Snow Battle! Subaru Forester Wilderness vs. Toyota RAV4 TRD Off-Road

[@michca2112]

I have been watching your reviews for over a year on the Forester Wilderness and Bronco Sport, since I was looking to replace my old Jeep. I actually couldn't make up my mind until I saw how the Forester really tackled various conditions with ease and yet came in at a lower price point (even with the package that give you heated seats, better speakers and power lift gate) than the Toyota or Bronco Sport mid-trim. I just bought the Forester Wilderness and I am absolutely loving it. Thank your for all your reviews!

[@ericchin739]

Solid choice! I'm on my second Subaru in a row. I'll never own another brand of car.

[@ledzep3692]

I Agree 👍...Mine will be arriving in two weeks.

[@MiriamBoldyreva]

Subaru Forester Wilderness the best👍🏼

[@MiniJeepers]

And, its gorgeous

[@muddywaters-c6l]

remember as long as you maintain the subaru it will never fail you, i know people who have 300plus k on the speedo and never had any major issues, just do your maintenance and it will last you a very very long time, i bought a 16yr old forester gave it a tune up and years later still no issue thank God. enjoy in good health

[@jeffduncan2942]

This is more of a tire test. They didn’t seem to have a clearance problem and they didn’t run out of power, as they were still turning over the tires. And yes I know you said you can’t change tires. But both would be so much more capable, for test purposes, with a more aggressive tire. Great video and thanks for making them

[@imblackmagic1209]

so much this, I've seen another channel do tests on tires, 4x4 with all terrains vs 4x2 with snow tires, 4x2 on snow tires killed the 4x4, tires are what makes or break traction, of you have the wrong tires, then any amount of tech and power a vehicle has doesn't matter

[@somestuffithoughtyoumightl6985]

That’s why I put real WildPeaks on my Outback Can’t wait to test them out!

[@paulholterhaus7084]

AND Why I put DMV2's on Year round.............Paul

[@neildeatherage2269]

@@imblackmagic1209 Absolutely well said. If anyone reading this needs new tires and your ride can accept Mich. Cross Climate 2, couldn't recommend this tire enough such a game changer

[@steve8803]

@@neildeatherage2269 yes, tires certainly matter. With equal tires, the Subaru is far superior in these tests.

[@LateCloser]

I live in Buffalo, NY. I'm on my second RAV4, been driving them for 23 years straight. I can confirm they do well in snow. Even with stock tires. Have yet to get stuck. I even drive them to the Adirondack mountains for hunting trips. :)

[@danbeit-halahmi2515]

This RAV4 of mine is 2017 model, and my third Toyota car, I live in NY state and we get at times a lot of snow (up to 8 to 10 inch) and if you know a little bit about driving in snow, I never ever needed to shovel or get this car out of anything, put it in AWD and just go...

[@roberttompkins9510]

Did you have the base model

[@Studio89Graphic]

With 7,000 USD difference in the Two and Clearance; I would go with the Subaru of any Forester and drive the Subaru for 20 years then buy a brand new Subaru Forester 2025 Japan Made; vs. RAV4 America; with the Interests and/or Capital Gain that we/I have in the Subaru; In fact I could purchase even in 2020 Brand New Forester and then resell the 2020 to get the 2025 Forester Wilderness which will have been completely Changed in Style and Trims and Powers.

[@sahilchaudhari9877]

Live in Buffalo NY and own a RAV4 2020 AWD. No problems with the snow!

[@ineverknow9917]

Love your channel. You're not scared of saying what you think of things which is very refreshing. One thing that is frustrating to me on all vehicle reviews is comparing them. If you want to test tires, put them on the same spec vehicles. You want to test AWD or 4-wheel drive systems, put the same tires on both. I don't care what the stock tires compare like. I want to know if I throw snow tires on the Subaru and the Toyota, which is going to perform better. You can put any tires on any vehicle so I want to know which traction system will work the best on what tire I decide to change it to. Just my 2 cents.

[@mesabman]

I totally agree with you because if you have different tires on the vehicles being compared, it will never be a fair comparison.

[@RodgerCastaneda]

Its surprising to me how well these 2 did, especially considering inadequate tires. Amazing performance, fantastic driving. I am impressed how well both vehicles performed.

[@Lowlandelf]

By far the most fair and realistic reviews on KZbin.

[@WontSeeReplies]

…without the same tires on each? Not suggesting a Toyota is good off-road. They aren’t good for much beyond getting groceries. Still an unfair test anytime the tires are different, unless the manufacturers request it.

[@dennissmith7214]

@@WontSeeReplies Yes and no, run what you brung is the one way to look at it because that’s how they come from the factory but to say one system or vehicle is better without putting the same tires on is unfair…….you can have a better system overall and if a manufacturer gets a “deal” or is has a relationship wit one tire manufacturer it could hamper a better system because of it. I would like to see a channel actually test with the same tires to see which vehicles are best in these situations be after that first set of tires most people don’t get what the manufacturer sends it out with! 🤔🤷🏽‍♂️

[@tlingiter]

@@WontSeeReplies tires are everything. Wouldn't hurt to have a good driver either lol

[@kylehurlbrink]

Should have swapped and had the rav4 run first on the second test.

[@formanaliuzdenoff6323]

Absolutley

[@ianjay1111]

As a 2020 rav4 TRD owner..I’m always biting my nails with these reviews. 😅 This is by far the best car/suv review channel in KZbin! Keep it up!

[@galret9899]

As a Forester owner, all I can say is: thank you for doing this for us. It's nice to know what it can do! Thank you.

[@MsJamesnorton]

Yeah getting dug out it sure helped it look better

[@langstonwadeellis-wt3tx]

Loved this comparison! The fact both vehicles made it up the hill was awesome. I’m a Subaru fan, so I’ll take the Subaru…but the Toyota is impressive.

[@truckerrickakamanowar]

I agree. The Rav 4 is no slouch.

[@muddywaters-c6l]

shout out to my brother n sister subaru fans! im a firm believer in subaru, theyve been doing the same exact engine for past 60yrs should tell you something

[@toddwanous2356]

Great comparison! It would be fun to do it again with Blizzaks on both vehicles.

[@fubartotale3389]

It better be for 20% more bank.

