Snow Battle! Subaru Forester Wilderness vs. Toyota RAV4 TRD Off-Road

[@michca2112]

I have been watching your reviews for over a year on the Forester Wilderness and Bronco Sport, since I was looking to replace my old Jeep. I actually couldn't make up my mind until I saw how the Forester really tackled various conditions with ease and yet came in at a lower price point (even with the package that give you heated seats, better speakers and power lift gate) than the Toyota or Bronco Sport mid-trim. I just bought the Forester Wilderness and I am absolutely loving it. Thank your for all your reviews!

[@ericchin739]

Solid choice! I'm on my second Subaru in a row. I'll never own another brand of car.

[@ledzep3692]

I Agree 👍...Mine will be arriving in two weeks.

[@MiriamBoldyreva]

Subaru Forester Wilderness the best👍🏼

[@MiniJeepers]

And, its gorgeous

[@muddywaters-c6l]

remember as long as you maintain the subaru it will never fail you, i know people who have 300plus k on the speedo and never had any major issues, just do your maintenance and it will last you a very very long time, i bought a 16yr old forester gave it a tune up and years later still no issue thank God. enjoy in good health

[@jaybou007]

I have a colleague who strapped proper winter studded Nokian Normans on the Wilderness. This thing can follow my Wrangler absolutely anywhere in light to medium difficulty trails. We struggle finding country trails where the Subie can’t make it. Impressive car. A tad thirsty, however.

[@biggestthreattoyourexistence]

Good idea using the Subaru to clear the path for the Toyota in every test.

[@stopthebs77]

Yep, that's why to be a fair test they need two lanes, equal in condition. Subaru always beats every Toyota in every snow test regardless. Look at the Crosstrek up against the RAV4 TRD where the Rav4 is destroyed and literally overheated and wouldn't restart 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@MarioLuigi-vb3rp]

Exactly I said the same thing

[@donaldotsig6818]

@@stopthebs77 But the cvt trans always blow up lol on the subaru

[@stopthebs77]

@donaldotsig6818 Keep jerkin yourself off over what has become an absolute shit and super overpricedddd brand. Toyota has gone wayyyy DOWNHILL in the recent years, while Subaru has constantly been improving. If you service the Subaru CVT which they've dramatically improved it will be very reliable. People act like Toyota doesn't have issues, when their CVTs have been a problem area, on top of absolutely abysmal interior design that's super fuckin cheap, cramped as fuck, and super uncomfortable. Harddd passs. Look up the snow test of the Rav4 TRD that literally overheats and won't restart while the Crosstrek absolutely destroys it. That's an absolute jokeeeee 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@jonm610]

@@donaldotsig68182012 subaru legacy with 240k miles. CVT trans doing fine. Though my local mechanic doesn’t want to touch it. I’m concerned the dealership has unskilled labor due to high turnover nationwide

[@quantumfzx]

Your channel is the reason I bought my Forester sport back in 2021. I have 0 regrets with my choice. I live in the mountains where it snows a lot and I have no issues getting anywhere. Thanks for the great reviews. I enjoy watching your comparisons with the Forester and other cars.

[@Studio89Graphic]

We live in Weather Cold ─ Minus -40°F/C sometimes and the Subaru Legacy 1992 Model ─ with less than 1/2 hour plug-in Block-heater it can run on right away; except once it was so cold the Tire went Flat .. then all we had to do was driving to the Station and Pumped new air then since that until now the Winter-tires/Rims replaced/Rotated (Bridgestone Japan Made imported ─ Of Course then the Label Heavy Fuji Industry still was the Trademark of the Subaru Brand. The total cost of Ownership and repairment was like 16-17k Dollars and only some wiring needed to be rewired ─ when we went to the Dealership Subaru to have the Timing-belt changed ─ Original since 1992; The Technician Mechanics said the Timing-belt was older than she was - Oh My G! 😂 😂...

[@deller5924]

Have you experienced any technical issues with your 2021 Forester? Thank you!

[@quantumfzx]

@@deller5924 Nope, no technical issues as of yet. Still running strong.

[@deller5924]

@@quantumfzx Awesome.

[@calpolyca]

@@quantumfzx Which model Forester did you get? I'd like to get one, but just wondering if the upgrades and price are worth forking out for the Wilderness model vs Premium. Especially if the lower-priced models work just as well in heavily snowed areas. Thanks

[@ineverknow9917]

Love your channel. You're not scared of saying what you think of things which is very refreshing. One thing that is frustrating to me on all vehicle reviews is comparing them. If you want to test tires, put them on the same spec vehicles. You want to test AWD or 4-wheel drive systems, put the same tires on both. I don't care what the stock tires compare like. I want to know if I throw snow tires on the Subaru and the Toyota, which is going to perform better. You can put any tires on any vehicle so I want to know which traction system will work the best on what tire I decide to change it to. Just my 2 cents.

[@mesabman]

I totally agree with you because if you have different tires on the vehicles being compared, it will never be a fair comparison.

[@sbukosky]

I'm on my fourth Subaru, but have respect for Toyota. Grandaughter has a new Rav 4 with Gramps's approval.

[@trailmonstah1892]

Get over yourself. Your granddaughter def smarter than you for picking a YOTA 😂

[@brucey5585]

Toyota only made it because they stole subaru awd tech when they own 30% of subaru. Notice how toyota suddenly have all cars awd and not using their old reliable awd system like the 4runner and land cruiser.

