Douglas Murray on Roger Scruton, Intersectionality and the Trans Debate

💥Join us on our Journey to 1 Million Subscribers💥 Here's a fascinating conversation we recorded with Douglas Murray (@douglaskmurray) on location in Oxford.
In this episode we discuss:
01:45 Roger Scruton, Smear Tactics and Competitive Victimhood
22:06 Taboo Subjects, Gender and the Trans Debate
39:08 Campus Censorship, Intersectionality and Islam
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About TRIGGERnometry:
Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@failinghuman) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.

[@triggerpod]

If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and support the channel via Patreon/Paypal - links in description.

[@triggerpod]

@@chaosflower4892 Yep, welcome to the free, totally unbiased internet.

[@lesserspottedmugwump.363]

Triggernometry It’s normally the sign that there’s been an algorithm change, you probably just got black listed.

[@ryanballantyne1811]

Don't take this the wrong way, chaps, but the quality of your interviews (guests, questions, AV) is *way* better than the name of your channel suggests.

[@dadoogie]

For such a small number of subs you've got some incredible interviews with a lot of people. It's shocking that so few watch.

[@LondonReps]

@@dadoogie I've often thought the same thing

[@orangefield100]

Christopher Hitchens maintained that " being offended " is not an argument.

[@Mviews-hb4ib]

ian alexander when he died the crazies knew defences were down . Devastating chain reaction

[@patrick6110]

And yet being offended and attacking people at the personal level did wonder for SJW.

[@patrickcrowther9195]

Quite! "I'm so offended!" "And your point is?"

[@ezyrhino]

The UK is lucky to have Douglas Murray.

[@jiminverness]

The World is lucky to have Douglas Murray.

[@noifurze6397]

a interlectual giant, always a pleasure to hear him talk

[@johnhammond6423]

He makes me proud to be British. :)

[@briananderson2675]

Who listens that matters?

[@guidad542]

The UK isn't as lucky on many other departments...

[@lostinsweden5039]

Thank God Douglas Murray is still speaking. While voices like his are still heard, there's still a glimmer of hope.

[@ajs41]

Theodore Dalrymple as well. One of the best writers around at the moment, along with Douglas.

[@mattwilson3249]

Think it helps he can articulate himself very well to the point you can't dislike him and be angry at him!

[@guidad542]

I've lost a bit of hope through him, because even people who seemingly agree with him seem to miss his more subtle points.

[@mpiugdtyhgffijfcxp3613]

LostinSweden God and Douglas don't belong in the same sentence.

[@Wilantonjakov]

"I hold this very old-fashioned view which is that you shouldn't be able to just lie about people and get away with it" The slight satire in this statement is beautiful. Being held accountable for lies these days is "old fashioned". I love you Douglas!

[@AP-yx1mm]

Akhnaten Isn’t that free speach? Where does free speach begin and where it ends according to you?

[@Retrostar619]

@@AP-yx1mm Free speech comes with responsibilities, one of which is to not openly lie about public figures in your articles. Hence libel law.

[@brother1ray]

Back up your bullshit...…………..with EVIDENCE! Otherwise, let us call you out on your bullshit, and call you what you are...……...a LIAR!!! Fair no ????

[@AP-yx1mm]

American Fuel TV What if someone has no cognition of what is true, raises a claim which is not true, but she/he didn’t know it is not true. Is that libel still?

[@brother1ray]

Dead simple...…..IGNORANCE is no defence in Law, whereas the Truth is an absolute defence! NO ONE can sue you for saying that which is demonstrably true, and slander/libel must be, by definition false! What part of that do you not grasp ??

[@travelbugse2829]

I love Douglas Murray's incisive mind and rigorous honesty. He's a real gem in a world that has increasingly gone left-wing fascist.

[@MysteryBaker]

Douglas Murray is so insightful. He always seems to articulate exactly what I feel but I'm unable to put into words.

[@sueharwood6681]

He is indeed, an extremely articulate man. I really admire his honesty and courage and I love his dry humour.

[@karlgrabowiec9532]

Try writing. It’s a formalized way of thinking.

