Dragon Ball Super Ruined Goku's Origin Story!

[@yurazah]

just incase it was unclear, what Im saying, is that when im talking about just the manga itself, and not super, I consider the special cannon, obviously super wouldn't consider it cannon

[@drybonesmunchakoopas5143]

Great video

[@Chriso22]

I'm glad someone made a video on this and pointed it because as much as I love the broly movie I did not like the dragon ball minus part when I watched the movie a second time.

[@insanemakaioshin]

@@yurazah thank god for that. The less credit *brain damage* receives for making someone a good person the better.

[@opshredderytp]

Upside: We know Gine is Goku's mother. Downside: EVERYTHING ELSE.

[@Chriso22]

I still think Gine's character dosen't make sense to the context of the orginal sayians backgroud but I agree everything else is alot more problematic to the story.

[@cyberdemon6517]

downside 2: we still dont know who VEGETA's mother is

[@opshredderytp]

@cyberdemon6517 real

[@Potent-potential]

Yeah I do not want goku as a Superman clone

[@0047sssss]

He never was a hero, that was a dub thing that Toriyama hated

[@Potent-potential]

@ toriyama was referring to goku being a super hero not a regular hero. No matter what toriyama says goku will always fit the general description of a hero even in the manga. A hero is someone who does good at anytime or someone who has noble qualities. If I were to describe goku as a hero he would be a flawed one at best.

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

how bardock beat gast was like "I can do it because I believe in myself" like bro what. What would be cooler if this was the fight where he figured out how to make a n artificial moon showing that despite being a low class saiyan, his ingenuity can let him be something different

[@albertomecanicaslocassergio]

He was a brilliant scientist after all

[@reginaldphiya6755]

He outsmarted gas instead of saying (i can do it)

[@rulerjayohenn3161]

I agree. Something that adds to the lore not takes something away.

[@Chriso22]

What's even worse is why he was fighting gas the orginal bardock would have never fought for Granola or his Mum somone littreally redraw that scene but with z bardock killing them to perfectly illustrate the difference.

[@Zero-xs3rc]

@@albertomecanicaslocassergio that was a error in translation

[@devilshooter126m8]

Only thing I like a bit better is Goku's Mom

[@PabloNeves26]

1:21 yeah, everyone knows that Bardock was a brilliant scientist who invented the ki moon!

[@natassiabrusewitz7371]

I think goku and Toryama are so connected that when he lost his db character development goku did to

[@ilhamarasy3671]

Interesting topics

[@sikosonix901]

Toriyama wrote that. He's the one that made this new origin story.

[@diddlenfiddle7311]

See I hate the implication that Gine is the reason why Goku is pure of heart, and not the people he grew up with

[@sikosonix901]

Why can't it be both? My interpretation is that he always had it in him, but his upbringing held solidify it into his character.

[@diddlenfiddle7311]

@sikosonix901 Because if Gine turned out like that on Vegeta, then Goku would too. So him being a saiyan that was raised on earth is irrelevant.

[@sikosonix901]

@@diddlenfiddle7311 didn't you read the reply, I said that it can be both. Let me be more specific. Gine's influence gave him more kind attributes, but his upbringing made him pure of heart.

[@diddlenfiddle7311]

@sikosonix901 I did read it and I disagree. It makes Goku far less unique compared to other saiyans. That's the issue

[@sikosonix901]

@diddlenfiddle7311 I see. I aint got anything else 5o say.

[@TheHomieToxic]

I agree with this. I think the father of Goku special was better than the Minus origin story. One small thing tho, is Vegeta hasn’t been retconned to be the same age as Goku. DBS Broly reaffirms Vegeta is 5 years older give or take.

[@gianvittoriomarti9393]

2:52 not at all! He just liked Bardock designs from " The Father of Goku" and put it in the manga! This is the only time we see something that explores Saiyans's past! All those things we believed about Saiyans, Bardock's special, Tuffles ecc.... are just from the Z Anime, or non canon OAV and Series (GT). Just because you don't know or you don't read the manga, doesn't mean that you can ignore what it is the canon material! Dragonball Minus was canon, so DBS Broly has no fault, It just represented the canon material (in a good way) since is a canon movie! Goku from DBZ had already origins similar to Superman, but the character himself is totally different! You know what's ironic? DBZ anime Goku (the one you all love the most) was the most similar to Superman, because he was the usual-corny american Superhero! You can choose your own headcanon, and what ruined your headcanon, but that doesn't mean that the REAL Canon is actually ruined!

[@mates1395]

btw gine was on still a warrior just bardock had to save her many times so she left or something like that so yea

[@toxicrepeter8607]

I respect you a ton for logically judging modern Toriyama instead of mindlessly praising him because "he's the guy behind dbz, how could he possibly write something bad".

[@DouglasGomesBueno-jw9lh]

Kid Goku almost kill Son Gohan in DB Minus he's not kind but changed after hit his head in a Rock.

