How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec

[@DrDaveBilliards]

*Table of Contents:* - Intro [0:00] - Selecting a Cue [0:17] - CB Deflection Testing [1:05] - Aim Compensation With Sidespin [3:20] - Natural Pivot Length [4:21] - Jump Shot Comparison [7:10] - Carbon Fiber Shaft Advantages [8:12] - Revo vs. Cuetec [10:07] *Supporting Resources:* - selecting a cue: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/selecting/ - optimal cue weight: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/ - cue efficiency: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/ - cue tip hardness effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ - cue "feel," "hit," "feedback," and "playability": billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ - open bridge advantages: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bridge/open/ - squirt and swerve effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/ - squirt (cue ball deflection) testing: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/#rules - cue natural pivot length: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/ - LD shaft advantages: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#advantages - more spin with an LD shaft: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin - BHE/FHE Calibration System: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/compensation/ *NOTE CONCERNING FOLLOW-THROUGH:* During the first set of tests, hitting the CB straight up table with parallel english, my follow-through was not very straight. However, I did hit the CB accurately, with the desired tip position and in the desired direction. The crooked follow-through happened after the CB was gone, so the shots still had the desired outcome. I did some additional filming to help me diagnose what was causing the non-straight follow through. Playing the new video back in slow motion showed the cause. When the tip hits the right side of the CB, a sideways force pushes the shaft to the right against the thumb of my open bridge. Then the cue bounces to the left off the thumb causing the follow through to veer left, but the CB is long gone by the time this happens. Regardless, when I did the original filming, I did a large number of shots with each test and with each cue, and only included the shots that seemed to be the most-representative "average" shots for each, so I am confident the relative comparison is accurate. Also, for a newer video showing a collection of similar cue tests with a much more careful procedure and stroke, see my "CUE TESTING for Cue Ball Deflection, And PREDATOR REVO Carbon Fiber Shaft SIZE EFFECTS" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d52VmKyGnKyfhsk

[@zanethind]

Another great video

[@yodaman5017]

@Dr. Dave, serious question, what exactly is it that makes a shaft low deflection?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@yodaman5017 See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/cause/

[@p8ntballer322]

Dr. Dave, I must say, you are awesome. Thanks for all your hard work and your humble honesty when giving advice on this new carbon fiber trend in pool. Wishing you the best.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome ... and thank you!

[@MikeyD8632]

He is the best and a wonderful person. I highly respect him and his channel. I feel I saved a year of progress from learning so much here. Take care everyone 🙏

[@MikeyD8632]

3 days with the synergy. I couldn't be happier with the quality and performance. Much appreciated info Dr.Dave

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Carbon fiber shafts definitely offer advantages: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/

[@YPOC]

Hello Dr. Dave, it sounds like you're using a different sound sampling frequency for your voice-overs than what your camera or your video project uses. They probably use the most common 44.1 kHz and your recording of the voice-over 48 kHz. When combined this results in the crackling you can hear in a lot of your videos. You should try using the same sampling frequency for all audio recordings.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for letting me know! I've noticed this periodically and didn't know what was causing it. I hope you are correct. This should be an easy fix.

[@andrewhahn3489]

Thanks for more info than I ever thought I could learn about the game of of pool! Much respect

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you thought that was a lot of info, you should check out my website: billiards.colostate.edu/ The amount of info in this video is minuscule compared to the info available on the site.

[@johnqa]

Thanks for the video. Regarding the the follow-through. I see your grip rocking to your right, not in practice shots, but leading up to and as you strike the cue ball on the stroke, sending it off line. Then as it continues course it deflects off the thumb further as a result of the technique. Something to consider. Speed shouldn't be a factor in the deflection.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks for the input. Speed does not affect squirt, but it does affect swerve and net CB deflection (unless the cue is perfectly level, which is not possible when the cue extends over a rail). Regardless, the "natural pivot length" test starting at the 4:22 point in the video is a reliable way to compare and characterize shafts.

[@khanhtoong]

I have to say thank you so much. I have a new cutec cynergy, and it's hard to get used to it. Your clips save months for me, it's awesome. Thanks!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I’m glad to hear it. You’re welcome.

[@Chris-bm5qd]

Very timely for me as I'm in the market for a new cue. So glad you included a standard maple shaft in the analysis. Thank-you!

[@shuchengchao]

Shout out to Dr Dave for adding "according to my normal bridge length" at the end of every side-english statement. I have seen so many side spin or aiming instructions that required pivoting but totally ignoring the bridge length...

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good observation ... and thank you!

[@jamesroboyle]

Impressive video once again Dr.Dave. Appreciate the presentation of the new Carbon Fiber shafts.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks ... and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@patricksantoro2560]

Great Video Dr Dave. Good info I notice on the shots you come off your bridge hand different. Its hard to be accurate if the swing is not the same

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. See the "NOTE CONCERNING FOLLOW-THROUGH" in the video description or pinned comment.

[@danelobe2524]

I was handed a player's cue and put in a local ABC handy capped 9ball tournament. I play with a $2500 JCalaluka cue. The bet was I couldn't win matches with a cheap cue, I took it. (My Fargo is 680) I ran over and changed the tip to my hard preference. I struggled every time I spead up my arm I could miss. I won my first 2 matches in a nail bitting hill match, against players I had given the 7 and last 4 too, weeks before. Then I caught on to the deflection and squirt. Because I was looking so hard at the aiming points and cue differences, I got to a spot I didn't miss very many shots or position. I ran the tournament over. I was given the cue and the bet money, it was a great weekend. ( I still play occasionally with the cheap cue. ) great video Doc, again great information that is paramount if you want to play on the next level, you have to know this..... thanks.

[@JG-dh4pe]

Did not expect this guy to hit us with "once you go black, you will not go back" lol. Good video, thank you

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you like the video. Concerning the quote, here's a pertinent quote from the video description: "NOTE: When I used the "Once you go black, you won't go back" phrase in the video, it didn't occur to me that some people might read a racial and sexual connotations into the words. FYI, that was not my intention, and I hope it didn't offend anyone. I just think it is a cool phrase applied to carbon fiber shafts (which are black). "

[@JG-dh4pe]

@@DrDaveBilliards It doesn't offend anyone don't worry. It's just funny 😊. Keep up the good work, it's much needed and appreciated

[@WilliamSarokon]

Hey Doc. 👋🏻I've told you before and I'll say it again, You post great videos that are accurate & packed full of great true knowledge. Thank you!!!!👍🏻😉

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you again for your kind and supportive feedback ... and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@WilliamSarokon]

@@DrDaveBilliards Always & for sure kind sir!!!!!

[@glockasauruswrex6362]

Hey Dr Dave good stuff! With my P3 Revo (12.4) I noticed that I can pick my aiming point on the object ball, parallel shift a 1/2 tip of right or left hand English n the ball will go exactly there. A hit or miss usually comes down to how well I stroke the shot. For me, the carbon fiber hits solidly and accurately n gives me confidence in my shot making.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. If you are getting accurate aim with a parallel shift, you are either compensating your aim subconsciously or you are pivoting the cue slightly during the "parallel" shift. For more info and demonstrations, see my "CUE TESTING for Cue Ball Deflection, And PREDATOR REVO Carbon Fiber Shaft SIZE EFFECTS" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d52VmKyGnKyfhsk Enjoy!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

But if it works consistently, keep doing it!

[@glockasauruswrex6362]

@DrDaveBilliards well...I'm an APA 3, so I'm probably doing all of the above! 🤪 But yeah I'm fairly consistent n drill 3× weekly, play on 3 APA teams.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@glockasauruswrex6362 With small amounts of sidespin, not much correction is required; but for shots requiring more sidespin, adjustment is required. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/

[@glockasauruswrex6362]

@@DrDaveBilliards will do! And thanks again for all you do, Doc

[@TheSnookerGym]

Dave with a break cue of NP length matching my optimum bridge length and stroke speed and maximum expected cueing error (assuming still bridge hand!) there will still be slight chamges of cb oath for various off centre errors…. But i love this idea of being able to select such a break cue to reduce errors although we don’t have an equivalent requirement in snooker. Untimately, the better the player the less they need any thinking templates / training wheels as time goes on and they just compensate automatically for speed / side / distance and other sub variables like cloth / ball age / cleanliness, humidity etc

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Are you referring to slight swerve effects? These are minimized with faster break speed, where squirt is the dominant factor.

