Dragon Age 2 Chantry Destroyed Scene

[@ginew07]

Everything was so tense and messed up, but how easily I convinced Fenris to hell me fight was absolutely hilarious “I don’t understand why you fight with these mages for” “Fenris, buddy, come help me defend these mages” “Alright”

[@theunfamousone2818]

yeah i felt the same way it was so easy to convince to join hawke i even expected to kill him and was preping for that

[@simonepistidda3545]

Hawke "what do you want? Win?" Fenris "ehm... Knight commander, I change my mind" Meredith "I never ask for your help" XD

[@SeventhheavenDK]

@@simonepistidda3545 . 😂, True Meredith's reaction is priceless.

[@eightsrevolution6978]

XD

[@johnnyboogalo4897]

I won't help mages,Be a lot cooler if you did,Ok i will help you hawke!

[@ginew07]

Sebastian felt like he was added in honestly just for that brief “Elfina noooo”

[@vermilion6966]

xD

[@SeventhheavenDK]

I never got Sebastian, paying real money for him is not worth it for what I have seen.

[@zoetaylor9100]

@@SeventhheavenDK He was Day 1 DLC, which means much like Javvik from ME3 he was designed to be in the base game but cut out and sold as DLC. Very dumb on EA / Biowares part.

[@GSSAGE7]

Not just the "Elthina, no!" shout, but the fact that he literally pointed out the obvious ("Why are we debating the Rite of Annulment, when the monster responsible for this is standing right here?!") and everybody ignores him.

[@Rhysdux]

Elthina was useless. No matter what the crisis, she could be counted on to do absolutely nothing.

[@DngrDan]

It's such a stab in the chest when Orsino turns out to be a bloodmage.

[@dajointcf4803]

he also was a friend of that blood mage who killed hawke's mother and the other women and orsino never reported that twisted evil piece of shit

[@beiyongzui]

And he turned at the worst possible moment

[@MohamedHossam-mn5cg]

I don't think he was he just knew how to use it, but only used it when he felt there was no hope

[@Just_a-guy]

@@MohamedHossam-mn5cg but helped develop it. He send books to Quentin that killed hawke mother

[@amauriherrera6022]

Dude, the real kick is not him being a blood mage but being an accomplice to Quentin, the infamous serial killer that went uncaught in Kirkwall for 6 years and supporting his necromantic research with dark forbidden literature. It is this patronage that allows Quentin to develop the ritual to resurrect people. This in turn prompts Quentint to collect women's body parts, Orsino is indirectly responsible for Leandra's death. RIP Orsino is a polite and reasonable snake, but he is still a snake. He holds off on Blood Magic until his apprentices get massacred but he is cool when his sponsoring of a serial killer ruins people's lives for 6+ years...Yes, the Templars were out of control in DA2 but Orsino was full of shit; him not imposing his beliefs makes him a polite person but not a good one.

[@feliksdzierzynski1389]

shit, that moment was so unexpected, imo one of the best moments in the entire series

[@theoroderick782]

yep

[@MandalorianRevan]

I honestly yelled "What the Fuck!?" When I first saw that. After investing in so much time trying to be neutral and keep the peace between mages and templars, for Anders to undo all my work in an instant was devastating.

[@veronikacherkashina173]

You know, the moment I walked out of the Chantry after helping Anders it hit me so hard and I was like "THE GUY WANTS TO BLOW UP THE CHANTRY" and the explosion itself was so powerful and epic

[@cryora]

When he changed his outfit to renegade, I thought it was just a game cosmetic reward for completing the quest, but it actually was related to the story.

[@TheSenhorcaioo]

@@MandalorianRevan I really hated Anders for that.

[@lexuschambe5787]

Chantry: exists Anders: Peace was never an option

[@MandalorianRevan]

Oversimplifying much. Elthina sat on her hands. The Chantry was preoccupied with maintaining the Status Quo. Meredith was mad with power while hopped up on Red Lyrium and Orsino was a weak leader who was getting more and more desperate. There were no innocents involved here. In the end, Anders was right. Even with the Vivian as Divine Victoria and the Templar ending of Dragon Age Inquisition, Anders achieved his goal of improving things for mages.

[@MandalorianRevan]

And to top of off, Meredith wasn't even the first Knight-Commander to illegally involk the Right of Annulment. The Dairsmund Circle in Antiva was wiped out by Templars on dubious grounds and the Chantry covered it up. Anders' actions made that impossible to happen to the Kirkwall Circle.

[@azureheart2846]

@@MandalorianRevan I hated Elthina. I’m glad Anders blew her up. She lied to the Divine about how poorly the situation was. She did nothing to stop Petrice. She actually refused to do her job in stopping Meredith, because she’s actively breaking Chantry Law in Act 3. And most personally, she tried giving credit to what _WE_ did in DAO to the Maker.

[@addisonwelsh]

@@MandalorianRevan Anders justified the annulment of the Kirkwall circle.

[@fohawk871]

@@addisonwelsh facts. In an effort to prove all mages weren't criminals or possessed blood mages, he himself became the proudest possessed blood mage terrorist criminal he possibly could. At that point, there really was no choice but right of annulment. There was no other course of action to be had

[@vexn3699]

What a great climax. Yeah, it's not Origins, you don't fight a dark god and save the world, but I felt more involved in this conflict because of the way it's structured. You see the rise of the Champion, you live through the rising tensions between templars and mages, the stakes get higher and higher, and then, you have to make a choice: do you murder the guardians against the corruption of the demons (corruption you've seen run rampant throughout the game), or do you participate in the extermination of wrongfully accused mages? All because two madmen were in place to make a powder keg ready for Anders to blow up.

[@HalfTangible]

It's somewhat undercut by the fact that Orsino is absolutely 100% guilty and iirc you find a ton of blood mages in the Gallows.

[@vexn3699]

@@HalfTangible guess they were trying to go for nuance. As in, you're not a monster for going through with the rite of annulment, mages were escaping the Circle, giving in to demons and causing death and destruction in Kirkwall. Even good templars, like Thrask, fell victims to it because of their good heart. Sure, not all the mages fell so low, but when pushed to that extreme, all had that potential, and that's why the rite was called. If you support the templars, you're not killing innocent pups, mages really are dangerous, and Meredith did have a reason to fear them, even if that fear drove her mad. Personally, I support the mages. I'd rather spare a guilty than kill an innocent. But you wouldn't be wrong if you chose the templars either, because in the end, Orsino was a madman, same as Meredith.

[@ВладиславШаклеин-ч7м]

@@HalfTangible Guilty of what? He merely has knowledge of Blood Magic, that alone does not make him active practitioner. If anything, knowing inner workings of something is very likely to provide one with better insight on how to counter it. And, since he claimed never resorting to blood magic until cornered, which is literally his last stand - what are you accusing him of?

[@HalfTangible]

@@ВладиславШаклеин-ч7м Orsino also forms his flesh golem if you side with him and trounce the Templar's forces sent to slay him. Yeah, there's a difference between "knowing" and "actively participating" but forming a golem out of corpses is not exactly entry-level blood magic.

