2024 Sorcerer Subclass Tier Ranking for D&D 5e

[@EvelynInColor]

I don't mean to get deep and crap but you guys have no idea how simple and enjoyable videos like this from you about D&D can impact people. I just got back from an out of state trip to pick up the pieces after my father passed on Thanksgiving. I'm pregnant and now he can't meet his grandson and I've discovered my mom has mild to moderate dementia. The crying, the anger, the questions, the laughter, but mostly anger over the last week has worn me and my family out. And now I'm home from the flight and trying to get back to normal with the help of my favorite nerds on KZbin. Bless you both, along with Kyle and the rest of the gang.

[@JamesRiley-fb3lg]

Sucks that you're going through, I know I'm a random stranger on KZbin, but shooting a prayer up for you.

[@Sirfinchyyy]

Wow, that is a lot to deal with all at once... I really hope things get better for you. Stay strong.

[@TsujiCross]

Whoa, that sure is quite a lot on your plate… sending prayers and strength 🙏

[@rcschmidt668]

Comfort and peace. 🙏

[@screwbigtechsanti-sciencem9438]

Anyone reading this should be very grateful for their lives if they are dealing with half of all that. I wish and know better times are coming for you. You are currently experiencing the low tides of life. Very low. Sooner or later the tides will turn. I guarantee it! 🙏

[@eggy_conch1876]

Dudes must have known I was having a bad day and dropped a tier ranking

[@StriderZessei]

I hope your day gets better! If not, I give you permission to eat a whole pie.

[@AndrewThoesen]

Could be worse, you could be a healthcare insurance CEO 😬

[@eggy_conch1876]

​@@AndrewThoesen😂😂😂

[@eggy_conch1876]

Thanks y'all 😊

[@StriderZessei]

​@@AndrewThoesenBRUH

[@williambowen8054]

Kelly: "How long have we known each other? *looks at watch*" Me immediately thinking that Kelly's watch is a calendar of friendship.

[@rcschmidt668]

Before watching: Interesting their nicknames were switched at the start. Kelly is much more the Wild Magic type, and Monty is more Clockwork. After watching: 😮 I see what they did there.

[@mattmartin326]

5:06 - Kelly's look communicates to the audience that we all took Monty's meaning further than Monty did, and he's right there with us.

[@TheRealStoryWeaver]

lovely, i missed that :D

[@rickrack4325]

That wink tho

[@chacepassmore6474]

That was so funny oml I missed that

[@dirkmagilicuddy5136]

😂😂😂 I'm dying here!

[@KevShaw808]

That wink sent me lol

[@Wrrohm]

It's worth mentioning for the Abbarant Mind that as a sorcerer turning spell slots into sorcery points doesn't cost an action. So even if you're out of sorcery points and only have three level 1 spell slots, you can convert them all for free and cast a subtle spell Hunger of Hadar. It makes your spellcasting so flexible.

[@JugglingAddict]

Very fun when a cleric in the middle of the townsquare is holding a sermon to cast a spell like bless on the attendies and now it looks like he is sacrificing them to the dark gods. 🤣🤣😅😁

[@jakewarman7277]

My thoughts exactly, they can essentially subtle cast and add an extra meta magic all their spell list spells right from level 3

[@4n3c]

Plus you can get around the "1 action spell" once per day by using the cartomancer feat.

[@jakewarman7277]

@@4n3c this depends on interpretation, most people I know who have read this use the conservative reading where it just lets you use an unprepared spell not cast it for free.

[@4n3c]

@@jakewarman7277 sure, but even if you have to invest the spell slot which I would not require since it should state that it requires a spell slot to cast it, but I see how reasonable people could disagree. However, it states clearly that what ever spell is stored in the card is cast as bonus action, meaning you could for example drop Black tentacles with your subclass feature and then throw a bonus action fireball on it. Admittedly the selection is limited but it is possible.

[@scottcody5878]

In a world where so many D&Dtubers all have video titles like “FIXING THIS” or “THIS IS BROKEN” or “WIZARDS OF THE COAST ARE THE VILLAINS IN TAKEN”…. You guys a bright rose colored light which makes me constantly excited to play D&D. Big applause for people that want to enjoy the game, and help everyone else enjoy it too. Keep at it boys! 🎉

[@jamesfoster9613]

It's so crazy how one minor change for clockwork soul dropped it from an S to a B, and simple improvements got Draconic and Wild Magic from Bs to A. 2024 PHB is really shifting things around!

