DOPES AT WINNEBAGO/GRAND DESIGN? KEVIN FRAZER ADDRESSES THE BROKEN FRAME ISSUE FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE!

This icon in the RV Industry shares his views and opinion on the "broken RV frame issues" about Winnebago and Grand Design. Kevin Frazer from ‪@CheyenneCampingCenterWalcott‬Cheyenne Camping Center doesn't hold back on how he feels‪@WinnebagoRVs‬and‪@GrandDesignsOfficial‬‪@GrandDesignRVTV‬ is handling the situation.
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[@marcsmelser9508]

I own a 2022 398M Grand Design Momentum 5th wheel. I have owned somewhere around 15 campers, motorhomes, etc... in my life. I have had to fix more things on this Grand Design than all the others combined. And some of these things I have fixed are not small tasks. I am currently 2 months deep on fixing frame failure on it. Never buying anything from Grand Design again,... EVER!!! As far as I'm concerned Grand Design stole 135K from me.

[@birdlady2725]

I am surprised you cannot get some class action suit against them! There are enough failures to probably qualify. Consumer Lawyer needed? Sad when corporations take us, then too big & too powerful to fight for restitutions. Pitiful! 😢

[@yoyomawh4091]

How much weight do you have on your pin box?

[@yoyomawh4091]

@@birdlady2725no , there are that many people abusing their RVs

[@stickbogart3657]

I think that they are using cheap frames in the RV industry. They want to pack more features and more functions into their RVs and they want light frames so they can put more crap in them. Trucks have towing capacity limitations. As far as the actual amount of weight a truck can legally pull or should I say safely pull And you also have to think about how much weight can a tolerate safely 👎👎👎👎👎 Whoever the RV manufacturer is, you would think they would care about their reputation and move to another RV frame manufacturer They have to stop building RVs until they find another RV manufacturer probably they don’t want to do that Meanwhile, Customer suffers The profit still comes in I think people oughta have a camping rally at the RV manufacturers facility pack that facility full of campers camp at the RV manufacturer if there’s a whole bunch of RV campers at the RV manufacturer, it puts a stop on them building coaches because they’ve got no place to put them Personally I think that’s a good idea 🔥🍺🔥🍺🔥🍺🔥🍺 🧰🧰🧰🧰 they should also hire people that know what they’re doing that are building these coaches, cheap labor, cheap quality

[@michaelshepard9409]

You put down 135k on a production 5th wheel, an rv…better off putting that $ on a provost, that’s not a production level RV!!!what’s the big deal with GD????see them all over????

[@IAMdave_thecat]

Great interview..the dealer guy was awesome. No BS! Straight talk is appreciated

[@slickwillie9526]

The worst part of all this fiasco - they blame the customer.

[@casskit9502]

Yes, yes and yes. Blame the poor guy trying to pay for and is not enjoying the POS. O agree with.

[@charleswesley9907]

@@casskit9502 It is your fault ! You evidently actually used your camper for its intended purpose . I call into question the grade and alloy and heat treatment of the structure . I do not believe that their steel is worth a crap. It should be a Chrome Molly steel instead of a knife blade material which is what I read that they use . Its brittle , hardened to get the strength from what I believe to be an unsuitable substitute . The frequent breakage in specific areas speaks to their engineering ability or their executive decisions. Evidently they do not design in what is called Safety factors .This is evident even on the travel trailers as cross braces literally push through their I beam webs in the axle areas . A simple additional thickener between the cross brace angle iron and the I beam web would suffice but they did not do that. they cheeped out .

[@user-xx4sy7hs5u]

Allen, this hurts the whole RV industry. It is all over the internet, social media. The RV lots, dealers there is hardly anybody on the lots. Yes the economy is one blame but I think people are watching to see how all this is going to be handled. Their trying their best to hide this, buy outs, taking videos down, signing NDA's. It's bad, It's bad. For All!

