EFAP

[@leonbrinck1504]

Doctor stranges cloak can keep thanos' hand from shutting but can't lift a motorcycle...

[@thehermitman822]

And it lifts ppl with ease with barely any fabric around the neck.

[@aerithroses2683]

@@thehermitman822 shhh stop making sense

[@kossettereaditte7552]

Right

[@diimidosemineral9261]

It also just gets out, it just lives the motorcycle in a minute, like why have that? And also literally body checks people in the first one

[@Shockguey]

Guy appeared out of nowhere, it was probably a magic motorcycle.

[@drezbrown1382]

Reed Richards didn’t even make it to his own movie before getting character assassinated. Jesus, that’s efficiency.

[@smugalice6206]

Victor Von Doom has an uncredited writing credit.

[@HectorLopez0217]

@@smugalice6206 Namor as well

[@yourarchnemesis8453]

@@HectorLopez0217 And Galactus.

[@smugalice6206]

@@HectorLopez0217 Nah, Namor begrudgingly respects Reed even if he’s jealous of him because of Sue. They were even part of the OG Illuminati. Doom, however, *despises* Reed. He’d absolutely write something where Reed’s involved as little as possible, and his last words/actions are both uncharacteristically stupid and leads to the deaths of him and his teammates.

[@HectorLopez0217]

@@smugalice6206 Fair enough. I was remembering when Sue left Reed for Namor, and how destroyed you must feel when your girl leaves you when you can stretch every part of your body

[@DuneStone6816]

What I don’t understand is why is Wanda so fixated on her sons and only on her sons. She has a lover, a brother, and two parents who all died young in tragic ways. Surely there are universes out there where her whole family is alive and together, but for some reason she only cares about these boys she only ever knew for a few days.

[@DuneStone6816]

@Grant I don't follow. Didn't she have to search for universes where the boys lived after she saw them in her dreams? Why would she dream about them but never dream about Vision or Pietro? Why wouldn't Vision just be there with the boys in most universes anyway? Is Wanda a single mother in every universe?

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@Grant so she wouldn't also be dreaming of her with an _entire_ family? Mom and Dad are alive, Pietro's alive, Vision's alive, and she has her two boys? Do you know what the word "Multiverse" means? Do you know what the word "Infinite" means? That means that when Wanda dreams, there's a chance of her dreaming about that.

[@SassyCassie89]

This is gonna sound corny and kinda retarded....but only a parent could understand.

[@Justanidea5976]

Maybe that's all she could really ask for without the fear of it being taken away from her again. Every time she gains something even resembling a family or comfort to her it gets taken away, killed, or it's not real and she has to let go. Probably only asked for her sons because they weren't "real."

[@pokespartytv8086]

@@Justanidea5976 hex vision wasn’t real :)))

[@StevenRichter]

Wanda says she's giving Strange until sundown to hand over Chavez. Kamar-Taj is in Nepal. Nepal is 10 hours ahead of the US, meaning it's already night there when she said that. So given the fact that Wanda does later show up at their local sundown; the embarrassing, slap-dash defense at Kamar-Taj is what you get when the Sorcerers had a full night and the entire next day to prepare...

[@igorpedro8995]

What do we expect from the people who only put the exact amount of sorcerers needed into creating the most efficient shield they have, in a way that it can be dismantled if 2 people stop giving it energy for some cause ? And the same people that warn the sorcerers about her manipulation powers and wait for her to succeed instead of, I don't know, putting more people in the shield effort ?

[@jcore0981]

Dude your content is sick

[@mryellow6918]

@@igorpedro8995 I think it's even worse that wong, just gives up the location of where the dark hold was made. Because 5 of the loyal devotes that will lay down their life protecting earth against mystical assaults were tortured for 3 seconds.

[@Сайтамен]

That depends, if Strange visited her in the morning, that it can still be day there...

[@NightDany16]

She meant the next day I'd say, she essentially gave them the whole day to hand over Chavez or prepare

[@zachpulido5972]

I can’t wait to see the Spanish version of the film so I can see them all speaking Spanish, then have America dunderhead randomly ask Strange “you don’t speak Spanish?”, and he replies with “No entiendo español”.

[@mekudu-man3804]

basado

[@amanibob1416]

"Desole, je ne parle pas Quebecois... Tabarnak!

[@rlou4386]

The Spanish dub sidesteps this conversation by having Stephen say "why am I not your favorite", and she says to Wong "Do I have to spell everything out for this guy?" and Wong says "He's not having the best day today"

[@cyangorilla]

Her accent while saying that is so grating for anyone who speaks Spanish natively.

[@paisleesheppard5629]

This German guy once kept asking me why I spoke German when I answered 'Does anyone here speak German?' with 'Nein.' Because that's just about the only German word my German grandpa taught me that stuck. 🤷‍♀️

[@jcore0981]

Reed Richards "Smartest man in the universe" tells Wanda what Black Bolt's powers are so she can exploit them. Then proceeds to try to punch her.... "I just can't do it. I can't take this shit no more!"