[@TheSnookerGym]

@@DrDaveBilliards Yes where there is no swerve and and only squirt? Or are you saying that with the natural pivot length on can play ANY amount of english and the cb will squirt in EXACTLY the same direction as a centre cue ball strike? It would be interesting to see a robot do a test on that and see how close the cb grouping is on head ball impact.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@TheSnookerGym That is correct. With a very-fast-speed power break, there is no swerve (only squirt). Part of the reason for this is the CB is airborne the entire way per the example here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIjOiWyAeLx2gZI So if you bridge at the natural pivot length on a power break shot, the CB should go straight regardless of the amount of spin (assuming an accurate initial alignment and a still bridge hand) per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/ The theory shows that the results might not be perfect at very large amounts of spin, but still very good: billiards.colostate.edu/technical_proofs/new/TP_B-1.pdf I would expect careful robot tests to verify this theory closely.

[@morganscott5588]

Great demonstration, found it very informative and helpful to see the differences in these cues. I will note though, and I know you know, every off center-line shot is that combination of squirt, swerve and throw, to the point, that in a particular shot under certain conditions, can cancel each other out completely, or very nearly. Swerve and throw change with table and ball conditions, which makes it even harder to come up with any 1 formula to compensate. For these reasons and more, this game will always be more about touch, feel, experience, and brain training, than about equations. If you hit enough balls, your brain starts to sub-consciously compensate, if I aim this shot this way with this English with my cue and bridge under these conditions, it will go in and the cue will go to the spot I want. :) But I do agree that understanding all of the physics can be help the brain learn how to compensate more easily if it understands why certain things react as they do.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

FYI, SAWS makes it much easier and faster to learn to aim with sidespin: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/

[@derekbatchelor4063]

I upgraded from a 314-2 shaft to the Revo and 'tooled' around with both shafts for a while. I did a similar test (note: I do not use a pivot, I find that it just takes my stroke too far out of line). When placing an object ball on the rail at the center diamond and the cue ball on the headstring, dead center of the table I found that when using maximum left or right side English, I would not only hit the ball with my Revo, I'd hit about 1/2 of it. With the 314, I would miss the ball by about an inch. I'm not sure why, but something tells me your testing is slightly off.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The amount of net CB deflection depends on the amount of sidespin (I was using close to maximum). It also depends on shot speed and distance, cloth conditions, whether or not there is any top or bottom spin, and cue elevation, all of which effect swerve (which cancels some of the squirt). The "natural pivot length" test I demonstrate is a much better way to compare shafts.

[@fendermender65]

Thank you Dave. this is by far the best explanation of the matter I have seen to date.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you. I appreciate the positive feedback.

[@diathekedriven]

Thanks Dave. Good video. I agree with your positives about the carbon shafts. Doesn't make you play like a totally new or different or amazing player, but just the smoothness of it, the feel, the ease of care, etc. make it worth it. My question is about tips on these. I have a revo, and they recommend the soft tip that it comes with. For some reason my game has grown more comfortable with a hard tip. I like the hit and feedback of the stroke and contact better. I finally broke down and had my revo soft tip changed to a Kamui clear hard, and I'm very happy with it. Have you tried different tips on the revo? How might that affect the info in the video? Thanks again!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I also prefer a harder tip ... mostly because it holds it shape better and lasts longer. Per the following video, tip hardness does not seem to affect CB deflection very much: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKmXo2OEiNirp9E FYI, more info on tip hardness effects can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#hardness

[@cakins1986]

Dave, do you change your own tips?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

No. I don't, but I should learn how some day. I know it's not that tough.

[@surfrookie1]

Thank you Dr.Dave! Another great video..

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome, and thank you! I aim to swerve. :)

[@juancarlosathome101]

THE DOCTOR!!! Thank you so much for everything you do sir! Hands down the best consistently and deeply analytical cue sports channel on YT--keep doing what you do Dr. Dave!! My question to you is also along the lines of carbon fiber shafts. I've heard mixed reviews about Meucci Cues, but they have recently come out with a new carbon fiber shaft of their own: The Meucci Carbon Fiber Pro Shaft. Would you be able to do a review video of the Revo vs. this shaft? I'm very interested to see what Meucci's new shaft has to offer, and in my opinion there is no better source for unbiased, accurate reviews. Thanks Dr. Dave! Hopefully you can do this one! :)

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for the kind words about my stuff. Sorry, but I do not have the Meucci shaft and I do not have any plans to test any other carbon fiber shafts. However, anybody with the Meucci or any other shaft can easily do the "natural pivot length" test starting at the 4:22 point in the video to evaluate and compare any shafts on their own. Also, some older data for a wide range of shafts is available here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/published-data/

[@JerryLee..]

Timeless videos Doc! Thanks

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@austinmoore1689]

Couldn’t afford them so I bought a snooker cue for my precision and draw style playing and the snooker cue was a beauty love playing with it

[@AccordionJoe1]

I use a moderately-priced wooden cue and regularly win tournaments with it. And this way, if I walk into a strange pool room and pick up a house cue off the rack, I will not have to adjust my shots to compensate for differences in deflection. And, if I were to pull out a black cue, I would have a hard time getting any locals to play for cash.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good points.

[@danebutler1908]

Whenever you get around to it it would be great if you could do a review of the TIGER Products Fortis carbon fiber shaft. Its comes in 12mm and 12.5mm but I prefer the 12mm. The people need to hear its feedback sound. It’s unlike any other carbon fiber shaft out there in terms of response and playability. Love your videos man, keep it up.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I honestly don't like doing product reviews much, but I'll keep it in mind.

[@brandonbrown9041]

Thanks I’m glad you threw in the Z2. I was about to spend $500 on a revo but not if it shoots the same as a Z

[@dustincobb5718]

I've meaning to back with you the day I argued with about the rack and spinning to balls behind eight the back middle ball is barely loose. Not enough anyone notices without looking and it makes harder to decide which side rack to break from.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm not exactly sure what point you are making or what question you are asking, but recommended racking technique can be found via the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/racking/tight/

[@dustincobb5718]

@@DrDaveBilliards it was a minor error I made about how I racked and said I got all the balls tight after. I forgot all but the middle back ball. You said you choice which side to break from by whether the outside line of balls had the most loose ones. Anyways you were right. I made a point to say spinning two balls behind eight kept rack tight and I forgot one ball was loose.

[@dustincobb5718]

@@DrDaveBilliards You should try one yror two before you can't play anymore to have sponsors see if you can make a world tournament etc or get close to qualifying. In something that you'll never forget. Knowledge is most of the battle and practice time. Your a great pool mind. If your eyes will let you be nice to see you really compete again before you quit.

[@erickort1987]

jacoby is coming out with a carbon fiber shaft,no ping noise,this january you can preorder..available to the public may

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks for the info. I personally don't care how a cue sounds. I just care where the CB goes ... and with an expected amount of CB deflection that is not too large.

[@ryanhough2771]

Can’t wait for the jacoby keep hearing it has the best taper yet, and top pros like Dennis are always looking for that right sound in a shaft and butt, but to each their own.

[@erickort1987]

@@ryanhough2771 my local buddy is a jacoby dealer,he gets first hands,hes taking it to a state pool tournament,i bought the pro ultra shaft from him,he said jacoby sold over 300 ultra shafts early in the year of 2018

[@brandonshinn8300]

@@ryanhough2771 Personally tested the Jacoby Carbon myself and I don't know how anything beats it! 8 foot shots straight in diagonal to the pocket and could get anything I wanted out of the cue ball. It was amazing

[@PrimitiveJoe766]

I to have a Z2, and thinking if, I need a revo. After watching this, no way... You saved me of thinking like that. I use gold masters chalk, to keep a clean looking stick.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I am happy with my switch from the Z2 to the Revo. I didn't need to change how I aimed with sidespin, and I like the advantages of carbon fiber: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/

[@Miamiz24]

Back in 2016 at The APA world pool championships, tested a prototype of that Revo shaft, and while it wasn't bad by no means,just not fan on 13mm tips,i went to the OB booth and tested an ob2+ and between the 2 i would've picked the Ob ,my opinion just feels far better, now as for predator a 314 is an excellent choice too!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I played with the Z-2 for many, many years and got very accustomed to the 11.75mm tip. When I switched to the 12.4 mm Revo (I preferred it over the 12.9), it seemed huge at first, but I've grown to like it better than the 11.75 mm tip.