[@user-cf2wt8xc9m]

That ashamed that some family, or someone has to die before they say there is safety issue.

[@mikewalker4134]

I have been repairing R V trailers for over 45 years and seen a lot of frame failures , mostly with fifth wheels and some bumper pulls. The frame issue seems to be on fifth wheels 40 feet and longer. Overloading seems to be the main issue causing the frame issue especially in the front under bed compartment where owners are installing heavy banks of batteries, invertors, solar controllers, and all the extra "stuff", chairs, BBQ etc. All fifth wheel trailers have a max pin box load rating as well as max trailer weight. Exceed the ratings and this is what is most likely going to happen over the long term. Also, road conditions play a part in the big picture, IE potholes and other things. Interstate 40 in Arizona and New Mexico are great examples of pothole issues

[@robd6709]

I agree with I40, especially between Kingman and Flagstaff going East. It broke 2 of my wet bolts on separate trips. I also agree that overloading is taking place. However, few frames have a data plate indicating the maximum pin weight. When this isn't known, how is anyone supposed to abide by it?

[@enarandyr9122]

Lol…I thought BiDumb was spending those trillions of dollars rebuilding our infrastructure! The interstate roads in America are terrible.

[@johnlynch5221]

A number of years ago, a branch Manager once asked me how I got 16 months of100% satisfied on customer satisfaction survey. I told him I run my territory like a wore house. The customer always "comes" first. He never asked me anything ever again. These companies have lost sight of the customer.

[@martysos6462]

Quality in the industry has definitely hit an all-time low. I was deathly afraid of trading up from my 10 year old Primetime that gave me zero issues. However, my son (a seasoned RVer) bought a Brinkley Z3610 and has nothing but high praises for it after many weeks out . I followed suit and went for a Brinkley Z3100 and I am so impressed with the amazing quality and thoughtful design engineering ....all the way down to the 16 ply Cooper tires. I hope they set the quality bar high for an industry in dire need of leadership.

[@jenniferbartlett8464]

We actually bought a grand design new 2016....so thankful we still have no issues as of this year...although this was before winnebago took over..

[@DeekJohnson]

Wingman...thanks so much bringing light to this issue. Always keeping it real! You duh man! Thx

[@robertnasser9937]

20 years ago there was barely internet, now it’s almost required. My 5er suffered with what they called frame bias. It was repaired and the 4 upper slide cracks and so far no issues. I should note I had independent suspension and disk brakes installed.

[@thomasbumgardner6970]

Folks seem to forget that Jayco Pinnacles were showing stress cracks back in 2020 and 2021.

[@shae26919]

All states should have a lemon law for RVs and make it law that the selling dealer will be responsible for repairs.

[@HoofHearted801]

Your buddy Kevin Frazer is very wise with experiemces that are costly to obtain. Thx.

[@jeff67mustang]

Companys that buy out other companies always seem to shoot themselves in the foot, majority of the time. Cutting cost, layoffs etc.

[@kathykeene2092]

Bingo! I was disappointed when I heard Grand Design sold out to Winnebago all those years ago.

[@jimsilverdale205]

Why don't you do a show on why the manufactures won't build there plumbing systems where they won't leak.

[@philipstreechon4523]

All LCI AND WINNEBAGO had to do was run a finite element analysis on the design and have the steel tested also look at the safety factor.

[@cooter53140]

We ran into several dealers that won’t take in grand design on trade prior to frame flex. It was due to undersized suspension. We had two suspension failures on our Solitude

[@jamesmclamb8578]

Late last year, my wife and I went to Elkhart to factory tour GD, Alliance, and Jayco. We were searching for our next side patio toy hauler. We left with the Grand Design Momentum 399 at the top of our list. That was early November. By January of this year, we were ready to buy. But the two months from November to December, we had seen enough to put GD out of our choices. Our Jayco Seismic has been great so far. I know Lippert makes all the frames but I just couldn't risk what I was seeing with all the Momentums breaking. When people walk away with their money, these manufacturers will change.