[@jeffreya8329]

The rav4 is great for soccer moms in the city thats about it

[@scottharris9318]

Thanks for your videos. We bought a 2022 Subaru Forester Wilderness in large part due to your test videos. It replaces a Jeep JK Wrangler. Very nice vehicle and I don’t miss the endless repair expenses.

[@paulsumpter9573]

My wife & i Just bought a '23 Outback Wilderness due in large to your excellent reviews. We love it. Thanks for your outstanding videos and keep up with your cardio...looks like you're getting quite the workout there. Ha!

[@quantumfzx]

Your channel is the reason I bought my Forester sport back in 2021. I have 0 regrets with my choice. I live in the mountains where it snows a lot and I have no issues getting anywhere. Thanks for the great reviews. I enjoy watching your comparisons with the Forester and other cars.

[@Studio89Graphic]

We live in Weather Cold ─ Minus -40°F/C sometimes and the Subaru Legacy 1992 Model ─ with less than 1/2 hour plug-in Block-heater it can run on right away; except once it was so cold the Tire went Flat .. then all we had to do was driving to the Station and Pumped new air then since that until now the Winter-tires/Rims replaced/Rotated (Bridgestone Japan Made imported ─ Of Course then the Label Heavy Fuji Industry still was the Trademark of the Subaru Brand. The total cost of Ownership and repairment was like 16-17k Dollars and only some wiring needed to be rewired ─ when we went to the Dealership Subaru to have the Timing-belt changed ─ Original since 1992; The Technician Mechanics said the Timing-belt was older than she was - Oh My G! 😂 😂...

[@deller5924]

Have you experienced any technical issues with your 2021 Forester? Thank you!

[@quantumfzx]

@@deller5924 Nope, no technical issues as of yet. Still running strong.

[@deller5924]

@@quantumfzx Awesome.

[@calpolyca]

@@quantumfzx Which model Forester did you get? I'd like to get one, but just wondering if the upgrades and price are worth forking out for the Wilderness model vs Premium. Especially if the lower-priced models work just as well in heavily snowed areas. Thanks

[@kevincraftsbcs4488]

I love how hard Ryan works to make it up the course. I think many other testers would have thrown in the towel. I am impressed how well both vehicles performed.

[@formanaliuzdenoff6323]

Ryan real show man))) He needs bigger show ..but dont forget about Nickki..alright?))

[@wildbill23c]

The other "testers" would have stopped as soon as they spun a tire. Course a certain group of testers are blacklisted by Subaru, which is great as they can't do a fair review to save their lives anyways....Ryan does such a great job in his real world reviews.

[@mrvwbug4423]

@@wildbill23c They got blacklisted for damaging an Outback press car, because the route to their old off road test hill has a section that will pinstripe any vehicle. They finally opted to buy a piece of land and construct an off road course.

[@Altarofwater]

The guy used all the momentum with Subaru and none with the RAV4

[@formanaliuzdenoff6323]

@@Altarofwater toyota fans see momentum at subaru but i see how careful about toyota they are)

[@Letsgofinance]

Just got my 24 FW yesterday and I’m stoked to find these videos of I’m field reviews instead of just salesmen in a parking lot talking about it. Kudos!!

[@MikaOllikainen-ow1wf]

A good shovel in the trunk is a must, and, the right tires! Thanks for a good show! 😊 👍

[@NudlemanJones]

I bought a FW last year after watching Ryan's deep snow comparisons vs. the Trailhawk. Love the darn thing . . .

[@mrvwbug4423]

the Compass isn't the real Trailhawk, for that you need the Cherokee or GC, they are the only two Trailhawk models with low range and a locker. The FW won't touch the Cherokee TH in an off road situation

[@NudlemanJones]

@@mrvwbug4423 Well those models aren't the proper comparisons / competition, are they? I hope you feel real good that you believe the FW would not be able to "touch" such models in off-road situations.

[@davidheller7919]

@@mrvwbug4423 ...and the Forester isn't meant to! How many more thousands of dollars did you spend on your TH?? $20,000+ MORE for the GC Trailhawk!!! For that much more money I'd get a boat with a trailer.

[@pacattack81]

I love these Forester Wilderness videos and your videos are so much better than TFL. Keep up the good work! 😎

[@BowmanOverland]

Dude TFL is a bunch of tools. #sorrynotsorry. Ryan is so far above them on every level

[@rstefoni]

So spot-on comment. TFL was great

[@TheBabadush]

It’s not hard to be better than tfl.

[@gmac8852]

Tfl is crunchy. They suck

[@jkid4855]

TFL is biased against Subaru. Ryan is not biased toward a brand. That's the difference. Plus Ryan is much less annoying.

[@jaybou007]

I have a colleague who strapped proper winter studded Nokian Normans on the Wilderness. This thing can follow my Wrangler absolutely anywhere in light to medium difficulty trails. We struggle finding country trails where the Subie can’t make it. Impressive car. A tad thirsty, however.

[@yarrim]

No matter the vehicle, the key to driving or climbing in the snow is winter tires, winter tires and winter tires, especially if you ride in wet snow.

[@alozano793]

That wet snow is a monster of its own.

[@gandalfthemead3121]

I bought my first Subie in 2018. I drove it across America and back. It did very well and I put it through the paces with all the safety features. I have taken it in some dirt and snow and it just wants to climb. The all wheel drive has saved me from one crash and the second crash was smaller than what could have happened. Even though it sits high with the ground clearance the all wheel drive had me sticking to the road when I had to swerve hard to avoid these accidents. The parts for replacement after the wreck were economical. I have a 10 year 120k mile warrantee on this and I am gifting it to my grandson as soon as it is paid off. Looking at the wilderness model for myself and then I can take him off road with me and have some family Subie fun!

[@igregmart]

I picked the 22 Forester Wilderness over the Toyota. Great visibility all around.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Yeah, if they were the same price I would get the RAV4 every time, but with with the Forester being $7k cheaper, I would definitely lean towards the Forester because the RAV4 isn't $7000 better.

[@billricheter5678]

@@mrvwbug4423 I think the rav 4 is overpriced and not that well built

[@rickeycooley9139]

@@mrvwbug4423l don’t know?

[@devil2jz500]

Until it blows a head gasket or the CVT transmission 😂

[@gulammohiddin5747]

@@mrvwbug4423 I think the 7k difference is actually justified if you look at the reliability of the Toyotas. Toyotas are more reliable than Subarus for sure. Subaru's boxer engines are prone to head gasket failures and servicing them is expensive when the moment arrives.

