Don't Say "Don't Say Gay"

[@ShortFatOtaku]

Streamin' tonite! We had a great turnout yesterday, please drop in again!

[@loopyloon5401]

When you described the sensation of being dysphoric, I couldn't help but notice how akin it was to dysmorphia & BIID. I honestly wonder why gender dysphoria gets treated so differently from these other conditions.

[@Edgelord-rn9he]

"Don't Say Gay" Bill? More like the Anti-Groomer Bill, Amirite?

[@darunealbane]

@18m45s the issue you mention .. same issues with eyes, hands, feet, ect which shows the whole T thing has some underlying brain issue

[@darunealbane]

@John Arch there is nothing you can buy that has not been GMOed .. even heritage seeds Carrots was not orange

[@ty2010]

Sounds like you didn't go down the CPalms rabbit hole

[@varkr2066]

I think a major issue is that kids will literally do ANYTHING that gives them positive reinforcement from someone with authority. You could raise a child to be an animal if you wanted to do it. Teachers will often "find" little things to latch on to and then reinforce it until it becomes bigger and bigger. If their teacher is a rainbow and AWLWAYS talks about it and then celebrates the uniqueness of it, of COURSE kids will adopt this. They want to be part of the in-group and receive formal reinforcement. Children like this are TOO YOUNG to understand it. I think most rainbow teachers think they're doing good and don't realise that they're actually grooming/major influencing them.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

You're way too generous to those teachers. They are groomers and know exactly what they're doing.

[@stefanyuwono1909]

The trans trend also indirectly attacks the lesbian and gay leaning people. It can be hard for young people to tell the difference between being gay or trans. Unfortunately being Trans necessitates undergoing body modifications, from hormones, puberty blocker to surgeries. Body modifications that can be very hard to reverse, should they realize they made the wrong decision. Douglas Murray discusses this quite thoroughly, explaining that in reality, the interest of lesbians, gays, bi, and trans don't match with each other, and sometimes even against each other.

[@Casual-Enthusiast]

@@GeraltofRivia22 agreed

[@pandatree66]

Not just children, adults look for positive reinforcement just as recklessly

[@badbuddha93]

No, they know **exactly** what they're doing. They can't or refuse to have kids of their own so they want to take yours. Every single step of this process is malicious and consious.

[@ECartmanist]

It's weird to think that Mr.Garrison from South Park acting ridiculously gay as a teacher went from a joke to reality

[@LordClydeofOMAR]

That's what I've been thinking this whole time.

[@canceroushumor460]

I remembered him trying to desperately get fired, but was just call "so brave", art imitating life and vice versa

[@allister-malister9179]

Oh that episode with the gerbil! I remember that one.

[@robertwallen1582]

The best episode

[@Corrderio]

There's so many things of that episode that became reality it's frightening.

[@fearthehoneybadger]

The bill just says no sexual instruction for children too young to even know what sex is.

[@1685Violin]

And it doesn't go far enough. The cap should be extended from third to 10th at least. Ideally, up to 12th grade. I'm refering to the LGBT agenda.

[@rwberger6]

And also you have to inform parents of any private meetings involving their kid. Thats the part that secretly terrifies them, the other is just a cover.

[@Impalingthorn]

Yup. 7 pages of literally "Keep sex talk away from children". Literally all the bill is; doesn't mention homosexuality ONCE.

[@dougneon9550]

@@1685Violin no if it were more extreme progs would easily get more footing just by pointing it out. They lose more than you think you just need to not always take the extreme approach

[@januarysson5633]

Funny that thirty years ago progs were pushing sex ed in the lower grades because they said it would give kids the ability to know if they were being sexually groomed. I remember this argument being made in like the 1990s.

[@slashbash1347]

11:02 Something people need to understand is that there's a difference between a kid confiding to a teacher and saying, "Please, don't tell my parents!" and a teacher saying, "Don't tell your parents about what we're doing."

[@bvoyelr]

More importantly, there are institutions in place to protect children from being beaten at home. You're not saving the kid by keeping secrets from his parents. If the kid is legitimately and verifiably at risk of abuse for stuff like this, call CPS.

[@radiowasted]

@@bvoyelr and that specific example is the reason the bill in question has an exemption. The bill specifically states that disclosure is not required if the school has reason to believe it will result in child abuse.

[@Ben-li9zb]

@@bvoyelr CPS unfortunately isn't very effective, I've talked to multiple teachers who've had a bad experience with them. Combine that with natural human empathy and you get people who try to help by doing what they can do in the moment, as there doesn't seem to be a long term option that's viable half the time

[@Xplora213]

@@Ben-li9zb cps sucks? TOO BAD. This is the foundational failure of authoritarianism. There is an authority that is tremendously powerful and invasive into the privacy of families of CITIZENS. Yet it’s still not enough? Blame the expectation that intervention is going to help, and that includes the teacher or school who thinks they can do it when CPS can’t. Too many authoritarians sticking their nose in, way outside their wisdom and training and abilities.

[@AspiringDevil]

Yes 100% the thing that has driven me crazy about this disscusion. That distinction is critical.

[@varkr2066]

It's weird to me how the community freaked out when told not to groom. It really was a freudian slip for them to turn this into the "don't say gay" bill. They literally think being gay is talking about sex with kids.

[@johnseppethe2nd2]

This is because activist movements have a large amount of opportunitists who want power over ignorant people. These activist movements and organisations are funded massively by billionaires and such so it's no surprise

[@traysutherland8491]

I don't think it's a good direction to call anyone who's not actually a groomer a groomer. It's like what they do with sexist, racist, xenophobic

[@SymmetricalDocking]

@@traysutherland8491 They actually meet the definition in this case, so it's a false equivalency. Still good to not overuse it.

[@Casual-Enthusiast]

@@traysutherland8491 the dilution of meaning has propagated for too long and permeated the culture, grinding meaning into pointless quips of vitriol. Sadly this will continue and although I agree with your sentiment, buzzwords are too pervasive in those without critical thinking, nor ability to articulate an opinion. A.k.a Twitter.

[@johnseppethe2nd2]

@@traysutherland8491 yeah its setting a bad precedent. The plus side is that more new words will be made up to better communicate people's thoughts

[@malygos9301]

There's no argument. There's 0 reason grown strangers should be talking to children especially under 10 about sexuality at all full stop.

[@realtalunkarku]

Yeah

[@saisameer8771]

Yep. At 10 I was still watching Beyblade and was engaging in intense debates about Dragoon vs dronzer.

[@ThatGastrodon]

How young are kids getting frisky, anyway? I can't imagine there are many who are getting up to stuff before 16.

[@drn000]

@@ThatGastrodon 14 is common for lighter stuff.

[@MALICEM12]

@@ThatGastrodon plenty get up to stuff before 16, most assuredly. But 10 is another story.

[@MRnofail]

Holy crap, I didn't have sex-ed till grade 7 and the protests appear to be over kids from Kindergarten to grade 3 not getting that education? That's beyond super tame, that's more "Progressive" than my Canadian elementary school was. What I find more concerning is that Floridian sex ed programs don't require talking about contraception, abstinence, sure thing, but knowing how the pill works or how to apply a condom are hugely important.

[@youngthinker1]

Most sex ed programs will focus more on STI and prevention of them, instead of abstinence. It gets to the point where everyone expects folks to have sex asap.

[@afgone]

It doesn't order it - it lets counties decide for themselves.

[@MrB00mbang]

Born in ‘93 and educated in Canada. We we’re taught to accept everybody and never talked about sex in class until grade seven.

[@chucklebouf5379]

They let people have different curriculum. I don't know how common abstinence only actually is, but I've never seen it. Every one I've seen says abstinence is the only way to be sure (duh) and here's some other things and usually some random gimmick about how those others things might not work to deemphasize how effective they are. And then on the contrary I've seen a lot that basically just tell kids to go have sex and how to offset any negative outcomes and don't mention the obvious idea that you could just not do that to avoid them entirely.

[@jarvisbinks7576]

I’m raising a 5 year old. That bill was a relief to me and my wife as we’ve been busting our humps to keep her in private school. We hope to keep her there but the peace of mind knowing the teachers can’t fill her head up with insane stuff at her age is absolutely priceless. Sexuality doesn’t even exist to her. She’s concerned with getting more play time, less bed time, and infinite candy. Is the law perfect? Of course not. But is it good enough? Seems so. I’m open to being proven wrong down the road, but as of now I can only be grateful the state isn’t trying to brainwash my baby in every way. To read these 20 something’s rant and rave when they don’t even want kids is pathetic. You don’t even know my child, you could never know what she needs to grow up happy and healthy. Not trying to ruffle feathers, just adding to the voices out here in internet world.

[@alecperdeau650]

Amen

[@MerlinTheCommenter]

👏👏👏👏👏

[@miffedcuttlefish6139]

Local education agencies are at liberty to discuss sex ed. You should STILL ask WHAT they teach in sex ed and is there an opt out dorm.

