Drinker's Chasers - Smile 2 Review

[@dbsommers1]

The general rule should be, "the more powerful the killing entity is, the more constraints it requires. " It can only act when certain conditions are met.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

Or you could just go with the "fear of the unknown" angle, which doesn't say that there _aren't_ any rules, but rather that if there are, it'll take some time to know them, and by then it might already be too late...

[@mwm776]

Sinister is a good example of this

[@Ukaran]

And that's the case here. Did you even watch the movie?

[@mattcarter6302]

The nation of Japan and its horror films would like to have a word.

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

Defeats being powerful mate

[@slyjester3315]

Nobody: you're Jack's son? I mean, I guess I can see it Ray Nicolson: *smiles* Everybody: Oh, sh*t!!!

[@thisismyname3928]

🙄

[@darthbiscuit]

Tremors did a great job of having a monster with good jump scares that fit a constrained logic

[@Trollificusv2]

Indeed. What Tremors did well was what is lacking in so much "modern" fantasy/sci-fi: World Building. There are fantastic things in the universe, or fantastic conditions, but those things and conditions are constrained by RULES. Part of the reward of speculative fiction is figuring out what the rules are, what the world IS, what the alien can or can't do. When done well, it can really elevate a movie/novel/comic. Fail to build a world with rules that effect everyone in the story and it's just a bunch of nonsense and special effects.

[@joshuacalkins]

A fun, lightweight horror/playful ripoff of Dune. I liked it.

[@joshuacalkins]

@@Trollificusv2Definitely important! I recall a Crow movie where the audience just keeps thinking “oh! I guess he can do that too…”. Even Superman 2 had a one-off cellophane Super S that apparently incapacitates people. If we don’t know the parameters then we really are just along for a ride.

[@rosmundsen]

Tremors is one of my all-time favorite movies. Nearly perfect.

[@joshuacalkins]

@@rosmundsen I saw it as a young teen when it was new-ish. Always remembered two quotes. “Wake up call. Please move your ass.” And of course the dad from Family Ties “you broke into the wrong goddamn rec room!” Funny stuff for a “horror” movie.

[@DigiMyst]

Plot aside, I genuinely like Naoimi Scott's performance in this, and there were scenes in here that actually terrified me! Horror fans are having a renaissance with all these films lately

[@TheForbidden_1ne]

Her performance was EXCELLENT. The movie was creepy as hell but more of a psychological thriller than a horror movie imo

[@DigiMyst]

@@TheForbidden_1ne Yeah, I have to make my peace with the fact most horror movies don't really scare me anymore. I'm more into psychological horror now like Mike Flanagan's work

[@aspromonte5179]

The most horrifying things to me were some of the real-life moments, like the lead up to the car accident, her waking up in the wreck, etc.

[@maybrittwilkens6149]

It was really good.

[@mellotron_scratch]

Joel (the cop) actually managed to pass the entity to an innocent witness (the kid) but he died by accident.

[@mr.ballergaming7755]

Was it by accident? I thought the entity still managed to kill him because they showed the blood make a smile

[@fusionhypnotic]

@@mr.ballergaming7755hard to know for sure. Could also just be for the title sequence

[@William1683BT]

@@mr.ballergaming7755 I think that was just for dramatic effect, they just did it for the shock value, and it worked I just wished he would have survived even if he didn’t appear again the movie just so we could see Joel return for the 3rd movie.

[@DavidWhite-d4d]

@@William1683BT agreed; great actor

[@joshuanelson6795]

I'm glad a reviewer finally pointed out how overpowered the entity is in these movies. If it can warp reality around its victims in any manner it pleases with no rules or limitations, the movie loses its tension because the protagonist stands no real chance of surviving and you're essentially just waiting for them to die the entire runtime. It also doesn't help when entire chunks of the film can be written off as "psyche, it was all a hallucination"! These are the reasons why I haven't been able to invest in the Smile movies like so many others have. The writing in them often feels cheap, convenient and predictable.

[@mikeallan7740]

It's like the first time realisation that every film M Night Shyamalan makes will have a twist which means you can't invest in anything because you're waiting the whole time for the twist to be revealed.

[@joshuanelson6795]

@@mikeallan7740 Good analogy.

[@jordanpax9735]

I agree while I do like that the creature is smart enough to recognize that it almost got beat twice it decided to up the ante at the end

[@chriscroteau931]

It's why I won't rewatch Smile or go see Smile 2. The first viewing of Smile had me glued to my seat wondering what would happen and rooting for Rose. Now that I know the Smile monster will always win and I'd just be watching someone get tormented for 90-120 minutes before they're killed, I'll pass.

[@joshuanelson6795]

@@jordanpax9735 The entity has never come close to being beaten in either movie though. That's the problem: it's too powerful and it never feels like the characters have any chance at surviving it.

[@KvapuJanjalia]

I'm guessing that at the end of Smile 2, the demon possesses the entire audience who witnessed a traumatic event.

[@joshuanelson6795]

Ding Ding Ding!

[@Guardian978]

Really want to see the third one to see if the Smiler can possess more than one person or if it just gets its pick of the litter. Can it haunt more than one?

[@gyorgyor7765]

I had the thought of what if instead of possessing all of them, it drops the shredded souls of its past victims into some of them, to act like baby Entities.

[@Acme633]

I am not sure that the "rules" permit more than one person to be "infected", in which case there was no reason to "pass on" to another person. If the entire audience can be infected, there would be mayhem in the sequel.

