Doom Metal Amps: GT120 VS OR120 Explained

[@Alexroberts666]

I have a master volume OR120 - I definitely think that the master volume dial is quite limited in its usefulness - if you're somebody who gets your core tone from pedals, the master volume control is going to *really* change your tone. If you turn it down when you're not using amp gain, it makes your tone mushy, kind of like it's scooping the mids except not in a satisfying way. The master volume control is great if you want to use the amp's own gain (and I highly recommend using just a little bit of pedal overdrive to drive it - the amp gain really doesn't tend to like 'fuzz') but, honestly, although it sounds great, it's not to everybody's tastes. Especially if you do want a bit of a mid-scoop because the OR120's gain itself is *all* mids, and by taking mids away in your pedal chain (as there's no fx loop) is going to take away a lot of gnarly distortion away from the OR120. Either you learn to love the mids and you use the OR120's own distortion with the master volume in use, or you use 100% your own dirt, scoop away mids with some EQ and run the amp clean.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Thanks for sharing your first hand experience Alex!!

[@zastruga]

Sleep's -holy mountain LP 1992 had a note saying 'if you have orange amplification for sale contact sleep through earache records'

[@the_trash_mane5875]

Mike uses a fuck ton of Orange amps, he goes through them like mad.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

that is so awesome!

[@Slamster1996]

Doom metalheads are like scientists in metal community

[@DoesItDoom]

Really enjoyed this video Jason. Fun to see you revisit this topic! Loved the gain / EQ pedal stacking analogy as compared to the FAC / James EQ, really makes sense when comparing the tone of a GT120 with an OR120. Great stuff!!

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Thanks Steve! Your demo really shows off how these amps sound!

[@kennyjohnson336]

@@FuzzlordEffects You 2 guys can't be in the same place at the same time, you'll break the Stoner/Doom multiverse

[@mikekoenig6467]

I thought you 2 were the same person at different times lol

[@TheMiddleAgedMusician-mc6xo]

Grew up in the 80s with the metal scene of that time, but steeped in 60s and 70s hard rock. In the early 90s, I ran across a local band in central Illinois using Orange and HiWatts - Hum. Not necessarily stoner or doom, but worth checking out when you can catch one of there rare live shows these days.

[@idiosyncraticmushroom3030]

Hum are so fucking sweet!! Hiwatts as doom or doom-ish amps is rlly cool !!

[@alexacid1598]

I ordered a Matamp Gt120 MV in july of 2020, 30 days later it showed up at my door and I never looked back, amazing amplifier!

[@FuzzlordEffects]

That is so awesome!

[@lowqualityguitarvideos]

One of the most unique circuits out there for sure. That FAC is a fun thing for shaping extreme tones.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Both such amazing amps!

[@HowlinTubes]

Thank you for this! You just saved me a lot of time trying to find schematics and such to understand what sets apart Orange and Matamp from other British amps of the 70s.

[@thebudge333]

I’ve had a ‘72 OR120 NMV for about 16 years. I’ve got a couple videos up. Love the amp.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Badass!

[@Yeti_Boop]

I just came here to say I love the way the doom community tends to support one another and give shoutouts and links to other pages. That said, you and Steve put out quality content. Much love.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

cheers James!

[@peterb7435]

Thanks Jason. Awesome vid as usual

[@ThathousecatSHC]

Great video, all the basic nuts and bolts and now I understand the difference and similarities. Would like to see more of these one similar amps as a series.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

let me know what amps you'd be interested in hearing about!

[@russiangoose7053]

I really love these style of videos explaining vintage amps, please do more about other popular doom amps like Sunn, Laney, hiwatt, etc. Especially comparing different amps within the same brand like Sunn model T vs 100s, etc. Thanks so much for your content it's super informative to aspiring amp builders who love heavy music like myself

[@michaelorourke7032]

Great video, thank you Jason for explaining the difference in both of these amazing amps. Until I discovered Sleep in the mid 90's I had never heard of Matamp. I knew little of Orange as well until 2005 when they started showing up for sale in more abundance. Each amp has it's own voice, I have tried both and if it came down to choosing one I would not be able to. They both are incredible. I wish there was a lower watt version of the GT120, I'd buy one in a second. Steve's demo on Does it Doom really showcases both amps. If you havent seen it I highly recommend you check it out.

