Is Pride Still Necessary? Conservative vs Liberal Gays | Middle Ground

[@jubilee]

Thanks to Milanote for sponsoring this video. Sign up for free with no time limit: milanote.com/jubilee

[@abbeangely]

Hey Jubilee, I hope you can read all of the prompts in future videos 🥲 some of us may be listening to it like it’s a podcast and it gets confusing when the topic changed and having to go back to it all the time

[@pamelagreen6611]

Would it be terrible/obvious to have generational debates? More Senior gays vs young? Just wondering…

[@covespa]

0:00 R

[@career5690]

Jubilee I want to see CNA vs Nurse.

[@career5690]

I also want to see Black Americans vs White Americans meaning American citizens whose family lived here for centuries.I’m saying this because Black Americans have said that they don’t want Africans and Caribbean Americans speaking for them.

[@HHLucifer666]

As a gay person, the over-sexualization of pride has made it uncomfortable for me to even want to attend the event. I don't wanna see indecent nudity in a public space nor do I wanna see it as a celebration of sex in general. There ARE places for that, and a public street is not one of them

[@emir5009]

Yes feel this way also

[@BNezzy]

This is the reason why I will never ever attend or support a Pride Parade but still support some LGB people outside of them.

[@Omgits7ito]

Likewise my friend

[@lizafrench8455]

Yep

[@keithrodes]

Same here. 👋🏼

[@SRichards-de7ri]

Just to lay down the law: indecent exposure, public nudity and public sec is all ILLEGAL for both straights and gays

[@cecebakescakes]

doesnt seem to be at pride parades tho. Haven‘t seen anyone being arrested for that and I have been to several in the past 6 years

[@riftsplitter2159]

@@cecebakescakesRules for thee but not for me.

[@nonchellent]

I can’t speak for everywhere, but I know in Seattle, nudity is not illegal. It is considered a crime to do something indecent like touching yourself or flashing someone in public, but public nudity on its own is not illegal here. That’s why we have the naked bike riders parade. Being naked by itself does not constitute a crime. I’m sure Seattle is not the only place in the US like this.

[@thes.t.a.gprince9952]

​@@nonchellent why do people want to be naked in public 😢

[@KoreyByrne]

Isn’t nudity legal in New York ?

[@radnbeautyg5856]

They did way better than the trans debate. Glad they kept each other in check and made sure everyone was heard.

[@DiabolicalAngel]

They really did. The trans debate was so unpleasant.

[@valentxnee]

Gays are way more accepted socially so obviously people have way less stress/stigmas about it, and the conversation is more about trivial topics instead of focusing on topics of more importance/necessity

[@spritesandspirits]

I feel like they just need a better group of people for the trans debate, it was so emotional but with more mature trans women I could see a better episode

[@shirazsharivar8536]

But the trans debate was 1000x more interesting and tv worthy. This was duuull

[@aurniachowdhury]

Oml, excusing a few people, I felt like the whole trans debate was kinda hectic. People were like not listening to one another, talking over one another, not respecting one another. Yeah it was just very chaotic.

[@Carolyn-b9u]

I love Amir. He’s so level headed, well spoken, and educated

[@saraAHalo]

Same, though I wish he spoke up more for the young kids getting irresponsible “care”. I know he has a strong opinion on this, I would have loved to hear him express it.

[@pigpen1978]

​@saraAHalo He has a youtube channel where he goes into depth on a lot of interesting topics

[@tvbnine793]

I dont agree with everything he says, but i watch his yt channel religiously. Amir is a real dude

[@LobsterMack]

As a drag queen, let me tell you, I do not want kids at my shows. It’s 95% of the time hosted at a nightclub or bar, those are not spaces meant for minors. Let me drink in peace. I don’t want to have to censor myself or my art because someone decided to bring their kid to my show. That being said, I have done shows that were open to everyone at other venues where there were guidelines in place to make sure everything we wore or performed was appropriate for all ages. Also, Homegirl with the denim vest needs to hush. I KNOW she doesn’t let ANY of her friends talk, EVER.

[@Layla109]

Thank you for being sensible! There is hope for humanity yet.

[@iihh517]

Home girl with denim 😂

[@Mrs.Deanna_Ember]

I agree, though If its at a nightclub or bar, children aren't allowed anyway, so I'm not sure how this all turned into an issue

[@sakshamtyagi9652]

His response to the anti trans b*tch was very apt

[@Olivia-uc4eu]

​@@iihh517😂😅 I'm rolling homegirl😅😂

[@Restingmadface]

I like how they constantly validated each other, apologized, or stood up for each other even when they disagreed. I feel I like that isn’t common in these debates.

[@karinisvetcool]

Yeah the 'I'm so much more pissed off than you but I CAN shut my mouth', beautiful

[@dandrechesterfield5411]

That’s because even though they’re gay they’re still men so they don’t have that female trait to tear each other down

[@1Dark.Paradise.Lost1]

​@@dandrechesterfield5411 You still found a way to tear down a group of people, christ.

[@iloveCH0C0LATE439]

​@@dandrechesterfield5411lol what? Men and women tear each other down all the time in life and in these debates. The fact that they were able to apologize and reconcile is extremely rare in Jubilee debates regardless of sex.

[@brivonn1580]

Not me figuring out which of the guys would make a handsome couple 😂😂😂

[@thisvvn8510]

This is the first middle ground where it actually feels like a legitimate constructive discussion more often than a debate

[@saveforth]

Idk, they’ve been pretty mean to each other, I haven’t really seen that in the other episodes I’ve seen.

[@Max78912]

cus regular gays are actually super cool and chill

[@josephhutchins8]

That’s because there’s no women in this discussion

[@zgk815]

I agree. Often Jubilee finds people whose job is being a talking piece for a political party (last week had 2 pragerU employees on the conservative side. It’s tough though because Jubilee wants to find articulate people with well defined views but most people don’t. I really liked this video though

[@brandonj7586]

A debate can be a legitimate constructive discussion. But I get what you're tryna say.

[@jennrossotti8920]

Just so we’re clear. Conservatives feel the same way about oversexualizing Straight Culture as well. It’s not like we think it’s ok for us and not for gays. We dislike it in both cases.

[@scooberdoober1969]

i feel like this isn't necessarily fair. I have never once heard a conservative get heated about mardi gras or music festivals or other straight events that might include nudity and sexualization. i mean at least you're consistent though.

[@Lensical]

I liked your post, and I appreciate your transparency when disliking the oversexualization from any community. However, we still see that many people all over the world allow for the justification of degeneracy so long as it's within the heterosexual/heteronormative lens. As one example, there's child marriage. People use things such as Religion, biology, and the potential for procreation as shields to justify child marriage (just to be clear, it's an adult marrying a child). Especially in cultures that allow for the child to be married OFF, even without their consent. Have you seen Men marrying little boys? Have you seen Women marrying little girls? Have you seen older trans individuals marrying younger trans children? I have not seen any instances of any of these (if there exist any instances, they would be as abhorrent as with the almost countless examples of heteronormative instances). As a member of the LGBTQIA+, living in a heteronormative world, we spend more time on the outside - as a global minority - looking in.

[@jennrossotti8920]

@@Lensical which Western cultures marry off young girls without their consent? The only one I can think of in Western culture is perhaps FLDS church? But even this was roundly condemned by everyone. Even when it was happening it was hidden by those participating in it. It is not “normative.” Who in Western culture is advocating for this? I don’t know of any Western institution that thinks this is ok. Maybe I’m not understanding what you mean.

[@codycallihan4427]

​@@scooberdoober1969we exist. I can't even watch music videos because of sexualization of singers. I wouldn't say I'm heated except for these videos being displayed to children, but I pity the artists for being exploited for their bodies when they have talents that I try to just enjoy and relate to.

[@littlebitoftrolling2859]

​@@jennrossotti8920In Western cultures, you don't really get arranged marriages, but they did say all around the world. But child marriage is still legal in 40 US states and it used to be all 50 until 2018

[@geertmostrey3340]

As a European gay, I cannot help but wonder how this debate, on in my opinion very import topics, would go if you put European gays vs American gays. We do seem to live in different worlds. Maybe an idea for a future program?

[@flowerblue196]

All of it

[@Lindsay--uh8zo]

yes sounds very interesting

[@ownedbymykitty270]

How would you describe most European gays compared to what you saw here?

