Douglas Murray on the English Defence League (2011)

[@catherinehouston9546]

So middle claaaarse! So we all sit down and listen to Douglas. ..articulate, sober, educated...and his prognosticating is credible because.., he is ., posh. .. but those working class protesters are relegated into the position of being dependent for credibility...upon thus man's endorsement or lack of it.., The reality of their experiences of living in these communities is entirely disregarded...and, whilst I am grateful and gladdened by Douglas Murray's sharp diagnosis of certain things, I am also angered that it has to be a voice like his that causes anyone to sit up and take notice!

[@druthvlodovic]

Catherine Houston modern definition of middle class is six figure salary

[@misterguy2329]

"The reality of their experiences of living in these communities is entirely disregarded." The word "experiences" is often used by left-wing elements (SJWs or whatever) to make anecdotal evidence, or perhaps outright lies, sound more valid than actual facts and proper statistical data. The fact that a person has lived near some awful Muslims is rightfully not treated as evidence that Muslims are awful across the board. That leads us to... "whilst I am grateful and gladdened by Douglas Murray's sharp diagnosis of certain things, I am also angered that it has to be a voice like his that causes anyone to sit up and take notice!" But...that's how it should be. An educated person giving a proper diagnosis of the situation and explaining reasoning and context is really key here. Without that, you could have an accurate statement from an uneducated man who doesn't know how to construct a proper argument (but it right, regardless), or just some halfwit bigot talking nonsense, and how would we tell the two apart? The instant someone starts backing their arguments up with sound reasoning and proper evidence, that person starts to sound more educated because that is inherently what educated people sound like and why we pay more attention to them. Except in America, where apparently we listen to rich buffoons who act like government health insurance plans that cover several hundred million people aren't expected to be complicated.

[@alcraig]

I like the message but hate the messenger? Not very enlightened.

[@catherinehouston9546]

Stellar C, I like the 'messenger' Douglas Murray, very much! I'm alluding, I suppose to Tommy Robinson, who's outcry was ignored and vilified as racist for many years because he looks and speaks a certain way and people assumed that he was unqualified in his opinions. He is now being recognised as a hero by many who simply took the word of others rather than listening to his own words. Douglas Murray is superb by the way and I for one highly respect the voice of this man too.

[@alcraig]

I'm not English so don't hold bias when I say his articulation, sentence construction and reasoned argument are a credit to whatever school produced him. You should be very proud. Tommy Robinson is merely very brave. Someone who has the courage of their convictions is very rare.

[@MrCliveado]

at around 6:30 he really hits the nail on the head. something that is rarely talked about but is so important. Those who are most affected are the ones without access to a public voice. Therefore the only option they have is to protest, which is received as racist bigotry. This is literally the most important concept to understand in this argument

[@qwertyqart]

that's the paradox of the tolerance.

[@dbdengland8671]

Another superbly executed speech. I have huge admiration for Douglas Murray, he's brilliant at what he does and his views on this topic are good, strong views of common sense and truth. Working class people like myself are angry because we are ignored, we are ofcourse passionate, and that equates to the fact that we will fight to be heard. What else can we do? The EDL provided that voice for the people. Tommy Robinson continues to do amazing work and is a truly inspirational English gentleman and public figure.

[@PaulHattle]

Douglas Murray knows that the working class communities are on the front line of this situation and that it is only a matter of time before his community is directly affected. I know a lot of people from villages in Wiltshire and they are blissfully unaware that their country idylls will be over taken at some point.

[@eamonkenna6147]

Douglas would make a first rate Prime Minister. He should run as an MP and bring these important issues into the political sphere.

[@stellarjayatkins4749]

Tommy Robinson is a bloody hero and a patriot, and those who ignored him all these years should be ashamed of themselves.

[@MrRQBQ]

The EDL have the same problem as UKIP. Their aims and objectives are not racist or extreme but a lot of people who are racist attach themselves to these parties.

[@forlorndream1400]

When you disregard, silence and ignore the people who have legitimate grievances you leave them only one outlet. Our politicians should know this, violence is the only thing left to them.

[@DanA-hl1xk]

Could not agree more. It's easy to slag off and label the working class as racist. They are not, they are pissed off, scared and sick of being ignored. Tommy robinson has done so well to aim for a voice in the main stream media. We all ignore what's going on at our peril.

[@johnnymarshall5828]

Could someone explain why a nationalist party is racist? Serious question. Islamic extremism is not challenged, despite the many murders grooming gangs and terrorism which happen daily. We as indigenous Europeans should have the right to an opinion and the right to dislike anything which, like Islam, has changed our countries in a negative way. The elites have abandoned us. Not all of us will concede our rights or agree with the diversity lie which has patently failed.

[@joesimonetti136]

europe, you fucked up.

[@ZaklogtheGreat]

An EDL's Europe would be far, far better than an Islamic Europe, and I'm disappointed that Douglas Murray didn't have the balls to say this.

[@affrobeat6170]

The EDL was just Tommy, it's about finished now completely irrelevant it's just the start of Tommy's story, he's now going from strength to strength.

[@Cromper]

I thought the EDL was founded in Luton, not the north of England? Unless Luton is the north of England according to Londoners?

[@jackdaniels64]

What a brilliant man - please go into politics, we need some balanced truths

[@fishyc150]

I've always thought Eddie grants lines in joana were similar to the frustration English people feel. sound of drum obviously being violent uprising and civil unrest... If you're ignored long enough you look for solutions yourself. "I wanna know if you're blind Jo'anna If you wanna hear the sound of drum Can't you see that the tide is turning Oh don't make me wait till the morning come"

[@stewartw.9151]

We expect people to resist creeping Sharia Law - and they will use what means are available including violence when no protests work! You ain't seen nothing yet!