[@ZeroOmega-vg8nq]

​@@Acme633its pretty much heavily implied it infected everyone in the audience

[@finalfantasy1912]

The Smile Demon has more in common with Freddy Kruger than It Follows. Except the physical form is much scarier, it feeds on darkness and trauma, and can make people do whatever the hell it wants to them. The restraint was explained in the first movie and even the opening of Smile 2. SPOILERS: You have to get rid of someone and leave a witness behind so that it passes to the next host.

[@dandan4092]

First one freaked me out with when that chick’s head drops down outside the car window

[@jayboy2kay7]

Except they completely ruined it by showing it in the trailer. Fact.

[@declanjones8888]

​@@jayboy2kay7 Yes! What's up with the marketing for horror movies? Why do they feel the need to show the parts your not supposed to show in the trailer?

[@dandan4092]

@@jayboy2kay7 glad I missed the trailer!

[@kowalski-turniton6704]

It was goofy as hell, and the scene had zero influence on anything.

[@DanteMishima]

​@@jayboy2kay7reason 326 why I don't touch trailers

[@mikeallan7740]

Smile is another modern horror which should in it's own genre called "gimmick horror" with similar films like the bye bye man and it follows. They all have this similar aesthetic and all have some kind of unique gimmick based antagonist that can't really be beaten in order to justify sequels.

[@ParkerCS2]

Similar affect happened with first nightmare on elm street where original happy ending was chucked out in favor of last jumpscare one to allow sequels. They could’ve still made sequels even with the original ending, but that shows how incompetent Hollywood always has been. Supernatural slasher villains can still come back in sequels and don’t need to win in order to make a franchise.

[@ginjaedgy49]

thats kind of all horror films, Chucky, Jason, Freddy to name a few old ones

[@ParkerCS2]

@@ginjaedgy49 those villains can be beaten. There’s yet to be any weakness for the smile creature/force. Smile is starting to have similar problem that the final destination series had where they’re not letting any characters have any chances and no balance of sometimes the humans win and sometimes the supernatural threat wins. Smile is following same boring path. Freddy, Chucky, Jason, Ghostface get killed every movie and yet they still come back to terrorize new victims every new installment. Smile if it’s gonna be a long running franchise probably would be better off following similar pattern as it’s technically a “slasher” franchise.

[@grim_2000]

​@@ParkerCS2 wtf, how is Smile a slasher franchise?

[@jamescarr1265]

It follows was awesome tho imo

[@Spink_Prime]

I love my horror movies, and I watch quite a few every Halloween. I've had a few really get to me, including the original TCM and House of 1000 Corpses. Smile was another one that really, really got under my skin. As Drinker says, the concept or feeling of something watching you, staring at you, studying you silently as it smiles, as if it knows something really bad will happen to you or knows what it has in store really unsettled me, to the point of being consistently unnerved for a couple weeks whenever I thought about it. I think the actress in the first major scene of the first film did a fantastic job showing what it's like being followed by something you can't explain or prove to anyone, but you know is coming for you, especially with hindsight of the movie's plot. We as the audience don't know how it operates, but she's on point with everything she says about "it causes things to happen around me", as it caused Rose's cat to die mysteriously and end up in a present. "It looks like different people, but it's not a person." When you see it, it has sometimes the most unsettling smile imaginable. She looks scared of Rose, as if Rose could (and she really could have been) be the entity messing with her. It has a habit of coming out of nowhere, as also shown in the birthday scene, and the reaction the two have is almost identical to the other's when it pops up right in front of them - the reaction being to scream loudly, freak out, and fall backwards. Stupid and a little laughable as the latter half of the therapist scene is, I thought the idea of you conversing with the entity when you think it's a normal person is terrifying in its own right. There are definitely cheap, campy, and goofy moments to the first movie, but it affected me in a way very few movies can. All that said, they definitely went overboard with its abilities in the 2nd movie, and I didn't find any particular scene other than the backup dancers remotely unsettling. I cared about the protagonist more, but that seemed to be the only notable improvement for me.

[@patrickkinnear8625]

On the entity being "too powerful" and the protagonists having no means to succeed against it-- that only becomes clear at the end of these films. There are multiple threads of hope in both movies, that end up being false hope and a manipulation of the entity, but while experiencing the movie, you don't actually realize there was no hope. I think these movies are done incredibly well, and the idea that any situation you're in could be a facade is deeply upsetting and one of my favorite things about both movies.

[@AmartharDrakestone]

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." They've established TWICE that there is no winning. There will be no tension in the eventual third movie.

[@patrickkinnear8625]

@AmartharDrakestone i can't say one way or another. I can only speak on the two films they've made. I'm not watching this movie with the anticipation that it will become a new yearly franchise or anything.

[@mattcarter6302]

@@AmartharDrakestone I think the popularity of the Ju-On movies from Japan show that this is really not a huge plot problem, or a unique one. (Notably, there are a couple of folks in that franchise that end up escaping, but not because of any "rule-lawyering" and certainly not anything that could be replicated later.)

[@AmartharDrakestone]

@@mattcarter6302 And I was done with that series after the second movie.

[@mattcarter6302]

@@AmartharDrakestone Sure. My point is that your preferences are maybe not in line with the average horror fan.

[@EnsignRedshirtRicky]

The Smile Demon is part of your unconscious, so when will Smile vs Freddy come out?

[@gyorgyor7765]

Now that would be fun.

[@oscar0709]

Smile vs Hoffman The creatures in his head and it hears the Jigsaw music 😂

[@ParkerCS2]

@@gyorgyor7765 Vecna Vs smile entity/curse Vs Freddy Vs Pennywise LOL

[@exodous02]

I actually thought about this also. The problem is neither is in the real world and they both want to kill people so they would just be competing in someone's head.

