Dual-Motor Ebikes... LEGAL OR NOT?

[@fingers054]

Here in British Columbia ebike regulations allow dual motors as long as they don't exceed 20mph and 500 watts total power.

[@AlterEgoElectricBikes]

Our dual motor e-bikes can be switched between dual and single motor, which is legal as long as the motor is 500W continuous or less.

[@davesskillet9235]

mine has 2000 watts had to buy a 750 watt for daily street use the AWD is off road only.

[@alanb76]

I added a second motor on one ebike for climbing steep hills. It is heavy but works great. The speed is essentially the same as the single motor but it can do it on steeper hills.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Dual-Motor really aids in hill climbing.

[@PaulTammaro]

I’am going with the Radio Silence approach while riding my class 3 bike . Not drawing any attention to the way I ride and not pissing off anybody around me . Oh come to think about that’s how I also ride ,so nothing to see here , keep it moving folks .

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Enjoy the ride!

[@johnrob3215]

If you're going 28 and not peddling, they'll notice.

[@PaulTammaro]

Always peddle , rear occasion may use the throttle.

[@ecocentrichomestead6783]

I will keep repeating that most ebike channels (so I assume most urban dwellers) want ebikes to act as street bikes. Aka street legal dirt bikes. If it wasn't for youtube channels promoting speed and reckless riding in traffic, there wouldn't be regulation crackdowns.

[@davidmoore3479]

ya , but that just comes down to policing . their job to enforce the bad behavior.

[@johnrob3215]

I think you already knew the answer to this, in Oregon the law doesn't mention Motors it just says cannot be powered by more than 1,000 Watts. Technically you could have 10 100 watt Motors and still being in compliance

[@stuwest3653]

The law states an ebike as a bicycle with fully operational pedals and AN electric motor under 750 watts. The key word is "an" which implies one motor. Otherwise it would say electric motorS under 750 watts.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Oregon is 1,000 watts.

[@johnrob3215]

Which law is that?

[@Timbodacious]

I'll be working around all these laws by towing a single wheeled bicycle trailer with a 1kw motor on its wheel. stick it to the man. dual 750 watters look like a gray area. they put out the same power each wheel and only give you one or two mph extra most times and if there's nothing saying no then......... who can enforce it? The logic seems the same with combining a 750 watt mid drive with a 750 watt front wheel or rear wheel drive i would assume.

[@raylivengood8040]

They better be legal, I just bought one ! 💪🏼

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Awesome!

[@Mark-qv4bn]

Ha ha. Where I live in Arizona, all ebikes and electric motorcycles are considered bicycles. As it should be. I no longer drive and ride my 3 ebikes daily. In my small town, there's a handful of ebikes, and they don't sell them here.

[@raylivengood8040]

@ I want to try “the Ring” path around Tucson someday. My brother lives there, but most of the time we fly to visit. Gotta take my car and bring the bike !

[@johnrob3215]

​@@Mark-qv4bnthis is not true

[@johnrob3215]

@@Mark-qv4bnno, you still must qualify as a class 1.2 or 3.

[@noahkuria19]

If you have 2 1000w motors. That will be illegal. Or 2 750w motors.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Why illegal?

[@noahkuria19]

2×1000= 2000w 750×2=1500

[@Timbodacious]

i would say they left it a grey area. each wheel is putting out the same watts and its giving the bike the same speed. alternatively you could use a nice singe wheeled bicycle trailer with a 1000 watt motor on it and a long throttle cable and it would be legal because its not part of the bike and there are no laws for it.

[@johnrob3215]

Generally but not necessarily. It depends upon the language and how was written in each country or state

[@moonzstar4638]

We should be able to ride whatever the the freak we want we have cool people on this earth who a smart enough to make e-bikes there shouldn’t be a law on any of these bikes. If we want dual motors we can have them if we wanna ride in the bike and ride in the bike lane god made us not humans ❤❤❤❤ love and live life to the fullest we only live once enjoy it 🎉🎉🎉

[@ronaldckrausejr7762]

Then you wouldn’;t mind if I buy a Kawasaki HR? A 200+ mph legal street motorcycle? How about a stand up scooter which can easily maintain a speed of 75mph for as long as the battery lasts?

[@johnrob3215]

Okay Spicoli...