[@jefferydavidson5347]

Wild magic was already an A on their previous rankings, it didn’t change much

[@jamesfoster9613]

@@jefferydavidson5347 aha I had forgotten that. thanks!

[@MrSeals1000]

​​@@jefferydavidson5347 It did come with a big caveat before though. Now those strings are cut and you don't need to rely on a DM to let your subclass be good.

[@relicmage]

My favorite use of Restore Balance is to remove disadvantage from our paladins stealth checks due to heavy armor.

[@Sirfinchyyy]

Good choice, toss in pass without trace and that paladin just might sneak around every so often.

[@adambielen8996]

I'd wish that I'd have thought of this because I have this same problem.

[@zzfrute]

Paladins, rogues and Barbarians love this feature, even if it is a little boring.

[@cameroncox2739]

That or removing the penalty for fighting blind when the warlock drops darkness over a melee fight.

[@VerdantOmen]

Can use it to make your barbarian tankier after they decided to hit harder, too...

[@relaxedfantasyreview]

@58:50 Kelly just settling in for Monty giving a TOP TIER existential dread speech. Love it 😁

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

"I'd never spend 5 sorcery pints, I'd rather wait for my ally to drop to 0 and get them back up" peak party dynamics.

[@joshua1201]

@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz I must.be weird as hell I hear a lot of people say this and I mostly play cleric. But from an rp side I could never justify seeing my allies knocked out over and over again. Ran clerics all the way up to 20 with this mentality and while it's less optimal it's completely do able. I know it's less optimized but my clerics always do they're best to keep allies above 0. Not saying your style is wrong (hell it's objectivly better) just I have a very hard time justifying it in game.

[@grantgarbour]

I think Wild is Easy S for most of Monty's reasons but also if someone in your party took the musician feat at level *one* you can get inspiration after every short or long rest which can be used to reroll Wild magic surges in the VERY off chance you get something negative

[@alexbryce5496]

Been loving your video series!! However, sad to note that both of your Sorcerer videos this week did not have captions :-( As a Deaf viewer, I depend on the captions (including auto captions) so losing out on your commentary is disappointing. Especially when Sorcerer is my favorite class and I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

[@Denothorm]

There might be issues with captions atm. This is the second channel today that I noticed captions were not done, and in the other the uploaded mentioned they were taking longer than usual to get on the video.

[@MissJodles]

Bumping the comment so they see it! Hopefully it’s sorted for you soon :)

[@Sirfinchyyy]

​@@MissJodles good idea,

[@alexbryce5496]

@@Denothormgood to know it’s not just this channel!! Hopefully the auto captions will be fixed soon! :)

[@sanaaa-v4411]

Bumping

[@NillusWrekar]

Whispers "Wall of Force is the best!"

[@katyprarie]

Monty during his PhD grad speech:

[@Sirfinchyyy]

It did basically negate some very dangerous enemies on several occasions... very few spells or abilities can do that.

[@TyranusRex721]

Sorcerer got some massive needed buffs. I think they, for the most part, can keep up with other full casters now. So happy to see Draconic get a massive buff too and finally feel like something usable.

[@JugglingAddict]

Dragonic are now a great choice for a (backwards compatibility) flying race fighter or paladin adding 2 weapon fighting and dual wielding to a sorcerer's shenanigans sounds like lots of fun. For a fighter like a battle master/dragonic sorcerer taking shadow touched to gain wrathful smite is like peak ''I want all of it''. 🤣🤣😅😆😁

[@koruzarius8071]

Don't think I've ever seen you guys debate the rankings this much. Love it!

[@JugglingAddict]

Draconic sorcerer dwarf with the tough feat ''haha fighter I have more hitpoints than you''.

[@MisterDiceGuy]

Nah that's just a Barbarian with spells.

[@benobrien7578]

@@MisterDiceGuy Which would be one of the most powerful classes in the game. Or like making a Paladin a full caster

[@MisterDiceGuy]

@@benobrien7578 Um probably even better because the AC boost from the subclass. Plus you are definitely building Con too.

