Dr. Everett Piper on Wokeness in the Wesleyan Tradition

[@Truttle]

Would that more administrators had this kind of backbone.

[@asimon8313]

Our son attended Oklahoma Wesleyan because of Dr Piper’s leadership. Unfortunately he only attended for 2 yrs before Dr Piper retired. We know he was leaving, but were told it would be 2020 (not 2019). Nevertheless, because of the faculty Dr Piper had put in place our son benefited greatly. Grateful for his clarity and courage. Thanks for having him on Jon.

[@jackjones3657]

What a great interview. Dr. Piper really illuminates some of the issues in various modern denominations and why so many are wayward or even apostate institutions now. What is being taught to people in universities, seminaries and churches today is what will become our culture tomorrow. May GOD bless and protect those like Dr. Piper who fear Him over man.

[@Nathanield2002]

I would like to defend Indiana Wesleyan University. I cannot speak to all professors as I am sure that there are some who are more liberal, but I work there and know many who are not and who seek to uphold the authority of scripture and are committed to holiness. Our new president is also committed to addressing these issues more clearly and ensuring mission fit. I am one helping to stand firm on Biblical authority in these areas and our program.

[@a1abama]

Dr. Piper is one of the finest communicators EVER. Great episode.

[@rebeccavega6851]

Wesleyan long time subscriber. I love Dr. Piper and I thank you for having him on your show .

[@caryyurk1388]

Dr. Piper is a man after God’s own heart and every serious orthodox evangelical holding this high view of biblical authority that orthodox Baptists, Methodists, Anglicans and Presbyterians should be totally in sync with. We are having this battle in the English-speaking churches here in Hong Kong but not yet to the same degree brethren are encountering in the West.

[@adamnoble1689]

Boy he dropped some random deep wisdom right there at the end.

[@RTHenry83]

Excellent conversation! Really enjoy Pipers views on these things and strong convictions. Happy to see that there are other men in other denominations who still care about the truth of the Gospel and the goodness of Christ

[@darrellpowell4331]

Great podcast Jon.

[@michaelburatovich3199]

I have been on the faculty of a Christian university for 25 years and I have come to the conclusion that college presidents need to have the ability to fire unorthodox faculty. If a faculty member does not adhere to the published standards for faculty of that institution, then the president should be able to fire them. Too many faculty are hired under false pretenses and if they are found out, they should be chucked out. That’s what I have concluded.

[@conceptualclarity]

I know that ironically Al Mohler and Adam Greenway fired conservative professors at their seminaries. So those seminaries had policies were different from the norm, do you know?

[@jetrpg22]

Great convo

[@Pastor_Grant]

Amen. Once you begin a conversation you have already embraced the issue because you failed to do the Biblical thing.

[@JeremyShort-ur4cw]

I was taken aback by the story about a college lecturer using the Lord's name as an expletive. I wouldn't expect that in any Christian tradition, conservative or otherwise. On most measures I wouldn't qualify as conservative but I would never dream of using the Lord's name in that way.

[@bluedog562]

Brilliant man and discussion. As a Nazarene it is sad to see the demise of this once biblical based denomination. It starts with the colleges, especially the religion departments.

[@charlesgriffiths750]

I have a friend who graduated from Southern Wesleyan University a few years ago. He was hired as a full time pastor at a Wesleyan church in a very small town in southeastern Georgia. Within his first year, he was instructed to stop preaching against homosexuality as sin. He refused and within the following month, the fistrict fired him.😢

[@caryyurk1388]

Have the Reformed Episcopal and ACNA (Anglican Church of North America) registered their universities and seminaries in these discussions as well?

[@edeancozzens3833]

One lesson from the Garden is that it is unwise to engage in conversations with talking serpents.

[@jesskady1585]

One of the old preachers that formed my faith was Leonard Ravenhill. He was speaking against very early trends in Christianity going this was back in the 50's-70's. Read "Why Revival Tarries" written in the 50's and see so many parallels to today.

[@beagalulu2]

wow. when did the Nazarenes get hijacked? I recall as an (unbelieving at the time) teenager in 1980 attending a terrifying hellfire and brimstone Nazarene tent meeting, and my cousins, who were members, eventually became total holiness - no shorts, no cards, no dancing, no movies, no tv.

[@conceptualclarity]

It is sad that he is not able unreservedly to recommend Oklahoma Wesleyan under the leadership of his successor. For the woke to win they don't have to have their own man in the top position; all they have to have is somebody insufficiently determined to draw the line against them.

[@edeancozzens3833]

I love the Wesleys. Took thr Reformation from justification into sanctification. Outer court into inner court.

[@jimilica87m]

40:58 Genuine question: if one decides to “stay and fight” (for their church or denomination), how does one do so without being accused-either by opposition, or one’s own conscience for that matter-of disrupting the “unity” by bringing division and strife through said staying and fighting?

[@conceptualclarity]

Unity in disobedience is worthless. To fight for truth where it is imperiled is a mission of mercy. It is an effort to rescue people who will be in danger of perishing in the present or in the future. If you read the Epistles, the apostles did not value abstaining from confrontation for the sake of unity over standing for truth.

[@charlesgriffiths750]

Whilw I wouldn't endorse "The Passion of the Christ" as an evangelism tool, I have to admit that the scouring scene opened my eyes to begin to understand some of what Christ endured for us. And later, I came to understand I was responsible for Him enduring that😢

[@timbushong4387]

Excellent.

[@Keycity60]

I think one of the issues with academia is that the idea of constantly questioning your beliefs, values, World views, etc. Seems to be baked into that pie. The idea of stating foundational truths on which you will stand can be seen as a failing and subsequently efforts are made to recruit staff who will chip at that foundation.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

Questioning is good. Pretending the answer doesn't matter is evil. Be hot or cold. Being allowed to teach should be conditional to a strictly Orthodox answers, and tenure shouldn't shield from being fired.