[@l4rgatx414]

latino gays, hispanic gays, it would be a completely different experience

[@markrogers1786]

European seems way too broad. I can’t imagine they have the same cultural continuity between Paris and Moscow as Americans would have about LA and New York. A Scandinavian and a Turk, an Irishman and a Bulgarian. You see the point I’m making. Too many different cultures and governments for any small group to speak for “Europe”

[@AQcg5]

Enough with liberals vs conservatives I wanna see capitalists vs communists 😂

[@zking2929]

Truuuuue

[@SickVeteran99]

They have one with Capitalists vs Socialists. But I agree, we need a deeper conversation of Capitalists vs Socialists or Capitalists vs Communists

[@darryl_Cornelius]

Or Capitalist vs Socialist vs Communist....include all three, they've done it before!

[@vigiantitanudjaja1364]

Please Jubilee 😭

[@RoboFuryMan]

we kinda did before

[@jhonnewell9522]

I would like to see a middle ground on male LGBT vs women LGBT. Have a person represent each letter and see where we all stand within our own community.

[@ragingenby]

The idea is that the two groups they get are opposing sides. Gay women and gay men wouldn’t fit this criteria on their own. That being said, they could do an interesting spectrum episode on it

[@emmakaisa27]

Male lesbian? 😂

[@azzamziply3039]

​@@emmakaisa27you mean trans lesbian?

[@dang4160]

What community there isent a community end off .

[@justanotherviewer7117]

How about trans men vs trans women? Or biologically female lesbians vs trans women who identify as lesbian. Now THAT could be explosive!

[@drudiogenes8544]

The closing was effin' golden. I was touched by the solidarity and brotherly love. Hats off to all of you and the production team for an excellent discussion.

[@CCLyssCC]

One thing I can't stand is when someone doesn't let someone else talk and keeps interupting them. Just seeing it is frustrating, and dealing with it even more. It's so disrespectful. No matter if you agree or not.

[@jaderose3175]

I agree, however that's just how these heated debates go 🤷‍♀️

[@vincentslashmarshall]

Well, Mario absolutely deserved to be interrupted. I hate this new "let people talk" thing because it allows ppl who aren't so smart to talk a lot of non-sense.

[@KV-db9gw]

​@@vincentslashmarshalllike you just went on a rant about this.

[@sakshamtyagi9652]

Honey the disagreement in this case is literally a mf taking away my rights and actively pushing trans kids towards sh or s*icide

[@HimeHades]

Mario absolutely deserved to speak his point and be heard literally the definition of a debate is to let both sides speak

[@Soulessblur]

The way most of them sobered up and apologized about their reaction to the affirming care question is refreshing to see. I don't think I've seen that in any other Middle Ground episode thus far.

[@V1LL1N]

Yes it showed exactly the potential to still move forward despite not getting anywhere :). It was a happy ending, which I didnt think was gonna happen at all!

[@dewilew2137]

The curly haired guy didn’t apologize. He was absolutely insufferable.

[@Soulessblur]

@@dewilew2137 we don't talk about Bruno

[@janetbrooks3634]

I just wonder if it was a genuine apology or was it because he knew the way he had acted was gonna cause major backlash from both sides.🤔

[@V1LL1N]

I too considered this possibility!@@janetbrooks3634

[@Yhabd87579jd]

Kai was the absolute sweetest and he really tried to find a middle ground. The denim vest guy was really hard to watch with how disrespectful he was by interrupting people all the time.

[@HimanshuKumar-e9u6i]

I don't think he was disrespectful in any way, why can't someone be interrupted after affecting lives of so many kids badly

[@David-xm9wn]

it wasnt just that one instance it was many@@HimanshuKumar-e9u6i

[@nielszindel1151]

He reminds me of gay men from the past who really had to fight for their rights and maybe life has not been easy for him. Delia Morris

[@tinacameron5526]

​​@@HimanshuKumar-e9u6imario has actually been fighting for someone like me before puberty I wanted to be a boy, if I knew about trans I would've 100% went through puberty blockers. I needed to go through puberty to know I am meant to be a woman. I would be the girl having regrets and I'm thankful for people like mario he should be proud. I will also say I'm glad I wasn't exposed to this confusing transgender stuff in school because I would be living an unhappy life for the rest of my life.

[@albertacorralez2871]

@@HimanshuKumar-e9u6iIt is not badly. Kids brain aren’t fully developed. They are not mature enough to make those decisions that have permanent consequences.

[@labrat_irl]

Barrett was so rude! The ending?? He ruined it! I “you have a lot of energy and passion but you don’t use it the way I want you to use it” BYEEEE

[@vmarie22456]

You know idk why these liberals get so offended when people mention kids transitioning.. cause I’ve seen some people say they regret it later on. Not saying that’s for every person, but they tend to invalidate those experiences.

[@emmargaret]

Yeah and “being worried about the other person being used”, like he’s not smart enough to use discernment. That’s a backhanded thing to say.

[@valerieprosser2700]

Only at the second question and i could see him doing something like this even tho i dont know what is it yet, he just comes off that way lol

[@morganeudey625]

I can’t stand him and I’m barely into the video. He’s so rude and thinks everybody is a bigot. Even gays apparently!

[@Corfoo]

This whole conversation was a great watch. Much respect to these guys for standing up for what they believe in while also apologizing when they know they've crossed a line.

[@ryancraig9352]

I find it pathetic.

[@starsas2889]

@@ryancraig9352 me too.

[@starsas2889]

no.

[@taeulen]

@@ryancraig9352What do you find pathetic?

[@ruzgar1372]

​@@taeulen I doubt that it's about them having a balanced and respectful conversation with eachother but rather the fact that they are gay.

[@sarafletch]

Expressing sexuality naked, in public spaces where children are is never okay.

[@zaddyrat3476]

Most events where stuff like that happen are 18+

[@rosepeter7605]

Alot of pride parades are not though they are opened to the general public which is the problem ​@@zaddyrat3476

[@Mastaace]

That almost literally never happens. Stop with your conservative talking points.

[@sarafletch]

@@Mastaace Every single pride event in every city In the world has open nudity and fetish wear- mixed with children. So that just is beyond incorrect. I’m gay and refuse to attend any pride events that children are allowed at cause I think it’s very disturbing. People like you are very much apart of the problem.

[@vdwhite687]

Exactly

[@whitneytan2330]

The third prompt really exemplifies the beauty of Middle Ground. People got really passionate and intense about their positions, but at the end, most were respectful, and even willing to admit that they let their emotions get the better of them.

[@ksw961]

except berrett wasn't so respectful

[@hiig2667]

@@ksw961 exactly he was being annoying. Kept cutting off anyone he didn't agree with and accused the other guy of "interalized homophobia" for not agreeing with his beliefs. No one else did that 💀

[@sydneyclark1135]

@@hiig2667i usually like barrett’s takes and i follow him on tiktok, but i have to agree with you on this.

[@raimeyewens7518]

@@hiig2667even with half the room telling him to wait for his turn he kept running his mouth. So annoying. Such a prat.

[@SlavLesbo]

@@hiig2667honestly i cringed so hard

[@marcelladupree7909]

Question? Is it that bad for kids to wait a few more years until they are 18/ 21 to make such a big decision? No one is saying they can’t transition.

[@Blackstar-yd3yf]

They argue that puberty makes it harder to transition that's why they are against waiting

[@Mars-jf4gy]

It can be, yes. In a lot of cases, waiting means that the person in question has a very high chance of never reaching that age. It is incredibly uncommon, but there is a small handful of people who do end up being given medical care before they reach adulthood in order to make sure that they actually reach adulthood in the first place. And I don’t know where you’ve been, but a disgustingly large amount of people are saying they can’t transition. I’m not sure if you just worded it badly, but I find it hard to believe that you’re genuinely unaware of that.

[@neotronextrem]

​@@Blackstar-yd3yfit makes it harder to transition in the way that you pass slightly less well. So the prospect of mutilating someone's body into dysfunction as either Male AND female is fine, because you can look better when you're older? You realise how insane this sounds?

[@wasabilover1293]

@@Blackstar-yd3yf for trans kid's its harder to **survive** till they reach 18

[@AndreaAth]

It should be the norm. Everyone should go through puberty. It's literally a time where you find yourself

[@zanelandin]

Thank you so much for having me on! It was an incredible experience!

[@zanelandin]

@suntzu751Aww! Thank you! ❤

[@RsYoutubeArchive-xd8hy]

Cutie

[@shallyhutch4032]

You were amazing ❤

[@user-sh2rc5kc7x]

You were fair and balanced also respectful of everyone which is most important

[@ironmaiden93ofangmar]

You definitely gave a unique energy to the conversation that made it very chill and thoughtful.

[@caffeinatedshawty]

really want conservative lesbians vs liberal lesbians!!

[@len-1768]

Seconded. Fingers crossed Jubilee does this episode.

