DOOMED Watch Flippers’ FINAL CURTAIN - 90% of Rolex now trade below retail!

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

**DEFINITION: 'Watch Trade Price', this is the price paid for goods by a retailer(in this case a secondary market dealer), this is naturally less than the list/sale price achieved by said retailer...obviously

[@jcm5651]

And you still have to factor in the loss of any sales tax paid which further increases the loss.

[@corgiowner436]

Amazing that the everose/blue-green sky dweller only gets a small premium over rrp when the grey market dealers are asking rrp+40%

[@Sams911]

what I don't get is if 90% are trading below MSRP, then how is it they're always sold out?

[@Saints-Forever]

Rolex’s strategy of retail price increases has also play a big part in curbing the flippers as margin gaps at retail and grey market has narrowed. Rolex wants those grey market prices as their retail.

[@cecielhelder5923]

Indeed. It’s also pricing a lot of people out of the market at the AD. The two tone Rootbeer retails now for twice as much as the two tone ceramic GMTII was 10 years ago. I’m continuing to wait for this house of cards to collapse.

[@rootedrotor525]

No offense, but where are you getting these numbers? I see hardly any going under retail in the USA. I want a 40mm explorer 1. I've seen zero under retail and that's not even that popular of model. Subs go way over retail too.

[@solholl1472]

Remember that the reseller will add 30-40% before they sell

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Yes perhaps they do SELL for over but this is about trade price offers and specifically the UK market, US market is slightly different mainly because your economy is performing much better than ours

[@nickhull83]

I have a feeling its a much different market in the UK vs USA. You are correct in that anything new / great condition is over list. Sales tax adds to the cost. Excluding the Daytona, its not worth the money to flip it. You are not going to get many opportunities to buy a Rolex at list. I just got a Datejust at list, extremely happy and enjoying it for the foreseeable future. It was $11,500 with tax out the door. I could sell it for 12.5k to 13.5k, great i made $1-2K but I can make that in other ways while wearing the watch. 😁

[@HydrogenAlpha]

These are the prices a dealer will pay you. Very hard to sell a Rolex on the secondary market for the full market value if you're not a dealer.

[@nickhull83]

@@HydrogenAlpha Yes, of course you will pay more at a trusted physical location that offers a warrantee vs eBay/Choro 24 etc.

[@Lovemy911]

My 1st Rolex ' mid 1990 s bought a sub£1600 if i remember rightly 😮 the days when you could walk into any AD and actually buy something

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

yup i remember staring into the AD window as a kid at the £4k rolex subs, that’s where it all started 😭

[@alohaguchis]

Those days are coming back already. You can walk in and get a datejust or Op and maybe a few days wait for black sub here at my ad.

[@baniconeocleous5837]

I meant if you were lucky enough to buy your watch from ad,it was like buying at trade price as pre owned were more expensive, but now retail is near enough the same as trade.

[@HydrogenAlpha]

Another banger. Thanks Vinny.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

No problem mate, enjoyed putting this one together

[@HydrogenAlpha]

@@vinnyfranciswatches It showed! 🙂

[@streetmoney21]

Yeah flippers are working overtime in the US to keep prices high, but a lot of watches are just sitting as they simply overpaid for these watches and don’t want to take a loss. The best thing to do is low ball and move on if you can’t get a deal you’re happy with. No need to overpay when there is so much inventory on the market for sale. Even the auctions on failing where winners are not paying and so the watch gets listed again. Just saw it happen with a sprite GMT.

[@WestCoastAce27]

Which underscores the pt: the big greys that are adequately financed (didn’t piss away all the money they made during the 2020-22 peak) and individuals with good jobs can list their watches at silly prices at sit back and wait the lull out.

[@cecielhelder5923]

The real bargains are the other brands that rode Rolex coattails and upped their prices big time. I just bought a two year old rosegold Breitling AVI 765 for 60% less than new. Also got a month old Sinn 356 for $1650. They’re overstocked on merchandise and it’s not moving. The AVI 765 went from asking $17k to $11.5k. A watch sitting unsold in a box is not just parked capital, it’s a missed opportunity to get something that will sell at a profit. If this continues I’m going to be getting a few more grails before things go back up again.

[@twattgurll]

where are the dealers selling these watches at these prices? Can you please let us know? We cant seem to find these prices anywhere.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

never said they were SELLING at these prices they’re being BOUGHT at these prices, rewatch and listen carefully

[@baniconeocleous5837]

I think for the last 4 hrs you could class rolex ad prices as trade prices,now they are selling at retail prices.

