DUNE PART TWO REVIEW [SPOILERS]

[@NerdCookies]

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[@darkthorpocomicknight7891]

Before you were just a racist and just a moron but now you're full blown liar "consistent with muh books..." Maybe read books without being high on crack lololol

[@klyanadkmorr]

Thanks ITA this movie LOOKS great but NEEDED a script from SYFY Dune.

[@koko40800]

To me the most unfaithful part of Dune 2 (which I liked overall) was Margot giving Feyd the gom jabbar test....I agree NC, that was totally unnecessary, and only someone with BG training in nerve control could survive the test...unless Margot gave him less pain, but it still didn't make sense...the point of her sleeping with Feyd, besides getting the potential KH bloodlines, was to implant a code word in Feyd to immobilize him if he got too dangerous (you may recall in the book Jessica told Paul the code word before his fight with Feyd, but Paul wouldn't use it)....so it would have made more sense if they showed Margot 'imprinting' Feyd during sex...it might have also been a hotter scene ;-)

[@klyanadkmorr]

Based off this film I don't look forward to Denis' Dune Messiah. The feel and feudal desert city Syfy CoD's Messiah segment was only 1.5hr approx but gave you the idea of how disgusted his empire had become made him, BUT YOU FELT THE CULTURE OF ARRAKIS FREMEN the people and SEITCHes, Denis' films you feel know NOTHING of cultural substance abt these oh so diverse proper looking POC native Fremen beyond stereotyping looking islam/jewish praying but except little snarky Mall chicks with Chani, whose seemed mostly pissfaced with no real wisdom or balance. No daily life feel or Chani/Paul as a couple, nothing abt Jamis family kids Paul adopts. Made me feel the film was as much a waste as Chani storming off in the last few minutes. She shouldn't be how the lesson is learned of not being a blind follower. The meaningful love Paul/Chani have(NOT SHOWN or given a reality) is what brings abt Chani having a baby again and the intrege of her being poisoned by for the BG. Chani was supposed to be killing challengers while Paul was in coma with water of life showing she trusts him as her love NOT messiah. I feel not just cheated but dejected and disgusted like Syfy Dune Paul as the effusive to the point of slavering praise for this film to make $ Yt or Twit/Tiktok is getting is as crappy as the Fremen running off to war jihad. I wanted the production cinematography quality Denis can give but he needed the Syfy writers writing knowing how to make the dialogue people feel quality novel core. I just don't care anymore and if I want Dune I listen to the audiobooks goto sleep and dream it

[@johnwillis8223]

Wow, they completely ruined the story arc for St. Alia of the knife and you're applauding this movie? That's pretty disappointing. . .

[@askhaugerudhovik]

I was completely convinced by Javier Bardems portrayal of stilgar. In fact, one of my favorite moments in the film was in the tent in the desert where Paul got his name. Such a genuine moment of affection between the two

[@NerdCookies]

I LOVE that naming scene!!! A highlight of the film for me! When Stilgar got serious, those were some great moments.

[@RodneyGraves]

@@NerdCookies Walud! not that big!

[@askhaugerudhovik]

@@NerdCookies yeah:) Watching that felt like being there. Like, just me and the gang out in the desert

[@azimuthclark462]

That scene was one of my favorites. More Stihgar needed, less Chani.

[@VishnuZutaten]

He is a completely different Stulgar though. The one in the book was great warrior that everybody feared. The one in the movie is old guy that girls laugh at.

[@julio_scissors]

Your's and Quinn's reviews were the ones to which I was most looking forward. Awesome to get them both in one day! I can't wait to see the film. All the best!

[@1984-i1w]

and Secrets of Dune!

[@maikilreategui1271]

Same

[@DG-gx4sg]

I do really love the Paul vs Feyd duel, especially the shot at 12:48 which says so much about the differences between the two cousins. Paul gets into a proper fighting stance and says "may thy knife chip and shatter" with conviction. While Feyd is hunched over and replies in a sort of mocking tone before lunging straight towards Paul without hesistation like the wild animal he is. Which makes Feyd's previous scene with Lady Fenring so disappointing in hindsight - there's no way this unhinged black-toothed freak could have survived a Gom Jabbar test.

[@0ckwa]

It felt like he was able to pass the gom jabbar test. I never felt like he was unstable.

[@koko40800]

@@0ckwa Only if Margot gave Feyd less pain...only someone with BG training in nerve control could pass the test, as Mohiam gave it to Paul (she actually gave him more pain than the average BG test, b/c she was trying to kill him)....Some ppl think that was some kind of 'foreplay' but it was still a silly scene imo...I would have rather seen them going at it...A Harkonnen psycho and a BG, that could be steamy....porn producers take note! lolol

[@emilywilhite5807]

I heard a theory that Feyd is so crazy he actually enjoys pain and that’s how he passed the test.

[@Letodan71]

well, the gom jabbar is supposed to separate humans from animals. Therefore, if you can control your mind and your will, you can pass the test. It is not said that you need to have a Bene Gesserit education to succeed. We know that Paul and Feyd are two prospects for the bloodlines which are supposed to create the Kwizatz Haderach. They can both pass the test using their own ways of controlling their mind. Therefore, I have no problem with Feyd succeeding here. His craziness and control over his pain (his love of it) made him pass the test.

[@muddlewait8844]

@@emilywilhite5807They actually imply that in the movie… which is, I think, a worthwhile criticism of the test itself.

[@mightelle]

One of the best things I liked about the Dune miniseries is that Chani was a mother and even though the characters were older, they had chemistry and I felt her struggle in Dune Messiah to bear another child.

[@RodneyGraves]

I don't believe Chani or Jessica are well served in this adaptation,

[@joew9690]

@@RodneyGraves Exactly.

[@VishnuZutaten]

Zendaya is awful. Why they casted wealthy anorexic fashion model for a very grounded, down to earth, fierce and fanatic firemen warrior... There is a limit of believability even for more experienced actors

[@koko40800]

I liked it overall (woke up early today to catch the first day matinee I could)....and I understand many of the cinematic reasons for the changes...even Chani leaving at the end kind of leaves the viewer on a cliffhanger, as opposed to Jessica's "History will call us wives" final line of the book...still, I was really hoping to see toddler Alia on the battlefield, knifing Sardaukar and Harkonnen soldiers to death....I suppose I'll have to leave that one for my morbid imagination

[@RodneyGraves]

@@koko40800 What I have heard of the differences in Chani and already seen in Jessica render me skeptical of the faithfulness of this adaptation. The canon for *Dune* was a hero's journey, which then morphed in *Heretic* and *Children* into something else entirely. I'll have more to say after I've seen it on Tuesday.

[@StephaneDesnault]

What I missed most is the Guild. It feels like one third of the universe is missing. Dune is (among other things) about the 3 great powers: Religious (Bene Gesserit), Secular (the Empire) and the Bankers/Industrialists (The Guild), with the latter actually towering over the other two in the book and in Lynch's version. An entire layer is missing here, as great as the movie remains.

[@1984-i1w]

the guild is not the bankers/industrialists, it's the guild navigators who make interstellar travel possible by plotting a course through space

[@RodneyGraves]

@x5cd4px3k As Paul infers and his mother confirms, the Guild focused on Mathematics and the Sisterhood on Politics. The Mentats are not discussed thus but are focused on statistics and probability.

[@aptaylor75]

The guild is nothing more than a taxi service in the first novel. The scene in the 84 Lynch movie is NOT canonical. Edric appears in Dune Messiah and before that they stay offscreen. So, bite it troll.

[@ragingtomato04]

​@@aptaylor75without the guild, the emperor will not take Paul's threat of destroying spice seriously. They are the one who have limited prescient. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't consult a guildsman or at the very least his truthsayer before handing over his daughter and his empire.

[@Seven_Kingdoms77]

Well even with all of the complaints, we are getting Dune:Messiah thankfully since this movie will no doubt be a success and continue as a monumental achievement!

[@javiervasquez625]

Yet what are the odds that the movie will _also_ suffer deviations from the source material to the point of been radically different and possibly ending in a completley different way to the book? For all we know the adaptation might end on a "lighter" tone dismissing the message at the core of Paul's story after he becomes Emperor.

[@philbc10]

@@javiervasquez625that’s my fear as well. I hope they don’t change the love story between Paul and Chani. And the way it ended, they have a lot to do to make their relationship believable moving foward.

[@javiervasquez625]

@@philbc10 And yet we already ended the first book giving Denis very little movie time to fully encapsulate Paul and Chani's relationship as the core events of Dune Messiah go on on the side making me skeptical he'll be able to make a faithful adaptation. Fingers crossed he can stay true to the book.

[@limrui6930]

CANT WAIT FOR PART 3 ALREADY

[@sunofslavia]

In the third film Alia will never be born, Stilgar will be renamed to Goofy and Chani will kill Paul for being a fascist dictator and become the top girl boss in the arrakommunist commune.

