Dragons and Storm Gods: Why good dragons turned bad

[@Crecganford]

Are there any dragons you would like to know more about?

[@jashansingh4999]

Fáfnir and Sigurður

[@Crecganford]

@@jashansingh4999 What a story that was... yes, I have told some of Sigurður tales here, but perhaps I should dive deep into the one about Fáfnir. Great idea. Thank you.

[@jashansingh4999]

@@Crecganford It would be great looking forward fór the video patiencently

[@OffRampTourist]

Possible identification of some Biblical angels as dragons? The firey serpent that could heal the israelites when in the desert?

[@hubert4538]

Wawel Dragon

[@Jabranalibabry]

A veteran and psych here, I once saw lightening strike in a mountainous region with heavy rain. Let me tell you, if you've never seen it up close, nothing can compare to it. It's unbelievably bright and mesmerisingly terrifying.

[@OffRampTourist]

Agreed! I once saw a bolt strike a telephone pole just ahead of the car I was a passenger in, and it was followed by ball lightning crawling down the pole. We couldn't get away fast enough!

[@MegaKnight2012]

I was on a military base, reading a Dresden Files book, where the main wizard conversed with the horned Erlking, Lord of the Wild Hunt, I looked up and saw a flash of lightning that looked like the outline of a stag's head

[@SakkiDuran]

Yeah I liked it. I had one striking right next to my old house. I used to live in a third floor and it just lighted everything up. I even recall hearing a click and half a second of total silence. Then boom! I fell in love with thunder ❤️

[@MickAngelhere]

I was riding my motorbike in a massive storm one night , many years ago, when lightning struck literally a fifty feet in from me and turned night into day and it was extremely bright

[@yoeyyoey8937]

I’ve been caught outside during a massive lightning storm, having to walk a few miles by myself, as an adult. It was one of the more frightening experiences of my life. It was so unbelievably violent that I could not even stand to look at it, I stole some glances but I was completely humbled by the raw terror of nature.

[@Crecganford]

It is an experience. We're having many thunder storms right now in England, and I'm in awe at the power of them, and so much lightning. Incredible.

[@fernandosanz4422]

I love how this episode ties in with the previous one about the dragon origins. The quality of your output keeps rising and rising. Thank you so much

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for you kind words, and for watching these videos. It is all appreciated.

[@algernoncalydon3430]

The worst thing about thunder is not the rain that comes afterward, but the fire. In natural environments like forests or steppe, positive lightning strikes are the main source of large fires. As we've seen in Alaska, some of these fires can devastate areas for hundreds of miles. Some can run with a three hundred foot high wall of fire on the front. The sound of a wind driven fire is like a hundred freight trains coming your way.

[@Crecganford]

That's a good point. Thank you for sharing it.

[@SensoriaMaRia]

I was about to write the same for the recent (6 years worth) of California fires. Last year's Dixie Complex Mega Fire destroyed over 1 million acres in of itself. While this particular fire took out so much land in our Sierra Nevadas, ultimately it was caused by aged power infrastructure. But God, everytime we see thunderheads gather we are on edge. Never knowing when or where dry lightning will hit our beloved Mountains.

[@danf7411]

@@SensoriaMaRia forestry practices in California are ass backwards, these goblins do need to to go to underground cables where you are but lack of prescribed burns are a bigger issue. If we leave the forest to itself while we are living inside of it we are not going to like nature's solution. Gotta manicure the forest, you can only put so much on climate change and pg and 3

[@aariley2]

SCARY!!!

[@littlebird619]

I would suggest the opposite, in Australia the seasonal burning coming from nature, harnessed by the indigenous peoples, is what promotes new growth of grasses and the germination of seeds. In fact the power of fire, brings death and then new life.

[@Mr.HotDogShirtGuy]

Crecganford has become one of my favorite channels since discovering it! Your analysis of myths, legends, stories are fascinating! I love your work!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for your kind words and for watching my videos

[@Ebo1980s]

The Bible also says Hades is Satan. So who is zues

[@darrylviljoen6227]

​@@Ebo1980sSatan's brother.

[@lizc6393]

I have no idea how this channel doesn't have a massive following. Mad props my man, your presentation and expertise is captivating.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much, I'm not much of a social media person, so I just let the channel wander along at its own pace :)

[@Strider-Widogast]

I am looking forward to when you do a video like this for sun gods. I use a lot of mythological references in my writing and this was an eye-opening video on the “root” of storm gods and where their myths intersect. Thanks for all your hard work!

[@Crecganford]

Yes, I think a video on Sun Gods would be worth while. Leave it with me.

[@Brandon-a-writer]

thunderbolts and lightning, very very frightening!