[@mila-evans]

Or Radical Feminist vs Liberal Feminist

[@samu-chan]

Nah

[@fate8007]

@@mila-evans radical feminism is very broad. Some of them are Marists others are just TERFS

[@lunoxec]

im pretty sure this is coming otherwise it wouldn't be fair if only the gays got this topic of middle ground lol

[@harpieclan1950]

I love seeing other gay men having a healthy conversation. We can disagree but we should come together. The battle isn’t against each other

[@harperwiccan475]

👀 i’m sorry but what? There’s all sorts of flavors and backgrounds also in the queer community and we ain’t all gonna get along either. Don’t care how much Dolly Parton and Britney Spears you put into the mix. We do have conversations to hash out amongst our very own.

[@hannariel]

@@harperwiccan475 They talking about the gays and not the "Queers".

[@BrekkaJones24]

Yeah we coming together alright 😅

[@Golems_victory]

That's insanity.

[@marvinmiller2983]

Gotta hand it to Ryan, even though I generally didn't agree with what him or the other liberals were saying, nor did I like the way he acted when they talked about gender affirming care, my respect for him grew immensely when he owned up to his mistakes and apologized.

[@Lauragonzart]

Saying puberty blockers are just “pausing” puberty is so ignorant. Girl the human body is not a KZbin video. Its serious stuff

[@ysabellpp]

It’s sex lobotomy effectively. It’s wild how such serious changes in an otherwise healthy body seems to be treated so lightly especially when it comes to children. In the past hurting patients body would be considered gross malpractice.

[@Ladystardustt]

I'd love to see a conservative teachers vs liberal parents

[@verotheal-zq6ie]

or conservative parents vs liberal teachers

[@welsh_callum]

@@verotheal-zq6ie They already did that one I think

[@briannaxo444]

me too, also I LOVE YOUR LANA PFP 💕

[@bonnieee16]

Been done

[@suitcase6698]

@@verotheal-zq6iethey already did that one

[@maddylou8173]

tyshaun was LOVING the “LGB should be separated from the TQIA+” debate, he was smiling the whole time while they argued lololol

[@jinniemelon00]

He wanted to grab some popcorn lol

[@wakeshoneema6363]

bro ty was me reacting as well😅😅😅😅

[@sadem1045]

He was about to BURST.

[@duglawfokker9182]

I was watching like am I missing something until the convo exploded and I was on my FEET for it

[@spaceparrot8702]

Well, I mean, the LGB should divorce the rest of the letters thing does make sense. LGB=sexual orientations. TQIAEJH+++=gender identity.

[@sarac.3568]

I love how all these young gay guys tell the gay guy who went through all of it, how he doesn't understand how unfortunate they are.

[@hillbillysamurai]

I'm still mad over that

[@nonename7869]

Mario was the best. Great example they should follow. If not for gays like him they wouldn't have the space today. I'm straight but an ally since the 90s and know how rude straight people were to gays in those days.

[@flamingosaregreat]

I thought that. It was really disrespectful

[@CrankyBarista]

To tell someone their real life experience isnt reality, is not only insulting but narcissistic.

[@JMBBrasil]

Yeah. They are so arrogant.

[@astrosfan1737]

"Hes protecting the kids that he doesnt have" my brother in christ you do not have kids either

[@Artliker1234]

lol how do you know, a lot of gay men, either when they were closeted or through IVF have children

[@AngelWings1960]

Adoption exists

[@Bradley_schaller]

Yea had this same thought. Like bruh not a valid argument

[@Lincolntowncoupe]

@@Artliker1234 It's a pretty safe bet he doesn't. He looks pretty young, and probably can't afford to have a kid. Adopted or otherwise.

[@Westernsizzlin]

I’m a gay liberal, and I agree more with the conservative side. We have lost touch with reality. The way you get called names and painted in a bad light is insane.

[@hider23232]

Gay conservative lmao

[@miliba]

@@hider23232 Whats the matter? Are those words making your little brain implode?

[@fathergascoigne6104]

@@milibayes because conservatives actively oppose being gay

[@linger4605]

​​@@hider23232It's funny how he called your type out and here you are. I'm a gay moderate that'll drag either sides stupidity, so I'm dragging you now.

[@hider23232]

@@linger4605 what did I say that’s incorrect

[@rigormortis9881]

Love how Barrett is asking for specific numbers and statistics while providing none.

[@2Bdiscovered]

EXACTLY, AND KEPT SAYING "I THINK" IN HIS RESPONSES, RATHER THAN STATING FACTS.

[@binaryvoid0101]

Well, to be fair, no one asked him. Ryan was probably the most prepared when it came to stats.

[@rigormortis9881]

@@binaryvoid0101 yeah but if you disregard what people say because they didn't give numbers then you should give some of your own to support your claims. Also he went on to block both Amir and Clarkson after this for no reason. He clearly didn't come to discuss and learn like Ryan. He thinks he's better than everybody else.

[@2Bdiscovered]

UPDATE: I REALIZE NOW WHY BARRETT ACTED THE WAY HE DID. THREE OF THOSE CONSERVATIVE MEN HAVE VERY QUESTIONABLE SOCIAL MEDIA. SO, AFTER SEEING THAT, I UNDERSTAND WHY HE ACTED THE WAY HE DID. THOSE GUYS ARE QUITE DISGUSTING TBH.

[@turtleegg7152]

@@rigormortis9881He is better than those fools.

[@andrewvelazquez7179]

I can agree with pride being oversexualized, especially in NYC. I saw so many penises in public, on the streets, people having sex, it was actually very uncomfortable and I haven't returned to a pride since then.

[@PaulThePandaren]

I didn't see any this year at NYC Pride. Only saw four people dressed inappropriately in the 13 hours I was out that day in all of the hundreds of thousands of people I saw. Where did you see this? On TikTok, KZbin, or in person?

[@ГеоргиБенчев-ч8й]

​@@PaulThePandarenI think op was referring to in person

[@andrewvelazquez7179]

@@PaulThePandaren in person

[@baz3575]

Back in the 90s I used to see gay men jumping into the urinals to be p***ed at and men walking around in women's lingerie mastubating to twinks at the Pride parties. They were meant to be 18+ but we all know gay bars barely check ID. It was always insane, it's nothing new.

[@mia_williams]

@@PaulThePandarenkey words returned to pride, they were there in person. regardless of your experience there are pride events where people take it too far, and it’s not a bad thing to have a conversation about that. Also even if it was on social media, which I’ve seen tons, it’s still just as bad.

[@Elliestandsforpeace]

Children should not be allowed to transition. I was the biggest tomboy when I was a little girl, I hated dresses and loved to play sports. I acted like a boy. Now I am the biggest girly girl you could meet. Just because I presented this way as a child, didn't mean I would want to transition into a boy. Children are forever changing their minds and are still discovering who they are, transitioning under the age of 18 should be illegal. If they carry that thought when they get older that they want to transition (over 18) then they should be allowed.

[@Magnocalabro]

Children shouldn't "socially" transition either till 18 years of age.

[@imjustaguycalledsano]

​@Magnocalabro, medically transitioning and socially transitioning are two different things. Socially, transitioning is easily reversible and doesn't hurt anyone. Its just the way in which someone presents themselves in front of others. Medical transitioning is different, but most people on either side dont want that.

[@Magnocalabro]

@@imjustaguycalledsano I know they are two different things. But children do not have enough mental maturity and knowledge of their own to tell whether they are trans or not, and apart from it they change their mind over a thousand times.

[@ForsakenJudge]

periodthh.

[@Oldbayisthebestseasoning]

@@Magnocalabrotechnecally none of it should happen until age 25 because that's when the Brain is fully developed.

[@DSS712]

This is one of the best episodes so far. I think it helps to disengage a lot of the gatekeeping controversy we are seeing these days, by reminding us that "gay" is just a neutral term referring to the inborn quality of same sex attraction, and that being gay doesn't determine your beliefs, morals, fashion, etc. What a great group of people in this episode.

[@Kittybublejjj]

“We’re celebrating essentially sex rather than love.” Well said!

[@SliceySlicer]

Is that wrong?

[@adriennedraper3393]

Can we get this with lesbians?

[@machellovelivelife658]

who would you suggest as the line up?

[@Emily-zm6qt]

@@machellovelivelife658probably a group of lesbians

[@Red_Phobic2]

Yess

[@GIRLZ-ARE-HAWT]

@@machellovelivelife658obviously lesbians

[@Reagan_Sanders]

@@machellovelivelife658Arielle Scarcella

[@leavesofdecember]

show me ONE single sample of any type of group that is on polor opposites who are capable of having such an AMAZINLGY beautiful and constructive debate !! even amongst all the middle ground videos, this is by far the most amazing one I've seen ! Every one highly educated, highly on point, all beautifully argumented points ! yeah it got a bit personal, but then they also appologised and hugged it out LITERALLY !!! I have never seen anything like this before, especially on the heaviest topics you can have within that community ! like for real.

