Eclise Alpha fails to teach the player: heres why.

People like complaining about Eclise Alpha, so lets complain about Eclise Alpha for a bit, shall we?
0:00 - Intro
2:03 - Eclise's Design Philisophy
8:41 - The Intro Levels themselves
13:53 - Bug Tiles
19:48 - Conclusions
A sheet of the responses from the Poll (which is not the most extensive and non-biased piece of evidence, use at your own risk): docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
goodpea2's video: • why i'm REMOVING conte...

[@danielflorinduta4713]

The creator is rolling in his bed at night knowing someones dares to say anything other than "best mod ever made by any human being"

[@the1andonlydrmixxel]

​@@RGC_animation That's... the whole point of the comment. That is the joke here. Bruh.

[@erikandnooby3632]

@@RGC_animation r/wooosh

[@boom-wj1gt]

@@the1andonlydrmixxel dammit he deleted comment

[@crizim]

goodpea literally calls you skill issue when you criticize his mod lol. man's a 7 year old

[@TheRandomTitan]

​@@boom-wj1gt what did he say?

[@boxo78]

This is nothing compared to the monstrosity that the warp parties are One thing to mention, plants don't have to be balanced by use rate. Some plants are only good in niche situations and that's totally fine. Eclise tries to compensate that by making lots of niche levels which gets annoying at some point, because you are forced to pick specific plants instead of choosing the niche ones on your own will.

[@dylantoney6971]

rRght? Why can't I see a large niche and pick my favorite strong comp that fits it rather than getting shoehorned into some garbage I didn't play PvZ for?

[@hatster401]

i do kind of like that the game forces you to use plants you wouldnt otherwise use, but it goes a little far

[@SirMendez]

There is an specific level that took me hours.... why?? I played no defense plants to make the game more challenging, but I'm new to the game and I don't know how plants works in this game and that level require using some specific plants yes or yes, and I don't like that

[@RGC_animation]

Warp Parties are made by people who hate PvZ players and want to induce as much suffering as possible.

[@mortmortington240]

i like warp parties as a concept and do like some of them as levels

[@MooseChicken]

I literally had to consult the wiki to beat levels in Eclise because I just had absolutely no idea what to do.

[@fabiaaquino2207]

@@SnaksiXD yeah that pretty true yea,true,pretty true,anyways,pvzh is still underrated.

[@neevko267]

@@fabiaaquino2207 based

[@isitha8255]

@@SnaksiXD pretty much

[@aseldesu]

The discord is upsettingly elitist

[@AreesDaOG]

@@aseldesu a lot of pvz servers are unfortunately

[@BaronB.BlazikenBaronOfBarons]

The sad thing is, I feel the original PvZ2 did this better. It first have a conveyer level with the new plant in the selection pool, then it would be a required pick for the next one, so you could see how it would go with your current strategy. Maybe some other levels were thrown in, but that was the basic setup. Meanwhile, zombies were usually introduced by themselves, or when the player just got the plant that counters them. Plus, the dialogue between Dave and Penny before a level starts informed you about the Plant/Zombie you were about to encounter. That feels much better designed than what’s going on here.

[@mutiiYT]

Honestly i think you are right

[@ShiaTheBunnyGirl]

For a good game that has horrid side modes, vanilla sure does a good enough job introducing plants and zombies.

[@Telogor]

I hate vanilla PvZ2 putting new plants on conveyor belts, because you literally can't access the almanac to find out what the heck they do without exiting the level entirely.

[@awesomehazimex7410]

@Op-gogo besides doesn't Penny and Dave say something before the conveyor level about the new plants

[@Hugo-yz1vb]

@@Telogor No thanks

[@melindamuller4466]

In Eclise, I always end up with one or two sunproducers, one singular "turret" and then just stall and instakills.

[@SnaksiXD]

"Bro it's so easy. Just plant more flowers while the zombies are overwhelming you!" - A GP2 Dickslurping All-Star

[@justsomeguy7080]

@@SnaksiXD "Bro the level starting with a gargantuar is so fun" - a gp2 dick gobbler 3000 discord mod (also known as locke gp2's suggar daddy)

[@LeonardoStupidKenway]

@@SnaksiXD "dickslurping" isn't that sexist and homophobic?

[@mystrallsnowlight]

Sunflower Primal Sunflower T2 Threepeater Potato Mines Stallaria [More Stall or Cheap 'turret] totally related

[@marz9487]

I can just hear DT saying how that's actually the player's fault for being bad and not the game's fault for being designed poorly

[@sekibankilover]

I wish that Eclise eventually realises on how to introduce plants like PvZ1 instead of making an entire level based around this one plant and one plant only.

[@ConfusionUwU]

Which is exactly what pvz1 did?

[@aaroncuameaalvarez3893]

Pvz1 does it well in many ways, puff shrooms are introduced right before the player has to deal with night time where sun is more limited, you get the threepeater in the pool where it excells the most, etc. Most of other plants like garlic and coffee bean are given late but they are mostly designed for the player to figure them out by themselves without forcing them to use them at all, So they can have fun with them.

[@aaroncuameaalvarez3893]

Even vanilla pvz2 does it well too, like when youre introduced to the magnifying grass and the shadow plants, neither are necesary but the game gives you a chance to use them for a bit before you can keep making progress at your own pace.

[@ConfusionUwU]

@@aaroncuameaalvarez3893 That’s also the exact reason why so many pvz1 plants are unused, for example a lot of people think starfruit is bad because it doesn’t attack in its own lane. Scaredy-shroom is another example. Just because eclise poorly made the intro levels doesn’t mean that intro levels are bad in general

[@buzzlightyearpfp7641]

@@ConfusionUwU pvz does it in a soft way.