[@ВладиславШаклеин-ч7м]

@@HalfTangible Does that really contradict anything I've said? Orsino is a First Enchanter already, which indicates him being a very resourceful mage by itself, and he did have access to the research of the mage responsible for the death of Hawke's mother. With those alone, his academic knowledge of Blood Magic can be vast enough, and even if it wasn't, he might have even dug up something in the more... restricted libraries of the Circle to make a stand against an overwhelming force of Templars. The big thing here is him proclaiming he never used blood magic on what is essentially his deathbed, because I find it hard to believe the spell such as that is reversible and Orsino and the world (and Orsino himself) knew him would perish when he'd use it. Hence, he had no reason to lie in his final moments. More likely, he had enough skill to figure out and cast a spell, but since he attacked everyone in vicinity first thing after he did, he lacked the expertise to control it, which one can advocate to his knowledge of blood magic being only academic. Btw, I'm not sure if a flesh golem is THAT much of a feat, because we did see an *apprentice* who didn't even qualify for Harrowing back in DA:O escape the room with a First Enchanter, a Knight-Commander and a few templars present using blood magic.

[@rahulsar2030]

Anders had a point here. It was he who destroyed the chantry,not the circle. But the Knight commander choose to kill all circle mages instead of 1 mage. That shows how warmonger Templar really are.

[@vitcher9386]

not all of them wanted this. Besides, not all mages are innocent. Both sides are misguided.

[@SUpersaiyajinjerkbag]

Except pretty much every mage in this game (even Orsino) is a piece of shit.

[@SUpersaiyajinjerkbag]

@Sinochu Did you play the game? Anders and ORsino are both corrupted, this whole game is basically just a dark themed fest of assholes.

[@ВладиславШаклеин-ч7м]

How warmonger *Meredith* is. Also... "If you can't tell me another way, do not brand me a tyrant." For all her paranoia, lyrium-induced or no, she is right here, however mages refuse to acknowledge that.

[@HalfTangible]

@Sinochu How many mages do we encounter in Kirkwall that AREN'T blood mages? Hell one of them is IN OUR PARTY

[@biostar4]

All this talk about whether Anders was right or not, templars or mages. And I can't help but symphatise with Varric saying he had enough of this issue

[@MandalorianRevan]

And Anders got what he achieved no matter what ending of Inquisition you achieved.

[@AbdulRafay-vl5rs]

All i can hear is "A new hand touches the beacon"

[@sagivalia5041]

OH MY GOD. I was beating my head against a wall trying to identify her voice. Meridia!

[@SrChr778]

The one event that changed everything. Although, no one mentions how Anders how possessed by the Spirit of Justice. The one detail in history that remains obscured.

[@vermilion6966]

It didnt change anything. Dont get me wrong here, it would be absolutely stellar if it did but alas it was conclave.

[@Taoscuro3003]

This happens in the expansion of DA:O, Awakening :)

[@XXXKaruXXX]

That is a dlc from Origins, actually you can kill Anders/Justice in that dlc but this games retcons that anyway

[@ВладиславШаклеин-ч7м]

@@vermilion6966 Wasn't that one either, the actual rebellion started with the possibility of reversing Tranquility becoming public knowledge.

[@briannong9363]

It doesnt change anything what Anders does cuz he and Justice are one now and it doesnt matter if Anders or Justic decides to do it.

[@Tanzenergise]

so 1 mage blows up the chantry and the entire templar order try to execute every mage in a circle. sigh this is why fucking hate templars

[@nekohallowking4762]

Tanzenergise to be fair they was just looking for a reason especially they crazy cow of a knight commander

[@MrWongWey]

I sided with mages on every dragon age game I’ve played. Origins: mages of the tower, Hawke: always Mages and I spared Anders, Inquisition: fucking mages. Because while in the inquisition Fiona may be absolutely dumb, the blatant mistreatment of mages and even tranquil that I read and heard in the game was disgusting. Templar’s are supposed to be the higher authority, Seekers higher than that, but countless of times they are both corrupt.

[@addisonwelsh]

@@MrWongWey Yes, just ignore all the blood mages that we meet who run around causing havoc. Templar haters are hypocrites who always ignore the crimes of the poor oppressed mages while putting the Templars on full blast.

[@azureheart2846]

@@addisonwelsh yes. Ignore the innocent mages who are taught to fear and hate their existence and live in a world that wants them all gone. Support the Templars who are meant to protect them but instead cage, rape and abuse them and gets away with it because they can just call Blood mage and nobody will do anything. Ignore the fact that they break the laws that they’re supposed to uphold. Forget that the Blood mages are the ones they’re supposed to go against, _NOT_ the innocent.

[@TheOneBeing1345]

@@azureheart2846 haha fuck the mages a I always enjoy watching them suffer I kill every mage I see and make them suffer

[@stevewalton7897]

Maker noooooo

[@catrionapritchard4679]

...ok, I am side-eyeing Fenris, Varric and Aveline so hard right now. Yeah, I know Fenris has a lot of mage-related trauma, but...we're talking about averting a mass murder of everyone in a building we know has small children in it (Emile was taken to be an apprentice at five and, while that was mentioned to be young, it was not mentioned to be the youngest age at which they take kids). The other two have no excuse.

[@blacklite911]

I get him but thats why I never liked Fenris. Just because some mages do horrible things, doesn’t mean that all mages are bad. Aveline was my ride or die in my playthroughs. She showed some hesitation but in the end, she knows what’s up. Same deal with Varric. I don’t mind differences of opinion but i don’t tolerate prejudice. Plus, 2 handed swordsmen are such a bog to play with in my play style so its always a chore to have them tag along.

[@tite93]

@@blacklite911 Fernis came from the Tevinter Imperium, where all mages are pretty much as evil as can be. It's hard to shake off that kind of experience

[@austinjennsen9108]

To be fair, Varric is simply telling you that helping the mages will be far more dangerous. Which is true. And that danger won't end even if Hawke survives the Circle.

[@Zero-di3cf]

@AgirlnamedMichael can't you say the same for anders

[@admiralandrews4632]

Chantry: *exists* Anders: It's free real estate

[@hkleider]

God how I hate zoomer memespeak

[@DominantDodo]

This is the worst joke I have ever seen

[@maximusgennaro5342]

the worst part is he truly thought that was the only solution

[@jamesvivian2855]

With everything that’s revealed about the circles and the templars in inquisition, it really may have been. The templars were blatantly corrupt even then, the seekers of truth who were meant to watch the templars and stop corruption were corrupted to the very top themselves. Some circles were better than others but even the best were horrible places. The system had to be cleansed and the only ones with the power to do it (the seekers) were tainted themselves. The war was inevitable

[@killyourdarlings1305]

It was. With how oppressed mages were there's no way they never would've rebelled. Anders was just the first one to do it.

[@tomsparks2697]

@@jamesvivian2855 Honestly, it's pretty terrifying that real people think that blowing up innocent Andrastrians and plunging Thedas into a war that would lead to the death of thousands of innocent mages is "the only solution". It is just as terrifying as Meredith ordering the slaughter of the Kirkwall Circle, or the Warden butchering a tribe of Dalish because of the misguided actions of the tribe's keeper Zathrian.