[@brandonhill2183]

My biggest issue was Chani as well. She seemed upset with him just for planning a war campaign against the Harkonnens.....but it was something they were doing for years. Then she seemed mad about the atomic weapons being used, thrn upset about going south, then upset about more things etc. ..she wasn't happy with anything, even way before he drank the water. Just, why? It was irritating

[@LuisSierra42]

I think she was only mad whenever she saw Paul becoming Lisan Al Gaib

[@brandonhill2183]

@LuisSierra42 there were a few times she was mad when he wasn't. Way before they traveled south. And it's out 9f character for her anyway

[@MsDragonbal776]

A deserved complaint considering that chani was never like that in the books. However, it seems the director is setting the scene for the third movie which delves into the reality of the consequences of Paul leaning into the religious fundamentalists

[@di3486]

So true. So annoying! And zero chemistry between those two.

[@JCDenton3]

​@@MsDragonbal776True, but there are other ways of doing that without radically altering Chani. What about Paul's "first wife", Jamis's widow he has to take care of per Fremen tradition? Include her and rewrite her if you really need someone to just blatantly say the message of the movie to the viewers so Chani's arc in this and the next film could be left intact.

[@thecarter8700]

I had this feeling and I’ve commented it before Zendaya’s characters always have a good part of brooding teen to them and that’s just not how we see Chani in the books

[@captnwinkle]

And she hurts my eyes

[@sirhc8927]

She plays an American tik toker. So annoying. Hate the movie character and the actress.

[@1984-i1w]

Souheila Yacoub > Zendaya@@captnwinkle

[@thecarter8700]

LMAOO cmon man @@captnwinkle

[@origami83]

@@captnwinkle That scowling stick figure taking out sardaukar without effort totally killed my immersion into to movie.

[@danzigrulze5211]

At least the one thing that I got from watching the movie is this. More people will be incentivized to read/listen to the novel to understand all the things that were altered or outright omitted from the movie. Hopefully a whole new generation will enjoy reading the novels as much as I did when I was younger.

[@jayjackson676]

Now that’s a good thought!!!!

[@AaronLaurentius]

Exactly. Im one of those folks. If anything the complex plot showcased in the movies and the amazing universe, are causing me to research and read the books. Truly is one of those movies that incentivizes you to look into the source material more!

[@aritovi]

This trilogy will put Dune franchise on the same level as Game of Thrones. Not as Star Wars level, because that one aims to a younger audience. But still, Dune is here to stay strong. And Villeneuve's movies have the most important role on that change.

[@di3486]

Dune is much more complex than any other sci fi novel ever. Most people are too basic minded for that.

[@underskillednunderpaid]

23 now, will be reading the books after watching the second movie. I had actually just watched the first one the day before and then went to watch the second the next day. Glad I did, dune is awesome

[@pHaZe017]

Spot on review! Would like to have seen more fight scenes between Freman and Sardaukar simply as a pay off for the whole set up in part 1 with all the effort Leto, Thufir and Duncan went to, to gain Freman support. Not to mention, im a bit disappointed they didnt include thufir at all in part 2. Was at least hoping he would have made an appearance during the feyd's fight against the remaining atreides in the coliseum where the Lt wasnt drugged.

[@howmanybeansmakefive]

I had massive issues with the factionalization of the Fremen/Chani. Theoretically I like the idea of adding complexity to Fremen belief/culture, I just don't think this was done well, and DV maybe even made it worse. Herbert's inspiration of the Fremen directly came from Ibn Khaldun, and his idea of 'Asabiyyah (group feeling/solidarity) is key here, but DV's (shallow) factionalization cuts against a core theme/inspiration of the Fremen's longer arc ('asabiyyah/unity being forged in a harsh environment, which allows them to usurp, but which is then lost as they achieve power/cosmopolitanism). The very simplistic/binary split of North vs. South = Enlightened Atheists vs 'Fundamentalists' felt extremely shallow and surface level of how splits in belief and culture actually manifest in such a tightly-knit community/culture, and totally misses what's interesting in the middle (like Chani). The split's artificiality also divorces the Fremen culture from FH's themes of how ideology/'assabiyah is rooted in ecological-sociological reality. I mainly just didn't like the cop-out of labelling all southerners as 'fundamentalists,' and the term just seems out of place in the way that term was used/applied to the Fremen. Making Stilgar/southern 'fundamentalists' out to be these gullible irrational fools completely negates the complexity of how deep culture/belief can capture your faculties and actions, influence eventualities, and misses the ways it can be wrestled with within the cultural context. It also trivializes the ecological/survival/autonomy impetus of Fremen belief collapsing it into purely ideological fundamentalism. In a way DV's approach is worse than just leaving all the Fremen as 'believers'. I see what DV was trying to do, but adding the skeptic Northerners (an obvious modern/American insert) ends up reinforcing/flattening the stereotype of the gullible native religious fool rather than nuancing it. DV seems to have brought a very modern/christian sensibility to belief, as opposed to what I imagine the Fremen (muslim/bedouin/Ibn Khaldun-inspired) belief/culture to be like and how FH understood it. (I also say this as someone who has left Islam/is critical of religious culture, and would very much appreciate a more nuanced depiction of belief and the unknowable which I think FH was also aware of). Making Chani a perfectly enlightened skeptic, without seeing how that would impact her perception by/of the Fremen society and relationship to Paul, didn't seem to be thought through properly and misses what makes her interesting as a character and her senses of duty (to the planet, culture, people, paul etc.). Chani storming off at the end also seemed to gloss over this, and Chani/a whole faction knowing about the Bene Gesserit plan of religious manipulation seems like a massive change which I'm not confident was properly thought through. Regarding the film as a whole, while very beautiful/successful most of the time, there were also a lot of times where the movie began to feel a bit hollow/stifled by DV's style/editing and his stated aversion to dialogue. I also felt the architecture could have been a lot more ornate in Kaitan/the throne, and scenes like the armies outside with the flags seemed overly minimalistic/stylized to me, and despite the length a lot of the bigger moments felt very rushed. I also wish there was more of Irulan/Shaddam/Kaitan/Guild/CHOAM. Overall though I enjoyed it for what it was and I'm glad it exists, but the changes to the religious/political themes and simplifications of the political machinations (and lack of Guild/CHOAM) were disappointing. I'm mainly worried that DV is missing how that changes the themes/arcs, and if he has the ability/had the foresight of how to redo Messiah/P3. But I'll suspend my final judgment for when Part 3 comes out

[@raccoons_stole_my_account]

>fundamentalists Yep, the use of the word had me completely taken out of the movie. It's an incredibly flat and carefully non-offensive thing, just don't be fundamentalist, faith is ok, all is well etc. I was surprised a movie with such topics was even made and now it's clear why it was - the main point of the books is almost completely absent.

[@ragingtomato04]

One of my biggest irks about the movie is the portayal of the fremen as a whole, they seem so dumb only following paul because of what's written. When in the book, they follow paul not only because of the prophecy but also because he is the strongest (strongest leads), he teaches them the weirding way, the wisest of the wise, listen to him and honor him in the Council. Literally all that isn't present in the movie. No one even call him out in a duel, except for jamis. So when he said in the movie "no one here can stand against me" appears more as boast rather than stating a fact. In the book paul said "I say this as fact, not meaning it as boast or challenge: there isn’t a man here, Stilgar included, who could stand against me in single combat. This is Stilgar’s own admission. He knows it, so do you all" so he really is the real deal in the book. The short 9 months of him being with the fremen doesn't help either. 9months and you already united the fremen to a holy war?

[@dreadpiratemikey6400]

After some thought, Chani is just really poorly written. To flip Chani from Paul's biggest supporter to his biggest skeptic just doesn't work and will be the film's biggest issue in the long term.

[@valecrassus7835]

It gives me relief that you enjoyed it, as I know you'd be among the harshest critics (much as I am toward movies in general). I also heard a favorable report from Chris Gore, and he's a great critic when it comes to geek esoterica.

[@NerdCookies]

I definitely enjoyed it as an entertaining sci-fi movie after having to detach my lore brain from it. ;)

[@valecrassus7835]

Honestly, I think that's the best we can ever realistically hope for. Even generally speaking, adaptations are rarely as good as the source...and something as far-flung and epic as Dune, if anyone ever even attempts it, 90% of the time it's a Golan-Globus level effort at best.

[@RodneyGraves]

@@NerdCookies That (detaching lore brain) can be hard. More once we have seen it and grokked it in fullness, we'll be sure to get back to you.

[@RobertJacobs-f5q]

I agree with everything you said! Great movie but it miss some of the deeper themes of the books. Especially the extreme magnitude and dependence on spice and why.( definitely missing)And the arrangement of Paul never having children with the princesses. Over all I love the move and will definitely will see it again.

