Are PhDs a scam? Not where I expected this to go...

[@akscience9690]

Don't stop making these videos Andy, your transparency and honesty is something that is rarely seen now a days from many youtubers. People on youtube would only tell you how great their PhD was if they were successfull or how demoralizing it was, if their studies didn't meet their expectations. Love you critical analysis by the way.

[@hdavidespinosa]

I agree with what you have said. In my case, the feeling of dishonesty comes from 2 things: 1. I felt abandoned for a while, and that felt like an unfulfilled promise. 2. As an international student, I often felt as a cash cow for the uni. Not always, but often. More than scammed, I feel disappointed because I feel I paid a lot in terms of the cost of opportunity. That huge disappointment does feel scammish, but it is hard to argue I was scammed.

[@blondscientist]

I resonate with this a lot.

[@meierlinksd4996]

Another part of this problem, at least in the United States, started in the second half of the 1960s. In the 50s and early 60s, not a lot of people considered going for a doctorate. Businesses and other places would hire people right out of undergrad for a decently paid job. Also, some jobs were available even coming out of high school that you could eke out a living. However, in roughly 1965, the "scam" started. Universities were trying to hire more staff, or anticipated hiring more staff over the next five years. And these Universities started the "sell job" to more undergrads. But why push more and more people into PhDs? Because the Americans were trying to beat the Russians in their Space Programs. They needed more and more scientists and mathematicians. They needed Universities to work on various problems faster. It was an almost all-or-nothing like approach. And, in the same breath, you had the various civil rights Acts passed, so more social scientists were need now, too. However, and this is a Big "however" ... by 1971, you already had way too many doctorates made, but not nearly as much growth and positions available in the Universities. Just took five years to do a complete about-face from having too few academicians to having too many. So, even though the Universities were still selling their programs to the undergraduates, it was, to a degree, a scam already ... for jobs and positions that quickly no longer existed. And worse, I believe this is where the toxicity of modern academia that you and other talk about got ramped up as well. More people fighting for one position. More people fighting for grant money. More people fighting getting published in the same journal. Another worse part is that you are fighting over the same position with people looking for the same job 5 or 6 years before you graduated. Sadly, many people will only get to be a Lecturer or an Adjunct, if that. And yes, to a degree, it is a Pyramid Scheme with the administration being at the top and the undergraduates and graduate students being at the bottom. Universities, for a while now, need more graduates. They pay for professor's salary through tuition and other costs owed to the university. More grad students, more "butts in the seats", also means they might be able to eventually pay for an additional professor to be hired in that department. I will stop there for the moment, but yes, one can easily argue that the PhD has been a scam for decades now. And that is truly unfortunate.

[@tanned06]

It could be an institutionalized scam at some universities especially in UK where international students are charged an astronomical amount of tuition fee more than 2 times that of the local students and were almost deprived of any scholarship and funding usually accessible to the locals. Imagine a PhD graduate of humanities with such a low employment after graduation (unlike those of natural sciences which have plenty of postdocs fellowships) had to pay over 50K for tuition fee over a 3-4 year unpaid apprenticeship. And constantly they are the most marginalized and neglected group before their junior bachelor and Master's students as well as their supervisors.

[@gmoljo]

Currently trying to decide if I’ll accept my pHD offer this video was super helpful. Confirmed that I shouldn’t go with the default path.

[@indyd9322]

The biggest downside to a phd, in my opinion, is the opportunity cost. In the USA, the average time for a phd is about 5-6 years. Imagine how those 5-6 years could otherwise be spent: working full-time for 5 years in a career, starting a family, having weekends free without worrying about homework, etc. No one flat out tells you that as a phd student you're going to be a low-paid employee for the university for six years with an iffy future after that. It's not that anyone lies to you, it's just that they don't tell you what a bad deal this could be for you. They assume you know what you're going, but lots of students don't grasp the full reality of what they're embarking into.

