BETTER ATMOS with AURO 3D UPMIXER? | DTS Neural X | Immersive Surround Sound

[@TechnoDad]

So for Auro Up-Mixing, you'll need a 5.1 output. So change the audio output on your LG UBK90 from Bitstream to 5.1 and you should be able to upmix those DTS:X tracks.

[@psyphonyxaudio]

#Correct

[@ealanosborne]

Ah haaaaaa, okay then! Thanks!

[@TheReverendSlim]

NeuralX actually uses some steering logic, so it's an actual upmixer. Auro3D is basically an advanced Hall DSP, cloning the adjacent ear-level channels into the heights and applying reverb, then attenuating each based on an analysis of the reverb inherent in the source. So naturally, it will probably put the most content in the heights, just as any of the other artificial DSP modes on your AVR would. Just be aware that in either case, you are throwing away all of Dolby's object data when "upmixing" a native Atmos track, including any dynamic objects that pan between the ear-level speakers. With Atmos, if you're not getting a sense of above-ear-level sound even when the heights are only playing a little when heard in isolation, try tweaking the distance/delay of your heights. If you're depending on the auto-cal in your AVR, it may not be set to the ideal distance, ESPECIALLY with in-ceiling speakers that aren't well-aimed toward the MLP. I recommend this process for checking x.x.4 systems with top front/rear speakers: 1. Play the 9.1.6 test tone track from the Dolby Demo disc. When it gets to top mid, you should hear the sound image between your top front/rear speakers. Assuming each speaker has already been level-matched, if it images further toward the front, increase the distance of the top rear speaker until it snaps into place between them. You can also check this with the overhead chimes in the Audiosphere demo clip. When it's set correctly, you should get a solid phantom image at top mid. 2. Play the SANTERIA demo. There will be a maraca sound that should image dead center between the top front speakers above you. As long as you hear it image there, at this point, you know that your distances between each of the height speakers are correct for best imaging. 3. Now for imaging between the two layers: Play the LEAF demo on a loop. Listen specifically for the bursts of wind that arc from ear-level to the heights. If you don't hear it smoothly move between them, tweak the distances of all 4 heights up a little equally (i.e. +0.1 feet on all 4 heights), then listen again. Then try down a little. When you find the right setting, you should hear a cohesive transition between them. The sound will become a coherent bubble around you once you have really nailed this setting. You will know it when you hear it. Generally, adding a bit of distance applies less delay, effectively making those speakers sound closer to you from an imaging standpoint, and subtracting a bit of distance makes them sound further away. You're looking for the setting that phantom images well between the two layers. 4. Play the ENCOUNTER demo clip and there should be a sound that arcs from elevated front left to right surround, right surround overhead to the left surround, then back, then overhead and toward front left. You will know you have it right if the sound in this clip moves smoothly between each layer. Once you really nail an Atmos configuration, you should get a fuller sound. It still won't make up for a bad mix... but I've found that most people who aren't satisfied with Atmos depended on their auto-cal's detection of distances and never did any tweaking to ensure that it was optimal. If it sounds like two discrete layers rather than a bubble around you, you have a configuration issue.

[@ealanosborne]

WOW!!! That’s some incredible insight in the proper steps to calibrate speakers for Atmos! Thank you very much! 🤘

[@jimcameron1234]

With DTS X you get FULL true STEREO overhead effects unlike with AURO upmixing

[@joker927]

Wow. I gotta do this. I have relied on my auto cal plus some attenuation but perhaps it's the distance settings...

[@JonMoralesLA]

Say what you will about Auro 3D…just got my Denon 4700h and got out the Dolby demo disc. Auro 3D sounds better to my ears with the demo content. I’m doing back and forth A/B testing and it’s a pretty clear win for Auro 3D. I’ll be damned! Just got the receiver a day ago but I’m looking forward to really putting Auro 3D to the test. But gotta say that so far it’s absolutely living up to the hype. I have a proper Auro 3D configuration 5.1.4. Just amazed so far. I did set Auro 3D settings to Movie and level up a bit to 12. Ealan…I think your for sure missing out by not having the proper Auro 3D speaker configuration. The Auro 3D police probably should come after you for that. I have my 4 height speakers directly above the surrounds and fronts and I have the height speakers pointed to my standing head level position at the main listing position. So the heights aim above you not directly at you in a proper setup. So in this respect Atmos positing of top overhead speakers is not going to give you the best of results with Auro 3D.

[@robert71457]

WOW...great info! ty

[@Lowkey_nxthxn]

This is why I’m in love with the DTS X upmix

[@eelz202]

Great video. I found the best case for Auro 3D to be for music. The upmix sounds very natural and truly gives the music a massive soundstage. I have both front/back in-wall heights, as well as four in-ceiling speakers. For music, the external amp for the ceiling speakers is off, on for movies.

[@audiovideotech9777]

I have a Denon X4100W (Dolby Atmos & Auro 3D). I feel it's the Movie Studios that is not putting in the proper Atmos effects even though they want to sell a 4k disk with a Atmos logo on the back. I've talked about this topic several times and I prefer Auro 3D Upmixing over Atmos.

[@thatsentertainment5602]

I found that DTS Neural X was much better, more detailed , much clearer and better sound seperation. Dolby Surround was muddy in various parts of different movies but DTS Neural X was so much more clearer, especially dialogue. Also, the Dolby Surround mode is overused in the rear speakers which can be distracting when watching movies but DTS Neural X the surround audio coming from the rear speakers was not over done. The movies I tested were Star Wars Rise of Skywalker, Tenent, Beverly Hills Cop 3 and Halo TV Series.