[@Ramzblood]

​@@valecrassus7835 it could be done in a really long series. But the focus should begin on the plights of the lower classes and juxtaposed against the politics of the ruling classes. With spice addiction being the balance between them both. No rendition I've ever seen has dealt with the lethality of spice addiction and all of its effects on the empire. From this unseen struggle, a good screen writer could indeed paint and intense vista of a Star Wars like epic. The audience would understand the reasoning for such high stakes manipulation such as the Bene Gesderit breeding programs, the Guilds navigation systems, the Emperor's development of a fanatic legion of elite killers who control everything. And the need to actually control the Fremen with religion. It's all about the "unseen" enemy. The Great Worm of the desert and his spice addiction. I mean the Worm eventually merges with the Savior and becomes a God who rules for thousands of years. If a director focused on the nuance of spice and all of its subtle effects on the Empire, we'd really see what Frank Herbert meant by comparing Dune to the OPEC power structures of the middle east. It could be so epic if a director really focused on the true antagonist of this saga: the god damn spiiiiiiice..sssss

[@dreadpiratemikey6400]

In the books, Paul because famous, wealthy, and powerful because of knife dueling. I don't understand why this idea is so offensive to Hollywood. The Fremen would never follow someone because of great speeches, they would follow because of actions.

[@azimuthclark462]

Chani/ Zendaya was my biggest issue. I don't understand why Zendaya was cast as Chani. When I think about the books, I dont see her as Chani. She had resting b1tch face the whole movie. Ok, it's not book Chani, I get that, but Zendaya doesn't have the acting ability to be a main character in this movie. Book Chani is interesting. You can tell Paul and her are in love. I didn't feel that. Chani scenes left me feeling flat. The movie made me feel like Paul was just using her.

[@eaglesclaws8]

chanis skepticism makes no sense. paul called her by her name when they first met. no one told him her name...they needed to put that into another character...

[@bombsawaylemay770]

Your assessment is spot on, as usual. I felt like DV was trying to not cast a 3 year old Alia abomination in the movie, but that cut the time gap between the two parts from 3 years down to less than 9 months. Problem is that doesn't give enough time for Paul and Chani to bond and have Leto II the Elder and his subsequent death in the movie. His death created an unbreakable bond between the two and really accelerated Paul's transformation into a ruthless leader. Instead Chani is turned into an angry ex-girlfriend at the end of the movie, which was a disappointment. Other than that major change, it was a good movie. Keep up your hard work!

[@MomoAfterDark]

I hate what they did to Chani's character. That wasn't Chani that was Chandaya. I was afraid of this when they casted her in the first movie.

[@azimuthclark462]

Chandaya was the worst. Why did they cast her? Don't get me wrong she the perfect angry girl boss. That's not Chani in my mind.

[@Nineteen1900Hundred]

@@azimuthclark462The only reason they cast her is because she’s famous, and they felt a need to cast really current, “hot”, popular young celebrities for marketing purposes. Unfortunately that’s just how Hollywood operates.

[@AWalkingHat]

@@Nineteen1900HundredThat is also my feeling about the cast in general. Very disappointed. And so disappointed about Alia that I won't bother about this second part.

[@koko40800]

I understand why they did it. Conflict is critically important in a film...they say it's important in all fiction, but imo it's much more important to have strong conflict in a film, than in a book...and Chani is the only major character surrounding Paul who could be conflicted...every other one (Jessica, Stilgar, Gurney) either had an agenda to promote Paul, or were firmly on his side

[@MomoAfterDark]

@@koko40800 wtf are you talking about? They cut out conflict from the actual book to put this in. No mentats, no spacing guild, no Gurney attempt to kill Jessica. They downplayed the seriousness of needing to kill a man in ritual combat to take leadership. That would be a huge conflict between Stilgar, Paul and the Fedaykin but they skipped that. There’s plenty of drama and conflict in the source material to make this excuse.

[@di3486]

I left the theater conflicted. The first film left me so incredibly excited to revisit as much Dune lore as possible and I have watched it dozens of times. This one, was great visually but I have this weird feeling of something missing. Many parts were rushed, so rushed I forgot already half of the movie.

[@skepticalsmurf]

Dune Part Two(B+)the special effects were spectacular but is weird of me to admit that overall l enjoyed Part One a tad more? it’s a great film in its particular genre but l expected more(no Spacing Guild or Mentats and the Beast’s demise was kinda of a disappointment)l did enjoy the gradual character changes of both Paul and Jessica due to the ingestion of The Water of Life 🤔

[@di3486]

@@skepticalsmurf Agreed. Dune really needs to be adapted in a series.

[@brandond2005]

Wild that the combined run time of part I and II is less than the mini-series, which did pack so much of the book into it as well as be super faithful to it. I saw the movie Sunday night in the fan premiere and have watched at least 10 or so reviews, this is the first one to point out issues with the film, many of which I definitely share.

[@TheNinjaMarmot]

I think its a failure if you cut important scenes from the book and add scenes that are not important and not in the book. I was going to watch the movie this weekend. But more and more reviews are coming out that highlight this. How can this be a masterpiece if its not even a great adaption?

[@stephengrant4841]

This happens all the time with adaptations and its awful. Wheel of Time, anybody?

[@dasmysteryman12]

You can consider the movie element and adaptation elements as two separate aspects. Some movies are great despite not being accurate adaptations.

[@xristosrizos8406]

Because a movie works completely different to a book.

[@SirAdamantine]

As a fan of all things Dune for over 30 years, your knowledge never fails to amaze. Impressive!

[@coltharpc]

Paul married Princess Irulan to legitimize his imperial rule amongst the Landsraad as well as throwing a bone to the still powerful Corrino family. Paul would be seen marrying within the Corrino family and obtaining their CHOAM shares as Princess Irulan's dowry. Shaddam IV's abdication to Paul could be played as Paul was a better man to rule the empire instead Shaddam IV. The Spacing Guild and the Bene Gesserit would not protest the abdication since the spice would still flow (Spacing Guild) and they would have some perceived measure of control through Paul's mother (Bene Gesserit). The other houses would fall into line to keep their status quo and allow House Harkonnen to fall due to Paul's victory in their kanly war. Everyone would have a little of deniability and turn a blind eye of past events. Paul's successful coup d'etat against current imperial rule was very precarious, setting a horrible precedent of further power struggles within the empire regardless of Paul's control over the addictive spice melange. Paul won only one battle on one planet while the rest of universe could have easily overturned his victory through great sacrifice, either through isolation or destruction. Was it any surprise Paul nor his son leave Dune for the rest of their lives? Paul's Freemen, who performed holy war for their prophet, could have easily been defeated by the rest of the empire's vastness. However the other houses & powers wanted to keep some semblance to their status quo instead of destroying it all, allowing to continue and acknowledging Paul's rule.

[@garrettharriman6333]

The Landsraad not accepting Paul's ascension to the throne threw me for a bit. I think the reason they changed that was to justify the Fremen Holy War.

[@EnoughRhetoric]

You nailed the issues with film. Though I was ok with Paul killing the Baron given the other changes. But every other point you made was spot on. My personal take. I loved it as an extremely well made fan fiction that hit artistic highs. But I came away knowing that only a 500 million dollar tv series version could even begin to properly capture Frank Herbert’s Dune. This was Denis Villeneuve’s Dune.

[@XieRH1988]

Critiques about how a character portrayed in the film is handled differently from the source material always remind me of that Harry Potter Dumbledore meme: the one where in the book Dumbledore "asked calmly" but in the movie portrayal he was angry and agitated and the polar opposite of "calm".

[@Nineteen1900Hundred]

I think partly that meme is because the Goblet of Fire movie is totally crap.

[@Zerradable]

Sure, your example is totally comparable to the awful acting and story arch of Chani.

[@matthewstromberg8272]

This review crystallizes is my exact opinion on the movie in a way that I was struggling to vocalize after seeing it.

[@dresdyn100]

Disappointing to hear that Fenring didn't appear. When he wasn't mentioned in any cast lists I was hoping Villeneuve was being hyper-meta and reminding us that Fenring was a near miss Kwistatz Haderach and as such couldn't be perceived by Paul's prescience post-spice agony. I did have some concerns after the trailer with Chani decrying Paul's prophetic authenticity and I'm disappointed those concerns are borne out with the way she's been portrayed in the film. Despite the lore cracking I'm still looking forward seeing it. For all their campiness and obvious budgetary constraints it sounds like the Syfy/Sci-Fi mini-series' are going to remain my go-to when recommending which to watch with regards to lore. Like you Nerd Cookies, hopefully it will lead people further into the Dune universe with the books.