[@jamesjarrett52]

We are here for such a short time, and many people's lives pass them by, often through no fault of their own. Doing a PhD gave a humble person like me the chance explore a subject and to actually make a contribution to knowledge through publication. I'm proud and thankful for that. No-one can take that away from me.

[@gianni_drm]

Thanks, Andy, for your great videos that have helped me so much! I'm 3 months away from submitting my thesis and jumping off this crazy roller-coaster! Pls keep up these insightful videos. 🙏🏽

[@zray2937]

I can't complain, In my Ph.D I got money right away, I didn't have to apply for funds and my advisor was quite nice. However, It is true that in general the Ph.D system is quite broken. IMHO, if a university can't offer money right away to the Ph.D student, such a university shouldn't be allowed to offer the Ph.D program at all. IMHO, people in postgraduate STEM should be told right away that most of them should strive to enter the industry as soon as possible.

[@gbyourss]

That part about 'no phd without funding' was so spot on, mate!

[@analeonescu6543]

Hi Andy! could you perhaps make a video to explain where Pi's salaries come from (and how much that is)

[@nc9922]

Hi Andy, could you make a video about how to quit strategically without burning bridges. Especially when you do not necessarily have a Plan B when de-registering but know that the PhD process has become too toxic. How do you leave without hurting your supervisor?

[@orlaskillful]

I second this, currently in this exact situation and vert unsure of how to approach the issue to my supervisory team. Very daunting prospective!!

[@bluewooda]

@@orlaskillful dear Orla, could you please tell me what is the worst thing in doing PhD. I just was accepted to a PhD but not sure if I did a right decision having an industry experience behind. What does your normal day looks like in PhD ?

[@rakshithm1257]

@@bluewooda it's going to be a nightmare! Run away as soon as you can.

[@Bread_45]

Get a plan B first. Do not mention to your supervisor at this stage. Research jobs or fields you would like to go into, try and make contacts through friends or networking events. Try to keep a circle of friends that are outside of academia as well as your academic mates. Else you can feel trapped and it's hard to get different perspectives. In the meantime, if you have issues with your PhD then it is usually best to politely but assertively "manage up" your supervisor. If you need more equipment or advice then ask for it. Either you will get the backup you need or you will get told to go away/stop bothering them. At this point your decision is made easier as to whether the PhD is salvageable. Some supervisors can be very hierarchical, but the squeaky wheel gets the oil. If it's definitely a no-win situation, then apply for jobs in your chosen plan B, eventually you will have to ask the supervisor for a reference which can cause friction as the cat is then out of the bag. But at least you've tried everything up to this point. You won't be the first person the professor has seen quit. Make sure you can state reasons for wanting a job/quitting PhD in interviews. Some people put "research assistant" rather than "PhD candidate" on their CV, this is angle shooting a little but is not untrue. Stating that you want a more commercial environment is good, many companies have an "ivory tower" view of academia.

[@portalomus]

It's worth mentioning too that even if you do get a tenure track job it can be really problematic. Tenure-track/tenured professors are increasingly experiencing burnout. Some faculty even saw their salaries cut due to declining revenues during COVID, even though they had increasing administrative workloads. Also, one thing that's a big problem in the US is that it's really difficult to get a tenure track job in any major/minor city, so you can end up getting a TT job that's in the middle of nowhere and that's considered "lucky."

[@PZJBimha]

I appreciate this honest sharing.

[@Drganguli]

The job market for PhDs is very tough especially for faculty positions. This needs to be considered by those doing PhD’s especially in liberal arts, languages and humanities

[@AnonymousAnonymous-ps5lg]

It is a scam. I wouldn't continue with my PhD studies if it's not a requirement for my academia career. I have many collegues without PhD who can think better with better practical solutions than those with PhD. Those who have PhD produces many publications but nothing translated into practical applications. It is those without PhD who are better at realising practical applications that benefit the society.