[@musicman8586]

Ealan thanks for making a great video. FYI as of March 2023 you no longer have to worry about the Auro 3D Police as Marantz released an update that allows you to keep your system configured with ceiling speakers and still have the option to select Auro 3D as your upmixer. I have (4) ceiling speakers with tilting cones and they work great with Auro 3D. Also on DTS:X tracks you won't see the Auro 3D option with Marantz unless you change your Blu-ray player from bitstream to PCM.

[@ealanosborne]

Thanks for the heads up!

[@nunocampos1805]

You could technically try those dts:x track with auro if you output them as pcm 7.1 from your player. Give it a go and get back to us. Or even better, also output atmos tracks as pcm 7.1 and do a comparison of all 3 up-scalers to see which one sounds better and put more info on the height channels with both audio formats.

[@egyptianplayers1]

Very good video! I tried the same as you. I have a 7.2.4 system with Denon 6700H and I had to trick the receiver as you did to get AURO 3D to work. I used to watch movies in DTS neural X more than ATMOS because atmos implementation in movies is generally poor. On the other hand, DTS X is the greatest uncompressed format I tried. AURO 3D and DTS neural X are great options to get sound from inceiling speakers. I always use one of them for 5.1 movies and even for ATMOS movies. They are just better so I recommend that if you have AURO 3D capable receiver that you enable it. If you don't just use the DTS upmixer it will sound better.

[@tedsalvilla6355]

Great insights! Love it! Yeah will consider Auro 3D in my next RCV upgrade.

[@SqueamishPuppet]

I have tried this and last night. I was watching the 2002 Spiderman and I was still in Auro. There were some really weird things going on in the surrounds and I had to switch it to Atmos and it sounded much better.

[@ealanosborne]

Yeah, I’m sure it doesn’t work for everything, since it’s an upmixer and not a perfect translation. But to have the option available is great! 🤘

[@robertrudolph2589]

With the 7015 I could add an 100 W sperate stereo amp and power all 4 hight speakers. More power to height really boost the volume, combined with the large speakers in ceiling. I also I have always used a larger center speaker than the 2 front speakers. Get more sound for the voice. No volume control for each speaker with the Marantz ? My old 4 channel Marantz has control for 4 speakers.

[@mikeortiz2139]

Doing real work for the rest of us. I've been wanting a creator tackle this. And this is just one movie and not even the right speaker layout. Thanks.

[@infiniteuniverse9528]

The real $49 question is which Attmos up-mixing provides better immersion, the Denon and Marantz' Auro 3D or Sony's 360' Reality Audio w Spatial Sound Mapping?

[@ealanosborne]

Hmmmm…tough choice! 🤔

[@infiniteuniverse9528]

@@ealanosborne lol. Yea, I know it's a tuff choice that why I'm asking. Which is better for a area that won't allow for proper Atmos speaker placement and can provide the better up-mixing immersion? Been hearing good things about both Auro 3D and Spatial Sound Mapping.

[@infiniteuniverse9528]

@@ealanosborne i'm looking to buy either the Sony 5000 or the Denon 3800 in the next few months. I'm leaning towards the Denon because of the Auro 3D upscalling from stereo and Dirac option. But that Sony keeps calling to me in my sleep, "Buy me, wrap yourself in my Spatial Sound Mapping my love.." It's the 4th qrt Mr Osborne, I'm counting on you for a definitive opinion. Let me know what you decide soon and Thank you..

[@ealanosborne]

@@infiniteuniverse9528 I still think the x3800h has a leg up on the AZ5000EZ since you might find yourself wanting 4 subwoofers at some point. Maybe not, but you never know, so it’s nice to have that option available without having to get another AVR. That and the option of Dirac Live. Otherwise, they’re pretty comparable.

[@infiniteuniverse9528]

@@ealanosborneGood stuff Mr Osborne! Great point about the upgradability of the 3800 able to use 4 subs each with their own separation. Dirac is big, plus the ability to assign those top speakers with Auro 3D as Height speakers to get an Atmos signal to come thru those tops. Prolly will get the 3800, the cheapest I found it was for $1,699.00. Unless you know somewhere cheaper with your connections? 'Preciate all the help you've provided sir, keep up the great vids!

[@KiterSuperfly]

Interesting video! It is my understanding that ATMOS would sound great with height speakers instead of overhead mounting, but they have to recommend overhead only due to patent issues. Speakers in an ATMOS movie theatre are height mounted as far as I have seen. Also, I have read that there are ‘static’ and ‘dynamic’ ATMOS mixes? That would make a good video exploration!

[@nucks4cup75]

Don't forget, those height speakers in a movie theatre are 20 feet in the air. Closest way to really stimulate that in a home theatre is with ceiling mounted speakers. Of course heights do work but ceiling mounted is still closer to the theatre experience.

[@VonMagXL]

Atmos has supported Height speakers since Day 1. They are actually separate speaker locations, but most AVRs (save Storm and Trinnov) don't support both at once and so the renderer simply moves sounds intended for one to the other (more accurately it marks Tops as the Height coordinates instead of 25% into the room). 45 degrees elevation is considered Height OR Tops by Dolby so it's advantageous to select Heights as you'll not only get the Auro-3D options, but DTS:X won't send height sounds into the bed speakers. I'm using Heights + Tops here at the same time (8 overhead speakers) and it's smooth as it can be and images across the entire 24 foot long ceiling.

