Dr. Mike Israetel DEBUNKS long-length partials?! [Full ROM Science]

[@warrenhenning8064]

The quality of fitness content on KZbin in 2023 is fucking astounding. We've come a long way from Athlean-X and Elliot Hulse.

[@WolfCoaching]

It's all downhill from here 👌

[@kylemorrison2867]

Athlene X provides a lot of insight. It's good to focus on posture when strength training.

[@Sholps]

@@kylemorrison2867 This is the problem lol

[@seaofseeof]

Agreed. I breathed into my balls 10 years ago, and lefty still hasn't deflated.

[@jamesmirabal4058]

Yet., V-shred lives

[@moredots]

Something a little funny about "Mike - thanks for being here..." while sitting in Mike's personal gym at his home 😂 Awesome collab as always, great to see you guys continuing to work together. Mike's ability to see things from so many different perspectives (like sports performance or psychological) while simultaneously not diminishing his credibility based on a continuously evolving understanding of the literature is really second to none.

[@WolfCoaching]

Little known fact: I broke into his house. He didn't seem fazed - just invited me to train, instead. Mike's smart!

[@liquidcorundum6568]

@@WolfCoaching I'd love to hear one of Dr. Mike's famous story-rants about you breaking into his house.

[@EdwardLindon]

"Here" is the channel and the video, not the physical space.

[@Rave.-]

This was probably more nuanced than I've ever seen Mike be pushed to/have the opportunity to be. Loved it.

[@moredots]

And only one "engorged" joke! Almost *too* mature.

[@WolfCoaching]

Lol, thanks man! More to come!

[@JoshPerks]

@@moredotsthe whole thing was way too highbrow

[@E3T7]

@@moredotsnah I’m lovin’ it

[@ParvParashar]

It’s really great to see Dr. Mike on the channel. Loved the collaboration between you guys! Brilliant stuff. 🙌

[@WolfCoaching]

Thanks man! If people like this, I’ll consider making more.

[@goratron1]

Lengthened partials made an observable difference in my body in a little over a month. It amazed me, fyi 16 years of lifting here.

[@seaofseeof]

I think, I may have spaced on it, but he missed two pros of full ROM in my opinion: - Counting reps. I'm not a "full rom+squeeze" advocate, but I like doing the squeeze on shrug type movements, if only because I find a shrug really hard to figure out in terms of what counts as a "rep" and what doesn't. And the fine gradient of "allmost full ROM" to "slightly below full ROM" is just way too vague for me. When I squeeze at the top, I get consistent feedback that I completed x number of reps to write down and improve on. So, barring other external cues on rep completion, sometimes full ROM can help with that. I may be slightly sacrificing stimulus to fatigue for the purpose of consistent progression, but there I think it's worth it. Especially with muscles as small as the traps are. - newbie lifters probably won't know what 50% of full ROM looks or feels like without doing full ROM on new exercises first. It may be worth it for them to stick to full ROM not just for the functional benefits as Mike pointed out, but to understand how their muscles act during exercise. And the aforementioned feedback mechanism may come in handy to them to pinpoint what 50% lengthened partials are like. Some exercises have a greater range of motion than you would think, just first stepping into the gym. So exploring the totality of a ROM, they can get the most out of a truly lengthened partial as well.

[@WolfCoaching]

I agree on both points

[@ojamacuda9745]

I was expexting to hear the rep counting argument from Mike, weird he did not mention it

[@stevezes]

​@@ojamacuda9745he mentioned it in a previous revive stronger podcast

[@supercal333]

Does it even matter if you're not sure what counts as a full rep, as long as whatever you're doing gets you close to failure you've stimulated hypertrophy.

[@jmass4207]

@@supercal333Is the point here about hitting partial reps once full ROM becomes very difficult or impossible? I’ve wondered that myself about rowing movements. I could definitely bust out several reps at partial ROM or with momentum after I’ve hit failure, but it gets dicey trying to tell myself I’ve progressed when adding reps is done partially in this cheaty zone.

[@Omar1066]

Hey Milo this is a great interview. Excellent questions from you and balanced nuanced responses from Mike.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you Omar! Much appreciated.

[@mcfarvo]

Mike Israetel is a national treasure

[@gregwhite3267]

Intergalactic treasure.

[@carriepickett2687]

This was the most G-rated Dr Mike interview 😂😂😂😂

[@WolfCoaching]

You’re welcome! 🙏🏻

[@mnyshrpknvs]

Since I have started using Mike's recommended protocol for full ROM, I have seen the biggest gains than from any other protocol over a 4,6,8 and 12 week session in both hypertrophy and strength.