[@dh5088]

Thanks for this! I have a NM OR120 Matamp built reissue that I love. Great info to have on it.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

glad you liked it man!

[@Casusin]

Nice video, and very instructive!

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Thanks for watching!

[@chickencreekproductions]

I had the oppourtunity to buy a -73 OR120 from a friend a while ago. He had his eyes set on a Taylor acoustic, so when I explained that this beast would be better of blasting stoner riffs with me he could see the logic in selling it to me. Now he plays a beatiful acoustic, and I couldn’t be happier! I just love the crunch/rock sound it offers, and holy moly… When pushing it with a Rat/octaver it’s mindblowing goodness. Awesome amp, just awesome! Thanks for the video 👍

[@FuzzlordEffects]

That’s so awesome that you got ahold of one!!

[@mistershabadoo]

I’ve got a heavily modded 5e3 clone, but I had no idea that the Green/Orange shared power characteristics with it! That’s really cool! Jason, thanks so much for continuing to impart your knowledge! I’ve learned a lot from you since I started following your channel! Keep crushing it! Cheers!

[@batshitmasterplan]

Scott Holiday of Rival Sons used an OR120 when recording their LP “Pressure and Time”. Scott used to play through Rockerverbs, OR50s, and Custom Shop 50’s, but now he is using a Helix to emulate his amps and effects

[@omegapumkin9702]

I'm recording a new local band the guitars came in with an or120 and a ac30. 8 string in hand with a massive board of just fuzz pedals. Not going to lie it's sounding really good I'm surprised at the combination. But if it works

[@djohnson2499]

AC30 is an awesome amp for pedals. Guitarist in my band (more stoner than doom) uses an AC30 and it's heavy as hell, both literally and figuratively

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Damn that is a setup!

[@Tsudkyk]

I never considered an AC30 for heavy tones- I have always looked at that amp for it’s clean tones.

[@omegapumkin9702]

@@Tsudkyk it's my go to for cleans and stoner but ever since I had them in I've been using my 8 strings on it and it just works for heavy fuzzy stuff.

[@ushnicyuvnikof2748]

A30 is lovely.

[@palmmoot]

Hello from Vermont Jason. Sunless Effects makes the Cold Lands which is a Matamp preamp pedal. There is also the Kuro T120.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

I'll have to check those out!

[@nigelbishop8108]

Thanks so much for the video man, really informative and definitely not too simplified for me 😁. Would love to see more of these explanations of prominent amps in the stoner/doom genres.🤘🤘

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Thanks for watching and I'll try to do another soon. Any suggestions?

[@nigelbishop8108]

@@FuzzlordEffects Sunn, Hiwatt, Laney - whatever you can get your hands on. Even a comparison between say the OR120 and Rockerverb 100 or Thunderverb would be cool. Really interested to understand more about the different builds and how it creates their unique sounds.

[@alexandrefamiliari4073]

Thanks a lot for the video man ! Personally, I would really like more "in depth" and technical videos about circuits, parts, etc.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Thanks for watching!!

[@Ankhrea]

Is the master volume just inserted into the circuit without changing the amp in other significant ways? It would be interesting to see if a switchable bypass could be put in to go around the master volume so you could toggle between them

[@barryhoobs1]

You're talking about the Matamp GT1. It's a little different than the GT120, but has a master volume mode, and a non master mode.

[@nickmetal131]

Over a year ago, I played through an early 70s 0R120 and fell in love with the sound. It led me to Matamp. The only problem is I talked myself into getting a GT2 instead of a GT120NMV. Don't get me wrong because the GT2 is an awesome amp, but sonically different. A week and a half ago, I ordered a GT120NMV to fix that mistake. Can't wait to make massive sounds with it!

[@lance___]

How's the new amp?