[@lazy5692]

both companies feel they cannot absorb the cost of repairs. It might be found that thousands cannot be repaired and need to have the frame replaced. Bankrupcy if it comes to that.

[@paulhavis516]

Boeing is learning a big lesson about letting “bean counters” run a company instead of engineer’s. Same is true of the RV industry.

[@playhooky]

'Bean counters' means accountants, so do you actually mean that the accountants at Boeing run the company? I have to respectfully point out that the CEO's & COO's & boards of directors are who run corporations, and they only care about profits - because they only care about the company's stock performing well.

[@stratolestele7611]

​@playhooky to be fair, leadership looks to the bean counters for current and trending future performance and listen to them for guidance on where, when, and how to reduce expenses to either create or increase profits. So it always comes down to the bean counters (along with HR and legal) who will recommend that their CEOs and the overall leadership of a given company pull any one or a myriad of levers to achieve the desired result. We all know the 'levers' - things like costs of labor, goods, finished and raw materials, production time per unit, performance per employee, level of skill req'd to accomplish task (goes back to labor costs, actually), limitations of liability, required levels of quality - which with many of the production RVs, appears to be "what is the lowest level of quality we can get away with to be able to warranty for no longer than one year?" and thereby increase profit margins.

[@micheleobrien64]

They will play the blame game and pass the hot potatoe till somebody dies. 😢

[@jeffharwood624]

Low ball steel made from outside the United States causes the flex issue. As an added problem the Aluminum used in Grand Design was purchased from the same country as the steel. Many people jumped from Grand Design in 2017 to other manufactures when the problem was early.

[@Erin-Thor]

But it’s trailers too, and OTHER MANUFACTURERS! The only common denominator is Lippert.

[@tinbarnranch]

The RV industry does this and than cries about how its going broke. Kevin is clearly a very wise man.

[@frankjacoby9460]

You just can’t argue with raw truth👍🏼

[@MikeKisil]

Glad as I am this straight up information come to light and just maybe it will come around winnebago and grand design blame it on road conditions (bumpy road) or pick up trucks not up for the job ! sad how once good company's take this route.

[@gary9080]

Schwintek slides and Lippert have brought winny to their knees. Camping world has made rving a nightmare.

[@dennysivells9977]

Alan, you know I was a die hard Grand Design proponent. I’ve had two of them and loved them both with minimal problems. Both of those trailers have been to your old campground. One was a bumper pull and the other a fifth wheel. I got lucky and happened to have sold my last trailer (the fifth wheel) two weeks before the internet started talking about the current frame flex failures. As far as I know my trailer did not have frame flex. At this time, I am very disappointed in how Grand Design is handling these problems and I’m sure their trailers have been adversely impacted in value. At this time there is absolutely no way I’d buy another Grand Design because I don’t trust them. Make no mistake, i understand over 90% of all fifth wheel frames are made by Lippert (LCI) and I’m hearing other manufacturers are having the same problems. The bottom line is I’m staying away from Grand Design for the moment. I hope they somehow recover from their bad decisions to not tackle this issue before it became atomic but the cat is out of the bag now. This is just my opinion but I follow this topic closely.

[@robd6709]

It's not just a GD issue. As an NRVIA inspector, I've also seen the issue in Keystone, Jayco, and Heartland trailers. They all used the LCI 1621HD frame which is inherently weak at the pinbox mount. I've yet to see a complete frame failure that wasn't caused by overloading the pin.

[@ArthriticAngler]

All about stock options. Taking profits and hoping issues don’t happen. Make it stronger.

[@perryfefchuk637]

They didn't forget , they don't care ,it was and always will be about the money.

[@JeffinTD]

I’ve become used to the typical not sealed well here, bad plumbing fitting there, mishung door, even a cracked weld… but the issues I’ve been seeing on line- I just don’t see how they could be repaired. I really feel for those folks. With signs of structural issues even an amateur rv enthusiasts can spot immediately, unsellable.