[@gaidencastro9706]

Maybe an Eclise tier list should be a graph with two spectrums: How situationally a plant is used, and how well it excells in those situations.

[@gaidencastro9706]

Dusk used to deal 3x3 splash damage, but it got reworked and now it can't counter ferrets

[@OO-nn3ny]

I haven't played eclise alpha(the last version I played was eclise beta 1.9), but man, the game seemed to have been redesigned for the worse(like from not bothering with intros to blundering intros of plants & zombies), with mint system and other downgrades.

[@therealcactoos9457]

Like even the title is appropriate! It devolved.

[@mikadosannoji553]

original pvz2 looks better than this

[@SomeGrunt_On_Youtube]

I couldn’t beat one of the levels on ancient Egypt without looking at a video

[@ShiaTheBunnyGirl]

@@mikadosannoji553 Honestly with how bad alpha has been looking for eclise, I’m thinking of sticking with vanilla. It’s not the most balanced but it’s fun and doesn’t require me to look up the solution (Yes, even big wave beach. Just use infinut and rotobagga)

[@draglorr5578]

@@mikadosannoji553 Sadly it kind of does. When an ad-riddled medicorely (and sometimes kind of unfair) microtransaction filled version that has none of the extra time or content dumped into it somehow looks *BETTER* than a heavily worked on mod that adds lots, you would really think they would think they know they screwed up.

[@RGC_animation]

Thank you, someone who isn't just worshipping Eclise blindly!

[@RaphielShiraha64]

To be fair most people that did that was with early versions and before the entire drama started happening.

[@mrluthfians01]

@@RaphielShiraha64 what drama

[@puppytree6343]

@ Raphael and to be even more fair a huge amount of previous fans are aware of eclises sh*t, I even typed in “pvz eclipse” and immediately got “pvz eclise bad” I hope that continues

[@CoralReaper707]

Eclise was always bad We just gaslit ourselves into thinking it was ever good

[@SniperPlayer1515vr]

Playing Eclise, I just wanted something like PVZ1 with more challenge. At a certain point of knowledge the original could be beaten with both eyes closed. I wanted more challenge, more plants to fiddle with, something to engage me. For the most part, Eclise did that. A lot of its early levels were challenging but not impossible to complete. A few times I cheated and used a video, which is vindictive of what soon came. As my casual friend put it: "It just seems like the game spams you with a ton of annoying zombies and you just have to pray." Garg spam, wizard spam, octo spam, all memories from my brain via the mod. I think, like you say in the video, it would be great idea if levels were put as challenges. Where the obvious answer is to use the plant you just unlocked, but it isn't your only answer. With enough knowledge of the game and skill in your strategy, you could make your own solution. Lastly if anyone seeing this has mod suggestions like what I'm after (a more challenging typical pvz experience), please let me know in a reply. Balance is of no concern to me

[@NeoBing]

i think a mod like shallow would work well for you, it's quite slow, uses a 25 sun meta and doesn't really spam zombies.

[@RenShinomiya121]

I suggest playing Reflourished, it's just PvZ2 but improved. New levels instead of reworking all the base games, 2 new worlds and overall more challenging approach to the newly added levels, but is still casually accessible.

[@soldaeternidade]

Well, if you want a PvZ2 mod i could recommend Reflourished. Which is both a good experience for veterans and good for casuals. Or if you are actually willing to play a PvZ1 mod. Play PvZ Plus/Hard Mode or the even harder versions. Brutal Mode, Brutal Mode EX or Brutal Mode EX Plus. (Very creative names). They're PvZ 1 Mods which revisits the entire games, reworks almost all plants and makes the overall game hard (PvZ Plus/Hard Mode is hard but a tiny bit fair, the other ones... They're not meant to be fair, so play them at your own risk or just do as i do, watch youtubers suffer instead of suffering myself lol)

[@jart1984]

Funny thing is that someone had literally beat pvz1 blindfolded lol

[@Stevvvvv]

​@@soldaeternidadeDoes PVZ 2 Reflourished has 25 sun meta? Just askin'

[@hawiebarrientos6369]

Imagine locking the other plants tiering system considering that they are already hard to upgrade due to the lack of coins early game

[@alphabeta3528]

In my vanila f2p run, I saved up to upgrade my fire peashooter to level 4 and the games get wayyy easier afterwards

[@Hugo-yz1vb]

@@alphabeta3528 I already beated the game so I'm side questing in life

[@elfbeaned]

It is to give reasons to play side quests. Idk if it is worth it

[@hawiebarrientos6369]

@@elfbeaned thats kinda fvcked up if you think putting it in a side quest is a good idea considering the difficulties placed behind those quests, might as well do the hard ones on the campaign rather than finishing the quests where you only need the tiering of that certain plant

[@elfbeaned]

@@hawiebarrientos6369 where on this Earth are you on? Side quest levels consists most puzzle levels, you don't even need tierings to play. Ofc, I amnot favored of tierlock, but criticising it by extremely way is just a sort of immature. In the adventure I actually hate levels like 12-6 and 19-8 or some levels that is pure spam pumpkin and hurrikale. Most levels are actually fine to me, they include the element of surprise. If you think that surprise is annoying or a sign of bad level design, then just... screw you. Stop playing while complaining that much

[@stevey1659]

Alpha 4 just came out and from the looks of it, it sucks. So far, I've been liking the first 3 worlds of Eclise Alpha, but now I look at this, I feel like I should just mod this mod. They also removed training room and some costumes :>

[@somerobloxdude3699]

Costumes added alot of charm to the plants so that sucks

[@AJgaming-ce1ln]

@@somerobloxdude3699 not really.