[@Crecganford]

Galileo Galiao

[@arthurkoopmanswatercolors]

Indra does have the same consonants as the Germanic Donar coincidentally. There is another quality of serpents and dragons that is of note, and that is poisonous fumes. It is also these fumes that Thor succumbs to, either falling from his chariot to earth (Thunor) or taking a few strides before he falls (Thor at Ragnarökr). In a Hindu myth, it is the serpent Vasuki that emits venomous fumes. Of course, ordinary snakes can produce venom, but not venomous fumes as far as I know... The poisonous breath of serpents also reminds me of the book of Revelation, where a star called Wormwood poisons the waters and makes them bitter.

[@OffRampTourist]

Were some fiery flying serpents said to emit poisonous fumes?

[@bardmadsen6956]

@@OffRampTourist I don't recall specifically both attributed to the same beast yet they smell terrible, like swamps, produce acid / lye rain, and bring pestilence.

[@Crecganford]

The poisonous fumes are not a regular motif within the dragon, and whilst we see some big examples of it, it doesn't mean it was a common feeling, and so I think we should look at this more closely.

[@TropicOfCancer1998]

Maybe its a spitting cobra!?

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

Marshes, fog and evil breath. Explanations are unlimited

[@KassandraFuria13]

My hunting dog still feels like that frightened ! I live in the middle of Germany and he starts trembling, when there is thunderstorm and bad weather in eastern France. Thank you very much for your wonderful deep work !

[@Crecganford]

And thank you for watching, I hope your dog is ok.

[@constantinedeboudox]

Thank you for the great videos. Thunder striking the tree would have also been one of humanity's earliest sources of fire, thus maybe connected with the stolen celestial fire motif.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, it may have, and thank you for watching the videos.

[@kalpeshn3092]

20:20 Awesome content. Another name for Vedic Indra is Purandara (= "destroyer of strongholds") - quite similar to Perun.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and yes, it is.

[@justsomebeer]

That was the most perfect subscription request ever.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, I do try to make them a little different.

[@jasonmain6398]

By the way this is literally my favorite channel on youtube. I think this field of inquiry is criminally underrated on the whole.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, and I agree there is certainly not much available to the public to understand these things really deeply, which is why I created this channel.

[@Terroid]

17:46 Many people draw "Perkunos" to India's "Parjanya" or "Indra", but i haven't seen anyone talk or relate "Perkunos" to the vedic god of rain/water, who is "Varun"/"Varuna". We can see mentions of varun as early as the beginning of Rigveda. I feel, Varun like the Slavic "Perun" was the first god of water and rain, which then "Indra" took over the duties of later on(Edit: Here's another thing which came into mind, "Mithra" who was treated as a god, but wasn't worshiped as such, was also a good friend of Varuna, hence the term "Mithra" is still used in Indian languages today which translates to "Friend", this has definitely something to do with the Mithra of Persia and the Roman cult of Mithras, again..., just my thoughts). Those are just my thoughts, what do you think about this?? Also a small titbit, the word "Indra" refers to "Indriya", or sense organs. He is said to be a god with a 100 eyes(sense organs), and can feel or see what everyone can see. Yeah this description is also very rare, but i've read this in the ancient texts as well.. Is this somehow related to the ancient Canaanite religion(as their later angels in the abrahamic text almost fit this kind of description)??

[@Crecganford]

I think this needs its own video as a response, especially around Varuna. So leave this with me and I will make this.

[@Terroid]

@@Crecganford :O. Nice!! Love your work :D!

[@Terroid]

@@Deepak_Dhakad hmm yeah, tbh that makes more sense It's been a while since I've last read the books lol, sorry mb!

[@king_halcyon]

@@Deepak_Dhakad as far as I know Vishnu and Shiva were also cursed by sages while Brahma was cursed by Shiva... all Trimurti gods are cussed

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

it's just regular Indoeuropean confusion every time their population grew they altered and mixed Gods overthinking things. 100eyes is like Sviatovid. It's either the idea or more vague allgod mix of all elements or specifically of middleworld the Mithraic part makes them more similar to Hermes, god of agreements, vowes, traders, travellers a sworn brothership is one aspect he could guarantee It's always depending on context. As world cycles good and evil cycles light and darkness cycles and neither of these is inherently good of evil or stronger we with our hierarchies can't comprehend it it comes from time of cults inherited in families without any centralises monolithic imposed system it was as fluid as imagination of the old grandpas and grandmas who repeating old stories

[@zipperpillow]

Welcome back Jon. I miss you when you're gone. You have the best channel on the internet, dense, rich, and insightful. Great stuff.

[@Crecganford]

And thank you for your kind words. They are very much appreciated.

[@OldOneTooth]

A large crocodile could certainly have bound access to water, emerging to drag down sacrifices.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, and I wouldn't discount it as an influence in the myth's development.

[@jashansingh4999]

Another work of art keep up spreading the knowledge

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching and your support.

