DUNDEE - In the Old Days

A look at Dundee today and back in the 1870s when James Valentine took a series of photographs of the city. Has much survived from those old days?
Starting in The Howff burial ground we pause awhile to consider all the ship masters buried here, and how the Dundee of today won't have just so many ship masters; probably because there aren't just as many ships in Dundee's docks as there once were, and even if there were they wouldn't all fit in because around half of Dundee's docks have been filled in and transformed into gardens, like Slessor Gardens.
Passing Slessor Gardens we then board the oldest warship in Scotland, one of the sixth oldest in the world: HMS Unicorn. We spend a while on the gun-deck and introduce James Valentine, a Dundee-based photographer who went on to create the Valentine series of postcards, and who captured many street scenes and images of the now-vanished docks before they were later filled in and later swept away to make way for approach roads to and from the Tay Road Bridge.
In The McManus, Dundee's Art Gallery & Museum, we then talk briefly about the Tay railway bridge disaster in 1879 when 75 passengers lost their lives. And in that museum they have a window from one of the train carriages that plunged into the icy waters of the Firth of Tay on that fateful day. Hard to imagine a more moving object in any museum in the world.
We then look at the city's many surviving mill buildings where Jute imported in the docks was transformed into sacking cloth and other useful items.
Valentine's 1870s images of Dundee are never far from our mind and we look at old photographs taken all over the city, from the Wishart Arch to the High Street and the lost Trades Hall building, and surviving buildings by Reform Street and the statue of the Beano comic character Desperate Dan.
With views taken from the top of The Law all over Dundee and the Firth of Tay, we pause for one last photo by Dunhope Castle, once a military barracks, then end with a pint in The Speedwell Bar, a perfectly-preserved Edwardian pub also known affectionately as Mennie's after a landlady who worked there for around 50 years.

[@johnbruce2868]

I grew up living in my grannie's flat in Rustic Place, Dudhope Street, off the Conchie Hill opposite Barrack Road. I remember monkeys being kept in cages near the park, the smell of the bar down the hill, the back yard full of washing lines, Draffens and getting into trouble for splashing in the cundie. My mother (born in Arbroath) went to the Morgan Academy. My father, from Brechin, ex-Black Watch, commuted to Glasgow every week and my granny would always buy him 20 'fags' at the weekend. My Uncle Tom was a captain mostly on the Ellerman Lines jute shipping run from Dundee to Calcutta via Cape Town. He used to bring back toys from his journeys and I still have a mechanical walking bear from Macy's, New York. I recall the stuffed stag ("Mr. Stag") in the museum entrance. So many memories. Wherever I roam, Dundee is still my home (God Lord! That's nearly as good as William McGonagall). As is often said... You can take the man oot o' Dundee. You cannie take Dundee oot the man.

[@debraoliver505]

My grandpa Fyffe was born in Dundee as was 3 more generations before him! He lived 1880-1981 and so I knew him growing up and asked lots of stories of his life. He actually grew up in St. Andrews and eventually came to America in 1923 where I am now. I won't have a chance to visit over there but my aunt and uncle visited there with my grandpa in the 1960s. Thanks so much for the tour. I now live in Florida and do genealogy as a hobby.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers Debra. It's a shame you can't visit Dundee these days. It's a lovely place.

[@sandersson2813]

Wow, that's about 35 years longer than I'd expect a Dundonian to live now.

[@barbarahalkyard1901]

Dont know anything about Dundee. Except as a kid in the 60s my nan always had a tin of Dundee Biscuits in the pantry. Which didnt last long .Once my sisters and brothers got there paws on them.

[@Shining-Star-]

Did you manage to travel to Dundee? 🥰

[@johnledingham852]

Thank you so much for a wonderful outing, and commentary. I'm now 76 years of age, born and raised in Australia. My dad was born in Dundee (Invergowrie) and his family immigrated to Australia. Just prior to the outbreak of Covid-19 my sister and her husband, along with my wife and I, spent two glorious weeks in Scotland. We loved all of Scotland, but I found my heartstrings were strummed by Dundee.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers John.