[@RGC_animation]

Well guess I'm not downloading Eclise Alpha 4

[@stevey1659]

@@RGC_animation It was just meant by look, not by play. I was just judging based on appearance. Yes they did remove training room and costumes but its your choice, not mine

[@RGC_animation]

@@stevey1659 But do the new updates outweigh the removed ones? Like what did they add? Because Training Room and Costumes are kinda a big thing.

[@uver2252]

looking back on it, when i was answering the forum the pirate seas level twenty second flashback, (im pretty sure its 14-7) was incredibly confusing for me and literally impossible without toadstool. and gp2 has a real problem with introducing plants like snapdragon, E berry and others in levels where the player is better off simply not using them. i understand that you want to introduce a new plant to the player, but the design of these levels simply hinder their abilty to shine in certain situations where in other levels they would be really valuable.

[@scotterboi9]

And that was the whole point of redoing the mod...

[@skyjack1]

Wouldn’t that level’s issue have been mostly resolved if the plant was just locked into the lineup?

[@elfbeaned]

Snap dragon, E bluberry intro are good one tho. At least there are reasons to use snap dragon

[@wj11jam78]

Would you consider levels with extra win conditions to be minigames, or challenges? I feel like sos, flowers, and mold colonies are challenges. Whereas last stand is more like a minigame

[@Creeps20]

It depends a lot on how they are used. In general, if they are testing standard player skills its a challenge. If its an entirely different approach, its a minigame.

[@gittattle]

The creator of this mod made another mod called Grind Thousand aka GT000. This mod has a lot of the same problems as eclise, not properly teaching the player about new mechanics, and being incredibly unbalanced. Also you don't unlock plants from beating levels. You have to grind coins to unlock nearly any of the plants with the exception of the plants you get from the start. most of the plants cost way too much son, or are incredibly difficult to get. For example: winter melon costs 700 sun in a 25 sun meta. This means you have to collect 28 sun just for one plant that was nerfed

[@ShiaTheBunnyGirl]

WHO WOULD WILLINGLY PLAY A MOD WHERE ALL YOU DO IS FUCKING GRIND.

[@gittattle]

@@ShiaTheBunnyGirl fr, I played it for a while just so I can give a more fair opinion on it. It's so fucking boring. Some of the zombies have really fucking weird mechanics that aren't explained to you when you first see them. The amber head zombie just straight up ignores your plants

[@ConfusionUwU]

Surprise surprise a mod called grind thousand requires you to grind

[@darkcat6530]

I'm genuinly baffled that a mod creator put a grinding element into his game

[@Vini-km4dh]

i mean, the mod is literally called grind thousand, what did you expect...

[@capnbug]

Im kinda sleepy so im like "man wtf is he saying" half the time. This shit wild

[@toxicceoofcharisma]

I thought it was just me 😭

[@purplecrowbar1332]

I’m not sleepy at all and still can’t understand literally anything he’s saying bruh

[@puppetwhisper2472]

@@purplecrowbar1332 lmao same, i forgot what bug tile was and had to go look again

[@BoxxylovesU]

Eclise was too difficult for me. The reason I loved playing Reflourished is because I was able to beat most levels using my favourite plant lightning reed, and comboing with some stalls, some explosives, or magnet shroom. They also give an abundant amount of coins so you could just destroy most zombies instantly, it may have not taught me to strategize but it was really fun.

[@lunatheghost65]

i think with eclise the approach that makes it fun is if you go in, expecting to keep changing up your plant teams personally, i had a lot of fun with it since i made it a point to change up my strategy every level using the same plant team every level gets old really fast that said... 70% of the levels in eclise can be just steamrolled with op plant teams... i asked the devs about nerfing some particularly busted plants but they argued they werent op so idk

[@user-kn2kg3mo1b]

If there's only one way of solving a level then it's just a puzzle, not a strategy game.

[@togarashi6437]

I feel as if GP2 doesn't understand why some plants are underused. Take Parsnip for example. (From Beta 1.8) I never had to use Parsnip because there were better alternatives for a stationary offensive plant that takes over a minute to recharge. Sure, its rush is much stronger than Guac's but it shouldn't be this hard to use. I may have poorly explained this. Like you said, Eclise tries to introduce too much. And even in Beta, I feel as if the introduction levels sometimes mix in with the challenges and minigame levels, which makes it varied, but somewhat inconsistent and jumbled. This is from somewhat who likes beta. I want to make a mod in the future that uses Eclise's ideas (such as world structure and some plant balancing) but without the pitfalls Eclise falls into like its barrier of entry and questionable level design. I know there are better examples from other mods like Altverz but aside from that are there other mods I should try?

[@Someone-uf8ht]

I recommend playing Fallen

[@ARandomSpace]

I think Nightcast has some similarities with Eclise. It's not officially released yet, though.

