Bernardo Kastrup "Jung's Crown Jewel"

Tähenduse teejuhid (Maps of Meaning) is an Estonian language monthly newspaper that is distributed with the country's largest daily Postimees. The first issue came out in September 2020. The centre of gravity of each number is a ca 4000-word interview. The conversation with Bernardo Kastrup appeared in the 38th issue of the paper (January 2024). Here are seven highlights from this interview. The first comes from my brief introduction, the other are direct quotes.
1. For whatever reasons the interview with Bernardo Kastrup that I had stumbled on in March 2019 had an enormously powerful emotional effect on me. I went to a long walk in the night and slept at most a couple of hours right before the sunrise. In the few following days I registered myself for the seminar “Micro and Macrocosmos, Animism, Science and Spiritualiy” at Wasiwaska - I got the last place there - and on April 2 I already took notes from Rupert Sheldrake’s first lecture. These two weeks at Wasiwaska have been without any doubt the most formative in my life so far - since then I never thought about going back to antidepressants again.
2. I struggled with that question for a couple of years until I realized that whatever I could conceivably change in my design, it would have an impact only on the structure and function of the program. It would bring me no closer to having a reason to consider the computer conscious. In other words, none of what I did had any bearing on consciousness. It was completely incommensurable. That realization forced me to reevaluate my metaphysics, my view of the nature of reality and the nature of mind. It forced me to retrace my steps, in order to figure out when I took a wrong turn that brought me to a dead alley. And I realized that the wrong turn was the assumption I had never examined - that consciousness is something that you can create out of specific material arrangements. That assumption was wrong.
3. From a philosophical perspective the most important milestone was a 1974 paper by an US thinker Thomas Nagel „What Is It Like to Be a Bat?“. That brought consciousness back into the scientific debate. In the 90s there ensued already the discussion about panpsychism. It seems to me that based on the Nobel Prize (2023) winning experiments that refuted physical realism, some form of idealism is probably the only plausible alternative we have. Be as it may, materialism is history and Jung held the light during the most difficult, dangerous and narrow segment of the path that has brought us here.
4. Sheldrake takes Jung’s idea further. It is not only original archetypes - fundamental, intrinsic properties of nature - that are important but also habits through which the past keeps shaping the future. A habit created in the past will bias the probabilities of events happening today. Habits have a certain momentum, a certain inertia. Once they are set in motion, they open a path that nature would tend to use afterwards.
5. The University of Zürich acknowledged Hillman’s doctoral thesis on emotions with summa cum laude. Hillman poeticized the whole of life and tried in this way to provide a counterbalance to the current cynical, scientistic view of nature which says that nature is something that is dead, that it is intrinsically devoid of meaning and that meaning is an illusion that we project on nature. Hillman tried to shift the pendulum radically to the other extreme, in the hope that it would stop somewhere in the middle.
6. We think that our inability to understand evil is a sign of our moral superiority. Our politicians go up to a stage and say full of pride that they cannot relate to evil. By saying that they want to reassure us that they themselves would not be capable of doing such malicious things. This is not only an incredibly immature but also dangerous attitude because if you truly do not understand evil, you are going to be a victim of evil or an instrument of it. Eighty years ago all evil in the world was embodied in Hitler, just as it is now in Putin.
7. I don't even know which adjective to use here. James Hollis is not only the deepest living Jungian, he is also probably one of the wisest men alive. Hollis is a wounded healer. Life has put him through unspeakable suffering, so he understands where people are. He understands suffering, he understands it very, very well. Hollis has found the strength in himself to perform the alchemical transformation from suffering to healing, to turn suffering into the ability to heal. He is especially essential for men who go through midlife crisis.

[@IntuitArt-rb4br]

Profoundly helpful. Thank you both.

[@tcl5853]

“Saving the Appearances” Book by Owen Barfield. Outstanding book by a brilliant man.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

I love those who follow the evidence and don’t just get stuck and dogmatic. Good work Bernardo.