[@bumblebeebowties]

okay so 1) saying the bardock special is canon because akira toriyama referenced it is a leap in logic. the only thing that's "canon" to the original manga is that bardock had a last stand against frieza. you can say that the bardock special is IMPLICITLY canon, but that's all it is, an implication. i will give you that bardock's outfit is slightly different, though! 2) saying that minus / broly turns saiyan women into generic wives is really reductive. you're drawing that conclusion from seeing a few saiyan women who aren't soldiers? you can say gine is a generic wife, sure, but generalizing all saiyan women like that is a logical leap. 3) raditz never saw baby goku, so his depiction in the manga is just raditz's speculation. when toriyama reveals what goku actually looked like when he was sent, that is not a retcon because we never *actually saw* baby goku, that is revealing new information that we didn't know before. there is a difference. is dragonball minus / broly's version of goku's backstory less compelling than that of the bardock special? i would say yes, it is less compelling, maybe even significantly less compelling. however, bardock's relative softness (because he still regularly participated in genocide) in comparison to other saiyans ends up servicing the greater plot when it's revealed that it caused him to make a wish on a pair of dragon balls that his sons would thrive---which is literally the only reason that goku and raditz just so happened to survive planet vegeta's destruction. so we at least got that positive out of it, even if special bardock's subversion of expectations (that goku's father was just another murderous killer) is more compelling.

[@dark-xh7fs]

Also his orginal look. Thats also canon.

[@Velocity_YT]

Took the words right put of my mouth

[@AarturoSc]

Yeah. This. I don’t like Dragon Ball Minus as much as Bardock’s Special, but the author’s word means more than his wishful thinking. Same for the comments about Saiyan women and how he was the one that jump to that generalization, not Toriyama implying that. At the end of the day it’s a really minor thing, since Bardock is a really minor character in the main series and Goku even forgets everything about his origin anyways.

[@metal42]

Daizenshuu confirmed the Bardock special was canon to the manga and anime before minus came out

[@bumblebeebowties]

@@metal42 daizenshuu < the manga

[@perturbedbatman2009]

Maybe it’s because I saw the anime first, but I always saw the Superman parallels so I didn’t mind the backstory being so similar.

[@SmellenBellen]

Yeah it’s kinda hard not to but I gotta admit they might of leaned a little too hard into it

[@djinnspalace2119]

the parallels were always there but when people compare it to superman, they mean more in the way characters act and have motivation. super and Z have the same story for goku, being sent away before vegeta gets destroyed, but its the motivation of the characters that makes it different. Z is more of a parody of superman while super is more of an homage

[@IcedicStar]

The only thing I honestly didn't like is how passive Gine's personality, she is basically how Goku acted in og DB even tho he got hit in the head and forgot all his prior memories. If she had a bit more of Bardock's ruthlessness then I'd actually like her

[@crestofhonor2349]

Gine has never really done much from what I recall. They've always focused on Bardock exclusively

[@eletrifygames7588]

I fully agree, great work keep it up 👍

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

i honestly think the bardock wish was so dumb. Gokus suppose to not be special. Just another low class warrior sent to destroy a planet. His own nature, and character is what let him to be what he is today. Not a stupid wish

[@LazUmar]

Ikr it ruins goku so badly and it honestly hurts his line "With enough practice even garbage can surpass the elite"

[@chromephone]

did you miss the part where vegeta said "So thats how you escaped the planet" the wish did not make goku stronger it just made him not die on vegeta, which makes more sense than the special where I always had questions if there were other saiyans alive becuase why are saiyan's still being sent out and why was goku the only one? It makes frieza seem slobby and lucky that most of the saiyans where on vegeta at that time than in dbs where he lined them up for a execution

[@miimiibeschde4818]

Well, the Same goes for raditz so let's say that the wish lasted until they died That still ruins the entirety of DB Classic

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

@@chromephone thats cuz he was. frieza is a tyrant who never worked hard for anything in his life. he just made a simple plan and expected everything to go his way. goku turned out lucky. and bardock was just a rutheless saiyan. He didnt care for his sons at all.

[@chromephone]

@@AhmedHussain-ju6xd I see what you mean about frieza being a tyrant who barely worked but if he didnt plan the EXTINCTION of the saiyan race means that frieza was not really afraid of the super saiyan making everything he did pointless and not a genuine fear for his power in the universe

[@PabloNeves26]

4:08 why bismirch and denigrate such a deep character full of nuaces and story arc? (I'm talking about Blue the velociraptor of course)

[@agerard6297]

To be sure, the “chosen one saved as a baby from destruction” harkens back to BCE.