[@parils1607]

No hate but I feel like it's crazy to say that a business shouldn't try to stop you from having sex in their bathroom

[@juliusfishman7222]

Lol logic don't work with this people

[@itsnatemate7697]

I think what I got from that statement that it’s more of the “double standards”

[@pnut3844able]

Yep

[@xx_HI_xx7]

​@itsnatemate7697 not really. We still stop straight people and shame them for this. Recent well known example. Cop with a lady in his squad car.

[@DarrenCondron]

@@xx_HI_xx7 because he was a cop

[@Orius25]

Not having the older generation represented here was a huge missed opportunity. The idea that they may default conservative is a wrongful assumption. There was so much talk of the historical legacy of LGBT community in this MG but there were no people who survived the HIV years to talk about what the community was like back then. The community now is SO polarized and fractured into identity camps, I find that the only escape is to talk to people from the older generation who understand the nuances.

[@Ceerads]

Yes, and thank you! I’m straight (woman) but old now and lived through the AIDS epidemic, as many of my coworkers then were gay men (and lesbians). I’m also in NYC and remember Stonewall.

[@baz3575]

Let's not BS each other - the "community" was always fractured. The gay guys in the scene always looked down on the lesbians until the lesbians stepped up to help them through the AIDS crisis. Now many of the older guys who survived have thrown lesbians, women and kids under the bus to advocate for "trans rights" in sports out of white guilt and survivor guilt knowing they never gave a damn about trans people back than. I have stories for days over the decades, the polarisation is nothing new it's just visible.

[@thebatonmaster]

Agreed, but the gentleman in white heels (Mario) was a little bit older I think. He looked young but I'm guessing he may have been past 50.

[@nicolenewsome4863]

Yeah I think Mario is older. But, btw where is Buck Angel in this I know he's at least 50.

[@devonferris]

I AGREE

[@ourcorrectopinions6824]

Mario is a winner for keeping his composure whilst being verbally assaulted time and again. Barret should've been kicked out for refusing to let him speak and for flouting basic etiquette of adult conversation (let alone debate). What's the point of a moderator who fails to moderate?

[@AbdulMannan-jx1yc]

Mario was the best one tbh. His arguements were the most valid honestly.

[@saijenkins3416]

It was amir ....

[@proctoscopefilms]

There's always someone that comes in HOT looking to argue lol Barrett and the Hawaiian shirt dude were definitely that guy today lol

[@maniacal1870]

Barret is an insufferable twerp. I caught myself yelling at my monitor so many times. He is either EXTREMELY sheltered or just a bald-faced liar.

[@Awesomeficationify]

I don't want there to be 0 push-back in these because that resolves nothing. I think Hawaiian-shirt-guy offered a reasonable level of amiable disagreement. And while I like Barret for his other work online, I agree he came to this waaaay to sour. You could see on his face how upset he was below the surface.

[@1981ledzep]

I don't like what the LGBT+ community stands for. I'm gay because I like men and that's it. I'm not pride because I'm gay. I just live my life.

[@jsisaacs1]

We need some older voices in these. It would be nice to see the views of an older generation that has seen decades of change and can speak to the progress or lack there of on these issues. Not just for this episode but for all future middle ground episodes.

[@varany3376]

@@lplphgtdgvsfdsvjhjiuhjhmgfgfhg wtf we younger gen literally "debated" kink at pride, while the older gen know that it has to be there to destigmatize it. If anyone it's us who is out of touch. We debate labels and flags, while they were active in destigmatizing AIDS and protested so we get help to fight AIDS, to fight homophobia-caused homelessness and many other very real problems in our society. It's totally out of touch to think the elders are out of touch, when they got us through the doors.

[@mitch103178]

@@lplphgtdgvsfdsvjhjiuhjhmgfgfhgolder straight people maybe.

[@leguminous7564]

Older people would be disproportionately conservative. I think the mix of younger and middle aged people in this panel worked better.

[@szasbaddest1]

@@lplphgtdgvsfdsvjhjiuhjhmgfgfhg "usually" is the key-word.

[@arturo9610]

And younger people are disproportionately liberal. The point stands that it would be a wider range of equally valid opinions.

[@TrunkyDunks]

Both of my uncles are gay. Survived the AIDS epidemic and all that. They both say that over sexualizing the movement was the worst thing that could have happened. They just wanted to marry their partners. Didnt want to be praised, just treated equally. When they got that, thats it. They saw it as a win and called it a day.

[@leonyame2254]

In Gay Land that's called "hetero normativity". Very few gays want that these days. And the ones that do get a partner try to be greedy and invite other men to have sex with them. At one point i was thinking about castration because I'm really dissatisfied. My friends told me "If you want a real relationship learn to be attracted to women. And be promiscuous until you find someone you get on with." Sorry about this rant; i missed therapy this week.🙁

[@teamtundra2619]

@@leonyame2254what

[@teamtundra2619]

@TrunkyDunks heterosexuals are just as sexualized

[@leonyame2254]

@@teamtundra2619 Why does being human have to be so difficult? I've seen how other species mate. The only ones that struggle like us are spiders and maybe deer....🙄

[@theresurrection33]

Being gay is literally wanna have sex with men. Sicken

[@ZenzoSezSo]

Tyshaun's face at 20:23 is me when any discussion gets even a little bit spicy

[@SmileyAdventures]

😂😂😂 SAME!!! 😮😅😮

[@iihh517]

Just enjoying the drama without interfering or anything. Guys like that are typical backstabbers

[@uwannadance1971]

Really showed his age.

[@itsnatemate7697]

@@uwannadance1971How? Is he not allowed to be flummoxed? He didn’t burst out laughing or interrupt anyone

[@itsnatemate7697]

@@iihh517that doesn’t make any sense

[@日本のカバ]

I honestly love these videos, it’s either an entertaining drama that makes you angry or an interesting political statement from both sides that really makes everyone think and find a middle ground

[@donsryche1]

As a straight guy, I want to say this may have been one of the most informative videos I have ever seen in the 20 years that KZbin has been around. Thank you.

[@tannerheyl2537]

Agreed

[@VocaloidM1]

As a gay guy it's nice to see the interest and research about a subject that doesn't directly affect you but wanna be informed about!

[@DoRNURSE]

Your open mind is much appreciated!

[@a4rules2]

youtube hasnt been around for 20 years sweetheart

[@ASparkleross]

@@a4rules2 Eighteen years to be exact. So, damn near 20.

[@ebonyzoe]

We need an all females version of this now!

[@erenjaeger1738]

I could see that already. Arielle scarcella is definitely the type to get in jubilee again. She would ask the "liberals" what does a lesbian mean.

[@halloweengirl5523]

Yesss!! Definitely

[@Naadeneo]

I had that thought as well

[@gillowens24]

True 🏳️‍🌈

[@celestialmorpho]

@@erenjaeger1738a valid question

[@geeunit831]

As a Gay Liberal I was so embarrassed to have Barrett representing us. He was rude, obnoxious and totally unprepared for the topics of this debate. When he mentioned Marcia P. Johnson "throwing the first brick" I nearly choked. I hate to say it but I really appreciated the decorum and well articulated points from the Conservatives on the panel.

[@void405]

I think it's that kind of nuance that marks the difference with how people perceive the LGBT community. Blaire White gains a lot more respect than Dylan M. because they have nuance as a trans person who understands that not all aspects of LGBT expression is appropriate for children.

[@maichai13]

He doesn't represent you. He represents himself. Another black woman doesn't represent me...I represent me. We gotta get away from the monolith mentality.

[@hehebecca]

yes honestly i was so irritated by him the whole time. why can’t you just listen when someone else is talking! i don’t care who you side with, he was so rude and disrespectful

[@roxienatura]

Barrett was more informed on the issues than a lot of other panelists tbh, he just didn’t cower when some of them started spouting misinformation. Which I guess is off putting, but that misinformation needed to be checked.

[@geeunit831]

@@void405 I was saddened to see how rude and condescending a lot of the Liberals on the panel were. Especially Barrett and the red head. We're never going to bridge that gap when we can't even have a civil discussion about such important topics. In order to make change we need to work together. The Libs were so divisive and came across petulant and immature.

[@BruceDevlin-y2n]

I am straight male. But I was astounded at the number of conservative gay & lesbian people at the company I work for. Just about everyone very conservative.