[@sergiogarcia9822]

Great news for actual collectors; Vinny, by any chance can you do a video about Audemars Piguet and steel royal oaks? I’d love to hear the state of the market on those, I already have a current value 100k USD Rolex collection and I am looking to other brands now.

[@Coolguy24686]

Great video again as usual! Look forward to the next one.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@autolocksmithspecialistsin2802]

Stellar production quality on these videos

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Thanks man, appreciate it!

[@Stona999]

Great to see. I'm not a Rolex fan but this should mean softness in all the Swiss watches, which is fantastic.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Rolex sets the trends and other follow, friday to rise and first to fall

[@JLim3111]

Thank you for the great and honest content Vinny! May I ask about the approximate trade value for 126508 with the diamond dial? Thank you in advance.

[@vietmontague]

Love these type of videos hope to see more of them!

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Thanks for watching!

[@DC-si8xw]

I don't know how it works where you are but 9000 lb here has taxes on top of that so that $400 profit would actually be negative because the taxes would be more than $400

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

tax is payable by the seller in the uk and it’s usually incorporated into the ticket price of a retail item

[@DC-si8xw]

wow, exact opposite of the unites states. so when he sells it to for a 400 dollar markup then he pays taxes becuase now he isnthe seller. what's the tax rate because it still sounds like he will be negative

[@russcornfield4241]

Bang on Vinny as always 👌

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Cheers thanks for watching!

[@masterwatch]

the SkyDweller is very nice and if you're a Rolex fan this is probably a nice choice but for me the retail price is high and for me probably would make me look at other brands but if you like Rolex these are nice watches. Rolex's are nice watches but I think, just my opinion, I think prices will be subject to a further correction based on economic environment and demand and I think prices will fall below retail MSRP also indicated by the large amount of popular pieces held in stock by the Grey Market.

[@therahgalleryart]

Dealers in uk would offer 14/14.5 for the sky dweller blue

[@stevecotterill7981]

Hi Vinny, I also love the updated AirKing, I bought from my AD a year ago. Its a Marmite watch... and I bloody love Marmite... 😂 A defo keeper. ❤

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Yes brother! It’s perfection, refined in this latest iteration to be the best version of itself, i think the honeymoon period is going to last a while in this one…to think that a Seamaster 007 is 2k more😂😂

[@David-nx2vm]

Yes! All I wanted for my first Rolex was an AirKing, and got mine in 2022. It’s terrific - I like the throwback font, the instrument panel look, the subtle green/gold on the dial. Couldn’t be happier with it.

[@prismaingenieros8235]

It's a scandal what the Rolex company has done in conjunction with its authorized dealers, regarding its policies of hiding the merchandise, flippers, theft, taking advantage of customers. The boomerang effect for the sbove is the tarnished brand recognition.

[@Kogemate]

Actually, the Daytona LM is not out off catalog (as you can find it on the website). The Daytona with rubis bezel is off catalog.

[@carcarroom]

The green dial skydweller on the jubilee bracelet is far more popular than the blue dial.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Damn i forgot about that one😂 definitely a Flip

[@therahgalleryart]

The green obviously

[@johnnygyro4090]

Tax should be taken into account as that would change the dynamic in many countries, especially the UK

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

for sure there is sales tax on top on the US but i’m in no position to comment on that as a UK resident / UK qualified accountant

[@safecracker]

What are your thoughts in the Yachtmasters?

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Hey, check out our part one of this video where the yachtmasters are covered, released a week ago

[@JinxPalm2023]

Ugly as hell watches...the Frankenstein of the current Rolex lineup for Yacht II; the Yacht I sells below retail aswell so perhaps they would be the Eddy Munster of the current Rolex lineup 😂

[@oscarlopez-gc1pv]

I think I said this before but let me reiterate. First of all it is not a first come first served there is no such thing as a waiting list for the watches that you are saying flip. Second if a person can get a watch from the authorized dealer they will probably be happy to pay list price rather than buying it on a gray market and also by buying from the Rolex authorized dealer they will be creating a good profile and purchase history that they can eventually get the watches that you are saying flip but if they flip right away as soon as they get the watches don’t expect to get another one from the authorized dealer because they already sold one to them and they don’t want to be perceived as being in cahoots with anyone for extra money because Rolex would take their dealership away FLIP OR FLOP??? I don’t think so

[@alohaguchis]

My friend walked into our AD and was offered a black Sub Date after two weeks.