[@WolfCoaching]

Awesome! Stoked to hear it

[@_baller]

As far as I’m concerned, for classic bodybuilding, do it ALL, but generally stay around full rom and 6 to 15 reps, but that doesn’t mean not trying different things like pump reps or partial rom some of the time, but the bulk of effort should be in that 6 to 15 full rom zone

[@bachirche9666]

Great video, can you please just remove the music, it's so annoying!

[@WolfCoaching]

Apologies sir - I'll make it quieter in the future!

[@jaredstewmelt]

Oh jeez yeah... I got less than 2 mins in... cannot stand that music

[@baronmeduse]

Yes, abominable and unnecessary.

[@esaul17]

Came to the comments to say this. Just too loud, my smooth little brain keeps losing focus.

[@Vesko33]

To high volume but is appropriate for the mood

[@osmosinsane9611]

I did input lenghtened partials to one of my client's program with the intent of making the bloodflow easier on a certain muscle. It actually worked and fixed a calcified muscle. Worth it❤

[@WolfCoaching]

Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear it!

[@Tobiastollefson1]

Great video with Dr. M. Great to see 2 scientists decusing studies. Mike is so intelligent, open, he doesn't discount any viable studies.

[@martindamasseno5164]

Excelent video, love Dr Mike, I got to know you from the rp channel. Nice video edit, too. I would lower the music a little bit, but it's not like it bothers a lot.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thanks man! Glad you like my stuff - I’ll lower it a little.

[@mcdwub]

I tried lengthened partials for a few weeks. A few thoughts I had: - A few exercise are way more comfortable as lengthened partials, for me lat pulldown and rows. - Lat pulldows are easy to do as lengthened partials, as I can standardize technique to the top of my head. For many other exercises I had to focus on where the movement would stop, lowering mmc. - Have studies been made on exercises where the force differs? For example, bicep dumbbell curls are easy at first, then get worst around 90 degrees, then get easier. Doing a lengthened partial of 1/3 would stop you at 60 degrees, (naively assuming full rom of 180 degrees), it which point the exercise has barely started yet (or has it??). Going 2/3's of the way stops you at 120 degrees, at which point you've passed the hard parts and it seems pretty insignificant whether you continue or not. (or is it not?)

[@WolfCoaching]

Agreed on rows and pulldowns! Yes, there has been - the preacher curl, for example. The same generally holds true. If an exercise is easy in a given part of the ROM, you can lift a lot more to equate for intensity.

[@ProphetFear]

Something more esoteric is that lengthened partial deadlift variations seem to be less fatiguing when you cut out the top half. Maybe LP can revive old meta exercise builds.

[@WolfCoaching]

For sure!! Cutting out the top position on RDLs is a favourite.

[@jeffbunnell9961]

@@WolfCoachingdo you recommend cutting out the top for rdls? Will this still train the spinal erectors if that’s desirable?

[@andrijajanfranjcec6888]

Incredible video. Great stuff guys. 💪

[@WolfCoaching]

Glad you enjoyed it boss!

[@lucks2212]

7:21 Ooh, Dr. Mike is back there, watching the arm wrestling match!

[@thunderkat5282]

I don’t have a problem with Mike disagreeing with long length partials in the past. But I have a problem with how insanely adamantly he disagreed with it in the past. However, I commend him greatly on his ability to publicly accept it

[@alzero4621]

So Dr. Israetel is a Bayesian (5:02), which in a scarce-data context like this (only a handful of relevant studies so far) makes more sense than the purely frequentist approach of fully committing to the new findings. Also, as hinted by him, full ROM allows you to better exploit the negative portion of the movement, which is well-known to be highly anabolic. Bottom line: introduce LLPs whenever it makes sense to you, but don't fully replace full ROM.

[@HDLifter]

I only train on 1/3 reps--longest range training--best move I made in 4 decades! My lats, which were already my best bodypart, have taken off like crazy. My delts widened and thickened, etc. It allows a purer failure = better results.

[@Spurros]

It's interesting to see how some of the older "bro science" was ahead of its time in some ways. I remember doing DC/DoggCrap style training for calves, and that is basically using long-length partials / the fully stretched position as much as possible.

[@salahelmoudden920]

i will input lenghtened partials in my arms training in my next bulking phase , thank u dr milo and dr mike

[@WolfCoaching]

Awesome! Hope you'll get some extra growth from it

[@dmytrotkachoyv]

I've got this video into my recommendation and I enjoyed every minute of it👏

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you man! Appreciate it!

