Driver’s View Tram 75 Vermont Sth to Camberwell Depot Melbourne Part 1

28 Minutes. Just a standard run except we run in to Camberwell Depot for a changeover. Part 2 will be the continuation to the city

[@Thetramspotter]

Without a doubt my favourite tram route, i have done a few trips from Vermont South to the city and back (being one of my closest tram routes to home, the other is rt. 109), love the speed and comfort of a B class tram and watching the city skyline slowly grow. Hopefully they eventually will extend it to Knox or somewhere more useful (e.g. Ringwood, Ferntree Gully).

[@tressteleg1]

I think the line is already too long if going to the city. People that far out get to the city very much faster by train. At this time I am not aware of any plans to extend any lines further. In fact some people out near Box Hill in the morning peak hours catch the tram away from the city to then get the train into the city, vice versa at night. The tram is too slow to go all the way.

[@kennethmartyn2563]

Do you drive both trams and trains, based on your videos?

[@tressteleg1]

I was a tram driver for 6 years but have also unofficially driven some electric and some diesel trains.

[@shaunm7458]

@@tressteleg1 Yes agreed. Vermont to City is too long, if there is some accident or heavy traffic, it's worst :(

[@tressteleg1]

There needs to be an interchange with the railway at Hartwell so the outer riders can get a much quicker trip to town.

[@katefromaust5627]

Love your videos too tressteleg1! I am familiar with Schony747 too. You are both so nice & accommodating. Not being from Melbourne & not being able to travel as much as I wish, your & Schony747's videos fill in alot of gaps for us non travellers! The editing must take your hours & we appreciate that. To you & Schony747, thanks so much for always letting us take the journey right along with you & keep them coming! Always brighten my day.

[@tressteleg1]

Thanks Kate. I will pass your kind words on to Schony747 who I have met a few times. 😊

[@katefromaust5627]

@@tressteleg1 Thank you so much!! That would be awesome. I have spoken with him via KZbin a couple of times. Keep up the great work!

[@tressteleg1]

😊

[@slycat1939]

I so enjoy your videos. I can't travel anymore but with your videos I can ride along and see the city I wish to see. Thanks for sharing your videos with us. God bless

[@tressteleg1]

I’m pleased that my videos help fill some gaps. You probably will find similar interesting videos by Schony747 on KZbin. He is a Southbank driver.

[@slycat1939]

@@tressteleg1 I have most all of his. looking for someone elses. do you know of anyone else who does them type of videos? Keep up the great videos I love them all. god bless.

[@tressteleg1]

slycat1939 Sorry. I know of nobody else. But ‘Sydney Trains Vlogs’ may be of interest. I am now creating Playlists to make finding each of my subjects easier to find. You may find some of mine missed before.

[@slycat1939]

@@tressteleg1 Ty I will check. I still like rewatching them all anyway ;) Hagd God bless.

[@jakartaman3365]

Great video. Always nice to catch up with my old town, even if it is via the internet. Seeing Camberwell town hall, the.junction and the Rivoli cinema sure brought back a lot of memories. Looking forward to part 2.

[@tressteleg1]

😊 I will probably do part 2 in the next few weeks.

[@geoffreymoore1510]

Thanks for another good ride. Enjoying these.

[@tressteleg1]

😊👍

[@RGC198]

Excellent video. I know this tram route quite well, as I live near Burwood East. Thanks for sharing.

[@tressteleg1]

👍

[@Tofoafelix]

The route of my childhood - 74 to Burwood. Agree your comments re tram stops. Should almost always be before, with car turn signals to clear traffic turning right as tram approaches. Have done the same stupid thing in Sydney...so you wait for lights and then have to stop for passengers. And a tram/train interchange at Hartwell always made sense.

[@tressteleg1]

I’m pleased you agree, especially about an interchange at Hartwell. The ride to town for people out the end of the Burwood line would be much speeded if travelling the second half of the journey by train. Unfortunately traffic light priority for trams has never got much attention in Melbourne with very little improvement on the lines I drove 26+ years ago. In fact the 96 is much slower than it was in my time. My local Gold Coast tram has near-absolute traffic light priority. Why can’t Melbourne have it?

[@wasupdoc1738]

I was waiting for it and you did. You passed my old workplace at Gilmour st on the left there, back n early 2000s. It was a different company back then.

[@tressteleg1]

😊

[@peterausfranken]

Nice Video. I knew the route as it was number 74 to Burwood. I went to Camberwell Primary School for 4 years (1969 - 1973). As a kid i knew one depot starter at Camberwell depot. So i could go almost everywhere in that depot. When i think this was all about 45 years ago - i must be geeting old🙈

[@tressteleg1]

Sadly we are all getting older faster than we want ☹️. I have emailed a former driver friend who was at Camber at that time. Unfortunately nobody is allowed free entry these days.