[@ParkerCS2]

@ or the astral plane is a dimension in between the real world and people’s heads.

[@EndThusIAm]

I have a love/hate relationship with the fact that anything that happens can be real or an illusion.

[@_NutcasE_]

Like many things its a tool that requires mastery to use right. In correct hands and moderation it can spark tension the viewer "is that real or is it in their head" but with smile 2 which is the wrong way to use it. Its so obvious and overused it becomes less of a mystery and more so the case of "I am not investing in this story because it could all be pointless jargon that gets thrown away" and then it turns out to be exactly that. With moderate usage and talent you could pull of a mindfk ending that leaves people gasterflabbed but here it wasnt even questioned.

[@Lawrence_Talbot]

If it’s done well it can be good. Like in the Smile 2, I did not mind it at first because to me it seemed to play with the idea of mental illness. A celebrity who just got out of rehab and is trying to relaunch her career would be under immense stress while also going through withdrawal, so it wouldn’t be out of the question for her to start losing her mind a bit, and the demon could then take advantage of that causing her to doubt what’s going on while equally getting more paranoid and thus making it easier to control her. Like when she thinks she sees her mom KHS only to realize she (the main character) actually did the stabbing. That I thought was really cool, and then it took a hard left turn where nothing was real anymore and I was disappointed

[@nosickl]

Although I like the first movie better, the sequel was still great to see. Despite repeating most of the plot points of the original, the sequel managed to deliver a different perspective of the same horrific experience.

[@xcosmiccrunchx]

The end scews up like the last two thirds of the movie by bringing us all the way back to when she was about to go on stage in that jump suit that she didn't like. By doing this, it makes the entire last two thirds completely pointless because none of it was real. Add to that, she (and us) were gaining new information during those two thirds which means one of two things, either the demon was telling her everything (it's never demonstrated in either movie that it would do that) or the people who wrote it didn't think this through.

[@ErinJeanette]

It didn't mean to me that nothing happened from that moment but that it had been autopiloting her and making her wear that outfit. It didn't ruin any of what happened cuz none of its real anyways.

[@MrLakaveli]

U dont know....

[@Wolf_ManJack]

Movie monsters like these work best when there's some sort of advantage against them; if you make your bad guy Nyarlathotep, and he's only constrained by the fact that... he hasn't chosen to win yet, then there's no question about the hero's "win" being part of the ante - you're just waiting for them to lose. But if the hero has even a single tool, then it becomes a question of character competence. If there were subtle cues as to what it was always going to do, ones the audience could notice, schizo-tier "minor omen" shit, then the lead has essentially a slight psychic advantage and can play around the monster. It's not a huge tool, but it fits within paranormal rationale, and raises the question of if the heroes can _outlearn_ the monster in time to win.

[@darthdaddy3071]

I agree. I enjoyed watching the movies, but my biggest complaint was that the protagonist basically has no chance, and for us as the audience it's incredibly unsatisfying watching them lose the battle after becoming invested in their character growth. I don't like going on a journey with a character I like only to realize that it was all for nothing in the end.

[@homoduplex]

I think it was intentional that the protagonist of part one looks stressed out from the beginning. They make it a point to convey that she's working too much, and she has her childhood trauma. She's already struggling and vulnerable, and that's why the curse is attracted to her.

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

The demon is invincible because they want Smiles 3, 4, 5, 6....

[@TapCat]

The all-power spirit has become increasingly common in horror movies and it's definitely a turn-off for me. As Drinker says, it kills all the tension. There needs to be some hope that the protagonist can survive or I just have no reason to be invested in the story. I'm just watching a dead person run around because the demon/ghost hasn't yet chosen to finish them off.

[@ErinJeanette]

That's such a really miserable and scary premise to me.

[@gyorgyor7765]

The movie literally tells you want to do to beat the Smile Entity Spoiler Alert......,........... The host has to die alone with no one to pass the Smile Entity onto, but Skye Riley doesn't have the nerve to do that yet so she misses her opportunity to beat the Smile Entity, although she courageously tries, but you don't know that till the end of the movie. And the Smile Entity is not omnipotent, but it does get progressively more powerful the longer it's in you, so you got to beat it ideally in the first few half of the week. And the whole thing with Gemma I think was the Entity's sadistic sense of humor, it builds Skye up so she suffers so much more instead of just breaking completely early on.

[@cinemamadness6920]

If there is a Smile 3, I imagine it will start with someone burning down the stadium with all the crowd of people dying except for maybe 1 or 2, because otherwise it's game over for humanity. Or they'll go the prequel route to how the entity was born

[@mk2mister2]

@@cinemamadness6920 It's the only way that makes sense where the contagion is confined to a handful of people rather than tens of thousands, which will spread like wildfire.

[@nosickl]

The irony is that alone, the host can not commit suicide. The demon won't allow the host to die without finding another victim. That is why the host would need somebody's help.