[@MALICEM12]

"the state isn't trying to brainwash my baby in every way" Oh but it is, you just won't always see it.

[@lainiwakura1776]

Try to keep her away from social media until she is an adult, it seems to be a plague unto mankind and children and teenagers do not have the mental capacity to deal with it.

[@jgrif7891]

TL;DR: they did it to themselves. You can thank the child exposure to nudity at pride parades, mass banning of dissenting opinions, and the gross disrespect for parents as the reasons why all this is happening. The community at large had 5ish years of being able to do almost whatever it wanted. What did it do? Be irreverent, childish, and petty. The LGBT community put itself on full display and now all the evidence is ripe for use by detractors. As far as, "I can't talk about being gay at work", maybe try NOT witch hunting people and getting people fired next time. The LGBT community had a chance to break the cycle of hate, and then they chucked 5 gallons of gas into the fire.

[@leandersearle5094]

Only five? I see someone's being generous today.

[@snipes503]

@@leandersearle5094 at this point the whole oil rig is on fire.

[@wmethshitlord3421]

Much of society is people creating their own problems then bitching about it.

[@NotSpecialDude]

This. So much this. The lgbt community truly has been its own greatest enemy. They outright refuse to self-police unless its to remove a conservative. The most recent example for me was the lastest GDC. One of the indie devs who went to the event did so despite testing positive. Qs a result, a huge outbreak of cases occured. But even so, every news station and Tv station refused to condemn or even NAME her.

[@frishter]

Exactly this. I grew up not caring about people's sexualities. It's frankly none of my business. However with how aggressive they've pushed their ideology that goes way beyond their sex lives and onto children, the activism part truly is despicable and I would support as many counters as we can possibly get. Obviously there are plenty of people in the community that aren't like that, however it is clearly a problem, and one that is actively encouraged and manipulative. Of course it didn't start with the community, it started with modern feminism who are ironically the ones that face the brunt on this culture.

[@eldestdragon5766]

2:12 This right here is why I find the word “Heteronormative” to be nonsense. Mother Nature herself is “heteronormative”. The vast majority of people are going to be straight and society is going to reflect that (and if this isn’t the case then that society won’t last many generations!!!) Not being normal doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you, but you shouldn’t be upset that a culture isn’t going to be predominantly structured around your rare identity.

[@realtalunkarku]

Himself , mother nature is a lie. Nature works so therefore

[@Nukestarmaster]

"Heteronormative" is literally a term used to gripe about reality.

[@eldestdragon5766]

@@Nukestarmaster The Crime of Being

[@Nukestarmaster]

@@eldestdragon5766 Basically.

[@nsanenbrane53]

Best to just embrace the label “heteronormative”.

[@SlayerOfTheDamned]

Stopping groomers from brainwashing innocent children into having a mental illness involving the child thinking they’re born in the wrong body sounds like a win to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@realtalunkarku]

Lilliths a fake lmao

[@loganredding1621]

Transgender is by definition not a mental illness. As said by the American psychological association, “A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder”

[@dagon99]

@UCwbZQqeMn_G5pAMlcU09IYA absolutely. Lost souls need guidance.

[@SlayerOfTheDamned]

@@realtalunkarkuHe’s real. But just like body builders and DID patients, what they think isn’t what’s actually based on reality. Amputating body parts and taking harmful hormones your body was never built to handle is bad for your health

[@yarlodek5842]

@@SlayerOfTheDamned Say this one louder for the fat otaku in the back.

[@bvoyelr]

What's funny through all this is the fact that very little is being outlawed (notwithstanding prohibitions against transitioning). They're just being prohibited in schools. If you want your kids to know about all that stuff, you're free to tell them. As far as the aforementioned prohibitions, they're unfortunately a necessary stopgap at this point. As you mentioned, there are too many "transtrenders" and FAR too many activists who railroad confused children into permanently damaging their body with nothing even approaching informed consent. These kids have no idea what they're getting into. PS: A petty part of me wants to tell the screeching activists that this is what you get for increasingly conjoining healthcare and government intervention. As a taxpayer who funds this stuff, I have a say in how that money is spent. And if I don't want your kid transitioning until the age of 25, doesn't matter whether I'm right: I get a vote, too.

[@DarkysLPs]

Performing life altering surgery or treatment to anyone below the age of 18 is just absurd. Teenagers, or kids can't really grasp the concept of that. It's child abuse, plain and simple.

[@realtalunkarku]

Correct

[@keithfilibeck2390]

despite how absurd it is, the momentum on this issue is fully on their side, they even have Joe fucking Biden, a man who clearly doesn't believe any of this, but will bark when commanded, his full throated support for trans kids and their surgeries, THAT is where we are.

[@ImTakingYouToFlavorTown]

the greatest argument I have seen against stuff like this is the show "I am Jazz" the poor kid was on blockers from a young age so when they went to grant him the abomination below his waist they didn't have enough material since he never grew into a full sized member, so they had to take skin and flesh from the legs to make it work, and then the stitches were so tight because they were working with so little that it basically fell off on the way out of the hospital, you can see doctors ARGUE DURING A SURGERY BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS SCAR TISSUE AND THEY AREN'T SURE WHICH WAY THEY SHOULD CUT.

[@dorugoramon0518]

Genital mutilation period is absurd. If a guy comes to you saying his arm is an alien parasite and wants it cut off, would you humor him and agree with him?

[@DarkysLPs]

@@dorugoramon0518 There are legit trans people out there. My point is just that they need to grow up and figure themselves out before they do something life altering. Also when it comes to genital mutilation how about circumcision? It's a topic that gets overlooked a lot and I think it should be brought up a lot more.

[@NekoBoyOfficial]

Like usual, the media ignores the plurality of gay people who support this bill. There's no reason to teach lgbt before puberty.

[@nsanenbrane53]

They would just call us uncle toms anyways.

[@lesthodson2802]

There's no reason to teach about sex at all before puberty, gay or straight. Period.

[@QueenAleenaFan]

Bisexual here...fuck the groomers that call this don't say gay.

[@roguewasbanned4746]

Exactly

[@roguewasbanned4746]

@@lesthodson2802 this

[@live4hockey2]

For those of us old enough to remember, there was a classic South Park episode called "Proper Condom Use". At the end, Chef, being the voice of reason says something along the lines of, "Parents, I know talking to your kids about sex is hard, but if you don't you don't know who they're learning it from. It could be someone with a bad opinion (Ms. Choksondik), someone who doesn't know (Mr. Mackey), or even a complete pervert (Mr. Garrison)." Back then it was considered satire. Now its reality.

[@mikecampos1193]

He literally was the voice of reason I feel bad for the voice actor had a falling out between the creators but at least that episode was like one of those life lessons very good one.

[@marlom7882]

So many things from that series was satire and not taken seriously then but is reality now Have we devolved as a society?

[@prathia8699]

As someone who has struggled with feelings of apprehension and at times outright disgust with my sexual reality. I am very thankful that I had no one telling me to transition or even present in a way that "gendered". It has been a struggle but now as I have nearly reached my 30's I am much happier in my body defining myself not as what I wish to be but what I am. My outlook on gender/sex has had to conform to function and if I had these teachers breathing down my neck and convincing me to destroy my ability to procreate, I would likely not be here today. Looking forward to the future and perhaps seeing myself with a spouse and children that we made together. This hope gives me a purpose in life, that even if I don't amount to something great, I may bring something worth cherishing into this world.

[@silvermknight]

You aren't alone in this thought. People often ask about "what about Trans children" without thinking that same child would not be Trans if left to their own devises.

[@charlesk22]

@@silvermknight we've tried to say this and are getting bullied. The only thing to do is strengthen familial bonds and forget everything and everyone else, even migrate abroad. I think we sadly need to see the negative consequences hit society so bad, there's a correction.

[@chucklebouf5379]

@@silvermknight The vast majority grow out of it once the hormones kick in and then it makes sense to them what they are. Some still have dysphoria into adulthood but it's a tiny minority. And even in that case I question the logic of validating something that is biologically untrue instead of trying methods to make the mutable part of themselves, i.e. their perception match something that actually exists.

