ATHLEAN-X says FULL ROM is KILLING YOUR GAINS... (Sport Scientist Reacts to Athlean-X)

In this video we react to Athlean-X's video from 2018 titled "Full Range of Motion is KILLING Your Gains!". I give my take (as a sports scientist) on his opinions.
References:
1. • Full Range of Motion i...
👇🏼 Get 15 FREE programs at my website!
wolfcoaching.com/
Follow us on socials for more:
• 📸 Wolf Coaching Instagram: / wolfcoaching_
• 💥 TikTok: / wolfcoaching
• 💻 Milo's Instagram: / wolfcoach_
If you enjoyed this video, please drop a like and SUBSCRIBE to the channel for more!
#athleanx #reaction #fullrangeofmotion
"ATHLEAN-X says FULL ROM is KILLING YOUR GAINS... (Sport Scientist Reacts to Athlean-X)"
Music from Uppbeat.
Business Enquiries: [e-mail]

[@jackryan5766]

It's funny because Athlean-X was the first fitness KZbinr I started watching, now I'm laughing at some of these "tips" from him.

[@WolfCoaching]

100%. He appeals to a younger, broader audience! Good on you for moving on, lol.. -Milo

[@danlee9049]

Same same!😂

[@EatYerVeggies]

Lol same

[@charliehaskell1926]

Same lol

[@jackryan5766]

Unfortunately after him I landed on Greg Doucette and stayed there for a couple years "Maingaining" 😂. They all just ended up becoming KZbin whores and getting out of touch with the people in the trenches.

[@gosu2212]

Please make a series of best exercises for each body part to maximize stretch mediated hypertrophy

[@cameronpearson2160]

Excellent idea

[@ratsubhan4968]

not everything benefits from it

[@WilsonPowerlifting]

Beginning is perfect - some decent advice and a lot of terrible advice. While years ago he got me excited about training and nutrition and I made some gains on one of his programs, I don’t know if the neuroticism re: mobility and injury was worth it. I believed and told friends certain exercises and methods of performing them were dangerous. I thought my technique and mobility were much worse than they actually were. Now, I don’t recommend his channel or co-sign anyone who asks about him. Thank you for this video!

[@WolfCoaching]

100% dude. For a beginner, he’s OK on some topics, but also a very mixed bag. -Milo

[@jajahaha5451]

I used to follow athlean years and years ago. lol. For the longest time I never showed any real growth and stayed the same size for years. Now I just laugh at people who see him as a fitness guru and take his advice as gold. Glad I found the real science side. Now with LPs my growth has been more noticeable. For lat raises I just use dumbbells and lean on my side on an incline bench to get more tension and stretch on the bottom.

[@WolfCoaching]

Eyyyyy glad to hear it. I actually had a similar experience with Mike Chang back in the day lol. -Milo

[@LOLI_]

The faces athlean-x makes 💀💀

[@WolfCoaching]

He do be making some faces fr -Milo

[@lakshyanirvana]

Lol totally agree with the last part, had the misfortune of spending a $100 on one of his programs and all he does is make them super hard so you feel like you're making progress but you don't get a lot of gains.

[@WolfCoaching]

RIP to your wallet

[@felipe367]

I’ve spent money on his programs and been happy following it whilst making gains as are not strictly direct result from workout plans

[@Bullseye_Strength]

It's always funny when people say *"The muscle gets a rest in this position"* like it completely diminishes the productivity of the exercise. If your setup & execution is on point, I doubt it really makes any difference.

[@WolfCoaching]

100% agree. In all likelihood, the difference between getting a rest or not is a wash. It's essentially a rest-pause set. -Milo

[@gerym341]

@@WolfCoaching Milo, maybe a video or a short on constant tension?

[@patrickg6032]

Jeff is the perfect example that u dont need to be particulary good at ur job to be very succesful. U good with words? Ure 80% there

[@Vladadoha]

Keep on great work bro🙌🏻

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you, I will!

[@SchmittsPeter]

Getting slight Dr. Mike vibes here 😀.

[@WolfCoaching]

Basically plagiarism. Trying our hand at this KZbin game. -Milo

[@Ask-Ali]

Oh man this is a good one to review can’t believe he slipped my mind. So just curious would the “worst exercises” be ones that the opposite of lengthened partials? No tension in the lengthened position and are hardest in the shortest?