[@lynnesmith3691]

I already own a Toyota and from snow country. I was interested in how the Subaru did in the snow and how it stacked up to the Toyota. My choice is still a Toyota but I really enjoyed the different performance of each vehicle. Well done. Both vehicles are very good and their performance is superb. Thank you for this informative demo!

[@toddmanning7844]

Great video Ryan. A real world test that stretches these 2 vehicles. They are not 4Runners or Wranglers, but it's good to know they'll work well in the snow belt as an excellent all-around vehicle.

[@VtoGarage]

Go cry with you awesome Toyota’s

[@ahmetsevik]

Most honest review. It is clear that you dont try to sell car with helping reviews. Thanks...

[@MegaRetr]

That was probably your most exciting video yet.

[@groosbro1]

Tires make a huge difference. I have a 2020 WRX that came with summer tires, I had to drive on them through a very light snow, and it was like driving on ice. As soon as I switched to winter tires the difference was dramatic. There was traction in snow, and on mixed snow and ice.

[@Brian-um9zz]

live in CO and you will know the diff...

[@stan916]

Same experience! I picked up mine at the end of February on a beautiful sunny day. That same afternoon we got a ton of snow and I decided to pickup my wife from the subway station. That was... stressful. But with the winters that car was a small tank, minus the ground clearance of course.

[@lonewolf82007]

I own a 2020 Forester, and love it, but both vehicles are beasts! Nice job!

[@ncadvr]

I like that when you show a front view the audio matches what you are saying.

[@LookingRound]

Glad you were able to disable Toyota's sensor alert beeps. They were so annoying. 25:50

[@billk5864]

Toyota’s new Torque Vectoring all wheel drive is quite impressive. I have it in my 2021 limited Highlander and after owning four Subarus I don’t feel like I’ve lost anything. In fact the Toyota feels more sure footed to me than anything else I’ve drove. My son bought a 2022 RAV 4 Adventurer after owning a Subaru, and he feels the same.

[@Martin944turbo]

Interesting! I've been a Subaru owner for the past 12 years and thinking of trading in my 2021 Subaru STI for the 2022 RAV4 TRD edition because my kids are getting bigger. Looking forward to trying the Toyota AWD going to ski hills and stuck in blizzards; I'll definitely get Nokian or Michelin winter tires.

[@jeffreya8329]

Rav4 is perfect for the city, if you want to go offroad every now and then you pick the forester, better clearance and awd system

[@Martin944turbo]

Also looking at the 2024 Forester Wilderness edition, hard to beat yes! @@jeffreya8329

[@Reed81315]

I got my FW because of Ryan's videos. I also got to learn the basics of soft roading from them too as a added bonus!

[@martinr8278]

Great choice. Out of my price range but after watching these videos…….Subaru wilderness all the way🏆🥇

[@souichikawana419]

Thanks for the great video as always, Ryan! I would like to see another competition with the same brands of proper snow tires.

[@BillKotraba]

I went from 2010 forester to 2020 RAV4 le awd. Subaru wanted around $3,000 to pull engine and change valve cover gaskets. With the RAV4, spark plugs, valve cover are on top. You get timing chain, electric water pump(believe 3 bolts to change it),. OH! 8 spd trans with manual shift. On the RAV4, I put JP Adventure lift to increase ground clearance and 245/65x17 Faulkner Wildpeak at3. Don’t think can go that big on forester. I like the forester, until time for maintenance! The RAV4 has ALOT of torque steer when you get on it. I like them both!

[@atticstattic]

_Falken_ Wildpeak

[@prawnshop4573]

You can get used low millage engines at jdm exporters for 1800 cad already with a new timing chain and cam gears set. 😊

[@lizcolton9936]

Excellent comparison! I've been looking at both the Rav4 & Forester. Too bad they don't have a demo model to take to the snow to test drive. Thank you for this video. I just purchased the 2024 Forester - I hope it does just as well.

[@shoveljunk-americanpatriot7603]

It comes down to personal preference. Our family likes Subaru. I took off from a rainy intersection in our forester. Right hand turn, she barely slipped and we were on our way ahead of approaching traffic. Our son-in-law and daughter went to a dinner party in Alta, Ca. While other vehicles were spinning their tires the Subarus were “killing it” up the hill.

[@KevinSmith-wr1sy]

Your reviews are just awesome. How can I watch a fluffy on-road review after seeing hardcore content like this?

[@jameso6404]

Solid vids. I enjoy this channel because they just do not do easy "consumer reports" trails when testing their vehicles. This snowy hill would give even Wranglers and 4 Runners a run for their money. Most people wouldn't push their cars even this far. I purchased a Wilderness Outback after seeing it go up against a 4Runner (which I owned) in another vid.

[@tangodown2721]

Got a forester sport for my wife. I feel much better with her and my daughter driving in the winter. It's awd really is impressive.

[@Maryland_Kulak]

I’ve had my 2023 Forester Wilderness for about a year and a half. I have a remote property in West Virginia. This winter I have needed every bit of the Forester Wilderness just to get up the logging road to where I’m building an off grid cabin. It just snowed a foot. The incline is 15 degrees in places. Basically it’s this scenario.

[@johnmaas4298]

Reliability depends on end user for the most part. Maintenance and driving habits. Although that said if you look at factory recalls Toyota and Subaru fair very well. Just take care of vehicle and do the routine maintenance and it could last longer than you want it too🎉

[@K5757-d9q]

This is not entirely true. Most Stellantis brands (Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep) aren't reliable, regardless.

[@Starf2022]

Hmmm what preventive maintenance to do for your engine to last more than 200k before the head gasket get blown and etc that comes with those boxer engine while toyotas keep runing for ever...

[@SenorGato237]

The stock tires on the Forrester Wilderness are beasts. One of the biggest advantages the Wilderness has.

[@puffdc]

they're actually snow rated, snowflake symbol that is

[@SenorGato237]

@@puffdc For OEM tires, on something that isn't a Wrangler or Bronco, they're really good.

[@gs98999]

Snowflake symbol by itself doesn’t mean a ton. Only a slight traction improvement needed to meet that threshold. Huge range exists within tires with snowflake category

[@user-ql3ge2us4s]

@SFRJ agreed. The rubber is slight more compliant in lower temp and traction is only tested in a straight line.