[@ampturcoguitarwerks]

Pepers Pedals Green Pepers pedal is a matamp preamp with a treble booster as well. Both the treble booster and the matamp pre can be used independently or together. Killer pedal.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

I bet it sounds killer and thanks for watching man!

[@RiffHarvester]

Great video! I've always wondered what the difference was? Now we know!

[@FuzzlordEffects]

thanks for watching!

[@dunelanddoomroom7649]

Great vid!

[@FuzzlordEffects]

thanks guys!

[@sanfordsanford295]

Great breakdown

[@FFGG22E]

I love your videos. Good stuff.

[@explodeder]

I have a 90s reissue OR80. I’m in Portland and would love to know the difference between the originals and the 90s reissues that were built by matamp.

[@djohnson2499]

From what I've heard, nothing. They were literally pulling out old parts that had been in the shop since the 70s and just resumed putting them together

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Matamp is still a badass small custom shop putting out very well made amps! They kick ass and make many different models. The insides of them are well designed and very asthetically pleasing for any tech to see!

[@explodeder]

@@FuzzlordEffects Mine has been in the shop for about a month trying to track down an intermittent issue. Even though mine is a reissue, it's still a 30 year old amp.

[@MrBikboi]

I'm rocking a madshall dsl40c. I've been tempted for a while to splurge for an orange or 15 head for my next big purchase. The tone of an orange value amp is just fantastic. I also think they're the most aesthetically pleasing amps and cabs as well.

[@josephwasserman4066]

Thanks for making this video. The OR120 is also great for mean twangy tones. I use a 90s OR120 on the recordings for my band ‘ta bien’. Feel free to hear the tones on bandcamp or Spotify. I mention this because it’s used in a slightly different context. I’m exclusively using the neck pickup on a nocaster in drop B. I have two 90s OR120s and an OTR120. I have two dual dark 100s as well.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

What do you think of the OR120 vs the OTR120? Will check out Ta Bien thanks!

[@eltipo6651]

Hey, brother. Sorry for the delayed response. I was waiting to do a proper A/B comparison, full volume. Each head into two orange 4x12s. At identical settings (in this case with the master at 10 on the OTR to essentially or almost disengage it) and the gain knob on each head slightly past noon…the OR 120 sounds more clear, articulate, and chimey. However, if I back of the gain knob about two notches on the OTR to say about 10 and a half o’clock, they sound identical! I take from this that the OTR just inherently has more preamp gain, mine at least does. Granted lots of variables to account for. (Pre amp tubes and such). That being said the OTR, as you probably deduced, can allow you to dime the gain to ten and back the master off slightly to get a saturated smoother sound, that you can’t achieve on a non master volume head. Am interesting comparison would be an OTR120 vs an Overdrive 120. Cheers brother.

[@eltipo6651]

@@FuzzlordEffectsJason! Dude, my previous answer regarding the OTR vs the OR was framed with an overdrive in front. I recently started using the OTR120 without pedals. Let me tell you, what a delight!! I have the gain almost dimed and slightly backed off in the master. I can achieve that saturation that I would on an OR120 with a pedal, but since the OTR120 is being run without pedals. It still sounds THICK. The OTR will now be my Main amp live. Also, I had a buddy of mine who designs amps at EVH look at circuit diagrams of the overdrive 120 and the OTR120. Essentiallly the OTR is tighter and brighter than the overdrive, but im gonna paste his response below. Your videos rule dude. -joey “The 22 uF lets the preamp sag a little less. Subtle if anything. The 0.068 to 0.022uF shifts the input stage low roll off up over an octave. So it will be tighter no matter what. The 330 pF instead of the 1500 pF takes a lot of high mids out of the treble shed and the 0.022 instead of the 0.010 for the CCW end of the treble control shifts the high end roll off up a couple of octaves. Bright cap on volume removed… so righter low end response and high mids shift up at the front of the preamp. Less bright so better low gain dialing, but thicker/flatter gain. The FAC is identical so the second stage is identical.”

[@Intaminator]

Kuro makes the T120 pedal (which even has the FAC control). I really want one.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Would like to play one someday!