[@WolfCoaching]

Yep, exactly. Examples: leg extensions, kickbacks, bent over dumbbell flies, etc.

[@gerym341]

@@WolfCoaching still not worthless, just inferior at building muscle, correct? Don't leg extensions and bent over flies have their place in a strength program? Especially bent over dumbbell flies - mentioning them because I believe they are beneficial for my shoulder health (just a hunch only :) ). But I guess kickback is pretty poor for building anything, right? Maybe worth considering if you can't do much else due to an injury?

[@maxbremer903]

​@@WolfCoaching would you still recommend leg extensions for full quad development? Since you can hit the rectus femoris with them

[@gerym341]

another cool video, Milo. Thank you. As an idea for future videos - what about the exercises you recommend? E.g., the kickback, so hated by you due to not working at a longer muscle length was praised (maybe to strong of a word) by Jeff Nippard. Maybe you could reflect on that? Other than that, keep up the grea work. Enjoying your videos a lot, man. On another personal note - I can't seem to get my upper chest working when doing incline presses. However, my upper chest seems to grow a bit when doing guillotine dumbell presses. Steady tempo, even slow, stretched at the bottom with light weights as this exercise strains my shoulders. Of course is not the case for many people but for me seems to be the case (i.e. guillotine working while incline press not really).

[@WolfCoaching]

This is also the case for me, FWIW. I’ll make some videos to that effect! Exercises I recommend Vs don’t . -Milo

[@gerym341]

@@WolfCoaching fantastic! Can't wait :)

[@lazur1]

How about lying on your side for db side raises? It reverses the resistance curve, putting the most resistance at the stretch position.

[@WolfCoaching]

Yep! Really solid option.

[@MT-hy6pr]

The point about pain being bio-psycho-social and the bad effects of fearmongering is a profound one that deserves a video of its own.

[@wertyuiopasd6281]

I train both lengthened and shortened position exercices. Both has benefits and I would advise to have exercices for both. However, a greater portion of exercices should be for the lengthened position for hypertrophy. If you're not an athlete, the shortened position is less important. Also the lengthened position actually signals way more adaptations for the connective tissues, skipping it may detrimental over the long term.

[@atlas.vegard5830]

Great video! 💪💪

[@WolfCoaching]

Glad you liked it!

[@peterferland7988]

Is Athleanx working out in a sweatshop in the Philippines? Why is he out of breath demoing exercises lol.

[@WolfCoaching]

LMAO, true

[@kiyoupon]

Probably pre fatigues his muscles to look extra good on video It's done in movies, social media photos so no reason why not here.

[@arunavachatterjee8078]

Cable triceps kickback is a more effective version imo. But then it's almost a push down from a different angle

[@Minivanmusician]

Man that biopsychosocial thing is so crucial

[@WolfCoaching]

100% man. You need to understand it to best manage any pain from training.

[@richardtrass]

Ha. I think it’s a thing. I’m sure that’s why I feel pain doing upright rows.

[@gn2540]

Excellent video.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you very much!

[@drewqqq]

In my post-graduate studies, I was taught full ROM training with an emphasis on eccentric phase will lead to increased sarcomeres in series and an increase in fascile length, whereas concentric shorter ranges leads to sarcomeres in parallel and a greater cross sectional area. If that's the case (and I'm not an expert obviously), wouldn't body builders be more interested in increasing CSA and pennation angle through short ROM reps?

[@WolfCoaching]

So, while it’s possible that’s the mechanism at play, the jury for ROM is still very much out. We need more evidence before we can make that claim

[@albertfitzgerald2309]

Makes sense. Phil Heath is on record to prefer short range and is known to have some of the most bubbly muscle bellies in bodybuilding, to the point where he was named ‘the Gift.’ Many great Olympians built their bodies using shorter ranges.

[@GoodByeSkyHarborLive]

which post graduate studies?

[@drewqqq]

​@@GoodByeSkyHarborLive Does my studies influence the point I'm making?