[@WildernessForever]

My Wilderness turned over to a thousand miles yesterday. Got stuck driving 70 miles home in a blizzard. Not one mistep from this vehicle. So impressed.

[@Databyter]

I am a Subaru fan and I have a Wilderness Outback. I have to say, other than the clearance I think the Rav4 system is pretty good. That was a heckuva challenge and a lot of holes and ditches to fall into. That being said, the Subaru with it's better clearance and better tires was the obvious winner here. But I wouldn't say the Rav4 failed in any way. With a dedicated owner used to how it responds, perhaps some slightly better tires, perhaps aired down, it might have made it up. Especially if the Rav4 can fitted with tires a few sizes up by a new owner, which I do not know if that's possible due to wheel well clearance issues.. I know I went two sizes up on my Wilderness immediately and never looked back. No rubbing. It has raised my ground clearance to over 10" without a lift. It really helps. And I have the real Falken AT Trails with the Severe Snow three peak rating. I wonder if the Rav4 version at least has the M+S rating at least, because where I live you need at LEAST that on a passenger AWD to be allowed to travel on snowy highways without chains during our R1 and R2 conditions. And chains usually are not recommended for AWD's, and on many of them, like my Subaru, they are basically forbidden due to both AWD and Clearance issues. I carry them with me to comply with the law, but I am not required to install them because I have the winter rated tires. The minimum to be considered a winter rated tire in California IS the M+S rating, the Three Peak Rating is far above that being not just snow and ice rated, but SEVERE snow and ice rated. It's not just the tread, but the rubber formulation which has to stay pliant and somewhat soft even in cold weather. This is expensive so I guess Toyota was economizing on their material, a poor decision in my opinion. If you're going to go with a brand model, don't skimp on it's full features. Anyway I digress. I thought BOTH vehicles did really well, and both have certain advantages. If the Rav4 had better tires and clearance it would have given the Subaru more of a run for it's money because it also has a fine AWD logic, with a superior clutched differential system in back, paired with a traditional transmission that is more bullet proof while attacking obstacles. Databyter

[@kimdecell5096]

My 2005 forster and good snow tires,manul shift would leave them way behind. 😆

[@matthewdavis2549]

What size did you put on your outback?

[@Databyter]

@@matthewdavis2549 I put 245/65/17's on Motegi 17x7.5 wheels. Falken AT Trails. the NON LT version for crossovers which are tough, but lighter than LT's

[@Qis4Question]

RAV4 can take 245/65/17 without a lift. Something I'm planning on doing for my wife's RAV4 once she needs new tires@@Databyter

[@OvieCharest-kd8ou]

I love these real-time videos. Thank you, sir

[@6denashi608]

Great comparison video as always. I'm glad to see Toyota narrowing the AWD capability gap with Subaru. I have personally purchased 6 Subies over my lifetime, due to their awesome performance in snow. But with a total of 7 head gasket failures between the 6 vehicles, I have migrated to Toyota. So far so good. Still have a soft spot for the Subies; just won't fork over any more money to them.

[@bgmpt]

Ditto here with 3 head gasket failures on 5 Subarus and probably the only reason the other 2 didn't fail is because one was sold early and the other was totalled early. I'm in the Toyota camp now and won't be going back to Subaru.

[@Studio89Graphic]

@@bgmpt We have had no Head-G at all on all of our Sub-Legacy 1990-1992 Model Ls and L... In fact our 1992 had the Original Timing-Belt since 1992 until 2019... Mostly all Parts and Engine are org. including the Winter Tires+ Rims Bridgestone Winter-Tires 4 of them still Origin and we rotate to Summer Tires/Rims. FYI Subaru BRZ are the one Subaru Gave the "Know-how" Technology to Toyota. A Friend had a Sub GL/ DL last forever ... Then 1986 Turbo XT was among the Best "World Rally Racing Cars" Not many Sedan Toyota knew then how to make good 4x4 Racing Vehicles/Cars. Cheers,

[@bgmpt]

@@Studio89Graphic How many miles did you put on the car in that period from 1992 to 2019? Also, where is the geographical location that you ran the car?

[@wholeNwon]

Exactly!!!!!!!

[@damienbell3155]

I worked at both Subaru and toyota Lexus. From 00-05 Subaru, I hated changing out transmissions on the foresters and doing the head gaskets valve cover gskt. Went to toyota L in 09-17 but have been a mechanic for 25 yrs , I rarely ever seen a Rav -4 come in for anything , just typical maintenance. I’ve really impressed with toyota I’ve worked at Volvo,Suzuki, Mazda , bmw, Mercedes , dodge, Honda, jeep, Hyundai/kia and Chevy/gmc. Was impressed with only Volvo till 03 then ford purchased them and gutted them. There slowly trying to come back. But yah I would choose toyota Lexus over all car brands. I own rx350, es300, sequoia and a Corolla. Enough said lol. I’m in Alaska There are hundreds upon hundreds of 19- and newer raves here. Subarus had the title in 80-90-2000 but Toyotas have taken the thrown. Mpg is another point to why so many r being purchased.

[@arunakalu]

Basically looking at this, it is the tires that matters most. I have the Toyota RAV4 2021, but I changed it to real Wildpeak tires with 3 mountain peak rating. This December we drove in the snow and ice of the Canadian Rocky Mountains, the Icefileds park way and it did it. owned a Subaru XT 2017 too, loved that vehicle too, but got the RAV4 because it can tow upto 3500 lbs, and now we have a 2500lbs camper. Also the RAV looks better, for me personally 🙂

[@lilpeppa117G]

The rav4 is shit seats are hard as a rock,loud and noisy the engine is a little punchy but sounds like its throwing a bearing while doing so the awd systems are to quick to deactivate

[@moloono1]

Congrats on your RAV4. Definitely a great buy. I agree with the looks too.

[@Databyter]

Anything after 2020 in the Subaru Outback XT line, or others with the Turbo powered engine, will also tow 3500. Most Rav4's that are not Adventure trim or TRD will only tow 1500 I think. But if you tow alot I think I'd be more comfortable with a traditional transmission in the Rav4, especially since you can change the oil and maintain it. Subaru says to NOT change the CVT fluid on their vehicles. If you tow, I think it is smart to change the fluid more often. Subaru America claims that this is basically never needing to be changed. Maybe 60-90 K if you do. I figure if you are towing a lot at close to capacity, it should be 4 times as much.