[@thatdave86]

Thirty ,forty years ago there wasn't the social media as you just said ,now the word can be put out there with ease and from there the momentum grows (excuse the pun)

[@douglascounts4634]

Easy fix, stop using butt joints to join steel beams as they are the WEAKEST and cheapest way to do it. You want to move the natural flexing in the metal AWAY FROM THE JOINT and into the beam. This is how they do commercial trailers, bridges, tall buildings, etc. They all use gusset plates to spread out the joint and make it rigid. It is just a few more welds and just a minimal amount of metal added. Again, move the flexing away from the joint and into the beams.

[@patbullard9276]

He said it nicely. Winnebago has emptied its bladder on its own brand. Most of us would just say they have pissed on their own brand.

[@micheleobrien64]

Other manufacturers need to pressure them as well. Since alot of buyers are pulling back from all rv purchases. They all are going to lose sales.

[@stevebrown3955]

We have a 2021 GD Imagine 2600RB. Purchased brand new in September 2020. I am rather shocked to see all the recent negative press/reports on the GD brand, as we have had zero problems with our trailer in over 3 full seasons of use (we live in Minnesota - camping goes from May - October). Granted, our trailer is not a 5th wheel, and we never travel out of state with it (too many great places to camp in Minnesota). Keeping our fingers crossed.

[@rebekahwarriorspirit8110]

I think the issue is when you start driving it around often , we have a GD Momentum and we have had some issues but nothing HUGE. We also are mostly parked right now.

[@Mark_Lawler]

Grand Design should study what happened with Lagoon 450 catamarans and their bulkhead issue...

[@Sushi2735]

This was GREAT! Winnebago has broken my heart! Their reputation is ruined, period! It will take a generation or more to recover from THIER BAGS DECISIONS. THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS SHOULD TOSS THEM ALL OUT!! I’m so ashamed of Winnebago!!!!

[@jofus3604]

There are a lot more rules and regulations involved in building a "home" compared to an RV... BUT: Manufactures of RV are now hiding behind that because they don't them towed 30K to 40K plus miles a year! "Build them cheap, stack them deep...."Ship it and bill it" The new warranty..."If it breaks in half, you own both pieces"

[@playhooky]

I love Cheyenne Camping's location - on I-80 at the Walcott, Iowa, exit - caddy-corner from the I-80 Truck Stop!

[@allamar9083]

Will check it out ,,,thx.

[@jamescopeland9147]

I purchased a Open Range 5th wheel in 2013 and Open Range had the same issue with cracked frames. Some of the members shared the issues and you should have seen the bubble gum welding. My opinion was poor workmanship by LCI. I was fortunate that my 5th wheel never developed an issue. some of our forum members qtook their campers to welders and fixed it on their own dime.

[@joygarrett8397]

I feel real bad for the GD owners who have good units/no problems . . Because when they’re ready to sell/trade in no one “in the know” is gonna want them or they’ll sell Way below value. It’s sad. These mnftrs are brining their demise on themselves & screwing the customers!

[@chipsrafferty8362]

Wow,and you busted Liz for bringing this to light,now your jumping on her bandwagon

[@kathykeene2092]

Perhaps an apology to Liz is in order.

[@NYVET48TFW]

@@kathykeene2092 screw Liz!

[@stevesanders2972]

I think Winnebago is taking a page out of Thor's playbook and the metaphor in the video seems pretty appropriate.

[@9002-bv9xz]

So glad I didn’t buy a Grand Design 5th! Came close 3 times but ended up ordering a Rockwood Signature. Have had a couple minor issues fixed easily myself. Otherwise it’s been solid.

[@holiday1]

I'd like to know what Monaco chassis were built because it was cheaper lmao, and which chassis were known to break ? There was problems with the trailing arms on the smaller lighter r4r chassis cracking.