[@tumamaencosplay]

Let me copy paste my reply as it is VERY in topic with yours "The limit to transition at 25 yo is BS" Eh no, it isn't, at least not as a medical procedure, there are studies (frequently cited by the right) that show that if you only provide conventional therapy, aka, just talking to a specialist, one designed towards acceptance of ones body, gender dysphoria can dissapear at around 18-25yo for 90% of sufferers of gender dysphoria. If you give them hormones and surgery, not a single one ever stops having gender dysphoria. So, even if the adult desires this treatment, at a medical level, in other words, as a means to treat the dysphoria, hormones and surgery should not be provided until 25yo, AND after having received normal sex affirming therapy. Now if someone wants to cuts their genitals exclusively for aesthetic reasons, not to treat a dysphoria, like say, why contrapoints transitioned (I dunno if he did surgery or whatever, just pointing out a dysphoria-less tr4ns), then they are welcom to do so as the adult they are. That's what I consider the objetive truth as of now. On a more opinion side of things, I believe actually, only people without dysphoria should ever transition, because they chose that with suposedly, a sound mind, it was their decision as a sane adult. But people with dysphoria, regardless of what they say in public, keep suffering from dysphoria, depression, and all related symptoms, but as they have a vested interest on denying this suffering because they have messed up their bodies with promises of mental peace, they have to convince themselves it did SOMETHING positive. In general, I believe transition is something that should be banned as a medical procedure, so we can focus on actually looking for different solutions to actually CURE those 10% left that keep suffering after receiving sex-affirming therapy, and the current alphabet lobby is preventing science from further researching into this. But as I said before, I've got no issue with a sane adult -one not being coerced by a mistreated mental illness- choosing to transition.

[@Ahabite]

"There is no way a trans kid will learn about transgenderism if it isn't taught in schools!"...or, you know, they'll just literally go anywhere else in society to learn all about it.

[@juuchanIRL]

why does a 6 year old need to know about transgenderism, though.

[@simpleplan100687]

If that’s the argument, then doesn’t that mean transgenderism isn’t natural? Just like racism. Nobody is born racist, they’re raised with it. So now it begs the question. are kids born trans, or are they taught to be trans?

[@juuchanIRL]

@@simpleplan100687 you can answer this yourself: how many people identified as trans pre 2007? and no, people werent brainwashed into NOT being trans.

[@UniqueBreakfastTaco]

or theyll do like normal kids born to mentally stable parents and seek to play and have fun.

[@Ahabite]

@@juuchanIRL They do not.

[@de_dustybones]

I'm absolutely done being sympathetic and contributing to peoples delusions.

[@mushyroom9569]

Yeah, there is no acceptable pro-trans position here. Lilith and dev should both be ashamed.

[@ImortalZeus13]

@@mushyroom9569 So there's no feasiblely correct way to support people with gender dyaphoria, and want to transition?

[@pcarnold9]

@@ImortalZeus13 send them tO camps North Dakota to farm potatoes and lentils

[@oahtobar1355]

@@ImortalZeus13 to quote someone else from this very same comment section "Disphoria is a broad class of psychological disorders, but only one type of disphoria is "treated" with hormones and invasive surgery instead of therapy. If a man goes to his doctor claiming that his arm shouldn't be a part of him, he gets counseling to accept his arm. But if it's his penis that he has a problem with, it gets chopped off. "

[@yarlodek5842]

Dev moment when “born trans”

[@wroseyarn1430]

Yeh... lillith got this one wrong, too

[@realtalunkarku]

As per usual

[@weridplusho]

Lillith is one of the worst people to talk about trans science. Thinks puberty blockers should be mandatory (ignoring all the issues) simply because she's forever butthurt with her daddy issues at being stopped from having them.

[@dorugoramon0518]

@Sean And named himself after a demon. Maybe it was a freudian slip.

[@tumamaencosplay]

I listened to this whiles playing dead cells, at which minute mark did Dev explain his position?

[@yosiyyahu.bar.stephen]

@@tumamaencosplayHe kinda peppers it in all over the place.

[@jesscornelius2481]

Schools shouldn’t impose social values on children their parents don’t approve of. That’s all that needs to be said.

[@commoncure3335]

what if your parents are morally corrupt in some way

[@afgone]

@@commoncure3335 Who decides who's morally corrupt? In the eyes of the left - the right is morally corrupt, and vice-versa.

[@Andre-tc9sb]

@@commoncure3335 define morally corrupt tho. Who decides what's morally corrupt? Oh you mean the post modern, marxist, grooming teachers? yeah, i don't think so.

[@commoncure3335]

@@ChaosSwissroIl wtf is a degen lol

[@tarektechmarine8209]

@@commoncure3335 and the government and school and teacher aren't infallible???

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

This entire thing is bizarre to me, because when I was in school we didn’t know a single thing about our teachers, a lot of them we barely knew their first names, we called them all “Mr Xxxx” or “Miss Xxxx”, we didn’t know if they were married, had partners, had kids, or anything whatsoever about their lives. The fact that some of these teachers want to talk to their students about their partners & their hobbies is insane to me.

[@grimoireweiss5203]

It's normal to know nothing and it's normal to know something about them. I never heard any of the teachers speaking about politics or this woke stuff when I was in school. There were days when we all could chill and just spoke to a teacher. We had nice conversations and you could clearly feel that stories were genuine. Of course nothing insanely personal was mentioned. Now you see weirdos trying to manipulate kids into having these conversations and later filming themselves pretending it's the kids who wanted to know. Few days ago Tim Pool released a podcast w/Helena Kerschner. She told her story on how she tried to become a boy and how easy it was to do. She even was given 4x more medicine then she should have gotten. Certain procedures will make a person infertile. I already heard a lot of shit in my life about this but it just never stops. The consequences are insane and it's no wonder parents don't want this to be fed to their kids. It's insane how they can not inform parents at all and just send kids to transition is silence.

[@tumamaencosplay]

The most i ever knew about any teachers from kindergarden throughout highschool, was that one liked to travel, 2 had kids, and one liked to rant about current politics, that's it.

[@juandiegotorres9632]

What i find most interesting about the trans experience you describe Is that the LGBT activists think there's nothing wrong with those people despite those people telling you THEMSELVES that they felt something was wrong. I can understand them feeling disgust with their bodies but i think that's where we need to begin helping them, not telling them that having those feelings makes them "stunning and brave" or that mutilation or hormone blockers are the best options. Maybe I'm wrong though. Ultimately they can do what they want, but don't go complaining to me about how i don't accept you when you can't even accept yourself.

[@Nukestarmaster]

Disphoria is a broad class of psychological disorders, but only one type of disphoria is "treated" with hormones and invasive surgery instead of therapy. If a man goes to his doctor claiming that his arm shouldn't be a part of him, he gets counseling to accept his arm. But if it's his penis that he has a problem with, it gets chopped off.

[@juandiegotorres9632]

@@Nukestarmaster truly the greatest irony in the world. There must be another solution. And i mean that seriously.

[@Nukestarmaster]

@@juandiegotorres9632 Therapy, you can get people to accept who they are. It's not easy, but it often works.

[@sirazazeloflowkey6424]

@@Nukestarmaster Sadly true. Same about identifying as something or someone you are not is also only met with "Stunning and Brave" if it has to do with your gender. If you think you are of a different race, have a disease or disability you don't have or think you are Napoleon, you don't get laws forcing others to agree with your dillusions. You get therapy to help you accept reality.

[@pauloricardo-wn6ps]

no one serious on the LGBT community is asking for acceptance, just respect

[@intigeral727]

The older I get, the more I want federal and state governments to keep out of the affairs of local government.

[@cinemint]

I'm still not convinced that people are trans from birth. I have gender dysphoria and I have friends who have it as well, and it seems to me like it's a bundle of lots of smaller issues in a trench coat. I feel like lumping the 'trans experience' together as a single unit and associating all of those traits as something that exists since birth might be untrue, but it something that's used to bring some narrative cohesion to the confusing emotions. I've done a lot of research on the topic over the years, I've written papers on it too, and that's the best conclusion I can come up with.

[@johnduquette7023]

While I'm open to gender dysphoria from birth maybe being a thing from the development of one-sexed brain developing in an opposite-sexed body because of prenatal hormone issues, that's also obviously not the bulk of these situations. Your assessment sounds like it more accurately describes reality.

[@ramohnfisher3654]

I've been thinking about how to build an experiment that looks for this honestly. I think that there's clearly a scale of 'dysphoria' but we're too sensitive to it right now and we're catching people that don't need heavy medical assistance. But quantifying the scale and then determining what exactly people need at which points has been eluding me.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

you can get gender dysphoria from birth if you're unlucky enough, just like any other illness that doesn't involve external pathogens. those cases are always rare though.

[@cinemint]

@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz When I'm arguing is that I haven't seen enough evidence, both anecdotally and in studies I've researched, to support that gender dysphoria is a uniform condition. It seems like multiple, grouped conditions that are associated with each other for narrative reasons. It seems like a lot of the discussion is more about "believing that X is Y makes me feel better about myself" than whether or not X is actually Y. I want to know the truth about the situation because I believe that relying on facts is always better in the long run. We'll see how this goes, I guess. A big part of this is that I don't see any good reason for the presence of particular hormones in the brain during development, in isolation to the rest of the body, would result in dysphoria for the rest of the body. It doesn't make sense that estrogen 'makes' you feel uncomfortable in a male body. In fact, many men who've developed low testosterone and high estrogen count in blood due to age or other conditions feel uncomfortable that their bodies appear to be becoming more feminine, even though this theory suggests that it should be resulting in the opposite effect. The conclusion I've come to is this: > having hormonal imbalances in the brain > having childhood trauma regarding sex > having body image issues > having hormonal problems outside the brain > being socially pressured into beliefs > wanting a sense of community > wanting to shock your parents At least several of these things are present within people who identify as trans, but not all of them at once (usually). These are not the same issue, and they don't come from the same place. It doesn't make sense that any collection of these should be grouped, UNLESS you have a ulterior motive to do so.