[@vitorhenrique5229]

@@tomsparks2697 What other solution would you propose? The possible Divines in Inquisition just consider the possibility of giving the mages freedom and treating them like people because of the Mage Templar War.

[@tomsparks2697]

@@vitorhenrique5229 Is unruly, unfocused war the only solution? Divine Justinia, the Divine before Divine Victoria, was trying to discreetly improve the situation of the mages. It was just at a slower pace than Anders wanted. Chantry tradition certainly made changes slow. Diplomacy is slow, boring, and unsatisfactory. But war brutalizes everyone and should be avoided at all costs. The war that Anders wanted ended up being a chaotic mess that almost ended in disaster for the mages. You forget that the war very well could have made things far WORSE. This mage war was "proof" that mages are dangerous and not to be trusted. The new Divine could have easily been a Meredith level hard ass. Thankfully, Anders got lucky considering that all three Divine candidates are exceptional (except unhardened/un inspired Leliana).

[@chriskoloski32]

We all had to know this was coming the moment Anders admitted that Justice turned into a Rage demon because of how spirits change

[@MandalorianRevan]

Vengeance Demon. Also, the Chantry/Circle oversimplifies the natures of spirits and demons into good/bad. In truth, Justice is a harsh virtue. It's nature hadn't really changed, it was just more fueled by rage rather than righteousness.

[@joshuagross3151]

​@@MandalorianRevan That and it was biased.

[@16Vagabond]

Replaying this game a 2nd time, it really does seem Kirkwall is infested with blood mages and abominations. No wonder Meredith grew paranoid.

[@magicrainbowkitties1023]

Although it's stated several times that a lot of these people became such because of the abuse they suffered at the hands of the Templars and felt like they had no choice. After all, if your very existence is criminal, why not go all the way?

[@MandalorianRevan]

There's also the mitigating factor that Kirkwall is an Eldritch location. It was the center of the Slave Trade (Kirkwall is called the White City of Chains for a reason) when the Tevinter Imperium controlled all of Thedas. A great many blood sacrifices were performed using said slaves during that time so The Veil is particularly weak and those sensitive to that sort of thing (i.e. mages, templars on Red Lyrium) are more prone to following their darker impulses due to demonic influence.

[@the_dropbear4392]

And most of those turned to blood magic because of what meredith was doing

[@durshurrikun150]

And that's because the system caused that. But of course you are victim blaming the victims of Apartheid.

[@Kpimpmaster]

I don’t understand why the Grand Cleric didn’t expel Meredith for abusing her power “regardless of what the Divine says” and put one of the captains in her place

[@bethkrager6529]

She was neglectful in her duties. Though I'm not sure Cullen, who is the only captain mentioned in the game and it's implied he is her second in command, was fit for command at the point Meredith was power grabbing. Doubts about her were sown by that point, so maybe he would have been fine.

[@Kpimpmaster]

@@bethkrager6529 what about Thrask the Templer captain who you met a lot in the first chapter

[@sagivalia5041]

@@Kpimpmaster There were no good alternatives, Cullen at that point could have been a second Meredith after his experience in the Fereldan circle and he makes those opinions quite clear. Thrask on the other extreme was complacent with blood mages as is evident by the quest where they kidnap the sibling and instead of simply killing at the spot the co-conspirator turned blood mage he goes "restrain yourself" like an idiot. Plus since they trapped the sibling with blood magic we can speculate whether Thrask witnessed it or not.

[@Kpimpmaster]

@@sagivalia5041 We both know Meredith would never just step down gracefully she’d probably accuse the Grand Cleric of “being corrupted by blood magic”

[@ugan2]

@@Kpimpmaster Not gonna lie that's why I also thought she took a neutral approach to everything. It kept a leash on Meredith somewhar. She picked Meredith then she no longer had a muzzle. She picked Osino, then Meredith would have gone to into conspirator mood and who knew how many templars would have sided with her (especially with them acknowledging the blood mage problem in Kirkwall). Agreed it only delayed the inevitable however.

[@Leonion6]

The look of your Hawke is gonna haunt me in nightmares.

[@amazingcynic9709]

"you might not win this fight its a hopeless cause" better a hopeless cause then an unjust and evil one

[@kyleway8513]

Sebastian's heartbroken shout when it all goes up always twisted my gut, that poor kid has been through enough

[@adner232]

I find it hilarious every time

[@fhrizo]

kid is right. Sebastian has the moral understanding of a child.

[@durshurrikun150]

@@fhrizo I mean, he's a sheltered prince, a literal manchild.

[@jackobwpierdemoller4698]

"Why didn't she listen to meeeee?" and then he starts praying like a good boi he is

[@datemasamune2904]

Templars should do a bharv to show they're sorry. XD

[@sarag4972]

Anders is kind of right that the mages needed to rebel, but he took the choice from them and condemned them to a certain death.

[@Cassimfan]

Looking back after Inquisition and things I start to wonder how much of this was Ander and how much of it was truly Justice/Vengeance swaying his actions. As the game progresses into each Act it seems like Justice grows stronger and exerts more and more control over Anders, even in the background. Heck, I'm in Act 3 and doing Legacy, and after a brief succumb to Corypheus that led to Justice taking control and fighting with us Anders seemed so.... scared. Justice starts to SCARE Anders as the years go by, but he's stuck with Justice. Even in Act 1 if you take Ander into the Fade he later says it's disturbing when Justice takes control. And Anders is just stuck with him. He doesn't know how to get rid of Justice, and it would likely require Justice being agreeable to leave Anders' body, which seems like that's not going to be something this warped spirit would be willing to do. Evidently if you are rivals with Anders Justice canonically became a demon and forced Anders to blow up the Chantry, but I don't see why Anders' relationship with Hawke would change Justice, being his own being with his own thoughts. My personal theory is regardless of friendship, rivalry, or romance with Ander Justice warped completely into Vengeance and forced Anders' hand, and him claiming to be truly one with Justice in the choice is an effort to protect himself until he either dies or can later confide the truth in Hawke and perhaps seek a way to be rid of Vengeance.

[@MandalorianRevan]

The flaw here is thinking of them as completely separate beings. If you played Dragon Age Origins - Awakening, you'd know that neither Anders nor Justice would have thought of doing this on their own. Anders' anger over mage treatment and Justice's need to fulfill his purpose drove them to that extreme. In hindsight, this was the inevitable outcome.

[@Johnny-ny3ko]

@@MandalorianRevan it's probably like a guy complains about injustice of over taxation, 99% of people won't do shit for various reasons unless possessed by a spirit whom mode is to fulfill justice

[@sun-ys2sw]

dont use justice as an excuse for Anders，justice is justice.And Anders，he choose to kill all those innocents by his own free will，or he is just an abomination who played harmless.

[@joshuagross3151]

​@@sun-ys2sw Abomination, definitely. You ever hear the term "Justice is blind?" This is why. As soon as he and Anders became one, Justice became corrupted, as it could only see one side, not the other.

[@durshurrikun150]

@@sun-ys2sw There were no innocent people in the chantry.