[@cristianmunteanu8765]

I played with a 314-3 tuned by seyberts to 12.5mm pro taper with a kamui clear black soft tip. It has lower deflection than the normal 12.75mm. I loved it. The feel is great. I upgraded to revo 12.4mm. If you like wooden shafts I reccomend the 314-3 seyberts tuned. All the best! 😉

[@charlotte240]

Impossible. The only 'tuned' shaft that Seybert's offers is the Predator Z , they don't offer pro-taper tuning on any 314. I know because I bought 2 Z3 tuned shafts. Check their website.

[@ronmucci3331]

Could you do another video with a Revo vs Jacoby Black....that would be very cool. Thanks Dr. Dave.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don’t have plans to test any more shafts, but anybody can easily and accurately test and compare any shafts on their own using the simple procedure in my new cue testing video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d52VmKyGnKyfhsk

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Since many people have commented on my poor follow-through during the first set of tests in the video, I've added the following to the video description: NOTE CONCERNING FOLLOW-THROUGH: During the first set of tests, hitting the CB straight up table with parallel english, my follow-through was not very straight. However, I think I hit the CB accurately, with the desired tip position and in the desired direction. The crooked follow-through happened mostly after the CB was gone, so the shots still had the desired outcome. Also, when I did the filming, I did a large number of shots with each test and with each cue, and only included the shots that seemed to be the most-representative "average" shots for each, so I am fairly confident the relative comparison is accurate (i.e., my stroke might have been bad, but I think it was bad in a consistent way for the shots I included in the video). Regardless, the "natural pivot length" tests starting at the 4:22 point in the video provide a much more reliable way to test and compare shafts, so please refer to that instead. Nonetheless, the results of the two sets of tests were consistent with each other.

[@soufianezakraoui3830]

العربية شكرا

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Update Concerning Follow Through: I did some additional filming to help me diagnose what was causing the non-straight follow through, and I finally figured out what was causing it (after playing the video back in slow motion). When the tip hits the right side of the CB, a sideways force pushes the shaft to the right against the thumb of my open bridge. Then the cue bounces to the left off the thumb causing the follow through to veer left, but the CB is long gone by the time this happens.

[@JohnJohnson-zq9rg]

Your stroke is inconsistent. So outcome of your research is questionable. Hope you will make a better test. I love your work and passion for the game.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@JohnJohnson-zq9rg See the pertinent notes in the video description. For convenience, here they are: NOTE CONCERNING FOLLOW-THROUGH: During the first set of tests, hitting the CB straight up table with parallel english, my follow-through was not very straight. However, I think I hit the CB accurately, with the desired tip position and in the desired direction. The crooked follow-through happened mostly after the CB was gone, so the shots still had the desired outcome. Also, when I did the filming, I did a large number of shots with each test and with each cue, and only included the shots that seemed to be the most-representative "average" shots for each, so I am fairly confident the relative comparison is accurate (i.e., my stroke might have been bad, but I think it was bad in a consistent way for the shots I included in the video). Regardless, the "natural pivot length" tests starting at the 4:22 point in the video provide a much more reliable way to test and compare shafts, so please refer to that instead. Nonetheless, the results of the two sets of tests were consistent with each other. UPDATE CONCERNING FOLLOW-THROUGH: I did some additional filming to help me diagnose what was causing the non-straight follow through, and I finally figured out what was causing it (after playing the video back in slow motion). When the tip hits the right side of the CB, a sideways force pushes the shaft to the right against the thumb of my open bridge. Then the cue bounces to the left off the thumb causing the follow through to veer left, but the CB is long gone by the time this happens.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@jaareda9940 If you or any others doubts my natural pivot length measurements, you can easily do the natural pivot length test (starting at the 4:22 point in the video) on your own to compare any cues. If you do the tests carefully, I am confident you will come up with the same numbers I got. I repeated the tests much more carefully while filming my recent SAWS video (drdavebilliards.com/saws/), and I got the same numbers.

[@CocoboloCowboy]

This was very informative, I leaned a lot.👍

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad to hear it.

[@johnwalding9457]

Thanks for doing this topic .

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@EynkiYoom]

Dave, you are by far the most pleasant guy to listen to. Not only informative, but I always feel that youre fully objective. To be honest, I watched a video about the revo 12.4 and 12.9 by that Thai girl... And figured that she's placing the cue ball in different positions in order to sell the idea of the LD of the Revo, and it was pretty lame. After watching your video abut the Revo, I think they should thank you. P.S I'd love to watch a thorough explanation of how to "get rid" of chicken wing problems when trying to drop the elbow to get more action on the cue ball. It seems my elbow always pops out when I try to drop it. :/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for the positive comments. Concerning elbow drop, most people tend to chicken wing the elbow out when they drop it. That's why it is generally recommended to keep the elbow as still as possible, even on power shots (the power break excluded). FYI, I have lots of info and videos related to this topic here: billiards.colostate.edu/threads/stroke.html#elbow

[@cakins1986]

Levy, it's because of your stance. You aren't standing sideways enough. A lot of players get a chicken wing arm position when they get down really low to the cue, and it's because their elbows have nowhere to go but outward because their bodies are crowding the shot line. The same thing happens with an elbow drop. If you are standing sideways enough with your back foot on the shot line (preferably with the shot line running through your toes/ball of your foot), your elbow will have clearance to drop without chicken winging outward.

[@EynkiYoom]

I do have a snooker stance. (One leg is straight, one leg is bent).. Thank you..

[@Ocean8881]

Hi Dr Dave!! I really enjoy your instructional videos and really learned a lot from them. I started playing pool at relatively advanced age but because of my will power and determination which I have learned as a musician l am doing ok . I am currently pretty sad because I do not own a table and can not practice my drills because of the Corona virus pandemic. I have been shooting through a bottle to help improve my stroke. I also used an iPad to video tape and noticed that I am dropping my elbow unintentionally. Is there anything you can recommend that can be done away from a pool table and also to help improve the pendulum swing? thanks for your time!! and Stay Safe!!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

eddyb For advice on how to work on your game without a table, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/practicing-with-no-table/ For advice on how to reduce or eliminate elbow drop, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/elbow-drop/

[@larrypoglitsch3059]

Excellent video as usual Dr. Dave. Can you provide the Revo shaft length and tip diameter used in this video? I am also using a Z2 shaft and want to purchase a graphite shaft with similar characteristics.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It is a 12.4 Revo with the standard shaft length.

[@larrypoglitsch3059]

@@DrDaveBilliards After comparing many reviews, I decided to purchase the Cuetec CT-15K based on the slimmer taper and lower price point than the Revo. I was pleasantly surprised to experience significant increase in energy transfer over the Predator Z2 shaft, with greater action in draw/follow shots. As noted in many reviews, the feel of the Cuetec shaft is very similar to wood shaft, and I am very pleased with my $400 investment.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@larrypoglitsch3059 Thanks for the testimonial.

[@shadmonk]

you are the best!. i was expecting CF to have much less deflection. would there be a very big difference between 314-2 and revo for example?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The Revo matches the Z2 CB deflection exactly. I think the 314-2 CB deflection is also similar.

[@julesfadel]

Great video! just need to know if you're using the 12.4 or the 12.9 revo shaft, cause it makes a lot of difference concerning the deflection and squirt of the cueball.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

12.4.

[@stevegunn9971]

@@DrDaveBilliards Which shaft diameter would create more squirt, the 12.4 or the 12.9 Revo. Thanks!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@stevegunn9971 I have heard they have the same CB deflection; but in general, a larger shaft will have more CB deflection. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/endmass/

[@stevegunn9971]

@@DrDaveBilliards Great, thanks! I have a 12.4 Revo and have been curious about the larger 12.9.

[@JerryLee..]

Doc, studied at this video a few times and forwarded it. *Question: Have you compared the effect on natural bridge length of different shaft diameters of the same manufacturer* ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

... only for the Predator Revo series. See: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d52VmKyGnKyfhsk

[@DrDevon23]

Whether or not people people prefer a carbon fiber shaft for their playing cue, I think carbon fiber makes the most sense for a jump and/or break cue. Especially the break cue. Delivering more power to the balls with the same amount of effort seems like a nice trait of a break cue. The other benefits like durability and ability to clean certainly make the idea attractive.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

For a break cue, the tip (phenolic vs. leather) is just as important (if not more important) than the shaft, concerning hit efficiency. I certainly like a carbon fiber for my playing cue, based on the advantages listed in the video.