[@miniondaechir]

@@cinemint I like your analysis. It is very good.

[@bvoyelr]

Now hold on a second there. I never knew anything about any teachers' personal lives, and I even went to a small, tight knit private school for several years where some of my teachers were distant family members. Still never came up in class. Honestly, this is part of it. It's all great for teachers to cultivate a good relationship with the children in their care, but that doesn't (and I submit, shouldn't) involve a teacher divulging details of their personal lives with the students.

[@rwberger6]

Only thing I knew about my favorite teacher is he had a personal hangup about being named "Kermit" because he got teased about it a lot growing up. And he said it to head off questions about if he was named after the frog muppet when he introduced himself.

[@ImortalZeus13]

Regardless of whether or not teachers need to divulge personal info, it should not be a crime or a fireable offense for a gay teacher to mention who they are married to. I had teachers in school who shared pictures of their family all the time. Gay teachers should not have special conditions placed upon them.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

@@ImortalZeus13 that's not classroom instruction so it's not banned.

[@ImortalZeus13]

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD And yet at least one teacher has been fired for it.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

@@ImortalZeus13 Due to the law or school decision?

[@FarelForever]

I won't ever understand this. Before puberty kicked in, I didn't have any grasp of what sexuality or gender were. I was so clueless that I thought that something like a gay man and a lesbian being together could work. Only when things started to kick in, did I grasp the concept, and even then I was in the closet until 2019, when I was in my early 30s. I saw it a journey of self-discovery, and gaining maturity. Why is it that I could have gone through all of that , and came out a better person for it, not upsetting anyone in the process with it, but very young modern children who stick marbles into their noses have to bombarded with this junk, even if it'll make plenty of people angry???

[@Selrisitai]

@@Ultrox007 Gender has always been a synonym for sex. Only recently has it been misappropriated and the definition insidiously altered in order to confuse a very simple issue. Gender is _not_ your outward portrayal of femininity or masculinity. It refers to your chromosomes and sexual organs just as the word "sex" does. From Webster's, 1828 edition: "2. A sex, male or female. Hence, "

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

@@Selrisitai Damn, you got destroyer.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

the bad parents complaining against gay teachers case falls out of the bill's changes though, the thing reads "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3" **Classroom Instruction**, a teacher talking about their partner isn't instruction by any definition on any dictionary. I'd say that argument against the bill is null and void.

[@gothicpando]

I'm not sure it goes far enough.

[@UniqueBreakfastTaco]

why are teachers not talking about instruction....when being paid to talk about instruction?

[@femsplainer]

Except everything a teacher does in the classroom is technically instruction. There is no "casual conversation" between teacher and student, due to the nature of a classroom being a place of learning. So if a kid sees a photo of the teacher and his husband on the desk and asks about it, the teacher is literally providing classroom instruction to that child about the nature of his gay relationship with another man.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@femsplainer "but if you use MY definition" -retarded leftists and rightists.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@UniqueBreakfastTaco fair but that's a different issue.

[@Dionaea_floridensis]

"kids who are legitimately trans" Hmmmm

[@Dionaea_floridensis]

@@ChaosSwissroIl Children are very easily swayed by their older peers. I wish we could live in Neverland and just let kids be kids, but nay, even the little ones must be used as pawns

[@frosty848]

"Trans kids are like vegan cats. We all know made the decisions."

[@kostasbiker9302]

All of them, all 0 of them.

[@S.D.323]

Are you saying gender dysphoria is not real

[@BigFry9591]

The bill states how old the kids are. The bill states "kindergarten through 3rd grade". Sex should not be taught at that age. That is why the language is the way that it is. "What if the powers that be are all a bunch of pearl-clutching Christian moms who don't want their 17 year olds to be taught about the existence of sex"? It's not about 17 year olds, as I stated (and as stated in the bill). It clearly states the age range that the bill encompasses.

[@frosty848]

stupid argument to bring up on his part.

[@AtrusOranis]

My idea of "Age appropriate Sex-ed class" This is Reproduction. You have Mitosis and Meiosis. *Continues to have frank, boring biology lesson" This is puberty. You have a gland called the Adrenal gland. *continues to have frank, boring biology lesson about changes* These are contraceptive methods, This is how they work. No where in there is anything about sexuality. No where in there is anything about gender identity. Simple. Biological. Facts. If the student has questions about either of those topics, they should 1) ask their parents or (if for some reason you think that such would lead to hostility) have a meeting between the child, the teacher, the student consoler, and the parents.

[@thecompareablezombie]

Biology is fun to learn

[@Nukestarmaster]

Add a bit about STDs and it's perfect.

[@AtrusOranis]

@@Nukestarmaster Your right. "This is what diseases you can get if you are stupid. This is what can happen if you get them." *Continues to have disgusting biology lesson*

[@Ashigeru47]

If a child is confused about their own sexuality, the last thing they need is activist teachers telling them what their sexuality is. Teachers are not trained for medical, or psychological diagnosis. Psychological professionals are trained. These activist teachers take it upon themselves to instruct and groom children, even at the age of 4, into their gender ideological theories, that they are in no way qualified to diagnose, or offer any help to anyone. But, they believe they should.

[@valiantparagonvideos2383]

"There absolutely ARE kids who are trans from birth" Citation needed.

[@kostasbiker9302]

He doesn't have any, there aren't any, it just to keep the fence sitting.

[@johnseppethe2nd2]

Cases where gender dysphoria symptoms is identified from a young age from adulthood to the point that we know it is nothing else but gender dysphoria. The issue is that those symptoms in children and teenagers can be confused for other things and that can be very dangerous in the end. (See the r/detrans people for example) This is part of why minors should not be given surgeries and pills in this regard at all (the other reason is that it undermines consent). They ought to wait until adulthood until they do any of that. At least this is my opinion. This is what the stance i have formulated. Please correct me on any inaccuracies though.

[@Bopperann]

There's a Blue's Clues episode celebrating Pride Parades and children that participate in them. These groomers know what they are doing is wrong, yet they are outraged anyone would dare oppose them.

[@AtrusOranis]

IIRC, the last float had an... "Interesting" color scheme. The kind that makes me want to buy a Thin Blue Line flag.

[@dorugoramon0518]

@@AtrusOranis Unfortunately the thin blue line exists to protect groomers from justice at this point.

[@phoenixdouchebag904]

As someone who grew up with Blue's Clues in the 2000s, this hurt to hear.

[@highbahamut6188]

@@dorugoramon0518 that's why i support lynching over law enforsement.

[@highbahamut6188]

@@dorugoramon0518 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3uofGqjjtiJpdU this is an map that was stoned by his neighbors

[@psyxypher3881]

I also have to respectfully and vehemently disagree with your assertion of "Trans kids". I don't think ANY child should be given any form of transition. They need to make that decision as an adult and only as an adult.

[@afgone]

It's also a case of "Is there something else going on?" It could be the result of something else - in which case treating them as "trans" could be a big mistake.

[@number420pencil]

Thank goodness doctors and the medical community disagrees.

[@Insulted25]

If trans stuff was simply a medical issue I would agree with you, but it isnt anymore and you know it.

[@psyxypher3881]

@@Insulted25 I'm not really convinced that it's not entirely an issue of mental health.

[@AtrusOranis]

The only thing I have mixed feelings about is the "social transition" thing. If a kid wants to wear "gender different" clothing, I might want to have a talk with them first, to figure out why, maybe warn them that they might be teased at school, but otherwise I don't see an intrinsically terrible thing about it. that said, I also see how such might have been true in the past, when such was not considered something to marvel at and be given special treatment.

[@JackOBlades0801]

I learned sex ed as a kid in fourth grade. I can definitely say I was NOT mature enough at that age. Kept giggling and cracking jokes to my friends. Got a dirty look from a teacher. That's my only take.

[@ImTakingYouToFlavorTown]

lol, I was at a daycamp as a kid and a teacher came to tell us about flower reproduction and I started giggling about it, she was PISSED.

[@IceQueen975]

Meanwhile I was traumatized. It was horrible.

[@Andrewking-cu4yb]

In 7th grade it was the same for me

[@selinnazsur2328]

I really wanted to leave a reply telling about my experience but YT isn't co-operating with me it seems :/ I'll try censoring it so the algorithm doesn't go off foaming at the mouth... We technically don't have s3x ed in my country, we just get a conference with two teachers, one for boys and one for girls, explaining to us what pub3rty is. That might not apply to every school however, I have a suspicion that it doesn't. We first learned about repr0duction in either 6th or 7th grade bi0logy class and even the super scientific images in the textbook depicting the repr0duction organs were sc4ndalous to us. I can't imagine any child being mature about this at all.

