e233: Tamiya Frog Front End Upgrade, For Brat and Lancia Rally too!

Thank you for watching my video!
041002-01 Tamiya Frog Inner Arm Mount
shpws.me/Rzau
041003-01 Tamiya Frog Ampro Front Knuckle
shpws.me/Rzav
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[@iggytse]

If only this was around in the 80s. Amazing front suspension mod. And I like the centre mounted servo with the equal length connecting rods.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Tell me about it...

[@quesnoy1342]

You also solved another huge problem I've always had with my Frog: floating caster angle. Originally, Tamiya wanted us to be able to adjust the caster angle but the way they designed it, you couldn't lock it in place very well. By the end of the day, the nut had loosened enough that the locking teeth were no longer engaging and the tie rods were dictating the caster angle. The tie rods forced the caster to take an extreme "high speed stability" position, which entailed a very slow steering ratio. It was a lot like those "chopper" motor cycles with their super raked front forks. Anyway, I'm looking forward to getting my frog off my shelf and back on the road with these new "fixed" steering knuckles. AWESOME!!!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Exactly, it was there for a reason but you could not dial it in and then, it seemed to love to fall apart. Plus, with how basic the front end was, its not like adjustable caster will help. Glad you like it!

[@adriansmith3010]

You continue to impress and amaze. You sir are a gift to the Tamiya community

[@AMPROEngineering]

Haha! Thanks man. This is all good fun.

[@RedLP5000S]

Soooooooo much better!! Now that's what a Frog should look and handle like. I completely agree that the previous, taller suspension was way too pronounced. Now it looks fantastic and really compliments the rear. Man, you do some epic work. 🤘

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thanks a lot man! I appreciate it!

[@muddfoot69]

Holy cow, now I need a frog! I’m assuming you’re working on longer arms and better front suspension for the monster beetle now...makes sense. You’re an artist man

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank you! So I would like to but the big wheels are a problem. They add more stress to the arms and I worry that they Will be way too weak.

[@sylvestersstuff9049]

Fantastic work, I love the look of this modification.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank you!

[@nicholastory9449]

I was looking forward to seeing this upgrade. Big improvement. Congratulations. I need three of these kits for my Frogs!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Glad you like it! I have been wanting to do this for years now.

[@nicholastory9449]

The front end behaves completely differently to the original design. What’s the easiest way to purchase three of these sets???

[@Pablo668]

That's awesome. Very good design. At the very least the uprights/knuckles on the outer end of the arms is an improvement over the original set up being one piece.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Very true

[@stevenwallman2346]

I had a Frog years ago (when it first came out, yes, I’m that old) and I liked it a lot. I know it wasn’t the best, but I never had a problem with the rear suspension. But, I never did like the front suspension, I especially didn’t like the fact that it had no damper of any kind. If I ever get another Frog, this looks like a really good setup for the front.

[@AMPROEngineering]

The rear was not a big problem on the Frog. it was when it was used on the Blackfoot that the issues showed. I just so happened to decide to build a frog and was in love with my blackfoot with the new rear suspension so I needed it on the Froggy too!

[@RIKDDY]

So dang cool. Im getting a used brat and wanted to upgrade it

[@AMPROEngineering]

I am a huge brat fan!

[@CarminesRCTipsandTricks]

That's the most PLANTED Frog I've ever seen!! Seriously. Alberto, that's IMPRESSIVE! 👍👍😎 One thing I've been wondering..... and I can't be the ONLY one. *My Favorite* ORV Chassis ever, was the King Blackfoot. 😃 It's Front Suspension was very similar to what you've done with the Rear, Double Wishbone design... It flat out WORKED, better than any ORV before, especially with the right Shocks! Better than any Blackfoot, MB, or any big tire ORV. (NOT counting the WT-01, because that was too radically different) Sadly it was short lived, and people didn't have time to really warm up to it. Old Chassis' - even front end parts for King Blackfoot, are RARE and priced accordingly! 😖😞 Could you please design a King Blackfoot Type of Front Suspension? Even improved? I'm fairly certain that it would involve everything from the Main Chassis Rails forward... But I also think that it would be worthwhile for those of us who miss the KB, and would make a great upgrade for the Re-Re Blackfoot and Beetle! 😃 Carmine ✈🚂🚙

[@AMPROEngineering]

Oh I am. The KBF really is unloved and I don’t know why. I will have a whole front end for that soon.