[@danieljames6240]

Six levels of lore bard with a dip in warlock for sad charisma. I wrote it as a dwarf clan who shared a mountain with a dragon who had passed and now our clan protects his horse and resting place. He blesses our clan with magic hence the sorc. And I leave to collect more lore on other dragons. I received a message from my clan that someone raided our dragons tomb and stole from the horde. We mission out fight my bbg return the stolen items and his spirit appears to bless me with his patronage. Busted character with fun lore story.

[@danieljames6240]

Sorry not his horse his horde lmao

[@BenjaminSmith-xw8em]

Have played a Wild Magic Sorcerer with the new rules up to level 7. It is lot of fun, but the Wild Magic table itself isn't super powerful (though it definitely can be) a lot of the options aren't bad or good, but just inconsequential (though still fun). I will usually set up a wild magic surge by gaining advantage on initiative, then cast a spell on my first turn, getting to roll on the table. After that, you either need to set it up with a spell with an attack role (which isn't always the best play and irrelevant when you activate Sorcery Incarnate) or wait for a saving throw, which you can't control. I've found I don't roll on the table as often as I expected. Still, the dice manipulation is very solid and a good wild magic table roll has come in clutch several times. Would definitely recommend, especially with a human sorcerer or a party member with the musician feat, since heroic advantage allows you to reroll the d100.

[@tdnels8]

I do think one thing that the Dudes might have overlooked with the Clockwork Sorcerer is the Sorcerous Restoration feature that is the level 5 feature of the class paired with Bastion of Law. I am currently playing a Clockwork Sorcerer and I can spend 3-5 Sorcery Points to create the Ward that lasts until it is gone, then when Short Resting, you regain half your level in Sorcery Points. I definitely agree it is expensive and the possibility of rolling low is certainly there, but I do think that it is a very useful feature.

[@haukness]

Bastion of Law is worth using before a short rest when you will be using Sorcerous Restoration. I know it niche but its worth keeping in mind.

[@z3phyrus14]

And isn’t there a lack of expiration on the ward? Burn all your remaining SP before a rest and just get free damage reduction right?

[@NovelVanguard]

@@z3phyrus14I think so

[@adambielen8996]

@@z3phyrus14 It expires on a long rest.

[@seanw8643]

My first ever 1-20 campaign I was a dragonic sorc with a temp cleric dip and I absolutely loved it. We are about to start a new campaign and I plan on doing sorc again but this time chaos all the way!!!!

[@IMXLegedaryBard]

One of the biggest strengths ive seen playing a Draconic soul is combining Chromatic Orb, with your element type annnnnnnd giving all you attacks with advantage using innate sorcery. Those two combos, along with empower incase you rolled bad for damage, is just strong as heck

[@Tancred672]

One thing you guys didn't mention around the Bastion of Law ability is that it lasts until you finish a Long Rest, also the ability says when the creature takes damage it can expend them. So what that means is you know what the damage is before rolling so you can estimate whether the roll is worth it. I still think it's not a great use of Sorcery points but it is a little more flexible than it felt like you were crediting.

[@JugglingAddict]

It would be built dependent. If I'm a tough feat dwarf 6 lvls world tree barbarian, 3 lvls celestial warlock with gift of the ever-living ones also taking Armor of Agathys and the rest in clockwork soul. Using aid, Armor of Agathys and bastion of law before I rage is going to make the AoA temp hp damage dealing mechanic last a good bit longer. As for why celestial, I like getting max hp back from a cure wounds. This is an amazing 3-way combo on a gestalt campaign where you are allowed to be 3 or more classes at once. With warlock and sorcerer both adding so much in out of combat RP and utility. Also world tree and celestial write the theme for itself, having the world tree be your patron and it's manifesting it also through your rage (rage healing is super cool) and the tree has bestowed onto you special powers to bring order to the world. There all 3 classes with their respective RP tied to 1 thing.