[@pjtren1588]

I admire this man for his eloquence and knowledge. He handles words like a scalpel. Always interesting.

[@Berserk0653]

surgeon with a scalpel* anyone can hold a scalpel :P

[@oldlogin3383]

Murray - the only person close to filling Hitchens' shoes. I get the same thrill listening to him and reading his work.

[@ChristofferEricsater]

Ryan Keller he is miles away. He is an intellectual that can talk, Hitchens was an Intelligent talker that could intellectualize!

[@seanmoran6510]

Chris Erics What was Hitchens Bias it appeared unclear to me He came across as a Angry old Student Trot

[@estebannemo1957]

Yes, he's in the same league as Hitchens. And, like Hitchens, he has a compelling public speaking voice.

[@sallyharrison8265]

Loved Christopher. Prayed for him. Such a gift from God that he didn't believe in. Sad really. Now I pray for Douglas. A true gift!

[@dannffc]

Douglas Murray is a Hero

[@dannffc]

@To Err is Huma He'd say it's full of "Shithouses".....

[@BoostOn]

George Eaton has managed to cling onto his job, but he's been demoted from Deputy Editor to Assistant Editor. Sir Roger Scruton hasn't been reinstated into his position, and James Brokenshire, the Minister who sacked Sir Scruton, has been absolutely silent about this matter. Frankly, the UK government is a basket case.

[@zilefn9212]

Yes, Brokenshire's silence has been deafening, hasn't it. We can only hope he loses his seat in 2022. I suspect (I may be wrong) that Eaton's change in title won't have affected his salary or benefits. But the brand of the journal he works for has been damaged. I won't buy an issue of the NS or click onto its website now, and people I know say the same.

[@UncleBoratagain]

Grey Chip No to the licence fee.

[@electricdreams8237]

George Eaton is a scumbag. That piece of stupid excrement has just ruined his life and he is so dumb he wasn't even realizing it at the time. Yeah, it is really conductive to one's journalistic and intellectual career to be caught out lying ineptly in order to destroy a beloved public figure of impeccable reputation just to score some fashionable brownie points. I wouldn't hire that turd to do my spell checking. And as for the morons who took this excrement's word over Scruton's... well I guess they are hiding under a rock somewhere, a fitting environment for spinless slimes and creepy crawlies as they obviously are.

[@sendittoherlihy]

The question is who set Eaton upon him. Most likely someome who didn't want his influence within the quango he was involved in

[@edwardharley9]

thank you for this information....I went to the New Statesman web site and enter the information but guess what... nothing came up....I hope Mr. Scruton is suing for slander... I understand in the U.K. that can be profitable from time to time.

[@Bichpwner]

"What else are we not talking about". "We have no basis for our morality, our whole metaphysical system is in flux". Straight to the heart of it, can tell a man is worth taking seriously when he is concerned with excavating the cause of an illness rather than attempting to formulate "solutions" to the symptoms.

[@guidad542]

Glas someone caught that. The reason I admire Douglas as a public speaker is because he is able to look past the symptoms and diagnose the exact illness. To him, issues such as immigration and identity crisis point to a deeper existential problem and following his train of thought is always refreshing. Sir Roger is also similar, but he really lets his inner analytical philosopher to do all the talking. His arguments are structured similarly to a mathematical proof, something that many people miss when attacking his view points.

[@douglasjones3105]

Douglas Murray is always worth listening to, and this was another excellent example. Only problem, as you alluded to in the intro, was lack of time. Really good points on intersectionality and transgenderism in particular and the suspicion that it might not go as smoothly as utopians might imagine. Who knew...

[@unitedstatesofpostamerica7559]

KZbin is the new University.

[@symbungee]

United States of Post America there may be issues with the "choose your own curriculum" model.

[@unitedstatesofpostamerica7559]

@@symbungee Probably, maybe someone could make a curriculum.

[@Tang0Fox1]

That might change with the rules.