[@warweaponx6629]

You’d still be on your first Toyota if you’d have bought one.

[@iffykidmn8170]

@@warweaponx6629 👍

[@coryducey2650]

I generally lease because hey...new car smell more frequently 😜😜. My 4th Toyota and on my second Rav4 LE AWD. Great winter car. Running Blizzaks and no issue in the winter.

[@SenorGato237]

The stock tires on the Forrester Wilderness are beasts. One of the biggest advantages the Wilderness has.

[@puffdc]

they're actually snow rated, snowflake symbol that is

[@SenorGato237]

@@puffdc For OEM tires, on something that isn't a Wrangler or Bronco, they're really good.

[@gs98999]

Snowflake symbol by itself doesn’t mean a ton. Only a slight traction improvement needed to meet that threshold. Huge range exists within tires with snowflake category

[@user-ql3ge2us4s]

@SFRJ agreed. The rubber is slight more compliant in lower temp and traction is only tested in a straight line.

[@WildernessForever]

My Wilderness turned over to a thousand miles yesterday. Got stuck driving 70 miles home in a blizzard. Not one mistep from this vehicle. So impressed.

[@groosbro1]

Tires make a huge difference. I have a 2020 WRX that came with summer tires, I had to drive on them through a very light snow, and it was like driving on ice. As soon as I switched to winter tires the difference was dramatic. There was traction in snow, and on mixed snow and ice.

[@Brian-um9zz]

live in CO and you will know the diff...

[@stan916]

Same experience! I picked up mine at the end of February on a beautiful sunny day. That same afternoon we got a ton of snow and I decided to pickup my wife from the subway station. That was... stressful. But with the winters that car was a small tank, minus the ground clearance of course.

[@tech-ii5sh]

lol, I sure remember these days of driving in places like that. Here are some tips that may help out. When driving in snowy and steep conditions with a 4x4 vehicle like a Subaru Forester or Toyota RAV4, several techniques can enhance your safety and control. First, it’s essential to start in low gear when driving uphill, as this provides more torque and better control, reducing the chances of spinning out. Smooth acceleration and braking are also crucial; gradually applying the accelerator helps avoid tire slippage, while gentle braking maintains traction and prevents skidding. It's important to maintain a steady speed while climbing hills. If you slow down too much, you may lose momentum, making it difficult to continue ascending. Additionally, ensure your vehicle has proper winter tires (sadly you were unable to do that), as they offer better traction in snow and ice compared to all-season or summer tires. Looking ahead while driving is key; scanning the road for changes in terrain and obstacles allows you to plan your route effectively and prevents sudden adjustments that could lead to a loss of control. Likewise, avoid any sudden steering or braking movements, as gentle inputs provide better handling and help maintain traction. When descending steep hills, make use of engine braking by taking your foot off the accelerator and allowing the engine to slow you down. This technique reduces reliance on brakes, which can become less effective on slippery surfaces. Familiarize yourself with your 4WD system; some vehicles have specific modes designed for snow or off-road driving that can enhance your control in such conditions. Maintaining a safe distance between your vehicle and other obstacles ahead is also essential, as stopping distances are longer in snow and you will need more time to react. It’s wise to carry supplies in your vehicle, such as a shovel (which you had done). If possible, practice driving in snowy conditions in a safe and open area to build your confidence and understand how your vehicle handles. Finally, remain calm if you find yourself slipping or sliding. Focus on steering in the direction you wish to go and avoid overreacting to the situation. By employing these strategies, you can enhance your driving experience and safety in snowy and steep conditions with your 4x4 vehicle. Always exercise caution and adjust your driving according to the current road conditions.

[@BillKotraba]

I went from 2010 forester to 2020 RAV4 le awd. Subaru wanted around $3,000 to pull engine and change valve cover gaskets. With the RAV4, spark plugs, valve cover are on top. You get timing chain, electric water pump(believe 3 bolts to change it),. OH! 8 spd trans with manual shift. On the RAV4, I put JP Adventure lift to increase ground clearance and 245/65x17 Faulkner Wildpeak at3. Don’t think can go that big on forester. I like the forester, until time for maintenance! The RAV4 has ALOT of torque steer when you get on it. I like them both!

[@atticstattic]

_Falken_ Wildpeak

[@prawnshop4573]

You can get used low millage engines at jdm exporters for 1800 cad already with a new timing chain and cam gears set. 😊

[@igregmart]

I picked the 22 Forester Wilderness over the Toyota. Great visibility all around.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Yeah, if they were the same price I would get the RAV4 every time, but with with the Forester being $7k cheaper, I would definitely lean towards the Forester because the RAV4 isn't $7000 better.

[@billricheter5678]

@@mrvwbug4423 I think the rav 4 is overpriced and not that well built

[@rickeycooley9139]

@@mrvwbug4423l don’t know?

[@devil2jz500]

Until it blows a head gasket or the CVT transmission 😂

[@gulammohiddin5747]

@@mrvwbug4423 I think the 7k difference is actually justified if you look at the reliability of the Toyotas. Toyotas are more reliable than Subarus for sure. Subaru's boxer engines are prone to head gasket failures and servicing them is expensive when the moment arrives.

[@billk5864]

Toyota’s new Torque Vectoring all wheel drive is quite impressive. I have it in my 2021 limited Highlander and after owning four Subarus I don’t feel like I’ve lost anything. In fact the Toyota feels more sure footed to me than anything else I’ve drove. My son bought a 2022 RAV 4 Adventurer after owning a Subaru, and he feels the same.