[@laf5537]

Glad you enjoyed it John I hope you felt at home. Would love you back! _

[@JohnAndersonWhite]

​ Dear Ed., Thank you for bringing us back something of the past. When I saw Valentines photo of the Royal Victoria Arch in your presentation, my heart just pounded, I remember as a 7 year old, meeting my mother's future 2nd husband there, a French Naval Officer with the Free French and serving on the Rubis Submarine😢 It was a Magnificent Monument with a great symbolic, and I most regret that it was demolished in 1960 to make way for the Tay road. Ed, thank you for reviving such memories.. John Anderson White

[@EdExploresScotland]

Many thanks John.

[@alexcochrane8446]

Thanks for that Ed. From a Dundonian it's nice to see a video concentrating on the fine old buildings from the past rather than the "modern" ones we have been saddled with. Keep up the good work.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers Alex. 👍

[@user-ht9jw5mo4s]

I lived in Dundee for 4 years and loved it.

[@stephenfarrell6794]

I was born in Dundee in the Lochee neighborhood. The last place we lived in Dundee (before immigrating to America in '62) was on Dock St before they built the Road Bridge. I used to walk across to the baths and sometimes go through the Victoria Arch. Fishing in the Tay and seeing what boats were in the docks, went on a US submarine when I was about eight or nine. Great video with the photographs.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers Stephen.

[@alanyoung9200]

Dundee has changed a great deal. Since 1962

[@alanyoung9200]

That arch was Awesome ,they should never have demolished it

[@vermeerofdelftscotlandwalk3294]

The Victoria Royal Arch was demolished in the 1960s. That was the peak time for destroying anything historic. Some great 1870s photos by James Valentine, including the one showing a man lying on the ground having a rest. A friend of mine has been known to have a rest in the gutter on the way home after a night out. I wonder if they could be related.😁 Great video.👍

[@EdExploresScotland]

Yes, lying down on the pavement has a lot going for it.

[@KinEllKokabel]

Pigeon Palace had to go

[@mudskipper0075]

It was demolished to allow for the Tay Bridge exit slip road….completely unnecessary.

[@eileanvm]

Every time you say something is 'gone', I feel so sad. Because so much of our fine old architectural world is exactly that, gone, never to return. I can't believe those scroundrals used that beautiful Victorian arch to fill in a dock. Same thing happened to the St.Enoch Hotel in Glasgow. Crimes that nobody went to prison for. Dundee is a city I've not visited. So interesting to see it now compared to then. Your music has taken a slightly new direction, with the light-filled sound of 'bells'. And I love the way the end section builds, and the two guitar parts in harmony. Great control over the 'pipe' sound, with natural-sounding bends. Not to get analytical mind you. If music makes us FEEL some emotion, then it is doing it's job. And you appear to have the gift of making music that stirs feeling. I'm running out of hankies watching your videos!

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Eilean.

[@hrw3mom103]

Thank you for sharing the old photos and history of Dundee. We recently visited Dundee when we dropped our daughter at uni there. We were curious about the old buildings we saw. It’s wonderful to learn about the history and see how it’s changed.

[@wazzazone]

Eddy my great great grandfather was a silver Smith in Dundee Robertson McGregor was his name he travelled to Australia with his family in the 1800s, My ancestors are buried in the Howff, thankyou so very much for a historical look at my roots.

[@susanboyd5421]

Really enjoyed looking back in time. Much appreciate .

[@legalmac99]

Wonderful video! Now I have noticed that you also do the music too. A man 8f many talents! Went to university in Dundee, good memories!

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Sylvia.

[@jamesmcdougall6338]

Most of my family are from Bonnie Dundee, Clan McDougall. Great to see this video today, thankyou.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers James.

[@lionelmerbles9375]

Ahh the tay bridge disaster. It wil be remembered for a very very very long time

[@EdExploresScotland]

It must have been an awful sight.

[@colinblack7049]

Hi Ed, I've got great memories of Dundee going around the mills delivering and collecting. The narrow cobbled streets weren't the best for getting a large ish truck in and out, and it was the same with the new shopping centres. When my two boys were wee they enjoyed going to the swimming pool right next to the Tay. We put our caravan on the site in Monifieth and drove in, the pool had big slides that went outside and then back in. But, just like a lot of old towns it's sad to see most of the old interesting buildings have gone. Thanks for the memories Ed.