[@sgnox7781]

Yea but you as a host dont want to die so that way of beating it is kinda bad

[@aw7400]

The thing is that both movies make it abundantly clear that even if you do achieve a way of getting rid of the curse, it will be just be revealed that it was a hallucination all along. We saw this in the first movie where Rose tries to kill someone to pass on the curse but it's just a hallucination, and in the second movie Skye goes through with the heart stopping plan but the whole second half of the movie is just a hallucination. The only ones who succeeded were the criminal in the first one (with no elaboration) and Joel who promptly gets killed ten minutes into the 2nd movie for no reason whatsoever. If they do a 3rd one I hope it becomes a high-stakes game between a guy who is willing to sacrifice it all to stop the entity and the entity doing everything to prevent him. So maybe he knows about the curse and immediately kills someone to get rid of it, but then the entity wants to get its revenge so it keeps circling back to him. Like a game of hot potato between the two where they are trying to outwit each other the entire movie. But in order to make the series more interesting we need to know what the rules are around the entity. Does it need a certain "gestation" period to grow and that's why the first guy who subverted it was able to succeed because he got rid of it before it was too developed to respond with these wild hallucinations? Maybe another course a 3rd movie can take is it latches onto someone who is so psychologically damaged they just go and do the deed to themselves the same night they're infected and we think the curse is broken, only to find out the entity has reformed somewhere and has to learn how to evolve while a group of characters are trying to find a way to stay ahead of the evolution of this entity. There are interesting ways to go but it feels like taking out Joel at the beginning of the 2nd movie just cut off their best possible lore development at the knees. What happens if the entity latches onto someone who is so psychologically strong that it takes weeks or months to wear them down? What if that character uses the time to come up with a way to end the curse for good?

[@jacksparrow9227]

Well if the creature can make her do anything at any time and hallucinate, then by being her friend and helping her it would lure her into a false sense of security and just be psycho-torture and playing with her, like how Riddler likes clues for Batman to find and get closer to the riddle or a serial killer with the police

[@mikeallan7740]

Basically it's the "what do you know, it's unkillable" scene from the Simpsons but turned into an entire film.

[@gyorgyor7765]

It's not unkillable

[@ParkerCS2]

@@gyorgyor7765 oh really, how is it not unkillable?

[@shaengar7440]

Morris' plan would have likely worked if Skye went with him the moment they met the first time. He told her that she doesn't hav3 much time anymore and he turned out to be right.

[@Chris-gw2xg]

@@shaengar7440They never met the first time because it was all in her head… The entire movie is pointless

[@shaengar7440]

@@Chris-gw2xg After the scene where she gets attacked and mouth stuffed by her dancing crew everything takes place in her head until the last scene. The scene in the Bar with Morris is before that and therefore real.

[@kyn7329]

This entity is too OP; like the demon literally trolled BOTH of the protagonist in their respective endings in their movies 🤣

[@gnarwhal7562]

The problem with a villain that's unkillable and can warp reality without any limitations, is that it forces the writers to turn the plot into a Lovecraftian-esque story in order to make it work, and presenting that type of horror onscreen is extremely difficult because the protagonist(s) are essentially just powerless spectators with no affect on the overall threat/outcome; (just look at how many failed Junji Ito adaptations there are now). There should have been some sort of tangible way to kill or keep the Smile entity at bay

[@ParkerCS2]

It’s basically the same problem with Final Destination. There’s no point in trying if there’s no win scenario. As a one off it works, but as a franchise it becomes boring and stale. The supernatural entity or force in smile is that level of overpowered. There’s nothing to root for except for the monster to win. At least with Death/Grim Reaper from Final Destination it allows somewhat of fairness. At least sometimes. It’s still pretty hard, but there’s like a 5% chance of surviving. With Smile there’s only a 2% chance.

[@darthdaddy3071]

I would compare the Smile demon to IT - IT was basically a super powerful Lovecraftian entity too, but there was a key to beating him which the main characters eventually figured out, and they succeed in the end. I was hoping that the MC in Smile 2 would end up doing a psychological battle with the smile demon when the guy stopped her heart and eventually win, but no.... instead it was all a fake out. You'd think that with the nature of the smile entity itself - since it feeds off trauma and fear - that the MC would gain an advantage and eventually be able to overcome the entity if she confronts that trauma and fear.

[@ParkerCS2]

@@darthdaddy3071 I think the problem is the director and studio is focusing more on a long running franchise instead of logical storytelling. I get that, but this isn’t the way to do it. Even Final Destination gave more variety than this. It’s second movie had the MCs surviving. Smile needs to not always let the villain win. There needs to be variety.

[@finalfantasy1912]

SPOILERS: It's not unkillable. It has to die alone without any hosts in the area. In both movies it is explained that the entity kills people within a week. It gets stronger every day until the 7th then it kills the host in front of someone else.

[@maddyG7414]

I was waiting for there to be more of a fight to beat the entity in the second one. I agree that it being so powerful removed a lot of the tension. In the first one, discovering the entity and trying to get ahead of it helped build the story, but the second one was just scares and smiles, so I felt it had less intrigue for me. The actress who played Skye was incredible though.

[@tangroro]

8:29 that's what I hate about the first movie too, it could've been a great allegory for trauma and mental illness, but they focused too much on the demon, it could've been more like The Babadook

[@TheGruspastej]

You should cover the "stop killing games" movement and, specifically, the associated "european citizens initiative" that is currently ongoing. It is an effort to stop planned obsolecence in video games, meaning publishers can't just kill games you have paid money for. It is an actual effort to change things and remove an awful aspect of the anti-consumer games industry rather than just yelling about it to the void.

[@gyorgyor7765]

Love this

[@metatron107]

I've been diving deep into a headcanon that the film is essentially an inversion of Descartes’ Meditations. The Smile Entity feels like a direct embodiment of Descartes’ Daemon-a malevolent force that manipulates perception and erodes the very foundation of self. The tragedy of Skye is that she ends up in a scenario where Descartes had his big epiphany, but instead of realizing she’s the key to resisting, she succumbs to the Smile. The film’s finale-her complete subjugation and public destruction-becomes the ultimate philosophical horror. It’s not just terrifying; it’s a rare gem that challenges you to confront the fragility of perception and identity. What a masterpiece!