[@Martin944turbo]

Interesting! I've been a Subaru owner for the past 12 years and thinking of trading in my 2021 Subaru STI for the 2022 RAV4 TRD edition because my kids are getting bigger. Looking forward to trying the Toyota AWD going to ski hills and stuck in blizzards; I'll definitely get Nokian or Michelin winter tires.

[@jeffreya8329]

Rav4 is perfect for the city, if you want to go offroad every now and then you pick the forester, better clearance and awd system

[@Martin944turbo]

Also looking at the 2024 Forester Wilderness edition, hard to beat yes! @@jeffreya8329

[@johnmaas4298]

Reliability depends on end user for the most part. Maintenance and driving habits. Although that said if you look at factory recalls Toyota and Subaru fair very well. Just take care of vehicle and do the routine maintenance and it could last longer than you want it too🎉

[@K5757-d9q]

This is not entirely true. Most Stellantis brands (Fiat, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep) aren't reliable, regardless.

[@Starf2022]

Hmmm what preventive maintenance to do for your engine to last more than 200k before the head gasket get blown and etc that comes with those boxer engine while toyotas keep runing for ever...

[@bosse641]

A Forester with a flat 6 and manual transmission would be a fun car to own.

[@6denashi608]

Great comparison video as always. I'm glad to see Toyota narrowing the AWD capability gap with Subaru. I have personally purchased 6 Subies over my lifetime, due to their awesome performance in snow. But with a total of 7 head gasket failures between the 6 vehicles, I have migrated to Toyota. So far so good. Still have a soft spot for the Subies; just won't fork over any more money to them.

[@bgmpt]

Ditto here with 3 head gasket failures on 5 Subarus and probably the only reason the other 2 didn't fail is because one was sold early and the other was totalled early. I'm in the Toyota camp now and won't be going back to Subaru.

[@Studio89Graphic]

@@bgmpt We have had no Head-G at all on all of our Sub-Legacy 1990-1992 Model Ls and L... In fact our 1992 had the Original Timing-Belt since 1992 until 2019... Mostly all Parts and Engine are org. including the Winter Tires+ Rims Bridgestone Winter-Tires 4 of them still Origin and we rotate to Summer Tires/Rims. FYI Subaru BRZ are the one Subaru Gave the "Know-how" Technology to Toyota. A Friend had a Sub GL/ DL last forever ... Then 1986 Turbo XT was among the Best "World Rally Racing Cars" Not many Sedan Toyota knew then how to make good 4x4 Racing Vehicles/Cars. Cheers,

[@bgmpt]

@@Studio89Graphic How many miles did you put on the car in that period from 1992 to 2019? Also, where is the geographical location that you ran the car?

[@wholeNwon]

Exactly!!!!!!!

[@damienbell3155]

I worked at both Subaru and toyota Lexus. From 00-05 Subaru, I hated changing out transmissions on the foresters and doing the head gaskets valve cover gskt. Went to toyota L in 09-17 but have been a mechanic for 25 yrs , I rarely ever seen a Rav -4 come in for anything , just typical maintenance. I’ve really impressed with toyota I’ve worked at Volvo,Suzuki, Mazda , bmw, Mercedes , dodge, Honda, jeep, Hyundai/kia and Chevy/gmc. Was impressed with only Volvo till 03 then ford purchased them and gutted them. There slowly trying to come back. But yah I would choose toyota Lexus over all car brands. I own rx350, es300, sequoia and a Corolla. Enough said lol. I’m in Alaska There are hundreds upon hundreds of 19- and newer raves here. Subarus had the title in 80-90-2000 but Toyotas have taken the thrown. Mpg is another point to why so many r being purchased.

[@Ricksnet2008]

Forester for me... I wish it had more HP/faster acceleration on the road, but it works wonders off road

[@huntstyle]

Anxious to see what they bring in '24. I've read that it'll be a new generation.

[@WildernessForever]

And does just fine as far as acceleration . It's not a freaking Corvette.

[@Ricksnet2008]

@@WildernessForever Yes a Forester with 500 HP would be hilarious, but all I meant was if they can make the Outback XT... would love that to come to the Forester.

[@alozano793]

Yeah no doubt on the acceleration. Scared me a couple times in dicey merging situations where I couldnt get to speed confidently. Pray and throttle!

[@firefly9838]

I bet you could squeeze out another 20 to 30 hp with some aftermarket tuning and minor upgrades to the engine.

[@edwinaviles2397]

I bought a Subaru Forester Wilderness❤😂, and my wife and I are totally impressed. The ride and handling are amazingly smooth. It is a very enjoyable car to drive.

[@randyolan1273]

It's obvious that neither vehicle is built for this type of terrain. This is not my idea of having fun. Keep them in the city.