[@karieltheone]

I think this idea mainly comes from countries like the USA, where you usually have to pay for higher education, therefore degrees tend to be seen as a monetary investment. Most degrees are evaluated based on how likely are to get you a higher paying job. In that regard, yes, PhDs (specially depending on the area of study) are certainly a pyramid scam.

[@ew1usnr]

The Department at my University says: "Once you have an MA, a Ph.D. is two or three more years of coursework plus a dissertation."

[@ragpaysever2260]

Oh i wish i watched these videos before i started my phd in the uk... Its been 2 years, £52000 spent, and i want to leave. Started using depression pills too

[@OKEKOBEB]

Worst thing you can do is to do nothing and keep going. Immediately stop wasting more and losing your mental health. It doesn't matter how much you owe, with a healthy mind you can always find a way out. If you stay it's going to get a lot worse. Speaking from experience.

[@DrAndyStapleton]

I hope you are ok!

[@sunb678]

Bloody hell! Can I ask what field it's in?

[@chunnaiyamspo5062]

PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON FULL PROFESSORS WHO TAKE FIRST-AUTHORSHIPS IN PHD AND POSTDOC STUDENTS' WORK. THIS IS A HUGE SCAM IN ACADEMIA AND RESEARCH WHICH IS TOTALLY HUSHED UP AND UNADDRESSED.

[@Daniel_McDougall]

Definitely a lot to consider. I feel lucky that the path I want to take is clinical PhD in psychology. You basically do a PhD for four years but in the middle two you also do your masters. This means you finish with a doctorate but can move straight into clinical practice if you want afterwards. It’s really a best of both worlds options. Other PhDs definitely seem less connected to an industry even let alone a path forward.

[@joeboxter3635]

@9:35 - if PhD students were talent paid very little money to do research then the trade for knowledge for money could be "justified." But that's not where the "scam" occurs. In the US, PhD students are paid very little money, charged extraordinary tuition (causing debt), AND building the pyramid for the supervisor/university, while doing a lot of grunt work, eg running labs, grading papers, even errands. But let's compound this -- in the US, the goal is to protract this period by foisting more course work on you before you start any research. That's so this cheap labor can be used to educated undergraduates labs/grading time for nothing. That's the SCAM!

[@nicolasgrinberg1996]

I never found this to be the case. Most of my graduate professors asked us frequently why we want to do a phd and if we really need one for our desired career. At times, I felt I was actually being discouraged in doing a phd

[@LeggattNZ]

Totally agree. And, you must also do your research - ask other students, ask your professors about their experiences.

[@ETBrooD]

Those were some top notch professors

[@nicolasgrinberg1996]

@@ETBrooD In that sense yes. My department in university of Toronto recommends all graduate students to fill out a career plan with your prof. You don't have to do it but it's a good way to draft career goals and whether or not you need a PhD for that.

[@edhahaz]

This guy unironically pulled out the textbook definition.

[@praneeldeb2087]

I’m 23 years old currently in my final Bachelor Engineering year and I can guarantee you that phd is totally a scam, my uncle is a living example of that

[@Sal-rj2nl]

hi, can you go into details about why you think PhD is a scam? thank you very much

[@zena3413]

I feel like it is

[@Zakariah1971]

You should set up a shingle as a virtual online career coach for students interested in pursuing a STEM based PhD. $$$

[@5kamon]

I think a lot more blame belongs with the institutions than you cared to assign to them. They benefit from this, and they implemented the systemic, employment etc. changes but still keep the, now defunct, "Internship" system. That's just a predatory company. At the same time the PhD is of little to no benefit outside academia, while getting the degree interefers with a person's entering into the wider job market.

[@luisarturovaldovinosaguila3371]

About all the blah blah blah (marketing, you are smart, come to my lab to make my name better) I thought you were talking about common work... wait a minute... so you are telling me there's no real difference between labour and research... 🥲 I used to work in industry and all you have said supervisors will say, people said that to me at work...