[@babyboy770]

This video shows that no community is monolithic. There are so many layers and experiences in every community. Too bad not enough of these types of conversations don't happen in real life.

[@cutirose]

LGB is sexuality/attraction & TQ+ is gender identity. Sex can never change. Most straight people do want a fully working organ, in my opinion those that date trans are not completely straight. Also most want to be pregnant and have biological kids of both of both of them.

[@christiegriffith4048]

They used to but now we have shows like the View and radicals who can’t even have a civil conversation without stooping to very low levels it’s sad and shows where we are.🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🏻

[@shortourt14]

one of the better middle grounds in a while. Actually a productive conversation rather than *debate*

[@dudeorduuude5211]

It was a debate that had a conversational style dude

[@c4rtii3r]

@@dudeorduuude5211facts they was literally arguing comment we replying to trippin 😂

[@cutirose]

LGB is sexuality/attraction & TQ+ is gender identity. Sex can never change. Most straight people do want a fully working organ, in my opinion those that date trans are not completely straight. Also most want to be pregnant and have biological kids of both of both of them.

[@pikminologueraisin2139]

so a real debate

[@STasugx]

Are you saying debates can’t be cordial and productive? Just because most of it felt conversational doesn’t mean it wasn’t a debate.

[@Meli-1992]

Clarkson is so respectful and well spoken. Really enjoyed this discussion.

[@lemontool]

Yes!

[@thomaspeterson6097]

Fr he's my type

[@hbicolenna6745]

He’s not respectful on his tiktok lol

[@eric5735]

Ew no

[@That_Grem_Kuro]

He’s not respectful at all. He is extremely condescending and privileged in how he speaks on the issues

[@iremulkuyldrm3151]

I watched a lot of Middle Ground and this is the only one where people actually discussed with an open mind and exchanged ideas, not just fight fight fight. Thank you gentleman!

[@kalamari3288]

Ben Shapiro vs Destiny seems like an amazing video waiting to happen. Glad Jubilee is willing to facilitate a video like that!

[@TheDarangatang]

Shapiro vs Hasan would be better imo.

[@zigurdur92]

@@TheDarangatangthree way Hasan vs Ben vs Destiny

[@bkbobbyjoe6493]

@@TheDarangatangI think Hassan self admittedly doesn’t have the debate talent to be able to keep up with someone fast like Ben

[@yolkthosenuts]

@@zigurdur92 i'd love to see a threeway will those hunks

[@Thehistoricalphilosopher]

@@bkbobbyjoe6493 why do you think that?

[@VLT.]

I think something that made everything go wrong in this episode was someone being unable to stay silent and listen even if they disagreed strongly to what was being said. If you want your point to be heard and understood, you have to make people WANT to listen to you. If you interject when someone is trying to talk time and time again, people aren’t gonna take you seriously or want to listen to you. This is a lesson for everybody.

[@driftingdandelion]

fr that guy was so annoying

[@devonferris]

You are referring to BARRETT. Yea I found him annoying too and disrespectful.

[@Yodaddi_13]

Typical example of a emotional guided liberal…

[@drastically143]

It was disgusting. Two of them can't listen and other making faces, disgusting. You do not do conversations like that. UPD. But i need to say that in other instances everyone was respectful and polite and i think i'm overreacting to this one instance. The ending was very pleasant.

[@VLT.]

@@devonferrisJust to clarify, I fully understand why he’d be livid about the fact that they passed a law that harms kids because of a very little portion of people who regretted their decisions. Me personally I’d be angry as well. But after the first or even the second time I’ve been told to hold back until it’s my turn, I’d shut my mouth so I can get my point out. Barrett messed up heavily by interrupting several times. While I understand him, he executed it in the wrong way.

[@PizzaFvngs]

Everyone was so respectful except for Denim Vest dude, straight up arrogance all around. Dude has one of the most passive aggressive superiority complexes I've personally seen on this channel.

[@Holyspiritwithinme]

His ig is scary rn too, it feels unsafe

[@terrancecloverfield6791]

For the record to other people. The person in context is Barrett. I don't think he's arrogant but it's clear he hasn't been chin-checked by the knuckles of reality that don't like being interrupted while talking. Mario did a great job holding back because in another reality, the chin-checking would have happened.

[@jackhongwilkins]

Its always the white gays

[@Naadeneo]

Like Idiotacracy he only cares for his hair and erections.

[@Naadeneo]

What's more he blocked Amir and Clarkson, crap talked Mario, then on Tiktok said he cried on the way home

[@mariococco5779]

Appreciate how respectful everyone was and in those moments of heated discussion, how each checked the other.

[@marcmoon1228]

For me being gay is simply being attracted to my same sex. Anything more than that is just the culture made by gay people which I necessarily dont have to participate in.

[@sammyurom8399]

Exactly 💯

[@Paul2377]

True, but I still find I have an affinitiy with a lot of gay people (not all), mostly due to a lot of shared experiences. Straight people can be allies, but they'll never truly get it like another gay person will.

[@johnindigo5477]

​@@Paul2377facts

[@emir5009]

Yep

[@maryk3038]

well the attraction to genders is also a cultural made up thing. being gay is attraction to your same sex...

[@LitithsClaptrap]

I'm so glad Clarkson and Amir were on this panel. They always bring such nuance to a conversation.

[@XpeteypoisonX]

Clarkson gives uncanny valley vibes

[@WinterStones]

when i saw amir i fangirled

[@viewer409]

Totally agree!

[@erenjaeger1738]

​@@XpeteypoisonXHe's very chill. He just have a baby face lol

[@tonywood1969]

All I saw was his white privilege.

[@michmeisterr]

This has to be the smartest, most respectful, wholesome Jubilee debate (so far). Can't wait for the lezzie edition to drop.

[@80sgirlwhamduran]

I'm not part of the LGBTQI+ community, but I feel like the lesbian aspect isn't as contentious as the other areas. Not having a stronger divide as the Gay, Bi, or Trans aspects. In that community but also in society.

[@IsraelLlerena]

Lezzie edition lmsoooo

[@lauracortes7720]

@@80sgirlwhamduran I feel like it could potentially be extremely contentious because when I think of conservative lesbians I think of TERFs, would be an interesting episode

[@80sgirlwhamduran]

@lauracortes7720 I hear you, I just wonder if that contention is more from Cis women and trans women than specifically with Lesbians and Trans women.

[@JeanKulacek-france]

Nah. Everyone is saying that but in the third point the liberals were SO punchable, they made me so angry. How can you say that you are ashamed of a complete stranger??!! That’s so self-righteous. They didn’t let Mario talk that actually made me wanna bury them alive

[@yasminchan7425]

I really like Clarkson, he's very well-spoken, open minded and seems like a nice chill dude

[@FoxyGal18]

Wow, I'm amazed that half of the gay liberals agree with the gay conservatives on how the gay community has become over sexualized. I hope that's a sign for positive change to come.

[@Forge17]

It’s unspoken but that’s been the majority opinion for a while in the circles I’ve been in.

[@vp9549]

It's straight people that have oversexualized the very existence of gay people. This has always been the case.

[@swedishfish6505]

I think you would be surprised at how much you would actually agree with someone who may stand on the opposite side.

[@soph1645]

I thinl gay pwople know they have been over sexualized for a long time😂

[@mary-janereallynotsarah684]

I hope so too! ❤

[@samantharodgers8312]

Over-sexualization is a human problem, just like violence. Look at all the issues they're having in Japan with pornography, we need to learn to start taking sex more seriously and understanding it has effects on our minds that we don't quite understand yet and we need to do more research into.

[@pepps1943]

What's up with Japan??

[@euphoricmonk]

What issues are they having with Porno in Japan?? It's mostly a hidden culture, in the US you see hookers on main streets.

[@keyoimani]

@@euphoricmonkLook up Hentai. End of sentence.

[@Maliceless100]

Survival of the fittest. Over sexualization is there for us to reject or embrace; some will inevitably suffer its harms.

[@samantharodgers8312]

@@Maliceless100 well I guess in your view then we should just legalize everything. Unfortunately you can't progress a society that way.

[@The_Moderates_Apprentice]

The harsh reality is that its a game of optics. A group tends to be defined by its worst actors in the eyes of those not in the group. This is true of any group. You may not like it, but that's life. So when the dude said "We have a responsibility to police our own community". I see this as possibly the most underrated statement of the entire episode.

[@Titanhex]

While everything you've said is true, the context changes under the conditions of the hegemony. When your group is not the hegemony, then your attention to optics is not under a stringent obligation to be as clean as possible. And if you have ire from the hegemony, that obligation to optics becomes near impossible to meet. Take a Christian hegemony for example. Keep that in mind.