[@Databyter]

I am a Subaru fan and I have a Wilderness Outback. I have to say, other than the clearance I think the Rav4 system is pretty good. That was a heckuva challenge and a lot of holes and ditches to fall into. That being said, the Subaru with it's better clearance and better tires was the obvious winner here. But I wouldn't say the Rav4 failed in any way. With a dedicated owner used to how it responds, perhaps some slightly better tires, perhaps aired down, it might have made it up. Especially if the Rav4 can fitted with tires a few sizes up by a new owner, which I do not know if that's possible due to wheel well clearance issues.. I know I went two sizes up on my Wilderness immediately and never looked back. No rubbing. It has raised my ground clearance to over 10" without a lift. It really helps. And I have the real Falken AT Trails with the Severe Snow three peak rating. I wonder if the Rav4 version at least has the M+S rating at least, because where I live you need at LEAST that on a passenger AWD to be allowed to travel on snowy highways without chains during our R1 and R2 conditions. And chains usually are not recommended for AWD's, and on many of them, like my Subaru, they are basically forbidden due to both AWD and Clearance issues. I carry them with me to comply with the law, but I am not required to install them because I have the winter rated tires. The minimum to be considered a winter rated tire in California IS the M+S rating, the Three Peak Rating is far above that being not just snow and ice rated, but SEVERE snow and ice rated. It's not just the tread, but the rubber formulation which has to stay pliant and somewhat soft even in cold weather. This is expensive so I guess Toyota was economizing on their material, a poor decision in my opinion. If you're going to go with a brand model, don't skimp on it's full features. Anyway I digress. I thought BOTH vehicles did really well, and both have certain advantages. If the Rav4 had better tires and clearance it would have given the Subaru more of a run for it's money because it also has a fine AWD logic, with a superior clutched differential system in back, paired with a traditional transmission that is more bullet proof while attacking obstacles. Databyter

[@kimdecell5096]

My 2005 forster and good snow tires,manul shift would leave them way behind. 😆

[@matthewdavis2549]

What size did you put on your outback?

[@Databyter]

@@matthewdavis2549 I put 245/65/17's on Motegi 17x7.5 wheels. Falken AT Trails. the NON LT version for crossovers which are tough, but lighter than LT's

[@Qis4Question]

RAV4 can take 245/65/17 without a lift. Something I'm planning on doing for my wife's RAV4 once she needs new tires@@Databyter

[@gandalfthemead3121]

I bought my first Subie in 2018. I drove it across America and back. It did very well and I put it through the paces with all the safety features. I have taken it in some dirt and snow and it just wants to climb. The all wheel drive has saved me from one crash and the second crash was smaller than what could have happened. Even though it sits high with the ground clearance the all wheel drive had me sticking to the road when I had to swerve hard to avoid these accidents. The parts for replacement after the wreck were economical. I have a 10 year 120k mile warrantee on this and I am gifting it to my grandson as soon as it is paid off. Looking at the wilderness model for myself and then I can take him off road with me and have some family Subie fun!

[@yarrim]

No matter the vehicle, the key to driving or climbing in the snow is winter tires, winter tires and winter tires, especially if you ride in wet snow.

[@alozano793]

That wet snow is a monster of its own.

[@jackhackett6827]

I have had 4 Subarus over the years and for me the secret of their success was the fact the all-wheel drive system was symmetrical.

[@unclej3910]

Where i live in Colorado, Subarus are everywhere. Because they go in snow better than most all other vehicles, and have good gas mileage.

[@maxxbenzz7842]

As opposed to Asymmetrical

[@Mrbauto123465789]

Would have really appreciated this more if both vehicles were equipped with the same tires with equal tread remaining, or at bare minimum brand new OE tires..

[@Tribsu]

Got 2017 forester XT i have been pleased with it here in Finland it actually has some use every winter, not yet been able to get it stuck the highest snow was over the bumper that I drove tho was powder but still. The biggest issue is the bit slow trunk open and close.

[@Reed81315]

I got my FW because of Ryan's videos. I also got to learn the basics of soft roading from them too as a added bonus!

[@martinr8278]

Great choice. Out of my price range but after watching these videos…….Subaru wilderness all the way🏆🥇

[@hetfieldj1]

I just bought a 23 wilderness for a few reasons but the biggest one at the time was it was available. With Toyota cutting production it’s too difficult to find

[@grumpy1311]

We purchased a 2022 subaru forester in November. 2200 miles to date We also have a 2010 forester with 220k miles on it . The older car has dedicated snow tires that are 3 or 4 seasons old. This car will do circles around the newer one due to the snow tires vs stock tires. Good review and good driving 👍

[@haroldbonet6574]

I would pick the Subaru. I have a 2011 Subaru premium with slightly of 150,000 miles on it. I have it service every 5000 miles at the dealership. My only complaint is that the steering has gotten stiff and it takes a lot of the pleasure out of driving it. And the dealership either claimed they don’t notice, or hasn’t been able to figure out what the problem is. I go with the latter. Other than that mechanically sound for the years and mileage, though at this time I think I may have a coolant problem too. I Welcome any input on the hard staring🙏🏻

[@10cpaul]

Have the same toyota and never beeps like that... parking sensor off is the choice...

[@mrvwbug4423]

That was impressive, I wouldn't have expected either to get up that without proper snow tires. It also would've been much easier on proper snow tires. I would also add that neither of these holds a candle to the segment king of off road performance, the Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk. I had a 2015 Trailhawk and took it on proper 4x4 trails with no issue thanks to the full skidplates, real low range and real locker. It was just cursed with Jeep "reliability" which is why I traded it in on a Tacoma.

[@marketingmajor8126]

So true about the Trailhawk, that's practically a beast in it's own category. But for the same reason, I got rid of my Jeep reluctantly, after the warranty expired it became an alligator, spending more time in the repair shop than on the road. The Toyota/Subaru options are the next best thing once a person has had it with non-stop repairs, even if in stock form they leave something to be desired as compared to Jeep abilities. Easy enough to take both Toyota's and Subaru 's up a notch in capabilities through aftermarket options.