[@DrDevon23]

@@DrDaveBilliards Ah yes that makes sense. Especially after watching your hit efficiency video. Coincidentally I recently learned about coefficient of restitution in my Dynamics class. The more I learn about engineering the more I can appreciate pool. Thanks for the quality content!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@DrDevon23 After your Dynamics class, you should be able to follow most of my pool physics and math analyses here: billiards.colostate.edu/technical_proofs Both School and Pool are Cool!

[@Tedsterslab]

Dr dave.. Could you do a review or tell us why Southwest cues are so expensive and sought-after.. They cost 6-8 times more than lets say a predator cue. I also heard that there is a 13year waiting list to get the cue.. Thanks.. I enjoy your videos..

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm not much of a cue collector or appreciator. I don't care if they are custom or not, and I don't care how they look or feel or sound. If the CB goes where I aim aiming with an amount of CB deflection that I expect, nothing else matters to me. Therefore, I am probably not the best person to do cue "reviews."

[@alphacapo]

People get better after buying a LD Shaft because they just invested a bunch of money and tend to practice more. Because they have dedicated themselves....they get better. If they woulda got a 35$ replacement shaft off ebay and practiced the same as they did when they bought the LD. RESULTS WOULD BE JUST AS GOOD. save your money folks and practice. Don't use systems or spend tons of money on equipment. Just practice!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I mostly agree in general, but an LD shaft does offer advantages to some people: billiards.colostate.edu/FAQ/cue/low-squirt/#advantages

[@kachler67]

Hello Dr. Dave, first of all great video, but even a greater website with some proper knowledge. As a snooker player, I'm interested if you think a CF cue would also make sense for snooker (with a much slimmer taper and tip sizes of 8.75-10mm). As I saw, the main mechanism behind LD is the lower end mass, which has been adressed lately by using thin walled titanium ferrules instead of brass with great success. Nevertheless, there don't seem to be any CF cues around and I would like to know if this has some physical background or if you think this is down to "traditionalism"/economical reasons (smaller market, ...). Is the end mass of the wood maybe so insignificant because of the lower diameter, that only the ferrule is of interest here? The resilience advantages you mentioned would be at least very nice. Cheers and keep it up :)

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I think CF will also appear in the snooker world at some point. The same advantages in pool will apply to snooker also. I suspect the biggest obstacle is custom and tradition, not market size.

[@dustincobb5718]

@@DrDaveBilliards I disagree with you this time. I think the low deflection helps people that have quit for awhile adjust faster to less deflection and get they're game back quicker. I also think it allows lesser unexperienced players. To learn English faster and not have to use as much skill while learning to get better. I think English is nicer than a kielwood etc. Most people I know prefer cuetech cynergy as a majority, but in my opinion the pechauer rogue with a medium soft tip is the best shaft on the market plus they go to 30 inches and have their own unique lock I believe or any lock you want to fit about any butt. For only$ 475.00 also it has 11.8 12..4 and 12.8or nine I think shaft diameter choices. . I prefer a 11.8 and use a jump/break cue with a medium regular tip you put on a shooting cue. Your right everyone can eventually adjust I just think ld brings your adjustments along faster. I never believed it till I tried the pechauer/other carbon fibers. The Revo sucks compared to the pechauer with same tip. Seems like a sponsor ad almost the majority choose cuetech cynergy in my opinion after playing with both awhile.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@dustincobb5718 A LD shaft definitely offers advantages: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#advantages

[@fredkapp498]

For a decent player upgrading to low deflection would you recommend spending difference on revo or cuetec carbon as opposed to like. In other words best low deflection under $200.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

There are advantages to an LD shaft. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#advantages But I honestly think it doesn't matter for most players. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/selecting/ But if you think one cue is better than another, that alone might help you play better. The mind is a powerful thing.

[@bhirsch100]

DrDave, thanks. I use a standard deflection cue. It looks like a 5280 spider, but without the 5280 label. Anyway, I play every day, and in BCA league. I have essential tremor, a genetic condition that causes my hands to shake. It gets increasingly worse with age, and I'm 73 now. I compensate by having a pint of beer before playing, and using a shorter bridge. I was thinking of getting a ld carbon fiber shaft, but after viewing this video I'm thinking with my shorter bridge it could make things worse. As is, I'm really good at fine cuts, even on long shots. I'm terrible at shooting over a ball because my bridge hand shakes when elevated from the table. On other shots, to minimize the effect of my right elbow shaking left and right I just take practice strokes until I feel steady. Any suggestions?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@bhirsch100 An LD shaft is not a good choice for a short bridge, especially if the tremor affects stroke straightness. It is better to have a cue with a natural pivot length better matched to your bridge length. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/

[@allstar1336]

I took the time to test the bridge length on my cue for BHE and once i had it dialed in i actually put a small dot on the shaft with a sharpie. Now when i need to use a lot of English on close to medium shots its very easy to aim. Helps the confidence a bit as well because i dont need to keep retesting to make sure im at the right bridge length

[@internetcrap7]

Nice idea! Ima steak it

[@nodnalneyugn8753]

dr. do you have any advice and tips for picking a pool cue for beginners. This video is very informative, but it doesn’t apply to beginners like me. could you please make a video on criteria’s for choosing pool cues for beginners?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/selecting/

[@nodnalneyugn8753]

@@DrDaveBilliards thank you Dr. Dave. Thank you for sharing your knowledge of pool with the world. Do you have instructional DVDs that teaches beginners every step on playing pool?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@nodnalneyugn8753 I offer a discounted "Beginner Package" including my stuff best suited for beginners (TIPOPAB, BU, HAPS). For more info, see: drdavebilliards.com/products/info-advice/

[@IFranchisedI]

Dr Dave I’ve been reading through the articles and FAQ on your website and I have a question about effective end mass of a cue. Am I understanding correct that if you have two cues with identical end mass at the tip end, that if one has more lateral flex than the other then that cue with more flex will actually have less effective end mass because the transverse vibration wave will not travel as far and as fast than its stiffer counterpart? Because if I am understanding the data on your site correctly you are effectively saying a cue that is more whippy at the tip end has less effective end mass and therefore lower squirt as long as you’re comparing it to a shaft with identical size and weight. Like if the Revo shaft actually had more transverse flex than it does it would theoretically have less squirt than the z2? But since it is stiffer it has more effective end mass than one would think given that it has less physical end mass than the z2? I pose this question because there are many people in the snooker community who say a stiffer shaft with low end mass has less squirt than a whippy shaft with low end mass so I am hoping you can help me solve this debate. Thanks

[@DrDaveBilliards]

That is correct. If you increase the lateral stiffness, the effective “end mass” will increase. Those who need convincing can read all the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/endmass/

[@IFranchisedI]

DrDaveBilliards wow you are quick thank you. Is there any data to suggest that transverse flex is pretty negligible to end mass if you’re comparing nearly identical shaft specs? Most decent snooker cues are made from solid white ash and have super low density and pretty low end mass however there are some, especially if you kiln dry the shaft for a couple months or years, that can have very very low end mass and also get stiffer during the process. I wonder if there’s any data out there to compare the difference between a stiff dried out shaft verses a whippy ‘green’ shaft?

[@IFranchisedI]

DrDaveBilliards I just think the theory of effective verses physical end mass is quite interesting. Wouldn’t a shaft with a straight taper have a faster and longer transverse vibration wave than a shaft with a conical taper as long as you’re comparing two shafts of similar flex, weight, size and density? How negligible is that squirt discrepancy? Or can there be scenarios where it’s significant to notice?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don't know of any such data. Drying the wood and reducing the moisture content and density would definitely reduce endmass and the amount of CB deflection. I would think any resulting changes in stiffness would have a much smaller effect. In my experience, the "whippy-ness" of a shaft is mostly a subjective judgement based on the sound and feel of the hit. For related info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Concerning conical vs. straight taper, I think any stiffness effects are small compared to mass distribution effects. The mass closest to the tip has the greatest effect on squirt, so a conical taper will produce less squirt in your comparison since the conical taper has less mass close to the tip. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/cause/ Also check out Diagram 1 and the surrounding discussion here: billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2008/aug08.pdf Enjoy!

[@TM-bd7nf]

Thank you for another helpful video.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You’re welcome. FYI, I have more videos on this topic here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/ Enjoy!

[@TM-bd7nf]

@@DrDaveBilliards for now am watching the videos that addresses my biggest weaknesses and shortcomings. And practicing the drills you give me. Three of your videos alone have given me over $1000 in value. Now, when I do spend the money for one on one lessons, I will benefit more from them because I took the time to learn the fundamentals taught in these videos. Thank you.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@TM-bd7nf You’re welcome.