[@EmL-kg5gn]

I remember when I was little sometimes there would be really big storms that woke everyone up. My family would get up and sit together to watch the storm. I loved it! Sometimes the thunder was so loud that even if you yelled at the top of your lungs the person next to you couldn’t hear you at all. The normally very quiet creek not far from our house would be rushing too! There were places where it ran through big pipes, big enough to climb through, and they became like giant hoses. Think how a hose is when you turn it up fully. The water rushed like that but bigger and faster, it shot out of the pipes at the exits, and occasionally there was so much water the pipes couldn’t carry it all! Some houses would flood a little in a storm like that and the next day after things quietened down us kids would play in any water that had collected and go to find the big branches or maybe a tree that had fallen. We always got leeches from the flood water but we didn’t mind! The water would drain away pretty quickly and the creek would calm down eventually too

[@paperboy1116]

Man am I glad I found this channel! This dives so hard into myths compared to a lot of other channels. This makes me want to do an entire day of deep dives into this

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for your kind words, I hope you enjoy it here.

[@M15115]

yes, i just found this channel and the only other creator i know that is similar with the video's quality and depth is Arith Härger !

[@jeniferred3733]

I can say the same. Thank you for this channel!

[@ThunderMoon6458]

I love thunder storms they always make me feel good weather I'm walking in it or sitting inside with the window open

[@nobodyexceptme7794]

Whenever I see waterspouts/tornadoes pop up over the water I always imagine a prehistoric man looking out from the beach and thinking of it as a dragon. A huge funnel of wind and water twisting from ocean to sky, all kinds of noise.

[@mightandmercy]

0:52 ok that sound effect had me jumping. Thanks for a library of great videos. Inspiring for writing and D&D

[@StarlasAiko]

I remember having been caught out in a thunderstorm while suffering severe heat fatigue, borderline heat stroke. And it was not a thunderstorm a couple of miles away, it was right above and around me. The thunder was like the explosions cannon fire, the lightning was blindingly bright. For the following three years after that, I suffered panic attacks at the sound of any thunder, however faint.

[@Ashley-tz2ww]

None of them are bad, and ALL work together to create a beautiful, wonderful life for us all ❤

[@MrOuruboros]

This is a great deal!: I like and subscribe, and give a comment now and then, and you teach me stuff and tell awesome stories. You are a great storyteller. Thanks

[@Crecganford]

And thank you for watching the videos.

[@nickferraro5775]

I can't wait to hear u talk about Yahwehs original pantheon!

[@Crecganford]

That is a project I am working on, and still some months away, but it is very fascinating.

[@edwardspencer3906]

Grew up in the Lightning capitol of the world, central Florida and have had many first hand experiences...Awe inspiring is an Understatement.. can understand how our ancestors saw God in it....

[@krzysztofzpucka7220]

Fight between dragon and storm god is in fact symbolic description of a bolide (flying and fire-spitting dragon) entering the earth's atmosphere and ensuing phenomena (storm god) - firestorm, thunder, hurricane and so forth.

[@Crecganford]

In which culture's mythology?

[@ohioheathen1997]

I appreciate your work as a Polythiest and a aspiring historian!

[@chadb1675]

Amazing research as always

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much.

[@alohaandchillohana]

Amazing video thank u! Well in my culture the Dragons are constantly warring with the Akua Gods (they are like the Annunaki) and all species in our past seemed to be giant…kamehameha was at least 9 feet tall.

[@scm523]

Thank you for your fantastic work in narrating and explaining the myths of our ancestors (and providing us with the bibliography to go deeper into these interesting questions). Greetings from Majorca

[@Crecganford]

And thank you for watching and your kind words.

[@LauraNunez]

Your videos are amazing! Could you do one on GOBLINS? fascinating topic. Have a good day!

[@Crecganford]

I am planning a video on such creatures of folklore, and so yes!

[@LauraNunez]

​ @Crecganford Wohoo! 🐲🐉🧚‍♀🧚 I don't understand why there's no goblin emoticon yet, there's even a fairy with a swimming cap! 🧚‍♂hehe

[@PjotrFrank]

Yet another great video on a most interesting mythology. The only thing I missed, was the Old High German "Donar" showing up on your map. ;)

[@Crecganford]

Thank you. I missed out many, it would be too messy... but for Donar it would become Thunor.

[@TheBottegaChannel]

I've seen that type of storm you spoke of. That's the type of storm that's both deadly and gorgious, like staring into the eyes of a kaijuu sized carnivore. Forces of nature in such raw, unfiltered, no f**ks given form like that is true testament to legends.

[@imaginempress3408]

Storm witches were my topic of discussion this evening. This is a great tie-in.

[@misssecondstar]

Thanks for this fantastic education

[@Crecganford]

And thank you for watching, and your kind words.

[@dalestaley5637]

As always, your content is outstanding. You're part of my daily enrichment of the mind. Thank you Jon.

[@betsyeverson859]

That was fascinating. Thank you so much!

[@Crecganford]

Your welcome. It is always good to see people are enjoying my work.