[@Subie-Driver]

We have owned both these vehicles. I ended up trading a new ‘16 RAV for a crosstrek because it sucked in real winter weather. That was in 2018. The RAV AWD system could not hold a candle to the Subaru AWD in slippery and snowy conditions. Don’t regret doing it at all…in fact, bought a ‘22 Forester limited to replace our ‘11 Outback. I think that next to Audi, Subaru has the best AWD system out there. You do great reviews but I’d like to see your snow tests done with dedicated snow tires…not all terrain tires. It would make the test more real world…

[@jeffdunham9981]

The awd system on both the Toyota TRD and also the Toyota Limited use a rather advanced Haldex like rear differential. It is superior to the open differential of the subaru. That is why the Toyota in this test did well even though the tires were superior on the subaru.

[@Supertrooper432]

Idea for a future video. 4runner off road or trd pro vs lexus gx460 since it is the same vehicle with very different 4wd systems and compare them on your test hills. The used market down here in Texas, you can get an off road or pro for about the same price as a couple year old GX460. Feel like both make for a solid overlander.

[@onlinedetective]

Great review! As others have mentioned it would have been more accurate to have each vehicle using an equivalent winter tire, but I realize the manufacturer would not allow you to do this. Both seem like winners to me as I doubt 98% will ever take them on this type of steep, muddy type of snow hill. With results fairly close, (IMO a slight edge going to Subaru), I would still choose the Toyota for the rock-solid reliability as I have many friends who have Subaru.. and love them, but often complain of the frequent and high cost of repairs.

[@Duckgrabber]

The fact the RAV4 doesn't have any tow hooks is a deal killer for us that live places like the Dakotas.

[@bikeman1x11]

subaru needs to lose the sh*TTy CVTs

[@BillKotraba]

I put hitch on back of my RAV4. So, at least one recovery point. It sad they did not include anything up front.

[@rylian21]

Subarus are incredibly capable for the money you pay for them.

[@olivier.st-amand]

There's a debate growing on youtube about how the Forester Wilderness' transmission is actually better than the Outback Wilderness on steep inclines. Sarah N Tuned and JonDZ Adventuring are talking about it, among others. The Outback's transmission will stall in some high incline situations while the Forester's will continue. Have you found this limitation with the outback wilderness?

[@marcloveall]

I absolutely love your videos Ryan, Nick does a great job as well! I’m a Subaru fan boy owning a 2015 WRX but very much approve of the new RAV4

[@lik2bik]

I wish I were decades younger to thoroughly enjoy the wildernesses capabilities. My first Subie was an ‘83 GL wagon. I’d go mild off-roading with my friend who drove his CJ. There were plenty of times where I’d go through flooded dips and the water would wash over the hood. I’d have mud splattered front to back and top to bottom. It had dual range 4WD and an adjustable suspension via a bolt accessible under the back seat. I was so young and I beat it up and it took it all, especially on those short challenging jaunts.

[@suspectfisherman2227]

I feel like tires really are the difference maker here. Both of these are probably more capable than my ‘15 XV Crosstrek technically… but I run hakkapeliittas and that combined with a manual transmission that gives me a lot more throttle control, and 8 years of owning and experiencing that car and I think I would have an easier time going up these trails in my car than either of these cars. Although I also own a ‘21 Tacoma TRD also with a manual transmission for my work truck, and if I was going somewhere that required me to take trails like these I would probably take that over my daily or either of these.

[@bripeck]

You should have done this test on identical sets of snow tires on each vehicle. This is more of a test of these tires than the machines there attached to.

[@Wilderness-qq8ek]

Awesome video very well done. Makes me glad I went with the Subaru the Rav 4 was my 2nd choice even if they were the same price which of course their not I like the Subie better.

[@pocobueno1]

Be interesting to see how a hybrid RAV4 (Woodland?) would do. I've driven one in deep snow and it actually went better in "normal" mode than "trail" mode. Woodland also has the same tires as the TRD version. I've had a few subies and other SUVs (really liked the 2012 Santa Fe with v/6) and have to say it often comes down to the tires. I'm trying a RAV4 Woodland while waiting for the next gen, hybrid 4Runner.

[@mrvwbug4423]

The Hybrid will likely be comparable ... until the battery goes flat, then you lose your AWD entirely, the RAV4 Hybrid AWD system is an electric motor for the rear wheels. Though on pavement the hybrid RAV4 probably drives nicer than the regular one

[@jmichael6931]

TFL did a pretty honest test with the Rav4 hybrid and it performed very well for what it us. Generally, the limitations seemed to be the stock all season tires followed by clearance issues. With the fake Wildpeaks the Woodland will probably have a comparable performance as seen here. Of note, the three wheel slip test seemed to really confuse the Rav4. Otherwise, it performs quite well for what it is marketed as.

[@ivanvarykino8202]

I would not assume awd / snow performance would be the same. Make sure to look to some of the detailed hybrid videos. I believe Alex on Autos revealed that for the Lexus RX450 system, the rear electric motor had inferior power for winter awd performance. This alone swayed me to not get the hybrid version since I live in Minnesota and regularly end up on unplowed roads. Not sure if the hybrid RAV4 is the same 2 motor set up as in the Lexus.