[@S.pilgrim]

I completely agree with your criticisms of the changes Super made to Bardock and his back story. I found the whole thing less intriguing than the original narrative, and felt it detracted from Goku and how he was so unique for a Saiyan. Saying that, I disagree with your verdict on Toriyama and his mindset during the time he made this changes. There’s a lot of discourse online about his distaste for the show, wanting to end it after the Frieza arc and then the Cell arc, but this isn’t actually true. While I’m sure he was glad to be relieved of the pressure of writing such a massively popular series, when he came back with Battle of the Gods, in his own words it was because he couldn’t bear to not be involved in the series he loves so much. So while I don’t like the changes, I don’t think it was a case of disinterest, plus most importantly he didn’t write the Bardock special. I love the special, but I don’t think it particularly feels like something he would write, and it makes sense to me that in his rendition he would soften the character (even if I don’t like those changes). As for canon, I don’t think it particularly matters, especially when the canonicity in something like the Dragon Ball franchise is so convoluted anyway. Some would say Toriyama not being the one who wrote the Bardock special excludes it from being canon, but personally I prefer it to his later rendition so as far as I’m concerned when I think of Bardock it’ll be the original special Bardock that I think of.

[@S.pilgrim]

Forgot to say good vid! If I didn’t enjoy it I wouldn’t bother sharing both my agreements and disagreements

[@DiamondVR6534]

I heavily agree with ever opinion this man has

[@Hokage-kakashi]

I agree it felt like the biggest retcon. Especially after frizea brought him up in the anime and manga. They also aged him up which made no sense since when he came to earth it was stated he caame as a baby

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

Honestly it really didn't. I had a discussion with someone who had your opinions and kept calling Super bardock good when he isnt necessarily bad or good even if mostly bad at first.

[@yurazah]

super bardock isnt necessarily good, but hes alot better than the selfish monster that the og bardock was

[@Upstartfir]

I feel like there are some thing in the video that make no sense like saying that the broly movie is less cannon cuz of this like really and gine is said to be non average for a sayin woman

[@Upstartfir]

​@@yurazah also when did they say goku was 5 when planet vegeta was destroyed that's just not true

[@chromephone]

@Upstartfir goku was 3 when planet vegeta exploded and vegeta was 8 gine said goku was 3 and almost ready to leave the pod

[@Upstartfir]

@@chromephone yep so till a 5 year gap between goku and vegeta

[@Just-A-Bit]

7:00 finally, someone said it

[@chromephone]

I dont get how its generic are not many animes that have a similar style to the modern style

[@Just-A-Bit]

@@chromephoneI don’t think his new art style is generic. I just don’t think it’s as good

[@mihajlo6489]

I don't think the movie implies Goku and Vegeta are a similar age, Broly (who is very close to Vegeta in age) could have been sent away much before Goku was

[@AgnesBooth-zu7tw]

The movie does implies they have the same age they re all in the incubation chamber. In the filler vegeta was already walking and talking while Goku was in the nursery room.

[@mihajlo6489]

@AgnesBooth-zu7tw Goku is in an incubation pod at Bardock and Gine's house and that scene is completely separite from the room where Vegeta and Broly were. For all we know Goku could have been sent away far after the scene with Broly

[@crestofhonor2349]

Another point is that Goku is still 5 years younger than Vegeta although his body might be 7 years than that since he spent 7 years after the Cell saga dead

[@LowQualitySpamtonDeltarune]

2:20 BLT Dub will have a world with you

[@theallenbros0446]

Lowkey one of my favorite dragon ball KZbinrs 🤝 I should’ve subscribed earlier.

[@JJJawor]

The "DBZ: Bardock Special" movie is the only origin for Goku and Saiyajins that is cool and isn't an exact copy of Superman's story. Kakarott came from a brutal, egoistic and potentialy evil warrior race while somehow (hitting his head, memory lose) becoming not just good but the strongest of them. Not only that but he technicaly avenged his race but defeating Freezer - the Emperor and Killer of Worlds.

[@leannestewart7215]

Any thing that is stated/shown that contradicts something else that came before that is stated/shown the new more recent thing is the truly canon and the older thing is non-canon

[@julianwilliams9088]

Also Raddiz said planet Vegita was destroyed only a few years ago so not immediately after Goku was sent.

[@yurazah]

OH, really? I never noticed that

[@Chriso22]

There we go more inconsistency lol.

[@julianwilliams9088]

Yeah I just started rewatching it again and it’s the oceans dub so I’m not sure if that makes a difference.

[@Chriso22]

@julianwilliams9088 acutally there might be difference ocean dub has changed a thew things.

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@Chriso22 Ocean dub has changed a lot from the original japanese script

[@isaiahgiovanni]

"i dont even know why toriyama made dragon ball minus in the first place" "people should just enjoy the show as it is and not focus on whats canon" alr bro now im just confused, idk if im too stupid or ur too smart, most likely both

[@yurazah]

I coulda done the transition a little better, I said that cause theres a group of people who will dismiss anything you say in relation to something like the bardock special or gt, and just say "its not cannon" which is kinda a separate problem to the general idea that I think the super changes are bad

[@isaiahgiovanni]

@@yurazah oh alright i get it now

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

I prefer pretty much all of Super's version of the backstory except for Goku's backstory specifically.