[@billkraemer4710]

I have had 4 tow trailers. The most recent one is a 2015 model. Too many Chinese Lippert parts. Will just run this one until I am done. Never buying another travel trailer of any type. Not paying price asked for .25 cent labor. The quality is crap from the wheels up.

[@usa91787]

We have a 2020 Grand Design bumper pull. Its been pretty good, however it doesn't move very far. We bought Grand Design after seeing the president of Grand Design paying for a new slideout on a used unit after there was an issue with a bad assembly job that resulted in the slideout not going back in correctly and doing damage. I was impressed when he told the people that they didn't buy a camper they bought into the company of Grand Design when they decided to purchase. I guess that was all for show. Frankly, we're going to buy a bigger unit for our permanent campsite and use our current smaller one to travel around since it's only a 22 foot unit and fits everywhere. I guess we'll see how it holds up. Addressing the frame issue, there is a company in LaGrande, Oregon called Outdoor RV and they build their own frames to match up with their units. Their bumper pulls run much heavier than most. For example, they have a 25' Titanium Series bumper pull that runs, I believe 8500 pounds dry. But they are true 4 season campers and the workmanship looks to be at a much higher level than the others. Heavy but built well.

[@angie-xy5sf]

OUTDOORS rv. i looked at them. sticks stapled too.

[@glencrouch442]

Always enjoy these segments with Kevin, his candor is refreshing. And yes, I wouldn't buy or own a Winnebago or Grand Design for anything at this point, they've proved they will not stand behind their product. They appear to be doing the current corporate America default, blame someone else and cut off your nose to spite your face, it's idiocy.

[@deddie4645]

I'm looking to buy in an older Monaco one of my 3 Manufacturer choices What year Range. should I be looking out for for those bad Frames...... Thanks in advance.

[@mdbeatt]

Hi Alan, I dont Have a dog in this hunt, as I do not have a 6th wheel. I just have a small TT without a slide. I follow the KISS methed. If you keep it simple then less things can fail. In saying that Winnebago/ Grand Design have not handled this well at all. This could be the end of Grand Design Brand. The Brand May never comback from the Damage they have caused by not handling the situation better. I really feel bad for the Owners of these RVs. They are kind of stuck, The company wont fix the problem, Dealers wont take them as trade ins, and anyone that knows about this will not buy one used. So the end user is stuck. Bad situation all around.

[@RWofWA]

Emptied its bladder on itself that could not have been better said.

[@user-bh7dm8dr3m]

It's like everything else. It's a big deal in the news now, but then something else will come along and this won't be as big of a deal, and we will be on to something else. GD has extended their warrant. It's not all their 5th wheels, just the larger ones that probably get overloaded anyway. My 2021 GD is a smaller 5th wheel, and we love it and have had zero issues, I don't see it affecting them in the long term.

[@GrandDesignRVMajorIssues]

Hey Wingman, I know our members (Grand Design RV Major Issues - FB) have been filing complaints with NHTSA for some time now (at least since March 21st) so our 3200 members have been proactively doing this. NHTSA is looking at this and even got involved with one of our members and called Grand Design. I agree that Winnebago has "emptied their bladder on their own brand".

[@robertsee6400]

I used to respect the Winnebago brand name. I owned a 2017 Winnebago Cambria. My lady and I thought it was built better than average class C. We sold it last June and left the RV lifestyle. I feel the bean counters are now running Winnebago. They are killing their once stellar reputation. I would not consider another Winnebago product after this treatment of their customers, if I was considering another RV. I enjoy your podcasts. I feel it keeps me informed about things such as this.

[@maximnole]

I have pictures of one that broke going down the hwy...mine!

[@joygarrett8397]

Please share!

[@Luv2camp316]

Oh No!

[@Luv2camp316]

Hopefully no one got hurt

[@maximnole]

We were able to get off the road. Had to hire a mobile welder to patch it enough to be able a tow to repair shop.