[@somewhat.random]

If you read the "model legislation" that most of the States have already adopted, dual motors do not meet the definition of an ebike. Neither does a working throttle on a "class 3" ebike. That's ALREADY the law. So I have been breaking the "law" since I bought my bike in 2022. You know what's funny? I commute to work on it frequently, and ride right through downtown making a left turn directly in front of police headquarters. No cop has ever bothered me other than to say "hey, that's a nice bike!"

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Awesome!

[@alanb76]

The law doesn't mention throttles on class III. It only says pedaling is required.

[@somewhat.random]

@alanb76 In most States, the law is as follows: Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph. The law in my State is worded differently, but says the same thing: "The manufacturer shall manufacture all class 1 electric bicycles and class 3 electric bicycles so that when the rider ceases pedaling the electric motor ceases to provide assistance. The manufacturer shall manufacture all class 2 electric bicycles so that when the rider applies the brakes or releases or activates a switch or similar mechanism the electric motor ceases to provide assistance."

[@alanb76]

@@somewhat.random I've read many of the law texts and not found the words "no throttle". Instead they "require pedaling". So as long as pedaling is required a throttle is not disallowed. The key is pedaling required. You have to look at the actual law text because many interpretations contain the "no throttle" words, but those are not actually found in the law.

[@johnrob3215]

​You just made this up, didn't you

[@PTpeet]

How's the excelleration off the stop in an intersection and hill climbing from a stop on the Lyric Graffiti X?

[@oregonebikermark8953]

From a complete stop hill climb not great. From a stop at intersection it is not fast but after 5 seconds you go. Here's a Graffiti X hill climb video I did testing it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nn3Ii3ltZqqBb5I

[@PTpeet]

@@oregonebikermark8953 thanks for the feedback and link. I love the hill solution, to pedal!

[@sector7676]

I just recently purchased a dual 1000w motor/dual 20ah battery /52v / 38mph twist throttle bike from Alibaba.. But thankfully I don't live in California, Oregon, New York, etc😅

[@oregonebikermark8953]

You'll love the Dual-Motors.

[@sector7676]

@oregonebikermark8953 I'm sure I will, thanks. The front tire actually peels out when you give it full throttle 💪😁🤙

[@johnrob3215]

Can you throttle past 20mph?

[@johnrob3215]

@@sector7676 and what state do you live in?

[@johnrob3215]

@@sector7676 it peels out because there is little weight on the front tire. I have trikes with 500w motors that spin sometimes on excelleration. How old are you?

[@stevecumming6427]

Dual motors don't make the ebike go any faster so why would they be "illegal". If the law is ambiguous than the citizen's interpretation must be accepted. Any ambiguity must be to the disadvantage of those creating any ambiguity.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

I was thinking as you on this.

[@johnrob3215]

Weird, they make mine go faster

[@xLTxVEGAx]

Dual motors shouldn't be an issue as long as it follows the laws within your respective state since all it does is increase torque. I've been looking into getting the Meelod dk300 max because it's dual battery and dual motor, I could care less about the speed I just want good acceleration and hill climbing.

[@waktosha7378]

This would make my moped style e-bike illegal then. I have a throttle, goes 30 mph, and has a 1000 watt moror. Good thing I don't live where it's illegal. Otherwise I would be breaking the law, because I won't quit riding it!

[@johnrob3215]

Where do you live...

[@ronaldckrausejr7762]

Even worse for where I live… I cannot find an answer which is not conflicting. Local police state one thing, and then city another, then county states another, and then state police (very thorough answer, quite educational) state another. I was also driving one parallel to a state park; that one got an interesting answer. In the very near future for america, and btw this one is regardless of the person in administration, or also even the party… One could actually see that in the future for america, bicycle use by adult will actually be a part of licensing. One could also technically need to be insured. Who wants to take that bet??

[@donadams8345]

I don't think you want to hear the answer to the question you're asking.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Not sure there is an answer.

[@johnrob3215]

He knows the answer he's just Karma whoring

[@Nemonurwingy]

I think they would be illegal under the rules. Even if having two motors isn’t expressly illegal (which I think the argument is stronger it is illegal than it’s not) I’ve never seen a dual motor ebike that isn’t way more powerful than 750W combined. Every state I’m aware of caps it to 750W or 1,000W in a couple of cases. I can’t think of a dual motor ebike that doesn’t exceed both of those.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

The law should be more harsh on speed than power. Power is great for hills.