[@jonathanstern5537]

I love these, I just wish they had 6 subclasses per class, and one to two of those should be completely new. Also, I would have wanted them to include the Artificer. Artificer: Alchemist, Armorer, Artillerist, Grenadier, and another new subclass. Barbarian: Beast, Berserker, Wild Heart, Wild Magic, World Tree, Zealot. Bard: Dance, Creation, Eloquence, Glamour, Lore, Valor. Cleric: Grave, Life, Light, Travel, Trickery, War. Druid: Land, Moon, Sea, Shepard, Spores, Stars Fighter: Battle Master, Champion, Eldritch Knight, Green Knight, Psi-Warrior, Rune Knight. Monk: Ascendant Dragon, Balance, Mercy, Shadow, The Elements, The Open Hand. Paladin: Devotion, Glory, Redemption, Silence, The Ancients, Vengeance. Ranger: Beastmaster, Drake Warden, Fey Wanderer, Gloom Stalker, Hunter, Pack Leader Rogue: Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Sapper, Soul Knife, Swashbuckler, Thief. Sorcerer: Aberrant, Mind, Clockwork, Divine Soul, Draconic, Magus, Wild Mage Warlock: Arch Fey, Celestial, Fiend, Great Old One, Genie, Giant Wizard: Abjurer, Arcane Healer, Diviner, Evoker, Illusionist, Necromancer

[@Slurpified]

You guys have been absolutely knocking these vids out left and right. Almost done

[@4n3c]

I hope they do the illriger once they are done with the new core classes.

[@AndrewThoesen]

Food metaphor game is top notch today guys, y’all were hungry when filming

[@mandubabulam]

Got me hungry now dammit

[@rodolfobutti2676]

5:08 the wink lol

[@jdanner1234]

Tentacles out the Wazo is an unhinged statement to say without laughing

[@StriderZessei]

I spewed my coffee when I saw that.

[@robertvanark1800]

Simpsons quotes are the best quotes. Two decades ago my mother-in-law joked how I had a Simpsons quote/reference for any occasion.

[@TheWaynezWorld5]

It always comes back to food metaphors. #DessertDudes

[@cobaltkobold1850]

Want to hear something stupid. RAW, as an Aberrant Sorcerer, you can't subtle cast Detect Thoughts, either with Psionic Sorcery or Meta magic, because Detect Thoughts has a Material Component with a cost specified, 1 copper piece. That and Summon Aberration are the only two Psionic spells you can't discreetly cast.

[@rhiknyt]

Psionic Sorcery can negate the verbal and somatic components separately from the material component, and I would definitely argue that just holding a copper piece doesn't really betray that you're casting a spell

[@cobaltkobold1850]

@@rhiknyt But why include the restriction at all. Of all the Psionic Spells, only Detect Thoughts and Summon Aberration have a Material cost, and neither are consumed by casting the spell. Since they removed the ability for Aberrant and Clockwork sorcerers to swap their spells, there is no point to this restriction at all. The only way to cast Detect Thoughts without a material component is to take the Telepathic Feat, which would be redundant for an Aberrant Sorcerer anyway.

[@Paul_aka_Paul]

I think the clockwork deserves some more love. Keep in mind that their shield is not health or temp HP, so when you reduce damage, that also really bolsters your concentration, protecting it like no other subclass.

[@brandonstevensYT]

Love looking forward to these every week!

[@popolekupasupport2246]

9:04 With the cartomancer feat from the book of many things you can cast an action spell as a bonus action once per long rest.

[@Wannybooi]

I loved aberrant mind being able to switch out their spells so much. My entire psionic spell list was filled with spells like suggestion, charm person, and even geas. The social potential was enormous. Just the lack of that makes me reluctant to play it again, even though it is still a good subclass

[@daniellundberg9225]

Bring on the Great Old One Warlock... ;)

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

It hurts Clockwork even more.

[@Wannybooi]

​@@NotYourAverageNothing Not sure I agree. For clockwork it just limits you spell selection, whereas for abberant mind it also limits which spells you can usefor your psionic sorcery, which severely limits that ability. There is 2 types of spells you want to cast with psionic sorcery: Social spells which you want to cast subtly, and your bread and butter spells which you want to cast often and at a discount. The spelllist however mainly has concentration spells that you will cast once, and utility spells for which subtle casting doesn't matter. Only detect thoughts and calm emotions actually feel like good spells for casting subltely

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

@ It's worse for Clockwork because their spell list is worse and Aberrant Mind has better other features, so it doesn't need it as much even if benefits from it more. The flexible list for great spell schools was the main reason I liked Clockwork Soul. With that gone, I just think it's under-tuned. Aberrant Mind is still good despite the nerf.