[@Milton2k]

Some said it is better than the original, I disagree. Specially the ending was too over-the-top for me. The Substance also sins from the same. The Substance, otherwise great.

[@jackbauer5455]

I thought the 2nd one production and set pieces were all better because of the budget it made the movie better that scene with the backup dancers was great same with the main character going through her trauma before her downfall much better character story than the 1st movie in my opinion.

[@SpiralDown2077]

My dentist told me they watched it and liked it, so I saw it and now I’m looking for a new dentist

[@silentgrind34]

Do yall like anything?

[@Mr.Ambrose_Dyer_Armitage_Esq.]

I liked it, went in the same direction as _REC 3_ in that it took an isolated incident and made it a spiritual pandemic. I like the thought of there being a _Smile 3_ that's _NOT_ about the possessed but by people beseiged by an outbreak of horror trying to evade trauma as society falls apart around them, sort of like _Pulse,_ but with the Smile Monster multiplied across that girl's audience.

[@poissonsumac7922]

19:54 This is probably one of my favorite aspects of Black Christmas (1974). The killer is a mystery the ENTIRE movie. You barely even see him, just his right eye (in two SPECTACULARLY haunting shots) and one of his hands. And he's either madly tearing up the attic or rambling incoherently about Agnes and Billy, leaving you to wonder just who the heck are Agnes and Billy, what HAPPENED to this guy? You don't even get answers at the end of the movie, he never gets caught! Black Christmas is a great movie btw, you should watch it December. Don't bother with the remakes though!!

[@Milton2k]

"It Follows" is a good flick IMO. High hopes for the sequel.

[@robertharper6481]

One of the best horror films of recent times...I worry for the sequal because Hollywood...

[@Milton2k]

@@robertharper6481 Agree.

[@chasehedges6775]

Fantastic movie

[@andrewbyrnes5087]

Idk the premise of a sentient STD TURNS ME OFF TO its potential to entertain me immediately

[@Milton2k]

@@andrewbyrnes5087 Hehehe, nicely put. But of course it is not an STD....

[@ZolaRenard_01]

Smile 2 is a movie which you could expect the ending but enjoyed watching it anyway. Also, there're a lot of details in filmmaking I love there. Just watch it, you won't regret it.

[@sgnox7781]

I like the meat behind the characters, there is more to the story and it makes sense who they are (compared to something like mike flanagan slop), i like the detoriating mind perspective and constant living on the edge, however a lot of horror elements are just cheap jumpscares, and the movie does drag too much first one was already too long second one is even longer. Still a decent watch though.

[@TheForbidden_1ne]

I enjoyed the hell out of Smile 2. It was a great journey into spiraling madness. It was creepy as hell and the acting was top notch

[@Blindstoic]

“What is this some kind of Smiling Friends?” -Will Smith.

[@alessandroponte1270]

The thing that mostly gets me pissed in horror movies, besides when people act like complete morons to make a non-threat an actual threat and move the plot forward, is when strict rules are established for an entity to work (making you think it can actually be outsmarted) and then promptly those rules are broken at the end. I've seen it dozens of times in modern horrors.

[@MrLavajet]

The OP unbeatable monster is also a major issue with the Phantasm series. Love The Tall Man but if you can't kill him, he's a reality bender, and sidenote, likable sidekicks are constantly and unceremoniously killed off, it's no longer a fun/engaging watch.

[@roel.vinckens]

I wonder if Ray remembers Jack's birthday when the whole family was hiding behind the turned over kitchen table while the whole valley was filled with amplified slaughterhouse pig screams, a heart was nailed to their frontdoor and someone was aiming pro caliber fireworks at the house... One of good family friend Hunter S. Thompson's more amiable endeavours.

[@michaeldavid6832]

Someone who didn't know that story would've thought you were a bot with poorly constructed parameters. The world be weird sometimes.

[@roel.vinckens]

@@michaeldavid6832 It's in the weird that I find comfort.

[@michaeldavid6832]

@@roel.vinckens You and me both, buddy. Anything that can weird me out in a thoughtful way is high art.

[@grim_2000]

​@@michaeldavid6832 what story is that?

[@anthonyfashona7990]

I LOVED this movie and I’m okay with how “overpowered” the entity is because I’m not going to the movie to witness a flawed character’s redemption, I’m there for creative, shocking kills!

[@mattmaru9108]

Great showcase of how someone can lose their mind. The lead did extremely well at showing trichotillomania, substance abuse and other aspects as well.

[@Azhalan]

I actually liked both movies. And I would bet that the idea with the smile came from watching Jack Nicholson in Shining 😁

[@MultiTexMex]

I enjoyed both films and It Follows as well. Love it or hate it, it’s a lot smarter than most Hollywood horror films.

[@TheForbidden_1ne]

100% true

[@brainiac.computer]

Spoiler: I’ve had a lingering thought regarding the ending. The Smile Demon thrives in feeding off people’s fears/trauma and needs to be passed on from person to person, correct? So why expose itself to an audience of over 10,000? I keep asking myself, since it technically needs humans to “survive”, why risk that? Wouldn’t that in turn cause a chain reaction where a lot of people would die en masse? And for what purpose? Why is it tormenting people? What is the ultimate goal? If it’s to kill off humanity, then okay. I like cosmic horror, but there has to be a sense of desperation and one’s efforts being for naught, which I guess is what the series is going for. Apart from that, the film seems to have a lot of similarities to Perfect Blue. Mainly a story of an innocent woman losing her grip on reality and not having much of a safety net to fall back on. That and the exploitative (and oftentimes predatory) practices preyed upon people in the entertainment industry.