[@niveknospmoht8743]

With the amount of RVs having this issue and the blame game going on, you'd think the Insurance Companies that are writing policies would not do so considering the amount of litigation going on. ''You're buying a Winnebago with a Lippert Frame? not going to insure you..sorry" That there alone would shut down this crap internally with Winnebago. Can't sell their crap if buyers can't get insurance on them. Good interview. BTW Winnebago is not the only manufacturer having issues with Lippert frames cracking and leaf spring shackles breaking or folding over

[@davidmahoney7960]

Being a business owner I totally agree they will not recover from this and it’s more like they emptied their stomach on them self much worse than the bladder.

[@charleswesley9907]

Welding more mild steel to a poor grade of steel just moves the stress points to a new location of poor grade steel.

[@olallamoshopken7434]

for sure

[@lanedelker9161]

Whether Grand Design is responsible or not, there's no doubt it's a mess. And thousands of owners are left holding the bag, just wondering if their RV is the next one to break. This reminds me of the GM/Cadillac debacle with the 4100 engine. If you had one, you couldn't get rid of it. And if you bought one, warranty companies flat out refused to put a policy on it. I think Kevin is playing it smart, just stay out of it!

[@brentmcmahon8188]

And when you weld a patch do not weld a square piece of steel round the ends off and the weld never any corners always round them off a lot not just the tips .

[@jimcornelius5809]

I am shopping for a new rv and would never look at Grand Design or winnebago brands.

[@angie-xy5sf]

so am i but all junk. i decided to buy old class a. ALL REAL HEAVY WOOD. ceramic tile floor. heavy duty ceramic sinks etc. 2000-2008 models kept undercover. thats what i buying

[@dutchgirl2]

We have a 2006 toyhauler and was looking forward to shop for a newer model... maybe not ....

[@dryvonne1999]

I would keep what you have. I would not buy a newer model.

[@bobbyb.6644]

Not a large enough margin for Error to handle overloading or over stress ? I assume there is ( or will be) a Class Action Suit- that usually gets some action moving ? 🤔

[@bluenetmarketing]

There is a yt video of a guy who had extra pieces of metal welded onto the frame of his RV to prevent it from cracking.

[@user-ldi56]

I don’t see why anyone would take one of these campers in on a trade when their announced extended warranty only covers the original owner.

[@timmuotka2060]

That changed today. Warranty is now transferable.

[@tomkrause62]

I see a whole bucket load of GD 5TH wheels in the campgrounds every weekend. I feel sorry for these people, but then again the vast majority of them won't ever travel enough miles to see these problems show themselves. So now we have dealers refusing to trade in these potential problem units, which means they are worth next to nothing even sooner, and on a wider spectrum, than they normally would be.

[@williamleonardo8478]

This is the same thing that happened with weekend warrior they started punching holes in the frame rails to Safeway and all that did was weaken them I am a certified welder and I was approached by many people to weld their frames back together and I refuse to then I found out through a people at the RV industry that they went out of business and were sued because of frames busting in half motorcycles and toys inside and getting in massive wrecks that's how they got sued now it's called you know the name

[@georgeburns7251]

I’m not an RVer, and would never buy one, but this was a really good presentation.

[@user-xe8rh9qi7y]

At some point class action !

[@loydalexander154]

3 years ago i looked at a grand design and said no way and got a jayco been happy every since 😊😅

[@coreymerritt7742]

That’s great news Allan I think all dealerships should refuse all grand design trailers I follow a lot of different you tube channels and they are all saying the same thing thanks

[@jeff67mustang]

Other companies are the same guy's, I have a '15 ram 3500 diesel with a radio with busted navigation because of a chip that gets hot, useless now after only two years old. No recalls

[@bryanspayde5681]

It’s very disappointing. I have owned 3 Winnebago s. My first was a 1975 then a 1983 today a 2001 class a 80k miles zero repair s . Just normal maintenance. My wife and I was thinking about upgrading 1 more time for our retirement rig . Think we will just keep our older adventure.