[@PimsriYotube]

oppress people, and they're bound to fight back. it's expected, if Ander didn't do it, someone will.

[@nekohallowking4762]

Bobby Derran just saying only cause solas is wise doesn’t make him right, mages are not evil by nature Solas is pretty damn biased in the situation anyway (though before you respond I haven’t gone though the dlc his in yet so please no spoilers XD) sides in my story a mage stoped the blight, became the champion and twice stopped a darkspawn blighted magister seeking godhood (I know that’s the players choice but I still think it’s funny how when a mage does all this and in game there still pretty dumb over how they act towards them)

[@nekohallowking4762]

Bobby Derran looking forward to that though I doubt it’ll make me think mages are evil, only cause individuals shouldn’t be judged on the whole, kinda like how Iron bull hates Vints but literally ends up bedding the son of a magister cause as he says it’s to much trouble hatting every single person (though I’ll definitely get right on finishing it cause otherwise I kinda sound like an ass who don’t know any better XD)

[@nekohallowking4762]

Bobby Derran well same could be said for templars though since even in origin if you start as a mage and talk to Cullen he mentions about his brothers in arms talking about killing mages rather proudly, and I don’t think we need to step into the hot mess they was the knight commander of Kirkwall. Though I think a compromise can be met at some point in the dragon age world a lot a lot of strife I just want all the people to have a chance Man I really get into this shit XD there are good and bad examples on both sides and I think that’s meagrely the point there so many times you see the worst of mages and the templars but there’s also so many good ones

[@knmfujiwara]

I don't like the Circle but let's not pretend that Ander is not a terrorist!

[@TheAzuregreen]

In inquisition you find out that anders blowing up the circle wasn't the reason the war started, it started because someone found out there's a cure to being tranquil

[@lloron6]

Anders was right that half measures were no longer an option. But he didn't take the right decision when he destroyed the chantry. He only took the easy way for him to accomplish his immediate objectives.

[@xenon8117]

I really wish he hadn’t turned around when confronting Orsino and continued building the tension, turning around he looks ashamed and while I think it suits Anders at that moment he seems more like Vengeance and shouldn’t be anything other than full-on war mode.

[@alexandrospapadopoulos4297]

I cant be the only one that thinks that Meredith, Orsino and Anders are all lunatics that deserve the axe lol... They just kept escalating and escalating for no reason.

[@thephantomoftheparadise5666]

I 100% agree with you.

[@thephantomoftheparadise5666]

I 100% agree with you

[@Willzb-xk4ew]

God damn it anders, i had things under control

[@rodricksage5963]

Anders really screwed the mages, Meredith was actually cracking, if the Chantry was not destroyed, the circle might have had a chance, but Orsino hid a lot, that damned them in the end, sure Meredith was mad, maybe the position was stressing her out, add in hysteria, but Kirkwall was a next of blood magic, even the templar who were in favor of the Mages, were betrayed, and what worse, the Seekers knew this, and they just stood there, this is there fault.

[@MandalorianRevan]

It was only a matter of time, given Meredith's deterioration, before she was going to call for the Right of Annulment and Kirkwall would have ended up like Dairsmund and the Chantry would have covered it up. Again. Anders' made sure the Chantry couldn't interfere and forced a confrontation with the Templars. It truly was the best solution.

[@addisonwelsh]

@@MandalorianRevan Yes, proving mages are the dangerous monsters everyone thinks they are and justifying their harsh treatment was definitely the best option.

[@cswizzle1890]

@@addisonwelsh How they are the monsters because last I check the Templars are the ones who are trying to kill every last mage even the children in the circle because of the action of one mage. Oh didn't the ”righteous” Templars abuse their authority over the circle and let not forget the circle was only made not to ”help”, but to capture/imprison mages. So yes that is going to happen if you treat a group of people like crap for thousands of years just because they born like that.

[@addisonwelsh]

@@cswizzle1890 I was talking about how Ander's actions made them look. Do you think the people who saw the Chantry blow up were thinking "oh, those poor oppressed mages" No, they were thinking "Oh Maker, Mages really are as bad as everyone says." And the fact that every damned mage in Kirkwall suddenly broke out blood magic and began summoning demons and becoming abominations didn't help. Also, the fact that the Kirkwall chantry had so many blood mages is rather damning. Blood magic isn't something you just do, you have to be taught how to do it, either by another mage or a demon. Oh, and let's not forget the part where Orsino was hiding blood mages from Meredith rather than turning them over like he was supposed to. The Kirkwall Mages are not innocent victims, plenty of them were doing stuff they weren't supposed to. Ander's blowing up the Chantry was, in Meredith's eyes, the final straw, and after seeing a church blow up, there's few who would disagree with her.

[@azureheart2846]

@@addisonwelsh thank you for expressing the exact problem with the citizens and Templars of the setting. Yes actually. Blood Magic is something someone can just do. In fact it’s very easy. Also you looked up the "Enigma of Kirkwall" you’d know that there is something unnatural and wrong with the city itself. The destruction of the Chantry wasn’t the final straw for her. It was the perfect excuse. She _wanted_ an excuse. Don’t believe me? Ask the writers/developers of the game.

[@DertekN]

Вот как надо делать злодеев и героев! Вот бы разрабы Андромеды посмотрели эту сцену... Все персонажи прописаны идеально, мотивы и принципы. У всех логичные доводы, и очень непросто выбрать сторону. Шедеврально. Лучшая часть из трех.

[@monstervoice8293]

Anders: "I removed the chance of compromise, cause there is no compromise!." Me: -_- ....the logic of Anders, everyone.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

he has a point; everyone treats mages like shit because they know full well that they can get away with it due to the logic of most ppl in Thedas is #allmagesrevil

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

@Bobby Derran so that means its perfectly justifiable to lock them all up in prisons and turn a blind eye when templars decide they wanna rape some of the mages and get away with it?

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

@Bobby Derran "Rape never happened in the circles" two words; Ser Alrik. Saying templars and mages are freinds is idiotic. Templars have freedom, mages are hold up in prison for the rest of their life. And dont even get me started on the Kirkwall Circle.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

@Bobby Derran except templars can come and go as they please, mages cant. "the reason Mages are dangerous because they are so corruptable." thats because of how they're treated. Mages arent treated as ppl. "Ser Aldric was in dragon age 2 he was a sadist(not rapist) who forced Mages into the arms of demons" go watch the scene with him threatening that woman, sounds rapey as fuck.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

@Bobby Derran he was a child. Children always do stupid things. If Circles were ever to be restored then they should act like schools, NOT prison's. Mages go there to learn how to control their power but they do NOT get imprisoned there. Things like that are why blood mages exist. The easiest way I can think would b like the College of Magi in Skyrim.

[@Stotic_Reader]

The Templars were corrupt and extremely oppressive towards the mages. Yes, Anders actions were wrong but they revealed the true nature of Meredith and the Templars who followed her. Anders was the only mage who destroyed the Chantry but Meredith, and the other Templars, brushed that point aside and decided to exterminate all the mages in Kirkwall. From Anders perspective, the Templars only offered a form of salvation to the mages that matched their beliefs and practices rather than based upon kindness and mercy. In my opinion, this really proves what Anders meant by there was no true compromise that existed before he blew up the Chantry because the Templars and the Chantry had no plans to extend an olive brach to the Circle of Magi.