[@jcartist5881]

dont get me started on how the developer decides to remake an underused plant to be more "specifically useful" when players tend to gravitate towards consistency in performance. Hell even the classic PVZ 1 was fun despite the years and tierings was simply because much of the plants have a consistent niche that isnt too unforgiving to use making it fun and viable whereas Eclise tries so hard to dictate what and what not to use like dude, I'm not trying to play pvz hard mode wherein I need to always be challenged, I just wanna have access to all the cool plants and play the game mindlessly like a simpleton while enjoying SOME challenge

[@ConfusionUwU]

@@jcartist5881 Then go play vanilla pvz2 or something the mod itself literally tells you that you need to use your brain

[@jcartist5881]

@@ConfusionUwU My apologies, did you take offense in my opinion and critique on the developer? Did you even consider trying to see where I am coming from with my feedback? If not, perhaps you should think more before deciding what to say as this is neither constructive or useful. What do you know of game design, balance, and the overall design of what makes a game good or bad in a while subjective but based on solid consistent principles on the foundations of gameplay? Did people not use their brain when they played plants vs zombies 1? Are you implying that easy means not using the brain like its a kaizo designed game? I honestly rather you be concise with your argument and keep it with brevity if you wish to make your point clear. Furthermore, tell me what YOU know about what makes solid game design and when to listen to feedback of the very people playing the game?

[@marz9487]

Eclise's community has to be one of the most pretentious and toxic gaming communities I've ever set foot in. Worse than the Terraria Calamity mod. I left a long time ago but I remember the environment in that server was awful; if it wasn't just praise for the mod, it was almost certain to be just negative. They were really hostile to critics and incredibly impatient with newcomers. I remember a mod complaining about having to guide new players through the process of modding their game like... *bro you're a moderator for a modding community this is what you signed up to do.* DT himself personally banned me because I said "Dick Tree" lmao And you know, I really liked the Eclise mod at first. Once I figured out how to mod the game and started playing, I thought it was very fun and tough, but the game quickly got too complicated for its own good. I think part of their design philosophy was to make every plant present in vanilla reworked to be usable, and to give all of those plants three tiers to work with, which acts to the mod's detriment. The tiering system also communicates the wrong idea; you have to purchase additional tiers and those are represented with bronze, silver, and gold, which communicates that higher tiers are objectively better, which is not the case. I quit about halfway through on a conveyor belt level that required perfect execution and favorable RNG to complete; not fun game design. TL;DR 1. GP2 and his community need to learn to lighten up, be nice, and be more open to criticism 2. Quantity =/= Quality 3. Difficulty doesn't automatically make your game fun. You need to design with fun in mind first, not difficulty

[@lunatheghost65]

i do think they should remove the coins needed for tiering that, or at least make the full cost of the the plant's tiers on tier 1, so people dont get good plants stuck in worse tiers

[@PurpleB3D]

Some of the Levels are so ridiculously difficult that i just look up how other people beat it and mimic their set up, i dont wanna sit on one level for over an hour trying various different plants and strategies

[@Toneshadow]

pvz 2 alpha eclise have problems with plants and levels more than beta in my opinion. Level that dusk lobber was introduced i did not use it. I thought it was so trash i mean it cannot kill weasel without it getting over run. Splash and bonk choy comes in and does it job way better. Some levels need to be removed or change make the player to have better time and learning. Name some is ice block farm level, last stand far future invincible tile level, punk jam. Great video you did creeps and hope things improve on the mod and not go to more into the abyss than it is. Have good day people reading this

[@Cool_Kid95]

I use Garlic a lot in PvZ1. It's great for certain levels! But not in PvZ2. Not only is it WORSE FOR NO REASON, but the game isn't even made for it.

[@mikadosannoji553]

zombies take a extra bite from it before they go to another lane for some reason

[@kauanjos3199]

It's because in pv1 almost all zombies main form of attack is eating but in 2 there's multiple zombies that don't eat plants, like the octopus zombie and the mage zombie as an example

[@Cool_Kid95]

@@kauanjos3199 Yeah, the game isn't made for Garlic.

[@testerwulf3357]

If I remember correctly zombies just had to walk up to it, make a face, then change lanes..no eating; which is what made it so great! making it basically have to be consumed to be good is such a horrible nerf! So many zombies in pvz2 don't "eat" so it's useless to a lot of zombies

[@Cool_Kid95]

@@testerwulf3357 it can get consumed in PvZ1.

[@SPZ-gv2on]

I've been playing through the alpha myself recently and here's my take: It's poor for beginners but it's a nice streamlined experience for longtime players. Very quickly I've had to use what I learned from older beta playthroughs and very few of the levels have felt boring or free. However, the difficulty spikes are still somewhat there and the gimmicks are introduced with little context at full power immediately. I think it's quite fun but if anyone is trying to get into it, play the beta.

[@CoralReaper707]

Thank goodness I stuck with Beta and never looked back.

[@maush.]

How do you download beta

[@starlyiviny]

@@maush. join the NTC grotto, you should be able to pick any version of your choice

[@mr-goldy]

its so sad that it gets worse with every update i play grind thousand i think its fine

[@yb69420]

Thank God I only updated to beta 1.9

[@HashiNuke]

Thank goodness I grew up with vanilla

[@TheAntiBarrel]

"bug tiles aren't common in the main game" i can't agree more, considering that until you said that i didn't know they were PART of the base game

[@PromboVII]

This was a pretty good video, and I agree with most of the points made, but I do have one mild complaint - With the highest due respect, I think you really oughta slow down your talking speed. That, or add subtitles. There were a couple of times where I could not understand a lick of what you said.

[@crconan3518]

Solution: Introduces Starfruit and Repeater at later part of thr Introduction

[@Hugo-sm1kl]

being honest, i cant do decent strats at all, but dang. When i started to play alpha i missed repea and snow pea SO MUCH. Specially in S-2

[@pieegee8532]

Eclise for some reason tends to be quite bs in terms of teaching new players who got that mod and are struggling so much in so many regards it feels like each and every single level you have to use that one specific strategy. Is it a good mod.... I would say Not really? I think if new players introduced to pvz2 is to play an older patch like the 5.0.0 patch with an edited pp.dat file to unlock all premium plants but not gemium. And learn the core mechanics first. Eclise in general now is basically only playble if you're a pvz2 veteran who knows what and each zombie does.