[@baronbob6971]

Hey, I got a X8500H with Auro 13.1 in my livingroom. I can recomend to optimize your room acoustically. Because the Auromatic is trying to reproduce natural reflections from the environment it is sensitive to reflections in your room. Especially from the hights. So having absorbers on the ceiling for the front hights and 3d-defusers for the rear hights at the first reflection points makes a huge difference. Yet alone having your room acoustically optimized makes a huge difference in general. I would say especially with surround systems. Everything is more precise, directional and cleaner because the soundsources interfere ewith ach other less. Also dont be afraid to try out max settings for Auro. After much trying and listning for about an year now I have dialed in MOVIE at 16 all the time for music and movies. But only after I put the acoustical elements on the wall and ceiling. Also, I always thoght that the DTSX mix of Jurassic Park was great but only as long I found out that I could send the mix as PCM and used the auromatic.The angel of the concept is just completely diffrent from the object based system of Atmos and DTSX. If the room is right than Auro is audionirvana for me.

[@ealanosborne]

Awesome! Thank you very much for your insight!

[@kman9387]

AURO 3D POLICE!! OPEN UP!! 😂🤣😭😂🤣😭 another great Atmos mixed movie is Deepwater horizon 👍👌 AWESOME video as always sir! 👏

[@georgestephens2038]

I have a Marantz 8015, I never thought to try Auro 3d with a Atmos mix, but going forward I will try it out

[@ealanosborne]

Hell yeah! 🤘

[@Snskch3]

I just put some outdoor speakers up for my height/ceiling speakers. Large. But so much louder than my crappy (Dolby atmos) speakers. And so far I am liking the Auro 3D much better. Benefits of the outdoor speakers is they are large sounding but they have brackets to put up and make it much easier to install in the ceiling. But it’s my man cave theater so if I like it, it goes.

[@ealanosborne]

That’s not a bad idea at all! 🤘

[@raulgutierrez1501]

I did the same when setting up my system. Now you and I have the versatility of moving or angling the speakers. In-ceiling is too restrictive. In-ceiling is a no go for me!

[@FURognar]

I hope you know that changing your ceiling channels from Top-Front and Top-Rear, to Front Height and Rear Height changes how Dolby Atmos renderer processes them. Thats why they were mostly silent during that scene. Have you tried playing that same scene when your ceiling channels are processed as Tops instead of Heights?

[@ealanosborne]

I sure have. Same result. 👍

[@stallebrass]

Would I be right is suggesting that Auro3D might argue that the increased output in the height channels is a representation of diffused reflected sound from the scene... whereas Atmos doesn't take reflections into account as it's hyper focused on object based sound?

[@ealanosborne]

That’s basically the difference between the two, yeah. Auro 3D elevates all sound (and is still channel-based), whereas Atmos takes into account the speaker layout and tries its best to place objects within that 3D space. So one could argue that Atmos should be a better representation or more accurate mix, but I personally prefer the grand scale that an Auro 3D upmix provides. 🤷‍♂️ With the theater room I’m currently building, I’ll finally have a Voice of God speaker (directly above me), so I’ll see how that also elevates the listening experience. Stay tuned! 😁🤘

[@prashantprem1]

@@ealanosborne voice of god speakers start giving headache after few days, believe me.

[@sumanvigrahala859]

I experienced the same elevated experience from my heights dolby surrounds when switched to Auro 3D… but observed subtle differences (less surround sounds) with ear level surrounds (left, right & back left & right) Great demonstration!!

[@byronhadley9662]

What a great video! My next receiver will be Auro 3D capable for sure!

[@versus023]

I’m waiting for my denon 6700h that I should receive next week. I don’t know if I’ll set it up in this current setup as we are moving in the next couple months, and don’t want to buy/or make speakers, setup them, then move and do it all again. But I can’t wait to hear auto 3D upmixer. Also, in my next room, I will not put invoking as it’s seems like a hassle to install. Will probably make some surround myself using eminence driver.

[@ealanosborne]

Good luck, man! And congrats on the move! New beginnings! 😎

[@mrdouglas5482]

Thanks very much for showing the whole world,Dolby Atmos content is not mixed up there,I have 4 heights just like you and I feel the same way .

[@badgastein2]

Good work - you confirmed my experience too.

[@VonMagXL]

Auro-3D's upmixer is more of a copy/reverb system, although I have read in an interview that it does consider HRTF information in the signal to decide the balance, but I can't seem to verify that in actual practice. Neural X uses a combination of DTS' former NEO6 mode that slices audio into frequency based packets to distribute them to appropriate speakers and Neural Surround's upmixer that they purchased and modified both together to figure out which sounds most likely go above and below. It's very good at simulating an Atmos-like soundtrack from a 5.1 or 7.1 source. It doesn't do as well with 2-channel sources. In my experience, the best 2-channel upmixer is/was Lexicon's Logic 7. I bought a used Lexicon MC-1 off eBay to use with my Atmos AVR's 7.1 channel input mode (sadly many AVRs no longer support a 7.1 RCA input mode) and I'd take Logic 7 over an overhead mixer simply because it works so well, particularly with music (far better than Auro-3D's upmixer, IMO).

[@ealanosborne]

Thanks for the info!

[@justinianpescador280]

That was brilliant I thoroughly enjoyed this

[@MrNorcal81]

Compared to sub-par Atmos tracks, using Neural:X is very good. Auro 3D is very similar but just a bit better most of the time. With an Atmos track that is properly engineered, like it is in No Time to Die,native ATMOS is just fine but with those "Atmouse" Disney soundtracks, for instance, Auro 3D appears to be the ticket.

[@bmwberto8055]

Just wondering if you went into the surround parameters in an auro up mix and adjust the aggressiveness of the upmix

[@kstofkos]

We only listen to movies in Auro 3D. Denon AVR X6700H

[@andypeterson1302]

New x6700h owner here. Are you saying all movies all movies, meaning DTS:X and Dolby Atmos, or just upmixing with Auro 3D when those object based formats are not available?

[@kstofkos]

@andypeterson1302 well, at that time I was because the dolby didn't sound nearly as good. Turns out that my amazon fire cube that sends the signal to the AVR was in the wrong setting. I changed the fire cube setting to dolby and now we hear so much more surround and atmos.