[@SantosAl]

I was not a big fan of the ending either it seemed too obvious for me. but as for reason why the entity would do this? The entity is obviously malicious and seems to get something from mentally traumatizing its victims. it also wants to spread to other people which is why it jumps to other people when a victim traumatizes someone else. Now why does it want to infect more people at once? Might be because It just likes the idea of infecting more people or that it is a way to survive? it seems like people are starting to learn more and more about it, and are starting to develope ways to deal with it, infecting more people might be a survival strategy. more people infected makes it more difficult to contain. My survival theory is mostly head canon, the most likely reason is that it just enjoys ruining people.

[@DanteMishima]

Nature of celebrity you say? The Substance is what you need

[@YllibD]

Fantastic acting and great practical effects in Substance, loved it

[@NickElliott-dv8vn]

Agreed The Substance was brilliant! Cant wait for Terrifier 3.

[@ab-gail]

I prefer the Neon Demon in that respect.

[@cian239]

Substance was good for the first hour then devolved into gross shock value slop

[@beastmaster6943]

The beginning of The Substance as good Halfway was all right The ending was terrible

[@mattrowntree9369]

"Blarg." this is now my new battle cry.

[@petermgruhn]

Thank you, MauLer for suggesting a recap. I was like "What's a Smile and that there should be two of them?" I'm going with : Probs don't care cuz scary.

[@lazyeclipse00]

First movie she should have cultivated a situation where she was permanently heavily medicated, trapping the thing with her

[@BelgianWaffle6791]

What would have been an interesting way to write this movie, is if they told the story from the perspective of someone else, who had a friend that was being cursed by the Smiler demon. Similar to part 1, where the cop was trying to help Rose beat the demon, except the entire second movie would be from the friends perspective. So, instead of seeing the monster solely from the cursed persons perspective, we see the person quickly losing their minds from the friends perspective. This would put tension and a time limit behind the friend trying to figure out how break the curse and defeat the demon without all the 'hallucination' scenarios that take up runtime. If they want to have scary moments in the movie, they could have shown the friend also slowly being driven into madness (because of their desperation to help destroy the curse) and they too start to go insane by simply being around someone who is cursed. This could also have implications to how real mental health illnesses work, and how they can often effect the people who love us and are around us. To watch someone you love slowly descend into their own demise, and struggling to find a way to help them. Seeing how the rest of the world treats them, and shuns them. Knowing that, if you cant figure out how to help them they are going to die. That would have been an interesting concept for a Smile movie

[@Guigley]

It's not as good as the first, but Naomi Scott's performance alone makes it worth watching. The opening sequence is also a knockout.

[@billjones5741]

Too long, predictable ending and an imaginary 3rd act?? Haha . Score was awesome, main girl was awesome and some fun scares. Cinematography is what makes these movies. Dance troupe in her house was the greatest thing 😂

[@pikeflowed]

Totally agree, and that dance troupe......omg, creepy as hell ! lol

[@ab-gail]

That was definitely the best part.

[@chrislail3824]

Quickly becoming one of my favorite genres, Supernatural Transmitted Death. This was a fun watch, but could have been easily fixed by having her attempt to ‘solve’ it by trying to murder a fan that may have been stalking her or had been a little too much and her being unable to go through with it after attacking them or even being stopped. Even getting caught in the act and being arrested then finishing the loop in jail in front of the people there could have been a good ending. They should have saved the current ending for a third finale, or maybe they know that it’s unlikely to get another and will just cap it there.

[@harlannguyen4048]

Also known as, "STD"

[@Ukaran]

Jesus, it's like nobody paid attention to the movie! The demon grows in power during each day, taking over the victim more and more, until it takes total control. And that's it's weakness! In the first few days, it's not strong enough(yet). In Smile 2, Morris(the nurse guy at the bar) tells Skye that this is her last chance, and if she leaves, the demon would grow strong enough to manipulate her in ways she wouldn't even realize. And what does happen next? She leaves(throwing away her only chance of surviving), and then the demon takes full control of her(the guy shoving his hand in her throat), and starts manipulating her in ways she doesn't even realize(making it all a dream, while controling her body). In summa: She could have beaten the demon, if she had listened to Morris at the bar, and had gone with him.

[@4mooncheese]

Of course there'll be a Smile 3. After all they need to take advantage of replacing the E in smile with a 3.

[@ErinJeanette]

LOL

[@beastmaster6943]

can't wait for FANT4STIC FOUR from the MCUMIC SI4ILE (cut the bottom of the 4 and change color) 5MILE 6MILE (cut open the left bottom.side of the 6) SMI7E SMIL8 (change the right side to a different color)

[@earthlingcarl3179]

It's hard to care about anything you're watching once you realise it might not be real.

[@DrachonaTheWolf]

The first Smile was a mediocre comedy. I definitely had a few good laughs. That scene outside the diner where it hard cuts from serious distress to her scarfing down a burger was genuinely funny.

[@nicholasvalentine2428]

Good panel. As someone who hasn't seen either film, based on the analysis I would go with Smile 2.

[@metalevilution4565]

As someone who is a horror fanatic and been watching them since the early 80s i'm well and truly used to the villain winning. In fact thats usually the point of the genre. 😀 \m/

[@ashfrompallet1151]

I felt terrible for Rose, I really felt for her for a childhood ruined by a drug addict, and she’s still struggling with that and tries to help people. Then goes to an actual drug addict who is also a terrible person who caused the crash she was in. Hated Skye, felt for Rose.

[@ryrythomas2788]

I love both movies what on earth are they on about it's great.