[@MagicMikeBilliards]

Dr dave can PLEASE do a video explaining the science of having a lighter (17-18oz) vs heavier (20-24oz+) cue. Which can generate more spin, speed, accuracy. Which one is better/more effective etc? A lot of people would benefit from this kind of info including myself!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

FYI, I cover this topic in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/

[@MagicMikeBilliards]

@@DrDaveBilliards I just got done reading this. What do you think contributes more to spin (more rotations) on the cue ball? A 24oz cue so you stroke slower, smoother and more accurately with more mass? OR a 17oz cue that you can stroke faster (with more cue speed) but with less mass? What would give a better result for a full table length draw shot? A lighter or heavier cue?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@MagicMikeBilliards As explained on the resource page, the answers to these questions depend on the person. In general, a lighter or heavier cue cannot put more spin on the CB. See the info and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/maximum/ Concerning the effect of cue weight on getting more draw, see the info and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/cue-weight-effects/ Honestly, the cue weight doesn't make a big difference unless you are using something much too light or much to heavy for you as an individual.

[@MagicMikeBilliards]

@@DrDaveBilliards This answered all my questions. Thank you sir!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@MagicMikeBilliards I'm glad to hear it. You're welcome!

[@alexandergavrilenko7464]

thank you Dr. Dave !!!!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome!!! I aim to swerve. :)

[@philipv.mcharris5010]

Hi Dr. Dave, great video! I bought a CF shaft after watching this video and think I may have hit it or dropped it on something. It has a very small scratch (probably the size of 1mm or 2mm) and I thought they were pretty scratch resistant. If a CF shaft gets scratched in a minor way, would it likely effect game play / mean something is wrong with the shaft? Or is it just difficult but not impossible for CF shafts to scratch, so just a non-significant part of wear and tear? Thank you!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

A CF shaft is less likely to scratch, but almost anything can be scratched. I wouldn't worry about it. It certainly won't affect performance. If the feel bothers you in your bridge, you can lightly sand the scratch smoother with with fine-grit paper.

[@philipv.mcharris5010]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you, Dr. Dave! It is on the lower portion of the shaft by the joint, so it doesn't bother my bridge at all. Now that I know the integrity of the shaft isn't compromised in any way and performance isn't affected, I won't worry about it! My knowledge about pool has increased so much from your content! Thank you!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@philipv.mcharris5010 I'm glad to hear it. You're welcome! Continued good luck with your game!

[@l1ghtnisnisnat]

Hey Dr. Dave! Are graphite cues good or bad?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

"Graphite" is just another name for "carbon fiber." They are good, per the advantages listed here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/

[@zanethind]

Dr Dave you're the best

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks.

[@zanethind]

@@DrDaveBilliards you're welcome

[@saadrahman3206]

Hi Dr Dave. What is the range I should use when looking for a pool cue tip for 8 ball pool. Should I find a tip that is between 12-13mm? Should I stay in that range or is a tip smaller than 12mm ok to use for pool? Also what's your opinion on the best type of tip. Is it better to use soft, medium or hard tip?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ although, the preferred diameter is mostly a personal choice. See also: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@VetteWay2Fast]

Could we get a Mezz ignite comparison to the revo and cynergy? Everyone I’ve talked to and plays with one, including myself, love the hit and power of the ignite. Cynergy is nice and revo was a bit hollow sounding to me. Have all 3 and while great shafts, loving the ignite but would be curious to see an actual test.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Anybody can easily test and compare any shafts on their own using the simple procedure in the first video here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/published-data/

[@VetteWay2Fast]

That is true, however, I’m sure others would like to see it as well. A head to head flowers, revo, cynergy, bull and ignite would be a popular video! Could maybe borrow some for the test if you don’t have them on hand?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@VetteWay2Fast I don’t plan to do any more cue testing videos in the foreseeable future, but I will keep it in mind. However, I don’t place much importance on the sound or feel of a cue’s hit. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ Also, using SAWS, I can aim just as accurately with any cue. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/

[@VetteWay2Fast]

I understand, bummer though as there is not a video that compares all the major carbons in deflection as they all claim “to be the lowest deflection and revolutionary”. Would get a million plus views within months I’m sure :)

[@stephenmarian7097]

Dr. Dave your deflection test, how far behind do you think a Predator 314-3 would be? Have you tried one before? I was curious if you were playing a 314-3 compared to your revo would it make a difference in your game? My guess is probably not what is your thoughts? Stephen

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don’t have a 314-3, but I suspect it would be similar. Regardless, if I changed shafts, I would just need to redo my SAWS calibration, and then my play should be no different (even if the shafts had different CB deflection characteristics).

[@saadrahman3206]

Hi Dr Dave, what is the name of the playing cue you use as of March 2022? Also does your playing cue have a hard, medium or soft tip?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm still using the Predator P3 with a 12.4 Revo shaft with a Triangle tip (medium hard). I generally prefer a harder tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

[@marerie]

With the straight on camera view starting at 1:07, would you prefer your right shoulder to be more over the top of the cue? Probably not ideal to be asking mechanic questions on a deflection video, but I keep searching and can't find anyone discussing this issue with the straight on view like 1:07 shows. By pulling the right shoulder back and rotating your torso to the right a little (kind of feels like the motion of drawing a bow) you can position your right shoulder directly over the cue, but I can't tell if this would be ideal or not.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

That is what I used to do (because it is recommended "textbook" fundamentals), but it caused neck strain for me, and it made it difficult to get my face square and eyes level with my "vision center" in the right place (which is much more important). Also, as long as you keep your upper arm and shoulder joint still, they have little effect on the pendulum motion of the forearm, assuming the forearm is in the vertical plane of the cue, hanging straight down.

[@marerie]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@marerie You're welcome!

[@robertgomez7229]

Dr dave is a revo worth the money how do you feel about choosing an r360 cuetech compared to a meucci u say better sticks dont matter as to how good a person shoots what makes the biggest difference is it practice or knowledge or talent or all of the above you are very knowledgeable i apreciate any feedback thanks

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Robert Gomez Any good player can play well with any cue of any brand or type after they get accustomed to the amount of CB deflection. Having said that, there are advantages to LD shafts: billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#advantages And as I summarize in the video, carbon fiber also has advantages. Whether this stuff is worth the money or not depends on how much you are able and willing to pay.

[@IndianHeathen1982]

How about jump cues? I recently got the Cuetec Propel. I like it but I don't find it any easier to jump compared with my old jump cue. Yes, it's been a while since I played due to lockdowns but I feel that I could jump easier with my old Jump break cue which admittedly was heavier. Everyone says it is easier to jump with a lighter cue like Cuetec propel but I find very little difference. Granted it's been a while, so it could be because I've been getting back to pool. What are your thoughts on this? I read your article about break cues (lighter vs heavier) and I suspect it would be the same for jump cues right? A heavier jump cue would be better in fact compared to a lighter one (because for the same speed greater momentum, and it probably does not make too much difference in speed generation vis a vis light vs jump cue)?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

In general, a lighter jump cue is better for more people, but it depends on the person and their jump-shot technique (and muscle physiology). See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/jump/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/ Enjoy!

[@IndianHeathen1982]

@@DrDaveBilliards does this mean I have to throw away my Cuetec propel? :( I paid a lot of money for it and I'm disheartened now. I guess I could get used to it.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@IndianHeathen1982 I would practice some with the Cuetec to see if you can adjust to the different weight. You might end up liking it better. If not, there is nothing wrong with sticking with what works and selling the Cuetec.

[@IndianHeathen1982]

@@DrDaveBilliards perfect and sound advice!

[@davids11131113]

I recently got the Cuetec Ghost it’s great.

[@DelbertTWEEDIE]

Thanks Dave that tells me a lot.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I’m glad you found it helpful.

[@burtyful1]

Cue balance (front to back), diameter (shaft and butt), and length WILL make significant difference. Finding the right combo that complements your stroke is a critical factor in increasing your level of confidence with the cue. One major disadvantage of carbon fiber shafts, compared to wood, is not being able to customize the diameter and taper off the shaft.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

That stuff doesn't really matter to me, but some people do place importance in this stuff. The balance point can certainly be an issue for someone who is very short, with their grip hand far up on the cue (where the shaft can lift off an open bridge).