[@default7950]

@@Databyter The Warranty and Maintenance booklet says, "When the vehicle is frequently operated under severe driving conditions**, CVT fluid replacement (if applicable) should be performed every 24,855 miles (40,000 km)." **Examples of Severe Driving Conditions: [pretty much anything other than leaving it parked]

[@Databyter]

@@default7950 Mine says THIS, and I used Copy and Paste directly from the Owners Manual of my 22 Outback Wilderness. "Warranty and Maintenance Booklet Continuously Variable Transmission Fluid-There is no fluid level gauge. It is unnecessary to check the continuously variable transmission fluid level. However, if necessary, consult your SUBARU dealer for inspection." Under the Maint. schedule it says 36K and 66k, or each 24K if under severe driving conditions which is NOT everything other than parked, but includes most notably TOWING. And it also says somewhere that this is a function that should be performed by your dealership. It is not recommended to change CVT oil yourself, although, personally I would after researching the procedure, which should be straighforward. However if there are maintence anti tamper seals that may void warranties, you're better off getting it done to protect your warrantee in SOME situtations. Databyter

[@SasquatchChief]

Tires make the biggest difference on snow. Without traction, you don’t go anywhere. The beep might be Lane Keep Assist. There’s a settings menu where you can turn them off.

[@sbukosky]

I'm on my fourth Subaru, but have respect for Toyota. Grandaughter has a new Rav 4 with Gramps's approval.

[@trailmonstah1892]

Get over yourself. Your granddaughter def smarter than you for picking a YOTA 😂

[@brucey5585]

Toyota only made it because they stole subaru awd tech when they own 30% of subaru. Notice how toyota suddenly have all cars awd and not using their old reliable awd system like the 4runner and land cruiser.

[@warweaponx6629]

You’d still be on your first Toyota if you’d have bought one.

[@iffykidmn8170]

@@warweaponx6629 👍

[@coryducey2650]

I generally lease because hey...new car smell more frequently 😜😜. My 4th Toyota and on my second Rav4 LE AWD. Great winter car. Running Blizzaks and no issue in the winter.

[@PeterCoy]

I am driving my fifth Subaru so I am obviously a big fan. The Toyota surprised me, it's better than I thought, but the Subie would be my choice because I have virtually no issues. My current 2017 Legacy sport model still looks like new. Thanks for a great test!

[@jackhackett6827]

I have had 4 Subarus over the years and for me the secret of their success was the fact the all-wheel drive system was symmetrical.

[@unclej3910]

Where i live in Colorado, Subarus are everywhere. Because they go in snow better than most all other vehicles, and have good gas mileage.

[@maxxbenzz7842]

As opposed to Asymmetrical

[@onedankind]

It's a shame the forester wilderness didn't get the same engine as the outback

[@Mpompi315.]

So true.

[@Kiss__Kiss]

Exactly, Otherwise I would have purchased one.. In a flash!!!

[@onedankind]

@@Kiss__Kiss To be fair. It would probably increase the price by 10% or more. So maybe it's alright they didn't. An option would be nice. Especially for those at high altitude. That turbo would really help.

[@Kiss__Kiss]

@@onedankind Even at only 10% more of a cost, I still would have purchased one.

[@kpcasey]

Rav4 has about 20 more HP, 10 more tq than the WIlderness. Add in the comfy stuff, and the 10 extra Cu Ft of room behind 2nd row, is it worth the $6k extra?

[@kingpin461]

This review feels like a movie. So interesting. 👍🏾

[@DK-vx1zc]

Its surprising to me how well these 2 did, especially considering inadequate tires. Amazing performance, fantastic driving.

[@Databyter]

Yeah, the Raptor is a monster, and it had to plow up that last hill in worse conditions. But the other cars have one advantage the Raptor, and other 4x4's don't have, and that is their much reduced weight. Those cars are very light vs their traction capabilities, and would have been even better slightly aired down. The Bronco is a superior beast, but at least half of that added power and 4x4 capability HAS to be there to handle the significantly increased weight of those systems themselves. This is why if you have a Bronco sport, Subaru Outback or Forester, or Rav4, the last thing you want to do is defeat your biggest advantage, and loade it up with 800 more pounds of offroad crap like winches and roof tents etc. That's fine if you are just camping on fireroads, but if you want to go thru soft sand and snow, or really rutted terrain, or steep inclines, you want to keep as light as possible, because that is your ace in the hole. You are a billy goat. I carry a minimal amount of emergency tools, a tow hitch, super lightweight snow chains that are just for legal requirement show, and s kinetic tow rope. Then I have food and water, an electic cooler and a power station with solar panels. And that is ALL I will carry. I bought everything with weight in mind and although it would be nice to have twice the gear and clothes and tents, it would mess up my MPG and my ability to soft road harder trails. Databyter

[@MrSmith-rk4jq]

the geolandars are actually pretty great in snow from my experience on them the last two winters

[@Databyter]

@@MrSmith-rk4jq Agreed. I don't have extensive experience with them but I bought my car in the winter about an hours drive from snow, and I went thru some foot high snow, that had even thicker drifts from plowing, and I had to park on a shoulder that was very deep with ruts and was basically deep snow. I thought it might have been hard to get out of their when I got back to my car, but just like when it drove in, it drove right out. I didn't use Xmode. Didn't need to air down. And because of traffic I was stuck driving on this shoulder field area for quite a ways before I could get back into traffic. Not exactly an extensive winter test, but enough to tell that these tires had NO problem in snow. I did however sell them with a few hundred miles on them for the Falkens two sizes bigger and never looked back. Both are great tires. I think the Falkens stand taller, both physically and metaphorically. Databyter

[@pavelvasin9137]

Tyres really inadequate. Especially on Toyota

[@ozzierabbit587]

@@pavelvasin9137 Yes, the tread didn't look at all aggressive.

[@GlycerinZ]

I have a 2001 Subaru Legacy GT Limited 5MT and it's so amazing in the snow. I taught myself how to snow drift with this car many years ago.

[@rickymcdaniel7971]

Yesterday, I drove my Mazda CX-30 in the snow. Plowed roads with an inch or two of snow and sometimes some ice. It did very well. It was fun seeing the looks on the faces of the guys driving their jacked up jeeps. I've got a 4WD F-150 but the Mazda gets 10 more MPG and I didn't expect to run into as much snow as there was.