[@jaouherkoussani]

I agree that the tricep kickback is not the best for growth but it gives strength gains in the shortened range

[@byron0019]

This made my day

[@hanu9830]

the irony is that while relaxing into the fully stretched position DOES momentarily take some tension off the muscle, contracting FROM that relaxed position is often much harder than keeping the muscle tense. when doing DB shoulder presses, it takes a lot more effort to relax and let the shoulder drop before picking it back up again

[@warrenhenning8064]

Picking a shitty tricep exercise to talk about full ROM is a great example of how with a contrived, bad example you can prove whatever you want

[@WolfCoaching]

100% lmao. When I saw it was the kickback he was demonstrating... I knew we had him. -Milo

[@Trener_Artem]

Hey Milo, what do you think about Chris Beardsley and his critique of stretch under tension hyperthrophy?

[@WolfCoaching]

I'm skeptical on a lot of accounts. I've spoken about it at-length on the N1 podcast, for example! -Milo

[@felipe367]

He’s not fear mongering he’s telling it as it is from his physio background not from a PHD background

[@Yupppi]

I've come to think that big part of what Cavaliere says comes from his own shoulder injuries. And that he has developed a way to train around them. However promoting the same to everyone and using it as preventative method is a bit weird. Like you don't train like someone who has an injury just to prevent the injury. And furthermore you don't get injured by doing that which you avoid because you got injured and can't do it. It's also curious that initially I didn't find working out shoulders was in my interests and that many isolation shoulder exercises just didn't feel like they did much at all (including the programs he advises, the burn was real, not sure about the gains). Then I started dabbling with olympic lifting and doing cleans just exploded the shoulders. That feared internal rotation of shoulders. That lengthened relaxed position that doesn't have the shoulders kick in. That's what suddenly grew me shoulders in a very short time. That snatching where arms go behind the shoulders. Zero injuries, my shoulders are actually healthier than in all my adult life (just an anecdote, not a proof, but the personal experience is quite different).

[@Chappelle-JT4TP]

Maybe the burn primarily grows slow-twitch fibers. Those do not contribute to too much size, rather endurance.

[@OneWithanOrgan]

I can't believe he was speaking against ROM with DB overhead presses. That's insane to me. Learning to bring the DBs to down to my shoulders is one of the two things that really helped my shoulders grow. Sure, you can't lift as much weight, but in my experience, it pays off nicely. Funny thing, the other thing that really helped my shoulders is face pulls, which AthleanX was the one who sold me on them back in the day. I just wish his information were at least consistent in quality, whether good or bad.

[@MIStrZZZ]

10/10 thumbnail

[@MrApaHotel]

Dumbbell kickbacks are like using goto in C 😅

[@jameshowsemusic]

Is it true that the Athlean X video is over 5 years old? From what I've seen, a lot of the strong evidence for hypertrophy with lengthed partials and lengthened positions etc. is pretty new by comparison?

[@mitchellcotton7346]

Not sure when the evidence base started to grow in favour of long muscle lengths and stretch-mediated hypertrophy, but this video is definitely very old.

[@loganwolv3393]

Speaking of pain during exercies, when it comes to deadlifting, a bit of rounding i believe it's actually harmless because first of all it's near impossible for me to notice, only other dudes at the gym ever notice that, but when it rounds significantly then yeah it definently hurts.

[@ucyqweyq7whucvn141]

To be fair, there was very little research about muscle lengths in 2018 and without the research that's available today, it would have been impossible to gauge the effectiveness of partial range of motion and muscle lengths. Jeff made the unfortunate mistake of using soreness and metabolic fatigue to evaluate exercise effectiveness.

[@codyypeng]

Interesting how i watched it back then but thanks to all the people at rp and sbs and bbm im so disappointed at jeff video. On the dumbbell lateral raise there can be a valid argument to end the rep at the bottom. That temporary rest can allow for more volume which we KNOW is very important for growth. We dont workout to make an exercise harder. We work out to get bigger or stronger.

[@dannybyrnes1052]

I do the trycep kick back in the same position but with a cable, more tension

[@chefsorrell9326]

Sir wolfy , I need inspiration from missing the gym for 2 weeks being ill. Have I most lost everything, am I just a skeleton now, what’s the more realistic outcome

[@WolfCoaching]

You’ll regain lost muscle/strength very quickly! Just go in to the gym, do some lifts that you enjoy. -Milo

[@ezekielmartins4530]

bro you sound like there's some personal vendetta mixed in your critique

[@enumclaw79]

If I've hurt myself and I need actual physio therapy advice I find Jeffs older videos from 5-7 years ago invaluable and I will always be grateful for the help I've received, esp for persistent back pain that, using Jeffs videos, I was able to identify as being cause by shortened hip flexors and fix with the right stretching. But most of his recent stuff is pretty clearly pseudoscience nonsense. He even had one recently with quotes from Mike Mentzer saying that a bicep curl only put tension on the elbow end of the bicep, and that a front lat pulldown was better for biceps because it moved two joints... Ignoring the fact that your bicep actually gets longer at the shoulder as you lower your arms, so it's not even a contractive movement...