[@cryofpaine]

@@Titanhex You'll never win the approval of the extremist conservatives. But there are those who don't have strong opinions one way or another, who could be influenced with a strong impression. If that impression is negative, they might side with opponents. So making a positive impression is important for winning over those on the fence. And that doesn't have to meet an impossible standard, just one that those who don't live in an extremist bubble would find reasonable.

[@michaelknight2897]

@@TitanhexI agree to a certain extent, however, hegemony is not required to adopt standards of behavior deemed appropriate for the society you are part of. We call out extreme deviations when they occur in other groups. The core issue is Progressivism considers non-CIS identities are sacred and therefore there is no standard of behavior as they can do no wrong and can never be criticized.

[@lloydgush]

A group isn't really defined by it's worst actors. But by what it allows the worst actors to do, specially if it shields the worst actors.

[@infinitum8558]

Exactly. These fools are too fixated on "being rebellious" that they don't want to think how that plays out long term.

[@anastasiakorkova9175]

WOW! very productive, mature adult conversation. They all listened and tried to understand where the other side was coming from! A couple times emotion got the better of them, but they immediately got it in check, apologized, and the person getting yelled at stayed totally calm and didnt yell back. On so many of these, when two people start yelling at each other, everybody else starts yelling, instead of trying to lower the temperature.

[@paulmacharia458]

"I'll clean my house before I tell someone else to clean there's" WHAT A QUOTE

[@binaryvoid0101]

Public events outside the queer community are not 'straight lanes' where only straight people can discuss and criticize. "Straight" is not a culture or a community, therefore, it has no metaphorical house in comparison to queer culture and community. Since queer people are members of the public, we can discuss/criticize public indecency in any public non-queer-themed event.

[@wookiedude21]

These are the kind of conversations people need to be having, and we need to remember that communication is the first step in cooperation. Great job, Jubilee!!

[@Babay0ga]

This was a great discussion - I felt Kai was the bridge here for all and he was so beautifully spoken and calm

[@WhatsCookingTime]

Yeah I noticed that too

[@theblackuy]

Wow finally i find some gays are sharing the same thoughts and ideas i can tell i'm a conservative gay

[@RhumpleOriginal]

You don't have a title. Don't hole yourself into one group. Go and collect data and make informed decisions about everything and don't let someone take the easy route and try to label you.

[@graftme3168]

Whenever someone says, "shame on you" in a debate, he has told everyone else that his opinion is superior and has shut down everyone else's opinion. He cannot be taken seriously from that point on. I would never debate that guy and nobody else should either. He has issues and nobody can break through a guy like that.

[@tomhayes413]

Can't blame him for saying that tho

[@graftme3168]

@@tomhayes413 I guess that's a matter of opinion.

[@zach6138]

he expressed emotion and also became very self aware and apologized for stepping over his own line there

[@GwyndOwO]

​@@graftme3168it's not. Being proud that you're the reason why a girl k*lled herself because whilst all of her girl peers were getting breasts but she was getting a beard, that is inherently monstrous and should be shamed

[@ripplenipple1494]

This entire comment section is full of people concluding that just because something is icky, it’s bad. To everyone who feels that way: your feelings aren’t basis for public policy. Stfu and get over it

[@taylorwalkden1723]

I really appreciate how respectful most everyone was! Barrett had a really horrible attitude since the first minute and I wasn’t a huge fan of how disrespectful Ryan was towards Mario, but REALLY appreciated the quick self reflection and apology. He seemed very genuine! I really appreciate the fact that Mario and Clarkson are very firm in who they are and passionate about what they believe in!

[@ethanbenjamin2254]

some people, like mario, need to be disrespected and silenced. not every opinion is valid, not every opinion should be shared.

[@erenjaeger1738]

​@ethanbenjamin2254 the truth hurts. He's preventing de Trans. Dumbashhss

[@itsdove]

@@ethanbenjamin2254 Yours is a perfect example.

[@dragames]

@@ethanbenjamin2254 Thus you become a person worth not listening to. Anyone who then immediately dismisses detrans people are not doing something for 'being liberal' or 'to be kind'. You're doing it because you're indoctrinated to an ideology. Otherwise, you'd care about detrans people too.

[@a-man3179]

​@@ethanbenjamin2254why the authoritarian attitude?

[@jellybelly9662]

I love how Clarkson is so well-spoken and can see multiple sides to a topic .

[@Matthew9203]

💯

[@rottenbabylon]

He's a horrible person with an anti lgbtq agenda

[@WhatsCookingTime]

I was most impressed by him of the whole group

[@paultrumble8110]

I felt Clarkson was naive and would have a totally different perspective if he was gay in the 80's

[@h.m.bergman5185]

well, it's not the 80s anymore@@paultrumble8110

[@nathanbergfelt1028]

This was the most productive and reasonable discussion I've seen from this channel so far when pulling people from different perspectives.

[@gummynoodles9036]

Probably the best group of people that’s ever been invited 😂

[@eugenetswong]

I think that the rival gangs episode was the best.

[@shuttershots2188]

Except Barrett. He was so rude.

[@gabmaye]

Agreed, this was an excellent group!

[@RaineMateo]

The group of religious leaders and scientists was the best group invited on my opinion. It's sad tho that it was short

[@malbasedvalentine3210]

Except the title is misleading…there was literally no conservative in this video. All of them were liberal, and the “conservatives” were merely cleaner liberals.

[@BusyAcreHomestead]

As a straight person, I don’t even want to see straight people full nudity in public. This is such a wonderful debate. I loved watching it. Thank you for educating many of us.

[@binaryvoid0101]

Though, the truth is, no matter how much straight people do exactly the same and much much worse, this issue will still be framed as a Pride Parade issue. Why is public indecency only brought up when queer people do it? As if music festivals, tailgating parties, Mardi Gra, public events NEVER existed.

[@heyitgeg]

​​@@binaryvoid0101Honestly, it really just proves that some people fill find any reason to vilify the gay community, because as you said there are plenty of events that straight people have that have pretty much the same indecent acts within them. If people really have a problem with pride parades they should atleast be consistent and hold that same attitude towards mardi gras and events of the like.

[@Kedium_Speaks]

@@heyitgeg How about nobody Gets naked in public especially with kids.. period.. Who cares if some side gets vilified more.. Its should not be an option

[@heyitgeg]

@@binaryvoid0101 If you read my comment you would see that my opinion is that everyone should be held to the same standard. Of course no one should be naked in front of children, but its obvious that the only reason people are getting up in arms specifically when its the LGBT is because they have problems with them to begin with.

[@ONI09100]

@@binaryvoid0101 people who have an issue with this kind of thing will agree with you and say it dosent matter who is doing it because it dosent they are thinking about the kids not the gay or trans community. they couldn't give two shits about them its the content they are opposed to its just the trans community have put them selves into the spotlight so naturally that's where the focus is going to go. change the question to do you think pop music and culter is to sexulised and you would get simerler replys except that fight has been fort and lost.

[@Qichiquiche]

I like Brett as a content creator but he is a prime example of why shower debates don’t work. When you spend the majority of your time making statements and arguments in an empty room to a phone you don’t have the experience needed to sit and listen and meet people where they’re at.

[@zavixonhd4347]

a debate isnt a conversation

[@Qichiquiche]

@@zavixonhd4347 yeah. A shower debate in this case is just referring to when you have arguments, debates, conversations, back-and-forths, whatever you wanna call it, with no one who can respond to you in real time. My point still stands

[@Neo_Red_Pill]

Really supportive that you’re having this conversation

[@redcoresuperstar]

People like Barrett baffle me. How can you claim that you're so empathetic to trans people and in the same breath be so utterly heartless to the struggles of detransitioners?

[@zavixonhd4347]

bec detransitioners commonly use their platform to bash other trans ppl

[@TillerTH]

Virtue signaling

[@sup8056]

Because he tries to come off as very inclusive but he really isn't

[@minniemystic]

Kindof hard to be sympathetic towards a group of people being used to justify hate against an already marginalized group of people…

[@theseukonnen1200]

Conservatives do not genuinely care about detransitioners except to the extent that they can be used as a weapon against trans people. The anger is not with the detransitioners, it's with the bad faith. Ironically, the branch of medicine that would best serve the needs of the very small percentage of people who decide that detransitioning is correct for them would be best served by advancements in the medical technology of trans healthcare itself, which is precisely what the people pretending to care so much about detransitioners actively oppose.