[@buckbuchanan5849]

Don't think I caught any discussion about power or lack of power for either model. In your assessment, did each one have enough for this outing? Thanks for posting, your channel is the best!

[@bosse641]

A Forester with a flat 6 and manual transmission would be a fun car to own.

[@dherz0983]

Love the Subi and all your videos! Would really love to see how some real winter tires would rock the course and how big the differences are. Something like the Hakkapeliitta…

[@3211Co]

What an awesome review! Enjoyed it till the end... Thank you!!

[@dimitrisntouzos8615]

Great videos ,but when you make a comparison it would be better to use same tyres on both vehicles.both are poor tyres for the conditions, but Subaru tures seems getting better grip. Great videos,keep up the good work we love it 👍👍

[@SaxonTerror]

Ryan you are awesome, no other car reviews are like this!!!

[@grumpy1311]

We purchased a 2022 subaru forester in November. 2200 miles to date We also have a 2010 forester with 220k miles on it . The older car has dedicated snow tires that are 3 or 4 seasons old. This car will do circles around the newer one due to the snow tires vs stock tires. Good review and good driving 👍

[@RedPanther2030]

I have never had an issue with the RAV, although I switched my tires to Toyo AT3. I even went to a super muddy situation where I had a friend got his FJ stuck in mud, I was able to pull him out with the RAV. I was surprised it was handling things smoother than the FJ. But In the end, it all depends on the driver and how you can get out of a situation.

[@drivingsports]

Tires are everything.

[@RedPanther2030]

@@drivingsports Big part of off-roading is the tires. You can have the best 4x4 on earth and you still can get stuck with bad tires and unexperienced driver.

[@Databyter]

FJ'S are super heavy for their size. They are very capable, but the advantage of the Rav4 is that you've got a lot of traction and very little weight to bog you down.

[@Ricksnet2008]

Forester for me... I wish it had more HP/faster acceleration on the road, but it works wonders off road

[@huntstyle]

Anxious to see what they bring in '24. I've read that it'll be a new generation.

[@WildernessForever]

And does just fine as far as acceleration . It's not a freaking Corvette.

[@Ricksnet2008]

@@WildernessForever Yes a Forester with 500 HP would be hilarious, but all I meant was if they can make the Outback XT... would love that to come to the Forester.

[@alozano793]

Yeah no doubt on the acceleration. Scared me a couple times in dicey merging situations where I couldnt get to speed confidently. Pray and throttle!

[@firefly9838]

I bet you could squeeze out another 20 to 30 hp with some aftermarket tuning and minor upgrades to the engine.

[@joeydelgado6119]

A side note about winter tires: In my personal experience, studless snow tires like Blizzaks excel with on road conditions like nothing else. In off road conditions like this where there is a mix of mud thrown in, the tread pattern becomes packed with mud and they become useless. As they start spinning, they hit rocks below and the rocks destroy the tread (don't ask how I know lol). I have found that a studded winter tire performs much better in these conditions and if you ever encounter conditions like this, adding chains to your kit, although not a 100% guarantee it will more than likely get you thru most of what you will throw at it.

[@Dogs538]

I was driving to a ranch, elevation about 11,000. I rented a Forester. The drive up was gravel, one lane (BIG dropoff on one side) and The Subaru did a fantastic job, even when I met a UPS Truck coming down! I fell in love with it.

[@tinhinnh]

I like the look of the TRD Off-Road

[@chrisbennett1037]

You if I was to go smaller SUV again and I was looking now it would be the TRD off road with over 200 HP and a real 8 speed transmission and the only thing id own again in a Subaru is the turbo engine as it makes enough HP to make you forget about how bad the CVT is. Id never again consider something like my 2020 Forester Premium with a CVT and 182 HP just not enough that little HP+CVT makes it sluggish unless you flogg it... mine has 2 modes.. Flogg it and youre ok but it sounds like your trying to kill the Hamsters on that wheel in the engine... or drive it like you would any regular transmission car and the HP+CVT= you driving along like a 80 year old grandmother trying to figure out their first traffic circle they encountered..

[@stopthebs77]

It succkkkksssss, trust me. I agree they look really awesome, particularly the TRD trim, but the drive quality and interior is absolute shitttt. It was shocking and sooo disappointing as I was gonna buy one 😢😢😢😢

[@marcloveall]

I absolutely love your videos Ryan, Nick does a great job as well! I’m a Subaru fan boy owning a 2015 WRX but very much approve of the new RAV4

[@easyrider2581]

the fact that this snow test was made with summer tires, impresses me even more

[@Tribsu]

Got 2017 forester XT i have been pleased with it here in Finland it actually has some use every winter, not yet been able to get it stuck the highest snow was over the bumper that I drove tho was powder but still. The biggest issue is the bit slow trunk open and close.

[@andrewvillavicencio8496]

Awesome review as always! LOVE my Primitive skid plates on my Outback!

[@hetfieldj1]

I just bought a 23 wilderness for a few reasons but the biggest one at the time was it was available. With Toyota cutting production it’s too difficult to find

[@mapletreerocker]

I really appreciate all the effort you put in for these videos Ryan!! Always a fan. Keep up the good work man👌👌

[@erichyde7252]

Huge Toyota guy here. Two Land Cruisers in Africa, Two Cruisers and 2 4Runners here in the States. I now drive a Lexus GX460. That being said, I would really have to see how the 2 SUVs did on the same tire. My gut tells me the Subaru with the higher clearance would be better for something like this test. I feel like the Subby did better in this test. Was it the tires? Maybe. But I will stick with my 200K and 300K reliability of the Toyota.

[@Mandy-gz1xl]

Thank you so much for these videos!! They are so helpful! I had no idea how amazing Subarus were until I found your channel. Haha 😂 And you’re somehow chill, funny, honest, and a good show man at the same time. Very rare combo! You can tell you’re having fun. And it’s fun to watch! Thank you! :)

[@jimbuckley4986]

Excellent review. We live near Santiam Pass and have loved our Outback. Put Crossclimate 2 tires on and doing very well. I love your reviews. Thank you

[@leighjohnston9960]

The Forester has been a leader in this category for a long time but now the others are catching up. RAV4 looks the goods but as you say the price maybe a big factor here. Personally as a long time Forester owner I'll stick with that. I Australia we don't get the Wilderness model but then again we don't often need to drive through deep snow.