[@RodneyGraves]

Fenring's absence leaves a continuity hole to be plugged later as he was Paul-Muad'Dib's first indication that there were people invisible to his prescience.

[@danielhavens8819]

The first song Gurney sings in the book is about how to pick up girls from different planets, so I think it's pretty unfair to call his song in the movie a "troll" or to make it out like the director wasn't being respectful. I could totally see Gurney singing about piss in his stillsuit, plus the cynical nature of the song emphasizes how he feels lost and bitter after the fall of his house. It would have been nice to have him play a more meaningful or somber song in addition to that since he's a poetic man, not just a bitter one. But they really *cannot* include every single little thing we'd all like to see, even if the movies are longer than the mini series. That's not hubris or disrespect on the part of the director and I think it's unkind to imply otherwise when these films have done more to stay true to the source material than literally any other adaptation I could possibly think of.

[@lunatynaty]

Also to remember almost anybody have seen the mini series compared to the movies. DV said in some interview that he had to make sure the movie would work for people who didn't read the book also for people who didn't watch the first movie. It's was very very challenging task to pull through and I think he did it marvelously.

[@AWalkingHat]

@@lunatynatyI went to see the first Dune with a friend who was completely unfamiliar with the Dune universe. She came out asking if there was some background story to all this and felt there was missing information to "get" it. I agree.

[@koko40800]

That's right Gurney wasn't always philosophical or poetic, he also sung some 'bawdy' ballads...so I think that scene was a nod to that

[@jorgeabraham3414]

Totally agree. I felt disappointed by this review, I know that's dumb but I mean... can these guys pause being militant fanatics of the books and enjoy the tremendous achievement this film is... jee...is like "well, they did not mention CHOAM like at all, and they did not call the Landsraad like that, that was kind of a let down to me"... cmon

[@carolynallisee2463]

I was wondering how they would deal with the Baron's death since it was obvious that Alia would have no physical presence in the film. And, to be honest, having Paul dispatch him really doesn't sit right, not when the entire scene between Alia, the Emperor and the Baron showcases not only Alia's pre-born strangeness, but the fact no-one around her, especially the Baron, can comprehend just how dangerous she really is.

[@XieRH1988]

If there is a Part 3, there will be plenty of chances to show how dangerous Alia is. I think this movie's runtime budget was already stretched too much, entire cast members like Thufir didn't even make the cut.

[@eamonnholland5343]

It's also key for Alia's character arc that she kill the Baron, as it gives her character tragic irony, that she succumbs to the Baron's influence in subsequent books.

[@NameNotAChannel]

It would also fit more for a Bene Gesserit reverend mother, like Alia, to deliver the line "you die as an animal", as he was running away in fear, unlike Paul who passed the pain box test... (even the suggested change to make it Jessica, would have been superior to Paul.)

[@koko40800]

I thought Villeneuve was giving it a Shakespearian touch there...having Paul kill the Baron ("Grandfather") on the steps of the throne, as he desperately grasps to touch it just once

[@gordonfreeman-g5w]

@@eamonnholland5343 EXACTLY.

[@darthlaurel]

I think I remember talking with my dad about this book in the 70s. It wasn't my favorite sci fi but he was a big sci fi buff and bought me books all the time, or got them from the library for me. Thanks for the review and the memories.

[@samokuma9596]

The fact that i had exactly the same impressions about Chani without having read the Book shows that this change IS the major weak point of the movie. I add that the weak acting capabilities of Zendaya didn't help in portraying the dual character she's supposed to play.

[@kingssman2]

I'm happy to hear that they kept the message, the importance, and the spirit of the books when adapting the story. Something that some adaptations overlook by insisting on re-creating the smaller details. The changes can be disappointing, but at least they tried to keep the larger scale and overall message intact.

[@jamescurrie7897]

Zendaya did her best but having her play Chani was always fitting a square in a round hole. Ironically Timothee has more chemistry with Irulan (Pugh)….I almost wonder if they shouldn’t have cast Pugh for Chani….

[@captnwinkle]

She can't act and they could have gotten someone more decent looking

[@MartinRiggs1820]

@@captnwinkle 100% Agreed

[@mattmanw54301]

My non spoiler thoughts. There were deviations. But DV at least understands that Paul is not a hero. And the emotional weight of the choices that Paul makes brought me to tears in the theater. Dune 84 treats Paul as a hero. The victory at the end feels like the propaganda in Starship Troopers. Also, I appreciate how DV makes such a brutal film without crossing the PG13 barrier. We have a lot more of the horrors of war than I expected. Paul's transformation to Muadib is amazing. And his final line in the film was absolutely flawless. You can feel the scale of this universe. And how the whole thing is changed forever by one man. I was emotionally drained by this film. It's like if you ate nothing but fast food burgers for a year, and then suddenly you got to eat a Prime rib steak cooked to perfection. You would be shocked by the quality change.

[@RodneyGraves]

Side bar: Have you actually read *Starship Troopers* or are you comparing only to the abortion that VerHooven shat upon the screen?

[@laberlaber01]

The moment of Revelation is always a shock.

[@RodneyGraves]

@@laberlaber01 ??

[@Nineteen1900Hundred]

@@RodneyGravesIt’s a quote from Shadout Mapes.

[@RodneyGraves]

@@Nineteen1900Hundred Relevence in this discussion?

[@lunatynaty]

I feel the movie was done right for people who didn't read Dune understand the main themes of the book. I went to see the movie with my daughter and friends who didn't read the book and they absolutely loved it and understood the tragedy of Paul ascending to the throne. At the end of the movie people were happy and excited. It felt the same like going to watch LOTR in the cinema years ago.

[@DG-gx4sg]

As a film seperate to the source material, I'd rate Part 2 a 9.5/10. Some of the best blockbuster filmmaking we've seen in years. An absolute beast of a film and a win for modern cinema. The changes DV made such as removing toddler Alia definitely worked in his favour, as she wouldve been too comical to fit the grim and darkly serious tone of his film. The scene of Paul marching up the steps to halt his grandfather from reaching the throne, and then proceeding to slit his throat while Shaddam just watched from the side with apathy, was cold af and chilled me to the spine. Almost horror-inducing. I loved it in all its glory with Hans Zimmer's score playing in the background. As an adaptation of Frank Herbert's work, I'd give the film a 6/10. I'm just glad DV got Paul's character arc accurate for the most part. Because Paul is the primary carrier of Herbert's central theme/message of the dangers of charismatic leaders. And that alone is what makes up the 6 points I gave it. Because it won't ever be Dune unless this theme is carried across. Everything else in the film was too drastically different to what I envisioned when reading the original book. But that's okay. I don’t believe that a completely accurate adaptation of Dune is possible, nor will it ever be (unless someone tries adapting it into a long running anime series? Hmm)

[@travisbishop782]

I'm actually surprised we don't get more animated or anime adaptations of classic books.

[@gordonfreeman-g5w]

I don't know, the Baron killing scene was pretty anti-climactic to me. The Baron was an absolute menace in the first one and to seem him just get stabbed by Paul like that didn't make me feel anything. A child with an advanced mind isn't comical at all if done properly, and seeing a tiny weird little child stab and kill a giant floating hulking sphere of lard would've been way more mind-blowing. Would've been like a David vs Goliath multiplied by 100.

[@MsDragonbal776]

​@@gordonfreeman-g5wthe baron dies an anticlimactic death in the books as well. Gets killed by a toddler alia with a gom jabbar of all things

[@alexwelch3362]

@@gordonfreeman-g5wI think a lot of it has to do with the change of what Paul is trying to do. At first he is trying to enact revenge on house harkonnen but then grows grander with his idea of taking the throne. It was a great way to illustrate it in the movie.

[@bubukill1]

I just re-read Dune Messiah a few weeks ago. If I’am not mistaken, I think at one point it’s implied that not all houses accepted the legitimacy of Paul being the Emperor, and that some big houses were wiped out into oblivion by the Holy War against the fremen, and new small houses were born. I think it’s a good set up for Dune Messiah, so they can show more action packed scenes of the Holy War against the Fremen either by flashbacks or by doing time jumps throughout the film. I would’ve implied they might the 12 years time skip between Dune and Messiah (look how there is not a huge time skip in the movie as compared to the book ); but as we know Alia is being played by an adult and a well known actress it seems evident an over-a-decade time skip is to be expected. Messiah is a book that is not as action packed as one might expect except for one scene. I do see the ending as a good idea to justify even more the billions of life loss during the Holy War and the pettiness and tirany of Paul Atreides.

[@lore6803]

Tyrannical maybe. Petty I don't think so.

[@owen_trammell629]

The books make the point that there is no justification for the deaths in the Holy War. That said, a lot in this movie does seem to be intended to set up Dune 3, the Fremen split into sects with different religious beliefs, for example. That is in none of the books, but sets up the conspiracies in the third movie without needing to develop characters from Dune: Messiah.