[@goran586]

10:00 Owen Barfield. "Saving the Appearances - A Study in Idolatry"

[@bigron7009]

This was great. Thank you both. Enjoyed this a lot more than i thought...so much food for thought. Thank you

[@patrickdelarosa7743]

Thank you both for the conversation, is always a pleasure to listen to Bernardo’s ideas and with a very good job by the interviewer is better, thank you again 🙏

[@georgehancock8031]

Outstanding! As always.

[@williamjmccartan8879]

Thank you both very much for sharing your time and work, that phrase a "wounded healer" has incredible depth, peace

[@MattGray_Chelsoph]

Great thanks!

[@gloriaharbin1131]

Thank you. A wonderful discussion with Bernardo.❤

[@EdmundBurkeiSelts]

Thank you for your kind words. Hardo

[@PanicAttackRecovery]

Great video. I liked the point made that the change in paradigm towards a materialistic view that what we perceive is the only reality does not hold water. That of course we and other organisms do not perceive all that exists.

[@TobiasC-mg4zk]

Perception is all that truly exists.

[@lbazemore585]

Owen Barfield's *Saving the Appearances* a great read! Sadly, Rupert Sheldrake and "Morphic Resonance" (not to neglect Bishop Berkeley) did not make the subtitle edit! How many decades must pass before the ideas being discussed in this interview are taught to the general public and overtake our present destructive physicalistic cultural habits.

[@mcnallyaar]

Just got added to my list!

[@mcnallyaar]

YES YES YES YES YES IMAGination Keep it up!

[@ALavin-en1kr]

This reminds me of the Catholic Church keeping the Dark Occult out of the mainstream before the Age of Reason. We should all be grateful for that because the dark occult is not good for mind or for community.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

There is substance and there are ideas. Therefore Reality is a play of Ideas on Substance. The Substance and the Ideas come from the same source: Consciousness (fundamental); Mind (material, emerges with quantum events).

[@sxsmith44]

OK BK does exactly that (he compares what’s going on Ukraine with what’s going on in Israel) in his next interview with “David Tizzard” (at 26 min in) It was released today Sunday 4/27/24.

[@deepakSharma-db6fj]

Consciousness is the base , a platform - rest is just a dance on the top of it. Material does not create consciousness. Its the other way round !

[@ALavin-en1kr]

Consciousness is fundamental because it just IS. Mind likely emerges with quantum events. Anything that is in motion is a part of quantum events.

[@DavidMiller-ej8fv]

Who is "Cheatem" (spelling help please), who wrote "All the World An Image". Bernardo mentions this book at 35:43. I want to find it.

[@EdmundBurkeiSelts]

www.tomcheetham.com With best wishes, H.

[@DavidMiller-ej8fv]

A thousand thanks for your response. How did I become a septuagenarian and never hear of Tom Cheetham?

[@JohnLoty]

I have a very high regard for Bernardo Kastrup...and was surprised, jolted, stunned when he was speaking about Evil...he seriously stated his belief/understanding that Putin was evil. I had heard Bernardo previously talk about the Ukranian catastrophe and assume that he has concluded that somehow Putin is to blame. This is contradicted by many online commentators that I also respect so I would like to know how or why Bernardo came to what appears to be a very firmly held belief...that I find very difficult to understand.

[@user-mm8pm7ol3r]

The "Ukrainian catastrophe" is called "The full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia". Maybe that will give you a clue. Also, as a Russian, I suggest you come and live here. You might enjoy the Putin regime you support so much.

[@user-mm8pm7ol3r]

The internationally recognized name for the "Ukrainian catastrophe" is the "Full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia". This might give you a clue.

[@user-mm8pm7ol3r]

Praising a dictator while enjoying the benefits and freedoms of a democracy is one thing; living in a dictatorship is another. Instead of listening to all those far-right speakers who try to outcompete each other as to who is more edgy and cOnTrAriAn, I suggest moving to Russia where I live. Nothing beats first-hand experience.