[@bradekegren1723]

So glad you mentioned the biospychosocial model. Barbell Medicine mentions this model quite frequently…

[@WolfCoaching]

Yep, often overlooked by fitness influencers IMO. BB medicine are great!

[@Strugglerrrr]

Here before the channel blows up

[@WolfCoaching]

Ayyyyy thank you dude! 🤗

[@ezradanger]

What does he know about gains anyways? Dude has been the same size since i first came across his chamnel like ten years ago.

[@roggermoriozambela5796]

GREAT CONTENT! I HONESTLY APRECIATE YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you Roger! Much appreciated 🫶

[@xIronwafflexx]

I don't have a belief that if I round my back, it will cause injury. I know that if I round my back, it will cause injury. There is a caveat to this though. I fragmented my my L4 and herniated my L3 years ago, and if I round my back with any kind of load, especially if I'm not conscious about keeping my core tight, my disc will bulge and I'm in pain for the next 6-10 days. For anyone with a healthy back, rounding is going to be fine.

[@lazur1]

Some guys love w/midrange &/or full contraction, & see the stretch as something to shoot past. This's reinforced by pros w/such good genetics that it didn't matter, (Sergio Oliva Sr's midrange curls).

[@WolfCoaching]

100%. ROM is importantly but nowhere near as influential as genetics, hard work, etc.

[@mattc4266]

Soon to be dr wolf is the leg extension horrible since it has similar ROM and strength curve to the tricep kick back ?

[@WolfCoaching]

Yep! That’s correct. The leg extension is likely worse for growth than something like a reverse Nordic curl or a sissy squat.

[@mattc4266]

@@WolfCoaching even when including the instability of the sissy squat ?

[@koundamanee]

All your videos are very insightful with evidence from studies. Swearing at others doesn't make it cool.

[@ratch33stokes39]

Lol 😂😂 love the comments 'now Dr Wolf' The constant "time under tension" constantly is bullshit.. it's just reps while being in a static rep all the same time. I might be wrong but common sense tells me being under constant tension could be a higher risk for injuries. Especially jerking the reps and not doing them controlled.. You're my favorite from now on.. thanks wolf

[@larsnystrom6698]

I have noticed before that Jeff doesn't really understand biomecanics. He once said that dips don't train the triceps! Something about the lower arm has to be perpendicular to gravity for triceps to work. Here he doesn't understand that triceps kickback isn't in the extended range of motion. So he hasn't grasped the idea behind this kind of training! Triceps extention overhead is the right exercise for that. And I mean in cables, not dumbbells..

[@davidguillemette380]

@milo the look on your face is priceless

[@WolfCoaching]

LMAO, thanks David. -Milo

[@Kyle-ys3cv]

His advice on lateral raise is probably correct though- first ~15 degrees is rotator cuff (and not side delt).

[@mitchellcotton7346]

Shoulder adduction from any position is primarily deltoids. The first 15 degrees is initiated by the RC (Supraspinatus in particular) theory has been largely disproved. The Supraspinatus does not activate to a greater degree or earlier than the deltoids upon starting adduction.

[@hurryhurry9723]

You remind me of one famous austrian painter with that accent

[@WolfCoaching]

I'll have to look into my lineage...

[@chayoto]

I am concerned that the biopsychosocial model of pain is brought to bear while its interpretations have been varied and controversial.

[@WolfCoaching]

I think I saw you comment on Omar’s video, too. I think there are two notable areas in which evidence for the bps is solid. First, as regards risk of injury being impacted by stress, sleep, beliefs/contextual factors etc. Secondly, as regards pain perception/nociception being impacted by stress, sleep, beliefs/contextual factors. -Milo

[@FormlessJKD17]

Dr or not, if different methods work then why bother arguing. You guys are supposed to be professional. Whatever. Want to see real results and training? Look at the street calisthenics ppl. They embrace and welcome different methods instead of bashing each other. Ffs

[@salmon8765]

Same here!