[@AnarchyDucky]

Quality content as always

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you Duck!

[@samojai]

The real reason Mike likes full ROM is because he already made shirts. Very good talk! Glad to listen to Mike's perspective on this.

[@MatthewKnouse-if9dx]

What are your thoughts on full range of motion with a controlled eccentric and then when near failure transition to lengthened partials with a controlled eccentric. Naturally it feels you will be able to handle a higher load when lengthened and only completing a partial rep.

[@seanbrown3000]

It's refreshing to see someone like Mike out there. He isn't dogmatic or ideological and is willing to change his mind. He waits for a large body of evidence to build up and slowly shifts his opinion as the confidence level in the evidence increases. This is how science is supposed to be used. Not as an unfalsifiable cudgel, but a as tool to inform us on what is most likely to be true, with varying levels of confidence, given the current evidence.

[@bc1622]

Perfectly stated

[@jadeconnell7038]

switched to horizontal pulling exercises with full rom and lengthened partials at times. my upper back and lats has never grown more

[@MattFlyFisher]

The yt algo Gawds were on my side by finding ur channel💪🏽

[@WolfCoaching]

Ayyyyy thank you dude! Appreciate it 🙏🏻

[@ALDRO88]

I have seen you on RP channel, didn't know you had one of yourself! Subscribed.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you man! Much appreciated

[@jamestipton7872]

What about people who have relatively physical jobs to go to during the day? I’d like to work out like they do on the RP channel. However, I have to pick up heavy stuff at work.

[@WolfCoaching]

Hmm, autoregulate. You may need slightly lower volumes than most for hip extensors, forearms/traps and biceps. If you can, train before you go to work. Otherwise, not much to add.

[@jajahaha5451]

Woot!!! Haven’t even watched yet!!! But I know I’m gonna love it.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thanks dude!

[@chefsorrell9326]

My dad called, he wants his camping chairs back

[@WolfCoaching]

No way bro. They’re part of the RP gym now

[@the_nerd_showtv5562]

What did i got from this video? Dr.Mike doing jujitsu makes him the real life Doppo from Baki.

[@BrofUJu]

The stretch ideas and control through out has worked incredibly for me as a natural.

[@WolfCoaching]

That’s great to hear bro! I wish you even more growth 💯

[@Mr.PotatoAWESOMEFitnessTips]

Dude, just wanna say, I just read the description, didn't watched the video yet- but if slow eccentrics are DOPE, and the deep stretch is THE KEY, lengthened partials- hmmm, I've never even heard of that, and sounds like music to my years.

[@WolfCoaching]

I love the username king. Lengthened work FTW!

[@youokaybuddyfitness]

Lengthened partials worked for me with shoulders been doing them for decade but I agree with dr Mike approach

[@WolfCoaching]

Same here. Full ROM isn't a bad approach - lengthened partials may just be better, especially on certain exercises.

[@AlexS_983]

I remember John Meadows (RIP) always insisted lengthened partials for shoulders worked super well for him. It was a tip I never took seriously but I may give it a shot during my upcoming shoulder specialization

[@youokaybuddyfitness]

@@AlexS_983 that's where I got it from. He would do them for higher reps for shoulder and rear Delt. First time I tried them I couldn't believe the pump, I know not the ultimate indicator but still. Kept them since and shoulders are my most developed, could be coincidence but seeing the research now it looks like it is legit

[@GoodByeSkyHarborLive]

So what rom did you do lateral raises in for lengthen partials? I'm thinking of just doing 0 to 45 degrees and skipping the rest of the movement. Will that be enough to grow side delts?

[@youokaybuddyfitness]

@@GoodByeSkyHarborLive should be good enough. I don’t even go more than 30 degrees and it’s still very effective. I have a shoulder workout in my videos somewhere, you can see

[@drtranzocs]

Very good video, insane quality of content. I just wish the music was a little bit less loud, maybe becouse mike voic is ASMR to me.

[@duppdipp]

Do you think for the sport specific armwrestling example that it is good to maybe have hypertrophy days with lengtened partials, and sport specific days with short partials?

[@douglasauruss]

Hey Milo, I think I have been getting some shoulder pain on one side -- maybe approaching a slap tear (labrum tear) from doing chest pressing exercises with a deep stretch. Any tips on avoiding shoulder injury while still trying to get a deep stretch? Or basically avoid going so deep and just train in a reasonably longer muscle length?

