yes, a class AB back end) - the link to Amazon US is here: www.amazon.com/Fosi-Audio-T3-Amplifier-Bluetooth/dp/B0B4W36C7B/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2GHZZUUQGVNIE&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qACQbjJHk-v-EkbPhRVB2XIuv_fMkHAlC-gZs5-FCK0rb9xAMvyV1j55EtzJ4SoWWdz5CvsCZ25pxMiAQ2MuolgJBndBdEtr6yaSdMd3S72YF_dpNncx98AU0IEXIXz8IxueywhUo4WEABGH03e07wJydY0kaZ6xtdviiWQ8khq_INOznwvm4PFd83a_VrtE.sYxdG_qTesOkz8mwJBUPQv61Rd0TanpEObU1EGjrpL4&dib_tag=se&keywords=fosi+T3&qid=1714674539&sprefix=fosi+t3%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1 I found this T3 (while tube rolling) to be strikingly warmer (well, it has a class AB amp) qualities with superb depth and airiness around the instruments. Now the next person may proclaim "hogwash." The other amp is also a tube front end and class AB back end, and it's the Nobsound (uses 4 unique Chinese tubes that can only be purchsed from them), but the sound (IMHO) is sublime. It is the Nobsound B100 and the Amazon US link is hereL www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Bluetooth-Amplifier-Integrated-Power/dp/B0BLXYBZZ5/ref=sr_1_5?crid=34ETR2JU8V2MO&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lvDdqqPMGj32n-IlNpiyy2i2t0zBZXbxaIatkrCD3Zyuon39g77mT7yprC72GOQNkEXZvCHANP75hcEeABntdPlVH2jKm93WaHC15M2BqrOVRqX9KUX0POp36ue1UCmCnxgkrQRwmpnbRCOLc7sgHk0Ypjz1dmLg4PckwvedWuB2vkRvx8191DjND69JLYDWMfx2YUwYZXpdZxPEBbZySaSbWjnieRYVQ1EExmJia0c.LKQix4RjbFYlUBryje2MI_aTqySIjgwVYXdAEgaFsyk&dib_tag=se&keywords=Nobsound+tube+amps&qid=1714674675&sprefix=nobsound+tube+amps%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-5

[@AudioMasterclass]

Your list most definitely applies in recording. There are so many variables they cannot all be quantified, and the possible combinations are beyond astronomical. This is why, although I put my faith in science, I accept that there may be variables in hi-fi that are beyond measurement. I did say 'may' there, but that's just my opinion, which people can accept or decline as they please.

[@MrBenherrmann]

@@AudioMasterclass Thanks - I appreciate that. I love your channel, I really do.

[@artysanmobile]

🤦🏽‍♂️

[@computerfreakch8912]

Peak-to-peak or zero-to-peak or RMS are not subject to opinion.

[@AudioMasterclass]

You say that, but when measuring the average power output of an amplifier (commonly called RMS), it's a matter of opinion how long the amp should be capable of sustaining it for.

[@carlsitler9071]

I thought warmth was a bumped low end.

[@chinmeysway]

i thought it was a subjective marketing term or vague adjective overused by audio ppl ? but true it’s supposed to be that too like w ribbon mics for example.

[@MichaelW.1980]

I personally consider warmth as distortion. I don’t like it. But that’s a matter of opinion or taste and as such nondebatable.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I'd disagree with that and say that matters of taste are endlessly debatable. The only problem is there's never a conclusion.

[@user-nt7wz5cd4h]

Tubes, really tubes? What kind of Englishman are you? LOL 🤣

[@AudioMasterclass]

There was a time, and it's not so long ago, that Americans couldn't accommodate UK English, so I had to use their words and grammar in my work. This has mostly changed but I'm still not quite sure that a dweller in the land of the bald eagle will know what a valve is.

[@user-nt7wz5cd4h]

@@AudioMasterclass Must have been my 6 months I spent in the land of the Queen, well King now, that I got used to English words and pronunciation. 😊

[@multicyclist]

QuantAsylum QA403 Audio Analyzer $595 Yankee dollars.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I fear that the Windows computer I'll have to use alongside of it will mess with my sanity.

[@multicyclist]

@@AudioMasterclassOh I did not think of that aspect. If a person is not a Windows user ir would not be useful for them.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I'm kidding, a bit. Clearly anyone who has a need for this equipment at this price point will equipment themself with whatever computer is necessary.

[@glencoad737]

first Ha!

[@AudioMasterclass]

Maybe the algorithm chose you first.

[@darnice1125]

Any Amp that uses a power brick should be ignored or thrown in garbage no matter how it sounds.

[@chinmeysway]

might be true but curious how you know. which ones have you tried that led you to be so sure?

[@darnice1125]

@@chinmeysway it's not a sound issue, it's he ugly brick issues. Looks terrible in stands or setup. You should not have to hide a large part of the system. Just build the power supply into the Amp. Anyone seeing 2x the cords plus a brick on the floor, it just looks like junk. Also, how much power does that brick consume when the Amp is off, because it's always powered on. When I consider equipment, I want to know all of it was designed by the company. They don't make the brick, so who knows what you bought.

[@maidsandmuses]

Many modern components have very low levels of harmonic and intermodulation distortion. Test equipment that can measure it tends to be rather expensive. One could argue that a "warm" sound is by definition not a "neural" sound and therefore implies some level of distortion (of some form or other, not necessarily IMD or THD). Even a non-flat frequency response can be considered distortion of spectral uniformity of gain.