[@MustardChannel]

@@mrvwbug4423 That's not how it works. The battery doesn't go "flat" - once the battery starts to deplete, the engine turns on to charge the batteries to ensure they have adequate power. There's no such thing as a 'flat' drive battery in a hybrid.

[@adventuretrailsdogcamp2605]

Just bought a 23 Wilderness Forester. I've never been more excited to drive a car. Plus since it only had 10k, the warranty was still valid and it was Certified Preowned got a 100k or 7 year powertrain. Better than buying new!

[@souichikawana419]

Thanks for the great video as always, Ryan! I would like to see another competition with the same brands of proper snow tires.

[@dimitrisntouzos8615]

Great videos ,but when you make a comparison it would be better to use same tyres on both vehicles.both are poor tyres for the conditions, but Subaru tures seems getting better grip. Great videos,keep up the good work we love it 👍👍

[@springjin7017]

I have a 2021 Subaru Forester with winter tires and live in Calgary, Canada. In winter, when I go to the mountains, there are no problems. It is the second Subaru SUV in my life. I ❤ love it.

[@gregbrannon9687]

Great job pushing them both!

[@xophaser]

These are city-to-light mountain trail cars. I live in the seattle area, so you see a lot of subaru and rav4. lots of hikers and ski/snowboarders (but ski places are plow, I got here with a 2 wheels jetta, I wouldn't hit any side roads tho). If you need more clearance (or get better tires) the 4-runner and those jeeps' other 4x4 will. I drive in the city 95-99% of the time why I went rav4 hybrid. I have my snow chains when needed.

[@Duckgrabber]

I live in eastern South Dakota. Winter is five months long--real winter. Unlike you, I don't "visit" winter, I live in it. This winter has been extra tough with temps well below zero for days at a time and over 5 feet of snow (so far.) My hobby is roaming the back roads and section roads on the weekends. I drive a 2021 Forester with Blizzak tires, carry x4 recovery boards, 60 feet of tow line, two snow shovels, and some of those plastic tire "chains." Had the Forester for two winters now and have never been really stuck. The Blizzak tires do make a huge difference. What I liked about the RAV4 on your video is the wheels have wide openings. When you're in deep snow it will pack up on the inside of the rims and you have to scrape it off when you get on the highway. You can reach through the openings on the RAV4 and do that. On my Forester I have to crawl under the freaking car, scrape what I can, then pull it forward and crawl under again to get the the other half of the rim. Pain in the butt! Subaru needs wider openings on their wheels. That said, the fact the RAV4 has no tow attachments is a complete total non-starter for me. That just doesn't work when you're 40 miles from any place with a tow truck and the best you're going to do is a farmer with a 4000 Series John Deere. I have the factory hitch on my Forester and have used it a number of times to pull people out. Subaru needs to come up with better tow hooks on the front, preferably two of them. HUGE overisght. So with that in mind, I judge the RAV4 to be just a vehicle for the suburbs.

[@StephanieM67]

Great comparison testing....but I will go with the Subaru Forester Wilderness, and I just got the 2023 Subaru Forester Wilderness (in white), and I love her! She has been fantastic in snow and ice! She drives so well and is so comfortable. I feel incredibly safe when driving.. especially with my precious cargo - my 16 wk old maltipoo!! Love Subaru and all its safety features!

[@mattheviewer]

Agreed on the lack of a heated steering wheel on any Subaru Wilderness model. Is Subaru pinching pennies here or do they believe snow helps warm a drivers' hands?

[@pacattack81]

I can only think it was to try and sell more touring models because that model has it. Also, in Canada the wilderness model has the heated steering wheel. I'd love to know the reasoning, but I'd imagine it always boils down to money. I wish I could add the option on mine.

[@MarksTech]

I mean, if you've ever driven a subaru, you'd know that the air-con vents are right behind the hands. when you turn on the heat, it keeps your hands warm on the steering wheel, not to mention if you preheat the cabin with remote start. I was in Colorado for a month this winter, and had no issues whatsoever with my subaru and the non-heated steering wheel lol. the subaru forester is a lifted-SUV with AWD, adaptive cruise control with lane centering, Harmon Kardon sound system, and a roof rack capable of 800lbs - all for 32k im not sure what you mean by 'pinching pennies' - theyre already an amazing value. If the subaru was 40k like the RAV 4 and didnt have the heated wheel, then that would be kinda odd given the price tag. for the price, the forester wilderness is super good for what it comes with.

[@puffdc]

real men don't need heated steering wheels

[@mattheviewer]

I used air vents before heated steering was available....IMHO not as good as heated wheel.

[@mattheviewer]

Good to know Subaru Canada takes warming hands seriously!

[@Lorenzo_Velasquez]

I am a Subaru owner and fan but, great job Toy!!!

[@kimgoertzen4527]

Great video and comparison. I have 2022 Subaru Forester and was interested to see how the tires performed in challenging terrain. I normally go with a more aggressive fully dedicated winter tire but was pleased to see the performance of the stock tires. I have a heated steering wheel in my Forester Wilderness. It’s a must have in the colder Canadian winters.

[@arbel7655]

I'm glad to know they have a heated steering wheel option. I'll take that over heated seats any day... though I know they go together.