[@CarminesRCTipsandTricks]

Alberto, my only guess is that the "purists" prefer the Frog/Brat Front Suspension, that really never should have been jacked up with big 2.2s... My Opinion of course, but I was ecstatic when I saw the KBF!! Everything I wanted, nothing I didn't (WT-01!). I will definitely keep my eyes open for the KBF front end!! I might start collecting Blackfoot ORV Chassis parts now!! 😃

[@CarminesRCTipsandTricks]

I'm SURE I've commented when this came out... But now I'm FINALLY able to BUY stuff!!! Lots of it. 😁 Getting a Frog. Wanted a Brat too, but my Inheritance took too long to get here... sold out everywhere. 😭😭 QUESTION: back in the day, with our SLOPPY Blackfoots, we would take those Front "Arms", and Drill the 3 big holes on each side to 4mm... Then we'd cut to fit 3mm I.D, 4mm O.D. Brass Rod, and insert them in the Arms, fastened with 3mm Hardware. It worked BETTER than new! Alberto, is there enough "meat" on the AmPro Arms, to drill out to 4mm?? Sure, I could just use the Original.... But yours LOOK so much better, and I can get them in Purple! 😊 I'm also Painting the Chassis Purple. 😲 Believe it or not, Tamiya Lexn Paint sticks brilliantly and PERMANENTLY to these Frames! 👍👍 Carmine ✈🚂🚙

[@AMPROEngineering]

There is but i wouldnt. The nylon works a lot better than the ABS did but you should be able to. Yeah, I use that lexan paint for ABS quite a lot!

[@semperatis]

That make some difference to it's performance.

[@AMPROEngineering]

It sure helps

[@terrywatts674]

That's a fine Blue Jumper you have there...

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank you Terry!

[@rimfire2642]

I had a Frog in the 80s. How do you upgrade a Frog? BUY AN RC-10.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah that is hard to ignore.

[@gogotrololo]

Your frog looks good! I still trying to sell mine to the first person haha.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thanks!

[@rcalltypes8230]

Not only does it look better, it works as it should. No point of having 100mm dampers if you only have 40mm of suspension travel, just saying. Well done...can you get them in black?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah exactly. Shapeways cant polish parts that are dyed black so they dont offer the black color in that state of surface finish. I use matte spray paint and it looks awesome. The nylon sucks in that paint as well as the dye.

[@mysterygamer48]

I’m got an old frog for a project car but since the car is so old I don’t really know what is a necessary upgrade for it. If you can give me any tips that would be amazing. Awesome video and that car is not frog anymore lol.

[@AMPROEngineering]

I would install full ball bearings and then modern electronics. Start there.

[@mysterygamer48]

@@AMPROEngineering thank you

[@Bigfurry1975]

Uh oh, someone’s feelin’ froggy! Rib it.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Haha

[@rcsnapon2132]

Awesome video 🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏 I actually really need your help I purchased a Tamiya Subaru brat and I’m just about done building it and it came with a esc and Moter so here’s my question Moter 2 wires yellow and green wire ESC 3 wires yellow Blue orange which 2 from the esc am I using// I know I’m not using one of them please help 🙏

[@AMPROEngineering]

OH yeah, you got the newer ESC from Tamiya. I actually dont have one but look in the manual for the ESC. The three wires are used if you have a brushless system but the stock motor is not. You will simply set the ESC up for brushed motors and not use one wire. The manual will cover that. I dont have one so I am of no use! Sorry!

[@rcsnapon2132]

K yha I recently built tamiya lunchbox same situation I ended up putting my own electronics in I’m awesome at wiring anything but these new tamiya set up I just don’t get lol it’s funny I can’t find a video either I figured you knew which one wire but it’s cool I’ll figure it out you were the first person I thought of thank you 🙏

[@Nlangkirby135]

Would standard 2.2 size buggy tires work with this? Maybe you could experiment with those.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yes as long as the offset is correct.

[@65BAJA]

Just received my order from Shapeways today for this front end. The factory arms are a wee bit tight in the uprights. Like the Tamiya arms are too wide or the uprights are too narrow. I was going to sand the arms ever so slightly so they move freely. Or is there a better way?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Depending on what material you selected or any anomalies in the polishing canister could cause this. I would give it a light sand and see how it goes. A little goes a long way. Email me if you have any issues as I cant check replies here. [e-mail]

[@familyman831]

I was wondering what pillow balls you used. I cant find one which fits and that's big enough for a 4mm cap. If you could get back to me I would really appreciate it. I have been stuck with this for months

[@AMPROEngineering]

I may be missing something here. The only thing I modified on this was drilling out the hole on the knuckle and tapping it to fit a 3 mm M3 ball stud. Shoot me an email at [e-mail] With a photograph if you could

[@j0hnnykn0xv1lle]

I'm building a new Frog right now, I'm wondering if anyone ever tried a horizontal battery placement for better front and rear balance. The thing I love about ORV is there's so much room to put stuff inside esp with ESC. I'm going to try and install an LED kit on the Frog with that cavity next to the servo being where I put the LED box.