[@dannysimenauer5745]

Historically when Rolex announces a model is discontinued the grey market price goes up. Then more supply comes on the market and the market price drops. No need to rush out and buy a discontinued Rolex immediately. Let the market settle down to a lower price. I hope Vinny is right about prices falling to the point where Rolex enthusiasts can get a watch we want as before the Pandemic. Unfortunately, the AD's in the US are still keeping their showcases empty and playing the Pandemic Games. In odder, the demand in China & Hong Kong is reported by WatchPro to have a significant drop off in demand, yet Rolex is not rerouting production to the US and Europe where demand is higher. I have no plans to visit an Ad until I hear that Rolex showcases are filled with stock. Or Rolex AD's could stop charging over list for CPO, and I would be glad to buy a CPO watch at a rasonable [sane] price.

[@mccobr]

The Le Mans isn’t off catalogue. It’s £45,100 on the website.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

my mistake fair enough thanks for that! strange though i thought this was a special edition !

[@craigb9865]

Great video, hope this slide continues😀

[@daniel-j-harris]

So in summary; you can flip an OP celebration or Tiffany, GMT, or most popular steel sports watches in the 9k range. Everything else is either a pass or is a watch that only exists in folklore, I.e a Daytona, which only celebs and VIPs get

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Pretty much! You should write my outro’s for me hahaha!

[@daniel-j-harris]

@@vinnyfranciswatches I’ll do you good price 😂

[@lonewolf30531]

All the scammers are in trouble .

[@mortgagemartin3987]

Another good video, I am waiting to buy a Rolex as I believe I will get a date just and a two tone rootbeer below retail this year.

[@americantarmacker514]

Thanks for the update Vinny hook us up with a update on the gold president 40

[@andrewbrown5636]

Unworn blue dial 126300 DJ41 /Oyster ..RRP £7100.. dealers are offering £5300. Says it all. SkyDwellers are now cheaper than 4 yrs ago when I sold mine

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

true, even the famous Hulk now start at £13k trade price which is less than 3 years ago

[@antoniojd]

What dealer would offer me that much money for a Starbucks?? I’m selling mine and all the offers I have so far sit below retail 😅.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

is it brand new fresh out of the AD? that premise of this video was repeatedly made clear

[@DecemberNames]

Thank you for another amazing video. It is great to watch experts like you put the hard dedication on KZbin for our joy.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

So nice of you thanks !

[@gavinsverdloff4291]

Morning Vinny, lots of info here, thank you. I received a call from an AD last year for a watch⌚️ I wanted, but in the larger size at £40k on the way to the AD, I spoke with my Grey Market dealer who informed me I would loose £10k if I purchase, I declined the watch ⌚️purchase. Earlier this year I received a message from the well known store in Knightsbridge offering me a watch, I informed the London AD I had purchased a ⌚️in the perfect size for me. Gold is up £476.29 in the last 6 months 😊

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

nice one! in most cases now it’s just a huge waste of hard earned money to buy Gold Rolex at retail, yes the experience is nicer but it just isn’t worth the 10k more. This is what the grey market used to be known for…a BETTER deal!

[@comeonman7423]

Thanks Vinny would love to know the dealer prices of entry level Rolex models like OP36 black, Explorer 36mm and DJ?

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Hi mate, please check our part 1 of this video for some of those, released on our channel last week

[@comeonman7423]

@@vinnyfranciswatches thank you

[@wayneguy6043]

Vinny boo bats, tell me the watches that make up the 10% and the production data you have to support your figures

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Production data? This video doesn’t explore production data as it’s not relevant here

[@perid5815]

If Flippers will be in trouble, then Ad will be in deeper trouble. Nobody will ever be intereted to buy in Ad anymore if Rolex will be below mrkt value in grey. ADs will go bankrupt with high rent n salaries.

[@cecielhelder5923]

Rolex watches are still a good buy. Just buy what you like at the AD, wait a few years and the continual price increases take care of you. If you were daft enough to pay a whole lot over retail you’re going to take a bath if you sell today. Sad for the grey dealers but for anyone who overspend because they loved the watch, it’s still the same watch so enjoy it.

[@Voltanaut]

I just want the lefty GMT. That's it.

[@jonathansmith283]

that said , stopped at an AD in SOUTH CAROLINA , USA , last week - @ 9 pieces on exhibition - nothing for sale . I have no spend history there, but have spoken to the AD twice in rolex conversations - be safe VINNY - stop back on TIM'S show soon . ~ JDS/CT

[@BobbyDazzler888]

Yes but it takes time to trickle through the ‘system’. It will only get better with time. Watches arent getting flipped for profits and many people are holding on to watches because they cant flip them at a profit. Be patient, it takes time globally for the change to happen. Happy hunting.