[@toragon2736]

2:20 but he is a brilliant scientist >:[]

[@djinnspalace2119]

imo the movies, specials, and filler of Z have always been closer to Z because these people were paid to make them like Z, while toriyama was only held in check by his editor. i think his editor deserves more credit for shaping the Z era of dragonball. i think toriyama really needed someone to keep him in check and guide him. He always cared more about humor than storytelling, so having someone keep track of the story and see if it fits with their target audience was the only way Z couldve happened. truth is, it wasnt just one man that made Z the way it is, it was all the people working on it and balancing each other out. i really do believe it was lightning in a bottle.

[@ShockToYoSystem]

Bardock father of goku is still my cannon origin💯 I remember having the vcr movie tape💯 it also ties in with og dbz anime including the filler episodes that show flashbacks⚡️‼️

[@ShockToYoSystem]

All these retcons these days killed the franchise and many other shows and movies

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@ShockToYoSystem It wasn't a retcon as the special was never canon as it was filler just like the Trunks Special

[@hallo23779]

does it count to super though? the episode whilst a part of the super anime but db minus exists since 2014

[@robertwilson7259]

minus is canon to dragon ball super, it is not canon to dragon ball z. thus there are 2 alternate universe of the original z one that extends into gt, and one that extends into super, and the end of z is not canon to super. no matter how you try and change it the end of z is not compatible with super

[@HokutoShinkenSuccessor]

What made the original bardock special what that he wasn't special, he wasn't some good saiyan I personally think that toriyama was just a consultant for super and he would allow ahything just because he wants to left alone by the big heads who want to revive the story and make money from dragon ball

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

But Super Bardock isn't a good person either? Did you read the mini story?

[@HokutoShinkenSuccessor]

@pric3lessl0s3r5 I meant a good father, he didn't care about his son because of his low power level not like the super one, which make him different from the saiyans introduced early in the series just a barbarian race

[@ClarksonNo1]

@pric3lessl0s3r5 Don't argue with Dragonball fans, they don't read their own souce material

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

@HokutoShinkenSuccessor I get that. I'm not arguing who is worse or better I'm just saying my opinions on the people who want to RIP one character to shreds and praise the other.

[@Chriso22]

You perfectly explained why I like bardock would have said the same thing.

[@markusmanssen5624]

2:17 But was he an average fighter?

[@yurazah]

from the super manga stuff? probably not, I wonder if super bardock could take on saiyan saga vegeta...

[@lilbrojoe2]

​@@yurazahI believe the writer of this comment thought you were making a joke based on the line Vegeta said from the Ocean dub about Goku's father inventing the artificial moon: "Your father was an average fighter, Kakarot, but he was a brilliant scientist!"

[@Happyboi1798]

Still Can’t believe Toriama predicated superman’s origin story, truly the writer of all time

[@LordProteus]

The Super manga is the canon version of Super, not the anime. It's why Freiza hasn't seen fusion before in the Brolly movie and why Pan can't fly in the Super Hero movie, because the Flying Pan and Gotenks vs Ginyu episodes of the Super anime are not canon.

[@dark-xh7fs]

We been over this alredy. Manga, anime and movies are all canon. Just choose what suits you best.

[@SmellenBellen]

You do know the broly movie is cannon to both manga and anime right? Because Super hero’s movie was adapted into the manga and that featured broly. They just didn’t rebother drawing the movie but chose to do it for heros for some reason

[@SpectroliteDS]

Yeah that's not how Super's canon works, unlike the Z era stuff. Anime and Manga are just their own separate continuities at this point. Yes, it's dumb. Yes, it's confusing. But that's how Dragonball canon be.

[@Living_In_Paradise]

I don't consider the beerus saga to the tournament of power versions of the manga canon cuz they're just worse versions of what's seen in the anime Specially the tournament of power, that saga was super rushed in the manga

[@AgnesBooth-zu7tw]

Manga and anime have different routes Canon means is part of the story and complements it. The movies are alternatives stories base of the current archs That's why the garlic saga after frieza is filler and not part of the Manga story At its stated they created filler episodes in order no to have the anime above the manga.

[@isimperialist]

Honestly in my canon Dragon Ball Z: Bardock the Father of Goku is canon over DBS: Broly.

[@saadsami8860]

I think it cute that Akira truly loved his work years after but already forgot a lot about it Through there's multiple things that say he loved db even before i think he just go so tired mid writing he hated db If db wasn't number one his heart i don't think he would work on it in these last year's especially with his illnes and instead do something with dr slump

[@bryanu1737]

Awesome video! I completely agree with what you said and it kinda sucks what super did to Z

[@dark-xh7fs]

So its still not super, its minus. It just got adapted to broly movie. Goku age is also retconed in minus. Maybe change title so its fits?

[@yurazah]

yes, but like I said, back before super included it, the majority of people didnt even know about minus, it was easy to dismiss as a one off bad take and ignore, I remember when the broly trailer had a shot that made people think minus was becoming part of the movie and everyone was hoping it wasn't true, sadly it was

[@slavtrooper9566]

Head canon is great and all but the reason that people are worried about what is considered officially "canon" is because it means that future material has to be made with the "canon" in mind. And often it can lead to contradictions and dumb moments or retcons that drag down an otherwise good story. Canon and continuity is something that's very important in telling a good story. As far as head-canon goes I think that's always fine. It's always fun to see different people's interpretations of this old story.