[@jamesdavisjr1086]

Great video. I am now waiting on my Marantz 7015 to make it to my door, because I want auro 3d, I 've been saying for a while that atmos just doesn't cut it. I feel like where being dooped into all this atmos stuff and they don't mix it the way it should be mixed for home consumption.

[@MrPninja]

I have the exact Av receiver as you, and I pretty much just use Auro3-D as my speakers are set up for all three anyway

[@Selene_M3]

Very interesting especially for those of us who haven't added height channels yet or a receiver that can yet.

[@ottoburgess1555]

Wow, I have an SR6015 and did not know I could do that! I just got some in ceiling speakers to install. So, I was going to try a 7.2.2 set up.

[@ealanosborne]

Ooo…the SR6015 actually doesn’t have Auro 3D. 😬 The 7015 and 8015 do. But the SR6015 has DTS Neural X, so there’s that at least, for some experimenting! 😊

[@jordanmillraney5481]

The reason why we aren’t hearing anything in the height channels within a native Atmos mix when John gets into a fight with the motorcyclists is because all that sound is supposed to be heard in the lower channels. The three upmixers try to make it sound discrete to the height channels. I should mention that some 5.1 or 7.1 movies do sound good with any upmixer. Other movies already sound good and don’t need an upmixer for them. It’s really personal preference on which upmixer is better for that purpose.

[@JingoLoBa57]

I wonder if your calibration sets up the balance between the elevated and ear level channels well enough. Do you need to recalibrate each format? As I understand you didn’t use a VOG speaker?

[@adamjj85]

Great testing! Although, I wonder what the Dolby upmixer would do to a native DTS-X track since you are essentially comparing a native mix vs. upmixing. I'm assuming you would have a similar experience where there is more synthesized sound with the Dolby upmixer than the DTS-X native mix. I would say the same for testing with a native Auro mix, but as we know, they are basically non-existent in the US...

[@glennhealion5325]

Hello Elan Enjoying all your videos. With regards to your Auro 3D experience,I'm sure if you tried putting 2 front and 2 rear height speakers temporarily in place close to the ( correct )positions as opposed to using your 4 four in ceiling speakers ,you'd have an even better Auro 3D experience. The Auro 3D speaker positioning set up is actually very flexible, however the 4 in ceiling speaker as required in Atmos is a definite no no. Unfortunately that set up will not do justice to an Auro 3D upmix. 😕. It would be great to see another vlog from you with, as an example 2 front and 2 rear SVS prime elevated or your Klipsch reference "compact" speakers on your front and rear walls. At approximately a 30 downward angle. And maybe try an Auro upmix from straight PCM . Anyways keep the vlogs coming,I'm enjoying all of them.👍 Cheers Glenn Aussie expat Thailand 🙏

[@ealanosborne]

Thanks, Glenn! 🤘

[@jelmerkroeke1120]

Question; if a movie supports all formats, and can you let you reciever choose the best option, and wat Will it chooses dolby atmos of drs-x, dts neural x

[@ealanosborne]

DTS-X I personally prefer, but I know that’s not the case for everyone

[@kevonmanuel]

Well, I upgrade my Denon X6200W to Auro3D ($200). So far, it's good. It all depends on the movie. At this writing, I'm watching Pacific Rim (Blu-ray). The upmixing sound really. good. I have the Auro-Matic 3D Preset, set to Large and 3D Strength maxed to 16. I don't know if my mind is playing tricks on me, but I get the impression that Auro-Matic works better with the higher sample rates of audio from Bluray/UHD discs compared to lossy streaming from Vudu/Apple TV.

[@ealanosborne]

I don’t think your mind is playing tricks. Always expect Blu-ray/UHD audio to be better. 😁🤘

[@kevonmanuel]

Anyone who lies to an audio receiver to get what they want is unethical and should never be trusted. 😁 I fully agree, when you buy extra speakers, wires, amplifiers, etc for Atmos and for them to be hardly used, it's freaking upsetting. I can care less about the "Director's intent". I demand the following: 1: All movies to be shot in true 4k and not upscaled from 2k. I want the image to pop. 2: HDR - I want to be blinded. 3: 3D - give me the gimmick of stuff popping out of the screen 4: Atmos - I want discrete sound coming for every speaker 90% of the time. 5: No more black bars. TVs are in 16:9 so give us movies to fill the entire screen. 6: No more 24fps movies. Gemini man 60/120 fps movies.

[@ealanosborne]

So unethical, I know! 🤣

[@psyphonyxaudio]

Haha.. nice.

[@o.c.g.m9426]

🤣🤣🤣 facts tho Makes those demands brother

[@David25522]

I totally agree with you Kevon!

[@habiburrehamanshaik6146]

As always very informative video. You are making my purchase decisions way more easy, I can easily short list what is needed for me and rule out unnecessary options! Keep up the good work and you look tiered try to get good rest 😁👍🏻

[@byronquinley1400]

Maybe a silly question, but do we want motorcycle sounds coming from above us when they’re on the same horizontal plane as we are??

[@ealanosborne]

Reflections of motorcycle sounds, sure! To give it a broader sense of scale and 3D immersion

[@byronquinley1400]

Like when you drive under and overpass. Got it, makes sense!!