[@peterausfranken]

@@tressteleg1 Well yes i could see a lot of stuff at Camberwell depot then but i wasn't allowed to be everywhere and at anytime. The most time was only from a distance. We moved in 1974 from Camberwell to Coburg an after that time there was no chance to see much in the depots

[@tressteleg1]

They were probably more worried about you falling into the pits or otherwise getting hurt which would be hard for the Depot Starter to explain.

[@peterausfranken]

@@tressteleg1 Yes that was it.

[@tressteleg1]

👍

[@waynewhite2323]

Can remember riding the 75 to the end of the line for a special treat, Tim the Toyman's just round the corner in Warrigal Rd best toys & die cast models in town.

[@tressteleg1]

Probably history now, unfortunately.

[@Maurice-Navel]

Great! I saw Schony747's reverse/night-time video of this route. This one lets me see the neighborhoods shifting, and I also appreciate your asides pointing out details. About stops after lights: San Francisco is increasing this; my guess is that it speeds things up by requiring less double stopping (don't really know).

[@tressteleg1]

No doubt that is the hope, but if the tram stop is before the crosstreet often you only stop once. At least in some places with the stop before the lights when I drove, the transponder on my tram would hold the lights green for a number of extra seconds, long enough for a few people to get on and for me to move off off before going red. That could not apply with a stop after the street.

[@Maurice-Navel]

@@tressteleg1 Got it. I don't think the system here can do that.

[@tressteleg1]

If you can find a Muni driver one day who has some knowledge and is happy to talk to you, you may be able to ask him whether there is a little radio transmitter under the front of your cars which is activated by the driver to operate the points/switches. The ones on Melbourne trams have three tones - the normal tone playing all the time, a second tone to turn in one direction and a 3rd to go the other way. Melbourne technology exists, which you may see in some of my videos, one example being that when traffic lights change from one phase to the next, a seven second T light sometimes appears which lets the tram proceed before the next traffic light phase commences. Another technology which you may notice is that a tram nearing an intersection will sometimes cause a right turn green arrow to appear. If there are any vehicles wishing to make a right hand turn which would otherwise block the tram from proceeding, this clears the road and the tram can proceed straight ahead. Some T lights only appear in conjunction with traffic lights when a tram’s transponder activates this. Nevertheless there is no real desire in Melbourne to introduce absolute tram priority which operates at most locations on the Gold Coast line. At the best, in Melbourne the facilities above are about it.

[@Maurice-Navel]

@@tressteleg1 Muni drivers here are able in a small number of cases to connect with the intersection's traffic lights. Only a few intersections get that treatment, though. The most interesting is on the 33 line where it has to cross upper Market St. The electric bus has to have all traffic through the intersection stop so it can make a 180-plus turn! If the bus is a diesel (as when there is road work), then the driver has to actually lean out the window and push a button on the wall to accomplish this. Other than that, I've noticed it on the N Judah line at 9th Avenue. There may be a few others, but those are all I know of.

[@tressteleg1]

Melbourne has had various push buttons to activate traffic lights in the past but I’m not sure if any exist now. It does sound however that no matter how unhelpful traffic lights are to Melbourne trams, those in San Francisco are worse, unfortunately. If you hear more about what technology is used there, I’ll be interested to hear.

[@mickman3582]

I would think that a stop after the traffic lights makes sense because if the lights are green and it needs to make a stop, it's guaranteed that the tram will be able to go thru the intersection now without delay. If the stop is prior to the lights it could be delayed thanks to having a passenger board or disembark. The roads that intersect with Burwood hwy carry significant traffic so when those roads get green lights, they also get allotted a good amount of time. Also once Burwood hwy becomes Toorak Rd, you automatically get stuck in traffic

[@tressteleg1]

When I was driving trams in Melbourne, the technology did exist whereby the transponder signal of the tram could hold the traffic lights green for a limited amount of time which was enough for passengers to get on and off. That situation, tram stops before the intersection made perfect sense. I have not been able to determine if that technology is still working in Lygon street. There is little desire for the traffic light people to assist trams. What usually happens with stops after the tram is that the tram gets stopped at a red light then goes 50 m and stops again for the tram stop. Another disadvantage of stops after the intersection which is also obvious in the city centre of Melbourne is that as stops have to be long enough to accept several trams, the head of the tram stop may be 100 m beyond the intersection itself, a long way to walk in the rain if changing trams from a cross street. Melbourne has much unrealised potential. The problem with that part of Toorak Road is the parked cars blocking the road from two lanes down to one.

[@anmolmehta7116]

A lovely journey on the tram. Yes, after each traffic light the tram has to stop for passengers making it inconvenient for the tram driver. But I suppose that is the way it has been designed in Melbourne, Australia. You cannot blame the designers of the tram system as it was a well thought out plan from their point of view.