[@ValerioRhys]

Both sides are at fault, as First Enchanter, Orsino was supposed to root out blood magic and make sure the Circle remained stable. Kirkwall is infested with blood mages, and he was too afraid that Meredith will overreact so he chose to hush and cover up the blood magic that has been happening (which directly resulted in the death of Hawke's mother and so many others.) While I agree that mages deserve to be treated the same way as anyone else, they also need to understand that with great power comes great responsibility and a burden to uphold them. Both sides failed in their duties. The templars and Meredith failed in protecting and maintaining the dignity and rights that encompass all of the Maker's children, and that includes the mages and instead ushered in a campaign of fear, intimidation and abuse. The mages and Orsino have failed to upkeep their obligation to root out and report blood magic, and while not all blood mages are evil, even a single one is enough to cause corruption and countless deaths.

[@alejandroevl5890]

​@@ValerioRhysbulshit . Mages and blood magic are not evil , look minrathues

[@80hdbb]

"I don't... want to... get involved... in this. 🥴"

[@andrews.5212]

The right of annulment is like dropping a nuclear bomb on a city to stop gangs war..yes you removed the problem. But how many innocent did you killed? Also my Hawke's sister was in the circle: that's an hard no no on helping a genocide.

[@MandalorianRevan]

The Right of Annulment is last resort and has a long process to go through before it can proceed, as we saw in Dragon Age Origins. What Meredith did here was go against Chantry doctrine. Sadly, she isn't even the first Knight-Commander to do this. Anders merely made sure the Chantry couldn't cover it up this time.

[@addisonwelsh]

@@MandalorianRevan No. no he didn’t. Meredith called for the right of annulment after a magical terrorist attack. In this case, skipping the usual legal process was entirely justified.

[@NM-gv3mu]

@@addisonwelsh "technically legal" doesnt mean justified. If grand cleric elthina granted meredith asking for the right of annulment between act 2 and 3, that would also be "technically legal" but it wouldnt be justified.

[@addisonwelsh]

@@NM-gv3mu The person who was supposed to authorize the Rite was murdered by the very thing the Rite was meant to defend against. If that isn’t justification, I don’t know what is

[@NM-gv3mu]

@@addisonwelsh i dont find genocide ever justified. Also, an unrelated apostate justifies genociding the circle? Yeah, no.

[@plaguedoctor2882]

Why not destroy a place filled with templars?, why do it with our world equivalent of a church full of innocent people? And how many other people died because the whole place blew up? How many mages were taken as also guilty of this and were hunted down? Is it more symbolic this way or something? It’s messed up if so

[@Hjalmar_an_Craite]

Oh come on, how many innocents were in that chantry? From the game it shows that not that many. There were some sisters, Elthina and templars. And what other place could he blow up? The circle? Chantry deserved that.

[@alnotbiggaytho7124]

By killing the grand cleric it's only Meredith and the Templars vs the mages. Meredith would declare war and he would get the uprising he wanted

[@Twilightingale21]

@@Hjalmar_an_Craite Ok, what about the rest of the city, though? The people in the immediate area around the chantry that would absolutely be killed in the blast, or the people everywhere else that then have to dodge huge chunks or rubble raining from the sky. I really doubt that explosion managed to just selectively kill everyone affiliated with the chantry and leave all the "innocents" alone. I put innocents in quotations because I guarantee you that most of the sisters killed were also innocent. Plenty of people are handed over as children, or without their say. Being part of the chantry doesn't automatically make these people somehow less innocent.

[@vermilion6966]

And WHAT is that place? Its the gallows you genius. They dont leave the gallows unless on sanctioned work leave. They eitherleave in the circle itself or barracks nearby. Also who would give a sh*t besides meredith if those templars were killed anyway? No one. Theyd just annuled the circle and went on their marry way. No one would have cared. Also yes Chantry is a symbol. By striking the symbol of faith you denounce it. F*cking chantry isnt "a church", its closest equivalent is a real life Inquisition (not thedas inquisition) or a christian church of the times of Crusades in medievil period - you know a lovely time where they hunted down everyone who opposed them and tried to maim and kill and control. Thats why templars exist. Its literally an army. So the only thing its full of is 1 templars 2 useless shits like elthina and two-faced clerics like petrice.

[@rannenw6207]

@valsk The elves are just as bad as the other races of thedas. In Jaws of Harkon we learn the Elves did nothing to help in the second blight even having word spread of them just watching a town be destroyed by darkspawn. They then instigated the Red crossing massacre by killing an emerald knights human lover when she came to greet them and the humans then killed the knight thinking he did it. They were then winning the war against Orlais but lost when their Commander was killed and then lost the land given to them. While it wasn't elves that started the blight but Tiventor Mages and mages being the most likely people to be possessed by a demon and as we see here if a mage is possessed. Anders removed the only option of peace which is completely idiotioc this war killed more people who had nothing to do with the conflict than those who have an interest. We can also look amd Tiventor a nation we have seen nothing good come out of were mages rule, and the Chantry is not an Inquisition but a parallel to the Catholic Church.

[@electric_eclectic]

Meredith is the voice of Meridia in Skyrim?

[@Demothios]

You're right. Jean Gilpin is the voice actor's name for both characters. Been playing both games for so many years, and I never noticed the similarity before googling it just now. xD

[@izzyjevsk804]

i always thought they sounded familiar and it seems i was right 🤝

[@AmonTheWitch]

i simp for this man

[@ayuwokiy]

I always tought that Justice were being in control of Corypheus and Anders had died after Legacy DLC, it makes sense with every event to the chantry explosion and the Justinia death

[@soul741xD]

I'm with Anders in this one tbh, I just got mad at him because he lied to us and tried to make us accomplices without telling his plan first

[@vermilion6966]

He gave you the reason why. If you a rival or just dont agree, you'd stop him, if you agree you'd help and would be blamed and hunted for it.

[@xenon8117]

I'm with him as well but I do wish there was a way to earn his trust enough to be in on the plan.

[@vitcher9386]

Yes, he had some rights, but destroying chantry, and killing grand cleric, was bad choice.

[@elsinernixan7539]

@@vitcher9386 You see, I've thought about this and all. But your right. The cleric and chantry were not at fault as people. The difference is, they where Never, an equal footing for mages. As an organisation as a whole, regardless of the grand cleric there was a weak chain by virtue of might. The templars, they proved it by might, and the grand cleric even says she cannot hold sway over merdeiths choices, regardless of her slow descent. That's "the peace" Anders destroyed. The chantry was the very representative that people had forgotten humilty which is ironic as they served the middle ground. Mages where ignored and then we they could be taken seriously, thedas suffered because nobody could get off their high horse and see before the drastic actions here that things where wrong.

[@vitcher9386]

@@elsinernixan7539 its easy to talk about taking "drastic actions" when it's not yours life to sacrifice. The Chantry maybe were weak, Grand cleric maybe was weak, but it doesn't mean they were lambs to slaugther "for greater good".