[@Cheroobian]

That’s even worse considering I learned in 5th grade.

[@TheAurgelmir]

As always the extremists ruined the discourse for the people who really needed it. Up until the turn of the last decade "Transsexuals" as they were called then was: Something people accepted existed, and probably thought was weird, but ultimately had no problem with people who genuinely needed transitioning in order to live a decent life. But just like with abortion, and also racism, the leftist extremists were allowed to take it too far. Normal people begin to resist, they are scared, so they would rather have the conservative position, than the insanity. I know "Slippery Slope" is considered a fallacy, but seeing how quickly the far left goes from crazy to insane I think it's a valid argument. We know they are already priming the conversation for child diddling. And then there's the whole "Better to have sex with your dog than with a beta male" crowd. So yeah, place you bets on what the progressives think of next. I miss the 90s, the world was honestly really liberal in the 90s... it was great.

[@NeroBlackheart666]

Slippery slope is a fallacy when a chain of events that is unconnected is used as basis for furthering your nonexistent point. If we let children drink milk then obviously war will break out, forexample. A chain of related events building off of eachother, without any external unknown factors, however is not a fallacy, its logic. If you eat lots of food (and you don't have some issue, you arent constantly physically active or have worms or whatever) then you will get fat. Unrelated to this comment, I think both sides of the issue are kinda wrong and the truth is something I think most people know but don't want to accept, namely that children's sexuality and development is not the teachers' issue, or the parents' because ultimately its the child's and puberty and its development are the first steps of the child detaching from their parents and becoming their own person. This is inevitable and natural and to try to retard or manipulate it is basically well meaning abuse by parents, and teachers should have absolutely no say in it whatsoever in either way. Your kids are not your property, they are your responsibility, thats not the same thing, and the state should have the most minimal say in this matter aside from recognizing and persecuting criminal behaviour. A parent not teaching their toddler about transsexuality is not abuse, but forexample rape is. A teacher can be abusive too, apply laws to both equally. The best you can do is give access to information -when its wanted- and hope your kid has enough good sense to ask if something is still cloudy. You might say that kids are dumb and don't know what they're doing but that's entirely the point, no-one got an adulthood degree and you are not that different then you were a kid, just more gnarly and tattered by the years. Kids learn more from peers then from authority figures anyway. Apply some some societal triage to the matter and accept that not everyone is going to make it, then provide help for people to help themselves without infringing on the rights of the teachers, parents and the children. As for the actual ages proposed, I have nieces whom are starting elementary school and they have problems with articulation and hand-eye dexterity. I highly doubt they need sexual education when they can't even talk properly, or if it would have any use even if you eat the progressive talking points 1:1. I could rant more about why this issue is most likely an unsolvable and permanent roadblock for humanity because of the underlying factor of this being one of the brushes with mortality that everyone gets naturally distorting people's reason (tl;dr between innocent child and grown adult is a parent's realization that they are not young and will eventually die) but I dont want to write a book on youtube, they'd steal the rights for it.

[@TheAurgelmir]

@@NeroBlackheart666 Of course, and if you notice the debate both sides actually agree with you, the disagreement is in who shall have the final say in when "access to information" happens. In a normal, not far-left or far-right, world. Most people have no problem accepting that children are told "some men like men, and that's okay" Heck, "People who like to dress up, or be another gender exists, and that's okay" (Drag shows has been around for ages, I think it was shown on TV here when I was really young). The issue is the "all or nothing" extremes. The "abstinence only, don't say gay" people, and the "If we don't say gay in every sentence we are killing gay people" side on the other. My point still stands: Ultimately it's the parents job to raise the child, not the state. Of course progressives hate liberals, and hate leaving things up to "others" The same is true for the traditionalists. But, just like in business and everything else in lifte: The least harm is done if you outsource responsibility across as many stakeholders as possible. Because if one fail, the rest can step in and correct it. Bottom up is better than top down when it comes

[@jcarroll7371]

I don't see how not allowing teacher's to groom kids has any personal impact on your friends life. And im willing to bet your trans friend doesn't actually have kids but is just being selfish af.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

They want other peoples children because they can't have their own and adults are mostly to smart to fall for the rubbish they teach.

[@wtice4632]

This right here

[@dorugoramon0518]

I mean its entire identity is rooted in attention seeking to the degree that it is willing to mutilate itself and forever remove its ability to sire offspring. Selfish is a bit of an understatement.

[@AlphaBiggitz]

First time I've disagreed with you. A trans kid is like a vegan cat, you know who's making the decisions. People need to start keeping their personal lives out of their professions, much like corporations need to stop trying to be activists for profit.

[@jht3fougifh393]

I actually think the transition healthcare stuff makes sense. If you go by people's subjective claims, transition helps, but if you go by actual objective measures, it doesn't seem to. They are still having to take just as many meds for their mental health stuff (implying their anxiety was not a symptom of dysphoria, but potentially a cause, or simply a general correlation), and still attempting suicide a horrifying amount compared to the general population (so even if, in questionnaires, they say they're all better, if you look at actual hospital admissions - again, real and verifiable data - they simply aren't). It's also worth noting that it is way too easy to start the process, and that the doctors behind these things don't care much at all about aftercare. An easy Google search will afford you many, many examples of them shrugging their shoulders when people run into complications. It's a very low standard of care for a very vunerable population. I know someone who had top surgery and was on T for ten years. She has since rejected the concept of gender and ideology behind it, even if she still feels dysphoria, and is doing notably better by being less rigid, less ideological, and adopting a more stoic, less neurotic standard of being... along with actually staying on meds and getting out of the heavily insulated bubble they were in for so long. A lot of it has to do with personality disorders and anxiety. This same person had severe ocd and is bipolar. It's all very interwoven and we know much less about it than many would have you believe. The idea that the current activist "solution" helps people is not supported by legitimate science, unfortunately. It's very experimental, and I would argue harmful. To each their own, but it is what it is.

[@Nukestarmaster]

There's the old maxim "don't fix what isn't broken". When someone has disphoria, their body is not the part that is unhealthy.

[@MmeCShadow]

Appreciate you going over the body of the bill and not just fixating on the single line. As a Florida resident, the other day I saw a letter to the editor from a woman in Punta Gorda about how terrible our governor is, and one of the points that struck out to me was how, apparently, his tyrannical rule means that a nebulous 'we' have lost the right to teach 'our' children about homosexuality. The wording on this (really the entire letter) was ludicrous, but this in particular has been sticking with me and I've finally realized why. She wanted the 'right' for teachers to teach all the kids about homosexuality. Not just her hypothetical children, but everybody's. Teachers have a 'right' to teach everybody's children about gender ideology and homosexual sex (this was specifically what she referred to, just to be clear), which means that no parents have any right to decide that they don't want their young children exposed to that. And the kids obviously can't opt out of it themselves because they're five and they don't know what any of this even means. So the point was not just the 'right to teach kids about homosexuality' (nobody is stopping you from teaching your kids about that in the comfort of your own home), the point was that nobody has any right to NOT have their kids exposed to that. Nobody else has ANY choice in the matter. That's not just about letting kids learn about the topic, it's about forcing everybody's kids to learn about the topic and denying everybody else the freedom of choice.

[@afgone]

The "right" to force other people to follow your commands - the left's favorite "right."

[@dawnmccarthy1]

Nobody has the right to tell other people's children whose pants they want into. here's a little tip. If they're young enough to identify as egg salad, or scream "IT'S NOT A PHASE MOM" because they want to use a litter box at school, stay outta their pants.

[@PoofyKittyPants]

"At 25 the State should close it's mouth about what you want to do with your body." Yeah, that's what they said.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

and before 25.

[@PoofyKittyPants]

@@ShortFatOtaku That's a discussion I could take either side of and I'm not sure which way I would be persuaded. It is pretty widely claimed by researchers that the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed in males until the age of 25, on average. I have seen data that suggests it matures fully in females earlier, but it's still not ready at 18. This is further supported by Car Rental Agencies not renting cars to people under 25 years old, one would assume, because their data shows a pattern of people under 25 getting into more accidents, possibly because they take more risks, the thing the prefrontal cortex mediates. It may be possible that a person at the age of 22 would be willing to take a risk - that is to say, be convinced that an action with possibly very serious and deleterious consequences, is the correct action - that the same person would not take at the age of 26. This is not to say that a blanket ban is a great strategy, but some consideration should be taken to protect immature people from rash and permanent decisions since that idea, in the abstract, is and has been government policy since the inception of the American system. Personally I wouldn't vote for a blanket ban before 25 (medical guidelines requiring a thorough psychological evaluation before the age of 25 would be as far as I would go, but I don't think that is necessary in many cases) but I believe the people of a State should be able to if they see fit. TL;DR I'm not saying it should be done, but I can understand why some people would ban transitions before the age of 25, and why it would have a basis in law, if only tenuously.