[@Nemonurwingy]

@ I don’t really think of it as a harshness thing. Where I sort of shake my head in the process is people seem to have this thinking where stuff is either an ebike, or it’s illegal. I think there should be e-bikes that have limits and responsibilities increase as the device gets faster. I hear you on the dual motor thing, but generally speaking higher power correlates with faster. Not perfectly, but dual 750W e-bikes are faster than single motor 750W e-bikes. For me, if stuff goes higher speed where they are really out there mixing with road traffic, it doesn’t seem unreasonable they’d have a license plate.

[@johnrob3215]

It depends on how it's worded in each State's legislation

[@alanb76]

The controller sets the power fed to each motor. So when you set up the controllers you can set the max power to each wheel and stay under the total power level the battery can deliver and the regulations allow. The motor can't draw more power than the controller allows. It's all in the electronics and software. Voltage sets the speed and current sets the torque. The controllers use pulse width modulation to reduce and control the current and effective voltage. Two motors can produce more torque with less heating and power loss (higher efficiency) but the top speed is set by the voltage and doesn't really increase over a single motor. Two motors accelerate better and climb better, and on slippery surfaces they provide a safer and more sure footed ride. On gravel, sand, desert or dirt roads they are really excellent compared to single motors. Ride safe.

[@nataliepierce-shult1052]

I have a question. I own a walkie H7 dual motor. I live in Florida, but I’m also an OTR truck driver where I drive all 48 states. I have my bike mounted on the back of my catwalk of my cab and I like to get out and ride it whenever I’m on downtime with all these states implement different rules, I’m a little concerned because what’s legal in my state may not be legal where I’m at and it’s really hard to keep up with it. So I register my bike in Florida as a low powered moped and I get a little Florida license plate for it does that make it legal to ride in all 48 states because it’s registered and I have insurance on it? or California or Oregon still say nope sorry it’s illegal here

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Great question. Unfortunately I do not know. If it doesn't cover all states, does that mean you need plates etc. For each state? That would be crazy.

[@Alan-l3i7d]

I believe that you will need to follow the rules in the state where you are riding, not where you are from.

[@johnrob3215]

Yes.

[@davesskillet9235]

I parked my AWD and bought a new one motor ebike 750 watt, not happy with that I was really enjoying my AWD ebike only to find out it's for off road only I nerfed my AWD not to exceed 20mph but need better clarification one two motors in my state.

[@andyb1221]

I think that the combined power of the two motors would have to be limited to 750 watts to make it legal for street use. I don't know if the law refers to electrical power input or mechanical power output. I have heard of police departments getting dynomometers to check the power output of two wheeled vehicles. If you add the second motor yourself, you might need to leave it disconnected or turned off for legal street use. If you go off road and get stuck in snow or mud, you could activate the front motor for extra traction until you get past the slippery area. Since the front wheel carries less weight, it should have less power than the rear wheel to avoid wheel spin. Making visible modifications might not be worth the risk in New York City. I keep seeing stories of police taking dirt bikes, motorcycles, ATVs, scooters, mopeds and E-bikes when they think a rule was not followed. This happens when they find parked vehicles or when they make a roadblock on a bike lane or bike path. When they are looking at an E-bike, they might be comparing it to lists of legal and illegal (too powerful or too fast) models. They destroy the bikes they take with bulldozers and make news stories about protecting pedestrans from bike riders.

[@howardlee8337]

I'm an 81 yo former bicyclist and current ebike rider. Simply defined, bicycle is a two wheel vehicle that has pedals and is powered by a cyclist. A moped is a two wheel vehicle that has a pedals and powered by a specific size motor. The motor propels the moped. A motorcycle doesn't have pedals but has foot pegs and powered by a motor larger than a moped motor. Ebikes are vehicles that have pedals and are powered by electric motor(s). The ebike cyclist assists the motor. If the ebike electric motor(s) produces power equal to or less than a moped's gasoline motor, it's a moped with an electric motor(s). It should follow the laws and regulations that pertain to mopeds. If the ebike electric motor(s) creates power greater than a moped motor, it's a motor cycle and it has pedals that are used as foot pegs. It should follow the laws that pertain to motorcycles.

[@johnrob3215]

Well said. Unfortunately, probably not understood by most.