[@je862]

I'll guess, tell me if I'm correct: 1975 Winnebago 318 chrysler engine with automatic tranny, shifter on the dash. 1983 Winnebago class c, with 350 chevy engine, automatic tranny, shifter on the column. Am I close? I loved the early to mid 1970's Winnebago motorhomes as a kid!

[@bryanspayde5681]

@@je862 yes

[@joygarrett8397]

These manufacturers should play by your motto . . Be Safe, have fun, Play Nice . . & Don’t leave your Good manners at home!!!! ;-). In my opinion they are definitely missing on 3 of the four points . . .

[@b0borden437]

Winnebago is going against what anybody in customer service business would never do. You reap what you sow.

[@Milesco]

I don't think you said that quite right, but I know what you mean.

[@markdalton3834]

It seems that a whole lot of manufacturers are not obeying the "Law of the Land" and going below the threshold of quality into how cheap it can be made. It's engineering and materials. Toothpicks are made of wood, but you can't build a house substituting toothpicks for 2x4s.

[@JohnLockett562]

What was the Monaco pusher that had a frame issue which Kevin mentioned?

[@FrankBullitt390]

Probably an early version on its own frame. All those Oregon diesel pushers (country coach, beaver, holiday rambler, monaco) had their own frames as it cost too much to have Freightliners/Spartan shipped all the way out there

[@roslyndrake6702]

I was shopping for a new rv and with everything I’ve been hearing and discovering in research I am now not buying anything not even used. I will build out my suv instead.

[@je862]

Another option would be an enclosed utility trailer, those are built pretty good for quality, and you can lay out your own floor plan.

[@jeff67mustang]

What happened to companies that use to really try earning our business by making products that last and charge a fair price. Well, it all stopped when our politicians sent them to Mexico, by raising taxes raising minimum wages and now products come from Chxna. The generations of people now in charge of company's don't have the hardships and moral back ground experiences to know better.

[@livesoutdoors1708]

Still, what about the destroyed dreams of GOOD people who TRUSTED Grand Design and Winnebago? This is obviously an issue of corporate stupidity and greed running rough shod over the customer. It's just as he said, they SHOULD have taken the bull by the horns IMMEDIATELY and FIXED the problems, but instead they blamed the customer. I will never buy either, and yes they have pissed in their own boots!

[@jeffwatson2234]

Hey Wingman what would Kevin have to say if this was a Forest River 5th wheel breaking frames ??

[@casskit9502]

But you Dolt, it’s NOT a Forest River!!!!!

[@johnfleming7729]

IMHO Winnebago has made a HUGE mistake ! ! I learned many years that burying a mistake usually took more energy, $, and reputation than admitting a mistake followed by a recovery plan. The blame game is only a temporary deflection.

[@texillini1]

Not being an RV’er I really can’t comment except from what I hear on these channels. I have to wonder if this issue is really this bad (and if so I’m glad I’m not consider purchasing until after I retire in 5 years), or is it just every KZbinr jumping on the bandwagon for ratings because it’s a hot topic? Regardless, Winnebago has screwed up from the PR plate. They read from the Bud Light playbook when they should’ve taken a page from the How To Tylenol playbook. What Dopes! Now they are gonna have to hire a crisis management firm and spend millions more to fix this AND their reputation.

[@dalemarshall9736]

They didn't just empty their bladder, they emptied their lower intestines too!

[@je862]

Your saying should be painted on the side of a semi trailer and parked right in front of grand design headquarters.

[@nkw3157]

Time for a class action lawsuit.