[@WolfCoaching]

Try a variety of exercises and see what hurts and what doesn't. Try a higher rep range and a more controlled tempo. I would beware of trying to self-diagnose: instead of trying to identify a pathology, treat it as pain and navigate it as best you can through training modifications.

[@94EyeEagle]

The music choice was rad. Was expecting you two to in lean in for a lip-to-lip any moment 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@WolfCoaching]

We did that.. off-camera

[@kierharris976]

Im wondering what the science is on doing a full ROM set to "technique failure" and then doing a few lebgthened oartials at the end of THAT set because you will always be able to do a couple of those after ful ROM fails.

[@user-xb4ig7un4e]

Can this type of training be better/worse/equal for passive structures? From what I understand, gymnasts want to expose the bicep tendon in a stretched position to cause a stimulus that makes it less prone to injury, this also takes time to adapt... up to 6 weeks. So they also want to do this slowly. So let's say they were doing long length partials with bicep curls or seated bicep curls, can we expect something else (good or bad) besides increasing hypertrophy?

[@WolfCoaching]

It's relatively unclear. You probably do want to ease into stuff like lengthened partials, but it's not clear that it's more/less injurious than full ROM.

[@livestronger_]

The background music is quite disturbing to focus on the conversation 2:52

[@pod9363]

Upon re-watching, I kinda wanna experiment with these. I'll put them into one of my workouts and see what happens.

[@WolfCoaching]

Let me know how it goes!

[@antoinebonzon6151]

Well, I would argue that, though he says they do not emphasize the peak contraction at RP, they still do their curls with a lot of shoulder flexion which emphasize the peak contraction and the shortening of the muscle. And I was wondering whether we had any within-subject-design studies on lengthened partials vs full rom. Anyone?

[@WolfCoaching]

I agree with this. I do think their technique recommendations are gradually shifting to reflect the new evidence, though

[@SmoothHandle]

I finally starting following the research w everything focused on full stretch under load + lengthened partials for past 2 weeks. Dr. Milo, my goodness, the pumps are so much fuller than “contraction pumps.” If these lead to gains as I expect they will, I’ll feel pretty silly that I spent so much time thinking contractions are what drives the pumps!

[@WolfCoaching]

Stoked to hear that! May the growth be tremendous 🙏🏻

[@TheHaiku2]

Great conversation, though I fear that what isn't talked about enough when discussing training optimality is effect size. So, when you look at the difference between any two different modalities, how much difference does doing one over the other actually make? The answer is basically almost nothing. The difference between five reps and ten reps, the difference between two days and four days, the difference between ten sets and twenty sets, the difference between a bro split, upper lower, and push, pull, legs, and the difference between 1.6g/kg and 2.2g/kg of bodyweight in protein. The truth about all of this is, and I hate it as much as the next guy, is that it doesn't really matter, especially the more advanced you are, and especially when you aren't even making a living by being strong or jacked. Though that doesn't mean that it matters much as a novice or a non-professional either. When you consider that on average a person, that's natural, unlocks 90% of their genetic potential within 4 years i.e. 24# the first year, 12# the second year, 6# the third year, and 3# the fourth year, and then

[@WolfCoaching]

Agreed. With volume, for example, you get diminishing returns. Equally, when talking about ROM, there is next to no opportunity cost to just using the more effective ROM

[@ilcorbellodipianoia8646]

I don't agree. Even tho you don't put nearly as much mass later your training career it still makes a huge difference between a ok physique and a great, well developed one so one has to keep finding more advanced techniques to really milk the gains.

[@funniejooniejoun3913]

As for me I Have been Incorporating lengthened partials with various methods and I Certainly enjoy them but if I had to choose one it'd still be Full ROM. Main Reason is that it is easier to keep track of progress by going all the way down and all the way up, for lengthened partials it won't be exact when I am stopping the movement. Also just as RP said maybe only doing or overly emphasizing lengthened partials eventually may induce some imbalance in muscles which probably depends on the exercise and muscle. Thirdly, I Just like getting stronger on Full ROM Exercises like Bench Press, Overhead Press, and Squats and those are enjoyable and gets me hyped up at the gym to further my progress. Fourth, I actually trained in lengthened partial for long time unknowingly even before these studies were out because I incorporated lots of 1.5 reps and elevator reps on exercises such as Bench Press and Squats for over a Decade after watching Ben Bruno's videos long time ago. Ive gained great gains from them but eventually my weak points were both lock outs for bench press and squats so recently I had to incorporate shortened range partials with deadstop like pin presses and squats and finally they are going up again. Also for example of bench press, doing lengthened partials gave me big pecs but not so much for tricpes and ofc i cud do triceps isolations and gain size from them but the strength wont be specific to the pressing and by increasing pressing strength I cud use more weight on bench press and thus get better gains for chest as well. Maybe more studies come out to show how much better lengthened partial is than to full rom and change my mind later but as for now Ill keep my main as Full ROM but still incorporating lengthened partials as a side and even some shortened partials to top it off