[@EpicRandomness555]

5:50 You could have whoever you need to reach have an item that blocks certain magics. Like it’s meant to stop scrying but it blocks Sending and such as well.

[@colonelcabbage]

Wild Magic is an easy S. The table is so stacked in your favour, and I was having great success running the 2014 version with the level 14 ability. Grab a Feywild Shard and you will be off the chain!

[@bretgregersen9826]

I agree with your final rankings. The wild magic table is fantastic now and being able to roll on it constantly is pure joy, but power wise it hurts so much not getting the expanded spell list

[@KurnazTilki-g7c]

Wild is an S+ for me, one of the most powerful subclass in the 2024 edition.

[@taliesinllanfair4338]

I really loved in Dungeons of Drakkenheim when you gained a unicorn when you were facing a beholder. It wasn't from a wild magic sorceror. It was the rules you had on potions. It was just a joy to watch and I am sure it was a joy to play through.

[@HorizonOfHope]

Watching Kelly’s tattoos take shape is pretty sick.

[@Adagain]

@@HorizonOfHope I came for the well thought out DnD rules advice. I stayed for the pretty boy with the sick tattoos.

[@mattdahm4289]

Thanks dudes! ❤

[@patchnuggets]

I hope you get to review the 2024 Warlock subclasses soon. Here's a sneak peek for the Great Old One specifically: "I look at you, and you just...die." (bonus points if you find what spell it is)

[@jeffm9770]

Imagine getting the wild magic effect that gives you the max damage on your next spell and casting Heightened Meteor Swarm and everyone in the area has disadvantage on the spell and even if they make it they still take 120 total damage.

[@JugglingAddict]

This is best cast on incapacitated foes with empowered spell metamagic. (hmm taking a 3 lvl dip into rogue thief is actually not but when we start scribing scrolls with our sorcerer spells. Also makes for some decent flavor, landing on the street because of your chaotic magical tendencies, which lead to a life of crime and than later you learn how to controle your magic.) This is a really good subclass for a gestalt campaign.

[@rachelvalencia7112]

heightened only affects one target iirc

[@jeffm9770]

@rachelvalencia7112 right. Forgot about that

[@Mr2-3Magic]

I think the Bastion of Law feature from the Clockwork Sorcerer is something I would use everytime before taking a short rest. Once you get half your Sorcery Points back and (maybe having a Bloodwell Vial aswell) you can use this to give out all your excess Points before you fill up again. The Ward lasts until the next long rest so even though I don't think the feature is great I do think it can see at lot of use in preparing for combats rather than in combat itself. You often express your love for features that let you use excess ressources like rages, wildshapes etc you didn't use in combat for other things and I see this feature doing that. If this was a feature you could do at the end of the day with the ward lasting 24 hours it would be incredible.

[@smolsausages5361]

9:05 I believe the necklace of prayer beads lets you cast those spells as a bonus action, but it's not using a spell slot, so it already gets around the rule

[@neilkalakay831]

I started playing an aberrant mind sorcerer right when the phb dropped. So far have played levels 1-5 and it has been so fun. Feels powerful in combat and social encounters while also having a flavor that I enjoy.

[@chacepassmore6474]

I hope they release a new version of shadow sorcerer. It has always been my favorite subclass even before dungeons of drakkenheim. I'd love to see them get necromancy and illusion spells on their spell lists. And I'd love to see the Hound of Ill Omen tweaked in some fun ways.

[@JugglingAddict]

Sorcerers might be the best spell caster for your fighter to multiclass into. Because although wizards trumps over sorcerer for versatility it is sorcerer that best accomedates a fighter's action economy.

[@hotdachsbun]

Guys are looking great and the setup and effects are also amazing. Great job.

[@ryanholley406]

I will always love Sorcerers. By far my favorite class and caster overall. Super fun, usually great on character flavor, and solid abilities! Been really enjoying how they turned out with the 2024 rules update.