[@user-uz1uh9vk6k]

Agreed

[@romhackerblaze]

git gud man jk

[@pro_-lx2bf]

Agreed but i think the game was designed that way as a big challenge and not a hand holding guide like normal pvz2

[@user-ic8kn6by6m]

Idk about this, but wasn't this mod made for people who were already familiar with pvz? Like, all I heard was that this would be pvz, for people that already knew how to play and wanted something more challenging

[@guffingtonreal]

I feel like Eclise relies on PVZ2 existing and expecting the player to know how plants work in that game too much. I had trouble in Pirate Seas with seagulls because I forgot how I could counter them properly.

[@sabersanimationschannel6385]

I remember how i quit at pirate seas. I felt like there are some things in there that i don't understand enough to do by myself

[@lotion5238]

I wanted to try the Alpha Version but was told by others in the discord that the changes weren't good. I think that they were right and I'll stick to beta for now

[@ShiaTheBunnyGirl]

People on the gp2 discord server not blindly praising eclise? That’s a surprise. Good thing they told you not to play.

[@RyanDxxx0]

Pretty well made video. I'm not too huge within the PVZ Community, watch the videos, and love the games, and I have been looking into playing a PVZ2 mod that feels like PVZ again. But yeah, I could see why this mod is very buggy and ambitious, it's a mod that doesn't emulate the original but test more expert player's abilities, mostly, player's who're used to the mechanics, plants and stages of PVZ2 and mixes it up for them. And I vaguely remember either you or someone else mentioning about some levels just, not being levels at all and just gauntelets of spam, for example nothing but garg's being spammed so you just have to pray and attack. But eitherway, really well made video. 👏gg

[@Creeps20]

If you are looking for a more similar to PVZ1 mod, best bet is AltverZ most likely, if you want a suggestion. anyways thanks

[@Martin-fb9pb]

The creator of this video also did a mod called Shallow, although it's harder than AltverZ

[@user-pu9ud7qw3c]

@@Creeps20 Do you know a mod that greatly changes the gameplay, but for the better? For example, I saw your video, where you make pvz more interesting with sunflowers for 150 suns, and etc. You can let me play your mod or suggest other mods that change the pvz2 gameplay.

[@lunatheghost65]

I actually enjoyed eclise alpha a lot Since you actually have to consider the layout of most levels and pick plants accordingly, instead of using the same team over and over, which gets boring The difficulty for me was just right, and even most of the S levels were fairly fun That said, some broken plant teams work for most levels, so it's only like 30% of levels where you do have to tailor your teams to counter them Also I didn't actually realise the levels after unlocking a plant encourage you to use them, i just used whatever i thought was appropriate

[@oblongLogin]

There were a lot of really bad new levels added in alpha (12-4) that were so luck dependent or insanely difficult that it stopped being fun. The level with the point goal was a much better intro to both parsnip and impporter than the actual intros

[@elfbeaned]

12-4 was changed: no more C1 parachute, addition pf. I made numerous mistakes in this level, despite that, I managed to win mowerless.

[@chrisamus7087]

ngl the overabundance of introductions kinda kills the mod for me i really cannot think of a single adventure level that wasn't intended to be an introduction to something other than like X-10s yes introductions can be good but not when the entire mod is comprised of them

[@Creeps20]

fun fact 10-10 is an intro to bombe i hate this fact

[@chrisamus7087]

@@Creeps20 SAME.... its a pt1 finale and it has the gall to make it an introduction 🤡

[@boxo78]

@@chrisamus7087 I mean you can enjoy intros as much as non-intros if you just ignore the point :troll:

[@zandbergx9747]

@@boxo78 Air shipping 😊

[@HotAnimeWaifu]

Saw you're intensive carrot vid and now i'm hooked

[@miimiiandco.8721]

Is this an epic breakdown of modded level design?! Ohhh, lemme see!

[@660nj]

Grats on 1000

[@a_person5668]

Wouldn’t the “partial locked and loaded” restriction solve the issue with the plant’s introductions? Lock and load the plant they’re meant to learn to use, and then let them make the rest of their deck around it. This’ll make the whole “design around recent plants” work better, won’t it?

[@Kewlbreeze8]

Man. This hits hard o-o" Good thing I take note of this for my future mod hehehe

[@jtroll462]

As a player if your forced to use something you Hate that you have to. People love being creative but if your creativity is stomped cause you have to use this on this stage will hamper that

[@impbutnot3701]

As someone who's only playthrough of alpha was alpha 2 I recall alpha 2 having a lot of horribly difficult levels in general. I was a casual player and I remember 10-5 wasn't fun even tho i used red. A lot of intros were not fun and I most importantly I did not recall learn anything except rushing a defense and cold snap is broken. Also I thought 13-9 when I saw it was a demonstration of what happens when a sheeped plant is ontop of a grave.

