E1077: "Alchemy" Author Rory Sutherland on Darwinian approach to business, analyzing outliers & more

"Alchemy" Author Rory Sutherland on the Darwinian approach to business, analyzing outliers, why eccentric CEOs have a psychological advantage with customers & more!
1:00 Jason intros "Alchemy" author Rory Sutherland
3:45 Architecture is the cheapest way to buy art
6:01 How Rory is dealing with quarantine, why he prefers working from home, and will businesses be more efficient post-COVID?
14:12 What is Rory's job, why you should strive to create your own job title, treating the free market as Galapagos Island, using the Darwinian approach to business & analyzing outliers
19:47 Why some business successes are due to psychological discoveries: Red Bull, Dyson & Nespresso
27:25 Jason's theory on why Dyson succeeded, Kano theory on product development, why eccentric CEOs have a psychological advantage with customers, how Uber's arrival map was the key feature of the product
33:48 Why the actual value of products are typically not the proposed value of products
39:40 How new products hold value as a conversation starter, how context, setting & framing is essential to innovation
43:21 Two ways to create economic value: find something people want and figure out how to make it OR figure out what you can make and make people want it & examples: Lionfish, Fish That Ate The Whale, Royal Potatoes
50:13 Why are Americans resistant to behavioral economics? Is there still a hangover from McCarthyism? How this relates to COVID and wearing masks
1:02:08 Daily news is 95% noise, why political news coverage doesn't reflect political reality
1:11:40 Why modern politics is dumb since far left and far right are much closer than they've ever been, issues with referrals & nepotism
1:21:06 How Rory got his first job in advertising "as a weirdo" and the wildcard since he was hired as part of a group, individual hiring vs. group hiring
1:23:20 TWiST Book Club Questions - Casey: Favorite behavioral study experiment or one that he found the results to be surprising? (ie. Milgram experiment or Stanford Prison Study)
1:32:12 Catherine: What’s Rory’s favorite alchemist moment of his own from work? Has he had to advocate for an illogical idea, and how did he persuade others?
1:41:01 What will we lose by being remote?
1:51:19 Reading their own audiobooks, how cheaper and easier consumption does NOT cannibalize original mediums
2:01:26 How Rory would reinvent the theatre experience, why modern corporations are slow to innovate & experiment
2:11:18 Greatness of re-readable books and rewatchable movies/television

[@Buddfox]

I’m glad Rory Sutherland read his audiobook - he’s got a great speaking voice and accent, it’s a part of his magic 📖👍👍

[@foundational]

It's always amazing to listen to Rory.. he has this amazing gift of looking at things from alternative angle

[@teckx5]

Rory's insight and how he uses analogies are fantastic. Great Episode, Great Guest!

[@melissawyborn8593]

Wow this was amazing, I could have listened for another 2 hours! Please have Rory on again. Thank you very much for such an amazing guest!

[@rjyoungling220]

I'm SOOOOO psyched to finally see Silicon Valley ( tech innovation) start to blend with London/NYC etc. (advertising, creative, psychological innovation). Hell yeah! Good on you Jason! Edit: Also, he's not just an author. He's Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK, One of the most important companies in Advertising.

[@coreyraby9173]

Re gno

[@DalrajNijjar]

Always thought-provoking listening to Rory - his ability to pick out counter-intuitive concepts is incredible

[@msj8285]

Jason's face at 1:26:23 is how we all felt at times. Thanks for this interview, gentlemen.

[@agentling1]

We really need Rory to help sort out the music industry

[@sbduggan]

Rory is such a giant of thought. Great to see him on the show!! I can see so many startup bros just not getting the fact you NEED to go on these journeys of thought to get to a REAL insight.

[@exceldesign]

Rory's bringing that Ogilvy energy. Love it!

[@firstspar]

Rory is an amazing speaker! Excellent choice to have him on. Very glad you did!

[@startups]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@firstspar]

@@startups also - you guys feel like you need to go sit in the library for a week straight after hearing this? 😅

[@startups]

@@firstspar 100%

[@saurabhkumar-hf7wk]

Ds is the 🥖s🐱🐵🍎

[@providename]

This was incredible - I loved the rapport between Jason and Rory towards the end.

[@Redant1Redant]

What a great guy. Fun to watch

[@KeebRocks]

Loved this! Thank you! Just re reading Rory's book Alchemy now as well! Highly recommended!!

[@freyrik]

This channel helps me. Rory Sutherland is a GREAT Alchemist. Go England

[@freyrik]

Got me into Alchemy. #totem

[@NielsRask-tillsammans]

Awesome ep. Got 2 copies of the book - one for me and one for my CMO. Yay!