[@JJones-g2f]

So many food analogies this episode! I am, however, disappointed that I've never heard you mention the king of Northern Cuisine: Poutine!

[@packpacker4373]

The final ranking is definitely on point, at least in my opinion. I feel that lowering the clockwork soul to B was the "right" decision. I am a forever DM but if I got to play in a round of D&D 5e 2024 I'd 100% play a wild magic sorcerer. Man how much fun you can have with rolling on random tables. I can very much relate to what you dudes said about how rolling on random tables and having fun with that made you get closer as a group. The same is true for my long term home game group. We love random tables and they often create memorable moments that you can later on even build on or even create a complete adventure around. Loved the video.

[@insanesuperstar]

The first character I ever played in DND was a Dragonborn Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer, so that combination will always have a place in my heart.

[@elijahlyons8164]

i love wild magic so much, i created a wild magic subclass for a bunch of classes that didnt have one, and i revamped the ones that did just to really make me and my players that play them happy

[@Boone382]

Kelly, I NEED that shirt!!!! Awesome work as always guys.

[@sammmaaayyyy]

The randomness of Wild Magic is what makes it S tier. Endless laughs, epic moments, and moments for improv, creativity, and ingenuity. They buffed the table so much, the “negative” effects are so fun too. I do agree that the only thing holding it back though is the lack of a spell list unfortunately.

[@valiantgm]

Lots of food analogies and I’m here for it 😂 happy holidays!

[@Norade]

Speaking of the Wild Magic Table, I gave a player a wand that allows them to make 3 rolls on the table, and pick the one they like from among them as an action and it actually gets used a fair amount. I've given them an upgrade as well where they can charge it with a spell slot to either get a completely random spell from any list at a higher level, or a random spell of the same level from a single school of the player's choosing. I haven't seen this mode used yet, but I imagine it will be glorious when it finally does get used.

[@scotttaylor1479]

I am playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer in a Drakkenheim campaign and it is so much fun! I’m level 5 and haven’t turned into a potted plant yet! Side note: one thing that I find is sometimes I can’t use Tides of Chaos because I already have advantage on an attack thanks to Innate Sorcery… hard life 😂

[@patrickgreene2062]

Hey, captions on this video would be really good so everyone can enjoy your great work!

[@psionic_reverie]

Can we just talk about how cool the Draconic Sorcerer art is? :chefskiss:

[@joshuaholiday254]

Had a moment in a campaign recently as a level 15 wild magic sorcerer where I landed a hold monster on a creature when they succeeded by using bend luck. I actually said in that moment, “this was the feature that I thought I would never use”.

[@coreydorsey2696]

one little thing about clockwork they missed, and I don't see mentioned in the comments is the Clockwork Cavalcade ability doesn't make you pick from the options, all 3 happen when you use it, so it's a debuff clearer, AND a massive heal. And it fixes things I guess, lol

[@andrewmalloy2542]

Would love to see a video or a section of these class videos talking about if the subclasses that didn't make it to 2024 are still translatable or if they don't work at all without a lot of home rules tweaking

[@samuelnewnes8609]

All sorcerers are very good. Aberrant and Draconic boost the overall power level. Clockwork turns combats where your party was probably going to win into a sure thing. Wild Magic turns combats where you are likely to lose into surprising wins

[@carsonrush3352]

Mixing the 2024 fighter and sorcerer is the best gish option. It was fairly workable before. Now it's incredible.

[@samuelnewnes8609]

@ Why do you say that? Over a Paladin multiclass?

[@Zagrakhen]

For reminder, this is what Kelly & Monty gave to the Sorcerer subclasses in D&D 2014 5e : Aberrant Mind : S Clockwork Soul : S Draconic Bloodline : B Wild Magic : A

[@SmurfeyBlues]

Bastion of law actually scales really well in the higher tiers. Combined with blade ward, AoA, aid, and fire shield. Its niche but this is most definitely a good use of sorcery points at high levels

[@karverbosela1727]

For clockwork, dont forget the combo of bastion of law and armor of agathys

[@christophernazon7279]

I think you are absolutely underselling Clockwork. When you talk about the different archetype of Sorcerer, it is the best Support Sorcerer in the game hands down, where as Dragon is best Blaster.