[@karlsugden4161]

Hi Vinny, I hope you and your family had a lovely Easter Bank holiday, another positive, genuine, honest video I am looking forward to watchers and wonders to see the new Rolex releases and the discontinued ones look forward to your next price update pass or flip enjoy the rest of your week ahead best wishes

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Same to you! thanks for the kind comment

[@Pauljones-cd6dk]

Spot on.

[@Watchfreak1]

I love Flip and Pass!❤

[@patrik3450]

I’m considering taking a trip to UK. I just want a rollie

[@jcm5651]

Be careful with customs, if they catch they will want their tax! Look what happened to Arnold’s watch. Remember the VAT in the UK is 20%.

[@danlopez.3592]

Don’t taxes figure into these purchases?

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

in US yes, in UK tax is included within price

[@matports_live]

Great video. Best advice - anything that comes up here as a pass, you should be asking the AD for a discount. Anything that has come up as a flip...why bother, because the AD probably isn't going to give you one anyway. 😂

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Pretty much 😂

[@johnrudzinski3217]

I’m calling BS at least here in Australia. Every Rolex is selling at least a 30% premium. If I can get one below retail I’ll be walking around with a stiffy for a month

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

please listen to the video: TRADE PRICES!

[@vonbon954]

Great video.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Thanks for the visit!

[@coolgabe64]

Mark Wahlberg got himself a Le Mans. :))))))

[@WestCoastAce27]

More great stuff. And I hope you’re right - but still a little worried the pending BTC price explosion will push prices back up. 💯 Platinum Daytona will be my 1st purchase after I win the lottery - or BTC does a 5-10x. I’m surprised the profit isn’t higher.

[@Watchfreak1]

You cant flip Patek Philippe as well. The Nautilus market is death!

[@faizalhakim3772]

RIP flipper. 😢

[@ToniMontana-fv3jb]

Still the best on YT from germany.🙏

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

Danke! All the best

[@scottr3141]

Like Harley Davidson , they've had their day in the sun , and faltered to newer ideas and styles .

[@rogerparis]

Come here for the truth.

[@Hifimarantzuk]

Great video Vinny ! You poured salt on Flipper wounds !! Me likely!!!’n we know TWMID- but the vintage Rolexes seem to stay around the sale or even higher on some pieces. Cheers Vinny - lmao @ “Offense “ must be a muppet dealer - 🤓

[@CelebGMZ]

The dealers are selling to dealers only it’s all total bollox

[@saucelikemayo]

Find me a Rolex that trades below retail excluding the models no one wants ie air king and explorer. You can’t

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

TRADE VALUE < SALE PRICE, listen carefully

[@johnobrien8398]

How many Rolex traders are there on utube for f sake. You would think Rolex is the only watch in the world

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

have a look back through videos and you’ll learn my interests and repertoire go far beyond Rolex and explore the art of watchmaking as an enthusiast. Perhaps before commenting you should get some context beyond one video

[@leonk8113]

Stainless Daytona = eternal flip!

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

probably yeah!

[@WestCoastAce27]

Yes, even when the new factory comes online they won’t make enough. Dumbest thing I ever did was let the Rolex sales guy put an exhibition piece on my wrist. Never had any desire to get 1 before that.

[@muds1123]

90%???? I don’t think so. Haven’t seen any steel sports models below retail. Also no one flips back to dealers 😂

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

really, so who they flip to if not the trade? seriously ? have you even watched the video before commenting ( trade price is different to sale price)

[@Saints-Forever]

Have you ever wonder how the grey dealers get so many brand new Rolex watches for sale if not from flippers.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

I don’t, i know it goes on but i don’t think it’s as widespread as some suggest

[@walther9161]

Not true.

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

the research and figures do not lie, see for yourself…by the way TRADE price is NOT end user SALE price

[@BlindTom61]

Rolex, the watch for fat sweaty people.

[@howardtan8430]

That is a nonsense video. How you know the dealer is gonna offer such price. The watch market is crash and dead now. No one are buying and secondary dealer mostly are just on consignment! Also, the pieces such as lemans daytona and platona if you can get from AD. I believed the person has been pay more than the retail price to keep buying rubbish watch from Rolex. Still is a big lost!

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

…because it’s my job

[@MarkMcCann1888]

Load of bollocks. There’s virtually no models that I know of that are going for less than RRP

[@vinnyfranciswatches]

TRADE PRICES for goodness sake actually listen carefully to the video NO THEYRE NOT SELLING TO THE END USER AT THESE PRICES they’re selling to dealers at these prices which is called a trade price, unbelievable how many people don’t understand the difference, just makes you look a fool commenting like that