[@donovan9456]

So instead of protecting mages, instead of trying to obtain a better future, he'd doom innocents, CHILDREN around the world to die because of his actions? He might want to fight, but others do not. That is not a choice he can make for them. It was at this point I knew I could never forgive Anders.

[@xmilkteax]

I'm pro-mage 100% but this is exactly why I've hated Anders' actions. I don't get how anyone can think this was ever a breakthrough for mages.

[@fenicotteropurple1762]

Justice was the problem, he infected the brain of anders, convincing him that the war was necessary to save the mages and free them

[@monstervoice8293]

Trenta Sei Not really, remember that justice was a pure spirit, born from the essence of justice and acording to Solas spirits like justice can be turned from their innitial purpose and get corrupted into demons. Anders was the one corrupting justice since his own soul/heart/mind was too biased and when Anders let Justice become a part of him Justice stopped being a spirit of justice and instead became a sort of spirit/demon of vengeance. *So in reality it's a demon of vengeance impersonating Justice.*

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

the Chantry are tyrannical murderous assholes, they've had this coming for a long time

[@nekohallowking4762]

Donovan94 don’t blame you there but to be fair this was gonna happen one way to another what with the Templars abusing there position and power and the mages feeling like they need to go to bigger extremes, Anders was just the straw that broke the camels back after all the other circles rebelled to outside the freematches (Sorry got a bit long winded there XD not condoning his actions at all but it lead to good things at least)

[@TerrificGiggles]

I'm remembering how much this fucked me up. I was romancing Anders, and i had no option but kill him. I got his point, but he deserved it. THIS stained my judgement so much.

[@alexanderthered5603]

Just by this scene alone, they kind of made it easy to side with the mages here...

[@UnPokemon]

Well, yes and no, since there are indeed quite a bunch of blood mages, including Orsino himself. At this point, a third option like "you are all terrible, so i'm gonna stop all of you" would kind of make sense.

[@alexanderthered5603]

@@UnPokemon Thing is I just can't blame a whole group of people for what a few do, especially a group imprisoned and ostracized simply for something they were born with and had no control over being. But with the templars... no one is born a templar, they chose it. And if a tyrants decide to lead the templars to destroying all the mages, they choose to follow that tyrant. So yeah, it made it incredibly easy from my perspective to side with the mages.

[@amazingcynic9709]

@@UnPokemon idc blood magic isn't really wrong its just a tool to be used

[@UnPokemon]

@@amazingcynic9709 For the player, yes. But with a few exceptions, Blood Mages tend to go a little crazy and become twisted or evil.

[@bloodfiredrake7259]

it was so satisfying slaughtering Templars in both DA2 and DAI.

[@durshurrikun150]

Agreed

[@uzytnik]

Haha, i love it. My favorite romance is still Anders. It was fucking hilarious when he came there and I heard a big boom, I fell from my chair. Oh, my lovely rebel mage boyfriend. BTW it's funny she wants to slain the circle, but it was Anders who did it and he's an apostate. I love that game.

[@epileptictrees5213]

In the other Dragon Age games sometimes the Templars come off reasonable but here they're straight deranged, despite the game trying to show you how the Mages are no saints either. Meredith takes thinnest pretext possible to carry out mass murder after years of refusing to let Kirkwall have her own ruler. I don't see anyone could think Meredith was justified here.

[@carlosmachado5532]

"The circle does more harm than good."... *~10s later sides with the mages to kill the templars*

[@vitcher9386]

well, he meant circle, not only mages. Circle is mages UNDER custody of templars.

[@Haszry]

the circle is created to control the mages... so that's the right choice tbh

[@Laerei]

After the shit he pulled, I wanted Anders dead as soon as possible. Right or wrong about destroying the Circle, blowing up the chantry and causing untold amounts of deaths of the innocent, he became unforgivable.

[@TheSkyrimInquisitor]

Okay I'm not gonna lie, I freaking cheered when Anders did this

[@donovan9456]

Why?

[@TheSkyrimInquisitor]

The Grand Cleric was a wimp, she let Merredith's madness run far. If Bethany is alive and isn't a Warden, I would fear for her life there. One wrong move and she would become a tranquil, and I doubt the old lady would make any changes even if the whole circle is tranquil. Not the best choice for Anders, gotta say, but hey + I really dislike the Chantry, never liked Andrastianism in any of my DA games

[@donovan9456]

Whilst I agree that she could've done more, I think the Grand Cleric's strength was her ability to be diplomatically immune. She held both Orsino and Meredith in check for some time. It was only after Meredith took charge in the absence of a Viscount that she superseded Elthina's ability to control. She tried to keep the peace for the sake of the common people. For example, during tensions with the Qunari, Elthina outright condemns her own Chantry priest because said priest had tried to start a holy war and bring the citizens of Kirkwall into the crossfire. Elthina, in the eyes of the Chantry, should have pursued the Chantry's best interests at all costs. Instead, she used her power to protect others. When Anders blew up the Chantry he condemned countless innocent people to die. Just because he wanted to fight, he thought every mage should fight. Children, elderly, and mages who actually liked the Circle (Wynne and Vivenne as examples) were then put up to the slaughter because of him. Yes, the Chantry is hypocritical and often times tyrannical. It is something I as well undermine in all my DA playthroughs. However, no matter how bad the Chantry gets, I don't believe that makes Anders' decision to start the Mage-Templar War justifiable. In any respect. Here, he is a terrorist. Plain and simple.

[@TheSkyrimInquisitor]

I know what she's been trying to do, but as you said even Meredith saw her as weak. She could have informed Justinia of the situation, or at least sooner since Leliana was present in the game. Justinia being pro-magic would have found a solution for the mess. There were plenty of mages who don't like the Kirkwall circle, and that is clear as day through out DA2. Meredith could have killed him alone, since he bluntly said he was the one behind it, even Orosino was against him. As for Wynne and Vivienne, they are from different circles which are kinder to their mages. Kirkwall was the worst, even the one Cole was from was bad. Call him whatever you want, but there wouldn't have been a Mage-Templar war if mages weren't locked in Andrastan countries. Tevinter and Riviani worked perfectly well with free mages

[@alicaradec8545]

SkyrimPrincess So did I XD hell yeah! Freedooooooom!

[@thestormofwar]

Am I the only one who shanks Anders every time?

[@guillermochaconpoveda7085]

To this day I'm still in awe about how brilliant Dragon Age is from a narrative POV. The mage opression can very well be compared to our own world's racial or queer opression.

[@JustAnotherEvangelionFan]

Racial or queer oppression? They are also walking nuclear bombs just like mages?

[@guillermochaconpoveda7085]

@@JustAnotherEvangelionFan no but we are also considered threats to society based on fearmongering and are therefore deprived of the same rights that "normal" people cherish.