[@funniejooniejoun3913]

I also think shortened partials are little bit underrated. Dead Stop Pin Presses and Squats Not Only Increased Lock Out Strength but really taught my Body how to grind and exert thru the rep and increase my strength a ton. Well yea ofc its strength not hypertrophy but I think the stronger I Get and be able to use higher weight for working sets, id eventually gain more muscle as well. Secondly from my experience, I dont know if this exercise count as shortened partials but One Arm Lying Band Pull Overs really gave me the Most Pump and Muscle Mind Connection I Ever Felt in My Lats. And Id say its a shortened partial because the resistance is highest during contracted position. I do think pump and muscle mind connection is not all you need for hypertrophy but I def think they play a part and just as Dr Mike Said I finally figured out how to use my lats well doing all the other exercises. Also the Pump to Damage Ratio was thru the loops because id get unlimited pump but not too much damage so I could spam one arm lying band pull overs almost everyday. I thought Id lose back/lat gains during covid lockdown but my lats became biggest its ever been at home doing One Arm Lying Band Pullovers!

[@Trevorbailey-i7s]

I find a mix of both is best do half ur set lengthen partials then finish with full rom

[@BlueDirt_ProAggressive]

Have clearly seen BB use partials to get maximum effect from an exercise then move to another exercise to finish off the ROM.

[@disastrousemouse]

Can you recover adequately from lengthened partials on a cut? Asking because the closest thing I got to lengthened partials back in the day was Doggcrapp, with weighted stretches. I didn’t attempt DC on a diet, though, because it was hard enough on a surplus.

[@lukabaric7017]

Imagine a person who always pauses at the lockout of a bench press and takes a few breaths only to sink the bar rapidly and bounce it off of their chest to heave it up. Tell them to do lengthened partials and what happens? they have to use a weight where they pause and feel a stretch at the bottom without any bouncing and guess what they'ye not resting at lockout and instead keep constant tension. by asking someone to do lengthened partials you're also making sure that they are not resting at the lockout of the movement and you're guaranteeing that they go to correct depth and feel the stretch at the bottom, any bet if they just implemented the full stretch and not resting at the top WITH FULL ROM they would just have the same gains now that they're doing the movement right. and if someone does full rom correctly to begin with but finishes off with lengthened partials then sure they'll get more from the workout from getting closer to failure

[@DJcs187]

Since training in a stretched position also tends to cause a lot of muscle soreness, could one potential application for shortened-length partials be to accumulate more volume without inducing crippling soreness? For example triceps pushdowns with a straight bar. I used to do them full ROM, but tended to get a lot of soreness from the lengthened part of the exercise and usually could not move as much weight while sometimes aggravating my elbows. I have now started to limit the ROM to where my forearm barely passes 90 degrees in relation to my upper arm, can hammer out many sets without much issue and intensity techniques like dropsets produce a ridiculous pump without elbow issues or getting too sore. But after learning about your research, I wonder if I'm hurting my gains by doing this. As a side note, I still do overhead rope extensions and decline dumbbell extensions as well to not neglect anything.

[@WolfCoaching]

Soreness is something you can get used to/will attenuate over time; I don't think it's something you need to strongly pay attention to.

[@onebluemonster239]

That camera angles paired with those orange shorts = partial motion

[@WolfCoaching]

You’re welcome 🚀💯

[@Jackjack1978.]

You can tell that he wanted start it all off with saying.."My best rationale is first, common sense." Lol Truthfully, I don't really have a side on this yet And I've been lifting for 26 years:) My initial instinct and thoughts In simplistic and raw form is that, If the load (uuhhh, Mike would chime in about now i'm guessing..lol) is being placed on any particular muscle and is producing an outstanding pump (lots of blood flow) lots of stress AND you are experienced enough to have the kind of muscle mind connection to know if that's actually happening during the lift and after the lift then I think there's nothing more that can be asked of that muscle. Whether it's a full range rep, a 3/4 movement, or whatever.... If the intensity is there, the blood flow is there, and the hurt is there then the growth will be there. I don't like to overcomplicate things. Whatever causes the most pain to whichever muscle I'm working, That's what I do. That could be a full range of motion or a not so full range of motion. I think you both win! Both of you are great. I do a lot of full range of motion for the most part depending on my body mechanics and depending on what hurts and what doesn't hurt in a bad way. So I guess I mostly do full range of motion but again, It's all about what's really connecting with the muscle the best for each individual lifter. That is all....