[@lucaslouzada44]

This is a video where he puts tut above rom. I doubt there isn’t one where he says the exact opposite with a “killing your gains” cherry on top…

[@Simonet1309]

Hang on, what you mean there are different views and opinions!! Who would have thought 😂

[@Burkhimself]

This is hilarious

[@vincentruben4365]

Biopsychosocial model is real when it comes to pain, but it goes both ways: fear motion no gainz, or fuck up your lumbar spine like Ronnie Coleman. There is a healthy way of performing all kinds of physical labor and an unhealthy way that leads to old folks saying: you better do it your back is still young and fresh.

[@thebodychange666]

Lmao "what the FUCK is that tricep exercise??!" DrM rarely utilises profanity but when he does he goes to 0-swears-in-reserve

[@WolfCoaching]

WE DON'T PLAY AROUND (aka editor forgot to mute it) -Milo

[@Roeinesmati]

athleanx the goat

[@Franky-zc3xx]

I agree with your criticisms but the clickbait thumbnail featuring the gesture is unnecessary in my opinion.

[@WolfCoaching]

It’s part of the game unfortunately. If it’s a means to the end of delivering superior information to more people, it’s a trade-off I’m willing to make. -Milo

[@Franky-zc3xx]

Your channel, your call. Can't wait to see the vshred thumbnail!

[@brettdunham355]

Do Drew Baye next.

[@serbianboss3294]

Slow eccentric = ez gainsss

[@WolfCoaching]

For sure - though you don’t need to go overboard, either -Milo

[@serbianboss3294]

@@WolfCoaching Yo Milo I was wondering do you think that one of the reasons why chimpanzees have such insane lats is the eccentric pullup they do non stop? Basically they hang of the tree all the time. Hairless chimp looks sooo much like humans and I thought that has to be one of main reasons for such high hypetrophy.

[@patrickg6032]

F'ing love it when u say " F No, F off" 😂😂

[@liamburns8554]

I mean why the hell did he choose this exercise

[@WolfCoaching]

My thoughts exactly!

[@liamburns8554]

@@WolfCoaching it has utility with a cable as the tension is constant… but I still wouldn’t do it.

[@ya4eburashka]

Well I get that you don't like Jeff. It's obvious. Maybe you should reconsider be that toxic about it. Screaming "fuck off" is not going to prove anything. It's okay to disagree, but all this video is based just on your opinion. If you're a scientist as you claim, it would be great to back your words with some actual science papers. Or maybe it's some new kind of science, where people just screaming "fuck off" to prove a point?

[@WolfCoaching]

I have quite a few videos with references in them. If there's a topic you're curious about, check them out.

[@ya4eburashka]

@@opabiniaregalis6197Nope. My point was not the tone itself, but that there is nothing there to it

[@ya4eburashka]

I began my comment adressing what I felt this video is about. And this video is about author really really do not like Jeff. Maybe if it was some new hot video frm Athlean-X, I would agree that was just a follow up comment . But it's from 2018, come on. Milo just found the weak spot (or something he deemed as such) and attacked there. And I'm totally ok with that btw, people sometimes dislike each other. Yes, it is unusual to cite scientific papers, but not when you call yourself Sport Scientist and literally subtitle a video with that. Your last phrase is hilarious. If others should not discredit Jeff's claims, then this video is wrong? If your point is that I should not comment on the video, then in the same way you should not comment on my comment? :) And Milo made a bunch of claims without defending it, which I pointed out. You called it "tone police"))

[@ya4eburashka]

@@opabiniaregalis6197 Are you really trying to say that this video is logical and not emotional with a straight face? I did not discredit the content because there is nothing to discredit, there is my whole point. Two men telling different things without backing anything. But one of them calls himself a scientist, using purely emotions as some kind of argument. If you read the title, then you can see that it's a reaction from Sport Scientist, if it was some common dude, I'd just passed by without any issue. Maybe Wolf has many videos with great scientific backings, but it happend so KZbin recommended this one to me, and I'm not really tempted to check out other videos. As for your last point, I wholeheartedly agree. It is a silly clicbait video. I was mislead by the claim that it's from some scientist, which is what I expressed. So now we both on the same page regarding "content of the video" without any "childish speculations on Wolf's motives".