[@asaflevy9387]

26:40 wouldn't you think consistency and behavior are the same thing just over a very long time? e.g., nature's habit is gravity. Maybe it's the oldest habit of them all, now considered the most primal consistency.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

300 cheers for Mr Kastrup !!! Organism, not Mechanism!!! Behaviourism is pure BS !!! 👻 🤔( "Green Fire" by geoff nelson hill at your local bookshop. )🌈🦉

[@anandtularam]

Really needs to study more the imagery etc in what he says... He needs to study more accurately how these are related to some religious aspects

[@ALavin-en1kr]

Satan was the light that fell from heaven, without Satan there would not be anything manifest, duality, etc. or evolution to self awareness, other than determined consciousness by the created., (good by determination rather than good by choice, out of freedom). God in man became more conscious? God as God becoming more consciousness is not the case. Cosmic Consciousness and Transcendence does not need to become more consciousness. It just needs to see Itself from the outside by humanity. There was a tendency to see God as what is; the universe, without transcendence. Einstein, Spinoza, and maybe Jung did not understand or believe in transcendence. A God limited to, and by, His creation is not a God, as the definition of God as all-knowing, all-powerful, and everywhere.

[@crazyglatze9486]

putin is the greatest evil in the world? lol

[@robertwarner-ev7wp]

I would guess the American military industrial complex would win that title.

[@TobiasC-mg4zk]

Krembots here? Go watch Jorbson Jeeberston or Tucker HawHaw Carlson if you’re so sensitive about the criticism of Putin.

[@kaingab]

i love bernardo but every time he mentions putin i cringe so hard all of this deep thinking seems to have put a vail on hes peception when it comes to politics, propaganda and whats actualy happening…its just dissapointig

[@sxsmith44]

OK BK does exactly that (he compares what’s going on Ukraine with what’s going on in Israel) in his next interview with “David Tizzard” at 26 min in) It was released today Sunday 4/27/24.

[@hewhomustnotbenamed9276]

Putin is a brutal dictator. It isn't Bernardo who is blind it's you.

[@user-mm8pm7ol3r]

Praising a dictator while enjoying the benefits and freedoms of a democracy is one thing; living in a dictatorship is another. Instead of listening to all those far-right speakers who try to outcompete each other as to who is more edgy and cOnTrAriAn, I suggest moving to Russia where I live. Nothing beats first-hand experience!

[@sxsmith44]

I don’t think you know what love is!

[@electricrice]

Bernardo is great, but one thing that bothers me is his claim that Putin is the modern embodiment of pure evil, while basically ignoring the unspeakable crimes currently being perpetrated by Israel in Gaza

[@sxsmith44]

It shouldn’t bother you! I’ve heard him speak very unfavorably about many current leaders. I’ve heard him say a couple times also that guys like Putin, Xi and Hitler are only doing what they think is best for their country. I’ve seen over hundred BK videos and I usually listen three or four times to each one. In fact it just struck me I have heard him speak recently about what’s going on in Israel and he was not on either side. The war in Ukraine is only about 1000 miles from where he lives and it’s been going on for years whereas the latest trouble in Israel is not as prevalent for him. Keep listening to him and you will see for yourself.

[@sxsmith44]

OK BK does exactly that in his next interview with “David Tizzard”! It was released today Sunday 4/27/24.

[@michaeldillon3113]

Well BK takes that view because he is well educated and thoughtful and understands history .

[@michaeldillon3113]

​@@sxsmith44Well people who believe in peace want peace for both sides . Peace isn't about peace for one side and the extermination of the other. If you support Hamas then you support the wholesale destruction of Israel locally and Jews worldwide . Even the president of the Palestinians said yesterday that a solution must include security for the Jewish people. I draw a total parallel between the attack on South Israel last October ( at a pop festival - imagine if that happened at Glastonbury in the UK 😱) and the genocide ( ongoing )of the Yazidi people . 🕊️

[@electricrice]

@@michaeldillon3113 I would say the opposite. Either that or he believes (perhaps subconsciously) Europeans are entitled to basic human rights and others ie Palestinians are not.