[@jevinday]

I read Messiah a couple months ago (I'm reading the series for the first time) and it would be a very strange film. I'm not sure how it would really work, a lot of it is just people talking and everything that would look cool on a big screen is kind of just implied. I really liked it, I'm just not sure how it would work

[@bombsawaylemay770]

@@owen_trammell629 the Jihad was the beginning of the Golden Path that Paul refuses to fully follow. So basically the Jihad sets up his son, Leto II as future God Emperor.

[@bombsawaylemay770]

@@jevinday I agree, I think alot of the book would be altered to make a Messiah movie.

[@loganv0410]

Ripping away the environmental connection between spice and worms ruins one of Herbert's major underlying themes Ah well - "adaptations"

[@regis_red]

Given the way they treated Chani at the end I’m wondering how they can continue the story while staying faithful to the source material. She was my biggest gripe with the movie as well.

[@cecilofs]

At the end you could tell she was hesitating, and the movie intentionally cut out before she got on the worm. I am hoping she'll go back and the "wives vs concubines" speech will happen.

[@ahhabit46]

Well, since he completely changed the ending, which doesn’t make any sense to me, you might as well throw the other two books in the fire not even bother with them. I think it’s ridiculous that he changed the ending like that.

[@jorgeabraham3414]

these comments are ironic right?

[@nenyeo6090]

@@jorgeabraham3414no, they’re not. Dune part 2 is stupid storytelling.

[@NameNotAChannel]

Having seen it... the SyFy miniseries remains my favorite. The Lynch movie comes in second because it kept more faithful to the books, including the inner monologues that went into the deeper motivations and reasonings behind why people did things and knew things, even though they used the stupid weirding modules. The DV version is grander in a visual sense, but misses the mark in a great many places. The changes required to make "his vision" a reality don't seem worth it for the result. I despise some of the changes... far more than those in Lynch's.

[@CaptainFSU]

I got a very Michael Corleone vibes from Timothee, he starts a hero and ends as a terrifying tyrant.

[@jacobwaltz919]

I believe this is a good movie but as someone who is a fan stilgar of the books I am very disappointed in his depiction in the movie. Stilgar in my mind represented the best of the fremen. A Naib that was serious about their customs and laws and most of all a friend to Paul. I think the distinction made by Frank Herbert of Paul seeing a friend turned to be a follower was great writing of stilgars character. But to have him be comedic relief is unfortunate to say the least

[@GLASSB182]

Did anyone notice the design of the Baron's high box in the Harkonnen stadium scene looks to be inspired by 1920s deco architecture, particularly, the silent film "Metropolis"? And I honestly thought the Reverend Mother ritual was riveting. The low rock ceiling and tight space gave a claustrophobic atmosphere, and resembled a place where an animal might rest knowing it will die soon. The big takeover with worms and sandstorm was grand and fantastic, that made me happy to watch. But I also agree with Chani's portrayal, it being contradicting between her compassionate sentiment (from book) and her urbanized-toughness and skepticism (from where?). I would say Jessica was actually Part Two's main antagonist, and Fayd an obstacle. This Jessica resonates closely to the Jessica from Children of Dune, "once a witch always a witch." And yes, the reassurance quote from Jessica to Chani is unfortunate to omit, since it could assert Jessica's subtlety for craftiness and an opportunity to lastly show Chani's trust in Paul (and yet, perhaps an uncertainty).

[@Noveliss]

Absolutely loved it. As a novel reader, the changes were done in good taste and worked better on screen and better served the film narrative in my opinion. But I definitely still agree with you on a lot of what you said. I kind of liked how Chani was Paul's biggest non believer but I really wanted the moment between Chani and Jessica. Jessica was a concubine as well and they shared that experience. Not having it made the ending mad bitter. Also no Thufir, seems like the Mentat concept itself has been entirely dismissed in the films. I actually loved that Paul killed the Baron instead of Alia but I agree it felt rushed. I also didn't like that there was no time skip and Paul and Chani were without child. Paul losing his infant son in the Sietch bombing in the novel was a huge moment and I think him and Chani's relationship in the film needed it. But, nonetheless it was just an epic triumph. This is cinema. This is Sci-Fi.

[@Nineteen1900Hundred]

I think there are some Harkonnen Mentats in that war room, they are maintaining that hologram.

[@lunatynaty]

I liked how they implied not all Fremen are the same and not all of them are believers, it gave more realism to the Fremen as society since that's how many countries and cultures are in reality. I personally found Chani's character in the book very submissive and bit flat, not of my preference so I liked the way how they made her more opinionated in the movie -- just my personal taste. But I agree their son was a point missing but I guess they had to remove him in order to keep Alia in the womb

[@donragnar8430]

Bollocks

[@13alexthelion13]

I’m still torn with how they portrayed Chani’s character in this film. Personally she is my favourite character from the book so to see Zendaya’s portrayal was challenging. There are some great moments between her and Timothée’s Paul that felt real and made there romance work realistically for me but her rejection of him was heart aching and even funny at moments, particularly nearer the end in the temple. The scene with the proposal felt very bittersweet and didn’t have the same reassurance as the book did. I don’t know how they are going to work with Princess Irulan’s relationship with Chani and vide versa in Dune Messiah but I can see why the director did this to tie it in with Messiah. Thank you for your review! We had very similar opinions

[@christophersandidge8257]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but , while I will go see it, I hate the changes. To me, the definitive version of "Dune" is the Sci fy channel adaptation. Not perfect, but the closest I've seen to the book. Great video. Thanks.

[@DocHayes420]

Agreed. The only thing that held the mini series back was the budget. But it is the most definitive version we have gotten so far.

[@owenoone9445]

All good points. I imagined the ending would be stronger and closer to the source material. I just watched it, it was good overall but it could have been tighter. Better water of life ceremony, mentat exploration, etc.

[@SpiceAddicti0n]

This was a really solid review thanks for clarifying all of that. You took issue with things I noticed as well but couldn’t put into words and you also took issue with things I didn’t even notice at all! So it was a very insightful review, thanks! 👍

[@Danilochan]

I agree with this review. It was a great movie if you forget about the lore. The last part felt very rushed, and I was really hoping The Spacing Guild would be a part of it - Honestly I feel a bit dissapointet after watching the movie. ..

[@thecarter8700]

Yup I enjoyed it and it was very well acted But to me, Its just an enjoyable movie "based" off of a great book I read.

[@plo617]

Finally, a review from a book fan that isn't giving Denis a pass for butchering the story by sucking out all of the character from the book. And I've been making the comparisons between the runtime of the miniseries and Denis' films all week. This film is for sure a visual masterpiece. That said, it did not capture the book's characters and lore effectively. An adaptation always will have changes. Everyone who's seen even the best ones can accept that. However, Denis took liberties that only serves to diminish the lore and characters. I can appreciate this film for what it is. However, there's no one that can convince me that we couldn't have gotten a film this well cratfted that still stuck with the major plot points found in the book. Plot points that reverberate through the other books as well. Great review!

[@Johnlindsey289]

How do you feel about the jodowsky attempt, David lynch and miniseries?

[@jorgeabraham3414]

So now Denis is a "butcherer", you guys are incredible, it reminds a lot of the times in the forums when Peter Jackson's LOTR was released. It's quite ironic that Dune being the cautionary tale it is about fanaticism and has all these incredibly militant book fans that complain because the film is not 100% like the book.

[@garou12]

yeap seeing part 1 and how villeneuve happily omitted most of the character moments left me with 0 faith that he can do a proper adaptation of the book. Your honest review reinforces that esp w the stupid changes to jessica and chani. he totally fucked over the plot for messiah AND children w his choices wrt chani. thank you for your honesty. film threat's chris gore was way too effusive and ass kissing to make me believe that I should see this on opening weekend and will wait for the web release instead.

[@alexmartin3143]

Not just Gore everyone is lining up to praise DV. Quinn’s Ideas I’m pretty sure would marry Denis if he asked.

[@garou12]

@@alexmartin3143 yea i closed quinn's review half way coz i couldn't take the ass kissing anymore

[@ragingtomato04]

One of my biggest irks about the movie is the portayal of the fremen as a whole, they seem so dumb only following paul because of what's written. When in the book, they follow paul not only because of the prophecy but also because he is the strongest (strongest leads), he teaches them the weirding way, the wisest of the wise, listen to him and honor him in the Council. Literally all that isn't present in the movie. No one even call him out in a duel, except for jamis. So when he said in the movie "no one here can stand against me" appears more as boast rather than stating a fact. In the book paul said "I say this as fact, not meaning it as boast or challenge: there isn’t a man here, Stilgar included, who could stand against me in single combat. This is Stilgar’s own admission. He knows it, so do you all" so he really is the real deal in the book. The short 9 months of him being with the fremen doesn't help either. 9months and you already united the fremen to a holy war?