[@DrDaveBilliards]

With an open bridge (which I use), the shaft diameter or taper is not really important. Although, when one changes to a shaft of a different diameter, one might need to re-practice visualizing the tip contact point on the ball (to apply side accurately), especially if they use "tip of english," per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/threads/english.html#tips

[@michaelmalvin8990]

Do you feel that playing with a very narrow tip (11.8 Revo) might be a little easier to adjust to with a nickel shape vs dime. I’ve played with dime shape on wider tips but I’m wondering if the smaller surface area might be a reason to consider the wider shape. Thanks in advance.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I see no reason to change tip shape on a smaller-diameter shaft. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

[@BradEnquist]

I'm a big fan of Dave's but what's up with the cue alignment after each shot that's suppose to be parallel? The cue appears to swerve over in the direction of the massive deflection.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See the “NOTE CONCERNING FOLLOW THROUGH” in the video description or pinned comment.

[@andrewshaker12]

Hey Dr. Dave, what’s your thoughts about the mezz ignite shaft compared to the revo?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Sorry, but I haven't tried it. Although, all I really care about is if the amount of CB deflection is the same as what I am used to. Everything I've tried so far has more CB deflection than the Revo.

[@MrBobZack]

Have you tried a less expensive XLR8 carbon fiber shaft ? I paid $249 and it’s excellent with or without white ferrule (1/2 “or 1/4 “ )and shaft (12.4 or 12.8mm.). They will make it to your request. It’s as good as carbon fiber gets.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I have not. Thanks for the info.

[@derekloria3105]

Thank you for all of your videos . I appreciate the way you break the game and you've helped me a lot on my game . I Have a Predator P3 with the Revo shaft and wondering if you play at home on your own pool table everyday do you take apart your predator que after use of store in on a wall rack . Only reason im asking is thats a lot more handling on the cue if its not needed ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I only break down my cue when I play elsewhere. Otherwise, it stays assembled laying on a table or against a wall guide I have.

[@johnevans1453]

I've always used a hard tip. Is there a reason the Carbon fibers come with soft tips? Can you think of any reason installing a hard tip would be detrimental to the functionality of carbon fiber shafts? Thanks Dave! Great content as always. 🙂

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I prefer a hard tip on any shaft, including CF, for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ There is no detriment unless you care about the sound or "feel" being different than what you are used to. For more info on this, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/

[@millionairejh]

Hey Dave, there are also some disadvantages to the Revo shaft. I believe since the material is so hard that it prevents scratches, it is also more brittle than and wooden shaft, spliced or full maple. I broke a revo once from hitting it on the edge of a table leg. it snapped the shaft right in the center. This same type of strike has never broken a wooden shaft for me, just left dings. But i still prefer the Revo tho.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks for the info. I wonder if your Revo had a manufacturing defect, because I wouldn't expect this to happen. The carbon fiber is very strong and tough. You should see some of the rock hits my carbon fiber mountain bike has taken over the years. But having said all of this, you are correct that carbon fiber can be brittle with certain types of impact.

[@marcusvaldes]

As a certified aircraft mechanic with some carbon fiber experience, one of the properties of it is that it is super strong right up to the point of failure at which point it pretty much disintegrates!

[@stevegunn9971]

If all other factors are equal, it seems a softer tip would create less squirt than a harder one due to the softer tip "grabbing" the CB better. Then again, as long as the tip is properly chalked, thus no miscue, maybe the "grab" will be equal. Any thoughts on that?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

FYI, this topic is covered in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Check it out.

[@stevegunn9971]

@@DrDaveBilliards Very informative link, thanks!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@stevegunn9971 You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@warrente66]

can you do a mezz ignite comparison with revo and cynergy

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don't have any plans to do any more testing, but anybody can easily do tests and comparisons on their own using the procedure demonstrated here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/

[@tweeee100]

Its all the same shit,,,,, and over priced shit for that matter. Our dumbasses are supporting this marketing scheme. Yea the carbons are good but not that good, not 3 4 5 hundred a shaft good

[@rocketceo]

Here's one huge disadvantage of carbon fiber (CF) shafts not mentioned in your video, or surprisingly in any of the comments. To me it is the largest disadvantage of all, and the killer reason I did not switch when the Revo first came out. As both a serious pool and 3-cushion player, there are many more shots in 3-C requiring one to "penetrate," and go through the ball (3/4 ball hit vs 1/4 ball hit). Force follows are a good example. 3-C players go "through" the ball (fuller hits) much more often than pool players, who tend to use a thin hit to go in the same direction. In short, the Revo has horrible penetration, and I probably get perhaps 70-80% of the "action" when going through the ball. That's HUGE!! Many, if not most, of the stroke shots I make on my channel videos would literally be impossible with a Revo. This effectively means that to go the same distance with a force follow shot --- which is necessary at times in pool as well --- one has to hit the cue ball much harder, which is very undesirable. I almost always prefer to go where I need to with "stroke" rather than "power." Force follow shots are often necessary when one has to drive the CB over a table length for position, and the stiff Revo deadens the stroke, and significantly kills some of the action. After extensively and carefully testing the Revo's force follow in comparison with my wood low-deflection (LD) shaft (a Tiger X-Pro), the Revo's sharp reduction in action was an automatic deal-breaker. I thus never got around to comparing power draws, but I strongly suspect the same result would occur. Why test with force follows? It's an extreme, which is how many math problems are solved. You can see the differences easier. I believe this same reduction in action happens with many ordinary follow or draw shots, but the difference is so slight people just don't see it. Of course there should be no difference for slow naturally rolling shots, but with any firmer hit, with a cue ball hit more than one tip off-center (in any direction), you want the cue ball to "take" the stroke and action you give it. Revos simply dampen your stroke. The Revo's hit even feels a bit numbing, if that makes sense, which is consistent with its deadened effect.. Note that ALL LD shafts, wood or CF, have significantly less penetration (and therefore action) than the standard wood shafts I used for decades (Schon for pool, Schuler for 3-C). My Tiger "carom" LD shaft (a Carom X-Pro) has perhaps 15% less action than my standard Schuler shaft, and my Tiger "pool" LD shaft has perhaps 10% less than my standard Schon shaft. I'm NOT knocking Tiger here, which makes great shafts --- ALL wood LD shafts, from anybody, have increased stiffness and lower end-mass, which unavoidably kills some action. I think this is something that should DEFINITELY be mentioned if you do a follow-up video. I think this is why many pros are going back to using standard Canadian maple shafts. One can learn to adjust for squirt with any standard shaft (although it's admittedly harder), but you just CAN'T recover from the substantial loss of action (and feel) of CF shafts with an adjustment. For me, a wood LD shaft is the best compromise, and generally what I recommend to students and those who seek my opinion. Wood LD shafts have a modest decrease in action from a standard shaft, but there is a larger advantage in making English shots much easier. CF shafts, with a SECOND step-down in loss of action, are just a giant step too far. I suspect many pros feel the same way, as very few of them have switched to CF, and the Revo has been out for some time now. CF shafts have the niceties you mention for convenience, but I'm unwilling to trade those for decreased playability. My Schon shafts are over 30 years old, and straight as an arrow. If you buy decent shafts where the wood has been aged (another important point to mention in selecting a cue), avoid temperature extremes, and store your cue properly, warping should only be a very rare problem. To keep my stroke and penetration, I'll go through the annoyance of cleaning my shaft, and working out the occasional ding, all day long.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don't have any problem executing force follow or power draw shots with my Revo, but maybe I'm more used to it than you were when you tried it out. Concerning pool pros, many have already switched to CF, and I suspect many more will as time goes on and as more CF options hit the market (which will happen soon).