[@insanemakaioshin]

The story is better when Brain damage isn’t involved with Goku becoming good. Having Goku sent to Earth is not a Superman clone. It’s a reference to Kaguya. Minus is a more enjoyable story than the OVA, because it shows that there were more jobs than just warriors and Bardock was a more relatable character as a protective father than a generic villain trying to outrun karma in the form of outliving his usefulness to his boss.

[@crestofhonor2349]

Goku hitting his head and becoming more docile and kind hearted has been there since DBZ. That's not a Super thing as otherwise Grandpa Gohan wouldn't have had issues with Goku being a rowdy and violent kid before he hit his head. That's something Muten Roshi stated. This happened in chapter 195 of the Dragon Ball manga

[@insanemakaioshin]

@ I know & I think that it’s stupid that *brain damage* is getting all the credit. He’s now rowdy because he lost everything and he’s kind, because that’s who he always was. No more *brain damage* getting credit for anything.

[@ThuyNguyen-nh6hi]

Just wanted to said I like DBS Bardock but doesn't mean I dislike DBZ Bardock I just dislike the people who thought their opinions, Headcanon are Superior to everyone else (who disapproved their "Superior" opinion) It's not like DBS, Daima exist and just erased all of DB history or something The saiyan origin still the same tho for now (Wait until Daima finished)

[@matthewmackenzie5773]

Nah yall off the chain with this one. Big nope. Akira set the record straight and for good reason. You fools wanna run around and act like the american knock off dbz which obviously is fantastic, is the standard than your crazy because its not. Akira is god in the universe of dragon ball and what he says goes. Dont like it go watch hentai

[@thouken5777]

Pull up Akiras pants when he's finished

[@SmellenBellen]

It’s worse but I’d prefer it being worse so that we know and see Gina and broly as well as tarble are canonized. I’ve never really felt the hype for bardock anyway tbh

[@kaidenjohnson2624]

Tarble was already canon before minus existed

[@MrAsh1989]

Whoever is drawing your thumbnails is really annoying me.

[@DouglasGomesBueno-jw9lh]

A Baby coming to dominate earth makes no sense there's no fucking way a Baby can dominate the earth in DBS he's more Older make a little more sense.

[@yurazah]

The saiyans are ruthless, sink or swim, we're not gona waist food resources on a baby that can't pull it's own weight

[@eranshachar9954]

I so agree man. To me I rather have the OG Burdock special, in my case I do dismiss DBS Broly for the crimes it did against 4 interesting characters: Broly, Paragas, Burdock & Bejita The-III. Basically they took what is already good and destroyed it. DBS as a whole I find it as mostly bad excluding the Goku Black saga which to me is gold. After all Future Trunks is my favorite Saiyan hybrid so...

[@FreakGeSt]

"excluding the Goku Black saga", that was the most sinful of all, the worst of the worst.

[@eranshachar9954]

@@FreakGeSt Say to you please. To me it was the absolute best thing in this show.

[@SansINess53]

I prefer Z bardock

[@kda9x]

0:50 he's actually a slightly edgier Jor El

[@0047sssss]

Goku's alien origin has always been a Superman ripoff, DB Minus just made it more obvious

[@thouken5777]

"Always been a superman ripoff" -kryptonians aren't planet conquers they don't work under a galactic tyrant and they don't seel planets goku was supposed to he's nothing like superman other than being sent off world prior to his worlds destruction that's where the similarities end being sent away prior to destruction of a home like area is a common trope not just stemming from superman that's like saying anyone who loses their parents or any powerless vigilante is a batman ripoff

[@Spadeaswell]

This video reeks of nostalgia drowning.

[@Chriso22]

No you're just a dbs fan which dosen't care for the orginal story.

[@Spadeaswell]

⁠@@Chriso22I do care for the original story, and I do see the flaws of Super. I’m just not blinded by nostalgia, and I can see compromises instead of “retcons”.

[@Chriso22]

​@Spadeaswell it's not just a compromise though is it? It's completely changing the narrative of the story maybe you do care you just don't understand.

[@Spadeaswell]

@@Chriso22What are you talking about? What’s wrong with Bardock being a little good anyway? Just because he’s not shown to be a ruthless killer doesn’t mean he isn’t offscreen.

[@Chriso22]

​@Spadeaswell and what's wrong with people that read the orginal stories to not accept the different new takes on Super Bardock you talk about nostalgia but I can easily throw that back at you with recency bias as dbs fan you're no more of a fan than a dbz fan is.