[@iamthereddemon20]

Isabela you got yourself into worse with the qunari

[@goliathsaber2455]

Dragon age 2 is not my top favorite but i do like the things they put in like the civil war of the templars that are afraid or don’t understand magic and mages that are confused and sometimes consumed by blood magic or demons so i see the reason why normal people are scared of magic because of the two big fears of the mages turning into abominations of demons or using blood magic and the templars even though they care about protecting people they are sometimes get blinded by there law and fears and the lyrim they use is like a very deadly drug to them so nether is good or evil is the people that use there powers and that what makes dragon age 2 so interesting

[@TheGooseGroup]

This video is sticking with me like hawke and Verrics friendship

[@alejandroevl5890]

The seekers was corrupt, the templar and the chantry, this was necessary to stop that madness

[@shamrock141]

It really wasn't, if Anders wanted the mages to be free he should of orchestrated an escape from the gallows, not kill a bunch of innocent priests and orphans

[@alejandroevl5890]

​@@shamrock141: and being Hunt like animals ?

[@rivianslayer2199]

Anders is realy feeling it!

[@siobhanhenry9094]

I agree with Anders. The templars and the chantry could have made life easier years and years ago. They knew about the r@pe and abuse of mages in circles and that a mage dies if they fail their harrowing or ever try to leave. It is fear based obedience and it was bound to fail. It deserves to fail. When people do nothing to end a systematic suffering they need to be made to listen one way or another. Rivain has proven that procession and improper use of blood magic are not a real statistical issue when you don't push people to the edge. They chantry are murdering millions for a problem they created.

[@shamrock141]

Agreeing on principle doesn't mean you have to agree with method. Anders' murder of everyone in the Chantry is abhorrent, the grand cleric was the only one keeping peace in Kirkwall, he then sparked a war that killed countless more. Of all the ways to rebel, this was surely one of the worst

[@disarraygay]

⁠​⁠@@shamrock141 elthina happily stood by while meredith killed mages, made them tranquil, let her templars rape them, and sent literal death squads after people who helped their mage family members. it was her job to keep the templars in check and she didn’t, she did absolutely no peace-keeping also the war actually started bc of the stuff do with the cure to tranquility and mages declaring independence from the chantry, not what happened in kirkwall

[@durshurrikun150]

@@shamrock141 No, it is not, he killed evil people.

[@shamrock141]

@@disarraygay when did she happily stand by? She openly opposed Meredith's outrage in the opening scene of Act 3 and was denying the requests of radicals to use the tranquil solution. She never abandoned the Chantry even when she was offered safe passage and didn't let the machinations of her subordinate go unpunished At the end of the day though she can't control Meredith, it's well known that Kirkwall was under Templar dominion, that's why Anders assassinated her, he himself said he was removing the last chance of compromise, Elthina was that last chance of peace that kept Meredith from using the right of annulment And yes the war started because of Anders, he was the last straw and managed to completely screw everyone by condemning the mages to death so that they would be forced to join his revolution

[@shamrock141]

@@durshurrikun150 killing a bunch of priests and orphaned children, yeah real evil...

[@jasonmorris9330]

This should've been called Dragon Age: Kirkwall or Free Marches, while they worked on a real Dragon Age 2. Inquisition was a right step though

[@dubbzy92]

In hindsight, the Grand Cleric didn't do squat

[@talosseptim592]

Anders was right change my mind mages needed a symbol to fight for there freedom they needed to revel it’s what you call a Soace rebellion of course the people who aren’t slaves see it as crazy and chaos but if you were a slave you would see it as a just and right thing to do

[@shamrock141]

Anders was wrong, corrupted by vengeance. His attack only further criminalised mages everywhere. If he wanted them to be free he should of lead an escape attempt from the gallows, or sought to destroy their phylacteries, instead he assassinated a bunch of innocent priests and orphans so that nobody could stop the bloodshed to come

[@snappycenter7863]

For all that the Circle is abusive, Anders blowing up the Chantry and Orsinio being a blood mage proved Meredith had a valid point.

[@stezanghi9013]

What a cool avatar

[@jcksparrowfan]

Meh, don't care, Kirkwall sucks. I needed a reason to leave, thank you, Anders. Now we can run to a beach in Rivain and retire.

[@varric]

Honestly, I will burn the entire city to the ground and purify the remains with holy water. That damm city is cursed.

[@azureheart2846]

Sounds like a plan.

[@Frostyflakes-xd8jh]

Godamn templars this is why in inquisition I will not hesitate to kill a million Templar fuckers, mages are actually nice people who just have their own beliefs yet some shitty “knights of honor” want to fuck it up.

[@Bihexual]

Fenris nooooooooooooo

[@zuziiice8907]

On my end fenris helped me kick templar butt. Though that is cuz i was pretty high in friendship with him.. also he was main tank when it came to mage battle.

[@sarag4972]

It's been so many years since I played this but I still remember the satisfaction of stabbing Anders in the back, he had been annoying me all game and then he pulls this bullshit. Still, I believe I would make different choices id I played it now, many years have passed and I would hope that meant I have evolved in a way or another, so I wouldn't make the same choices.

[@michelleuhlinlilja]

thank the Maker Sebastian wasn't in this. xD

[@babarrett1]

My character romanced anders, and… he had to kill his love for this crime. Another death of a loved one for him. That got me, it did. His life of unending tragedy.

[@Loregasmo]

I believe in the Circle and the Templar cause but condemning the entirety of Kirkwall to death is evil.

[@Redhitcz]

Mages, tempars and common people are all victims of the demons and compulsion. Demons laughing when th two sides fight between themself. Anders make clear mistakes, because he target only other victims of the harsh world they live in...

[@matro2]

This is why I recruited the Templars in Inquisition despite being a mage myself. By striking the heart of humanity's faith the mage rebels became inconsolable enemies.

[@chrishamilton7516]

On one hand, Meredith is being a jerk. On the other hand, she was actually right. I’d rather have a few dead mages over an entire chantry exploded. Magic is too dangerous to be allowed to exist.

[@SpadeDraco]

Yeah I hate that the series completely lost the plot on this. Origins established quite definitively that giving mages unsupervised reign results in things like the Tevinter Imperium, The Darkspawn Plague, and catastrophic demon outbreaks. It was a really interesting exploration of how the existence of magic users would realistically affect life and society in a fantasy setting. But as the series went on they just became a generic "oppressed minority" allegory.

[@durshurrikun150]

Fascist talking points. Are you a KKK member? Why don't you follow your Fuhrer to hell and rid the world of your existence?

[@joedatius]

with that logic should all gun owners be executed because guns are too dangerous? Meredith isn't being a "jerk" she's trying to indiscriminately kill people on a perceived level of danger while ignoring all the mages who are in no way a threat to anyone. like she's just going to ignore all the mages that use healing magic to help people?

[@matro2]

It only takes a few to spoil a harvest. A few innocents don't absolve the danger the whole group poses.

[@thatguyyouknow3931]

It's crazy the idol was solas's the whole time

[@Dekarowski25]

How did he do it? I mean that some powerfull explosion.

[@PimsriYotube]

gaatlok or whatever the thing the qunari have? plus magic?