[@isaacxcii4289]

The Harkonnen are even worse (they look like Prometheus' Engineers crossed with the Borg) and the Corrinos are barely here (they aren't even named).

[@1984-i1w]

the gurney baliset scene was a slap in the face. also the reverend mother telling Irulan that she had intended to end the Atreides bloodline. so why the heck would she ask the baron in part one to spare Paul and Jessica, preserving the bloodline? we've already seen Chani at his side in part one during the holy war, so another weird turn there at the end. No Thuffir was annoying too. They missed a great opportunity to have Jessica kill the Baron under the influence of Alia, using a gom jabbar.

[@dondelapongo]

The most acid and honest review i found on YT, and also full of love and respect for both book and film. It almost makes me want to unsubscribe from your channel just to be able of subscribe to it again.

[@stevefrench7036]

Favourite scene was Paul riding the Maker for the first time. In the cinema you could really catch and feel the danger of it; the physics were on point, and it impacted me much more than in the book. Perhaps I recall the book scene poorly though but here it was delight. Little music, just sound thundering through my whole body, it felt like a cataclysmic event. And finally the music at the end, concluding it perfectly.

[@CaptainFSU]

The mini-series still stands has the first legitimate adaptation of Dune, I love what they did with Irulan in the mini-series.

[@DuneNewsNet]

Appreciate your balanced review! We loved the movie overall, however some of our team members also have (different) criticisms regarding certain decisions. So much to discuss in the coming months and we hope there will be openness in the community to explore both the merits and downsides.

[@NerdCookies]

Thank you and the DNN team for your continued excellent coverage of all things DUNE! I feel VERY positive and excited about the opportunity to discuss this film with fans in the coming months. Those conversations are a part of what can make the best fandoms so fun!

[@midwestoutdoorsman]

The biggest issue I had was Chani seemed almost mean and mean spirited which was ok to a point. if she would have become supportive after the council scene it would have all worked, Paul did awesome with that speech. Maybe he's creating a rift now, so that when Chani comes back she turns into Paul's faithful supporter and caring partner and fixes all those issues ending with the birth of the twins and making it more impactful, that could work. I also thought their romance was rushed from Chani's side especially since she so skeptical of him. Paul you can see because he's been dreaming about her. I wish Jessica would have had the talk about doing what is best for someone you love with Chani and was kinder and more motherly, and Paul paying that back at the end by offering marriage to the princess but then going to stand by Chani and looking at her to show everyone she was the one he loved, like in the mini series very powerful and respectful. I also liked the water of life mini series scenes better, it was a lot more impactful. The constant spice must flow theme was not in it at all and the connections to the worms etc. should have been explored. I also wish we would have more meditation scenes at night in the desert where the worms' recognize Paul as special while he struggles to figure out the visions, the golden path, and what he must do etc. I wish Feyd didn't fight drugged up guys instead of truly deadly opponents, showing how deadly and fearless he was and getting thrills off battle. He constantly trained and fought to keep himself sharp and he would have been more formidable I think. the killing of the women felt excessive for no reason to me and took me out of it. Gurney's fight could have been longer I thought as well and not so easy. I didn't mind the baby change but missed the Leto II and extra time in the desert stuff, loosing Leto to Rabban was a big moment and Paul and Chani being parents and that lost could have connected them more. I was mostly ok with Stilgar being a believer more, although he lost a bit of his seriousness and command presence. I also wish we would have gotten scenes with the spacing guild political stuff with the emperor and others. all is all was still very good 8-9/10.

[@PresterMike]

His stance of not having a directors cut is so stupid

[@hundredfireify]

The final product IS the director's cut. He repeatedly said so in lots of his interviews. That's how committed he is to the art of good story-telling.

[@glacialimpala]

There doesn't need to be a dir cut if he did everything he wanted with the official release. Mere existence of more footage doesn't mean it's better.

[@PresterMike]

@@hundredfireify I mean an extended cut. That’s what is meant by that and he knows it.

[@VishnuZutaten]

It's not stupid when you know what kind of filmmaker is DV. He doesn't care about particular scene, just the final product. Whatever's cut it's trash. But that's also why he is not the perfect person to adapt the dune. The franchise, the lore, the story should be first - along with those scenes that doesn't make the final cut.

[@abstractnonsense3253]

I understand Villeneuve having that position but he should make an exception for Dune because it's a book adaptation. It's one of the most notoriously difficult books to adapt. He created two great movies but those of us who have read the book know extended cuts could elevate this movie so much more.

[@quantum340]

"This union is entirely unnecessary given the rejection of Paul's claim to the throne" I understand your rationale, but I do disagree. His marriage to Irulan gives his claim a certain legitimacy, legal and social, that he otherwise would not have. By marrying Irulan he has a very strong claim (something which nobles always consider important), so that the resisting Great Houses are rebels against their lawful sovereign. Without the marriage, he would be an illegal usurper that the Great Houses are dutybound to resist. On the short term, and for the ones fighting, this does not seem like an important distinction, but on the larger scale this radically changes the dynamic of the overall war and the resulting diplomacy, with in the latter case rebellious Great Houses far more likely to bend the knee to Paul (especially when it becomes clear he can back up his solid legal claim with overwhelming military force).

[@JCDenton3]

I'm glad you and a few other's on Quinn's livestream said it, I really disliked Chani's rewrite and acting in this movie which I otherwise I really enjoyed and I've felt alone on that opinion online, so good to know I'm not! (btw that stream is how I discovered you, awesome contributions on your part!)

[@gosebadoh]

I disagree that Paul needing to marry princess Irulan despite the houses rejection is a plot hole. He can still use it for legitimaticy during and after the holy war.

[@saintelmo5590]

We are very much in agreement about Chandaya. She rides an awkward line between falling for Paul, and still trying to be a girlboss, in my own opinion. I'd say your analysis is spot on regarding the other points of the film, as well....especially the connection of the spice and the worms. The miniseries from 2000 covered many more details that Villeneuve's version did not.

[@jennabronson4704]

Just saw it in IMAX. It was good... Feyd was very well-played by Butler, and Chalemet was a much better actor than in Part 1. But I had some of the same complaints as with the first one, like choppy editing and misplaced score choices. Paul's spice trance scene was totally unceremonious and disappointing, and what they did with Chani at the very end was completely fucking weird. I hated the ending scene.

[@GlobalWave1]

I suppose it’s best to go into a movie not as a critic but open minded and let’s enjoy what’s good about a movie and not what’s bad. That mindset for me has always bad a great movie awesome! I never search for something bad but I’m Always praising what’s good. Never saw choppy editing nor misplaced score choices. I guess I’ll keep that in mind when I watch it in theaters a second time. As for chani I didn’t compare her to the books but I imagined her character coming from someone who slowly fell in love with Paul letting her heart open to him but also considering the constant tension of her feelings for him while considering what’s best for her people. A constant struggle

[@audio_tron]

I agree with your criticism, especially as it relates to Chani and Stilgar. Disappointed and saddened me. People giggled at Stilgar and I really couldn’t stomach Chani becoming some kind of super soldier and rebellious critic, storming off to ride a worm to end the film. The film succeeded in capturing the tragedy of Paul’s arc. The visuals, wardrobe, production design and general world building were exquisite. A rich meal for the senses. Those who haven’t read the books will enjoy it more than literate Dune fans, though I felt every ounce of gravity in the film. Some will explore the books, but in a video obsessed culture, I doubt readership will be significant. Hans Zimmer nailed the score.

[@beauhancock4922]

I was a little more than not happy with some of the departures from the book as it takes the meaning out of some of the events in Messiah. While Paul killing the baron was ok, I prefer the alia version. I also wish Denis would have made Rabbans death longer. Paul disarming the Sardukar captain before ordering them be slain would have been better. You are correct, Feyd wouldn't have survived the box test. No matter how much he likes pain. That box killed people stronger than Feyd. All the Chani stuff was a mess! I mean seriously, it's super important that Paul's kids be by her not Iralan. It has everything to do with both lineage and political motivations. So the ending left me feeling underwhelmingly bad and rushed out the end of the story. There is virtually no explaination of his new abilities as KH. Just that he can imagine a way in which they succeed... Ok... Either there will be part 3 or Messiah and that leave a lot to be desired. If not then this is only marginally better than the last 2 attempts.....

[@margaretwood152]

4:14. = °Channii° definitely felt like she was *_channelling_* ☹️ her inner ☹️ Frowny *FACE* ☹️ throughout.

[@Amateur_Ambiance]

The conclusion surprised me and I’m very interested in seeing HOW they move forward with the rest of the story.

[@johnwong8146]

I was sad Denis changed Alia's story as I think he could've pulled it off, especially with today's deep fake technology. Alia's origin and story was one of the weirder aspects of Dune that I really loved.