[@DeltaWhiskeyBravo13579]

They both did what was asked. No, I wasn't in the vehicles, however it seemed the Subaru Forester made it up and back with less drama. And it was less expensive. Sounds like the winner. PS this coming winter, the forecast of lots of roller storms... Roller tests, I guess to see if you can drive through the roller factory.

[@christinearbogast6751]

And I refuse to give up my 2006 Outbackk. Still running like a rock star! 💪♥️

[@slandshark]

Love these videos! Kudos to that Toyota Rav4 for being able to make it up. The Rav4 would be on the list of 'next vehicle' for a family member of mine, but roughly $7k more than the Subaru Forester, not really sure there's $7k more value there to justify the Toyota Rav4 over the Subaru Forester. And the non-Wilderness Forester is nearly as good for even less money. Please keep making more of these videos! And the offer always stands, if you want to try a 2023 Subaru Ascent, please contact me! I'm in your area. :)

[@ivanvarykino8202]

Not sure about $7k additional value. But having owned multiple Toyota, Subaru, Honda, Lexus, I feel that Subaru does not have the same overall build quality as Toyota. I know I'm guaranteed 100k+ miles with a Subaru, and do love them. But with a Toyota I have the confidence of 200k+ miles. I've also bought Toyota and Lexus with 100k+ mile, driven them for 5 years with no issues and resold. I would not expect the same long term durability and reliability from a Subaru.

[@slandshark]

@@ivanvarykino8202 Well my oldest Subaru is a 2004 WRX with 241k miles on it, best and most reliable car I've ever owned despite driving it like I stole it every day. Bought a 2023 Subaru Ascent and expect to get at least 200k trouble-free miles out of it as well.

[@dayvancowboy]

Fun review woohoo! CX-50 showdown in the snow when? 👀♥️

[@lolotus4borderless]

Cx50 Meridian please

[@ojdtube]

Would love to see a RAV4 vs CX50 comparison!

[@huntstyle]

3-way battle with the Forester! These are the 3 vehicles I'm considering.

[@JSBowling2011]

The CX 50 would never stand up to the Forester or the RAV just not as off-road capable and low ground clearance

[@ojdtube]

@@JSBowling2011 it has 8.6 in of GC just like the RAV4, and has an off road setting. It’s only missing the underbody protection

[@giol.8220]

Impressive that the rav4 snow program worked so well that it nearly compensated for the big tire issue in your test scenario logic

[@Technica_IO]

i would pick the Forester. Although that Toyota performed much better than I expected. That was a great show of applied engineering. Love these videos you make

[@subiesojourner777]

As soon as these dealerships get real with the "add-on" pricing BS, I'll be buying the Subaru Forester Wilderness.

[@Mklpz000]

You van always get a job or buy USED

[@subiesojourner777]

@@Mklpz000 I'm retired and have the $, I'm not paying these stupid, greedy fees.

[@GUS4BEATLES]

Dang my experience was way different, I looked at the exact car I wanted (Subaru forester wilderness), went in told them I wanted it exactly how it was no add ons, asked them to be upfront and the only other thing I payed for was like $100 extra for the starlink, it might have been different because I got it early this year (car market is bad) and also got in in Fresno CA so demand is probably not as high there.

[@subiesojourner777]

@@GUS4BEATLES I found a dealership that didn't have all the crap charges and bought one.

[@jimbuckley4986]

Excellent review. We live near Santiam Pass and have loved our Outback. Put Crossclimate 2 tires on and doing very well. I love your reviews. Thank you

[@RH-sb5co]

My 2010 Forester is still getting me through Wisconsin winters.

[@3211Co]

What an awesome review! Enjoyed it till the end... Thank you!!

[@Mandy-gz1xl]

Thank you so much for these videos!! They are so helpful! I had no idea how amazing Subarus were until I found your channel. Haha 😂 And you’re somehow chill, funny, honest, and a good show man at the same time. Very rare combo! You can tell you’re having fun. And it’s fun to watch! Thank you! :)

[@michaelnoah3795]

Wow did not expect there to be a 25% price difference between these

[@andrews4276]

Hmm, in Canada the Rav 4 Trail is $1K more than the Forester Wilderness ($48,967.65 vs $47,857.20)

[@stevenwiedel3122]

P.P.S. I also agree with the commentator that spoke about tires. As you said, you can only run the stock tires with stock [road] pressure. It’s not really comparing apples to apples.

[@Salaundre]

I really like these because it makes me feel good about my purchase last year and it shows me the limits of my vehicle. Big Bend will be its first Overlanding trip.

[@GREATVOVA]

I guess in such situations as on hard hill it might be useful to have an option to manually select how much momentum each axle will get. Like set 37/63 front/rear, go through hard place and come back to auto.

[@MM-hm2wy]

My 2020 forester goes everywhere. Only issue is caleche rocky clay that gets under brake shield. Little granite pieces get stuck and squeals badly until I pick it out with some tools.

[@alozano793]

Yeah I was freaked when I heard that.

[@ocho69er]

Wow!?!? Awesome video!! Thx for sharing. I got Rav4 SE hybrid last summer and although not the same as the TRD I'm learning a lot from your videos. I don't anticipate driving in conditions like your test being I'm in SoCal I appreciate your insights 👍 Bravo 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@toddcraft6919]

I wouldn’t call the tires on either of those vehicles “all terrain”. They both looked like passenger all season tires.