[@conceptualclarity]

But have you noticed that the constant questioning only goes one way? The culture of constant questioning means that one is expected to question whether one is left-wing enough whether one should tack further left. It never means one should question whether moving rightward might be the correct option. Being open-minded about that is considered to be a vice of the worst kind!

[@Keycity60]

@@conceptualclarity All true. One thing I’d like to ask the professors before hiring them…Is questioning your beliefs the same as questioning your faith? Another way to ask it might be…Are your beliefs disposable based on conditions and is your faith disposable based on conditions?

[@JesusRodriguez-zy3wj]

@@conceptualclarity Superb comment, well done! Why don't we ask for whom was woman created? Why did they suddenly stop wearing a head covering after 2k years? Or better yet, what is a woman?

[@conceptualclarity]

@@JesusRodriguez-zy3wj these days even most of the conservatives would get mad at you and me over the head covering matter

[@adamnoble1689]

Jon, you need a video pic style that is readily identifiable as yours. I scrolled by this video 5 times before realizing it was a new Jon Harris CTM video. There just was no set cue or mark to alert me.

[@justintillett]

Wasn’t it the great Princeton Apologist, B B Warfield who made the statement to the effect that “the road from orthodoxy to Liberalism is a well traveled path but it almost always runs through Arminianism”?

[@daltonb1993]

Ironic given the fact that the Presbyterians, Congregationalists, and Lutherans had bigger issues with liberalism compared to the Wesleyan denominations.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

He was wrong, while I don't agree with modern armonianism, presbyterians have gone liberal fast as well.

[@conceptualclarity]

I revere Warfield but that was a ridiculous assertion. Calvinism has not done well historically in terms of resilience against liberalism. You see that right here in our 21st century with how quickly Young Reformed and Restless turned into Woke Corrupt and Compromised, and with how quickly the Southern Baptist Convention turned away from the Conservative Resurgence once Calvinists led by Al Mohler gained control of its national institutions.

[@justintillett]

@@conceptualclarity It’s a bit of a stretch to label the experience of multi campus, wannabe mega church upstart pastors who seem to agree with one or more points of tulip as Calvinists. When asked what advice he may have for the “young, restless and reformed” Sinclair Ferguson suggested they “get some rest”.

[@chrismachin2166]

All Churches that have elders and leaders believing in Arminian theology are doomed to failure. You can have a congregation that have a mixture monergistic and synergistic salvation,due to ignorance of biblical revelation,but if the pastor and leaders are synergistic, the Church will fail.

[@conceptualclarity]

I wish that Dr. Piper would run against Walter Kim for the leadership of the National Association of Evangelicals and bring it back from its current apostasy.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

Learned an enormous amount. It seems since 2016-2019 the few Bible solid denominationas went liberal. The Great Apostosy is here.

[@edeancozzens3833]

As a spoof I would like to see a booth depicting the serpent at that tree peddling his enticing lies. See if anyone would stop for a conversation and sign up for his emails.

[@crosisofborg5524]

I found a lot I like about the church of the Nazarene but female pastors and the upcoming possible split over the lgbt issue has kept me away. I can not go to a church that accepts that sin just because it’s popular to be woke.

[@anitasmith203]

Rick Warren was a big fan of Drucker and styled his church by many drucker principles.

[@conceptualclarity]

I think I have heard that Bill Hybels was the guy who mediated the teachings of Drucker to the church is it not true? I believe that Rick Warren was a disciple of Hybels, actually a part of his church for a while.

[@paulcooper8335]

Yes, the Methodist Episcopal Church was taking a stand on the abolition of slavery. The schism in 1844 over the slavery issue pre-dated the Civil War. The Methodist Episcopal Church stayed the MEC ("North church") and the "South church" left to become the MECS, Methodist Episcopal Church, South. The South church managed to figure out how to make the Bible say slavery was okay. Not a good example of inerrancy. The two didn't merge into The Methodist Church until 1939. Then came the merger in 1968 with the EUB Church. Now comes yet another schism.

[@63striker]

I cannot find fault with Dr Mohler at all, except for matters indifferent such as the age of the earth

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

Racism in every American institution, hiring crt advocates at the seminary, counseling the EC to waive attorney client privilege but then not doing it at SBTS, advocating against the existence of homosexual orientation and then apologizing and advocating for it and then reversing his opinion again, trafficking in metoo narrative aren’t concerning?

[@edeancozzens3833]

This is all covered in First and Second Timothy. Just read and obey.

[@gneeliesandthings6396]

If you are going to talk about NAZARENES you need to have Nazrenes ON!!

[@sofoniasgonzalez3615]

Should Christians speak up against injustice? I am asking this because the word woke is a dirty word among Christians. Does wokeness mean we should not care about injustice or racism or any other injustices that are going on? I am Hispanic and I have been discriminated for mi race , white Christians don’t believe that there is a racism going on because as a white person they have not face racism and never will be. I am speaking from experience. So as a white conservative Christians do you guys believe that our obligation as a Christians is to preach the gospel of salvation and not care if injustice happens. I really don’t know because the Bible tells me to be just with everyone even with my enemies

[@ddrse]

If you know good and evil you're both woke and progressive. Take the scales of Good and Evil off your eyes and you can made whole instead of divided against yourself

[@wenmoonson]

Oh please do tell us more of this fellowship between light and darkness.

[@deangailwahl8270]

The Church of the Nazarene ordains women pastors and believe in total sanctification this side of heaven....enough said.