[@GoneWalkabout]

I considered an RV once for retirement, but after renting a few, I'd never touch any of them. I think people expect way too much from them considering you're going to drive these things thousands of miles over awful American roads and try to jam them into campgrounds. NO THANKS. I don't want to bring my house with me, nor do I want to buy a monster truck to haul it. Give me simplicity, shelter and a place to cook. I go camping to be outside and get away from it all, not trying to park a monster RV, level it, hook it up, dump it, bleech. Going to get a simple, high quality teardrop, and enjoy the outdoors. 100k for a RV made of cardboard, staples and spit? There's so much to go wrong and so little options to repair poor materials and workmanship, I'll save my sanity and watch a nice sunset while the RV'ers screw around with their malfunctioning auto-levelers and finding that pesky water leak that soaked the pressboard walls into mush. Yes, a good teardrop is expensive, but they are built small scale by small outfits, with plenty of options.

[@lloydswartz7354]

I purchased an off road travel trailer of reasonable size, so I could take it more places and use it for extended off grid community projects and build a cabin. But down the road I plan to use it to come back to on long trips, where I go out and car camp or😊

[@kenmartin1919]

If lippert can prove they built frames according to factory engineers specs from Winnebago and/or Grand Design it’s a no brainer. It’s no different if they built the frames in house.

[@wk7060]

Kind of wonder if any of the problems could be possibly with cheap Chinese steel issue?

[@robertburns5145]

Lippert says it’s all American steel.

[@Itsa_Mea]

​@@robertburns5145American Supplied steel. Doesn't mean the supplier isn't importing it for resale to Lippert.

[@jimmyducote6318]

What year did this start,

[@californiahikingadventures2249]

I’ve been researching RVs for a year and a half for full time retirement plans. GD was the top on my list when I first began looking. Now, there is no way in hell I would buy a GD.

[@rebekahwarriorspirit8110]

Get a RV that's NOT newer then 2018.

[@stratolestele7611]

Or research the best years and manufacturers of the given design you are seeking and be prepared to lower your requirements. For example, in my case, I want to ultimately get a class-A diesel pusher. I've narrowed it down to an older no-slide Prevost conversion, likely a Liberty, that's rivited and has a good ole Detroit Diesel 60 series (no DEF!). No it won't be the créme de la créme of coaches that have the latest and greatest doo-dads, but it definitely will be retrofitted with nice upholstery, bedding, TVs, sound systems, cameras. I'll definitely NOT tear out perfectly beautiful woodwork and cabinets because it looks 'dated'. Possibly paint where appropriate? Sure, but I would NEVER remove or cover beautiful lacquered cherry and the like. If a leather sofa is in great shape, it stays. You can even stain, or dye leather if you want a darker or richer color. There are so many ways to save money and reduce depreciation when you're starting with a high-quality item.

[@californiahikingadventures2249]

@@stratolestele7611 I’ve settled on Alliance 👍

[@Mike-ew9zn]

They are all crap now days and I have NEVER seen an honest dealer anywhere!!!

[@wk7060]

The RV industry is by far the BEST at pointing fingers at the other guy.

[@holiday1]

He's not wrong about the company's not taken care, but the entire rv industry is building complete crap, I have a 94 and its repairable and built 100 times better than anything built today.

[@Mikael.formermilitary]

What kind of used travel trailers are reliable. 25 foot and under. Thanks.

[@GiantsNinerFan56]

Lance. You can never go wrong with a Lance travel trailer

[@aljano1976]

Airstream. They also hold more of their value than any other.

[@Hunterlewis675]

When someone has one of these turds, take it back to the selling dealer, make a voluntary reposition. Put a statement on file listing problems with the three credit bureaus, and be done with it, THAT WILL CHANGE THINGS

[@johnstangel8918]

I saw that Winnabago has extended the warranty to 5 years regardless of the owner.

[@jaybruns7771]

Own a Grand Design 2021 22 MLE and love it have had a couple issues GD stepped up and sent parts free of charge my dealer General RV in Birch Run Michigan they are terrible, Grand Design great, my dealer not.