[@jerrymiller276]

A kid ran into the side of our Merc Mountaineer so we went ahead and replaced it, even though we were planning to wait a year. Got a rental 'cause of the accident and it was a Toyota Rav 4. Drove it around checking basically all the competetion in that size range. Got to the Subaru and that was it. Forester 2023, love it. Haven't taken it to tough going yet, though because my wife would kill me and then divorce me.

[@BBQDad463]

Thank you for this video. Both vehicles did well, especially in light of the fact that neither had proper tires. Truth to tell, If I were going to drive in those conditions, common sense would call for some serious Winter tires with chains. I have a 2022 Subaru Forester, Touring Edition. (I wanted a Wilderness Edition but none were available and I needed wheels, so...) It has not yet been put to the test. Perhaps Winter 2023-24 will generate some El Nino snow; then we shall see.

[@iuyiuy3996]

On icy roads, it is no good if you open the accelerator too quickly at the beginning. Torque is not transmitted to the road surface. The key is to open slowly. Many people start playing from the beginning.

[@doloresm7396]

Better tires required on the RAV4 for those conditions. Just bought the RAV XSE over Memorial Day. Tires make all the difference. I traveled four states for close to thirty years for work and never did I not have top of the line M/S tires.

[@donoberley3582]

I have just the regular rav with Michelin ice x and it will rip up anything, quite amazing.those tires are sub par.

[@jasonracey9600]

The RAV4 is such a dumpster fire. On another channel it lost on dirt and gravel against the Forester. Would never buy one for driving off pavement. Toyota made such a huge mistake putting the TRD badge on it.

[@wildbill23c]

Toyota sticks the TRD badge on everything, its on the Corolla, Camry, etc. People are so gullible if you put the TRD sticker on a golf cart, doubled the price, people would buy it..

[@jeffhildreth9244]

@@wildbill23c Pretentious.

[@cebuanostud]

I live in Chicago and having a Subaru is comforting during the harsh winter driving.

[@colleensmith3374]

Great analysis....be careful kickin that snow/ice! Love both these cars, partial to Subaru b/c cost and parents owned many growing up

[@oleg_kl]

Did Toyota just performed better then Forester? On previous video Toyota also gets much easier over the rocks

[@4orrcountry]

Nope. Did you watch the end of the video?

[@oleg_kl]

@@4orrcountry yep..and the transmission is working better all over the course

[@jamesgriffin1376]

Normal Mode works great in this type of traction situation i have found. Snow mode works betterfor like plowed streets and stopping/starting at intersections. Very happy with my rav4. Unstoppable in the winter with real winter tires studded hakkapeliitta 9's

[@needleontherecord]

As a former Subaru owner and current Toyota owner I would say that the Subaru will be more capable on the snow but the Toyota will last longer and won’t have engine or transmission issues in its mid life. Most people will never to drive in snow this deep unless It’s a Storm or emergency. Subaru will fight tooth and nail to not fix your car under warrantee so it’s safer to go the Toyota route.

[@jannerahkamaa1011]

I feel like you can do so much more with manual gearbox then automatic on those conditions. Been driving my outback on realy deep snow and climb hillroads at the sametime. Have been stopped but never been stuck.

[@jeffcoakley5675]

Really Just drive it like it should be A lot of folks will see this and drive like you Know your car and push it when you have too Get in a mt parking lot and get to know your ride in the snow Good advice for new drivers but really Good job and video

[@blancomputers1]

over years of my cars and having AWD gone back to my 3rd Subaru Outback

[@kingspartacus2407]

What I got from this is that you need the right tires for this and either vehicle will do even better than they did with shitty tires which is impressive.

[@richardschatz7208]

Pretty decent video. I would pick the RAV every time based on experience especially when considering the higher purchase price but lower maintenance costs and higher reliability. Just my thoughts though

[@dustind9242]

Solid performers for such inexpensive vehicles. Great value

[@jonathanhansen1222]

Great review / comparison video. I have a 2021 Forester and it is fantastic. But I would also be happy w/ a RAV4.

[@Chaos2Go]

I almost think that the "Snow" mode on the Rav4 activates the differential lock and if you drive too fast it starts to beep, so you probably only use the "Snow" mode when you are stuck and not intended to drive it all the time, and Of course, when going downhill, you deactivate the "Snow" mode again, which doesn't make any sense either....

[@lordtyroxx]

I might be a bit biased for subaru, but the beeping almost kills it for me with the RAV4. Glad it can be disabled. Though I will say, the snow mode looks so effortless when it's working.

[@gottafly30]

I grew up in the mountains. I was laughing throughout. great work!

[@dareisnogod5711]

I like watching vehicle testing, but I really don't like listening to your excessive commentary.

[@jovandjukic5923]

Bad tires!

[@allencampbell8322]

Subaru had to blaze the trail for Toyota

[@Chemike21]

Keep in mind that the Rav4 was dragging along the snow at its belly, slowing it down via friction with snow. Just saying. Clearance makes a massive difference.

[@edwardbiasi37]

If you're going to evaluate a vehicle off road you should probably put the proper tires on it. Tires can make a break of vehicle

[@camshaft74]

this is an awesome 'real world' demonstration - thank you !

[@Rubbereyes]

Interesting comparison. Personally I’d go for the Subaru. Price being a big factor but also a better residual trade in and resale value. Fact being I’m looking to purchase a Subaru in the spring.

[@erNomic]

That beeping would be a deal breaker

[@MarioLuigi-vb3rp]

The forester cleared up the path for the Toyota not really a fair analysis