[@brianlee2586]

The stuckage seems less about the vehicles and more about the dramatic steering. Anyone who's ever driven snow laden off roads knows that gentle sweeping steering gets you farther than plowing with sharp turns.

[@gregbrannon9687]

Great job pushing them both!

[@lik2bik]

I wish I were decades younger to thoroughly enjoy the wildernesses capabilities. My first Subie was an ‘83 GL wagon. I’d go mild off-roading with my friend who drove his CJ. There were plenty of times where I’d go through flooded dips and the water would wash over the hood. I’d have mud splattered front to back and top to bottom. It had dual range 4WD and an adjustable suspension via a bolt accessible under the back seat. I was so young and I beat it up and it took it all, especially on those short challenging jaunts.

[@erkwild2000]

I hear you on the Toyota's love for beeping. My 3rd gen Tacoma loves to beep when there's some bumps and not beeping when there's bumps. My body's own sensory system does great with recognizing bumpiness.

[@Mrbauto123465789]

Would have really appreciated this more if both vehicles were equipped with the same tires with equal tread remaining, or at bare minimum brand new OE tires..

[@Supertrooper432]

Idea for a future video. 4runner off road or trd pro vs lexus gx460 since it is the same vehicle with very different 4wd systems and compare them on your test hills. The used market down here in Texas, you can get an off road or pro for about the same price as a couple year old GX460. Feel like both make for a solid overlander.

[@danielduncan256]

Great video. Really pushing the cars hard. Any thoughts on the Subaru's CVT vs the Rav4's traditional auto transmission?

[@drivingsports]

I have no concerns about CVT.

[@Jose_hernandez970]

30 year master mechanic. The worlds best cvt is equivalent to the worlds worst automatic transmission. This is what the top transmission gurus in the industry say to us during containing education classes and annual conferences. While that comparison sounds drastic. It’s misleading. It’s actually to compare and contrast the very little difference between the worst and the best. To answer your question more directly the cvt is generally okay. Yes, it is true that the cvt will not last as long. However, it’s not unusual for cvt’s to last 250k miles on regular maintenance. Here’s the difference that counts: you must change your cvt fluid like clockwork. A cvt isn’t forgiving on fluids. They create much more heat than a traditional automatic and heat kills transmissions. Change your cvt fluid every 30k miles and your chances of long term reliability are exponentially increased.

[@hukmai]

I believe this will be the winning engine and CVT combo, because it's built for the ascent/outback wilderness 2.4t meaning way way overbuilt for this NA 2.5L; keep it up Subaru!

[@BowmanOverland]

The only concerns you should have is if you are buying a first Gen Subaru CVT vehicle, such as a 12-14 Outback or 14-15 Forester with high mileage with no history of trans service

[@wildbill23c]

@@Jose_hernandez970 Well to be honest you should be changing the fluid in an automatic transmission every 30-50k as well, depending on the conditions you drive the vehicle in...same goes for the CVT, if you do a lot of stop and go driving, or driving on backroads where you are continually spinning the tires, deep snow, etc. You want to change the fluids sooner than later...never follow the manual's guidelines, that's where everyone goes wrong, and don't go more than 4-5k on oil/filter changes either.

[@Duckgrabber]

I live in eastern South Dakota. Winter is five months long--real winter. Unlike you, I don't "visit" winter, I live in it. This winter has been extra tough with temps well below zero for days at a time and over 5 feet of snow (so far.) My hobby is roaming the back roads and section roads on the weekends. I drive a 2021 Forester with Blizzak tires, carry x4 recovery boards, 60 feet of tow line, two snow shovels, and some of those plastic tire "chains." Had the Forester for two winters now and have never been really stuck. The Blizzak tires do make a huge difference. What I liked about the RAV4 on your video is the wheels have wide openings. When you're in deep snow it will pack up on the inside of the rims and you have to scrape it off when you get on the highway. You can reach through the openings on the RAV4 and do that. On my Forester I have to crawl under the freaking car, scrape what I can, then pull it forward and crawl under again to get the the other half of the rim. Pain in the butt! Subaru needs wider openings on their wheels. That said, the fact the RAV4 has no tow attachments is a complete total non-starter for me. That just doesn't work when you're 40 miles from any place with a tow truck and the best you're going to do is a farmer with a 4000 Series John Deere. I have the factory hitch on my Forester and have used it a number of times to pull people out. Subaru needs to come up with better tow hooks on the front, preferably two of them. HUGE overisght. So with that in mind, I judge the RAV4 to be just a vehicle for the suburbs.

[@mikestoll3584]

Thanks for the comments on good winter tires. I don't see that hill as a problem with my 20 year old Toyota with premium winter tires.

[@ksmalls7017]

Very nice review. I do believe the Forester created better ‘lines’ for the RAV4 to get up. I thought the off-road down the trails was a more even test. I think you should have given the Trd the first attempt on one of the two hills. Trd benefited from forester going first on the first hill. Just watch wheel spin going up for forester. Then you packed down the snow coming down. Should have walked down and drive the RAV4 up. Just my $0.02. You mentioned at the end, the TRD gave power lift gate. The Forester Wilderness does come with a power lift gate. Even comes with height setting and lock function on the rear lift gate for one press close and lock. Listening objectively to your review, it sounds like you are trying to find ways to speak positively about the RAV4 without making it look like it wasn’t truly as capable as the Forester. You ended the show saying you would pick the Forester, but stood next to the RAV4 to end the video. I understand you have to walk a fine line when being ‘lent’ vehicles for reviews, that you can get black-balled for a poor review. But let’s not show one thing while saying another. Funniest part for me was listening to the breathing getting heavy and labored as you went up the hill…driving a car. Keep the videos coming. I’ll be watching.

[@StephanieM67]

Great comparison testing....but I will go with the Subaru Forester Wilderness, and I just got the 2023 Subaru Forester Wilderness (in white), and I love her! She has been fantastic in snow and ice! She drives so well and is so comfortable. I feel incredibly safe when driving.. especially with my precious cargo - my 16 wk old maltipoo!! Love Subaru and all its safety features!

[@pocobuenouno]

Be interesting to see how a hybrid RAV4 (Woodland?) would do. I've driven one in deep snow and it actually went better in "normal" mode than "trail" mode. Woodland also has the same tires as the TRD version. I've had a few subies and other SUVs (really liked the 2012 Santa Fe with v/6) and have to say it often comes down to the tires. I'm trying a RAV4 Woodland while waiting for the next gen, hybrid 4Runner.