[@kostasbiker9302]

@@ShortFatOtaku Oh they can do whatever they want with their bodies, provided they have the money to do it.

[@johnduquette7023]

As per Rekieta, the legal definition of a "reasonable person" is whatever you can convince a judge or jury is a "reasonable person." That's it. Not that difficult.

[@SupersaiyanChristian]

Isn't it subjective though? That's a problem. Leftist teachers think what they are doing is "reasonable". The right views what it is doing is "reasonable". It's not specific enough and can be problematic

[@ShortFatOtaku]

there's no other way it could be though.

[@johnduquette7023]

@@SupersaiyanChristian It _is_ subjective. That's unavoidable. The determination is made either by a judge or by a jury, in deference to the "common sense" of the subject (a term misused by people to mean "the obvious" instead of "the commonly-shared perception of reality"). Any legal system built on the sovereignty of a free people needs must be based on the "common sense," as interpreted by a judge (appointed or elected), or by a jury of peers. This is why we have division of government across municipalities, counties, and states. The common sensibility of Louisiana is not going to be the same common sensibility as Washington State, and the common sensibility of Buffalo is not going to be the same as New York City. This is a condition of governing humans and not machines.

[@Snakedude4life]

Attention parental unit of student, The student that is associated with you has chosen to identify as [Mermaid]; As per California laws, we have already gave your charge the necessary drugs and reassignment surgery to achieve their new identity. You are now required by law to respect the students new identity as [mermaid]. 🎩 🐍no step on Snek! 🇺🇸🇭🇰

[@juanmejiagomez5514]

I sexually identify as an attack Tyroncopter

[@flamestoyershadowkill]

I identify as the god emperor of man kind

[@robertstan9733]

I sexually identify as Greg

[@victordavila9812]

I work as a teacher and I talk so little about my personal life with my students that I doubt they know if I m gay or straight and guess what that is not a bad thing that means that we are only talking about their education

[@AntonioCunningham]

Sorry Dev, but they've not wrong about people brains not being fully developed by 25. Remember the number 18 was picked arbitrarily. It's why there are laws preventing under 21 years old of drinking despite them being an adult.

[@Ladondorf]

Do you think the age of consent or drinking should be raised to 25 then? Whether or not the brain actually stops developing at 25 is irrelevant since we don't determine other coming-of-age laws on that basis. Either way, it's irrelevant because transition is not a personal choice like getting a tattoo, it's a medical necessity, at least for people who actually are trans, of course. It's a shame that the leftists keep insisting that "gender is a social construct" because in doing so, they are obscuring this fact and undermining trans people in the process.

[@AntonioCunningham]

@@Ladondorf I don't have a position on lowing or rasing the age for any laws.... At least not at this point. My point it that we DO make laws concerning age above 18.

[@xenn4985]

@@ilikecatsandstuff1 That argument doesn't really hold water when the topic at hand is them being underage. An explicitly sexual procedure being performed on children is simply indefensible. So much as playing devils advocate for these monsters is insanity. Idk what dev is smoking right now.

[@femsplainer]

@@ilikecatsandstuff1 While it may be true that you can "pass" easier if you don't go through male puberty, that is not a valid reason to give kids puberty blockers. First off, puberty blockers, gender "reassignment" surgery, HRT, etc are all invalid treatments for the disease. You don't give liposuction to an anorexic for the exact same reason. Second, the vast majority of kids who are gender dysmorphic grow out of it, so from a harm reduction perspective you actually harm waaaaaay more kids by giving them puberty blockers on the off chance that they won't grow out of it and regret their decision later. Lastly, puberty blockers do lasting harm, despite the claims to the contrary. I mean seriously it's baked right into the premise that you can pass easier if you don't go through the puberty because your bone structures, muscles, etc don't develop in the same way as they would if you weren't on the pills. Adding testosterone and other puberty hormones at a later date and trying to have a post-puberty puberty, a born again puberty if you will, cannot transmogrify the body into what would have been its normal, unmolested state.

[@chucklebouf5379]

21 actually has to do with numerology and old medieval standards. 7 you could become a squire, 14 you could become an apprentice, 21 you could become a knight, because 7 is a cool number so it was done on multiple of 7. So that definition of adulthood used in drinking and handguns is a weird cultural hangover.

[@ChemistWeb]

I’ve known quite a few gay/trans people that didn’t realize they were that way until a few years after they hit puberty. Most of them thought it would be a phase, but it never went away. It’s not immutable at “a young age”.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

for those who it is not, they were not real trans people. for those who it is, they are real trans people.

[@endosmuthmaobethwen7030]

@@ShortFatOtaku I can't tell if you're shitposting or actually No True Scotmanning this point

[@Yipper64]

18:40 I understand that, but I think its just self hate, being directed specifically at gender, and not anything else. Someone with anorexia, will look at their body in the exact same way. But instead of thinking "I should be the other gender" they think "I should be thinner." But with someone who has anorexia, you dont give them liposuction to make them thinner, you give them therapy to help them cope with their own body image. I dont see the difference here. Dont get into the "brain" stuff, thats not anything solid because the human brain is way too complex to distill it down like that. I dont think you can really define a "male" brain or a "female" brain, and especially not if you also want the "non-binary" stuff because you almost arent even defining anything at that point.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

the difference is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of effective therapy that adequately deals with gender dysphoria, in the same way that therapy might help for anorexia.

[@Nukestarmaster]

@@ShortFatOtaku So? Assuming you're right, that doesn't mean that mutilating the bodies of people suffering for gender dysphoria is better. Especially not when there is no statistically significant benefit to the use of hormones/surgery and a significant number of complications from the procedures.

[@jakedavies262]

@@ShortFatOtaku Actually, the rates I've seen generally are that around 80% of cases involving gender dysphoria in children, after receiving therapy, result in the child adopting a "normal" sexual identity. Wouldn't this suggest that the treatment methods did work and that persistors of gender dysphoria simply had failed therapy?

[@jakedavies262]

@@ilikecatsandstuff1 it's an interesting point. If a medical condition is inexorably tied to a person's self-perception or identity can it be morally "cured"? The progressive answer seems to be no and if you thought of gender dysphoria that way I can see why. I personally view it to be as weird as if people started internalising a tumor as part of who they are, and thus chemotherapy is simply the medical world trying to silence who you are as a person.

[@PresleyPerswain]

@@jakedavies262 Only all alternatives to transition are labeled as 'conversion therapy' and now illegal in Canada and the UK.

[@Metruzanca]

Can confirm, progs haven't read the bill. Someone close in my family took issue with the law and I simply asked "what part of the law is problematic?" and their response was "desantis wrote it so its must be bad since he's written a lot of other bad laws". Well if you didn't read this law, how do I know you've read the other laws? How can you say to know desantis is a bad person without knowing anything about what he stands for? This person clearly just heard someone on the news say it was bad and as a sheeple they said yeah, florida man bad.

[@nope8535]

Im a gay man who went through Florida schools. The bill has been needed for decades.

[@Xplora213]

Would be fascinated to know if teachers or other authority figures influenced your preferences as you were growing up, based on your comment.

[@nope8535]

@@Xplora213 not that I can see. I didnt even have my epiphany until 17, didnt leave the closet til 19. Although looking at the people i dated it was kinda obvious.

[@Xplora213]

@@nope8535 thanks for sharing.

[@theregalpeasant2636]

3:08 Why bring up the question of what is "age appropriate" and then immediately bring up a scenario of 17 year olds that doesn't apply to this bill?

[@scitechian]

The "age-appropriate" clause is separate from the "Kinder through grade 3" clause. It's basically "nothing at all through grade 3, nothing age-inappropriate period".

[@frosty848]

@@scitechian it says in the bill the range...

[@philagelio336]

Title says “gay” Gets HIV ad Lmao

[@nsanenbrane53]

They call him “Dog whistling Dev”.

[@apothe0sis]

"Legitimately trans" isn't a thing. There is no way to alleviate dysphoric symptoms except puberty. And the things you have described to you are, more likely than not, dissembling, it has been the modus operandi for decades.

[@psyxypher3881]

On your video on Roe v Wade, you mentioned that the left crossed the line of "Safe, Legal and Rare" on the abortion debate. I think this is a similar scenario. Though in both situations, I think the right is absolutely correct in all ways here. Mainly because that there's lines that shouldn't be crossed.

[@Snipfragueur]

"A deep disgust for what they are becoming" ... so a complex.

[@IngoLingoAnimations]

There are trans people who advocate for transition surgery after 18, because the "parts" used in the surgery are fully developed. Look at Blair White, she got surgery in her 20's and I find it hard to see her as her original sex.

[@The_New_IKB]

Blair also still has a man hood because bottom surgery could result in losing the ability to orgasm, being older Blair was able to give informed consents as to what was right for her situation. Thats how things should be.