[@American_Outcast]

Chani was The Most Annoying part. She Acts So Sour & Her Nasty Face. Made me Confused About How Paul & Chani Had Any Physical intimate Attraction Towards one Another. I Didn't Understood How They were a Couple. It Felt like She Outright Hated Paul. The Special Effects However were Extremely Beautiful. & Dune: Part 2 is Mostly Good. Feyd-Rautha, Baron Harkonnen, Beast Rabban were Great Villains.

[@getthecats]

Paul didn't acknowledge how spice was made in the final courtroom scene (ie" just nuke the spice fields") because the method of spice production is a protected secret.

[@rodneylove8027]

Everything you mentioned was spot on. I felt that spice overall was simply glossed over. The 84 film did a much better job of underscoring its importance to the plot.

[@JSTmore]

I compare this movie to the Lord of the Rings Trilogy Was the trilogy an extremely faithful adaptation ? No, they made a lot of major changes, some understandable and some not , but they were great movies in their own right and remained true to what the og story is about The same thing with this movie Some changes were good some were not but overall i feel it was a great love letter to book and gave us a legitimately great movie

[@mathewsandford3796]

As a longstanding fan of the book, I agree with most of your observations and contrasts/comparisons with the film. However, I do think that Jessica's character transformation post water-of-life made sense as depicted in the film. The weight of the composite identity of the sisterhood overshadows her own self, swaying the balance away from biological mother toward Reverend Mother (and with that, a stronger bias towards the goals of the sisterhood). I think you could easily justify the character shift and the portrayal. I promised myself not to get too obsessive about lore as long as the narrative made sense and the philosophy of the book remained intact. In some respects, I think the underlying message of the text was stronger here - perhaps benefiting from a knowledge of what is to come in Messiah. However, I couldn't help but to feel that the want to convey a more immersive and impactful depiction of war left part two feeling a little more 'one note' than part one. And that the time invested in those aspects meant sacrificing some of my favorite moments from the book - particularly in part one. I enjoyed the tonal shifts in part one. I enjoyed the creative spectacle of part two. Two very different films - difficult to reconcile into a whole, despite their shared vocabulary. But great, nonetheless.

[@DarkLadyAthena1]

First off, great review. I am a big fan of the books too. It remains one of the best science fiction works of all time. Whenever I re-read the books, it feels like I am reading a piece of historical fiction more than science fiction (especially Dune Messiah). I really enjoyed this film and didn't mind much of the changes. I could see where this Chani was coming from and it still made sense for Paul to marry Irulan despite the other houses' reluctance to recognize him. It is reminiscent of some historical rulers who took a similar approach, notably Henry VII of England. Despite him marrying Elizabeth of York, many still didn't see him as the rightful ruler (and he himself went between justifying his throne because by right of conquest, blood or his union), yet he focused on the importance of his union. With Irulan, we all know she will get the short end of the stick in regards with how Paul will treat her. I would have liked to see more of Feyd. He had a lot of potential and he needed more screen time. So did the Baron. Alia did need to make another appearance in another vision or in Other Memory. When Paul sees her (as an adult), I think she should have said something more. And while I did like Paul killing the Baron, it would have been better if Jessica, under the influence of Alia, said something. That way, it is not only Paul, but all his descendants ending him. All in all though, I loved it. And I can't wait to see Dune Messiah adapted. That has always been my favorite of Frank Herbert's books -not just his Dune saga but out of all his books in general.

[@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954]

This review is pretty much spot on in my eyes - Dune Part 2 is an absolutely beautiful movie and has some downright hypnotic sequences viewed in isolation. The Geidi Prime segment in particular is absolutely visually fantastic. As a work of sci fi cinema, it is excellent on its own merits... but it simply is not as good an adaptation of Frank Herbert's Dune as it could - dare I say should - have been because of the many unnecessary changes and liberties that were taken with the plot, world building and characterisation. Those changes cause issues even in this movie, but the real concern I have is for any further movies we might get in this series. I see no way a faithful adaptation of Dune Messiah or Children of Dune can be made as things stand at the end of Dune Part 2, at least not without a massive cop out with regard to how characters like Chani have been characterised in this movie, and that is going to be a huge problem for any hypothetical 'Dune Part 3'. On the subject of Chani, I have seen some other commenters here describe the character in this movie as 'Chan-deya', and unfortunately I think that criticism is fair. The character simply doesn't feel as though she fits at all within the Fremen culture, coming across much more as the sort of arrogant, snarky southern Californian teenager Zendaya so often plays - in short, we are seeing Zendaya play her version of Mary Jane from the recent Spiderman movies in a Still Suit and little else. That is a big problem, only further compounded by mystifying alterations such as the whole cloth addition from the movie of the idea that the Northern Fremen have contempt for religion and it is the Southern Fremen - that Chan-deya and her fellow Northerners hold in obvious contempt - that are all a bunch of what essentially amount to religiously fanatical desert hicks. The way that Stilgar is reduced to a comedy relief figure with his beliefs played for laughs just makes a bad situation worse, especially since he is all but unrecognisable from his depiction in Dune Part 1, let alone the source material. The way Chani refuses to accept the marriage alliance between Paul and Irulan despite living all her life surely aware that the Imperium is an explicitly neo-feudal society serves only to stack up even more issues for any future adaptation of Dune Messiah in this movie series. It is frustrating - Dune Part 2 is a fine sci fi movie that was only held back from greatness as an adaptation because of wholly unnecessary changes (and the poor casting choice of Zendaya). It didn't need to be this way. Still, if you can turn off your book reader brain for a bit shy of three hours you can at least enjoy the spectacle, and the far more book accurate sci fi miniseries adaptation, and the also solid follow up Children of Dune, (for all their limited budget and wonky early 2000's CGI) are still there for when you want a genuinely faithful adaptation of Frank Herbert's vision, and of course the source material is widely available and justly viewed as a classic.

[@jforden78]

As someone who has read all the books including prequels and added sequels, the alteration in the relationship between Paul and Chani pulled me completely out of the movie. I absolutely loved the first one, and accepted the lack of Spacing Guild and Mentats. I was ready to love the Part 2, but spent the latter half of the movie unable to focus because each change just made it harder and harder for me comprehend how they would adapt Dune Messiah without significant changes. When Paul said don't worry Chani will come around, I expected that to happen before the credits rolled. I've since watched some reactions of Part 2 on YT and come to appreciate it more, but my disappointment in this change remains.

[@alexdimopoulos769]

Thank you for this. You really helped with articulating all those criticisms that, as book fan, realized I completely agree with. For some of these, I plainly consider them "mistakes" by Denis, as I don't think the movie's runtime would be an obstacle to fixing them. I wonder whether the changes will spiral into a messier Dune: Messiah adaptation, or whether he will get it back on track. Maybe, considering he says that Dune: Messiah will be made with the promise that it will have an identity of its own, he will lean more into multi-dimensional ideas and won't force it to be so streamlined. THAT BEING SAID, as soon as the movie ended, and especially after this review, I feel ready and ok to just collect these criticisms in a box, save it in a closet, and just truly respect and appreciate this productional masterpiece! P.S.: I have a theory for the future of the Franchise under Villeneuve. The fact that he omitted Alia's birth, her confrontation with the Baron, and Chani apparently abandoning Paul, leaves me room to believe that he always planned to stop at Dune: Messiah. It is a very ambiguous thought, because there are major implications for Dune: Messiah too, but I see it possible that Chani won't give birth to Leto II and Ghanima... He never planned to continue with Children of Dune, because there would be no "Children of Dune" (+ no Baron-Alia possession). I HOPE I'm entirely wrong, and please tell me what you think

[@cecilofs]

Sadly I can see that too. Part 3 would be Paul destroying his legacy and leaving Alia in charge and everyone lives happily ever after. Or worse: killing Alia and Jessica then walking off into the desert - completely destroying the Atreides line to prevent them further affecting the galaxy. It would totally suck for lovers of the rest of the books, but would wrap DV's version up with a nice bow. After all if you are following the original books it is extremely awkward to stop at the end of Messiah. Then if you do Children its extremely awkward to not do God Emperor too.

[@owen_trammell629]

"The only way he knew how" is a sad thing to have to say. The changes he chose to make in both films, in particular the added scenes and altered character motivations, were unnecessary and, as your great video pointed out, may have caused more problems than they solved. You can't say they came from a lack of imagination, but they do demonstrate a lack of faith in those who have not read the book to follow the story or identify with the characters, a common problem in film adaptations. The increased attention to Bene Gesserit characters at the expense of others may also have something to do with trying to create interest in the upcoming Bene Gesserit TV series. "It is what it is."