[@WolfCoaching]

Thanks man!

[@Jackjack1978.]

Oh my!! Is there going to be a fight!!???:) Mike already looks pissed and it hasn't even started!..lol

[@WolfCoaching]

Nah we're cool lol

[@_MrTV]

Does lengthen partials have any details or data about auxiliary growth such as tendons

[@austin6071]

The issue is people are going to hear partial reps and they’re going to do the 25%-75% of the ROM, when they absolutely need to start the concentric at full stretch and return to full stretch. It’s basically Louie Simmon’s principle of actually sitting on the box during a box squat, only in reverse where the concentric leads the eccentric. People are going to hear partials reps and do presses and pull-downs with like a partially contracted muscle the whole time, which will not lead to better gains than full ROM because at least full ROM accentuates the concentric portion from a fully stretched position.

[@WolfCoaching]

Interestingly, partials in the mid range are probably about as effective as full ROM. But yeah - people need to go deeper, generally!

[@austin6071]

Well shit, does anything mean anything anymore?

[@faithnfitnessguykk9569]

Does the mind muscle connection really help induce a theoretical muscle region hypertrophy in the shortened position? Do regional hypertrophy studies show a supposed increase in regional hypertrophy in the shortened position area? I can not get past the fact that all full ROM studies must have a stretched position phase so it will always be included in all outcomes regardless of the fullness of the range including the shortened position. It just seems to me that, at best, after mid-range not much is really going on for hypertrophy.

[@WolfCoaching]

Yeah, I’m not sold on the regional hypertrophy benefits of full ROM vs lengthened partials. Certainly, at present, I’m not aware of any data to that effect - including all the studies on LPs vs Full ROM

[@mentalpower0]

Most underrated bro in history

[@WolfCoaching]

Shout-out to Mike!

[@lorensmashing]

Hi, great topic! Doesnt this change the perspective of "failure"? Lets take calf raises for ex. If we train with full rom but focus on lengthed partials, failure will no longer be when is not possible to fully "concentric" the muscle, right? Very interesting

[@WolfCoaching]

There is likely some interplay. Part of the benefit of lengthened partials is *likely* that they essentially make you train "past failure", since you're no longer constrained by full ROM failure. However, this wouldn't explain greater distal hypertrophy, for example, and so is unlikely to explain all of the phenomenon.

[@brazzledazzle-o9w]

but theres been more than a few recent studies that have all either found no difference between long partials & full range or a significant benefit from partials. None of them found full RoM to provide more growth/activation than partials

[@xz9908]

Milo, big question I have since you appeared recently discussing the partial thing. What is at the end the real factor the drives the activation to stimuli the best, is it the fact you stretch eccentrically under control of the load to that position or the fact you start to contract concentrically from a stretched starting position?

[@WolfCoaching]

We still don't know, unfortunately! It remains to be determined :(

[@cavecity6645]

What about strength tho - If your doing long length partials are you weaker in the short length range?

[@RoidfreeSenior]

I have done plenty of partials for powerlifting, but this is a whole different thing

[@WolfCoaching]

It is, but interestingly, it seems effective for muscle growth!

[@RoidfreeSenior]

The concept does have appeal@@WolfCoaching

[@veovius]

Can you imagine seeing this guy across the mat for Round 1 of a tournament? Fuck.

[@GuaridoNutri]

So the idea is to do FULL ROM up to "failure" then throw some lp's at the end (exercise dependant)?

[@hugohorvath3800]

It Could be a good way to increase the intensity in the later stages of your mesocycle, aka “flirting with failure longer”

[@GuaridoNutri]

@@hugohorvath3800 cool, tyvm!

[@WolfCoaching]

That is one approach. A better approach may be integrated partials, where you do 1 full rep, followed by 1-3 partial reps, then another full rep, 1-3 partials, etc. This allows you to get more lengthened work in throughout the set vs getting maybe only 2-5 lengthened partials at the end of the set. Or, just do lengthened partials!

[@Morpheah]

I think a friend of Milo's said that's what he, Milo, has been experimenting with lately

[@GuaridoNutri]

@@WolfCoaching thats a great idea I might do something like 1 straight set 2 lp sets

[@johnd5619]

we need shirts with a question mark after team full rom, since its almost 2024.