[@DG-mk7kd]

Best option is choice and states rights. I know its pretty anti-libertarian, but if some state would go hard core trad-catholic I would move there. I'm not even very religious, but I would rather raise a family surrounded by "homophobe, transphobe,patriarchy,etc" than allow some blue haired, genderfluid, land whale, groomer within 50 miles of my kids; and I'm sure the feelings would be mutual. People are geographically sorting, that could save the union or destroy it.

[@dorugoramon0518]

Actually that is the libertarian option.

[@joeandmax1]

Dev has a really impressive track record of not saying stupid stuff, which is why when I heard him say that there are people who are trans at birth, I rushed to this comment section to express my displeasure at hearing such nonsense.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

Nah, I think it's the case.

[@SymmetricalDocking]

You do not pay attention to his videos enough. He is a lot better with a script and recording though. Follow him on twitter and you'll wonder if it's an imposter who stole his name to be stupid.

[@alexthompson8977]

@@ShortFatOtaku gender dysphoria is a condition that develops and isn't genetic (as in most cases it's lost by the end of puberty). So it is literally impossible to be trans at birth

[@Levi_Manifesto]

The correct answer is that we don't know. Hell we even don't know why people are gay. There is this famous misquotation "People only use 10% of their brain power" which originally was "We only know what 10% of our brains is used for". We like to think that our medicine is super advanced but in reality we still have a long way to go, especially in the field of neurobiology.

[@GabrielAKAFinn]

I suppose you can have all kinds of chemical imbalances in your brain at birth now, with all the phtalates and all the rest of the shit in the environment. I certainly hope he didn't mean it's genetic, that's full royal. And I don't know if this is reversible either, it's uterine hormonal exposure. But all in all it has to be the rarest of the rare cases.

[@WolfGr33d]

These people can't cope with the idea of not having a state figure dictate a child's personal growth. "What if the child's gay and they don't know it?" What necessitate's a teacher assisting a student discover their sexuality? What crucial experience would be denied from not pinning down your sexual identity by age 9?

[@innadesertDOTjpg]

Decentralization is the best option and I genuinely think similar laws should be passed nation wide. The more control people have in their states and communities, the better. After all, a local would understand a town’s culture better than an elected official from the big city who’s never even been to said town

[@viktordickinson7844]

Nobody is born trans. You become that way through trauma and experiences

[@daichi6378]

gender dysmorphia

[@AtrusOranis]

No... the research done seems to indicate that it's a result of brain structures that are more similar to that of the opposite sex. This is thought to be caused by hormonal levels in the mothers womb.

[@albertmaheswara9968]

i disagree

[@MrMandude365]

Obviously it’s more damaging for the state to abuse their power than a parent, on a large scale. The parents only have authority over their children, but the stat. Could have authority over ALL children.

[@terotcard]

The only way progs would have read the bill is if it was named "Harry Potter and the parental rights in education bill"

[@debanydoombringer1385]

I never saw a picture of my teacher's husband. I never had a teacher discuss their dating life. Never had one talk to us about their personal relationships at all. Most teachers tried to keep their private life private. Sharing with your students like they're your girlfriends is just weird and wrong. We've removed so much from the curriculum because students don't have enough time to learn everything. Maybe this is why. If they have that much time on their hands, maybe they can stop teaching to the test and just teach.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

i grew up in an era where teachers kept it professional but the few times it happened, it happened. a young female teacher was overheard in the hall before class telling another teacher she was going on a date and the kids teased her about it for a bit and she said "that's enough class" and that was the end of it. one teacher was married to another teacher in the school and they occasionally talked normally. one teacher's wife showed up for a bit when a family emergency happened. it's life man, sometimes it happens and it's no big deal.

[@NIGBEATS]

I agree with holding off life altering shit until your brain is fully developed. I DO NOT agree with the age restriction being different across multiple categories. If you cannot drink until you're 21, why are you allowed to enlist in the military at 18? If you are allowed to enlist in the military at 18 and go off to war where you may die in combat or suffer from life long (and commonly suicide inducing) trauma, why would you not allow someone to have a surgeon mutilate their genitals?

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

Because they wanted those fresh bodies, so instead of rasing the draft's age to 21, they just lowered the voting age to 18.

[@D-Havoc]

They can mutilate their genitals when they reach the age to possibly be killed in war (if you're male) since you might kill yourself later down the line anyway. Although bonus points, most males in the U.S.A. receive circumcision at the age of infancy, so they're already getting their genitals mutilated. 🤷‍♂️

[@The_New_IKB]

As a Brit, I am firmly of the opinion that if you are old enough to fight and possibly die for your country then you are old enough to drink alcohol!

[@xenn4985]

You're employing a fallacy here. Humans don't just suddenly become something different at 25, development is a process and certain milestones are reached along the way. "why can i join the military but not drink!?!?" you say this like the military doesn't babysit you 24/7 while you buy your alcohol and are free range to do whatever the fuck you want. It's fucking retarded and you need to engage your brain to overcome this brain dead stance you've stumbled upon.

[@neonreagan6023]

Home school the kids. The rainbows were always after the kids from the start of their movement.

[@johnseppethe2nd2]

Home schooling is an easy way to give your child a bad start and i strongly disagree with your take about homosexuals.

[@Frodudus]

@@johnseppethe2nd2 You don't have kids.

[@varkr2066]

The majority of them turn out as rainbows due to trauma in childhood. So most of them will expose this trauma to kids because they think it's normal.

[@televized1781]

Facts right there, ask yourself why the left keeps on trying to get at people's kids.

[@johnseppethe2nd2]

@@Frodudus you don't either. Anyway a good school that you can choose is going to do much more for a child than homeschooling and thats just the truth.

[@kazekamiha]

The thing is this bill is a response to problems that extreme members of the LGBT club caused and others allowed/ignored. And they haven't figured that out.

[@silvermknight]

I've been struggling with gender identity for over 20 years right up to the point where I had chosen a female name for myself. I had kept this sort of thing in the dark and under wraps while I did a lot of soul searching to discover for myself that if I transitioned, my male self would be gone forever. I realized that I didn't want that because while I would have made a good woman, I make a great man. I kept this sort of thing secret because I didn't want anyone else to influence such a monumental decision. I wanted to be 100% sure of myself if I wanted to become a woman permanently. I have had these thoughts since puberty and if I had talked about them to the wrong person, I am terrified of what would have happened. However, I am sure of one thing, I have given more honest thought to my gender identity than many who claim to be trans.

[@TVMAN1997]

There is a lot of questions and vetting you have to do to make sure someone is actually transgender/ body dysmorphia A lot of that vetting doesn’t happen :/

[@ChronoTango]

Well, I understand the “merits” of the wait till 25, the fact remains that at 18 you are considered an adult. An adult who is fully responsible for your own actions. Let’s bring the drinking and smoking age back to 18 while we’re at it.

[@The_New_IKB]

As a Brit, I am firmly of the opinion that if you are old enough to fight and possibly die for your country then you are old enough to drink alcohol.

[@oversizedtrashpanda1100]

At 18:08 there's a conflation between false positives and false negatives. The false negative rate - the percentage of kids who don't report gender dysphoria but grow up to be trans as adults - is incredibly low. Like, less than 1% low. That's why you can talk to trans adults and they'll all say they knew they were trans from a young age. But the false positive rate - the percentage of kids who *do* report gender dysphoria but grow out of it naturally by the time they're adults - is much higher. Depending on the study, between 60% and 90%. That's not something you would learn about by talking to trans adults about their experience, because this 60% to 90% of kids don't become trans adults. So it's not really correct to say "if you're legitimately trans, that's something you know from a young age." And while I can understand and accept that trans people would have an easier time if they were able to transition early, I can't justify putting 60% of supposedly trans children through unnecessary, irreversible, and lifelong medical intervention for the sake of the remaining 40%, even though that 40% would actually benefit.

[@Sportnugget]

The bill bans instruction not casual conversation, so I don't think your first concern is valid

[@ShortFatOtaku]

see: twitter.com/SakakiIsCute/status/1522037502420258817

[@SymmetricalDocking]

@@ShortFatOtaku Holy shit, a link to a tweet with a link to an article you didn't even read. How embarassing! She literally made it into a lesson and had them draw sexual orientations.

[@Frodudus]

@@ShortFatOtaku read the article tard

[@Sportnugget]

@@ShortFatOtaku I appreciate the reply, but "the kids at Trafalgar Middle School then created flags representing their own sexuality and gender identities ranging from transgender and non-binary to gay." Also it doesn't seem like she was an official teacher at the school, and they decided to end their contract with her. Also also it sounds like it was at the outcry of parents not because she broke this law. Also also also it looks like she's a woman married to a man, so I honestly doubt her abnormal sexuality became a topic of discussion naturally although I admit that part is speculation. I don't think this is an example of what you think it is.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

@@Sportnugget it also says that she was specifically kicked out for responding "i'm pansexual" when her kids asked her her orientation. i don't approve of some of the other stuff, but what they are citing as the reason for kicking her out is actually unobjectionable.