[@prayaanshmehta3200]

-some businesses are successes because of psychological discoveries 31:55 5 things that humans really care about which economists (and more rational people) don't really understand 33:30 taleb and rory about what we think products are for v/s what they're really for 36:34 how many people are buying electric car exclusively for environment? 39:40 TWIS timestamp

[@tylerc8997]

One of my favorite episodes so far. Great job Jason! Can't wait to see what else comes out of the Slack channels!

[@voxelverse]

I'd explain dyson equivalent to a nice bicycle or running gear. Its a physically active task where you are heavily engaged with and focused on the purchase so you are willing to pay large amounts for relatively minor improvements.

[@sbduggan]

He touches on that around 23:50 with the phrase "you don't get an endorphin rush from mid-market retail". Great point though.

[@richardsmith9187]

Peanut butter and Jelly in same jar. American product at almost all grocery stores. Goober is the product name.

[@GroudonsGame]

2:05:00 "Someone should invent a moviegoing experience where you can pay $30/month and you can see however many movies you want" Wasn't that essentially MoviePass?

[@ronaldbolden9514]

It's not always getting the job... It's sometimes keeping the job. A company I formally worked for would hire people or get some black employees and no matter how well or how much they try and/or succeeded they are let go before the 90 day hire on period. I made it through my 90 days and through 2 yrs with the company through referrals and partnerships. Everyone that didn't did what all other employees from ethnic groups did but they were fired for not being capable of performing their duty's. Even though they were more capable the their Caucasian counterparts. I was told by my peers in my department that I learned quick and was capable of being lead one day and then was let go 3 days later. Then I was informed that it was just because of my color and was a threat to the "Good 'ol boy" system there. My wife happens to work there and got to hear other supervisors and administrators admit that, that it was my color not capability. So the "buddy system" is good and bad but mostly crap because those that are truly dedicated and capable does not get the job because they don't "hang out" or talk with co-worker on more personal levels.

[@EvaGreenFanPennyDreadful]

This guy is like if nassim taleb was an actual ad man lol

[@SatishKumar-tl3le]

1:48:00

[@shawlsbyveronika8068]

That damn moist toilet paper! lol

[@ExplorerLink]

Lion fish is tasty :)

[@ratesgroup1883]

Too many ads at the start!

[@scottysscandinavia5793]

It always seems that Mr Sutherland has never done an 'experiment' or conducted any research on a sample bigger than himself. He projects himself onto everything he talks about, and appears to have very little understanding of any demographic or psychographic group other than his own. A tell that gives this away being that he always misses one of the most fundamental and universal traits of human behaviour that provides the real explanation for why pretty much everything gets bought - including Dyson vacuum cleaners. It's something that people that use themselves as their sample always miss, because it's so difficult for most to people to admit that they're prone to it. I guess it explains why so many people in marketing and advertising get so starry eyed whenever he speaks or writes. He provides explanations that they can personally understand, because their frames of reference have the same limits as his. I suppose it's a good way to appeal to your target audience and sell books. I feel sorry for his agency's clients' shareholders though.

[@Sadaatty]

Why can i sense so much spite, envy and insecurity in your message? Are you overawed and intimidated by the breadth of this mans experience, knowledge and creativity? And his vast intellect and wit? The man has over 40 year of experience of selling at londons top adverising agencies, selling things to people they don't want. His insights into human behaviour, consumption, socio-anthropology are at times bewildering if not prophetic. He is obviously a obsessive compulsive reader, never does he cease to amaze me, and i am 40 year old serial entrepenuer with a background in advertising like Rory. His talks are never ever dull, and his british satire and wit is just incredible. I think the Scandavians are just sore about british design, art and advertising. As we are without the doubt the captains of the creative and literary services! Instead of fearing him and envying him, just be modest and humble enough to acknowledge that you can learn huge amounts from this man.

[@scottysscandinavia5793]

@@Sadaatty Rather than the prejudice and personal insults, could you give me some specific examples of this man's vast intellect that I can be modest and humble enough to acknowledge?

[@Sadaatty]

My friend,, I can’t convince you, that your stood in front of giant if you only able to see a gnat. It’s your own loss, as your myopia and contempt for and toward the this man automatically prohibits you from enjoying his wisdom and experience. You speak about him projecting himself, and talking about himself so much and him getting in the way of his own understanding, but you seem more fixated on him than he is himself? Please try to enjoy the man for the genius he is, it won’t damage you - you will only grow and benefit. Don’t fear greatness, embrace it and learn from it.

[@scottysscandinavia5793]

@@Sadaatty Then give me an example that has given you the impression that Mr Sutherland is a genius. Here's one that gives me the opposite impression - 'A weed is a flower with an advertising budget'. BTW, I have no contempt for Mr Sutherland at all. Unlike some, I always play the ball, not the man. I just find that many of his ideas are harmful to business, and he positions himself as an advisor to business. They certainly don't do the ad industry any favours.