[@mooseyman74]

An entity that destroys your soul and likes doing it in front of other people. Sounds like an old ex

[@eagleitalia]

Look, it's fun. But it's multiplex horror. Not really intended for afficiandos. Like Substance was kind of Cronenberg - David and Brandon - for the masses, Smile 2 is Smile, It Follows, top tier Carpenter for the masses. Smile 2 is big, and glossy. The audience I was sitting in didn't appear to be horror geeks, and it was really working for them. I just found it entertaining - you know all the beats, you see all the flaws,, the plot and logic holes, you see where it's going from the off, but the fun is seeing how the director is going to get you there. It'll work for the audience it's aiming for. I am surprised that the box office has dropped below the rate for the first film. But it's a decent Friday night flick, and Naomi's Scott fiercely committed turn is worth the entrance fee alone.

[@mjo9000]

I'm a huge fan of this franchise. Had no idea that was an unpopular opinion.

[@gageshippy2256]

There's always critics. Then there's just people who like other stuff. I personally liked it.

[@mjo9000]

That being said, these guys aren't wrong. It's not right to retcon half your movie. Still, it scared the hell out of me.

[@gageshippy2256]

@@mjo9000 I agree that the overuse of the hallucinations can muddle things but as longs as it entertains.

[@ab-gail]

@@mjo9000 Personally I don’t think I lost anything watching it. I enjoyed the journey.

[@serviusm9523]

Whenever i hear It follows, i always think of the Gumball Halloween episode, and i can't stop laughing

[@Milton2k]

Yes, Smile and Smile 2 has a very soft "magic system", so unclear that it is almost inexistent. Combined with an unreliable narrator makes the plot quite messy.

[@NickElliott-dv8vn]

Really enjoy your thoughts drinker cheers from New Zealand 🇳🇿 mate.

[@ShaneAddinall]

On the plus side, all this talk about films where you can't tell reality from visions made me add Fight Club to my "watch again" playlist.

[@ab-gail]

Can’t go wrong with that one!

[@dinosaurwoman]

I honestly really enjoyed Smile. I just don't think it needed a sequel. But that's one problem we have with the horror industry: not wanting to leave a good film well enough alone.

[@ghostramp8578]

Funny to see Drinker surprised after watching a modern movie with a semi-idiotic concept and title that turns out to be actually good. It’s great to hear some generally positive reviews nowadays

[@gordmacleod9955]

both smile movies rock we all want something new and this is it (the first is better)

[@ghostbased332]

I think it’s hypocritical of MauLer to criticize this movie for having a large potions in the main characters head, when EFAP praises the hell out of the Harrenhal scenes (rightfully so) which are also largely in Daemon’s head. The argument I would make (and they have made with Daemon) is that it does matter because of how it effects the character

[@cian239]

Mauler picks and chooses a lot of the time. He also prefers major IP films and shows like GOT which you mentioned over newer original stuff

[@danny-joeferriman3966]

Yes so glad to see baggage claim!!!

[@peds8345]

It Follows was incredible

[@metalevilution4565]

The monster is far from invincible. Actually Joel beat it at the beginning of the movie. He successfully passed it on to Lewis and was only killed cause of running onto the road and getting hit by a car trying to outrun those criminals. Exceptionally bad luck on his part.

[@aw7400]

Except it is still invincible because all you're doing by passing it on is freeing yourself from the curse. And then it comes back at full power. The only way we know it can probably be stopped completely is by just not letting it off yourself in front of a witness, but the entity's omnipotent world bending powers guarantee that will never happen because it will just delay your descent into madness long enough to get a witness.

[@SantosAl]

@@aw7400 It is not omnipotent to start with, It needs time to achieve enough control. though the right victim will need a shorter incubation time than someone more mentally resilient. Skye was uniquely suited for the entity by being so vulnerable because of her fresh trauma and her show. it even says so in the film.

[@aw7400]

@@SantosAl this is why I hope a future installment shows what happens if the only witness the entity can get is someone who is mentally strong and hold it off for weeks or months. There was promise at the beginning of the second one with the detective since he seemed to be still attached enough to reality that he was able to formulate a plan to get rid of it without hurting an innocent person, but they kind of ditched that plan immediately and just went with an enhanced rehash of the first one.

[@SantosAl]

@aw7400 Yeah, that would have been an interesting sequel. Here is a question: If you are incredibly resilient, could you even be infected? For example, if a sociopath saw the murder would the entity even be able to take hold of them?

[@Sepulcore42]

The actress in Smile 1 is Kevin Bacon's kid I believe.

[@cian239]

Nepo kids smh

[@Markmywords803]

Moley faced dull brat yes

[@scaleitback1055]

@@cian239kevin Bacon didn’t give his son an upper hand. I once stayed at his dump of an apartment which I thought was cooler than if he had something luxurious.

[@somebody7070]

Unfortunately didn't get her father's talent

[@LeracTheGreat]

The smile itself has an interesting psychology behind it unto itself. I compare it to the description of the Coachman smile from Pinocchio where his face turns red. "All teeth, and predatory eyes, and glee, all at the same time. I'm going to eat you, and it's going to make me very happy." It's a combination of malevolence and insanity.

[@thehitherto5348]

My problem with this series is that it feels like it's sewn together by a bunch of other franchises and movies: Ju-On, Ringu, Final Destination, It Follows, etc. That Aphex Twin gimmick also gets tiresome after a while.