[@youthfulgreenbeast3851]

I feel the same way. There is alot in super that i cant really enjoy because of retcons, inconsistancy or just bad writing. I do like some aspects of it though Beerus and Whis for example are my favourite new characters from super, but the way they were introduced was so sloppy. We are told Beerus made Freeza blow up planet Vegeta which takes some of the impact of Freeza being an evil tyrant and feels more like hes just following orders. Freeza knowing about Beerus and Majin buu doesnt work either because in Z he states hes the strongest in the universe. But if he knows about the gods then it sounds like hes just lying to everyone instead of just not being informed. Vegeta knew about Beerus too, which feels off because Beerus should have been brought up in conversation before by that logic. It would make more sense if nobody knew about Beerus except for the gods themselves. I do love some of the new lore we are given though. The other universes, the heirachy system of gods, angels, Zeno. But even all that has its issues. We are told similar universes add up to 13, and there are 12 of them. So far that makes sense, but then we are told Zeno erased 4 universes. Suddenly we have 13, 14, 15 and 16 that dont match up with this rule weve been given I could go on forever, but you get my point. Also kinda doubt anyone has read this far into my comment anyway

[@chromephone]

vegeta did know beerus is that his memories supressed his existance making vegeta forget after meeting him I think that frieza wanted to kill all saiyans just that beerus was the only thing that was stoping him till he got confermation

[@Chriso22]

Never thought of beerus and whis like that and I've had heavy criticism on super interesting.

[@crismon0726]

still not as bad as the Z dub

[@eeveefennecfox]

I don't think I ever realized he hated his own work,but of course my simple mind couldn't figure that out XD it always felt like dragon ball to me no matter what he did

[@zspider1778]

I choose goku coming to wipe out man kind over superman rip off all day also the ideia of barberian race obcessed with fighting is so cool it should never change

[@AreteG]

Thank you for making this. Bardock's character got completely ruined in the Super era. Goku has got some set backs too, but Bardock really got the short end of the stick. (the sayians got crapped on pretty hard too) Imo head canon is the best way to enjoy Db

[@WildFang39]

Super also ruined bardock. He was such a gangster in Z but now in super, they made him good cuz Goku is good

[@chromephone]

super bardock is not good still quite evil

[@dark-xh7fs]

I would say hes more a free type of guy. He does what he likes. He killed many after all l, so he can't be objectively a good guy.

[@WildFang39]

@@dark-xh7fs I'm probally gonna say this wrong cuz I'm not really into geeking into anime characters but I feel like Z bardock still felt like a traditional Saiyan. In super it just feels like they switched him up knowing he was popular and changed him to fit the narrative

[@pasalasaga]

My types of canon Current Anime Canon: • Jaco, The Galactic Patrolman • Dr. Slump (1981) • Dragon Ball (without filler) • Dragon Ball Kai (1-165) • Dragon Ball Daima • Dragon Ball: Hey! Goku and his Friends Returns! • Dragon Ball Super • Dragon Ball Super: Broly • Dragon Ball Super [Manga] (Chapter 42p.35-?) - • Dragon Ball Kai (166-167) Current Canon Manga: • Dragon Ball Minus • Jaco, The Galactic Patrolman • Dr. Slump • Dragon Ball (1-350) • Dragon Ball (The Story of Trunks) • Dragon Ball (351-517p.10) • Dragon Ball: Daima • Dragon Ball: Hey! Goku and his Friends Returns! • Dragon Ball Super (1-4) • Dragon Ball Super -The Resurrection of F'- • Dragon Ball Super (5-42p.34) • Dragon Ball Super: Broly - Anime comic • Dragon Ball Super (42p.35-ongoing) • Dragon Ball (517p.11-519) _____________________________ 90s Canon Anime: • Dr. Slump (1981) • Dragon Ball (without filler) • Dragon Ball Z (1-77) [without filler] • Dragon Ball Z - TV Special I: Bardock, The Father of Goku • Dragon Ball Z (78-133) [without filler] • Dragon Ball Z - TV Special II: La Historia de Trunks • Dragon Ball Z (134-end) [without filler] 90s Canon Manga: [For me, this is the definitive one] • Dr. Slump (manga) • Dragon Ball (Chapters 1-306) • Dragon Ball Z - TV Special I: Bardock, The Father of Goku (I wish there was a manga version out of this OVA) • Dragon Ball (Chapters 307-350) • Dragon Ball (The Story of Trunks) • Dragon Ball (351-519) 90s Pop Canon: • Dr. slump (1981) [243] • Dragon Ball [153 Episodess] • Dragon Ball Z: Garlick Jr. • Dragon Ball Z (1-77) • Dragon Ball Z - TV Special I: Bardock, The Father of Goku • Dragon Ball Z (78-124) • Dragon Ball Z: Cooler • Dragon Ball Z (125-133) • Dragon Ball Z - TV Special II: The Story of Trunks • Dragon Ball Z (134-171) • Dragon Ball Z: Broly • Dragon Ball Z (172-194) • Dragon Ball Z: Bojack • Dragon Ball Z (195-207) • Dragon Ball Z: Broly 2 • Dragon Ball Z (208-288) • Dragon Ball Z: Hildegarn and Tapion • Dragon Ball Z (289-291) • Dragon Ball GT (1-63) • Dragon Ball GT - 64 (0:00 - 14:16) • Dragon Ball GT: 100 Years Later • Dragon Ball GT - 64 (14:16 - 24:11) (The rest of Dragon Ball films are part of this, but it's on different realities) 90s Pop Canon (before 2013) • Dr. slump (1981) [243] • Dragon Ball [153 Episodess] • Dragon Ball Z: Garlick Jr. • Dragon Ball Z (1-77) • Dragon Ball Z - TV Special I: Bardock, The Father of Goku • Dragon Ball: Episode of Bardock • Dragon Ball Z (78-124) • Dragon Ball Z: Cooler • Dragon Ball Z (125-133) • Dragon Ball Z - TV Special II: The Story of Trunks • Dragon Ball Z (134-171) • Dragon Ball Z: Broly • Dragon Ball Z (172-194) • Dragon Ball Z: Bojack • Dragon Ball Z (195-207) • Dragon Ball Z: Broly 2 • Dragon Ball Z (208-288) • Dragon Ball Z: Hildegarn and Tapion • Dragon Ball: Hey! Goku and his Friends Returns! • Dragon Ball Z (289-291) • Dragon Ball GT (1-63) • Dragon Ball GT - 64 (0:00 - 14:16) • Dragon Ball AF • Dragon Ball GT: 100 Years Later • Dragon Ball GT - 64 (14:16 - 24:11) (The rest of Dragon Ball films and some games are part of this, but it's on different realities) I also want to consider Super/Daima/Jaco as a secondary canon, and the things made by Toei like GT or the films before BoG as tertiary canon. But the secondary canon for me is the Mythology out of It that is canon. Like Zeno, the Hakaishin, the Angels, the multiverse. Even though Super and Daima are definitely canon. Then we have heroes/Xenoverse/online which I don't know where to put It. I consider It full non-canon. But I like the idea of Chronoa, I wonder if there is a Hakaishin of Time with his Angel of Time, and his own Dragon Balls of Time or something.