[@quantumblurrr]

That’s Olympia which was condemned after a kid died in it, it was in serious need of an update, very yellow. We have a new Olympia not far from there

[@roberthendry7408]

Fantastic video, I grew up in Dundee in the 70s and found this very interesting.Also enjoyed your narrative style and comparisons with old photos and up to date views of the same area. One new subscriber here. ❤️

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Robert.

[@Matzeschloe]

Nice to see those old photos, remembers me on my own hometown here in Germany. My Grandfather had lots of those pictures.

[@davidj009]

My town! Thanks for the video and the info ed, great stuff as always 😎

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers David.

[@jocky2]

Thanks a lot Eddie for this really enjoyable and informative video. When I go to Dundee again (last time I went was when I was 4, when my uncle and aunt took me in the back of an old Ford in 1960) I will have some idea of the place and it's history. That photo of the 2 kids, touches my heart, how we were in those days not a care in the world, a beautiful moment. No such thing as nike trainers then was there , but who cared.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Yes, it's a very moving image. I always wonder what they were thinking; minds lost in a stunning view of the River Tay.

[@Rocenante]

Another excellent video Ed, pretty close to time traveling with the side by side photos

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks 👍

[@Mr_Iain]

Excellent video of Dundee, thanks for sharing your knowledge and all the content.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Many thanks.

[@annhinrichs5587]

Another beautiful video with most interesting information. I was moved by the words and photo of the little children in the video's opening minutes. Thank you Ed !

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Ann. It's a lovely photo. Pretty much looks like they are indeed just admiring the view, barefoot and all.

[@MarkMcDougall]

Absolutely brilliant video. Thank you.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Mark.

[@alloverdundee7722]

Highly enjoyed this tour through my home town, Halley's bar at the top of the Hilltown (Tap O' the Hull) just down from the historic clock still has screens at the sides of the seats like in Mennys.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Many thanks for that information.

[@peterfeltham5612]

Great video Ed, really enjoyed watching.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Peter.

[@wendyhunter6853]

My great granny Birse was from Dundee born in the 1890's...house no longer there, high rise flats, St Mary's place...love to see photos of what it used to look like...a poor and hard life in those days

[@logicwar3943]

Loved this. Really well done

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thank you.

[@davidmuir6849]

Fantasy Ed ,thanks for sharing very informative. Regards Dave from Cupar

[@peterjmhardie8239]

great web site Eddie thankyou peter from edinburgh

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Peter.

[@peterjmhardie8239]

wonderfull

[@lynnthomason6589]

Really loved this Eddy. You do such a good job with these historical videos. Thanks for sharing your research and memories. They are priceless! Lynn in Naples 😎

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers Lynn.

[@thomasks3]

Great video Ed. I’ll have to try one of those ginger beer drinks - looks refreshing 😅

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks. Can of ginger beer in a pint glass, no ice, topped up with soda water and lime. Delicious.

[@Jamie-kn1fw]

My Grandma was from Dundee.. She was my best friend growing up!

[@claudiadavidson4191]

Beautiful video from Dundee! Thank you very much for sharing History from that City. I lived there for a few years. And after to watch it brought me lots of nostalgia to see all of those places where I walked around a few years ago. Greetings and many thanks again

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Claudia.

[@krystalgorman86]

Hey ed im new to your channel but im from dundee and was awesome to see this video of the history of old dundee and also seeing todays dundee so thank you for sharing this video is just beautiful

[@EdExploresScotland]

Many thanks.

[@krystalgorman86]

@@EdExploresScotland you are absolutely welcome 😁

[@RabP-m2i]

Excellent, very interesting video, and great music too

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Rab.

[@kenrob4965]

great video of my hometown mate

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks 👍

[@kaylewis-wickes2540]

wonderful

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thank you.

[@MM-qg9fq]

My Grandfather grewup in Dundee, as well my mother went to High School of Dundee

[@robertlees7528]

Hi Ed HMS trincomalee at hartlepool is worth a visit fully rigged Dundee worth exploring and the nearby broughty ferry castle keep those vlogs flowing! Regards Robert

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers Robert. Broughty Ferry certainly worth a visit.

[@Grant-gk5mw]

Dundee lad here. Great work mate.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks Grant. They've made a good job of the area by the river.