[@OffRampTourist]

Another great presentation. Interested in any connections between dragons and volcanoes.

[@Crecganford]

Now that's an interesting suggestion, I'll put it on my to do list.

[@ThatDudeLarzFoo-ah]

Dragons have been associated with comets and given that comets are often laden with ice, therefore responsible and key to the delivery of water to the planet, it makes a little sense that the connection could be made there. Also of note is that the presence of comets / asteroids / meteors lines up with a direct correlation of increased volcanic activity on the earth so it would appear that the potential connection is two for two so far. Lol These breakdowns and stories are so fun to deep dive into. Thanks for all the great content and comments

[@almadeltigre2777]

I’ve recently found your channel and immediately subscribed and watched so many of your videos! Would you be able to do a video on the phoenix/firebird type of myths throughout cultures and history?

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, and yes, it is on my list of videos to produce.

[@king_halcyon]

@@Crecganford Please do one on the "farthest plane of Earth", often being utopian or with it’s own "heaven" without death (Indian Ocean of Milk with its White Island, Germanic Odain Sakr... and possibly Shia Islamic Jabulqa and Jabulsa at the world-bordering mountain range of Qaf). And this may be old but idk: a video on the possible three sky belief of Proto Indo Europeans, only preserved in Greece after combining it with Hurrian myths of castration and overthrow of grandpa by pa by the ultimate ruler of the SKY (and the world).

[@dantanner6631]

I have so many videos to catch up on! 85k subscribers now wow congratulations johnathan nobody on youtube more deserving! 👍🙌

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your kind words. It's all gone a bit bonkers on the channel.

[@cynthiarowley719]

Thank you! Love your closed captioning. Never an error! Actual Intelligence 🕊️🖖

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, I do try to make it accurate and multi-lingual.

[@samuelesanfilippo222]

The dragon slaying myth in some part of europe is also perceived as a change of season kind of event, like dragon kidnap the wove of the storm god the god would pursue and kill the dragon amd his blood would be the rain. At least i rememember reading of this in latvian myth or the like (lithuan latvian and such tend to be quite similar)

[@Crecganford]

Yes, the myths and motifs change with culture and environment, and blood for rain is the most common of these.

[@18differentbones]

My dreams are narrated by this man.

[@Crecganford]

I'm not sure what I'm narrating, but I hope they're sweet dreams.

[@Durakken]

I love Dragons but I'd love videos on the ... Gigantomachy, Dionysus, and their possible connection to each other and the Biblical story of Abraham and Lot. The various Origins of the names of the continents and people with and the table of nations. The Council of Kings at Byblos that seems to me to possibly be the origin of the idea of pantheons. I'd also love to hear more of Egyptian and Asian mythology and how it connects what you've covered so far... Also the how/where the "elements" like wind, water, earth, fire, void, came from and how they're all linked together... Likewise, is there any mythological links to the development of colors. It seems to me that there should be some sort myth that "created" the idea of each of the colors. I've never come across any but it seems like something that should be there to me.

[@Crecganford]

There is a lot there, but I will add the ideas to my list. Thank you.

[@braukorpshomebrew6039]

I'm really digging all of these dragon videos. Keep it up!

[@Crecganford]

I will take a couple of weeks off dragons for now, as this video didn't do very well. But they will be back!

[@king_halcyon]

@@Crecganford how can you determine it did not do well in a few days if some people discover and rapidly start watching things much later?

[@lemur68winny666]

It's hard to find quality content on yt, but there it is. Thank you ❤️

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@lemur68winny666]

@@Crecganford on top of that you're a very good storyteller. Also, every time I see a list of references my inner nerd sighs with relief.

[@williamwright4586]

Regarding the book of Job quotation, I suggest listening to Professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou (Exeter). It seems YAWAH first had to bash the sea monsters. Then in Job he's more powerful and can catch them on a hook. Later in Jewish faiths he plays with sea monsters. She talks really well about this online. It's quite an interesting progression.

[@Crecganford]

I know Francesca, and have her latest book. I have spoken to a number of other academics about this, and there is some ambiguity in YHWHs development, but also in what Leviathan and Behemoth really were. And we are trying to work it out, putting our heads together. Thank you for your comment, and for watching.

[@Zumbs]

Could the storm god defeating the dragon be seen as development of sailing using sails? Sails allowed sailors to follow the wind instead of the currents in the water that could be treacherous.

[@Crecganford]

'm not personally sure this would be the case, but if I find anything that suggests this I will let you know.

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

they still sailed seas and these were still deadly winds weren't reliable either

[@martybartfast1]

Again another fantastic description of the history of our ongoing story. I play an RPG called Rune Quest, so much cross over; even in the entertainment dieties. Thank you Sir! I love your work. Best wishes to you and yours. Peace, m out.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching and your kind words.