[@knowEgo]

No disrespect but I grow uncomfortable with the Terms “Legal or Illegal when speaking of electric bikes…I mean it’s not cocaine or heroin we’re speaking of lol. For context let’s say I have an electric bike that’s capable of going 45 mph but I only ride it going 15 mph is it still illegal? Or is it only illegal if I ride it 45 mph? Lol. The conversation is getting out of control IMO

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Should I say yes sir nor sir? Lol

[@johnrob3215]

Yes

[@Alan-l3i7d]

Lets face it....If a 50cc gasoline powered motorcycle with a top speed of 28 mph is required to be licensed and insured, then our 750 watt, electric powered Ebike with a top speed of 28 mph should also be licensed and insured as required by law. The real motorcyclist, have been required to purchase permits, license plates, helmets and insurance for many years. Real motorcyclist, had to endure people saying that "MOTORCYCLES ARE DANGEROUS", and "MOTORCYCLIST SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO WEAR HELMETS". And so here we Ebikers are! We are crying fowl because we can not ride OUR Ebikes on the public streets, without being licensed, insured, and wearing a helmet! The time has come, for us law abiding Ebikers, to stick together, put our big boy pants on, and consider protesting by speeding at 30 mph. Perhaps we could all get tattoos, sport black leather jacket's with gang affiliation patch's, and form a nation wide Ebiker club here in America! They say there is strength in numbers.... Perhaps only then, will we see a huge increase of rebel outlaw Ebikers.... fleeing, eluding, popping wheelies, and attempting to out run the law at 30 mph, while filming a KZbin video. By doing so, we would advoid tickets, legal fee's, court dates, and getting our Chinese Ebikes impounded. If we all stick together, we can change these silly rules! EBIKERS UNITE.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

If we played, insure etc. We would want to ride faster and not in a debris filled bikelane.

[@Timbodacious]

those 50cc bikes usually just need a one time registration for the life of the entire bike in many states. no insurance or turn signals or anything are required on them.

[@Alan-l3i7d]

@ Plates and insurance would allow us to ride on the street.

[@Timbodacious]

@ you're already allowed to ride in the street 3 feet of the right lane is yours.

[@shoeik5276]

Going over 40mph is pretty fast. Then When if you crush something like killed pedestrians, what are you gonna do without any insurance?

[@chuckwolf9869]

As the owner of the best dual motor ebike made I don't care if mine is "legal" My Philodo H8 has a fully functional pedal assist system so it's still an electric bicycle, just because it makes 3000 watts between the 2 motors and can go 35 mph shouldn't matter.

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Those bikes are priced well too.

[@johnrob3215]

No, it's not. If it doesn't meet the qualifications as a class 1, 2 or 3 Ebike, it is a 2 wheel motorized vehicle and more than likely treated as a moped or motorcycle.

[@chuckwolf9869]

@@johnrob3215 hi sanjosethrower, following me around even in youtube comments I see

[@johnrob3215]

@@chuckwolf9869 huh? You're schizo...and your bike is only 2000w and the 26ah battery is a joke with dual motors. But you can buy a 23ah backup for the low low price of 600...hehehe.

[@johnrob3215]

@@oregonebikermark8953 they dropped the price because they won't be able to sell them anywhere soon.

[@jamesbarry2388]

This is ridiculous just don’t make a scene and enjoy that’s it!

[@M.TTT.]

Who cares, ride it anyway, legal or not.

[@terryrccrazy6993]

I'm not sure if it's legal or not, I have one here in Canada and love it

[@oregonebikermark8953]

They are great.

[@johnrob3215]

Does your e-bike have more than 500 W in can it go faster than 20 mph?

[@alanb76]

The rules don't mention number of motors.

[@johnrob3215]

Most of the time they don't mention motors.

[@riverbelowmountain]

Your working to hard to make it a bicycle. Just register it as an electric motor cycle and have fun with it. Ride the roads and go where dirt bikers ride...

[@oregonebikermark8953]

Not sure I can.

[@alanb76]

To register you need to meet DOT requirements including tires, you need brake lights and turn signals and DOT headlights and tail lights and a manufacturers VIN number and documentation from the manufacturer or you have to go through a certification process that meets all the DOT requirements for the class of vehicle you are registering. It's quite a process. They you'll have to find insurance that will accept it. And you also loose access to bike lanes. For a commuter these bike lanes may be the best part of an ebike's use case.