[@alsoknownas875]

And they're actively working to destroy it

[@katelewis536]

God, I loved this, Douglas just articulated brilliantly a problem I had a vague sense of....honest, deep, grown up

[@nelliewright5832]

If everyone today could talk about issues in the same calm and logical manner as Mr Murray here we would be in a much better place.

[@gratuitousfootnote1183]

Scruton and Murray are lights of reason, very grateful for their contributions to the public debate. Without voices likes theirs, it would be very dark times indeed.

[@biscuitsalive]

I wish Douglas Murray was prime minister. Can you imagine. He would sort shit out. And represent Britain as a strong, erudite, clear headed man with integrity and a fierce honesty.

[@guidad542]

You had your fair share of Murrays in the past decades. Problem is, post-war Europe didn't have any place for them, so they were simply shunned and silenced.

[@FiveLiver]

I'm not sure Murray has any solutions - 'The Strange Death of Europe' doesn't hold out much hope. www.forbritain.uk

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Once the smear machine cranks up into high gear, they would find a way to discredit him, and thereby invalidate (in the eyes of the sheeple) everything he has ever said. No, politics is for sado-masochists: he is far too important a voice to be squandered in that way.

[@FiveLiver]

@@sirrathersplendid4825 - Nothing is more important than politics. The left work on gaining an edge all day, every day - that is why they are winning. The more people who enter the fray against the progressive establishment the better.

[@alexisvaubien5557]

Douglas Murray, brilliant as always!!!

[@MasterSimpkins]

I usually get bored of the trans discussion, but the way Douglas talked about it sent shivers down my spine.

[@hypnotista]

The elucidation of the conflicts embedded within intersectionaltiy (47'50" mark) are priceless. The entire interview is brilliant. Thank you!

[@blove142]

"untruths will ultimately demoralize us" . Yes, and the truth will set us free.

[@Philiptanzer]

I love Douglas, thanks for the interview!

[@memoryhero]

The people most in need of this interview would never watch it. That's the thing.

[@edwardharley9]

too true.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

I wonder, is there not a way to get them to watch?

[@stefiionescu8045]

If by "people most in need" you mean people who are willing to put up with more nuanced realities of the world even if they are "demoralising", no, we're watching, it's just boring.

[@omp199]

@@stefiionescu8045 What more nuanced realities are you referring to?

[@philm9593]

Douglas Murray, always a delight to listen to. Well done you guy's, good interview! 👍

[@kevinoneill978]

Wonderful interview Douglas Murray is wise beyond his years and a fantastic word Smith. Seen him debate many times he knows his stuff.

[@6teezkid]

Murray is not only of high intellect, but of very high character and integrity.

[@ebeuille]

Douglas Murray made me feel happy about being an unsuccessful nobody. After all, we are the class who can happily continue recognising basic truths without being attacked or causing scandal... cheers guys! 😊

[@galshaine2018]

Weird... But I am happy to read this comment and see myself saying it. I look with some amusment the people who 'made it' and yet became exposed to the heat of the ideological game. They are terrified. Some I know are terrified becoming 'like me'... And by that I mean: identify as a right winger, post MA studies cancelled subsequently, a month of bitterness, followed by 20 years of calm satisfying life away from that BS...

[@adamlane9815]

Amazing conversation, guys, your content is top notch. Good job going for topics that aren’t always asked/talked about.

[@triggerpod]

Adam Lane thanks!

[@georgeharvey3062]

From the other side of the pond I always love listening to what Mr. Murray has to say. Good interview. BTW I rarely watch MSM anymore. The jury is out on their biases and I absolutely abhor being lied to.

[@bitdropout]

Fearless views from Douglas on the traans (his pronunciation) issue. He nearly said "looking like pantomime dames".

[@TheAndyinSeattle]

Amazing work as always guys. And Douglas Murray really should be a national treasure for Great Britain

[@translunar1]

Excellent guys! A great catch to get Douglas on your show and thoroughly enjoyed and when his new book comes out try and get him on again. Thank you!

[@Mothman156]

Douglas Murray has always been a breath of fresh air to me.