[@Jimaniac58]

"No..Fuck off!" I love it!

[@TheBaitShopGuy]

I like some of Athlean X stuff and I don't like some of his stuff too. I say Milo knows way more about range of motion in weight training than Jeff.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thanks man! Yeah, Jeff recently spoke on ROM, and I was pleasantly surprised.

[@thomashaskins3709]

Lol v sheds adverts

[@SayWhatSuca]

I get what your saying, but not all avoidance of particular positions is due to fear mongering. We have had Dr. Stewart McGill over twice, and I've read all of his work. His lab work is fantastic and the rounding of the back during deadlifts is not a good idea. Can you get away with it for a bit....sure....but that will catch up to you. So I am always weary when someone starts slightly advocating for that type of training.

[@nikolasdeclercq3348]

Yo bro don’t be this mean to jef chevalier 😢 he’s not a soon to be doctor like u ❤

[@WolfCoaching]

RIP JEFF CHEVALIER -Milo

[@daledykes9253]

Doesn’t Wolf advocate for lengthened partials these days ? That doesn’t sound like full ROM. Wouldn’t it be funny if everybody ended up agreeing with Joel Seedman ? Horrors!

[@cyclist5000]

I wonder if there are any new ones. That video of Jeff's is 5 years old...

[@WolfCoaching]

Unfortunately, I don't think so. All I found on ROM was this! -Milo

[@cyclist5000]

@@WolfCoaching Wow!

[@Minivanmusician]

Lol all he used to do was teach full ROM...he used to be GREAT but he just makes quantity now

[@WolfCoaching]

I think most of his advice has always been “good enough”, but not really sound, either -Milo

[@Minivanmusician]

@@WolfCoaching the physical therapy related stuff is what I go to him for.

[@efrayimbulka2292]

Great video! Just wanted to point out that Jeff definitely talks about the lengthened position in some of his recent videos. His titles are way to clickbaity though.

[@WolfCoaching]

Oh damn! I was unaware of this. that's very cool.

[@efrayimbulka2292]

@@WolfCoaching I would say you should review videos that are recent as it isn't fair to rip people apart for their views from a few years ago but Jeff was asking for it with that title

[@codycale2526]

@@efrayimbulka2292 I disagree. Jeff is the single most dogmatic fitness KZbinr. Jeff doesn't change his opinions. He continues to preach the same fear mongering video after video. Whatever gets him clicks is what he puts out.

[@QuartzTech]

Thanks for going in on him spewing nonsense for years. I wish more people saw your videos and less of people like him.

[@WolfCoaching]

Thanks dude! Much appreciated. -Milo

[@faithnfitnessguykk9569]

Wow.

[@WolfCoaching]

I’m going to assume this is good 🙌 -Milo

[@faithnfitnessguykk9569]

@@WolfCoaching Yep.

[@Kyle-ys3cv]

Not many solid critiques in this one.

[@warrenmitchell3598]

The Wolf

[@WolfCoaching]

Wolf on Wall Street -Milo

[@Aniviper]

Good points on your end, but a bit harsh no? Video was over 5 years ago and I think Athleanx's latest videos showing him going full ROM in regards to shoulder presses. With that said though, Jeff Nippard is also a fan of the triceps kickback: kzbin.infoCywhB_MNJ6o I think the philosophy for most folks who isn't into bodybuilding or competing is whatever exercise gets you and makes you stay at the gym.

[@WolfCoaching]

Yeah, I disagree with Jeff on that one - I saw him today and mentioned it. For sure. -Milo

[@elvisincali]

Hi there Dr. Wolf... fyi... I totally enjoy most of your informative videos... you obviously have a great education and lots of knowledge... The ONLY NEGATIVE I would give you... is thinking you have to swear and use the F word... I know you got the habit from your fat, bald, doctor friend... can't remember his name... I stopped watching him because he uses the F word way too much!!! Please, be professional, and clean up your vocabulary... thanks!👍

[@jujoijo]

Algorithmmmm

[@WolfCoaching]

Thank you young king -Milo

[@stevenzak199]