[@brunocavka709]

CaptainDashund you have a quest where you must stall grand cleric while he sets some kind of a bomb..but you dont know what is he doing until this scene

[@marcoboscarol2420]

Do you believe in magic & rituals? no need to use the gaatlok when you can command supernatural/natural forces with your mind&will XD

[@johnmclellan2257]

Suitcase nuke

[@ahmedxein1057]

Isabella 😂

[@dabbingtoast7743]

Yeah the Mage and Templar arrangement is necessary, but holy shit do characters like Kerras and Meredith make you just instantly hate the order. Great series, really enjoying playing all three games right now.

[@maximusgennaro5342]

people keep forgetting that Anders killed part of Sebastian's "found" family when he blew up the chantry

[@elizabethk4275]

game of thrones copied dragon age change my mind

[@addisonwelsh]

Game of Thrones is older than dragon age. The books started back in 96

[@Billsamaman]

I'm not going to lie. 90% of Dragon Age 2 is hot garbage, but the climax was really good. It's such a shame that it was shrouded by this Chore simulator.. 😔

[@christodanh1250]

I like your Avatar

[@francisk5337]

Your avatar is cool as fuck

[@DominantDodo]

It looks disgusting

[@xeinrayar6932]

Isabella xD

[@js1031]

This scene right here shows Meridith isn't a bad person. She's not doing this for her own power, she's doing it because "Someone else might get it wrong". Don't get me wrong, there are several ways she could have handled things better (Red Lyrium says hello), but to cast her as this cackling villain is a oversimplification, if not entirely false. I don't hate Meridith, I feel sorry for her. Because her position forced her into a no-win situation.

[@gimmethegepgun]

Nothing in her position forced her to invoke the Right of Annulment. Execute the person who just openly admitted to the attack? Sure. Execute the entire Circle for the crime of that one mage? No.

[@Forevermoonlighte]

Yeah the point of Meredith invoking the right of annulment is because Anders showed just how powerful a mage can be by destroying the Chantry. It only affirmed their suspicions of mages and she decided she couldnt risk a single one being able to strike again. He really screwed it up

[@DominantDodo]

@@dazedowl that is insanely stupid this can apply to the entire world, your argument is idiotic

[@azureheart2846]

@@Forevermoonlighte she was asking to use the Right of Annulment _before_ Anders blew up the Chantry, the only good thing that Grand Cleric Elthina did in this game was insuring that Meredith couldn’t do it. What Anders did was a calculated move. Either Meredith proves that she’ll condemn numerous innocent mages for the actions of one unrelated Apostate Mage, proving that the Mages need to stand up for themselves, or she’ll kill him and only him for his crimes. Unfortunately Anders was right. Meredith _wanted_ to kill all the mages, innocent or not.

[@azureheart2846]

@@dazedowl and Meredith proved Anders point, a single Templar will gladly kill an innocent mages if given an excuse.

[@muchahonra2b]

Sorry, am I supposed to condemn Anders for this? He did what had to be done

[@MandalorianRevan]

Just because he was justified, doesn't mean this wasn't a monstrous action. It just so happens this atrocity prevented worse ones. Caused a couple of others, true, but this was still ultimately a good thing.

[@muchahonra2b]

@@MandalorianRevan that's my point. He killed innocent people, sure, but at the end of the day nobody gave a damm about mages. Desperate situations call for desperate measures

[@shamrock141]

@@muchahonra2b the grand cleric was the only one keeping peace in Kirkwall. How many innocents died because of Anders, he killed the greatest leader in the city and allowed for a bloody revolution that killed who knows many citizens

[@azureheart2846]

@@muchahonra2b I think something that others don’t notice is that Anders is 100% aware that he knows what he did was unforgivable. He’s a devoted Andrastien (think I spelled it right), and he believes in Justice. He had a complete breakdown when he (potentially) killed an innocent girl in Act 2. He wanted to be punished for his actions, because he knows that what he did was wrong. But he _had_ to do it. Because nobody else will.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

one of the few good moments of DA2, the Chantry are a bunch of tyrannical murderous assholes that deserve to be wiped off the face of Thedas

[@evelynjolly9375]

Tbh both sides are pretty horrible. They both try to killed you in some way

[@Hunter-fs1nj]

Shame that Meredith was actually right :/

[@vardellsfolly5200]

Σhe was ultimately right, of course. Meredith. If mages could succumb to corruption, resulting in weapons of mass destruction, something that Anders just proved, then control, absolute control is of paramount importance.

[@alexandr8568]

Supporting mages, lol

[@fifthhoven]

Even when the graphics were so very basic, it's still baffling why they even created such very ugly elf models, which are used even in DA: Inquisition. (Solas, that ugly freak - made worse by some almost obligatory "armor" choices, part of the terrible stylistic tendencies.)

[@Kalenz1234]

If the gameplay wasn't so bad this game would be a pretty great sequel.

[@arlethialavellan4108]

Stabbing him in the back is so cowardly. *draws up a fireball into the palm of her hand*. Those Hawkes who killed him, step forward. *Revives Anders, and steps in front of him, casting fade shield and life ward around him for good measure*. Are you brave enough to face the Hero of Ferelden?

[@givensurname1296]

But blowing people up with hidden bombs is brave?

[@arlethialavellan4108]

The Exile blew up two planets, but she got a chance at redemption so did Revan. BioWare is full of characters that do horrible things even if they are good people. Is stealing a sacred book and started a war with the Qunari, brave?

[@arlethialavellan4108]

Besides that, Anders is family, no matter his wrongdoings my warden and my Hawke will protect and save him. Same for Carver and all the other companions.

[@givensurname1296]

No, it's not brave. But owning up to the consequences, no matter what they are, is. Of course, Isabela only does so IF she likes you. Aside from that, Isabela is generally honest about being greedy and selfish. Anders, on the other hand... If he's not making himself a victim, he's making himself a martyr. Everything is always somebody else's fault and only Anders knows best. Then again, if you DON'T coddle his butt all the time, he'll actually admit that he's not in control after all. And he'll be just as horrified by his actions as everyone else.

[@arlethialavellan4108]

Given Surname Again, other companions and pc characters like Revan have done way worse or just as bad. BioWare companions are always messed up in some way or another, I'm used to it and I like that they have issues. Diplomacy would be a surprise to see in BioWare's games, to be honest. Everyone should have a chance at redemption anyway, Anders was a good man once, he can be that man again if given the chance, and no don't try saying no to that, he healed people for free, that is not an act of a bad or selfish man. Blowing up a Chantry is pretty tame next to the things Revan, Malak and the Exile did during the Mandalorian wars, and they are tame compared to Darth Nilus. Anders is tame compared to Solas. Besides that, he does own up to the consequences and he tried for a peaceful solution, but all his attempts were ignored, read the books. The Chantry is evil anyhow so I was glad to see it get Reapered. It treats mages and different religions in the same way Christians treat LGBT and Pagans. Does that mean I don't think it was bad or that it killed innocent people? No, but I will not add more blood to the overflowing river. It is a far greater struggle to spare a life for too many people, I will not take the easy path. I'll play the game however I want and I will like whatever companions I want, which is almost all of them. I recognize their faults and strengths, the good and the bad, and love them more for those characteristics. Sebastian is bland and boring though, that's why I don't like him much.

[@federicomachado811]

Oh nice, a scene of Anders doing nothing wrong.