[@zandbergx9747]

I saw 200 sun repeater placed as bottom tier and had to pause the video to take a quick lie down there

[@Creeps20]

i couldn't find good tier lists ok

[@averagemicrosoftpaintenjoy7115]

Another example: 14-2 (i think): Parrot Patrols. Try it without toad. I dare you. Edit: It's not Parrot patrols it's pelican delegant

[@Labbomt]

bonk and kernel go brrr

[@krub1124]

lol i didnt even think of using toadstool, i completely forgot that he can also swallow animal zombies instantly, iirc i just used a lot of kernel corn because butter one shots the parrot anyway

[@andrewgreeb916]

Toadstool is some broken nonsense against the right targets and okay otherwise

[@jess648]

ECLISE is just hard to approach for me its hard to understand which strategies I should be using and how the hell I’m supposed to use the tiering system effectively. Also the introduction of Mints is TERRIBLE I was almost burnt on PvZ2 mods as a whole since it was the first one I played

[@Glatier]

dude play AltVerz

[@jess648]

@@Glatier I have it instead and it is good

[@elfbeaned]

You don't even need mints to play. The criticisms about mints are just a card for hate. Now, if you can always win a game and meet no hard level, so it is fun? Hell no, it is just boring. Eclise isn't smth piss easy like pvz or pvz 2, you must have brain to play, not to pick random thing and still win, it doesn't exist in this game.

[@bucket-prouductionsyt5132]

@@elfbeaned That's the problem since PvZ in of itself is a casual game. Hell, most tower defense games in general are easy! I honestly think that ECLISE just needs to be a lot easier and more accessible to a large audience, or you could simply say that the game is "too niche" for it's own good.

[@elfbeaned]

@@bucket-prouductionsyt5132 just a fact: people proclaiming they are "good" at pvz are usually bad at tower defense. About ECLISE being easier..... how the f you want it to be easier? Lots of hard levels in alpha 2-alpha 3 are all now very easy. It was intended to be harder than beta, and after massive nerfs alpha 3-alpha 3.5-alpha 4.5, levels like 5-7, 1-9, 1-10, 2-7, 5-3, 5-7,... got back to beta difficulty, and some are easier.

[@DannyCheezits]

i worked my way through all of eclise during the last school year and it took me all of april and may to beat the Alpha levels. I dont remember exactly what levels I got stuck on but it was definitely the later levels of Dark Ages 2 and the middle of Pirate Seas 2. It felt good beating the mod in the end but it was still way more artificially challenging than a plants vs zombies should ever be, on par with those chinese plants vs zombies 1 mods. I've found that other mods like Shallow and Altverze handle challenge way better than eclise ever did

[@razi_man]

I guess I must be the exception then, because I DO gravitate towards new plants. Of course, I only use them for a few levels if they are bad and I use them a lot if they are good.

[@pinapplepirate3209]

I was thinking of this video while steamrolling through the stunion tutorial level(s) with my normal strategy that didn't incorporate stunion

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

7:00 Escape Root (from a secret level) with the Spore Shroom are decent there. Together with red stinger. And imitated ice letuce.

[@lebollsong]

This will be extremely spicy

[@lebollsong]

Even spicier than how big wave beach is portrayed in modern pvz2

[@boxo78]

@@lebollsong true wisdom

[@sswon8944]

l think Dusk was introduced too early! It only does it's job well as a powered tier 3, but Moonflower and ShadowLeaf are introduced too later on, and the coins for tiering is far from being collected.

[@imadooooor]

With all the respect to Eclise, Reflourished is the best mod literally the PVZ2 we deserved

[@ulala7969]

i downloaded eclise because i wanted do see is it really that good. and it was looking nice... for 5 minutes it was ancient egypt level 3 and it was fucking hard like it was a final level of some kind then i saw that there's a file called easy and i replaced the original file and it finally felt like pvz not like some kind of pain generator made for masochists

[@venomsnake9975]

Easy mode is very fun and not a PAIN GENERATOR. And GT000 Squared edition is fun too. I have both but i like more GT000

[@imtoolazyforaprofilepic4961]

Whaaaaat?!)! Criticism? To anything related to eclise? Time for a ban

[@petrikhorr]

What! You can't smoke unless you're 18! What! someone gets this joke

[@Sahzwich]

eclise Is the hello neighbor of pvz 2

[@jeremiahparker5908]

I kept spamming rotobaga for most levels since that's what works a lot of the time where a lot zombies appear in the later portion of the level

[@eduardopimentel6723]

Starfruit is also an amazing plant similar to roto, if you plant many of them they do massive damage, and you can get it pretty early on just in Ancient Egypt.

[@user-TheTrueGibly]

pvz 2: thanks for the fast forward button, this is really cool! eclise: oh god theres too many-a them wheres the "slow down" button!!!?!?

[@user-zg4bk6rv1q]

I used to play eclise mod, but i quit it after some time and i've recently returned and considering that i started in neon mixtape part 1 i assume 10-5 was the reason why i stopped playing months ago. Also glad i decided to finish it before quitting because i would have definitely quit again if that was the first lever i played after a long break

[@tl1326]

im really sorry about this could you add captions? im not very adept in english and it’s hard for me personally to make sense of what you’re saying

[@ember7728]

I'm a native English speaker, and I find it hard to make sense of what he is saying

[@rafiihsanalfathin9479]

His voice is kinda confusing yea i felt that

[@Joname13]

15:26. Yes, but have you played Night Jurrasic March-20 in beta. It has an entire portion of the level used for spamming gargs.

[@Creeps20]

yes actually, though it was added in 1.9 which is basically alpha -1 so honestly it fits the mood. Still an equally dumb level.

[@godbread3781]

I didn't have trouble on JM-20

[@Joname13]

@@godbread3781 Me too. But it's still a garg spam at the end.

[@Creeps20]

@@godbread3781 dumb =/= hard. its just a dumb level, not a challenge.

[@ShiaTheBunnyGirl]

@@godbread3781 just because the garg spam isn’t hard doesn’t excuse the fact it’s garg spam.