[@martybartfast1]

@@Crecganford Kind they may be, but deserved they are most definately. Thank you. You do more than you think. Knoeledge is the greatest gift. You are Legend in some of our eyes/ears/mind. Feel the goose bumps of appreciation that others have for you. Paece Sir! m out

[@Soarcio]

This sounds interesting, at like 2 o'clock in the morning I was reading about Norse Mythology, and Thor, and this video will be interesting to find why Storm Gods are the most powerful / the most praised.

[@Crecganford]

I hope you enjoyed it.

[@hubert4538]

I love your work!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for watching it, and your kind words.

[@robpatterson3133]

Awesome pick of subjects 🤘🙂👍

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and your kind words.

[@Ratnoseterry]

Im curious about the 3 books on your shelf that together create an archer or centaur, what are they if you don't mind my asking? 🤔

[@Crecganford]

They are by Quilles, who compiles the data for the info European migration maps I sometimes use.

[@thepeff]

"There's thunder in his footsteps and lightning in his fists." --Christian Singer Rich Mullins, from song Awesome God The idea of YHWH being a storm god seems to be imprinted on believers even today.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and sharing that quote... that is definitely a storm god he's talking about.

[@teddyjones7799]

Very interesting and so very well explained Outstanding work. Thank you

[@Crecganford]

Thank you very much for your kind words.

[@MouseTheMightiest]

The first thunder clap made me jump lol

[@Crecganford]

Sorry about that, just trying to prove the point :)

[@robinbiddlecombe9202]

Another cracking story. Your explanation of how The Thunder God's name changed, had me wondering if there were perhaps other names for Gods in Western Europe that influenced the changes.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your kind words, and for watching.

[@milliondollarmistake]

honestly a video about God's old pantheon sounds really interesting

[@Crecganford]

That is on my list of videos to make :)

[@arcyniminimagik]

This dragon has never been defeated. It will be back one day. For now, it merely sleeps at the bottom of the ocean, near the sunken city of R'lyeh...

[@Crecganford]

I think I won't holiday near there then.

[@spacecowboytroy4882]

Im wondering if the difference between the 'taming of the seas/dragon' myths in the west and the 'gift of water from a good dragon' could also have been influenced by the turbulent nature of the Atlantic vs the calm Pacific respectively; great work as always!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching. I'm not sure our ancestors would have thought of things at that level, and the influence is more to do with the use of water in culture, from the Hunter Gatherers understanding the need for rain, to agricultural farmers, to pastoral farmers no longer so in need of it, coupled with the value of cows versus crops.

[@js1423]

Great video! Can't wait for the Stanhope-interview, since there could be so much comparison between ANE and Indo-European culture!

[@Crecganford]

I'm talking to him, he thinks I know as much as him, so having private chats first, but then the KZbin interview.

[@js1423]

@@Crecganford Good to hear! Can’t wait for it, whenever it might happen!

[@danahegna4442]

My home-town in a valley with surrounding mountain ranges, in Montana, US, is considered semi-arid. The first time I was in a TENT in Minnesota (which has twice the annual rainfall amount) during a thunder-storm, at every thunder-clap I had a strong involuntary startle-response - even though I was consciously focused, counting seconds after lightning flashes, and anticipating the loud 'crack'! Makes sense to me - a Storm God battling a Dragon, forcing it to release precious water. It was an intense visceral experience - the kind of excitement (good or bad) that sticks in the memory.

[@Crecganford]

Wow, that sounds incredible. Thank you for sharing!

[@sundownmcgrath3492]

Love all your videos, thank you.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you

[@MrKreinen]

I love your show, sir; Such enriching content!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much.

[@froggystyle642]

Not watched yet, saved for later. Beer's in the fridge. Always cracking content mate.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, and I hope you like it, and the beer!

[@emom358]

Your videos are incredible! I was wondering if there is a timeline of who did what when?

[@Crecganford]

Thank you. And I would love to make a timeline to show people but there is so many connections and so much happening it is next to impossible unless we stick to a very specific subject.

[@haardshah2443]

Both Indra and Thor were considered kings of gods(alongside Marduk, Ball, Yahweh etc etc) but as time passes on, Odin becomes most popular in Nordic mythology whereas Rudra/Shiva becomes one of the most popular in his pantheon. Now, both Odin and Shiva are same gods, both have a 3rd eye, both of them are described as wanderers. Why did this happen?

[@mobbs6426]

I know it didn't work out this way, but if you reverse engineer Fjorgyn through Germanic shift, you effectively get Porkin, which is what he was probably well known for

[@watermelonlalala]

In England, "Parkin" a kind of gingerbread that was baked in the coals of the seasonal bonfire, the meaning of the name forgotten. (just kidding)

[@jakeaurod]

Do you have a proposed timeline? I was curious when humans may have started wanting anthropomorphic gods to take over for the rain dragon. When I had read about this a few years ago, I wondered if it might refer to irrigation with humans controlling water for farming, and might then have created the new motif ca. 10,000 BP.