[@crestofhonor2349]

You forgot to add in Super Hero to the current anime canon as it is canon

[@pasalasaga]

@crestofhonor2349 it's already on the manga.

[@inkchariot6147]

Super in general is a massive fuck-up.

[@Frogurtgaming]

I liked it better when Goku was just a martial artist fighting for fun.

[@yurazah]

I mean, he kinda still is..

[@Frogurtgaming]

@yurazah Kinda, but now it's "oh no, evil guy is coming and I need to beat him" instead of "I am Jackie Chun and you will never beat me"

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@Frogurtgaming Goku's take on a fight depends on the threat level. If it's not too serious he tends to have more fun

[@Frogurtgaming]

@@crestofhonor2349 But it's almost always serious now

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@Frogurtgaming That's been more of a thing since DBZ although it's not always true

[@naomino7222]

Goku and Superman's backstories always had parallels, but DBS broly made them too close. Bardock, being this ruthless saiyan with no regard for others, was the one that stood out to me the most. He was just a normal saiyan man in a tragedy he was forced to live through twice. That is why his sacrifice scene became so iconic. When they tried to replicate it during broly, it just felt out of place as he didn't go through the same steps DBZ bardock did. The only thing I liked from the new one is that we see goku's mom and DBS broly himself (love em). With how much the franchise loves to milk that man, I was surprised they didn't give in during the granola arc and let him have ssj. I wanna see more gine.

[@diegoantoniofrias9309]

I remember people tryind to explain Bardock's Power up in the Granola Arc by saying "oh it's false Super Saiyan" "oh it's Ikari mode" "oh it's that Thing Goku did against King Piccolo" when in reality it was just Charging Ki like Nappa

[@Chriso22]

They ruined his backstory by ruining bardock and i don't care if the bardock special wasn't cannon the fact that minus was created ruined the main story and this is a rare instance i didn't like how toriyama wrote his story. i do not like the modren sympathetic take on the sayians they clearly weren't supposed to be viewed that way back in the orginal like they did with the broly movie.

[@AgnesBooth-zu7tw]

Bro you don't speak the truth, just your opinions Opinions and facts are not the same. The meaning of truth has being bastardize to the point being a bias opinion to suit personal needs.

[@marxist-leninist-protagonist]

I don't agree that Toriyama's modern STYLE is worse. His ART could be argued. His poses seemed to get stiff or something. But I think the style is just preferrence really.

[@crestofhonor2349]

It works extremely well for his stuff regarding Dragon Quest but yeah it's very different from when he was penning Dragon Ball throughout the 80s and 90s. Granted, Toriyama's art style has never been consistent, it was always changing throughout pretty much all of his long running manga

[@bananashoplifter3440]

Yeh, pretty much

[@thelettucebarrel7784]

No it didn’t lmao. Also, using your own very faulty logic to say that the Bardock special is canon, it isn’t, to justify a contradiction that YOU made up is such a disingenuous move. You are like the complete 50/50 of good and bad takes lol.

[@yurazah]

I didnt make up the contradiction... I put the images side by side for you...