[@BeanzimusPrime]

The Cartomancer Feat from Book of Many Things can let you cast a spell that’s ordinarily an action as a bonus action without expending a spell slot as you cast it once a day- in theory it could let you do the two spells in a turn thing!

[@relaxedfantasyreview]

@1:01:00 Kelly, dropping the fantastic truths 😎

[@leodouskyron5671]

58:26 Monty’s Triumph of Chaos speech (watch this if nothing else)

[@bigdream_dreambig]

The primacy of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

[@lulospawn]

My only real takeaway is that we need Joe playing a WM sorc

[@thedude0000]

My best use of Bastion of Law was giving them to our barbarian. With their rage, they made the most use of the damage reduction

[@spongemanhere]

eh, damage reduction happens before resistances. its arguably half as effective on barbarians

[@thedude0000]

@@spongemanhere not at all. Without Bastion: Damage: 20hp Reduced: 10hp With Bastion: Damage: 20hp Bastion: 1d8 (let's say 5hp) Actual Damage: 15hp Reduced: 7hp How is that not effective?!?

[@spongemanhere]

@thedude0000 its reducing the end damage by 3 instead of by 5 its not bad by any means, damage reduction just isn't that much better on a barb than on any other martial.

[@thedude0000]

@@spongemanhere You literally just agreed with my point. If it's going to be used, a barbarian makes better use of it. smh 🙄

[@spongemanhere]

@thedude0000 they don't though, it reduces damage less for them than other maritals its honestly better for monks since it can let them reflect bigger attacks

[@rushryan7]

Ice cream, bologna sandwiches, you guys were hungry when you filmed this lol

[@bigdream_dreambig]

Don't forget the pie! 🥧

[@okstus]

on that note we have a saying in Danish which roughly translates: Geniouses master the chaos whilst the idiots cleanup

[@wrightcore]

Sorcerer has always been my favorite primary caster in 5e, but in 5.5e it might be my favorite class overall (rivaled only by Paladin).

[@Durtaz]

Aberrant mind sorcerer has been one of the coolest subclasses I’ve played. I worked with my DM for a campaign to have my character be found in the snow with amnesia and psychic abilities. The only lead was a memory of suddenly hovering and essentially being abducted by aliens on a sandy beach, and a signet ring and walking cane. Through roleplay with the party the character reinvented their identity and accepted what they had as opposed to being possessed by trying to find out who they were. It was powerful storytelling from my group which im eternally thankful for. Plus wickedly powerful mechanically to boot, and the eventual party wide intelligence checks to unravel what happened was awesome to have unfold while slowly becoming a mind flayer while leveling. All while catapulting his cane through people and charming npcs and levitating above the battlefield. It was awesome. So many clutch things with the spell list both in 2014 and 2024. It’s just such a massive S tier. The flavor and mechanics are uniquely perfect.

[@michaelz1746]

Even before your analysis of the updates, I decided to run a wild magic sorceror in our new campaign and I’m even more committed now. Just sounds so fun! Also decided to take Magic Initiate Cleric as her origin feat to widen her array of cantrips right at level 1. And given we’re about to jump into Grim Hollow, I’m thinking that might come in handy!

[@TeutonicKnight92]

For clockwork soul’s Bastion of Law because it lasts until a long rest you could use the sorcery points equal to those you would get back from Sorcerous Restoration on someone 🤷

[@navels553]

Them describing wild magic: "Oh so this is clearly superior to all the other subclasses" Them: "I can't give it an S" WHAT Based off bend luck and tides of chaos alone i think this is clearly the best subclass lol

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

They had Vengeance Paladin at an S for being leagues better than the others. Wild Magic is more of an S than Vengeance is (I’d even demote it to an A).

[@StriderZessei]

Even the legendary Treantmonk gave Wild Magic a 5/5.

[@navels553]

@StriderZessei yeah I think they're just lowkey too focused on the wild magic table. The wild magic sorcerer basically never fails their saving throws and that's sooooo valuable, arguably makes them tankier in that regard than even the draconic sorcerer (against saving throws specifically) and you can even use it for initiative and shit. It's sooooooooo good

[@mariop8852]

Because of the difficulty in being able to deal with random situations

[@kasparhauser4472]

I already love my 2014 WM-Sorcerer so much and cant wait to play the 2024 one :)

[@rachelvalencia7112]

i'm so happy. i was looking for this the other day.