[@AniruddhaThombare]

Knock knock. Auro 3D police here. Awesome video, bro! Couple of suggestions based on different layouts I listened to: Auro 3D upmixing or auro native... sounds best in layout specified by Auro folks. I tried similar white lies and didn't see any differences in the upmixers, when the layout was DD specified (45 degrees or and down firing) . It went to another level for Atmos once I physically changed the layout to Auro 3D specs. And in the same layout, Auro was just exhilarating experience! Atmos / X were nowhere near. Please , try that layout. Thanks for your videos and expressionless jokes (Deadpan? 😬)

[@michaelmoxley7787]

Wow man I feel like you are in my head. I slaved to get my in ceiling speakers installed. Perilous 1ft blown in insulation and nail ridden nightmare coupled with drenching sweat crawl space and claustrophobia. But my obsession for in ceiling speakers prevailed. I have a cathedral ceiling so I turn up the in ceilings 4db. I have also found that upmixing helps. I also tend to upmix 5.1 too. I mean like you said we don't work our ass off for nothing here. I'm curious what the difference would be in John wick 3 scene to choose 5.1 on disc then upmix using dolby + surround upmixer.. I mean can dolby upmixer do better than a poor native mix? Anyway I do like neural X better I think. And Auro 3D seems similar.

[@keepitshema]

Heya!😊 would recommend a processor with auro 3d ? Emotiva mc1 seems to be the good choice but unfortunately doesn’t support auro 3d. So maybe better go with denon x3800h ? Thanks!😊 and keep going you’re doing great job!

[@ealanosborne]

Yeah, the x3800h is one of the least expensive AVRs right now that supports Auro 3D. You’ll be spending a lot more if you get a preamp that supports Auro 3D, unfortunately. ☹️

[@iansteventon4221]

Hey Elan, got my new avr on Monday ( denon 6700h) and listened to auro 3d for the 1st time , really impressed and sounds better than most atmos films , i watched world war z blu ray on 5.2.4 . Awesome.. would love the vog channel added , but my Mrs would put my dinner in the trash and my dog in the oven so that's a no go

[@ealanosborne]

Haha! Yeah, when I first had VOG, I wasn’t all the impressed, but perhaps I wasn’t demo-ing the right material. 🤷‍♂️ But congrats on that upgrade! 🎉

[@gremlinsmiter]

Thanks for the informational video! Do you know if the auro-3D upmixer will upmix Dolby Digital mixes to involve the height channels on streaming platforms (Netflix, hbomax, Hulu, amzn, etc)? Thanks again!

[@ealanosborne]

It should be able to upmix anything you throw at it from a 5.1 mix and up! 🤘

[@ealanosborne]

@@hino823 Not by itself, no. I ended up going with a Marantz SR7015 not JUST because of Auro, but for other reasons, too. So it’s personal preference, for the most part. But I REALLY do enjoy the fact that I have more options now, and not limited to just Atmos. 👍

[@CptaiNPogo]

LOL @ Auro3D police! Happy to hear you got a chance to hear Auro3D Ealan! It is by far my favorite audio format. Just curious though, what level and size did you set your Auro? I have it on level 15 on Cinema.

[@onepurpose315]

It’s time for another video like this, this time using 7.1 pcm and comparing dts neural vs Dolby surround

[@chrisj9008]

You really need the height at 30 degrees for auro3d. It's how the ear localized and positions . I found my atmos mode sounds better that way as well. The one thing auro3d will show you is if you have weak hieghts speakers. So many under sell the important dynamic speakers to handle the height program.

[@ealanosborne]

Some day! That’s the ultimate goal!

[@paulrevere1479]

Atmos is the most accurate. Why would you hear motorcycle sounds above you when the sounds are coming from the ground or at least chest level??

[@baronbob6971]

Because you would also hear reflections in real life. Auro does not simply place sounds in the heights. It trys to estimate the direction and also the natural reflections of the environment.

[@patbarney5611]

Love your vids Ealan, you're very funny. my first comment so i'll keep it short, i'm just entering home theatre and have a 5.2.2 setup (top front) with Denon avr-750h. Really enjoying the atmos. i mounted 2 bookshelves on the ceiling for my atmos. My next avr will be for 5.2.4, if the boss approves. Thanks again Ealan, looking forward to trying Auro 3D someday.

[@teddoherty8325]

Would having short ceilings (say a home theater in a basement) make a difference?

[@ealanosborne]

Yeah, it helps, just so the soundstage is more compact in all three dimensions.

[@RADCOMJ1]

Like your channel bruv it's entertaining (but not overly so) as well as informative. I knew the auro police joke was coming but it still made me really laugh ..props😂 I have been pondering this very subject, and it seems many people agree with you. The atmos tracks can be very subtle probably because the movie people are not throwing money at the mix as compared with the digital transfer😮 keep up the good work subscribed.thanks.It really cool how most of the community even the competition per se are supportive...a bit like athletics and rugby as opposed to football (thats soccer to you guys across the atlantic😊)

[@ealanosborne]

Thank you very much for the kind words! And welcome to the madness!

[@Geenbullshit]

A lot of the same talk about which format is better or placements and wrong immersive sounds experience with upmixing, cool!. But IMO searching for the Real VOG experience is a lot of reading in comments but a hard way 2 get good answers 🥴. That topic is for me the key to implementing a speaker that's waiting to be useful.

[@samridhsantosh9947]

How you enable upmixer ? Because i have new marantz cinema 50, it doesn’t show Atmos to Auro movie mode conversion for streaming apps. But i see for bluray atmos true hd tracks.

[@randolfobasilio7654]

i`m lookted for this comment on the internet because i have the same feeling, now dolby atmos has upmixer on the own sofware on PC and the experience its much better and imersive, the room its way more fully completed with audio, much better

[@robertrudolph2589]

I just purchase and sr7015 with extra amp for height 2. Also 4k Panasonic DP-UB9000. My Speakers : Installing four 8" 2 way ceiling speakers inside the ceiling. The room is 20' x 14' 8 foot celling. Klipsch speakers. 11 speakers total. I have over 100 4k Blu ray movie discs. Should I go to Streaming ? or both ? Never done streaming before, always 4k disc, like owning the movies.