[@AMPROEngineering]

I haven't but that is because the batteries I use are so small and light that they really don't affect the handling much.

[@need4drift]

You have amazing passion for rc and great engineering skills. Thanks for the video and info. Do you have a Europe products warehouse so we can buy and support your work from?

[@sorryociffer]

He does not. You order the parts from shapeways. They make them as they are ordered.

[@need4drift]

@@sorryociffer Cool. Thanks for the input.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Shapeways is based in the Netherlands.

[@need4drift]

@@AMPROEngineering So that means its europian right?

[@shannonnufer]

So I bought an install these exact uprights complete set and installed recommended shocks. What did you do to keep from losing 60% of your steering radius my tires bump the lower mounting stud for the shock.

[@AMPROEngineering]

So the standard Frog can pretty much turn in its own length. I always thought that was crazy. So This car turn on a dime but make sure the lower mount doesnt stick out too far and hit the Tire. I didnt notice this thing having any turning issues. Shoot me a picture at [e-mail]

[@KenMrKLC]

I am looking to get into professional rc racing, would this car be competitive with the offerings from Schumacher, Team Associated and TLR? I assume there is a large amount of adjustability for the track here?

[@AMPROEngineering]

No, not even close. The Frog, even with all my mods, is still light years behind anything now. With modern composites, high powered motors, bullet proof gearboxes and all kinds of wheel and tire combos that wont really fit this car. This is a fun car to have at historic events or to race for fun.

[@KenMrKLC]

@@AMPROEngineering I was being sarcastic….. just playing haha….

[@bestamerica]

' i used to cut half tamiya frog ORV and put on the traxxas chassic... another 2nd tamiya frog ORV with 4 traxxas tires... already in my channel video

[@AMPROEngineering]

Wow I need to see that

[@Joe_Hutchinson513]

Please give us an upgrade for the blackfoot's front suspension. It seems to want to bind when compressed rather than move freely. Maybe have smaller "uprights" and longer control arms of equal length, something similar to the super blackfoot.

[@AMPROEngineering]

I am working on that but the problem is the mass of the front tires. They will over stress the plastic with a hot motor.

[@mark737-c4x]

Hi I'm having problems with the front axles on my brat coming out of the steering arm tried a few fixes no success any ideas on how I can resolve this?

[@AMPROEngineering]

I have seen this happening a lot now. The best you can do is use super glue to hold them in place. This is about the best you can do. Even replacements are terrible.

[@later_daze_4080]

Looking forward to seeing some track footage of this Frog !

[@AMPROEngineering]

Me too!

[@Mistrilll]

Ampro what’s up, so if using the crp tower pair, and a pair of your ampro design steering knuckles, what size shock could be used I’m having a difficult go in locating parts mp3 & mp2 for my tamiya build, I have located 60mm shocks however from an rc10 original, which fit the crp part. Please advise and ty.

[@AMPROEngineering]

The problem is you need smaller scale shocks. I use 1/12 or even 1/16 shocks. Best I can say is search ebay for 1/12 and 1/16 shocks. Be aware that smaller shocks usually use smaller hardware (1/16 ones use m2.5 or m2).

[@Mistrilll]

@@AMPROEngineering thank you for that advice mp was 1/12, maybe some spare around but which length are the legs on the homemade towers your offering taller then crp if so by how much you mentioned 72mm and crp was 60 but your knuckles and a crp tower is what, can you just hold some shocks up to your model please help a brotha out.

[@SANDSCORCHER]

That's one superb solution for fitting front shocks/dampers to the Frog 🐸 The car has a uniquely elegant front end without damping, albeit a horribly bouncy one, in practice😆 Any other mount/shock combo has almost always just looked too big and ungainly and out of place Your mounts and choice of shocks flow beautifully with the lines of the car and are the ideal scale so as to not look out of place or ugly Another triumph over engineering adversity here I feel 😀👌🏻😎👍🏻

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank you. wanted something hidden but then the overall performance and cost would have been sacrificed.

[@SANDSCORCHER]

Well, yours is an elegant solution to the problem, totally in-keeping with the overall design of the car and seemingly without an ounce of compromise, so extremely well done again Sir 😎😎😎👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@simonyoung6120]

How you got ShapeWays to make these parts in alloy and see how they fit. be nice in TRF Blue anodize

[@AMPROEngineering]

That would cost a fortune in stainless....and two fortunes in ALU.

[@eddiereyes2225]

I swear spending hours and hours in my shop modifying my cars ended my marriage 🤯🤣😂🤣🤘

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah, I can see how that can happen.