[@Gieza-Brake-Pahl]

Loved the video but as an old school publican (long retired) I was horrified at seeing that dirty glass on the shelf behind you throughout your monologue. In the good old days rule one was clear the dirty glasses, two was wipe the surfaces, ah well changed times indeed 😀.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Many thanks. I hadn't paid much attention to that glass, but you're absolutely right.

[@peterjmhardie8239]

still learning so be good with me regards Peter Hardie Edinburgh

[@1964biggmark]

another city that I've not been to in many a year ,unless you count passing through and stopping at Tesco for refreshments lol

[@anaccount8474]

I've many a good night in Mennies, fantastic pub

[@EdExploresScotland]

Absolutely.

[@Earlofmar1]

you didn't go to 62 Church St in the Hilltown, or what's there now, and tell us that's where my granny lived. Or that I spent some formative years there, perhaps another episode, lol

[@billybeveridge9172]

No shoes on the kids in that great photo 😂

[@EdExploresScotland]

Yes, it's an absolutely cracking photo. You sort of wonder what exactly they were looking at. Just the overall view, I suppose.

[@JimmyCrawford]

I might be misremembering this, but the Victoria Arch was never meant to be a permanent thing. It was thrown up in a hurry before a visit, then kinda hung around as nobody wanted to be the one to demolish it. Was probably a hazard to health by the time it was knocked down?

[@magnuswalker7957]

The Arch was demolished to make way from the Tay road bridge approach roads

[@lilianmackenzie4248]

I have just seen a photo of my grandfather standing in a jute shed. He is the one with the walking stick

[@EdExploresScotland]

Hi Lilian. The following link will take you to a National Galleries Scotland page, which is where I got what I think is the image you are referring to. You can enlarge and zoom in on the image. I'm sure if you were to contact National Galleries Scotland you would be able to obtain a copy. All the best. www.nationalgalleries.org/art-and-artists/178973

[@lilianmackenzie4248]

Thank you very much. There was a similar photo in the verdant mill museum when it opened years ago. It was part of a mural as you walked in. I dont know if it is still there.@@EdExploresScotland

[@MarleyBu]

Sad to see all those beautiful auld buildings demolished, replaced by all those awfy "lego" ones. Cant see people in the future pining over them. Beanotoon forever!

[@gb194]

Dudhope castle 😄.....dudup is the dundonian pronunciation. Love the photo o btm o hulltoon.

[@EdExploresScotland]

I'm always mispronouncing things. Many thanks.

[@richardscott4847]

I'm sure the Unicorn was used as a Borstal, and I remember the bus stances outside the Arcade as a child.

[@geoffdundee]

Dundee’s “bad boys” ship, the TS Mars was anchored on the River Tay for more than 60 years. During that time, she transformed the lives of over 6,000 homeless and destitute boys from across Scotland.

[@bertifrasilmeye995]

Hi I noticed the bar counter window was offset. Then I thought the amount of skirmishes at the bar over the years,bound to be changed multiple times. PS. Is it fuzz and chorus in the"solo" on the SG you use? ATB and keep up the good work.

[@EdExploresScotland]

I didn't notice that re the counter screen. Very strange. It does hint at the screen being wider at some stage, but I'm inclined to think it would then be too wide. Definitely something to think about. The guitar effects in the solo bit come with the Cubase Elements software, and are often a range of different effects lumped together. I think I used an effect called 'MayQueen' which is clearly referring to Brian May of Queen. Can't imagine it's really that close to Brian's sound, but I like it nonetheless.

[@bertifrasilmeye995]

@@EdExploresScotland Cheers.. only foot pedals in my day

[@alexblizzard9113]

Hi Ed, Great Video, I'd love to know what the music is, it defeated shazzam!

[@EdExploresScotland]

Hi Alex. It's just music I made in the house, bit like a cake I suppose. Use Cubase Elements software.

[@alexblizzard9113]

@@EdExploresScotland its very good, goes very well with the content. Thanks.