[@ealanosborne]

Wow! I’m jealous of that incredible setup! With a serious 4K collector like yourself, you might want to look into Zappiti or Kaleidescape which are bit perfect streaming options, so you don’t lose quality. 👍 Othrwise, I think Apple TV 4K is one of the best streaming devices.

[@robertrudolph2589]

@@ealanosborne Streaming is compressed then un-compressed. 4K disc not. No discussion about this. Censoring by youtube like covid info ?

[@diegohernanmaza]

First like 😁 thanks for making awesome content, have a great day Mr Ealan!

[@OwlStudio73]

Well said..due to production cost and pure laziness there are terrible atmos mixes if any at all..you’d be lucky to hear 10mins of the ceiling speakers throughout the whole atmos certified movie..and if you’re considering soundbars and upfiring speakers…forget it..it’s all a marketing bs..I have the the ceiling speakers install and almost always set it to neutral x for the full immersion

[@gowthamk5392]

Im having 5.1.2 set up in living room!! Planning to do a dedicated room fr this set up which is 8*14 feet room!?! Is tht set will be too much loud in that space!?! Or can set up in that?! Hving bookslfs onl no tower spkrs!!

[@ealanosborne]

Yeah that should do fine In a room that size. 👍

[@gowthamk5392]

@@ealanosborne thanks 👨‍🏫

[@baycchief3785]

So, basically you can just copy the signals and amplify them wherever you would like to place the speakers at? For example, with the Center channel, instead of using the VoG speaker, i can duplicate the center channel's signal and amplify it with that VoG speaker. So, if Auro 3D is taking the sounds from the ears level and say "duplicate" and amplifying it above your head you can actually carry that out without needing the upmixing software application unless what Auro 3D sound designer is truely intended for the sounds that were supposed to sound at and above your head. A concert hall could literally have hundreds of speakers going around - i'm pretty sure all of these signals were replicated and distributed so in the sense the concept of Auro 3D sound is still largely depended on how it was originally formatted with the intention of producing the sounds that they are meant to be at and above our head (not everything).

[@2romes945]

I have a Denon AVR-X8500HA . I had to change not only the amp assignment but also the speaker configuration in order to get AURO 3D. It took me a lot of wasted time to figure that out. I have 7 on wall speakers, 6 in ceiling speakers and a sub, 13.1 setup. I I’m disappointed that Atmos is not as engaging as AURO 3D. Like you stated, going through all the work installing in ceiling speakers 🔊 you definitely want to hear them play on movies and music. Seems like the Dolby Atmos crew is not putting the effort in the top speakers on a lot of movies and that is ashamed because 4K movie cost a lot money and we should expect better, more expanded audio field with 4K movies.

[@ealanosborne]

I hear ya. Atmos was cool when it first became a possibility (the movie Gravity, for example), but now that it’s expected for anything new on all streaming platforms and 4K Blu-Ray releases, the money and manpower is stretched far too thin. Sad.

[@castro619a]

The biggest letdown with atmos is Rougue one. At the last scnene when they are trying to disable the shield, they are on a cat walk and there’s planes flying everywhere, but atmos is only playing music….

[@jordanmillraney5481]

Does the subwoofer volume change when using DTS Neural:X or Auro3D upmixer?

[@ealanosborne]

Not that I recall. Although it’s been some time. I do need to revisit these tests. 😀

[@craigpaske9351]

Two to six overhead speakers, as in Atmos, never made sense to me. In nature, very few sounds emanate from overhead. This is why I never fell into the Atmos hype and installed speakers in my ceiling. I've had an Auro 3d configuration since before Atmos was concocted. A lot of people rushed to the Atmos craze like lemmings. For the occasional overhead sounds, I have installed the Auro3D "Voice of God" single speaker. By the way, Auro3D works well with older movie soundtracks and dialog.

[@joker927]

Are there any lists of movies with crap height channel mixes? I also want my work for my heights to be worth it but only after watching a movie do I realize the Atmos track was absent and I should have used an upmixer instead

[@ealanosborne]

Huh…not that I’m aware of. But that might be a good archival type of website. www.crappyatmosmixes.com or something 😄

[@melraine919]

Too True! Splendid demo & info 👍✌👊✊💪..................... UK

[@usmankhalid990]

Hi Ealan, revisiting this video and I had a quick question, now that you’re using a processor for your setup, do you prefer the processors take on atmos tracks vs. Auro 3D upmixing?

[@ealanosborne]

I’ll have to get back to you on that one. Just like your revisiting, I also need to revisit this topic now that I have a dedicated home theater. 😄

[@usmankhalid990]

@@ealanosborne sounds good, looking forward to your thoughts!

[@robyins]

Great test!! the only thing when use AURO 3d or DTS:X you are upmixing the 5.1/7.1 track. You cannot upmix Atmos since is object based. I tried a scene from 6 underground when at beginning the airplane goes up from the water and you lose that sound with the upmixer. But it is true that 6 undeground has really few Atmos effect on the high channels and the sound much better with Upmixer.

[@frgggggdsedd6913]

Where are your in ceiling speakers? Are they mid top and rear?

[@ealanosborne]

At the time they were front and rear top in-ceiling speakers.

[@robertrudolph2589]

None of the video's show where they get their input. I do drywall so I build cabinets in the ceiling for the 4 ceiling Large speakers for ceiling build cabinets in the ceiling and boost the volume.

[@robertrudolph2589]

What is your input ? Streaming if so which company. Or 4 K Blu ray ?

[@ealanosborne]

4k Blu-ray 👍

[@gowthamk5392]

Oh then investing in a 7.1 chnl receiver is a waste wit height channels?!?😭😭 but in auro 3d the objective sounds which r heard at ear levels r upmixed to height!!! Is that affect the object realisation ?!! Doubt!!!