[@dariofg]

Just trained back today, exclusively with lengthened partials: pulldowns and machine rows. Really liked it! Got to use 20% more weight, looking forward to see how I progress!

[@WolfCoaching]

Glad to hear that man! Should mean more growth, too.

[@catalinpa1450]

I really like ur videos! I have a question, how much do you think cutting affects strength?

[@WolfCoaching]

It depends on the rate of weight loss and your general proclivity to lose muscle (composed of genetics, how good your training etc. is). My hunch is that if you're losing weight at around 0.5% of bodyweight per week, strength loss is not an issue.

[@thunderkat5282]

What about including lengthened partials with contracted partials? “Constant tension”. Makes most sense. Choose exercises that bias the range you’re focussing on. It’s that easy. No need for insane research. Nice to know science is slowly catching up though.

[@Seanm-t1z]

All I know is the partial rep bench made my chest super huge

[@warrenmitchell3598]

King Milo back at it

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you king 🙏🏻

[@CarneGranada]

Another potential reason to use partials: I currently have an injury in my shoulder, and I can only do pressing motions in the shorted partial range. It is obviously not optimal, but it is better than not training my chest at all. And I would argue that it is decent from a rehabilitative standpoint because my pain-free ROM is increasing week by week.

[@itsallgoodman940]

Is it a good idea to do defecit pushups with dumbbells (vertically)?

[@WolfCoaching]

Yep! Great exercise for increasing the stretch

[@itsallgoodman940]

@@WolfCoaching Thanks wolf

[@prospectorbonky]

You want to be strong at all parts of the range. In my experience its best to train the short end of the range first in a workout.

[@WolfCoaching]

If that's a goal, it makes sense!

[@prospectorbonky]

@@WolfCoaching well being strong at all parts of the range is injury prevention 101 lol

[@FRESHL1887]

In the end it all comes down to fatigue and exhaust the muscle to make it grow (hypertrophy). So, everyone is correct in their concepts. The question is which is the most effective and economical method to do so. In theory you should even be able to achieve huge muscle growth by exhausting your muscle with 1000+ reps with a light weight, as long as your muscle is fatigued and exhausted afterwards. Problem here: You will not be able to perform a full workout doing 1000 reps for each muscle group, I guess.

[@werbnnerf]

I understand but ROMs are still useful. The speed of ROM is definitely superb to say something like eMMC. While great, read only memory is better

[@Bit2brain]

7:25 Devon is the king of partials.

[@bsalamak]

so.... Sam Sulek is right?

[@_baller]

Dr Mike downed 4 shots of espresso before this video

[@WolfCoaching]

Mike actually doesn't consume any caffeine!

[@_baller]

@@WolfCoaching adderall lol

[@reallyeffingcooltechnodude]

The honest answer to the second question is that RP still has loads of Team Full Rom t-shirts in their inventory. Just kidding. I hope to see a training vid or two on the RP channel in the future.

[@WolfCoaching]

There are a few coming in the not-so-distant future!!!

[@ghfjfghjasdfasdf]

“There ain’t no partial ROM… in the streets, baby!” Dr. Mike 2023

[@WolfCoaching]

Das it mane

[@serbianboss3294]

Bro how would u rate machines vs free weights?

[@WolfCoaching]

I have a video on this very topic! Check it out.

[@SmoothHandle]

Dr. Milo - Do you think that guys like Jay Cutler, who trained in the lengthened partial ROM (without benefit/knowledge of current research), owe much of their success to this style?

[@WolfCoaching]

Hmmm, I wouldn’t say “much” of their success, but perhaps a few %ages!

[@microondasletal]

The main reason why I think full ROM is better is because it creates stimulus along the whole muscle, while partials will only damage specific parts of it. If we need to break muscle fibers in order to grow, we may very well at least try to create damage in the whole length of the muscle. On large muscles like the quads, that's even more important. You won't stimulate half of it if you only do partials.

[@WolfCoaching]

To my knowledge, there isn’t a single study showing that lengthened partials only grow one/specific areas of the muscle. Could you point me towards one of these?