[@julesjma]

I like that they made Chani a strong and identified warrior and not a submissive concubine. What person would not feel the gut punch of your first love asking for the hand of a stranger. These changes are for people who are not familiar with the book series. Which is most people. You and my best friend should talk. Sticklers for the actuality of the book. Considering...he did a BRILLIANT job. Agree on many aspects though.

[@michaelnorman4476]

You pretty much covered my likes and dislikes with the movie. The biggest one being Chani’s reaction toward Paul, and then not explaining what the relationship would actually be between Paul and Irulan. But I did overall enjoy it

[@ralphosn]

Great review, fully captures my disappointment of Part Two's Hollywoodification. Bravo for bringing it in such a respectful, structured way.

[@Johnlindsey289]

How do you feel about the jodowsky film, lynch film and miniseries?

[@ralphosn]

​@@Johnlindsey289 I haven't seen those. I learned to know Dune through Villeneuve's Part One, which I loved. Then I read the book. Part One resonated with me because it was 100% Villeneuve: minimal dialogue and imaginative visuals that mirrored the book's captivating mystique. While the characters in Part One were arguably somewhat underdeveloped, at least they retained their essence without complete rewriting to fit a mainstream modernist view. My concern with Part Two is not necessarily its lack of depth, but rather the filling of that void with uninteresting, empty, demystifying Hollywood clichés, in stark contrast to Part One.

[@Johnlindsey289]

@@ralphosn How do you feel about Peter Jackson's LOTR?

[@ralphosn]

I think Jackson effectively captured LOTR's epic scale and the moving interpersonal relationships among the characters, even exceeding the books' intensity and suspense in the first two movies.@@Johnlindsey289

[@ralphosn]

​@@Johnlindsey289 I think Jackson effectively captured LOTR's epic scale and the emotional relationships among the characters, even exceeding the book's intensity and suspense in the first two movies. I found the pacing and buildup better in the first two, while the third, although still very good, leaned more towards a generic action movie.

[@barmakkusha383]

Totally agree with your critique of the change in Chani’s role and her relationship with Paul and the way the movie ended so disjointed and so bitter.

[@wayofbumpyroads]

i loved the eerie nature of Alia communicating with Jessica, and it felt like there was a bit of foreshadowing in the abomination aspect of the pre-born in their interaction. i found it particularly haunting when Paul asks Jessica about his sister and how she says "she talks to me, paul." utterly beautiful and chilling at the same time. on the other hand, i could not get over the time compression of the movie and the fact that Alia was not born by the end. every time i try to review the movie for myself or others, that's the thing i cannot get past. while i missed the things cut from the book, it was easier to accept their absence since i've never believed Dune could be adequately adapted in anything less than a dozen hours. aside from that, i love your review of the movie and generally agree with your assesment of it's strengths. i really appreciate your general positivity about the adaptation, even though i personally feel differently. that said, it's absolutely one of the most visually striking and beautiful movies i've seen in recent years. that's it for me. love your work nerd cookies. keep it up!

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

Also, I think that the reason the mini-series feels like it explores more of the characters is due to the budgetary limitations. They couldn't do massive action scenes so they had no choice but use dialogue and characters. The Feyd assassinating Vladimir scene is very important and done very well in the mini-series, but it was absent from both film versions.

[@Mark-qd2ze]

I need a full movie of Gurney Halleck playing baliset.

[@AK-ms5zk]

It is disappointing it takes the character’s intentions down to the more baser Hollywood motivations and kind of smooths out the delicious complexities like getting rid of Alia and even count Fenring is important

[@thecarter8700]

Its just hard for book readers in general I feel we have vivid imaginations and have already set the world in our minds (Based on the book) So when they just come and change things, it genuinely makes it a different entity to us ... Like these changes in Chani are not compatible in my head with the book So I'll watch and enjoy, but this isnt "my" Dune

[@koko40800]

I can see why Count Fenring would be cut out of the screenplay though...he's not THAT important

[@AK-ms5zk]

@@koko40800 maybe, but I also miss/need the puppies and the golden lion throne and the juice of sapho and the weirdness to make it Dune and not Avatar or Damces with Wolves

[@RodneyGraves]

@@koko40800 He (and Paul's inability to presciently see him) are essential to the ongoing plot.

[@AK-ms5zk]

@@RodneyGraves true, also with count Fenrig being a failed quizatshaderach shows how cavalier and miscalculated the bene Jeserit actually are and are far from masterful

[@bobokin5815]

I was so disappointed with the handling of Stilgar when I left the theatre I couldn’t even explain to my friends why I was so disappointed. Stilgar is my favourite character from the Dune books and seeing him keep his believer traits but losing his friendship with paul just made me get angry at the movie to the point I almost didn’t like it. After a few hours of processing I agree the movie is very well made and the greatest adaptation yet but it unfortunately does not follow the source material too closely. Most of my favourite scenes from the book are not even in the movie and the scenes that I love that are in the movie seem to be way too quick to even have an impact on the audience. I love the scene where paul declares himself duke of arrakis but it was so quick that it almost felt like if you blinked you would miss half of it.

[@marknovak6498]

Chani acted like a woman in a city setting where life is easy and people have the time to rest and ramble. A woman of a tribal setting would not have such sensibilities. I guess the director decided the orgy scene would ... nevermind. It made no sense for a tribal setting under siege would be so divided. Stilgar was one-dimensional. Jessica would never throw up. Finally, they could have had alia with the two-year time jump where whenever you look away from her you see the mature woman speak.

[@legi0n47x]

I had all the same gripes. The Chani thing is by far the biggest. Paul not letting it be known that only she will have his children, which she had already done though I can see why they omitted their baby being in the movie. I forgot about Jessica's message to her, which you hit the nail on the head. Also, couldn't agree more on the lack of connection between the spice and the sandworms. It was such a power move in the book when he reveals the threat of the water of death and the guild navigators know he's serious. Total miss there, along with the missing characters. Personally, I did not care for how Alia was handled and instead used as a medium to make Jessica seem shifty. Would have prefered a child actor. Would have been worth it. I thought Paul got kicked around a bit too much in the final fight scene. Would have made sense if they would have had him get poisoned by Fayed's blade, but they didn't do that.

[@Unionleto]

I have been a fan of Dune for 35 years. I read, I played, I watched everything. I must admit that I was disappointed with part 2. First of all, in the first book, Paul was supposed to be a charismatic leader whom we all support. It is only in Messiah of Dune that the viewer questions the uncritical support for the leader. What was Herbert's main intention was for us to always look at politics and not take their word for it. In the second part, after the transformation, Paul became a fanatic detached from reality, which distanced the viewer from him. We should question our trust in him and only in the Messiah. We can guess Paul's dilemma from his facial expressions. His choices would lead to the death of his family members, which he knew destroyed him internally, but these choices were necessary to build the foundations for Leto II - the existence of the human race was at stake. The director didn't deliver this at all. If Lansrad did not accept Leto's rule, why the hell would Iluran cut his rule with an ax - this is a huge, illogical departure from the book. Unless they want to show in Messiah that Chani was right and she is wonderful and the wisest (communism). Chani was presented completely differently than in the book where she was a warm, loving person who believed in Paul. Sayyadina is neither pretty nor nice in the film. Constantly questioning what Paul is doing and her love is completely dependent on whether she likes what Paul does. A pain in the ass. It is clear that the director performed the tasks - Liet in the first part and Chania (communism) in the second. The flat, sexless attitude of Shaddam and his daughter. Paul came in and killed Baron and everyone is ok with it. Where is Thufir Hawat. The miniseries is definitely the best adaptation of Dune.

[@walksaselk40]

If anybody asks him why, Paul could literally say "because the plot demands it" and it would make sense

[@stevenkothenbeutel448]

I feel as if the portrayal of Chani was tainted with the current "woke" and "girl boss" phenomenon. Sad really... because these changes don't portray her prominence as in the books but fatally undermines the character who we all beloved as being strong and important in the Dune story. As for Jessica, I was disappointed to see her as roman mother of an emperor. Vicious and conspiring. Sad to see that changed from the books.

[@whylie74]

Thank you for your honesty Elaine, now I know villeneuve's hacked the story up as much as everybody else, I don't think I'll bother with it and stick to the book insted.

[@70briareos]

I think I understand why Chani was portrayed the way she was. She needed to be able to stay out of the messianic whirlwind that has surrounded Paul and see him not as the Lisan Al-Gaib or the Emperor of the Known universe, but as Paul, the boy she fell in love with. And Paul needs that. He needs Chani to be on equal footing with him and not just some fanatical follower. This is ultimately so the writers can create an unresolved plot point that now has to be resolved in the next movie (Dune Messiah), LOL!

[@pcuriel]

The Lady Jessica was not always speaking in her own voice. It sounded at times like Alia was speaking thru her.

[@maneotis4g63t]

I loved this movie but 100% agree with you about Paul and Chani's relationship