[@castellongort]

Great episode! I do have to point out...oh Barret...what a clear example of someone that "listens" and "respects" your opinion but listens to nothing your saying

[@lydiacoates3911]

I would say he wasn’t listening, he was interrupting anything he didn’t agree with

[@VoVina111]

He's all beauty no brains

[@shelbyc7285]

yeah he came off so rude, I was surprised because I see him on TikTok often and he never seems like this.@@lydiacoates3911

[@ThinWhiteAxe]

yeah I got so frustrated with him

[@charlottegrace9240]

No he listened, he just didn’t agree with them. He doesn’t have to

[@WhatDooYouThinK]

Clarkson is an absolute champ. Hes able to show compassion, clear thought, and he gets his point across really well. Barett needs an uppercut.

[@noahmendez8032]

rolls reversed buddy

[@NomadicIsaac]

Yeah no

[@The.Ancient.1.]

Yeah Barrett is super annoying, his views are so extreme and actually dangerous, Barrett doesn't understand he is part of the problem.

[@AsqMagicka]

@@The.Ancient.1. explain the problem

[@iloveCH0C0LATE439]

​@@The.Ancient.1.Can you explain what you mean by him being part of the problem? I'm not judging your opinion, I'm just genuinely curious. :)

[@ryanciavarra6212]

Didn’t think that telling kids they can’t change their lives forever would be such a controversial opinion 💀

[@FAD4LIFE94]

Yeah lol Im so privileged I hit puberty before 2010

[@Stellamarie_7]

Yes just wait until your 18

[@011fairuzmaesha5]

barrett needs to get an upgrade on his patience level asap

[@charlottegrace9240]

Why?

[@WizardofAus97]

@@charlottegrace9240because everyone in the comments is laughing at his emotional intelligence of 0

[@charlottegrace9240]

@@WizardofAus97 if you truly think that then I worry for you

[@keith536]

@@charlottegrace9240 Shhhhh. You'll be OK.

[@skylar4775]

@@charlottegrace9240You’re the oddball here bud.

[@PatGeo95]

Barrett is one of those gays that ARE the problem with the homosexual community. You take one look at him and you already know this guy has an agenda and he's not here to have a civil conversation on middle ground. Not to mention he blocked Amir on social media which speaks volumes to what kind of a person he really is. Well done Amir and Clarkson, you two were the most sane in all of this.

[@Holyspiritwithinme]

He did a lot worse than that on his insta. Also his yelling outburst made me so triggered yesterday I could barely fall asleep 👍 he's terrifying yet claims to help victims what a double standard

[@f4gsforpele]

Spilllll

[@jackhongwilkins]

It's always the white gays.

[@hollow9846]

@@HolyspiritwithinmeAs a liberal, its acc so embarrassing.

[@TheMarcosutra]

he's blocked clarkson aswell now haha

[@YMDBass]

I really enjoy these conversations. I REALLY appreciated the guy in the floral kinda shirt, stood up defending someone he disagreed with to give him space to talk and that is something we need more of in todays discourse. I truly live by the "I may not agree with your opinion but I'll fight to the death for you to be able to have it". He was able to open the conversation up more than the guy who kept cutting off the person in heels (sorry, watched passively and didnt get the names). I admire the guy who was interrupting's passion but the end of the day that doesnt sway opinions while the guy in the floral shirt did a great job of actually changing my mind some, and I truly appreciate it.

[@Solararisa]

Ryan was definitely super respectful and found a middle ground most of the time. He was mature throughout the conversation.

[@machsimillian14]

Ryan was the most rational, science based individual there. He was also able to articulate his ideas well. If more people were like him (in terms of intellect and researching topics before speaking), our country would be a lot different.

[@rita8274]

I loved the conversation because it opened my eyes to both sides a bit more. I have some feelings about the subject, but it really helped me understand both sides a lot better. They were all (except the one who was really emotional) very respectful.

[@bubblegodanimation4915]

@rita8274 I know it's great. I do wish he brought up gynecomastia and other such thing in gender affirming care because bans on gender affirming care can even harm cis kids.

[@yoyobobi1722]

Ryan is gross. He is one of those ghb, meth gays that need everyone to see what they do in the bedroom.

[@tls4022]

50:50 Aw that was really sweet and wholesome to see that at the end of the day they love and respect one another and can agree to disagree together.

[@aaygeo]

People like Barrett is exactly why Jubilee needs to implement a penalty system when people talk out of line. Being argumentative and interruptive takes away from the conversation and in achieving a middle ground. Either play nicely or get benched.

[@longnguyeexn]

Exactly he gets on my nerves so bad. He’s the kind of reason why people hate gays.

[@fernandapires6472]

I don’t know if it has ever happened before, that they’ve benched someone disruptive but for a while I thought this was going to happen to Barrett.

[@chinenyenwamuoneke]

They should start handing out yellow/red cards

[@Puzzlesocks]

They can't punish a gay leftist on this show, that would be a good way to get brigaded by the woke mob.

[@saranguyen2788]

Exactly! He was getting on my nerves. I was like “shut up!” I wanna hear other people’s complete thoughts. Everytime he interrupted he derailed the conversation

[@boringmonkey6958]

I love the hypocrisies on display here. Ryan - "What about people who are born intersex?!" Also Ryan - "IT'S SUCH A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF TRANS PEOPLE WHO REGRET THEIR DECISION TO TRANSITION THAT DOESN'T COUNT". Like... Make it make sense, Ryan.

[@DaniHGirl]

Exactly. Plus it’s only a small KNOWN percentage because so many of those who regret it never return to their doctors to notify them. Not only that but I was surprised that Mario failed to mention (or at least it was edited out) that such a large percentage of kids who are allowed to go through a natural puberty end up realigning with their birth sex.

[@tomwright5379]

He’s being inclusive and not trying to restrict access or options nothing wrong there. He’s correct in both of his statements.

[@Zapery33]

@@tomwright5379thats not inclusive it’s just genetics

[@sd2pt314]

The difference between these 2 statements is that the first one is not a fault of a failed system, intersex people just exist as the statements also says, they are born with it, and therefore cannot be told exception just because they are not so crowded as oppose to the entire population. For the second one, people who regret transitioning exist due to failed regulations, incompetent doctors, uneducated parents etc., and therefore they are exceptions of a system. Still important and needs to be addressed because noone deserves to suffer, but the solution cannot be prohibition of gender affirming health care entirely, because what about the vast majority of people who benefit from that care. It is just simply ridicuolous to choose 3-4% "exceptions" over 96-97% people who need this, very basic. What this discussion was missing is coming up with solutions to even further reduce the number of wrongly transitioned people aiming for nobody to regret their transition eventually, e.g. via better education, better regulations, better support etc. You can still advocate for de-transitioners while supporting the trans fellas which are again the majority of people who benefits from this health care.

[@VoVina111]

GLAD OTHERS NOTICED IT. I WAS LIKE WTF?? He only cares when it's someone from their group, once they're detrans they suddenly don't matter!

[@stonewall5792]

As an American, I'm glad we're a country that can allow these discussions without getting criminalized.

[@Rein_]

there are states that want to ban discussions like this. american people aren't free like they claim they are.

[@stonewall5792]

@@Rein_ which states? It's literally illegal and unconstitutional to ban any type of speech.

[@YakDPOY]

@@stonewall5792 You said it yourself, its literally illegal and unconstitutional. So why be thankful enough to thank a youtube comment section lol. You had it before, have it now and will have it tomorrow. The constitution rejects your thanks on basis on softness

[@cahan557]

@@stonewall5792haven’t there been multiple controversies with gay teachers simply stating they have a same sex partner in school?

[@ericablu-y8z]

seriously. People have literally no idea, they could be in Russia or North Korea. Were not only they’re not allowed to be gay, but they’re literally not allowed to disagree or discuss topics. I swear some of these people blessed to be in the western world are so far out of touch with the reality of the freedom that we have. It’s so sad to see the lack of appreciation for our freedom

[@Tommcginn]

This was by and far the most respectful and well measured debate I've seen on this channel so far. Minimal yelling, minimal interruption and when one of those things did happen, people were reminded to wait their turn or called out for it. More debates like this need to happen.

[@underthegardenwall]

Why is Barrett even here? He's shaking his head at anybody who dares say anything that goes against his own views.

[@derrickc7]

People like him are why I started re-evaluating being a progressive. He can’t comprehend that a big reason there’s so much backlash against his values is because of the way he acts.