[@HollisAudioLabs]

Another MATAMP GT120 style pedal is the Ananashead GT73 Overdrive Matamp GT120 version. I have that one and it sounds really good into my Laney LA-Studio amp a 3 watt monster to record.

[@rk28984]

Great video! Maybe do a Sunn Model T vs Laney AOR video also!

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Deal!

[@PooNinja]

Very cool info Sir

[@FuzzlordEffects]

thanks for watching!

[@DemonKingOFFICIAL]

Cathodyne PI’s are very interesting to me. The fact that they only need one triode for the task is awesome.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

so cool right?!?

[@adamr2684]

Great video! Perfect explanation imo. We use a OR120 clone with Mater Volume made by Ted Weber speakers. Perfect amp with fuzz. TEAM HOSS!

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Thanks Adam!!

[@SwiftyMcswifty]

Can you expand about the voicing differences between the two? Is it FAC/EQ placement or cap values that change the voicings? Do both FACs filter the same frequencies at each notch? I like the voicing a bit better from Orange, more punch, more mid focused, and not so fuzzy, but I like the clean and very low gain from Matamp better.

[@mikerauter1859]

Awesome as usual Jason! Can I ask do you think a standard JCM800 is usable for Doom Metal?

[@FuzzlordEffects]

I think I have one in another amp shootout on the channel! Short answer yes 🙌

[@grahamcollins2350]

Buddy a JCM800 can do anything you want it to do but play quietly

[@JeffBarberDigideus]

I saw Boss Keloid on tour in the UK recently and their guitarist has a "Green" Matamp head and stack. They have a pretty unique guitar tone on the "Family The Smiling Thrush" album. go check out the video for "Gentle Clovis"

[@Daryl2rombino]

Any way to mod the Orange to toggle switch the order of stages so it sounds more like the Green? To perhaps have the best of both worlds on a toggle? Sorta like the changing pedal order analogy

[@MichaelRagen]

Check out Blackhawk Amplifiers’ Odin pedal that’s “Matamp” style. The bass boost on it is excellent.

[@maxnorton4893]

Matamp cleans are criminally underrated.

[@parkkingery9216]

Great info

[@FuzzlordEffects]

cheers Park!

[@parkkingery9216]

@@FuzzlordEffects cheers!

[@veyuslavic2590]

It is hard to figure which one to get....so I got both lol.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

best idea ever!

[@Fallingoverbackwards]

What are the 4x12 cabinets you recommend vs matching these amps to torpedo IR

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Something with Fane speakers would do well for the Orange, Matamps site says Celestion V Type speakers. You can download the Fuzzlord IR sample pack and check out some of my cabs cheers!

[@C0nnie]

not necessarily a matamp style pedal (go fet120!,) but I hear the Wampler Ratsbane gets crazy. Love from NY

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Nice!!!!

[@MichaelSmith-gd1ig]

Very clear explanation. Much appreciated. I’m starting to get into these genres and I already have a 1981 JCM 800 2203. I really don’t want to get rid of it, so do you have any suggestions for getting the best doom tone from a Marshall amp with less low end?

[@YanomamoDoomo]

I have a Matamp GT120MV & a '73 OR120 ... both amazing but very different amps. The OR120 has a grind that I've never heard in any otehr amp & LOVES dirt pedals. The GT120MV gets filthy on its own but loves to be boosted by a Rat or similar

[@JoshJones73]

Someone needs to cover the GTL series. I have a GTL140, and know little to nothing about it other than it sounds AWESOME. I say 140, as thats what it puts out when tested.

[@Stpddmbfck]

I‘m wondering what the different inputs on the matamp do? Nobody seems to talk about these or mention the difference. Is there any?

[@FuzzlordEffects]

From what I understand it’s just a lo and hi gain input like a fender, so a lower impedance and less volume going into the first preamp stage.

[@Stpddmbfck]

@@FuzzlordEffects thanks for the reply Jason. that’s what I heard as well, which one is which though? I see people playing both inputs and hardly talk about these.

[@simonesaccheri3397]

Kuro Custom Audio makes the T120 which is probably the closest you'll ever get to a Matamp sound in a pedal.