[@mrvwbug4423]

The Hybrid will likely be comparable ... until the battery goes flat, then you lose your AWD entirely, the RAV4 Hybrid AWD system is an electric motor for the rear wheels. Though on pavement the hybrid RAV4 probably drives nicer than the regular one

[@jmichael6931]

TFL did a pretty honest test with the Rav4 hybrid and it performed very well for what it us. Generally, the limitations seemed to be the stock all season tires followed by clearance issues. With the fake Wildpeaks the Woodland will probably have a comparable performance as seen here. Of note, the three wheel slip test seemed to really confuse the Rav4. Otherwise, it performs quite well for what it is marketed as.

[@ivanvarykino8202]

I would not assume awd / snow performance would be the same. Make sure to look to some of the detailed hybrid videos. I believe Alex on Autos revealed that for the Lexus RX450 system, the rear electric motor had inferior power for winter awd performance. This alone swayed me to not get the hybrid version since I live in Minnesota and regularly end up on unplowed roads. Not sure if the hybrid RAV4 is the same 2 motor set up as in the Lexus.

[@MustardChannel]

@@mrvwbug4423 That's not how it works. The battery doesn't go "flat" - once the battery starts to deplete, the engine turns on to charge the batteries to ensure they have adequate power. There's no such thing as a 'flat' drive battery in a hybrid.

[@BoomBoomLou]

@10:30 You hold the VSC button for about 3 seconds to turn TRAC and VSC off. Then you shouldn't get the annoying beeping anymore.

[@haroldbonet6574]

I would pick the Subaru. I have a 2011 Subaru premium with slightly of 150,000 miles on it. I have it service every 5000 miles at the dealership. My only complaint is that the steering has gotten stiff and it takes a lot of the pleasure out of driving it. And the dealership either claimed they don’t notice, or hasn’t been able to figure out what the problem is. I go with the latter. Other than that mechanically sound for the years and mileage, though at this time I think I may have a coolant problem too. I Welcome any input on the hard staring🙏🏻

[@mrvwbug4423]

That was impressive, I wouldn't have expected either to get up that without proper snow tires. It also would've been much easier on proper snow tires. I would also add that neither of these holds a candle to the segment king of off road performance, the Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk. I had a 2015 Trailhawk and took it on proper 4x4 trails with no issue thanks to the full skidplates, real low range and real locker. It was just cursed with Jeep "reliability" which is why I traded it in on a Tacoma.

[@marketingmajor8126]

So true about the Trailhawk, that's practically a beast in it's own category. But for the same reason, I got rid of my Jeep reluctantly, after the warranty expired it became an alligator, spending more time in the repair shop than on the road. The Toyota/Subaru options are the next best thing once a person has had it with non-stop repairs, even if in stock form they leave something to be desired as compared to Jeep abilities. Easy enough to take both Toyota's and Subaru 's up a notch in capabilities through aftermarket options.

[@onlinedetective]

Great review! As others have mentioned it would have been more accurate to have each vehicle using an equivalent winter tire, but I realize the manufacturer would not allow you to do this. Both seem like winners to me as I doubt 98% will ever take them on this type of steep, muddy type of snow hill. With results fairly close, (IMO a slight edge going to Subaru), I would still choose the Toyota for the rock-solid reliability as I have many friends who have Subaru.. and love them, but often complain of the frequent and high cost of repairs.

[@Duckgrabber]

The fact the RAV4 doesn't have any tow hooks is a deal killer for us that live places like the Dakotas.

[@bikeman1x11]

subaru needs to lose the sh*TTy CVTs

[@BillKotraba]

I put hitch on back of my RAV4. So, at least one recovery point. It sad they did not include anything up front.

[@bripeck]

You should have done this test on identical sets of snow tires on each vehicle. This is more of a test of these tires than the machines there attached to.

[@adventuretrailsdogcamp2605]

Just bought a 23 Wilderness Forester. I've never been more excited to drive a car. Plus since it only had 10k, the warranty was still valid and it was Certified Preowned got a 100k or 7 year powertrain. Better than buying new!

[@edwinaviles2397]

I bought a Subaru Forester Wilderness❤😂, and my wife and I are totally impressed. The ride and handling are amazingly smooth. It is a very enjoyable car to drive.

[@randyolan1273]

It's obvious that neither vehicle is built for this type of terrain. This is not my idea of having fun. Keep them in the city.

[@kimgoertzen4527]

Great video and comparison. I have 2022 Subaru Forester and was interested to see how the tires performed in challenging terrain. I normally go with a more aggressive fully dedicated winter tire but was pleased to see the performance of the stock tires. I have a heated steering wheel in my Forester Wilderness. It’s a must have in the colder Canadian winters.

[@arbel7655]

I'm glad to know they have a heated steering wheel option. I'll take that over heated seats any day... though I know they go together.

[@olivier.st-amand]

There's a debate growing on youtube about how the Forester Wilderness' transmission is actually better than the Outback Wilderness on steep inclines. Sarah N Tuned and JonDZ Adventuring are talking about it, among others. The Outback's transmission will stall in some high incline situations while the Forester's will continue. Have you found this limitation with the outback wilderness?

[@Subie-Driver]

We have owned both these vehicles. I ended up trading a new ‘16 RAV for a crosstrek because it sucked in real winter weather. That was in 2018. The RAV AWD system could not hold a candle to the Subaru AWD in slippery and snowy conditions. Don’t regret doing it at all…in fact, bought a ‘22 Forester limited to replace our ‘11 Outback. I think that next to Audi, Subaru has the best AWD system out there. You do great reviews but I’d like to see your snow tests done with dedicated snow tires…not all terrain tires. It would make the test more real world…

[@jeffdunham9981]

The awd system on both the Toyota TRD and also the Toyota Limited use a rather advanced Haldex like rear differential. It is superior to the open differential of the subaru. That is why the Toyota in this test did well even though the tires were superior on the subaru.

[@soulsurfer8797]

Great review. Consider bringing a set of Maxtracs for an emergency option should you become stuck and unable to drive out.

[@tscotom]

a technique those recovery guys use is to turn/steer left and right A LOT as your front wheels slip on the ice in order to 'find more traction.'