[@benjaminperez969]

Edmund Burke × Marcus Aurelius ÷ Oscar Wilde = Douglas Murray

[@chrisc7265]

to finish off this stew, I grab my Christopher Hitchens salt shaker, and when I shake it into the broth, little Peter Hitchens fall out

[@ariellawaltman6693]

Benjamin Perez funny

[@MetePurphy]

I've been a big fan of Murray for quite a few years. His well thought through ideas are mindscaping when he is pitted against the lesser calibre of intellects. If only he was invited onto Question time over the past few years, I feel the decision to leave would be of a firmer stance than it is in the wake of the Brexit Party clean up in the EU elections.

[@lokiwun]

Been waiting for this one. Thanks guys.

[@lokiwun]

Could have gone on longer. Really interesting. Brings home to me I really no longer know what left or right is; and maybe that's progress. Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase ‘each other’ doesn’t make any sense.

[@macclift9956]

Douglas Murray helps me to exhale!

[@NickLitten]

Great comment. Lol 👍

[@bipinshah3400]

Mac Clift I know what you mean 👻

[@76not84]

Great stuff, guys. Thank you for this absolute treat; hope you have him back soon. Helen Dale would also be brilliant.

[@deborahrobertson8606]

Superb conversation. Thank you .

[@pulmo1]

Thank you for standing up for integrity.

[@moodymomo6637]

Great video looking forward to the encore

[@mack7170]

Greetings from Canada. You guys do great interviewing.

[@triggerpod]

thank you!

[@sueharwood6681]

Douglas Murray is so HONEST. This is something I find so appealing and attractive because so many people are so DIShonest. I sometimes offend and annoy people because I refuse to lie and disseminate and this is sad. I'm not an aggressive person - but I refuse to lie in order to be "polite" More than ever, in today's world, we must stop pretending and just "say it like it is".

[@gemmaverity996]

19:19 "Don't leave a meeting in tears, turn right round to that person and give that bastard what he deserves"....Utter legend! Shout out to Camille Paglia...another legend!

[@EarlSergejTheRakish]

Loved Douglas' brief glance at the fireside after his remark about children sweeping chimneys.

[@Michael.Eddington]

I will always click on Douglas Murray

[@altprop826]

The problem with universities..... We are continually reminded that we now live in a 'knowledge based society' and that our very survival may depend on our willingness and ability to adapt to it. But the well from which that knowledge is drawn is our university system, and that well has been poisoned. The poison has trickled out in to every niche of social and political life, to the extend that we no longer recognise either the poison or its source. Tax payers have been betrayed. Remove public funding from universities.

[@dallassukerkin6878]

Once again, gentlemen, wonderful stuff :applause:. I am one of those who used to think that Douglas was seeing problems where none existed and have come to see that much, if not all, that he speaks out on are indeed issues that need properly examining and addressing.

[@aeronomer8389]

One of the sanest voices in the UK right now

[@socratesrocks1513]

You need to do another one with Douglas. The Madness of Crowds is an outstanding book (and elegantly written) and so much has happened since this interview. Worth the follow up if you can get him. I love listening to this man.

[@marionreynolds7080]

Wonderful guest fellas! I’m very familiar with Douglas Murray’s views. I’d like to quote the estimable Chris Hedges - the current problem is the emphasis on feeling rather than thought. Marion

[@bbainter7880]

Movin on up guys! Keep them coming.

[@duncefunce1513]

I am always uncomfortable being on the same side of an argument as Piers Morgan. But here we are

[@paulmurphy216]

You two guys are doing it just right. Interesting, challenging without being rude, friendly without being sycophantic and funny without being silly. Truly great stuff.

[@matthiaswalker38]

Are those people in government who are so emotionally fragile, with such power over us, who's judgements and decisions effect the lives off millions, fit for office?