[@Wesmin]

Sorcerer content? Tier ranking content? How did you know my two favorite things? ❤ Thanks for the early Christmas present Dungeon Dudes!

[@davidoswald5749]

Definitely intrigued by the clockwork subclass...

[@PhoenixNorthstar]

39:30 I had this problem going in a different direction with the 2014 rules, I was building a Genasi Genie Warlock, but with that they actually built in a solution of the Air options giving separate resistances to Lightning (electricity) and Thunder (sound) damage. Different damage types, but Thunder and Lightning is a pairing so iconic it predates human history. I feel this would have been an easy fix by just giving Thunder as an extra option for the Dragonborn. You could also add it as a sorcerer damage type, And yes that would mean that you would add your bonus damage to less spells, but you have two resistances and Thunder still has some good spells especially at lower levels (Thunder Step, Thunder Wave, Shatter, etc, as well as the Thunderclap and Booming Blade cantrips). Another option that was used in a different edition was Resistance+Resistance = Immunity, but I could see that causing balance issues in 5E.

[@federicoboschetti4465]

Wall of force + proficiency in Con saving throws + dice not making less than 10 = at level 14 you automatically keep concentration until hit with 38+ damage. Then of course if you take Absorb Element from the Magic Initiate feat or have somebody cast Warding Bond on you, you would be able to pass automatically even against a wopping 75 damage hit.

[@lunatickgeo]

In our games, we have a house rule that every time one of us goes down to 0 hp and are brought back, we also gain a level of exhaustion. So we used every damage-mitigating tool in our arsenal. I agree with the Dudes about Bastion of Law in general, but in our games, sometimes that 5 sorcery points to ward our paladin or fighter was the difference on whether or not we finish combat with or without gaining a level of exhaustion for our tanks. Since it lasts until a Long Rest, I don't cast it on our paladin unless we know we're about to enter combat. I rarely cast in in combat (they're right, I have better uses for my actions). I totally agree about it being a reactive sub-class. I found myself playing the support/buffer role more than a blaster and keeping myself ready to respond or counter (this was 2014 rules) spells against my party. I found a lot of uses for Vortex Warp, getting party members out of danger and repositioning them. And totally agree with Monty about Wall of Force, I felt like a Green Lantern with that spell. Also Trance of Order is great. It meant I never lost concentration and it's a bonus action, which meant I still got to sling spells in the turn I activated it.

[@mosqapuccino]

… you recorded before dinner I swear there isn't 5 minutes without you making a food comparison in the vein of Ross Matthews trying to judge a gown in Drag Race. Made me laugh. Love your vids.

[@toddcline9343]

I love Sorcerer's and Draconic Sorcerer's in specific but excited to try an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.

[@VetinariClone]

Wall of Force is such a powerful spell that yes, it makes the entire subclass an A on its own.

[@MHart1385]

I'd watch a video entirely on them sharing stories of how everyone met and became friends

[@andremedaglia350]

An argument one can make in pro of the Clockwork Sorcerer spell list is that you don't need to waste the limited number of spells you can learn as a sorcerer with those utility spells that only come around sometimes. You can focus on getting all the cool stuff (the blasting spells) without worrying if you should get the utility ones.

[@daneroberts1996]

The art for the Draconic soul man with the green hair is SOOO hot

[@007narufan]

I'm preparing for a new campaign and I was set on a great old one abbarant mind sorlock. This video had thrown me into turmoil because of the wild magic sorc

[@ishanijasmin]

With Clockwork, you can cancel out disadvantage from long range attacks. Excellent feature

[@Lorebrary_EG]

And we are the Dungeon Dudes

[@villesavolainen5793]

Rary's Telepathic Bond can be cast as ritual that adds to its value on the Aberrant spell list.

[@Jin_1814]

Love the video. All subclasses are great and well designed, they just offer different benefits.

[@44mac91]

Happy to be in the "Sorcerer is the best class in the game" club alongside Kelly. It's so good mechanically and thematically.

[@rachelvalencia7112]

23:45 innate sorcery + trance of order is amazing