[@Craeonkie]

Eclise has all the catagories except they're all challages at the same time

[@stormyshelter9997]

the virgin eclise mod vs. the chad vanilla pvz2 vs. the gigachad reflourished mod

[@ins1ght_]

remember guys, there is no reason to play eclise now that reflourished is out :3

[@protolight1654]

i love using chompers btw, i do agree with most of your points however.

[@grass9926]

I have only played a little of pvz 2 so I am not a veteran of any kind but I still enjoy eclise a lot. Idk maybe it just fits my playstyle better

[@bruh985yearsago5]

Weasel holders subtitles: we'll holders

[@angry-plant]

Man that intro cracked me up!

[@bluekunt]

i always knew Eclise was overrated and also far too balanced (believe it or not thats a thing) so im glad this was addressed

[@lgflbrandyascognac]

Yeah i knew too

[@lordhellstrande2763]

There's something fun about finding a game breaking strategy in a lot of games every now and then. I love when a Binding of Isaac combo drops my fps to 1 but annihilates rooms

[@shakibrahamani4583]

Im know Im late to this but I can't really here what he's saying at the end of the video that well. Can someone clarify what he's saying?

[@Shark-pj8in]

Everyone playing reflorished now haha.

[@zandbergx9747]

13-9 could be an interesting level, but it utterly fails as an intro to chomper I agree, and it could easily give a lasting bad impression. I love my boy chomper and he has many great uses but I don't think I would ever have considered using it in that level if it was a regular CYS. (low armour basics and wizards, duh)

[@dylantoney6971]

chomper is a pretty good use as a defensive plant that can also be used as an insta with excess stun - a good niche expanded upon poorly.

[@iaticdamir1620]

Interesting fact:level 13-9 was interesting :before change, you had to protect 2 moon-flowers, but the thing is that they were bouncing around on lawn by gravestones. So you had to not only protect these moon-flowers, but also clean gravestones to not get your moon-flowers bounced away from the lawn. And then this level to turned into this...

[@mujtabaomar880]

There were many times I wanted to stop playing eclise and I almost did But I pushed myself through and Managed to complete possibly the longest pvz mod I've ever played

[@RedFalcon-op4hx]

I’ve only played through v1.5-1.8. But it’s a shame to hear it’s only become a worse experience with time since then. This video definitely strikes a cord with me for 20-8 in particular. An intro for what could be a very different game at what was the third final level of the campaign at the time I beat it, with that being the only level of its kind in the campaign (and side levels excluding mini games and community ones) was also extremely out of place. The signs were always there with an incredibly high rate of people going off the mod within the first ten to twenty main levels.

[@lombeelo8780]

7:00 as far as i remember, in original game it was a level to use thumpbeats on

[@DangerPotPie5_SA_Brown]

EDIT: now dusk lobber ISN’T required for 5-6 and now it’s fire peashooter! The plants swapped places in alpha 4.5

[@G-Shroom-The-Mushroom]

Shadow shroom will always be my favorite

[@tadihotado3518]

People think its great, it isnt, its just we have nothing to compared it too, at its core its better than the org pvz2, but in practice, its shittier than even a fanmade game cause it assumes you should know all of this by now, thats the main problem i have with the game and something the dev doesnt recognize and wont, you make a mod for everyone, not veterans, there are people who dont even know how to utilize moonflowers buff out there too, this mod is for the dev, not for the people he sell it to, and thats stupid

[@lunatheghost65]

i think it's fine for the target demographic to be more advanced players the difficulty was just right for me meanwhile the chinese community said eclise was way too easy heh

[@KiuhKobold]

Goes without saying that Eclise having an Easy version of the obb which actually feels fair is a thing. I downloaded Eclise mod because the only other option I know, Altverz, made some bullshit changes to zombies that I hate (namely an old west zombie being immune to frost and jetpacks being immune to projectiles and flying over even Infi-nut's barrier). Its frustrating.

[@elfbeaned]

I haven't played Altverz, but I feel 25 sun meta is quite too slow and boring. I can even play Eclise, mean, AlterZ is just too easy and may turn boring very quickly

[@spark9372]

My only complaint with eclise is the secret levels none of the main levels have given me strife because of one factor the secret levels are introduced to you knowing you dont have the effective plant to deal with them i cant tell you how long i was stuck on S-14 Squidillion and S-20 Metal Jampian knowing full well that toadstool x hot potato and magnet shroom would be amazing counter picks to the issues posed i managed to beat squidillion without toadstool instead went for teir 3 star fruit spam and somehow lived it but i could not for the life of me get proper footing in Metal jampain because id struggle trying to deal with the punk rush only to have no dmg for the gargs that send fucking shockwaves after so i had to grind through the second half of darkages albeit it was relatively easy in order to beat a level they proposed to me 3 days in advance to me good design is giving you a problem that you can fix. If you cant fix it dont pose the problem.

[@crazymartin526]

I used to play eclise before alpha. And good lord did i struggle even on easy difficulty. I got stuck in alot of the levels and when i got to second half of each world i got stuck on almost every other level.

[@user-uz1uh9vk6k]

Maybe because your planning and micromanaging skill is not that good back then? Hardcore levels are still easy for me tbh

[@crazymartin526]

@@user-uz1uh9vk6k Nope, my micromanaging skills are pretty good. Alot of the levels are literally based on like 3 strategies to beat them,and if you don't use those 3 strategies that you will have to google them up cause how tf are you meant to find out what to use and what not to win a level.

[@elfbeaned]

​@@crazymartin526 dialogue....... And who the fuck has good micromanagement skills will struggle in ECLISE??? Escape root is there pay attention to all lanes.... and if you get stuck due to using smth like "fire pea+snow pea" or smth that obviously doesn't fit the level, then you blame the game? Blame urself instead in this case, I don't copy DT.