[@tressteleg1]

As I have said before, I think stops before the lights are more efficient. As a former driver, the only time you worry about being late is your final run before going home.

[@christopher-2000]

awesome

[@tressteleg1]

👍

[@paulbowers7343]

Traffic and hills just like downtown Kansas City!

[@Brianrockrailfan]

great video tressteleg1 :)

[@TheGoldTitan]

I never realised how hilly it is there, great line but it really slows down after Gilmour street :(

[@tressteleg1]

TheGoldTitan An easy rail connection at Hartwell would give a faster ride to town for outer area riders.

[@alkhymy]

Usually a good race between the 75 Tram and 732 Bus down Burwood Hwy to Station St. 75 came from way back to pull out a last gasp win on this occasion.

[@tressteleg1]

😊

[@petermolloy6142]

What is, or are, the significance of the white crescents on black discs that adorn every tram shelter and stop sign? I presume it’s to make the glass of the shelter and the metal of the sign more visible but … any other reason, please?

[@tressteleg1]

It’s the Moon meaning an all night service on Friday and Saturday nights. These operate only on routes with this sign. Some routes don’t run all night.

[@petermolloy6142]

@@tressteleg1 Thank you for that illuminating explanation!

[@Bobrogers99]

Why the change of trams at Camberwell Depot to continue into the city? While it wouldn't be cheap to implement, requiring parking areas behind shops rather than on-street parking along some sections would speed things up for everybody. I appreciate the little explanations along the way.

[@tressteleg1]

There presumably was some minor fault with the tram and that did not affect its overall operation but nevertheless needed attention. Sometimes faults appear that the passenger could not be aware of. I agree re parking behind the shops, but there simply maybe no available land, or nobody to pay for the costs of constructing parking sites.

[@Tonsley202]

Is it common to change trams with passengers onboard?

[@tressteleg1]

Changing trams mid route is not done on a whim. The driver or management must have some reason for it to be needed. Changeovers are done as conveniently as possible for the passengers, and nowhere would be safer than on a depot entrance. Another change takes place in the street in my Melbourne Trams 1983 Part 3 Video. This is in the street outside Kew Depot.

[@peterhooper7610]

Hi, I wondering to know did you get Part 2 of Camberwell Depot to Melbourne lately? PS Great video all the way! ;)

[@tressteleg1]

Probably I’ll do it Friday week. Glad you liked Part 1.

[@peterhooper7610]

@@tressteleg1 Ok that's cool Friday week no hurry!! Yes I like it part 1 video awesome!! Thanks ;)

[@cckc849]

LOL at the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang/Beverly Hillbillies jalopy spotted at 17:06.

[@multiranger748]

Wonder if the E class will get a run on this eventually

[@tressteleg1]

My casual observation is that E class are largely put where there is adequate power supply, and not necessarily closely related to loadings. While the 86 probably does warrant them, I would have thought that the 19 would come miles ahead of the 11 to West Preston. I think they have built all the Es they intend to, so for the 75 to get any they would have to ‘rob Peter to pay Paul’.

[@inklebert1]

@11:17 "Stops after traffic lights make no sense at all"... actually, it's perfectly logical: when the tram stops at a tram stop, it is not impeded by traffic on the cross-road, it can only be blocked once and the tram can proceed immediately after picking up/setting down passengers. Rather than possibly be stopped twice (where if the stop was before the cross road/traffic light, the tram could stop to pick up / set down passengers facing a green traffic light only to be stopped/delayed further if the traffic light goes red during that time).

[@tressteleg1]

Technology in Melbourne existed around 1990 where the transponder on the tram held the traffic lights green for a bit longer than usual which was helpful. Stops after the street all but guarantees stopping twice in Melbourne. Traffic light programmers do little to help trams there even when useful technology exists. On my local Gold Coast line both options exist but both work fine as largely the lights change for the tram when required wherever the street is so they rarely stop twice,

[@mattk183]

This would be the route of 75d? The shorter service

[@tressteleg1]

No. it would be a 75d if the service ended at the depot and passengers had to wait for the next tram from the city. This was a continuous service to Vermont South which for some reason required the first tram to remain at the depot, probably for some minor repair to be undertaken. It was simply a changeover en route.

[@blindpeteoz5673]

Wow, thanks! Still amazes me that trams can handle these steep gradients and trains can't !

[@tressteleg1]

Some Electric Trains probably could but lines have to be built for works and other trains to handle. Also trains would be geared for faster speeds so not so good on hills.

[@jovetj]

Trains are a lot heavier than a tram. A short train could probably do it, but stopping and starting on all these hills would make handling...problematic.

[@paulbowers7343]

A McDonald's on Vermont Street? Could be nearby in Lawrence, Kansas, USA...... except Lawrence, Kansas doesn't have trams!