[@javaskin]

"The Main Stream" isn't losing, when the police is protecting free speech.

[@BaltimoreDispatches]

Slightly cowardly answer, Douglas...

[@E101ification]

The 'English Defence League' started out as a legit group responding to Islamists and radical Muslims who were/are forcing their extreme beliefs onto the communities around them, intimidating non-Muslims into obeying Islamic laws, etc etc. Tommy Robinson, the EDL's founder, is fairly decent guy who simply had enough of what he saw happening in his community - unfortunately, he's also not particularly bright, and he named his group the 'English Defence League' not thinking that that might attract a certain type of person, i.e meathead, xenophobic racist types. Over the years after the EDL was founded the EDL became more and more inundated with these racist types until they represented the majority of the EDL, at which point Tommy Robinson himself left his own organization on the grounds that it had become something he never intended it to be, i.e 'racist'. So the EDL as it is today is not a particularly good group, in fact they're pretty much just as bad as the radicals and the Islamists they oppose. But it didn't start that way. The mainstream and left-wing media will tell you Tommy Robinson is a white-supremacist and the EDL was founded as a Nazi group. But it wasn't.

[@wibblywobbly1234]

What's wrong with being a nativist? I'll side with my own people over hostile, invading blacks and Muslims. That's what any normal, healthy and sane person would do.

[@johnwhite6346]

If they had called themselves British defence league we'd be equating them to UKIP.the English flag has been tarnished by the 1980s NF days and skins

[@danzel1157]

This guy talks like he's underwater. Jeez, it's painful.

[@elvansavkl7972]

He is warning people.Good.However he does not tell that there is a reason his goverment protects these people.

[@garsm2290]

Poor Douglas has been completely outflanked by people like Tommy Robinson.

[@julast6658]

4:59 Mouse

[@frankgunner8967]

So what a we supposed to do nothing and be a cowards instead, The British bobby is no more Islam has seen to that !

[@degrelleholt6314]

This guy seems to want too much nicety in his dealings. Fight fire with fire. Fight rhetoric with rhetoric. Fight the lack of facts with facts. That's what he doesn't seem to understand. Chamberlain tried British gentility, and that did not work very well.

[@phatpat63]

I think all Murray accomplishes here is to illustrate the stupidity and absurdity of hate speech laws. Something that he doesn't seem to understand any better than his government.

[@mikeryan6637]

Murray is a fool. He has no idea of what is to come. No fucking idea.

[@davesigningout1447]

He does, his book suggests a descent into violence and maybe civil war if nothing is done. But Douglas has a platform and if he went too 'right wing' he would quickly be outcast himself as nothing but a racist bigot xenophobe islamophobe blah blah blah. So he is smart and tries to be balanced, considerate, and purely factual.

[@5starjonny467]

White folks stick together

[@fredkeebox829]

wtf is with the British tendency towards 'soft r's, ie 'w's? The BBC allows presenters on who have the defect in full flower. It sounds infantile!

[@trashdog1582]

The UK has around 50 distinct accents and the soft-r you are hearing, or rather not hearing, is because large parts of the south of England have non-rhotic pronunciation. This means that if the 'r' follows a vowel it will disappear, unless another vowel follows it: eg. 'fear'... the 'r' will disappear save if you said 'fear of' when the 'r' will be carried to the next vowel because of the connected speech patterns of English, i.e. fear of = fea--rov, or stand up = stan--dup. American English is generally rhotic, that is all 'r' sounds are pronounced... like Scotland and most of the north and eastern parts of England. The southern States in the US and places like Boston also exhibit non-rhotic pronunciation patterns. The BBC is populated--presenters and higher positions, not cleaners or camera crew--by a ton of public school educated people from the southern counties. This is why they are so detached from the remaining populous... they have lived in a bubble that is hardened by the 'London media scene'. Douglas Murray is a public school, Oxbridge educated, media type who is less detatched/more observant but shares the pronunciation, because he has a very upper class accent.

[@offwiththefairies77]

Murray has a slight lisp.

[@Correctrix]

Trash Dog, he's not talking about that perfectly correct RP pronunciation. He's talking about a Jonathan Woss pronunciation. It does indeed sound silly, but the modern ideology is against standards of pronunciation on TV.

[@trashdog1582]

And this type of pronunciation arises from the non-rhotic nature of a large part of England. Ross isn't the only one, Matt LeBlanc has the same feature, which comes from the way they pronounce their 'r'. The form is called a labiodental approximant and to anyone who doesn't have the rhotacism style it does sound soft and somewhat like a 'w'. This form has been considered a speech impediment but has been spreading and is now fairly common in under 30s. The RP pronunciation is also non-rhotic but never underwent many of the mergers in sounds that you hear today, the sound is far more enunciated. And I wasn't talking about this style of speaking.

[@trashdog1582]

@Hugh Jones No but brother teaches the subject. I have taught English and a few other subjects. I don't now.

[@williambunter3311]

If Douglas Murray had a brain he'd be dangerous. The EDL is great!

[@DieFlabbergast]

You didn't listen to the video, did you? And yet you commented, displaying your own lack of a functioning brain.

[@johnmoore9862]

He is educated, he doesn’t like any kind of people from overseas though, he see that as watering down “Englishness”.