[@youngthinker1]

The issue, at the end of the day, is what morals we seek to impart. To me, as a traveler whose spoken to everyone around the US, it seems to boil down to narcissism and materialism, outside of certain religious groups. If such folks, who see sex as the highest virtue, taught children, then it makes sense that they wish to hammer in this worship.

[@theoriginalkrabbypatty]

I had a lesbian math teacher in middle school, I knew because she lived up the road from our family but it was never spoken about and she never said a word to any of the students! She was a really great teacher, stuck to teaching math and life went on! I did the same thing when I taught kids, the only thing they knew about my life is that I drove a purple car and had cats! Kids don’t need to be up in my business!!!

[@gothicpando]

Disphoria is a broad class of psychological disorders, but only one type of disphoria is "treated" with hormones and invasive surgery instead of therapy. If a man goes to his doctor claiming that his arm shouldn't be a part of him, he gets counseling to accept his arm. But if it's his penis that he has a problem with, it gets chopped off.

[@AtrusOranis]

I remember a Collab with Blair White and Buck Angel, and one of the things they hammered was "Having Dysphoria doesn't make you Trans!". Yes, it might mean you ARE trans, but you should make sure there is NOTHING else going on FIRST.

[@piousminion7822]

I've lived in Florida my whole life. Sex Ed has NEVER focused on, promoted, or emphasized benefits of heterosexuality. When sexuality was brought up, all variants were detailed. I'm almost 40 so this isn't a new thing. SIECUS is flat out lying.

[@DaBestEmperor]

Gen Z here, in my early 20s I have a question that is somewhat relevant here. But whenever I hear millennials, and other gen Z talk about talk about sex ed online it seems they had a very different experience than what I had. Generally when I hear people talk about sex ed they refer to actual education about what sex is and different sexualities, and even different sexual acts and positions. Which whenever I hear that it just seems crazy to me. Like, 'sex ed' when I was in public schools actually had nothing to do with sex itself, but rather talked about the science of how reproduction worked, and the various diseases and risks associated with it. Generally it was 80% talking about HIV/AIDs and STIs, whilst being 20% the science of "how a baby is made". I don't think the actual word "sex was ever used once outside of the name of the lesson. Am I misunderstanding something, or were many of you actually taught like "here is how sex works, here is some common positions, these are the different sexualities, etc. ? I know for a fact that my parents never opted me out of such things, so was my school district just prude or something? I live in Washington state if anyone was curious.

[@Raptor302]

I'm old enough to remember what a rush to ADHD medication and antidepressants did to an entire generation. With prepubescent kids being fast tracked for puberty blockers and sterilizing hormone drugs, I can't imagine what it will be like in 10-20 years time. We are raising a generation of mentally damaged children.

[@TheAurgelmir]

Someone explain to me a reasonable argument why there should be a drinking age, at all, if hormone treatment is something that should be purely the choice of children?

[@tarektechmarine8209]

At least for war you could argue you need young men to fight, then too for your country and people.

[@TheAurgelmir]

@@tarektechmarine8209 Yes, and many nations have the legal drinking age, the legal voting age and the military age at the same age. In fact the legal voting age was lowered many places because of the idea that "no man should be asked to die for his country and not be allowed to vote for those who send them to die" Other nations used the draft as argument for giving voting rights to all men, since they were sent to die. But, that has nothing to do with my question. What is a good argument for the banning of alcohol for children, but not banning them being allowed to choose themselves if they want hormone treatment or not. Both can cause a lot of unrepairable harm.

[@dorugoramon0518]

@@TheAurgelmir Alcohol is a lot less harmful than cutting off a perfectly healthy organ.

[@TheAurgelmir]

@@dorugoramon0518 true. Most don't go that far from what I understand. Hence why I brought up Alcohol vs hormones

[@slashbash1347]

Don't say "chemicals in the water."

[@etrs]

They're turning the freaking kids gay!

[@BlueWolfClaw]

One thing that has bothered me for a while is how activists want you to affirm your kid if they should say they are trans. There should always be checks and balances in place to make sure it is true, there needs to be push back. How often do you hear kids saying they broke their arm or leg when all they did was bruise it? Just because a kid says such doesn’t mean it is true, but you should still check on them and do what is truly best. The wrong medical procedures will only cause harm no matter if it fixing a broken leg or dealing with mental issues. And sometimes waiting some time before deciding a treatment is needed, not all medical issues can be treated instantly and some should be taken with caution

[@BUSHWOOKIE18]

Gender dysphoria shouldn’t be treated with hormones and mutilation.

[@dorugoramon0518]

Exactly, It is akin to treating anorexia with weight-loss medication.

[@razumikhim]

I'm not gonna lie I'd hate to have my kids be students in America right now

[@TheLastSoundNL]

The reasonable standard has a slightly different meaning in law. I learned this during the Kyle trial. Check the start and end of the trial for jury instructions by the judge. Even murder cases have this language. And state standards are I think a teacher's instruction on curriculum. Their documents on what topic to teach for that year. Even your examples of what goes on in a teacher's personal romantic life seems weird to me. I had that happen only twice and it stood out.

[@eddiebernays514]

when i was in school we didnt know shit about our teachers personal lives. their job was to teach, not be our friends. teachers need to stop trying to be kids friends.

[@thatwasprettyneat]

When you said the bill could just as easily be dismissed as the "Don't Say Straight" bill, that was an automatic thumbs-up.

[@jimmybeans1175]

Blue hairs eliminating the blood lines of their enemy without even fighting.

[@juandiegotorres9632]

And i completely agree that only "changing" gender because is trendy us disgusting.

[@realtalunkarku]

Yup

[@johncounts2182]

6:59 "Poot-nam county..." lol (it's pronounced put- like put put golf; nuhm- like being numb)

[@yarlodek5842]

Dev, you’re tolerance of trans people is infuriating. But other than that, based takes as always.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

but where am i wrong

[@yarlodek5842]

@@ShortFatOtaku give me your source for “people are born trans.”

[@RA-ie3ss]

@@ShortFatOtaku You support concept crawl when its your trans friends doing it with the concept of gender.

[@Grizz1yKi11a]

@@ShortFatOtaku Because a "trans kid" is like a vegan cat. They are not the ones holding the reigns, and they are probably being deliberately abused (if its not out of buffoonery).

[@divolg7981]

@@xdrowssap4456 Yes.

[@adrianalexanderveidt344]

You have been making really great video, especially recently. I truly respect your fairness and nuance. Keep up the great work.

[@JagenRay]

Expected a different take, but hard agree with this one. Really disappointed I can't discuss nuanced politics with a certain subset of friends right now because of how hysterical they are over all the recent (reasonable, if slightly flawed) conservative pushback going on...

[@theALTF4]

dude...find better friends then, those are not friends if they shame you for disagreeing, those are abusive bullies

[@JagenRay]

@@theALTF4 true, more like "acquaintances"

[@lobisomemfacanha4817]

Dev, I just realized you sound like Brian from Family Guy and now I can't unhear it

[@cinemint]

His voice is just a BIT too high pitched but it's close

[@Ryzeex.]

Nah, this is a miss

[@theisaiahcc]

I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree.

[@lostboi2271]

💀

[@geoffreydoell6855]

Not in the voice but in the choice words sometimes and not alot

[@Zal0vid]

I think giving the power to parents is the right thing.

[@arilegall2001]

I’m from Maryland. But the way you said “Merry land” Has me dying laughing. Good vid btw

[@AaronAlexanderOfficial]

I'm surprised you actually got a rational conversation with Lilith out of this. She went full-on trans-craptivist on twitter a while back to the point I had to unfollow her over it. Whatever you said must've calmed her down.

[@rwberger6]

Wait till they're 8? But I need my lifestyle to be to be affirmed by elementary schoolers NOW!

[@JohnSmith-mo9db]

Dev you need to learn how to say "in my opinion "

[@ShortFatOtaku]

no because i am always objectively correct

[@JohnSmith-mo9db]

@@ShortFatOtaku I like your scripted videos but you are incorrect in this comment obviously. I appreciate the time and thought you put in your videos. You clearly have contempt for the right and are irritated with the fact that the left gets so much wrong and goes to far.

[@Dumdumshum]

I took sex ed in Florida in elementary and middle school. They emphasized abstinence as the most effective method of preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs, and they also specified that heterosexual couples are statistically less likely to get HIV, and my teachers also mentioned how homosexual men were much more likely to get HIV than homosexual women. After those disclaimers were out of the way, It was your bog-standard "here's what a condom is" "here's diagrams of male and female reproductive organs and generally how they work" "here's how your bodies will change through puberty" "here are the different types of birth control, their effectiveness, their side-effects, and their availability/cost" "here's how having a kid while too young will ruin your life" "here's what STDs look like at their worst"

[@Xplora213]

LOL 😂 it sounds like they were working hard to promote this is bad stuff kids 👀