[@All-Fur-Coat_No-Trousers]

I remember more-or-less enjoying the first Smile movie when it came out, but looking back on it now, I've never felt the compulsion to see it again. The ending was pretty neat, I thought, and it deffo freaked me out at points, but overall, it's kind of flat and not built to last. There's just not enough meat on the bone, and the tension is undermined because the entity is too ambiguously powerful. 5/10. Probably won't watch the sequel

[@Theendman42]

The sequel is better. The acting from the main actress is better, the themes are done better than the first one. But if you didn't like the premise, you simply wouldn't like the sequel.

[@Ban00dle]

Glad you mentioned "It Follows". When I watched the first one I spent the whole time thinking did someone just copy "It Follows" thinking nobody noticed?

[@shaengar7440]

The movies, like many others, have similarities, but it is hardly a copy.

[@MajerHawk]

It follows is trash

[@Reginald_Harrison]

Basically the entire 3rd act was a hallucination. This pretty much kills the franchise for me. Smile 1 was well balanced, and is a good standalone movie.

[@donnamurphy8551]

I have a couple questions about the end, but I don’t want to spoil it for anyone.

[@PhilomenaMerritt-e5e]

You're incredible, keep making videos!

[@vladdracul2379]

Simp!

[@thisismyname3928]

[@jarednil69]

Oooh now you're combining reviews with podcasts

[@JustTooDamnHonest]

Finally someone points out just how OP the entity is in Smile and it since it has the power to warp reality all around it or its victims how can anyone especially human beat this thing? The simple answer is you can't and I hate it when films go into straight up META for it breaks immersion of the story when you have real people in a film that centers around a supernatural entity.

[@JohnSmith-tk7nt]

I agree the monster is too powerful it risks taking away from the suspense... but in fairness they dont really reveal how powerful it is until the last scene. It does kinda give you the feeling that she never had a chance and it was all for nothing once its over but it didnt really take away from the suspense while youre watching since you think everything is real until the very end. I hate the CGI ending to both movies and theyre not "all time greats" or anything but both movies scared me with the second one being better imo. Also the scene in 2 with the dance troupe surrounding her in her apartment was one of the scariest scenes ive seen in a horror movie in memory. A lot of people are saying they thought it was funny but it creeped me out for days after watching that scene. I actually rewatched the scene on YT and it made me feel a little better cuz in the moment it absolutely had me terrified

[@solutionless123]

I thought in the end she would drown herself or imagine she was drinking water and drink something else or shove an object down her throat. I enjoyed the movie but it feels like the writing included multiple Chekov's guns that they just forgot about

[@howardroark3736]

My theory about this movie is that it was meant to be written as a bridge to a movie about an epidemic of people infected by the Smile demon. That’s why it feels like the runtime was just the demon killing time to get her to the concert alive. So it could infect a number of people all at once. Hopefully they don’t just walk that back😅

[@AngryPainting]

The trauma entity/demon went from Euclid to Keter class in record time.

[@Umcarasemvideo]

Unironically, it would be cool if the way to beat the smiling demon was to just ignore it. Granted that would require the entity to be unable to outright control people and the halucinations would have to be a more notable form of torment but by basically leaning on the creatures malicious need to cause trauma and suffering having the MC develop the disicpline to ignore it would be an interesting aproach. Have the smiles own vile nature and desire to hurt cause it to be unable to handle utter apathy. As the MC reacts less and less to the creature it becomes more desperate, the halucinations become more over the top in a vicious cycle of dissensitization until the smiler is basically stuck in it's own little hell tied to a person that it cannot "control". Finish with the MC having a horrific hallucination that just wash over them, while looking arround they notice the creature and then, instead of smiling, it sneers at them.

[@aw7400]

Exactly my thoughts on how a 3rd movie should play out. The entity latches onto someone who has seen and worked through so much trauma, or just isn't affected by it, and the hallucinations get more and more insane all while we watch the protag trying to keep his senses long enough to find a way to beat it for good. Maybe the protag even finds a way to interact within the hallucinations to defend himself, thus turning the creature's own power against itself.

[@simonnovak6832]

Please if you could review an absolute hiddem gem of 2020: The Empty man. Starring James Badge Dale as jaded detective who trying to uncover a lovecraftian cult in modern times.

[@doktorarkham1439]

Drinker, Mauler, and Reaper are great

[@liammorriss]

I need a good pint of whisky before watching any more films

[@olafgurke4699]

After thinking about it for a while, what would happen if one would kill themselves without anyone watching? Would smilo just fizzle out? Or would it prevent you from doing it?

[@aelsthlauinum9232]

My guess from assuming Morris was correct about everything he said and what happened after his meeting with the protagonist is if you did so in the first couple of days of the infection the smile would probably fizzle out (not without a fight but it probably doesn't have enough control to stop you), but if you take a few days before attempting it'll have enough control over you and your senses to prevent your attempts and at that point is really just milking the last bits of suffering out of you while considering who it wants for its next host.

[@fireironthesecond2909]

Sounds good ngl 👍

[@samtesla2248]

So they did a variation of "it was all a dream"...

[@gyorgyor7765]

No not exactly, some was a hallucination and some wasn't.

[@ab-gail]

Most of it was real though.

[@John-uh5et]

At a certain point would you not just get more annoyed/angry at this entity rather than scared?

[@truthbomb1809]

The voss water product placement was a bit much, ok film though.

[@DavidAnderson-m5c]

The Mona Lisa was Patient Zero.

[@JmannTW]

Creature creates false hope to feed more on desperation after character realizes that he lost. Creature basically marinating his prey - the more hope they lost the juicier victim become.

[@dilloncrain9111]

16:41 "Pale, gone and skinny. And just ILL." - how I describe Ariana Grande's looks