[@krystlev6810]

I traced an ancestor all the way back to Dundee Scotland ,John Mckenzie

[@rev.valeriehamann4049]

My great-grandfather George Young was born in Scotland and became a prisoner. As a prisoner, he was placed into the bottom of a ship to be banished to the island of Australia. But he escaped and jumped ship off the coast of South Africa. He ended up in a concentration camp during the English Boer war. He fell in love with the daughter of a prominent lawyer Scanlan and Scanlan, their marriage was frowned upon by Johanna Margaretta Gertrude Scanlan's father because George was a prisoner. Their son James William Peace Young was my grandfather. I would love to know what crime George committed to land him in prison.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Hi Valerie. It's not something I know anything about. Companies who specialize in family trees would be able to point you in the right direction. Many are listed online. Good luck.

[@mrkiwijimmymrkiwijimmy2530]

They never flogged men on the lower decks because there wasn't enough room to swing a cat ( cat'o'nine tails. )

[@ImpartiallySpeaking]

Surprising no inclusion of Dundee’s cultural heritage ties to Frankenstein author Mary Shelley who lived in Dundee between 1812-1814

[@EdExploresScotland]

Can't include everything, but it's an interesting fact that I didn't know about. Next time I'm in Dundee I'll ascend the Frankenstein Steps.

[@naturelvr123]

Very interesting. We spent 1 night in Dundee while on our way to London then home to the states. No time to sightsee but question 1 why the US flag, German flag & maybe. your Scot flag on the building at 16:49? Question 2. I took a photo from my hotel room (& through the glass!) looking west of what appears to be maybe some apartment building to the west. If I could send that photo to you maybe you can explain what it is. We, I thought, were the only country that destroyed old , precious building but they call it progress, IDK. I like your video.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Hi Paul. Not sure why the flags are on top of Caird Hall. It's a concert hall, with acts from, I'm sure, all over the world, so maybe the flags just represent the cultural diversity of the performances.

[@sandyjack1901]

Demolishing the Royal Arch was an act of legalised vandalism. From a Ex Pat Dundonian

[@allnightmike8374]

My grandad said it was an eyesore full of pigeons and unkempt is this true?

[@jameswoodford2628]

The Mars was a floating borstal for naughty boys and the partition in the pub would be the Snug where the women sat separately from the men's drinking area.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Cheers James. I believe that some pubs had bar counter partitions that simply gave a little privacy while sat at the counter.

[@jameswoodford2628]

No Ed, I think that you misunderstand, the "Snug" was for females, men were not welcome and often had their own entrance so that the males would not be disturbed by their presence., women/Sheila's in the normal bar area was frowned upon. obviously much has changed and males struggle to get to the bar these days through the crowd of females demanding service.. That's progress for you.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Hi James. I'm not misunderstanding. I'm aware of the term snugs, but these were generally separate tiny rooms in a pub, and not separated by just a counter screen. On the very few occasions where the snug was not a small room, the area of the snug would have had partitions of more substance and size than a narrow counter screen which, as I say, was just there for a bit of privacy for those sat at the counter. Pubs with counter screens did not just have one screen; they had a few of them arranged at intervals. As you say, women weren't allowed in the general bar area, and it was only in the second half of the 20th century that ladies toilets were introduced in pubs. Of course, maybe the interior of Mennies has been fiddled with over the years, and maybe there was once a snug, but as it's a listed interior I'm inclined to think it is original. You can also see counter screens in The Scotia Bar in Glasgow. All the best.

[@jameswoodford2628]

@@EdExploresScotland this should have been in your first reply then I would not have thought you misunderstood.

[@EdExploresScotland]

James, there's far too much misunderstooding going on here. Take care mate.

[@normancameron6165]

I was born Allen street near dog kennels at cowgate school moved baltic street off the wellgate in allen street lived above allen arms baltic street above forresters arms jock thomson pub now you no why i drink

[@systemSkynet]

Dude you inhale after every sentence like the polis are asking you to do a breath test.

[@EdExploresScotland]

Thanks for your comment. How do you suggest I sort it?

[@systemSkynet]

@@EdExploresScotland when my brother and I find each others youtube still signed in we leave cheeky comments via their name. I'm now scrolling through replies from comments I hadn't made. Haha. It's funny though. In this case at least I get an old Dundee video to watch. I'll watch out for this breathing. Thanks for the upload

[@EdExploresScotland]

No bother. I'll practise holding my breath and talking.