[@victorcates9330]

Fragility is wonderful, because it doesn't have to be subjected to any kind of test on sincerity or rationality. You just claim a wound that only you can see, maybe squeeze out a tear and have other people fight your fights. There can even be a conscious claim to fragility. If you plead you (or the people you're white knighting for) have internalized other people's prejudices, you can say that any comment could tip you over. It basically amounts to a group of people holding a gun to their own heads while insisting that the finger on the trigger isn't theirs. You can self flagellate and then point to your back and say "look at the how scourged I am, how deep the scores go. I must be a victim." I knew people who suffered having their loved ones murdered in hate crimes. And my most fervent hope was that somehow they could rebuild. It wasn't a political idea but a hope for their welfare. And a lot of people did contest that recovering in the event of real trauma reclaimed power and avoided letting someone's actions or words impinge on self definition. Now having a public performance of a psychotic break (perhaps on basis of mean words) could win you the moral high ground.

[@cloudybeforerain7134]

No, they are not.

[@marklambert2777]

That was a great take on “intersectionality” and the effect on young gay men/girls who the exponents seem to think need to change sex. If that could be explained in that way on BBC programs where the hosts frown at those challenging, with the “isn’t that transphobic?”

[@libertasdemocratiam887]

The BBC wouldn't have someone like Murray on, he'd run rings around them and their neoliberal ideals. I personally find it astounding that trans activists are demanding respect and opportunities ect ect, yet they refuse to give that respect to people who are simply doing their job and due diligence. Medically changing a human body to suit that of the opposite sex has never really been tried before, its a fairly recent event, medical scientists and doctors need and must look into trans medical intervention purely for ethical reasons, doctors take and oath, first do no harm, they have to know that they are not supplying drugs to teenagers that could lead to serious health problems later in life. It's just unbelievable that the trans debate is being constantly shut down, people are demonised for daring to challenge the ideology, and the persons concerns genuine concerns are left unheard. Trans people can't and won't be accepted into wider society until they start to give the respect they demand we must give them.

[@oliviamaynard9372]

@@libertasdemocratiam887 Trans people exist. We deserve the same rights, opportunity and respect everyone else does.

[@meoneandonly_]

@@libertasdemocratiam887 Murray is on BBC more than enough...its just that the BBC anchors never learn from him

[@meoneandonly_]

@@oliviamaynard9372 I dont think any decent person would dispute what you just said...the problem is how the scientific as well as the public discussion about this extremely complex topic of sexuality and gender is handled...too many people want to shut down the discussion when someone points out how incomplete (or faulty) the current gender and sex theories are and usually, those people will be branded as inhumane, hateful and bigoted and worse...this is a problem and has nothing to do with the legitimacy of trans peoples issues

[@oliviamaynard9372]

@@meoneandonly_ Well if the media didn't only air the lowest common denominator trolls from the left and right to fake debate the issues of importance wouldn't be so hard.

[@seanmoran6510]

Those that don’t declare there bias should be pressed into doing so ! Then proper debate can commence Douglas is always worth listening too Great interview

[@frostypeterson1002]

I am looking forward to reading his book "It will be out in September". I expect the title to say that too.

[@antkcuck]

you have to get douglas back on

[@lyndamyles8354]

Great interview lads Douglas Murray is a breath of fresh air

[@michel-jeantailleur]

Can you believe that the New Statesman once employed Roger Scruton as its wine critic? It was the best written and most thought-provoking column in every issue.

[@alphacenturai4658]

Christopher Hitchens and this guy make me love British humor. Through wit or sarcasm, they find the humor in absurdity.

[@StalewindFarto]

The cinematic ending was incredible.

[@conrad152]

Great interview guys !

[@triggerpod]

Thanks!

[@Antonette59]

You guys are getting some awesome guests!

[@ManInTheBigHat]

Love Douglas.

[@Karlopapa]

Douglas Murray is a pleasure to listen to.

[@delwhin]

Smashed it out of the park wish you could have talked to him for another hour!

[@DavidKirwanirl]

enjoyable chat again folks, thanks for doing this!

[@davidwebster4906]

Told the missus, Kate beckinsale is off the free pass list, replaced with Douglas Murray

[@HP-fn4bo]

I love you.

[@thepontiacbandit7874]

He has that effect on me too! I know I’m barking up the wrong tree, of course...but the heart wants what the heart wants. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@jackcaven9614]

The Cathy Newman .. Jordan Peterson 'so called ' interview is a perfect example of an Activist trying to 'take someone out'

[@HP-fn4bo]

I wouldn’t call her an activist but yes you’re right. She thought her position as a media personality was worth more than JPs intellectual career.