I'd just point out the obvious: that Jeff wasn't doing a triceps video. He picked the kickback exercise not because he was advocating it as the best way to build triceps but just to illustrate the point that the most useful range of motion isn't necessarily the most full range possible. That would actually sync well with the idea that lengthened partials can be more useful than full ROM, though they are distinct points. I notice that you criticized Jeff for stopping his dumbbell side laterals short of hanging straight down, your grounds being that that wouldn't be the case with cable side laterals, where straight down and even beyond WOULD stretch the side delts. Criticizing his advice about the one exercise on the grounds that his point wouldn't apply to a completely different exercise is obvious nonsense - particularly when he himself shortly afterwards made the same point about the relative benefits of the cable side lateral. The one thing I did learn from your video, aside from the obvious fun it must be to target the very successful Jeff Cavalier, particularly on his cautious, avoid-injury-first approach (which approach I gravitate towards because I've had shoulder problems in the past, found them to be a horrible nuisance, and hope to never have them again), was that constant tension may not offer as much benefit as people once thought. For that insight, I thank you.

[@streetdogg8206]

Had some similar thoughts. Most of what Jeff is saying there is relatively legit. The tips for the triceps kickbacks are legit, but a bit obvious. And yes, it's not the best exercise in the first place, but that's kinda not the point. On lateral raises his tips are also true. The lower part is kinda pointless and other very science based people have also suggested skipping it. I guess getting a short rest at the bottom or keeping the constant tension is kind of a matter of taste, but it's not generally bad advice. And both of you suggested cables as the better option, so I don't really see why the hate. For the sholder press it's more or less the same thing, but I guess you can go down further and not fully rest, so you get the best of both worlds. Staying in the scapular plane is what more or less everybody advices, though. All in all I'd say maybe half the critique of Jeffs advice is at least somewhat legit, but the other half seems a bit unfair and would probably not have been made, if somebody else made the same video. But maybe others wouldn't have klick-baited with killed gains so much, so maybe he deserves it a bit for that. ;)

[@robingeveke6001]

Great video content-wise. Bit too much strong language/swearing in my opinion. Your points will come across without the swearing as well

[@WolfCoaching]

I may try and tone it down in future videos. I do swear a lot in everyday life, but I understand it may not be your cup of tea -Milo

[@MT-hy6pr]

Never heard Dr. Milo swear before, loved it. Now I've been lifting and put on size, I realise how skinny Jeff Cavaliere is. All these influencers are tiny guys who rely on downlighting and being lean - if you met them clothed in daily life, you wouldn't even know they lifted.

[@Matty-pn9fy]

669'th like

[@danielmillward9947]

What is that accent 🤔

[@WolfCoaching]

I don’t quite know myself!

[@akashmakkar7187]

As someone with arthritis with severe enthesitis, Jeff Cavaliere's advice is the top notch for pain-free movement, and I've used his resistance band exercises to great effect and been able to workout without flaring up pain in tendons. So, irrespective of exercise scientists gaming algorithm and trashing him to get views, I know for sure now that Jeff's advice is gold, and so do the thousands of people telling him in the comments that it helped them too.

[@akashmakkar7187]

And also, as you found out with lateral raises, Jeff has been recommending doing it that way for a long time. So, unless this video was previously scripted, the on spot reaction without really seeing what's coming ahead just throws so much negativity in the air. Not helpful.

[@kapoioBCS]

You are objectively and scientifically wrong

[@WolfCoaching]

If you think I watch Athlean-X’s content, think again. This was unscripted. -Milo

[@mediocrelifter950]

curlean x is not based at all

[@WolfCoaching]

Fr fr

[@dory_m78]

Swearing ain't cool

[@Oliver-fu6ig]

You seem very angry.

[@DavidSanchez-cc7sq]

Most & only swearing by you than in any of your videos 😮

[@Laerun]

Yet another arrogant know it all attempting to debunk someone who's knowledgeable, famous, and holds an actual meaningful position in life. Sorry, not interested.

[@umerbsr]

Yet another dogmatic blind fanboy who got his feelings hurt, this is not a personal attack on jeff, its a completely valid critique

[@myheart2joy588]

Clout chasing on youtube... just put athlean-x in the title...too easy

[@billleach7915]

I used to drink the Jeff Clow Kool-Aid (I even spent a lot of money on his crappy programs) then I actually learned to lift weights. He did a video on your sleep position is killing your gains. Watching Jeff Clow videos is killing your gains for real.

[@94jmh]

🦍🔥🦍

[@WolfCoaching]

MY GUY -Milo