[@frankiechow39]

Which damper would you suggest for the front with this kit? What about tamiya hi cap mini?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Good question. Most 1/10 shocks are too stiff. I still suggest these 1:16 units as they work great on the car.

[@skagerstrom]

It looks better than the original :P Did your front mount fit well in the Bush Devil frame by the way?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah looks like the Bush Devil and S. Black foot are the same. I need to start some work on those soon!

[@MikeTheBike58]

Looking at buying a Brat,these fit straight on?. Any adaption to the body mounts for a Brat?.

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yes they fit right on without any modification

[@tecnica2001]

I don’t want to sound critical here, but, that car should be discarded completely, here’s my address......😁....amazing work sir👍👍👍 looking forward to whatever you’re doing next😁

[@AMPROEngineering]

Hahahahah! Thanks man

[@mlubecke]

Do you know if the Brat body will fit with this front Shock setup?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yes.

[@nathanc1513]

Are you still able to use the Brat front body mount with the Inner Arm Mount?

[@AMPROEngineering]

It should fit. The provisions for the mount are added to the shock mounts so the plastic part should just slot in like the frog.

[@nathanc1513]

@@AMPROEngineering I thought it used the horizontal slot a the top of the inner arm mount which I didn't spot on your version.

[@nathanc1513]

@@AMPROEngineering Keen to buy these if you can update the model for these parts to include the slots.

[@bradkalman2353]

What do you think it's top speed is a are you going to get a cc02? Please stay safe against the fires.

[@AMPROEngineering]

This does 25mph. It is limited to that on the radio. Don’t know about the CC02. So far I don’t like it at all. Looks so cheap. Thanks man, I will.

[@familyman831]

Hello please help me I have been going mad to change my brats upright links. The 3mm white half balls come right off and I see you have 4mm. Ones can you send me a link. So I wont have this problem any more Kind regards richard Kind regards

[@familyman831]

58354 is the part number but you have 4mm instead of 3mm which I need

[@AMPROEngineering]

Can you give me some more info? You mean the ball cups?

[@familyman831]

@@AMPROEngineering sorry it's so hard to describe over text. But its what the ball cups fit on to. It looks like you have replaced the ball 3mm cups to 4mm cups. Now I have the 4mm cups but they dont fit into this==part no 58354.... So what part did you replace this part with to fit the 4mm cups ? Hope that makes sense haha

[@davidturner2365]

That’s cool

[@AMPROEngineering]

Thank!

[@SpeKterDesigns]

What Tamiya model is it that had the leaning steering and do es anyone make an equivalent now?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Do you mean camber gain? So many of them....The Hornet was a famous one but at the moment, I think the most recent model is the rising fighter.

[@SpeKterDesigns]

@@AMPROEngineering No actually unless you are turning into a corner a tilting suspension front end would PREVENT camber gain. Usually made on a reverse trike It doesnt take any imagination to make one on a 4 wheeler of any kind with an independent rear suspension. thekneeslider.com/harley-davidson-leaning-trike-patent-application/ Have you seen a four wheeler like the wheel tilt above? I have been told it was a Hornet model.

[@kitchenbriks3685]

Can I just buy the stl files and print this stuff myself?

[@AMPROEngineering]

Certain parts are available on myminifactory. I cannot recall if these are or not at the moment but everything I make is designed for SLS nylon and not FDM. FDM cannot hold the tolerances that are needed for this. There are also certain components we have developed that are not available due to IP issues.

[@johnmiller4553]

DID YOU DYE THAT CHASSIS BLUE? Or buy it ?

[@AMPROEngineering]

No this is from the Bush Devil.

[@CarminesRCTipsandTricks]

Oh, and have you seen the new CC02 yet?? 😳 A couple of big players got pre-releases, with some mixed reviews.... They COULD have included BEARINGS, and not give us those STUPID 73mm USELESS Vinyl Tires!!! 😡😠 However, much of it is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the CC01!!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yup, I have seem the CC02. From what I have seen, it is pointless and a waste.

[@CarminesRCTipsandTricks]

Sadly, I have to agree. Overengineered - even by Tamiya standards!! For $100 LESS, you can get a MST CFX Chassis, built for all the CC01 Bodies. Does the same thing, for Less, BETTER.

[@wholespeed]

You mentioned the Falcon. Wishful thinking. Tamiya for whatever reason won’t give their diehard fans what they want. Bring back the Falcon!!!

[@AMPROEngineering]

Yeah that is why I redesigned and strengthened the whole car. Tamiya parts are gone and awful so they needed to be rethought.

[@sorryociffer]

Wanna sell your junfac shock towers?

[@AMPROEngineering]

I will have them on eBay soon.