[@jackcaven9614]

@@HP-fn4bo When asked post 'interview 'what her opinion was on the subject , one of the most telling things she said was " you win some you lose some " ... that is not something you would expect to hear from a journalist , it is however something you would expect to hear from someone with their own agenda , someone with a 'cause' . Just one battle in a ongoing war for social justice .... she is every inch an Activist !

[@edwardharley9]

Yes, while at the same time not even understanding a single idea, proposal or principle he espouses. Only having in her mind a reflection of what she has decided he is saying. A complete consumate arse.

[@marklambert2777]

If the “Angry right-winger on Question Time” was the moment regarding Hamas, that is still a joy to behold, and I’d imagine anger would still be there if someone in an audience praised Hamas. Also, looking at older debates on You Tube, the humour has always been there. I don’t see that as a new change at all.

[@toprightchannel3080]

"I'm 39" surprised me as I assumed Douglas was older due to being around for so long.

[@BigWelshMike]

It's his wise heart, I reckon. :D

[@LonelyCinderella123]

Well he looks older I would have guessed 45.

[@omp199]

I only found out a few days ago that he was younger than me. It was a bit of a shock!

[@malcolmball2829]

Bloody Hell..…..I must be Gay, because I am in love with Douglas Murray......……….and please read his brilliant Book, The Strange Death of Europe...…..!!!!

[@monaarora3947]

I am a stright woman who love this gay man. He is brilliant.he is charismatic personality.

[@markncl100]

Addictive viewing. Well done guys.

[@LondonReps]

Great interview, thanks lads

[@wolfwind1]

Wonderful interview. Murray is great and the hosts are excellent.

[@promosolo]

I used to see Murray on the net a lot and he seems to have disappeared for a while so I'm excited to see him back and hear him again - thank you.

[@globalnomad1221]

Douglas Murray's opinions are always worth considering seriously

[@paulwary]

Fantastic interview. I'll watch this one twice.

[@juliettesmoon]

Well done guys getting Douglas on your show. I’ve been watching him for years ever since his debate when he teamed up with the beautiful Aayan Hirsi Ali. He is so wonderful to listen to. God I wish we had his voice in Australia

[@karenfornwalt9235]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 "Orwell that ends well" 😂😂😂 Wonderful interview w/DouglasKMurray. I could listen to Mr.Murray for hours.Thanks for the time and effort to bring these at times uncomfortable ideas into the public sphere.

[@arktana]

love you Douglas!

[@normbabbitt4325]

Great interview! Thank you!

[@bunkerbill]

Well done guys. Love Douglas too.

[@John-rx7oe]

An excellent interview. You need to do a part 2 follow up.

[@kathyleicester7306]

Superb. You are today's great gift: I'd not heard of your channel, and I remember Konstantin coming on Tucker Carlson. What a perfect statement "We're all under arrest." Not any more we're not. Speak. Speak. And speak some more.

[@GrumpaGladstone1809]

Props again guys, a great guest and a fascinating talk.

[@Chrisuperfly1]

Solid discussion gents, thank you for that.

[@danielwebb8402]

That Gareth Bale joke is brilliant!

[@GDMelb]

Bloody amazing guys. Thanks!

[@MatthewHaydenRE]

That's "Sir Roger" to you.

[@daveevans2696]

Great interview, great listening.

[@Pomsbunny]

Thank you for this it was insightful as usual.

[@Bereadyalways123]

This guy is the very best intelligent and wise ..great man OMG we need people like this now ..

[@boobearx2987]

Always loved Douglas. He’s simply brilliant. 👏🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧

[@richardbartholomew542]

Excellent, thoroughly enjoyed that chaps 👍🏾

[@mattc5084]

Keep it up guys, love your videos!

[@triggerpod]

Thanks!

[@danielzipperer9395]

I love the name "triggernometry"! Three handsome lads speaking at a high level! Murray and Scruton are treasures!