[@absent612]

Ay, I feel kinda rude asking this, but would you mind adding subtitles to your videos? Your accent is sort of heavy and as a non-native speaker who's mostly used to listening to white gringo folks it's hard to make out what you're saying sometimes. Thank you!

[@SonicEndouRed]

THANK YOU! Finally someone that doesn't like trash "hard" games.

[@marcocanana8505]

i used to play this using yt for them most of the levels also another reason why i quitted is the plants the dubuff and the updates

[@forgetfullplatinum]

Eclipse teaches players to spam selectively not completely just make you have more skill to complete level but there are some that gives you brain damage just trying to complete it

[@stefandjurica9219]

yea i agree about the mints thats why i just hacked infinite money to buy the cute small plants

[@larrymantic2635]

Now they don’t have to teach you anymore!

[@Stirling96]

At least we have grind thousand

[@samlev9871]

GP2 seems to have misunderstood how tier lists were set up. He thinks they were designed on how much the plant was used. And as pictured later in the video, Chomper is still useless. Seriously, this plant DESPERATELY needs a buff. Maybe its Goop from the Garden Warfare games could be an extra ablity? Doubling zombie intros as plant intros should not be the case. That makes it hard to introduce what when. One plant and one zombie should be introduced at a time. Given the two shown responses to Bug Tile counters, it's clear they're hated, ESPECIALLY since there's a censored swear word in one of them. Intensive Carrot T3 seems like a good counter for the Bug Tiles however, given that it can fully revive the defeated plants that died to projectiles. However, with Gargs, things like knockback might be better. It's weird that PvZ1 graves (the ones invincible to everything but Grave Buster) get a simple introduction while the Bug Tiles' introduction, is much more nightmarish. Lastly, Alpha 4 spoilers: The introduction level of an upcoming zombie, the Zombie Amber, has pre-placed plants. These plants are opposites: One (a Repeater) is not a counter to the Zombie Amber, while the other (a Fire Peashooter) is. You can see this in the zombie's showcase video. Would that count as good teaching?

[@Creeps20]

Just going to through everything one at a time. 1 - Not quite, as a lot of plants low down have some very good traits if the player can understand them (see Explodeonut, a plant which spent a lot of it's life totally underused, or Toadstool, which was totally useless to most players until recently, where people really started to see it's power). Even Chomper has some very effective applications, you just need to understand how to use it. 2 - In general even WITH gargs the best plan is to simply use plants like T3 Tallnut to keep them off the walls, as its far more reliable that way and costs a lot less sun, which is why T3 carrot is in general very iffy and questionable as a counter. 3 - With preplant-ed plants in general I'm super iffy. Amber in general is a weird zombie, admittedly, and I can see the thought behind the introduction there and do think its much better than, say, Bug Tiles. But I also think it also shows the player how to counter the zombie in quite literally the least interesting and least fun way, which I certainly think doesn't help it's case much, though I'm not a fan of Amber in general so god knows, though it could literally be to just showcase the zombie in that one circumstance and may not reflect the actual level, which may be better or worse.

[@nothyperfire1107]

i liked eclise but it feels like it toes the line between challenging and unfair too much

[@dayandere2669]

I've been wondering how in the world you make a pvz2 mod ;-; Been unable to find info on the topic

[@robertlupa8273]

It's *_still_* in alpha stages of development?

[@Toprak135]

2:54 **Laughs in Mini Potato Mine**

[@maraguayo25]

Can't believe there are people who still think Eclise is a great mod.

[@-D_A-R_K]

Can't believe there's still people that can't accept opinion

[@Lissy_YT481]

@@-D_A-R_K I can't believe there's people that refuses to be objective.

[@-D_A-R_K]

@@Lissy_YT481 Can't believe that there's still people that can't differentiate facts and opinion

[@Lissy_YT481]

@@-D_A-R_K like you?

[@-D_A-R_K]

@@Lissy_YT481 Yes you

[@happy_run]

i basically beat the entirety of eclise beta part 2 levels with t3 thyme warp and t3 homing thistle cause its just a plant that works for basically all situations. i dont agree with the hate though, i like how the difficulty increased and i found it much better than vanilla pvz2 but there are probably better mods.

[@MrRobbins2012]

THANK YOU LORD YOU SAVE US ALL

[@Allanpogi34]

How irony The creators say that The original game was unfair and now the mod is more unfair than the original pvz

[@RealMrLazy]

im still playing through it and its difficultty rises way to quick

[@elliethejellie]

i beat 10-5 with dusklobber which in my opinion is better than red stinger its cheap splash damage very useful

[@user-jc1kq1qb5j]

Why can you beat that level with red stinger much easier than with other plants? Isn't red stinger just a repeater? I dont get it.

[@elliethejellie]

@@user-jc1kq1qb5j repeater with an annoying long recharge*

[@user-jc1kq1qb5j]

@@elliethejellie but then why is using stinger almost required to beat this level with a bunch of sped up punks?

[@elliethejellie]

@@user-jc1kq1qb5j thats because goodpea2 made the level in such a way that it forces the player to use it. I never said red stinger was bad, I just said that dusk lobber could do it's job better

[@user-jc1kq1qb5j]

@@elliethejellie but why can't you beat the level with repeaters? Or any other plants? Is the plant choice limited?

[@applecustard8807]

Love the video and I think you have some great points, but at some points I'm not sure of what you're saying due to you talking to fast, please try to slow downh a bit lol