[@pebbles92able]

Because their views are disgusting

[@VoVina111]

I love how they mentioned intersex people as a valid reason for keeping the LGB and TQ+ united even when others told them it's a VERY small minority they said "they matter no matter how small" but when the guy in heels signed legislation to protect detransitioners they went straight to "it's just a small minority, who cares". As if those who suffer all their lives because of a permanent decision that they shouldn't have made as minors, don't matter enough to them. Makes you think huh

[@jarofrocks]

The things about this so-called hypocrisy is that when LGBTQ+ is all one community, it doesn't have the same negative effects that stopping kids from receiving gender affirming care creates. Sure, stopping that care can prevent de-transitioners from regretting their past choices, but it also stops many more well informed kids/families from receiving life saving care. Most trans kids aren't running around getting top surgery or bottom surgery, it is genuinely just not common. In the slightest. Puberty blockers are far more common, and, as they said in the video, cisgender children get those too. They also spoke about children who get nose-jobs and other plastic surgeries, which happens plenty often and isn't nearly as sensationalized. Keeping LGBTQ+ united while also giving kids gender affirming care is not a double standard.

[@tammy5466]

But that law didn't protect detransitioners. It attacked people who needed or wanted to transition. Protecting detransitioners would be making legislation that prevents people from being misdiagnosed or going through any malpractice.

[@TheKatherinesalvatie]

@@tammy5466how is denying transitioning until 18 legal adult an attack…?

[@VoVina111]

@@tammy5466 The law against affirming gender care for minors? That definitely does protect detransitioners because it significantly reduces the chance that more people will make permanent decisions as kids- when their hormones, self-esteem, and feelings are still evolving and fluid - thus giving them enough time to know if that's truly what they want in life. Once they reach 18 and still felt that way, there's no issue with them going through it. But if they reached 18 and their feelings had changed (as most do), then it was a win-win law that they got to wait until then. And before you say that puberty blockers are reversible and safe, they are not. We are now just discovering the long-term damages that they can cause such as osteoporosis and impaired fertility.

[@maxpieters7934]

I don't think they're particularly similar arguments. Support of rights and inclusion of intersex people doesn't drag down or harm any one else. However, for trans legislation, although it might lower the rate of detransitioners, it could also limit access to those who desperately need it. It is, unfortunately, an issue where the attempt to protect some can come at the expense of others, which is fundamentally a different problem than whether to support intersex inclusion or not.

[@heydiddlediddlethecatandth5251]

"Bisexual" is not a bad word. People can be bisexual. I agree with Amir and Clarkson on that. I know many bisexuals identify as straight or homo because it's easier to belong that way, and sometimes it's just less scary (if you're a bisexual that identifies as het). But bisexuality is not a bad thing or something to be ashamed of. It's natural, normal and far more common in human beings than people realize. If you are into both sexes, even if you aren't into them in equal intensity, you are bisexual. And it's not a bad thing! --a bisexual.

[@SammiRedeemed]

Anything outside of heterosexual is not normal or natural. We are created to reproduce, choosing a lifestyle against your creation is not normal. -an ex "bisexual"

[@Theworstaltinthesystem]

Yeah absolutely I think the number of bi people is waaaay higher than we think it is

[@Sjoyfonts]

As a bi woman, I completely agree. My boyfriend knows about my sexuality and guess what? He doesn’t care.

[@ThatSimmer0981]

I am bi but in a straight relationship and the hate i get from lesbians is insane.

[@zombies4evadude24]

There are more bi people than anyone else in the LGBTQ umbrella. We’re just invisible because people don’t know how to identify them for not fitting into one of two boxes. In that sense I think bisexuals, asexuals and trans people have more in common than people think. Not necessarily in specifics of experiences but the fundamental feeling of not fitting into a binary category of what people expect from you, whether socially, physically, etc.

[@IWFPYHTAW]

As someone who was a tomboy, I was also convinced by things online that told me I was trans. I was fully intending to transition when I turned 18 but laws prevented me from doing that/insurance didn’t cover it. Fast forward nearly a decade and I am so happy I wasn’t able to medically transition. I’m also glad they brought that up because I think it’s an important discussion to have.

[@DavidKen878]

A more important discussion that no one is bringing up is why kids today are so easily influenced into thinking they’re a different gender/orientation.

[@lesaaaaaaaaaaa]

They shouldve let Barrett and the red flower shirt guy have the conversation on their own cause clearly they came here with the mindset of "Im not gonna listen to anyone"

[@castellongort]

ESPECIALLY Barret...wow

[@myon9431]

By far the most annoying and dislikable ones

[@333Erin]

Barrett came with a bad attitude & was super defensive especially towards Clarkson & Mario. & then randomly asks Clarkson “do you want kids?” Lol Everyone else seemed to be super open minded & voiced their opinions without judgement. Kudos to Mario for taking that personal attack from Ryan & Barrett so well & maturely!

[@zakwood3094]

i wonder why a liberal gay would be defensive around conservatives? lol

[@CyanSpaceTurtle]

@@zakwood3094right lmfao, why would i feel defensive if one of my own is actively voting against our best interests??

[@dragunbaby1881]

Barrett was just 😅 idek, but Clarkson is my favourite in this whole conversation ❤

[@violetcakeoreo]

EXACTLY. Like it's one thing to keep your composure when you're talking to someone who isn't saying anything potentially threatening and highly damaging to huge communities, but being on the other side of that.. obviously one would lose their temper even if for just a moment.@@CyanSpaceTurtle@zakwood3094

[@DJ-yo9oi]

@@CyanSpaceTurtle Did they say which way they voted?

[@marinryan7970]

One of my big takeaways with Barrett is it doesn't feel as though he ever came to actually have an open conversation, and to think critically about salient opposing points being made. It only feels as though he took this conversation on debate style, not listening to others, and just trying to continue pushing his personal agenda. It just goes to show how difficult it is to create a space for dialogue when you're so unwilling to even hear what someone who disagrees with you has to say. Everything was in one ear and out of the other with Barrett, while he scoffs at, interrupts, and lacks decency to acknowledge his own wrongdoing and apologize. But yet wants everyone to hear what HE has to say. Really pitiful.

[@caimaccoinnich9594]

Almost as pitiful as Mario

[@s.xoxo.s4811]

I agree

[@AnnieL194]

@@vincentslashmarshall Being liberal literally means to respect individual autonomy and freedom of speech among other things. What Barret did was indeed very pitiful. Illiberal liberalism at its finest, look it up.

[@Essie314x]

Ryan aswell

[@DJ-yo9oi]

@@vincentslashmarshall It's not wild. Hateful people exist, for sure. I did not see them here. Calling people hateful has become a convenient way to avoid fielding questions/points that are not in line with one's argument.

[@blonde.andromeda]

this conversation was significantly more civil and educated than most of the other videos i’ve seen made in this context and i appreciate that a lot

[@saltydog7482]

People like Barett should not be invited if they are unable to let people speak. Interrupting constantly and talking over people does not befit a middle ground.

[@Platacartel]

I wish jubilee took people like barett out in real time because it kind of ruins the conversation for viewers.

[@anthill1510]

@@Platacartel Yes, Jubilee should have interfered earlier. I nearly stopped watching the video. I even have the same opinion as him, but that behavior was atrocious.

[@sm1purplmurderedme583]

he’s SO annoying

[@JBee887]

Mario also tried speaking over people multiple times, he wasn't as heated, but he still did it. Does this not make Mario the same?

[@Future_Imperfect]

As a black person watching PRIDE is like if there was a parade to commemorate Black History and people engaged in the most offensive stereotypes that exist to celebrate.

[@Lawlstube]

"Annnnnnd here comes the KFC and Hennessy float"

[@swiggity6232]

ngl that would be fire lmao

[@nyctophillia2312]

Lol they already did it I think last year. This school served chicken and watermelon for Juneteenth and the parents were pissed 😂😂😂

[@millsykooksy4863]

😂

[@HateBear-real]

@@nyctophillia2312 based

[@mrgreenguy5193]

I'm very liberal, and I'm finding myself agreeing with the conservatives more often than not here

[@itsnatemate7697]

I’m generally asking. With what?

[@cinnamon7435]

I'm conservative and I agree with liberals we don't need to split all our ideals into boxes

[@mrgreenguy5193]

@@itsnatemate7697 I havn't finished the video yet, but so far I agree with the fact that the conversation around orientation and pride has been way too sexualized. I think there is a pretty big difference between the lgb and the tqi, and that just throwing it all together doesn't really serve anyone.

[@CaptainChapin]

@@mrgreenguy5193 trans people have received more advocacy and support being included into the LGBTQ category than they ever were on their own…. That includes nonbinary people as well.

[@itsnatemate7697]

@@mrgreenguy5193 You clearly didn’t even watch the video though. Splitting the two would be way more harmful to other people that don’t fall into those specific labels. They literally talked about this