[@rocketceo]

First, let me say I have tremendous respect for you, your work on behalf of our community, and your site, which is far and away the best resource for pool instruction since the works of the late Bob Byrne. Thank you and God Bless You, sir! I will smile with appreciation when you (and Bob Jewett) are eventually voted into our Hall of Fame for meritorious service. I also don't have any problem executing force follows with the Revo. My point was that COMPARATIVELY, the exact same amount of stroke, follow through, speed, wrist and hit produced 70-80% of the action (movement) as compared with a low deflection shaft made of wood. For those with massive strokes it's perhaps not as big a deal, but I think it is a serious impediment to the average player, who does NOT have stroke to spare. For those players, an LD shaft gives them slightly less "range," and a carbon fiber shaft another step further less range. Here for example, is an unlisted heavy force follow shot. This was made with a Schuler and its original standard shaft. Note well that I'm using nowhere near top speed, basically making the shot with stroke, and NOT power or strength. From my experience testing it, I don't think I could make this shot with a Revo unless I put on 20 lbs of muscle and hit it like a gorilla. kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6rboHmJdq-imZI You're an expert at comparison tests. I suggest a video with extreme follow and draw shots. The difficult part (as you well know) is making the strokes repeatable, but pick, for example, an ordinary force follow up and down the table, and give it 10 tries, trying to follow as far as you possibly can. Then average the top three results. Do this with three cues, one with a standard shaft, one with a wood LD shaft, and the Revo (I can't speak about the Cuetec). The cues should be very close in weight, and no English at all should be used (as that would affect speed off the cushion). I would be dumbstruck if you didn't find that: (1) a decent cue with a standard shaft followed the furthest; (2) a wood LD shaft followed meaningfully less far; and (3) that the Revo had a further noticeable reduction in distance. I'd also project that the drop-off from wood LD to Revo is greater than the drop-off from standard to wood LD. If these observations from my own informal testing are confirmed empirically by you, I would suggest that this reduction in action is likely just as present with less-than-extreme shots. I think that people using the Revo (perhaps unknowingly?) just adjust, and don't realize they're using more muscle and power to compensate for the stroke and action they've lost. The difference is smaller, and they just don't see it. Ultimately, of course, the more one uses power and "muscles" instead of a natural free-flowing "stroke," the less accurate one becomes, both with shot-making and position. This is something I absolutely talk about and consider when people ask me about cue selection, and I try and match the player's ability to the shaft. For example, casual players or beginners, who never use English, don't need an LD shaft. Intermediate players who are transitioning or struggling with using English (that would pretty much be all of them) could well benefit from a LD shaft. For intermediate and advanced players, I think how much stroke they have (or don't) should affect their choice between the three types above. Again, thanks for your magnificent contribution to our game.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Excellent suggestions. I'll add it to my list for things to look at in the future (although, unfortunately, my "list" is already very long). When you tested the Revo, was it the same weight and did it have the same tip as the wood shaft in the comparison? Also, did you check the chalk contact point on the a marked CB to see if they were the same with all shots? One obviously needs to be very careful when doing comparative testing like this. Again, thank you for your feedback and suggestions. I appreciate it.

[@rocketceo]

It is a fair point that the weight of the Revo I tried (20.5) was more than the cue I use, a Predator Lmtd Edtn 20th Anniv (18.5). The default Victory tip on the Revo was also a bit softer (75.3) than my Tiger Onyx tip (76.4). The almost 11% weight difference I would consider more critical. The Revo would hit with more mass, albeit at a slower speed, and since the speed is squared (to determine the kinetic energy hitting the cue ball) the Revo should hit with a little less force I'd think. However, I think I am experienced enough that I know instinctively about how far a cue ball should travel on a force follow, having executed such shots with many different cues, on many different tables and cloths. After shooting the same shot a half dozen times, and seeing it consistently fall short of the "stroke" that I gave it, I concluded that the Revo just had noticeably less action. This conclusion was bolstered by the deadened sort of hit and the non-responsiveness of the cue, and perhaps amplified my conclusion with a confirmation bias. The 11% weight difference IS material, so I'll refrain from my assertions until we can find someone very qualified and trained in the systematic and scientific testing of pool physics. Know anyone like that? ;-)

[@seancollins9745]

@@rocketceo Non LD maple shafts have a spring effect, and I too find many LD shafts and even the Carbon shafts to lack that good spring back. They all have tremendous amounts of adhesives in them, and those adhesives and bonding agents and resins all tend to have HIGH dampening characteristics by nature. I have been working on using different materials in shafts and found that I can build low deflection shafts with single piece wood construction using better quality wood, that have better hit characteristics, the issue so far as been harshness in the hit which I have been taming with some splicing of softer wood species near the joint collar where there is little interaction with the shaft and cue but meaningful reduction in vibration, I also find that having woods with differing resonant property's tends to cancel some vibration,. My first 2 shaft I feel where successful enough that I am working on a FEA model and I think I have finalized a design I am going to test exhaustively and start offering to a select few local players for comment.

[@IndianHeathen1982]

This question might be out of the scope of this video. I played in the recently concluded UK open and I had a lot of trouble with the throw of the balls and/or deflection because of the new cloth. (It seemed to me that new cloth and polished balls caused more deflection and/or throw - why? Or was I just hallucinating?) Neils Feijen has a video on how to play with a new cloth (great video!). But he didn't address the deflection part of it. I could literally see the balls curve away if I put any English. So my question is - is my observation true? (or am I imagining things?) And how do I simulate new cloth? Would simply polishing my ball set be adequate? Or do I need to refelt the table about a week or two before I play in such a tournament again? It really bothered me!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

CB deflection is definitely larger on new/slick cloth. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/cloth-effects/ You can simulate this by polishing and waxing the CB, which also affects throw. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/ball/cleaning/

[@Tedsterslab]

Dr dave.. Ive been meaning to buy a carbon fiber shaft but I cant get used to playing with cue gloves. I still put powder on my bridge hand. Is it required to use gloves to play with carbon fiber shafts? Or is powder ok with CF shafts? Tnx in advance.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Gloves are not required, especially with an open bridge in a dry environment. Powder is certainly OK with any shaft.

[@fm00078]

7:30 __ You got a higher jump with Players by elevating it a little more than Revo. The highest jump with the Air Jump shaft by elevating it even more than Players. Air Jump elevation was very noticeable.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It does appear that the cue elevation was higher with the jump cue, but the main message is still the same: The LD shaft did not jump as well as the others. The elevation seemed to be the same for the LD and maples shafts, which were both on full-length cues, unlike the jump cue which is shorter and lighter.

[@fm00078]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dave. I've watched quite a few of your video's and your tests & explanations always seemed really close to spot-on. This one was rather noticeable mainly since I'm looking for acquire my first (hopefully only) Jump Cue. -- Again, thanks.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@murdoc4794]

A few years back a lot of companies came out with Composite shafts that offered the same advantages you described. Why did they fail? Will the same happen the to new fad of carbon fiber?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Carbon fiber is not a fad. It is an already well-tested and proven revolution.

[@murdoc4794]

@@DrDaveBilliards I was not intending to slander carbon fiber by calling it a fad. My apologies. I was simply remarking on its sudden popularity. I am genuinely curious to get your thoughts on why the older composite shafts did not catch on? It would seem to me that they at least share a lot of the benefits of carbon. Thank you. I do appreciate your videos.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@murdoc4794 The fiberglass cues made in the past had too much CB deflection and people didn't like the feel of the hit.

[@scottdad]

you should do an updated version of this video now that there are a lot more carbon fiber shafts on the market. Also, I'd love to see a review of the Torrified wood shafts....I've heard good things about those shafts.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for the suggestion. I don't normally like to do product review stuff (partly because I don't have all the products and it takes a lot of time and effort [and sometime money] to get them).

[@bogie1971]

You could take every carbon fiber cue on the market the results are going to be the same as what you just saw on this video. Just remember this carbon fiber is a lot cheaper than wood for a manufacturer to produce. And the best players in the world still play with wood Efren Reyes, Earl Strickland, Francisco bustamante, Jason Shaw, Willy moscone run 526 balls with a solid Maple shaft Jason Shaw just run 714 balls with a maple shaft. People do not need carbon fiber people need to practice it's really that simple

[@scottdad]

@@bogie1971 I've played with all kinds of different shafts, and the main thing I love about the carbon fiber is the fact that it will never warp, ding, or discolor from chalk. They're super low maintenance, you can leave them in your car without worry of the temps. Having that said, I honestly like the feel of a maple LD shaft better.

[@scottdad]

@@bogie1971 Also, all the different carbon fiber shafts have slightly different hits and some even have unique sounds when you hit a ball with them...which I don't like. There are some other benefits too. For example, a few of the manufacturers (OB, Spartan, and Bull) has interchangeable joint system that allows you to fit it on literally any cue.

[@whaletiger5591]

A question that I have about the carbon fiber shafts is their weight distribution: I use Lucasi cues (right now the Lucasi Hybrid Zero Flex Slim shaft) and the center of mass always felt further forward than when my friend let me try out his Predator 314-3 shaft on my cue. Are these carbon fiber shafts weighted more towards the joint like the 314-3 or more towards the bridge like the Lucasi Slim?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Sorry, but I don't know. And honestly, it doesn't make much different to me, per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/balance/

[@shadmonk]

Dr Dave, as the pivot point is so long with the revo shaft, then doesnt that make using BHE harder? Or basically you just find you need to use less than with a normal maple shaft?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Pure BHE with the bridge at the "natural pivot point" applies only to very fast and short shots. I use the SAWS BHE/FHE system with my Revo and it works great over a wide range of shots. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/

[@MikeyD8632]

It looks like the cuetek synergy has implex material at the joint? Could be laser etching also

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don't know. Even if it did, that would have no impact on CB deflection.