[@microondasletal]

@@WolfCoaching I looked it up through chatgpt. I'll be giving you its full response: "The concept that full range of motion (ROM) may stimulate muscle growth across a more extensive portion of a muscle compared to partial reps is an area of interest. A few studies touch on this: 1. **Bloomquist et al. (2013)**: - Study: "Range of motion and neuromuscular adaptation to resistance training." - Findings: This study involved training only one leg of participants and leaving the other leg as a control. The trained leg performed squats to varying depths (full, parallel, and partial ROM). Muscle thickness increased in all conditions, but the full ROM condition led to hypertrophy in both the proximal and distal regions of the quadriceps, while partial ROM primarily affected the proximal region. 2. **Nóbrega et al. (2005)**: - Study: "Effect of the range of motion on muscle strength and thickness: influence of the muscle length-tension relationship." - Findings: The study explored knee extensions performed at different ROMs and found that full ROM training increased muscle thickness more effectively across the entirety of the rectus femoris compared to partial ROM training. 3. **McMahon et al. (2014)**: - This study found that participants using a full ROM experienced greater increases in muscle size across the entirety of the muscle being trained. These studies indicate that full ROM exercises are more effective in promoting uniform muscle growth across the entirety of a muscle. On the other hand, partial ROM exercises might preferentially target certain muscle regions over others, leading to non-uniform hypertrophy. It's essential to recognize, however, that individual exercises, muscles, and even the specific sections of muscles within an exercise may respond differently. While the general trend supports full ROM for comprehensive hypertrophy, nuanced considerations are always necessary based on individual goals and circumstances." To be honest, I hadn't looked up the studies myself, and I'm to blame for that because I like to have my facts tied to reality. However, to me it seemed kinda obvious in a way, as the leg extension machine (take that as an example) doesn't provide nearly the same type of stimulus (nor to the same area) near the starting position than it does in the ending position of the movement. If you're not activating certain parts of the muscle because you're doing partial reps, that part will inevitably not grow; we need muscle breakdown for that, and that is only achieved when that part is activated to a certain degree. Full ROM seems to be better at that, both from my subjective experience (a partial doesn't feel nearly the same than a full ROM rep that targets the whole muscle) and from those studies. There are more studies that prove this, however you won't find your answers if you go directly at it. One should instead search for the difference between partials and full ROM in muscle fibers activation, or the difference in activation between exercises that offer a higher ROM vs others that offer less (seated leg curls vs standing leg curls can be a good example). More activation will lead to more muscle breakdown, which translates into more growth. That was my logic. Good video btw, Mike is one of the best ones and it's always a pleasure to see a conversation with him about topics like these.

[@WolfCoaching]

It's funny because the Nobrega study didn't actually look at full ROM to begin with. For the time being, I wouldn't recommend trying to get a nuanced answer on a scientific topic from ChatGPT.

[@LokeVidu]

good stuff man, could you lower the music volume? its quite distracting

[@WolfCoaching]

Will do! Thanks for the feedback.

[@LokeVidu]

Awaiting the next upload :)@@WolfCoaching

[@maxmassetti2392]

Music is fine just reckon it needs to be a tad quieter

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you for the feedback 🫡

[@laserlax20]

Would be so great if the music was lower or non existent

[@wdadwawdadawdwdwa4133]

Oh I'm sorry for asking you a question about regional Hypertrophy you've already dealt with

[@WolfCoaching]

All good! Happy to help

[@TheZubeK]

Hi, great video! Just one thing: I find the music to be too loud and it makes your conversation a bit hard to understand at times.

[@WolfCoaching]

Sorry about that! I’ll fix it for next time

[@dory_m78]

Thank you for not swearing

[@WolfCoaching]

Is swearing that big of a deal to you?

[@dory_m78]

@WolfCoaching I'm a practising Christian,so the answer is yes,plus I like to watch 'family friendly 'content on my TV(openly in front of my children) further I'm mindful of what I share with friends

[@peetos-chan2835]

Great video! 👍 I

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you sir!

[@_baller]

I get the idea of partial rom at the near end of a set, like the last 3 reps, also basically cheat reps, but if it’s a whole set of partials like that clown Sam Sulek does, no dumb, but his practice proves just how much steroids help you get ahead while doing less

[@WolfCoaching]

Actually, we have 5 studies comparing lengthened partials ONLY to full ROM. 4 show partials > full ROM, one shows no difference. So, no reason to expect straight LPs to be a bad idea.

[@_baller]

@@WolfCoaching so should we not be lifting weight just merely tugging at it? lol, I’ll stick to the full range for functional strength on top of the growth, is there a study showing someone doing both? That would cover those that do full rom along with some partials at set end

[@Hoaxed00]

Love the video and the collabs between you and dr. Mike, but the background music is very distracting and makes the conversation hard to follow at times

[@lesliehoyt5301]

Good content but I really dislike the background music ~ If you must have it ~ Super low would be better.

[@kapitankapow]

and i thought the real debate was big titles vs little titles