[@thelettucebarrel7784]

@ Yes you did. It’s simply a retcon. Freeza could be misremembering how Bardock looked then or something. Either way, my point is that you’re using one small scene from a panel to say it’s more canon than something the original author wrote just because you like it more, and using that as a basis to say the Special is more canon than Minus or the Broly movie. That’s one of the worst things I’ve heard lately in regards to DB canon.

[@yurazah]

@@thelettucebarrel7784 have you read my pinned comment? obviously when watching super, the super stuff is cannon, but when just looking at the manga, the manga refrences the bardock special, that cant be said for minus or broly. so I consider the special to be cannon to the origional manga only, if you get into super, obviously that changes

[@thelettucebarrel7784]

@@yurazah The Super stuff is canon in general, not just to Super. Your distinction here is pointless.

[@yurazah]

@@thelettucebarrel7784 theres like an entire part of my video where I talk about how people shouldn't take "cannon" so seriously in general, you know your being that guy right now

[@NTRisforthinkers]

I agree 💯

[@Highball1417]

I'm fine if people prefer Z Bardock but what pisses me of is everything you said about Super Bardock is just objectively wrong, a complete misunderstanding of his character.

[@yurazah]

I don't really agree, mostly cause I barely comment on super bardock in this video, all I really say is hes edgy goku, and worse than z bardock, which I still think is true. this really isnt my analysis of super bardock as a character

[@Highball1417]

@@yurazah Yeah and that is objectively wrong, he is none of those things

[@theflamethr0wer724]

I mean yeah, Goku's origin story got more generic but I feel like you can at least argue that super did it better since Bardock getting future vision only to die anyway was kind of dumn, but I feel like manga really did a dumb decision regarding Bardock that does ruin Goku's origin story somewhat, apperently bardock wished with dragon ball for his sons to end up thriving which not only makes Goku's progress less impactfull, but also doesn't make any sense because Raditz was weak as hell and ended up getting killed and getting forgotten by everyone, when Bradock wanted a great future for his children. Also I don't like that both Z and Super kind of show Bardock as the only one who tried to challange Frieza, when in both adaptations Saiyans had a grudge against the guy, you would think some of them would at least try to help Bardock.

[@thouken5777]

Tell me you didn't watch the bardock special without telling me

[@legendarybroliz4578]

I'll say it, I hate super

[@eeveefennecfox]

anime hater

[@legendarybroliz4578]

@eeveefennecfox super deserves the hate

[@MrAsh1989]

I've literally just unsubscribed as you were asking for subs, lol. DBS is the worst written fanflick EVER. It's like some cringe infant decided to put pen to paper and write down all the worst ideas imaginable. Who would have thought, those cringe fan images of SS5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 would all come true. I wasn't into those fan drawing even when I was 12, so imagine being into them in 2024..... And yet, the fans of Super aren't 11 years old and younger. They're all in their mid to late 20's. That's why it annoys me so much. Something that is so blatantly poor, so insulting to the canon and vision of the entire series, executed in such a poor manner, shouldn't have saw the light of day. Yet it did, and you all love it.

[@diegoantoniofrias9309]

We don't know if Toriyama's disease was affecting him during the production of Super but if he did then this comment feels a bit Disrespectful

[@MrAsh1989]

@@diegoantoniofrias9309 Super saiyan God. Super Saiyan blue. super saiyan rose. Super saiyan white. Super saiyan purple. super saiyan beast silver WTF??

[@ConnorNorris]

I keep telling people, Dragon Ball has never been a well-written series, so arguments over canon are utterly pointless. As good as Daima has been so far, Toriyama's death may prove to have been the best thing for the series. It's time to let Toyotaro inherit the series and take it somewhere new, unshackled from the past.

[@dwightnorton3398]

Agreed

[@Maximum_Nova]

uh... oops kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJCnd31jhL2HsLM

[@SiNKarnage]

The Dub is not a good source to take reference from 😂

[@crestofhonor2349]

Dub has so many errors in it

[@Mediaguy8000]

It's sad to know that Toei themselves can do Dragon Ball better than the creator himself.

[@BorosBlood-jx2fl]

nah, i think it's good

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

Yeah I dunno I guess people like and hate what they want. I don't agree with this take but I won't undermine Toei's interpretation

[@TrineofFire333]

I like Goku's mother, I always love me some Saiyan lady-beasts and fine, give her a soft side, her softness can give Goku his "gentle" demeaner. However and this is is a Giant Monkey sized however, Bardok being a scientist or soft in any capacity does not fit him at all, him being a low class badass warrior was a perfect fit. Saiyans will always be best depicted as a violent, intolerant warrior race of meat eating, promiscuous savages and I love them for that. Saiyans aren't scientists, they are not politicians and they do not live in Southern California. This retcon (minus Goku's mother) is non-canon as far as I'm concerned. To add, I wholeheartedly agree, Saiyan females being depicted as housewives is cringe inducing. I can only imagine that maybe only Goku's unique mother would be housewife material and she'd be a RARE exception.

[@esaahmed-u3z]

Yurazah pls pinn your the best

[@esaahmed-u3z]

Firssssssssssssssssssssssssst