[@OffRampTourist]

What an interesting possibility! Hope he responds.

[@Crecganford]

This differs in different cultures... I do touch on this when I talk about the Wild Hunt and the Proto Indo-European comparative mythologies. Perhaps I need to make a specific video on this?

[@jakeaurod]

@@Crecganford I'll have to go watch those videos. I just discovered your channel a couple weeks ago and still have a lot of catching up to do. Thanks for all the hard work.

[@OffRampTourist]

@@jakeaurod I recently found this channel too, and binged, and now am going back to better understand connections and patterns and timelines in all that is covered. Feels like studying a patchwork quilt that didn't start at a corner. So intriguing!

[@eucherenkov]

Hey Jon. Thank you for the great content. What camera do you use? Cheers

[@Crecganford]

Thank you. I usually use a Canon 250D with a 17-55mm f2.8 lens, but I have a Canon 90D I will probably start using very soon as it shoots in 4k.

[@eucherenkov]

@@Crecganford Thank you :) Keep up the fantastic work, looking forward to more videos. Thank you for putting the fruits of your academic work and education out there for others to benefit from and enjoy.

[@blakewinter1657]

Really excellent video, and I am glad to get answers to the question 'Why do good dragons go bad?'

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, and yes, many people asked that question after the last video.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Thanks for highlighting the connections between dragons and storm gods. Regarding thunder and Thor, wasn't the connection that the noise of thunder was caused by his chariot as he rode it across the sky?

[@Crecganford]

The noise of his chariot was the sound of goats, and this is actually the noise made by a Scandinavian bird as it flies, it tail vibrates in the wind making an almost bleeting sound.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

@@Crecganford That's what I get for relying on memory! 😁 Is there really no connection between the SOUND of thunder and Thor? I'm sure I remember hearing something about that, even if Thor doesn't directly control thunder directly

[@madderhat5852]

Another great video. How does someone become a god? Is there a form I can fill out? I'm willing to do it online but if I have to go all the way down to the post-office I might give it a miss.

[@Crecganford]

You just need someone to believe in you!

[@OolongTeaGreen]

Great discussion. The myth of Varuna is linked to this theme as well. It's the prelude to the Indra vs Vritra.

[@Crecganford]

I want to make a video about Varuna specifically soon. Thank you for watching.

[@Larcey]

Excellent! Thank you!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you!

[@Drbob369]

There are disturbing things at Karahan tepe that seem like sado masochism ceremonies to me. Good work!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you

[@heraclito3114]

Can you make a video about princesses/women that fall in love with a foreign hero and betray their fathers? Like Medea and Ariadne. It's a popular theme.

[@Crecganford]

I've touched on this, but not specifically. I will add this to my To Do list.

[@shehzadadarashikoh9463]

New subscriber , nice and unique content about ancient past

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.

[@jobonney7987]

OMG I've actually got a hot coffee & a spliff ready 🤣😂 Chilling in London xxx

[@Crecganford]

You probably won't jump then about a minute and a half in....

[@thefishinthepercolator3031]

It's interesting how Thor "could be his own grandfather" with a different name when you consider the fact that the world will begin again after ragnarok, like the Hindu concept of Kalpas. This cyclical nature of the world and maybe then some of it's inhabitants being reborn/reincarnated lines up pretty well with Jormungandr as an Ouroboros having killed thor itself tying him directly to the idea of both worlds and souls as eternally repeating. What I am saying is that the Norse pagans might have believed in reincarnation..

[@Crecganford]

This is really hard to answer with a yes or no, in terms of reincarnation, due to Christian corruption is much documentation. Certainly the belief in the culture suggested in the Old Norse Eddas do not suggest such a thing, just that the world will start from fresh post Ragnarǫk.

[@donnalowe9334]

I think so too which could also address why all the name changes with different lifetimes. When you connect the dots ...it adds up. There are some faiths that teach reincarnation as normal for us being Star Seeds. We would naturally have a different name each time and maybe have different gifts.

[@donnalowe9334]

Once I found this and studied it - how could this BE or even exist. When you see how it fits together but the dates are so mixed up. WHO could have painted all these and have this fit. It appears to be the same Lady with different coloring, yet the same - similar look. It seems impossible. Who were the Old Masters - why do we call them Old Masters anyway? I wonder IF it is The Goddess?The ONE in the Song of Solomon? Some sort of what...proof? Short video on u tube... Women in Art, with additional artist information Imperial Hotel Management College

[@thefishinthepercolator3031]

@@donnalowe9334 I think that if we are to take reincarnation seriously, we have to assume that the soul is timeless and therefore capable of overlapping with itself in corporeal life, executing "karmic progression" upon itself. As if a singular divinity establishes itself as innumerable archetypes, and with them "reality" unfolding, in order to reason itself out; god created man in his own image, as above so below, Samsara and Moksha; the answer is 42 and so on..