[@kateconnell5198]

That the route my parents get on.

[@tressteleg1]

In that case I don’t really think they will want to watch this video 😊

[@jschroeder7728]

two nice pre war car in this. even pre war 1 i think

[@tressteleg1]

I noticed a few of them near the railway bridge. Presumedly there was some outing for vintage cars that day.

[@paulbowers7343]

Melbourne skyline off in the distance looks much like Kansas City downtown in the distance.

[@tressteleg1]

Ah, but does Kansas City have a thriving city centre full of shoppers 7 days/week? Melbourne does. 😊

[@paulbowers7343]

@@tressteleg1 Thriving city center (centre?)......well, not so much, and only a little light rail, recently opened. KC once had a tram system, up until 1930s, gave way to rubber tired busses. Bustling downtowns gave way to suburban malls, but of late much revitalization has taken place and entertainment and fine dining thrives.

[@tressteleg1]

Suburban malls have killed the business centres of most American cities. The last time I was in SFO there was nothing much of interest along Market St. and that is a city that still has great public transport centred on the city. I expect that NYC is pretty lively with shops, but not too many other places. While there are many suburban malls around our capital cities, they have not much affected city centres. If you want to get a bit of an idea of Swanson St which is just one of the 4 major city streets, take a look at my Driver’s View Tram 67 which you will find in my relevant Playlist. The first 10 minutes or so should suffice. This was taken about 5pm on a weekday.

[@paulbowers7343]

City centers are pretty much gone. We have lived in Topeka, Kansas since 1982 and they have been trying to revitalize the downtown area the whole time! Some progress has been made, but mostly in repurposing older buildings as loft apartments and a couple of old banks have been converted to night spots and brewery/pubs.

[@tressteleg1]

That is about all they can do. Once major shops disappear nothing will bring them back. I’m pleased we still have ours but I don’t know why they survived. Obviously people come and use them.

[@sanjeevpereira6765]

Would be super if the controls were shown thats the main thing

[@tressteleg1]

I took video clips looking into the cabs of various types of trams showing the drivers at work. Several classes were covered. I’ll look to see if I have enough for a video.

[@m31tdown]

5 years on and still no tram priority

[@tressteleg1]

Why go back only 5 years? Some tramways in Europe had tram priority 50 years ago. Giving priority to trams in Melbourne would be the worst nightmare for the traffic light programmers there.

[@m31tdown]

@@tressteleg1 I meant 5 years on from the creation of the video and no improvement to tram priority in Melbourne

[@tressteleg1]

@@m31tdown well I drove there 1988 to 1994 and occasionally I ride some of the lines I drove at that time, and my observation is that quite a few roundabouts have been replaced with traffic lights which usually delay trams while roundabouts did not. At the most, ‘7 second’ T lights have been added a a few locations. These lights slip a T light in when required between any 2 traffic light phases. The fact is, Melbourne has no locations where trams force a T light as they approach a set of lights.

[@roboftherock]

Can't work out why you changed the field of view at the beginning. It made no sense. Instead of captions at each stop, use a disclaimer at the beginning; e.g. 'all passenger alighting/boarding edited out'. If that clock at 19'00 was correct, then that was the evening 'rush hour'. I'm wondering how the need for a tram change was made known to the depot. I'll see you in Pt 2. [edited for typo]

[@tressteleg1]

A bit of telephoto let you see further ahead. Some people are particularly interested in the 12 time at stops and delays caused by traffic lights. Rather than sitting through boring sections of nothing happening if I needed it, I thought this the best compromise. Every train is fitted with a radio telephone system which is in contact with the operational centre. Weather management wanted to change over all the driver had a fault, I don’t know but communication between driver and depot would have been handled indirectly by an Operational Centre

[@tressteleg1]

That escaped during editing. Some people are interested in the dwell time at stops. Whether management wanted the change over or the driver had a fault but I don’t know. But the operational centre would have been in communication with the depot by telephone, and the tram driver via the radio telephone AVM. The video was made around midday on a Saturday.

[@kentallard8852]

The 75 shouldn't be going all the way to Vermont South, its a waste to spend that much on infrastructure in low density suburbia and it takes too long because once its off the lightrail and in traffic slows right down. A railway through Rowville form the Frankston/Pakenham line to the Belgrave line as the 1969 Melbourne Transport Plan outlined with buses circulating through the area from stations would be more effective.

[@tressteleg1]

The line would be much more useful if there were a tram-train Interchange station where the tram goes under the rail bridge at Hartwell (where the tram was delayed by all the cars).

[@berlinerspargel]

Sorry, the zoom is to much!

[@tressteleg1]

Sometimes I have to zoom to cut out tram body parts in the way. I’ll keep a watch on it.