[@malcolmmckenzie5959]

Many more famous guitarists have used these amps, but I used both a 1976 OR1120 (master vol) and a 1973 Matamp GT100 on my bands 2nd album: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGO1eJxml9x_hJI&ab_channel=666MrDoom

[@FuzzlordEffects]

cheers Malcom and thanks for the link!

[@l5e2n9]

Lifespiral-MJR used The Orange

[@c.f.pedraza4057]

How do these compare to ELECTRIC USA?

[@immyownbestfriend9338]

does that make sense?

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Does anything 😃

[@chrissteinbeck1734]

Great video! I have a GT120 MV and love it. I went with that one to not piss my wife off. 🤣 Anyway, how do you think a FET120 would interact with a dirty GT120 MV?

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Good call haha! Hopefully someone will use one in a demo!

[@chriscurran1967]

Great video Jason!!! I’m a solid state guy myself, tubes sound great, don’t get me wrong. Way to expensive, way to heavy, weight wise I mean. Now a days solid state amps sound just as good, at least to me. The new Orange models are pretty awesome. Keep up the great work man!!!🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Thanks for watching Chris! The new oranges are really good 🤘

[@matthewJ142]

The godfather of doom. Tonni Iommi

[@AleisterthemungerSTOKE]

I can't believe you say the GT120 is a high gain amp of it's time? holy shit Matthias designed it for jazz guitarists to get ultra clean tones from their headroom haha i've had at least 6 different matamps over the years including a reworked slave in a green sleeve GT120 which was fundamentally the same as what sleep got in the 90s aswell as a white front 70s GT120. matamp was a holy grail amp for me to get for many years but i never got on with them fully. I always preferred Laney Klipps and supergroups. eventually i came up with my own circuit idea and built my own amps using old carlsbro transformers and modified circuits based around the carlsbro TC and 100 top amps. matamp GT120s from the 70s were not at all reliable when pushed full volume. you'd get the sound but the tubes would soon be compromised.. and i'm not saying Laneys were any more reliable either the HT voltage was absolutely limit for el34 tubes on those hence the Iommi tone. i guess thats where i realised the carlsbro amps with partridge transformers were the real deal for me at least. those old amps need a ton of work to be properly roadworthy and reliable. anyway whatever amps you play enjoy them and don't take shit too seriously.. peace out Munger.

[@jpbguitar6470]

Great video, always love circuit talk and old amps! CSGuitars has made some more in-depth videos for a few orange amps as well that are worth checking out

[@bUwUmer1260]

Dope

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Cheers!

[@breakfastbuddy5]

one thing thats never looked at is the power supply

[@FuzzlordEffects]

we can look at it on Patreon!

[@leegollin4417]

Bongzilla

[@FuzzlordEffects]

such a good band!

[@gabefunnychuff4592]

Im a big fan of how Boris has used both of these amps, more so the or120 as wata has kinda been known for it now. Feedbacker is a good example of it but akuma no uta n whatnot also blended the green from what I recall but I could be wrong

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Boris is so amazing!

[@RocknJazzer]

Very few Orange's of the era had Partridges or fanes. Most had Parmeko + Celestions. You must be thinking hiwatts, they were the partridge/fane amps. Only some of the earliest oranges used partridges. The rest of the parts they used were not very high quality either, just average. No mustard caps like marshall and hiwatt, just basic stuff nothing special

[@brentstewart59]

Where is anybody going to be able to crank these things up to full volume..? No venue will tolerate them even at half volume

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Going to the wrong shows dude

[@YanomamoDoomo]

Also, you can never capture the sound of either of these amps using one of the pedals that are allegedly based on the amps ... you just cannot

[@blaineparks7627]

Just became a fan. Thank me later -> P r o m o S M!!

[@heavyvibrationstudiopl3256]

Where is the sound?Are you serious?Do you always describe how amp sound by your voice?You know what.All amps have gain control and knobs.Show the bloody sound when you talk about it.

[@FuzzlordEffects]

Let me know which amp you’d like to hear about next 😂