[@prabhuveleie]

Auro 3d works great for me for all the content I watch only thing is we need to properly set at 30 degree with equal powered bookshelf speakers for front and rear heights and I use a marantz av7706 , since it is an av separate I feel the sound is more open in auro 3d at higher volumes

[@ealanosborne]

I bet! Separates should be the goal of any home theater enthusiast/junkie (haha!), so I have no doubt that improves Auro 3D even more, as well as the optimal speaker layout. 🤘

[@prabhuveleie]

Very true

[@frgggggdsedd6913]

What if my receiver doesn’t have Aura 3d but supports Neural X should I upgrade to Aura 3d receiver?

[@ealanosborne]

If there are other features that are an upgrade from what you have now - and it also happens to support Auro 3D? Go for it. But I wouldn’t upgrade an AVR JUST for Auro 3D. 🤷‍♂️

[@frgggggdsedd6913]

@@ealanosborne ok thanks I found a used 3600h for 600$ canadian which is a steal but not a steal if Aura 3D is that much better than atmos or neural X

[@healthynutster]

I hear a lot about “Director’s Intent”, but the truth is, many mixes are done as rapidly and inexpensively as possible. The result: a lot of poorly mixed Atmos films. Humans don’t have ears on the top of their heads (or the back of their heads), so it should be evident this is not the best place to put speakers. I’m happy to see reviewers verifying when there is actual content in the overhead speakers and when there’s not, making this clear. We’re all invested in surround tech, but in too many instances, the Atmos content is lacking. I’m happy that there’s an alternative in Auro 3D and DTS:X. In a free market economy, competition is good for the consumer

[@ealanosborne]

Exactly! No more monopolies! I want competition all day every day. 😁🤘

[@HNHREVIEWS]

Informative, Aura 3D police, was funny

[@mattpipke5716]

So, Elan. I bought the x3700h Denon before I knew what Auro 3d was, it is not included in the 3700h only the 4700 and up. It would cost me an extra 500.00 to get the 4700 plus an additional 200 to activate the auro 3d because although it is supported in SOME avr's it is not just automatically available, you have to pay an extra fee for it. Now in my case, I have dts: neural X and atmos and of course DTS:X MA, so for me, I think rather than pay an extra fee for auro when I already have neural X for free would be a mistake. It seems as though they neural X and Auro 3d were pretty similar when tested. When I was shopping AVR's I did try to get the nicest one I could afford and it just worked out to be the 3700h, even though I didnt know about the Auro 3d thing, I still wasnt willing to pay the extra money for the small differences from the 3700h to the 4700h. I guess it would be neat to have it but is it worth 200.00 extra or in my case 700.00 extra to have it?

[@ealanosborne]

Nah. They’re just different. Is Auro 3D better than Neural X? Some movies yes, some movies no. So I think you’re just fine switching to Neural X if you’re not satisfied with a particular Atmos mix. I hear some people saying that Auro 3D’s algorithm helps a lot of concerts and music in general. So if you’re really into that, maybe Auro 3D should be in your next upgrade? 🤷‍♂️ Otherwise, the X3700H I recommend time and time again, because - just like you said - it’s the least expensive that has 8K, HDMI 2.1, and a full set of pre outs. So it’s a bargain, for sure! 🤘

[@rosshitchins1311]

I have the 4700. It doesn't cost an extra $200 to have it activated. It comes activated already. The older versions of the 4xxxx series did have to have it activated, but that was changed with the 4700. It comes fully activated. No extra costs.

[@mattpipke5716]

@@rosshitchins1311 I didn't know that you didn't have to pay the 200.00 extra so then the obstacle is the 3700h cost me 1215.00 shipped. The only reason to get the 4700 would be auro3d. But price wise. I'd be paying and extra 500.00 for the privilege of using auto 3d and 5 to 10 watts more power. Since I'll he using emotive power amps anyway then really the only gain for keeping would he auro3d If I had. I'd try it. But to pay the added cost just for auro3d to me isn't worth it. I wanted to get the 4700, but I had to draw the line somewhere and the compromise for me was either on the avr or the subs. I had my heart set on two subs and I wanted SVS so that only left the avr as a place where I could save some money. If I could have, I would have bought the Marantz version of the 8500 but. Money is a factor and we have to work with what we have. Not knocking auro3d just saying in my case it wasn't worth the added cost when I look at my budget and over all goals for my home theater. I ended up with something that I am super happy with, a 7 2.4 on a 3700h. 77 cx. Series x. And 2 svs pb 1000 pro subs The only thing I'm missing is auro3d

[@rosshitchins1311]

@@mattpipke5716 Correct on all accounts. The 3700 is a very good receiver. Your whole system looks to be great. Good luck.

[@twistedmetal2290]

If you want a cheap gem. Try blast on 5.1.2 Dolby atmos soundbar for $400 over at walmart. Totally worth $400, should be $700+ if it wasn’t for the bad design look I returned my $700 LG Dolby soundbar and put my $500 jbl soundbar in another room after buying . Crystal clear while still having deep loud bass at the same time , hear every word , raindrop , footstep , crunch , everything at every volume unlike the jbl 5.1which cancel out words and detail.

[@noisyneighbornextdoor]

Good job bro

[@chipmunk6386]

Nice 👍

[@John-ok8ts]

I don't have auro3d but this is why I don't like DTS neural x. It places effects and sounds in the heights when they shouldn't be compared to what is on the screen. Yea you get more sound but it's wrong.

[@prashantprem1]

I too was thinking the same. There are no need of effects to be in height channel, which are not meant to be there.

[@kixxoff928]

It's editor's lazyness not to mix anything into hight channels AURO 3D is BEST!