[@donnalowe9334]

@@thefishinthepercolator3031 Bingo!

[@spoodey7963]

Say, is it possible that the depiction of Dragons as huge serpents that cause fires takes its roots from observations of lightning bolts striking the earth?

[@Crecganford]

Yes, that could have been taken as an interpretation by some.

[@TheShootist]

so . . . Patrick was a storm god? Qu'est-ce que c'est? Dragons? Fin Fang Foom aka The world serpent aka Jormungand

[@eugenkt777]

you make videos like a pro wow I dont know how you dont have many more viewers

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much.

[@Mattiniord]

Lovely episode! Especially that you point out that Odin as the ruler of the northern gods was not as given as is believed today. I would say it is even less clear and some have argued that Odin as the king of the gods was mostly a west nordic thing and not even then was he considered the supreme king. Most of all, he was considered unreliable and likely to turn on his devoted follower at the drop of a hat. In that way he is compararable to Loki in many ways. In far north Hålogaland it was not even a king. According to a Saga detailing the conflict between the norwegians and the Jomsvikings the leader of Hålogakand Håkon Sigurdsson stated that they put their trust in Thorgerd Hölgabrud and Ipra. Professor in regligious history Britt-Marie Näsström have suggested that Thorgerd was a version of Freya in her role as Goddess of War joined with Thor. Or a female version of Thor. Now, Hålogaland was a region were the norse and the saamis lived together so there is alls sorts of interesting possibilites in regards to borrowing and sharing mythological motives. Anyway, at the battle of Hjörungavåg 985 the defenders were aided by Thorgerd who sent a hailstorm that blew straight into the faces of the jomsvikings who were soundly defeated. Also, in Swedish stories about about how different missionaries tried to convert the people it is Thor that is brought forth as the number one opponent. In the stories, it is clear that Thor have some serious anger management issues, but he is not omnipotent and when he wants his hammer back and tries to order Freya about she give him a fierce rebutal and Thor has to back down and most likely apologize profoundly. He has a tendensy to think act first and think later and it mess things up for him time and again. But he was at heart an honest person who stod by his word. If he did wrong he tried to make amends because it was the right thing to do. And while he indeed was quick to anger he was also able to show mercy and being generally a decent fellow. Thor gave you a second chance and he stod by his promises and if he failed to deliver he tried to make amends for that. This is more or less what has been considered honourable behaviour in historic Scandinavia. Be upfront and honest in your dealings with others, not sneaky and underhanded like Odin because that WILL come back to haunt you in the end. Still, even if he was prone to shot first and ask questions later, Thor could be very cunning if he really had to. But it was something he did when it was the best way forward in a thight spot, not as standard procedure. And this is probably why he was liked. He took on the trappings of a common person, trying to do their best, sometimes failing and even doing bad, but then being honest about it and trying to make amends and better themselves. Odin would rarely act as such. However, as most here already knows, Thor was probably the only God who would break an oath if he felt that it was needed for the greater good. When Loki went about slandering, he really encountered the fiercest responses from Skadi, who while not actually harming him there and then promised that she would deliver payback outside of the hall. But then Thor shows up and is furious with Lokis actions and sees how Loki directly abuse the peace of the hall to hurt and abuse all others. And Thor cannot stand a bully. And in the end Loki realize that he has steeped too far and leaves the hall telling Thor that he had teasted and taunted all gods and goddesses in the hall but he would not leave it before Thor alone "because I know you Will strike me in the end." Thor is one of the few gods of whom it can be said that he was truly the champion and protector of the common folks. And that may be the reason he was the one who really caused problems for the missionaries and could compete with Jesus as the truly good and honest guy. But with a hammer to back things up.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and a great comment. Odin is so complicated, built from many layers of belief, and I could talk about him a lot. But Thor is a god of the people, and that is why I think he was so popular.

[@celtofcanaanesurix2245]

I don't think any scholars would agree that Indra's name not being cognate is enough to throw doubt onto the theory of an indo-european storm god. All mythologist know that gods had many titles, and often times those titles replaced their main names, hence why Thor and Taranis are not Fjorgynn and Ercunos.

[@Crecganford]

Well, considering I am referring to academics work, this is a reflection of their view. I have referenced this in earlier videos of storm gods.

[@elainelouve]

Very interesting.:) I remember reading somewhere the Finnish god Ukko was chasing trolls with his lightning, and trolls like to hide under trees. Anyway it has similarities, though the Finnish culture isn't Indo European (and the pantheon + creation myths are different from the Scandinavian ones). Difficulty is the mythology was only written down hundreds of years later.

[@Crecganford]

That is a good point, when the culture was written down it did have Indo-European and Christian influence and so much of the early mythology is lost. I do love the Kalevala though, a marvelous poem.