[@MikeyD8632]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks Dave. No it wouldn't. But if one has a stainless joint on butt end it would give it a softer hit. I have a metal joint and another cue with a implex joint. I can definitely feel a softer hit with the implex joint. No biggie but definitely different. I actually never seen another carbon shaft with a implex joint if it does indeed have one. Can't find any info on the web if that is the case. I have a lucasi pinnacle carbon shaft. I really like it except for one thing. It comes in at 12.7 . It's supposed to be 12.5. I'm going to try the cuetek and was curious about the implex joint. Thanks for your wonderful videos. Sorry if you thought I was implying the possible implex joint would have anything to do with deflection . I know it doesn't just wondering about the build

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@MikeyD8632 Understood. I personally don't care much about the feel or sound of a hit ... I just care where the CB goes, but I know this is important to some people.

[@adisuryadj4024]

Hi dr dave, which one is better revo, cuetec, or ignite? What diameter if revo, 12.4 or 12.9?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Again, I don't know, but anybody can easily compare any shafts using the procedure at the 4:22 point in the video.

[@zanethind]

What cue is your go to cue Dr Dave? Ah the Revo got it nice choice

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Yep. I love the Revo.

[@Peropero337]

Hey doc, bit off topic here, butim planning to buy a new Cuetec CF Shaft, but im not sure as to which tip size i should get, 12.4 or 11.8 . A friend of mine said that its harder to pot balls with the 11.8 tip, but in return you get the most spin out of any shafts. Which shaft do you think i should get? Thanks doc

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Assuming the CB deflection is the same, It really doesn’t matter (except for feel if using a closed bridge). For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

[@Peropero337]

@@DrDaveBilliards i see.. Well thanks alot doc!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@Peropero337 You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@sam8603]

Hi Dr Dave, I am currently on the search for a jump cue or maybe a jump-break cue. What should I look out for when purchasing for?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The main thing to look for is a phenolic tip. For the break cue, you want the weight that will be the most effective for you. The only way to know is to try a range. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/ The best jump cue weight also varies a lot from one person to the next. Again, try as many as you can first.

[@johnwalding9457]

would the pivot point be the proper bridge length for that shaft instead of using the measurement from the elbow to the center of the wrist?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The "natural pivot length" of a shaft has nothing to do with player anatomy. See the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/natural-pivot-length/

[@johnwalding9457]

Thanks I did not think so but I had to ask

[@carloscobarrubia44]

Hey Dave I noticed when you were hitting the shots with the shafts some of your hits went up on your bridge does that effect the deflection?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

With an open bridge, that sometimes happens, but it is a non-issue because the CB is long gone before anything happens at the bridge hand, so it definitely has no effect on CB deflection. For more info, see the info and video here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/bridge-length/

[@carloscobarrubia44]

Thank you for the info will definitely check it out love the videos sir

[@donkeydiehard879]

Please do something similar with a McDermott defy.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don't have one, but anybody can easily do the tests and comparisons on their own just like in my video.

[@jenniferlroberts5994]

But what about the weight of a cue? I use an 18 oz. I started learning with a 15 oz and I cannot find one below an 18. I felt I had better control with the lighter cue.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/ A lighter cue can help you limit speed, but that can be done with the stroke also. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/ Enjoy!

[@workshop777]

Dave, recently I have agreed with most of your videos, but the "It's not the Indian, It's the arrow" philosophy gets so old and an be argued with another philosophy... "You don't climb a mountain in flip flops". The next thing people usually say is " Well Pro Player Johnny Runarack could beat me with a broom stick"... well imagine what he could do with a decent cue. With all that being said. You have another informative video here.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks for the comments. I agree that even a great "Indian" can't play as well with a totally crappy cue (e.g., a bent broom stick with a bad tip on it). However, any decent "Indian" can play well with any decent cue with a decent tip.

[@Miamiz24]

Agreed a 15 dollar wal mart cue vs maybe a 75 dollar viking cue with a preferred tip, is a world of difference

[@awaheed2649]

@@Miamiz24 as per comments by Dr Dave I don't think he meant that, if that Walmart cue has a decent tip and straight shaft it is equally good to a 75 dollar viking

[@Miamiz24]

@@awaheed2649 they aren't that was my very 1st cue,$9.99 lasted 2 weeks xD ,my 5 yr old Valhalla and 3 yrs old ob1 have done the trick,not flashy not expensive, still straight and everytime i want to get a new cue ,i end up talking myself out of it lol

[@backyardbilliards101]

Can you try the meucci carbon fiber shaft to see if there's any difference.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I don't have one, but anybody who has one can use the same "natural pivot length" test starting at the 4:22 point to get a direct comparison.

[@michaeltrumph121]

Dave, which tip hardness do you recomend for a 12.4 Revo shaft ? I just bougt one and I keep muscuing with the soft Victory tip it comes with. Perhaps it's due to the fact that my ex shaft - a 314-3 had a bigger tip (around 13 mm), but I think the Victory tip is garbage. On my previous shaft, I also had a soft tip, but it was a black Kamui clear and I loved it. Somebody told me that a softer tip causes more deflection, is that true ? What tip would you recommend ?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Tip hardness is a personal preference sort of thing. I use a Triangle on my Revo and like it, but others might hate it. I prefer a harder tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Miscuing is not caused by the tip or the cue ... it is caused by the player. Tip hardness has no meaningful effect on CB deflection. For more info, see the link above.

[@ejss]

should i buy a powerglide pool cue (the burner, mizano 2 or classic triquetra)? its the only one that ships and doesnt have a $50 shipping fee. that i know of.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It honestly doesn't matter what cue you buy or not. It is the player, not the cue that is important. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/selecting/

[@ejss]

@@DrDaveBilliards thanks 👍

[@VigneshNadar]

Best video!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks!

[@joeyrohrbaugh6447]

Dr. Dave do you have any details on the break cue shane is using now? Is it just regular cuetec carbon fiber with a hard tip? Or is cuetec making a special shaft for the break cue?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Sorry, but I don't know. However, I do know that it probably doesn't matter very much. Shane can break awesomely with any cue.

[@claytonwaterman2301]

@@DrDaveBilliards Hi Dr. Dave, I'm a big fan, and really appreciate your overall scientific approach to evaluating pool and billiards. I've been playing off and on since the 1970s and have a Fargo rating of 525. Probably not better because of always changing things and looking for the next improvement. Speaking of Shane, I've recently been shooting a lot, using the inside edge of the cue to the point of contact even though it doesn't seem to make geometric sense. I get pretty good results, but struggle with things like jump shots and english compensation. Do you think you might ever evaluate this method? I'd love to see that. Thanks

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Aiming at the contact point with inside will work with some amounts of spin on some shots at certain speeds and distances (with certain cue elevations), but this method will not work over a wide range of shots. For lots of info on how to aim when using sidespin, see: billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming_compensation.html#compensation

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you want help with jump shots, see: billiards.colostate.edu/threads/jump.html#technique

[@jimondang6067]

I would like to see the same comparison with the Players HXT LD Shaft (12.75 tip). I play with a custom cue with the HXT LD Shaft and really like it very much! I think it's a lot of "bang for the buck(s)"!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It would be nice to test and compare every carbon fiber shaft on the market, but it takes a lot of time and effort to do this sort of thing (and I need to convince all the companies to send me the shafts first, which also takes a lot of time). And I have many other things I want to do. My "future videos that I want to do" list is extremely long already.

[@ohioharpman]

Kind sir, will you share your thoughts. I have friends using cuetec radial 15. I believe I’m choosing that shaft. I have a high quality at least 30 year old Viking butt shaft with a leather wrap. I had Viking inscribe my name on the butt on a ten year ago factory rehab. This cue currently has metal to metal shaft to butt connection. Is a CF shaft married to a metal butt desirable? If not what butt should I consider? How can I figure what threads are on my Viking butt to match shaft I intend to buy? Do older Vikings have a standard pin? Thanks I watch most or your videos .

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Honestly, I don't think the brand and type of cue/shaft/joint really matter very much (assuming you spend time to get used to whatever you choose). The player is much more important than the cue. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/selecting/