[@JingoLoBa57]

Upmixed vs Auro3D native tracks are not the same. Even native Auro3D movies can sound marginally better using the upmixer. Interesting experiments.

[@therealcaesar]

Hi there. This is the AURO-3D police speaking. Our feedback is.... "We forgive you"

[@ealanosborne]

😄🎉

[@segaboy128]

Hollywood sound engineers often fail with true atmos sound mixes, its so odd. U compared true atmos vs neural x and auro up mixers so thats not actually fair comparison. (Since the movie track was not well mixed) Run the movie as 5.1 or 7.1 and use DSU and i bet it sounds better. Upmixers save the day when the sound mixers fail us.

[@H0kieJoe]

They're on a suspension bridge. Not much overhead acoustic ambience in a scene like that. There's little to bounce from except intermittent bridge structure. Perhaps a temporary bounce from the framework would have been interesting, but I've no interest in adding effects that aren't in the mix. Opinions and all that.

[@Bikes-guitars]

A good video thank you, personally I have been extremely disappointed with Atmos, perhaps that being unkind to Atmos as a format and the main problem is with the sound engineers doing a poor job when mixing the soundtrack for Atmos movies, like yourself I have put 120 hours build time into creating my theatre and I want to feel I haven’t wasted my money on those height speakers which is how it feels wit All Atmos discs, however switching back to DTS Master audio with Neural X I’m extremely surprised at how my Denon 4800 upmixes to provide height channels that destroy Atmos mixed discs, even the bed layer speakers sound better with greater dynamic range, either Atmos as a format sucks or the sound engineers for every Atmos disc should be ashamed of their work 🤷‍♂️

[@Macroproxy]

After many debates, I'm still convinced most of the time Dolby Atmos is a lie, a joke, and complete marketing. The main issue lies in that to get the best adoption/traction, Dolby made it too easy for the studios to skip all the "object-based" advatantages and functionality and slap a logo on it. DTS:X is far superior IMO and I've yet to come across anything DTS:X that disappointed in "object-based" terms. I think some of the Fast and Furious movies are a little poor mixing, but the format still works as it should. I think Auro3D can be great too, but it limits your speaker configuration for sure. You don't have the ability to run a setup that isn't specific to their pre-determined layout. But without a doubt it sounds great with Native Auro3D content and that setup. I'm just a little partial to a proper object-based technology capable of rendering the soundstage as best as possible with whatever speaker configuration you can give it rather than Auros channel-based format.

[@thomastv914]

My lay-man opinion: I would argue Atmos is technically superior to any other current system. The object based system has unlimited potential. However it requires better and more specifically tailored audio designs, which seems to be a manual tedious process. So far few studios will spend the time (money) to figure out exactly what sounds should go where, and managed to produce these tracks. Decent Atmos soundtracks are currently few and far between (Aug 2022). Also, the Atmos "up-firing" scam is ridiculous. No sound can bounce well enough for that. Also the height vs ceiling speaker dilemma doesn't seem to have been solved yet. Which is better? We need better audio files to evaluate. Until that happens the spatial (upmix a.k.a 'fake') options (Auro, DTS, DTS-X etc.) will effectively take various sounds and effects and output them from height or simulated height speakers and create sounds, which will appear to enhance the audio experience. Fair enough, but hardly the best that can be done.

[@Macroproxy]

@@thomastv914 To my knowledge there is nothing Atmos can do that DTS:X can't do, and my argument is that DTS does it better. DTS:X is also object-based.

[@thomastv914]

@@Macroproxy I love all DTS, even if my LG GX doesn't support it. I understand that Atmos uses extra meta data, and you say DTS-X also adds data to deliver the extra effects. DTS-X it's not just an up-mix. However it is currently 'only' virtual sounds being pushed to the height/ceiling speakers, correct? But I learn that DTS-X Pro will add more data, to utilize the actual height speakers. That should be exciting.

[@Macroproxy]

@@thomastv914 No. DTS:X is full on mixed object-based audio just as Atmos is. Superior audio mixes when you can find the content in DTS and superior tech. DTS:X Pro expands the number of speaker positions supported in the home. The virtualization or 'upmixing' is done by Neural similar to Dobly Surround. DTS:X does technically use its Neural subsystem in the processing of native data, but it's not upmixing in this fashion... it's part of the decoder.

[@carlosmchenry1757]

Yes for sure 😅

[@lawrence09151]

When you upmix an object based track like Atmos to DTS or Auro you lose the objects

[@talkenrain842]

I guess you could goose the tone controls to get fake base and Treble to juice up the sound but its not the way it was produced. If there are no sounds above, the speakers should be silent. In the same movie, the rain at the beginning is almost exclusively from the ceiling (as it should be). What your suggesting is “fake immersive”. Please don’t lead your listeners to this. It overall hurts the experience.

[@jimcameron1234]

With DTS X you have true STEREO overhead effects unlike with AURO

[@GB-je5tc]

The for sharing your findings Ealan... I could give a cr@% about Artist's intent... For me I ask did it sound realistic, believable? Was it immersive or phony. Thx man...

[@ealanosborne]

Oh yeah, I liked it, for sure! I’m still trying out other movies, to see if it has the same effect as John Wick 3, but I’m enjoying the difference so far!

[@pinchopaxtonsgreatestminds9591]

I heard that Auro 3D has to suggest height speakers else it moves into the copyright realm of Dolby Atmos. Height, and ceiling are one of their differences. Also, an EQ might help to make the height speakers more subtle when upmixing.

[@unnikrishnan3171]

Interesting video,,,,,, india. Kerala

[@unnikrishnan3171]

❤️❤️

[@osbelreyes5252]

Better patch those holes and sell those speaker.