[@scallopohare9431]

They may have observed animals' reaction to oncoming weather. I had a cat who would hunker down in the middle of the livingroom when a storm was approaching. Sometimes, the sky was quite clear. We moved inland 1,000 miles, and it took him several years to adjust.

[@screaminbetty1]

I'd like to know more about the Goddess Ran, is that possible?

[@christophercrystal3137]

Can you do a Phoenix/Dragon myth? Also, curious about why we don’t have a Persephone myth in the Nordics. Thanks

[@Crecganford]

Yes to all of those, and one of those is already in production, so watch this space.

[@ptrpst]

i think you could add Perseus slaying Medusa too. Except Perseus doesn't have anything to do with thunder. Perseus probably means 'to strike'. I feel like he should be connected somehow, but if so why take away the thunder element for the story? Maybe the Perseus story was a later reconstruction of the older myth but updated to include some real life events. Just speculation tho. Very interesting video!!!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, and I see Perseus more as a "warrior" version of myth, but as you point out, Greek mythology may have some very old roots and so myths would corrupt through cultural development.

[@zach415]

Perseus is the son of Zeus

[@stargatis]

I’m an adult and I’m never afraid, but last night I was walking through my neighborhood and it sounded like there was thunder coming from the ocean! I heard it three separate times and i hurried home lol

[@funkrabbit6599]

Another great video, Jon. Extremely informative. I have a question that is probably impossible to answer, given it involves ancient peoples in all different times and regions, but here I go anyway. Do we have any idea to that extent ancinet peoples considered their myths, especially ones regarding the creation of the cosmos, etc., as literal? Or did they understand that to some extent that were using imagery and symbols to make intelligble the unknown - to make sense out of something's meaning or purpose? I have in mind most specifcially Marduk and Tiamat, where Tiamat seems to both be a dragon and the sea? How is she literally both? Thanks!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you. So Tiamat has been a dragon, the sea, and a cow! And so it is challenging to prove any hypothesis, but in the time the myth was created (as opposed to told) it may well have thought to have been true. But after that point the myth would start to die as culture, beliefs and the environment changed.

[@EximiusNero]

Great video, agreed. I think you're right that ancient people used the imagery & symbolism of myths to convey their Truths, myths which, aided by their poetic language, may have multiple meanings. Tiamat was at the top of Babylonian cosmology, along with her male consort Apsu, as such she was the Mother of all Gods & Men. She mingled her waters with Apsu to start the Creation process, & in that way we can imagine her as that 'cosmic sea' in which all the stars & planets reside in. In an earlier Sumerian myth, It is Nammu who is the primeval mother of the senior gods & wakes up her son Enki, to create mankind. Enki, lord of wisdom, was also a fertility god that brought Life-giving waters & multiplied the crops & livestock. Although Enki is not actually the storm god of the pantheon, in one text the god describes himself as a storm over the Earth bringing forth great rains when he nears Heaven & a flood of carp when he nears Earth. In the same text Enki is called a dragon, indeed many of the pantheon's deities are called dragons interestingly. The word translated as dragon, 'usumgal', can also mean 'sovereign', 'lord of all', or 'monster of composite powers'. ​ @Crecganford I haven't heard of Tiamat as a cow, but it makes complete sense, considering the etymology of the word 'mother' & Latin 'matrix'. Especially then juxtaposed with the Egyptian sky goddess Nut, symbolized by a water-pot or a cow, her body overarching the universe or other celestial cow goddesses like the Indic Kamadhenu & Norse Auðumbla.

[@LadyAbstract]

Theres also evidence that yhwh was also considered a dragon deity at one point. Theres books in the old testament that talks about him flying in the air, nostrils large breathing out strong steamy air and his breath like fire. I also seen a KZbin video talking about that as well

[@Crecganford]

Yes, this would make sense although I have not read this. The Storm God was originally a dragon.

[@jameskerr8232]

Marduk is often thought to be WHYH and Marduk IS sometimes depicted as a dragon.

[@DogMechanic]

I was always under the impression that legends of Leviathan were influenced by crocodiles rather than hippos (with the "rows of shields upon it's back")- which, given they can get 20ft long, makes a perfect Earthly dragon to mythologize.

[@Crecganford]

I’m sure many of these creatures all helped influence the myth.

[@maldito_sudaka]

2:34 Tupã ❤️ And don't forget the Yoruba god Shango with his axe, very similar to Thor. And the Aztec god Tlaloc.

[@Juarqua]

This is again a very well and entertaining video! While watching it I remembered the 14th elder Fuþark rune Perþo or Perþro. Could this have originally been the link to Perkunos? Etymologically it seems much closer and this rune disappeared during the transformation into younger Fuþork (16 runes).

[@Crecganford]

That's an interesting question, however it doesn't seem to be etymologically connected, with Perþo seemingly referring to a fruit tree, possibly a pear tree.