[@dylanthomas3072]

To be fair, that's in character for Reed. Even in the comics, he's a genius, but he's also a smug asshat who causes almost EVERY mistake known to man.

[@cameronroy2129]

Hey smartest man on earth, you're being biased against zuuba beevo of quadrant tentiple shmifle

[@ramjet94]

Because he doesnt know that this wanda has this ability AT ALL. As far as he knows, shes just a fairly decent telekinetic and mild brai washer. He has no idea that her powers extend to warping the reality of other people's bodies because HIS worlds wanda isnt at that level. and he's actively trying to play good guy and spare her.

[@amanibob1416]

Shout out Liquid Rickard! 😝

[@jcore0981]

@@ramjet94 Ok but if he is "THE SMARTEST MAN IN THE UNIVERSE" why would you even fucking risk it?! If he thinks she is a telepath shouldn't he think she could control Black Bolt? Just give Bolt a subtle nod to incapacitate her. She has blood on her face! And that still doesn't excuse trying to just fucking punch her.

[@crossbones116]

I look forward to Wanda's next MCU appearance where she curbstomps a bunch of puppies to death but it's okay because her Starbucks order got screwed up that day, so she's the real victim in all this.

[@paisleesheppard5629]

No the real victim is the Starbucks cup. Gosh, imagine getting a Starbucks order from a super villain and getting vaporised because you got it wrong...

[@Ramsey276one]

You reminded me of Endless Eight And gave me a hell of an idea “You are telling me... ALL of THAT happening... was because-“ Neither of us created our reality, *DO NOT EXPECT ME TO MAKE SENSE OF IT* “I’m going home.” Same. See you later. [END] XD

[@whiterunguard6415]

you know she got killed and was stated to be wrong many times in the film and then she fucking dies. Not really getting your point

[@pokespartytv8086]

@@whiterunguard6415 she killed herself and in the end gets a “she did the right thing” yea, after killing innocents and torturing her. They say her actions are bad but alllllllll her scenes try to jerk us around saying “SEE! THIS IS WHY! NOW FEEL BAD!”

[@whiterunguard6415]

@@pokespartytv8086 dude wtf are you talking about? i will give you the wandavision " ThEy DoN'T KnOw WhAt YoU GaVe Up" line, that was dumb. But the entire movie people say to her you are selfish and wrong. the scenes you are talking about aren't saying wanda is right and see is good, they give her a reason for thinking this way. let me ask you this, are you a mother. Imagine having your kids and being happy one moment and then nothing the next. You do crazy shit if you want something enough. she is wrong, and crazy, the movie says that itself. in the end she has the chance to have what see wants but she sees that she is wrong and crazy THEN SHE KILLS HERSELF. please explain how the movie is saying she is right. they say she did they right thing cus she did, thats a fact. she made her last act a good one. that doesn't justify all the other shit and they never try to do that.

[@knightmare_edits]

Wanda: I want kids. Strange: Cool, I'm single, so let's hook up. Done. Movie's over.

[@shamrockgaming9505]

Brilliant

[@chasehedges6775]

@@shamrockgaming9505 💯💯💯

[@wakerobin9215]

This made me laugh out loud, I didn't even think of that lol

[@Your-obliques-are-poor]

The hero we need

[@rileyjfosbre6383]

For real though, I’d pay good money for the MCU writers to craft a real romance between two characters, because it’s like their allergic to the concept. She Hulk really brought this issue to light, but I’d argue none of the character have that kind of relationship, aside from Wanda and Vision for like 30 seconds in infinity war and a pinch of civil war.

[@Zero_2500]

This writer - between this film and Loki - has destroyed or damaged a more than 20 film series. Talk about a creative black hole. Holy crap.

[@joshmitchell5458]

I think it's Feige who's the creative black hole and not the writer. The writer is just filling in the gaps of Feige's story. The writer had previously worked on Rick and Morty before working on either of these projects and wrote a fantastic episode. He wrote the episode "The Old Man and the Seat". That whole episode is both funny and heartbreaking. I think Feige just tells people what story they HAVE to tell and then lets them take the fall for it being shit. He had a handler before Civil War. After Civil War, Feige had total control and now this is the type of shit we're getting. I used to trust in Feige but now I'm starting to think the other guy is who we should have been thanking for the MCU's success.

[@edgythehedgy6661]

@@joshmitchell5458 that episode of Rick and Morty was not very good, it’s pseudo-intellectual, much like Loki and this movie. So the writer deserves some shame as well

[@eidolon1426]

Can someone remind me which episode that was? The name didn't ring any bells, so I hope it wasn't in the later half of Season 5, because that Season had been so bad that I just stopped watching 4 or 5 episodes in.

[@joshmitchell5458]

@@eidolon1426 It was the one about Rick being a shy pooper and the alien that uses his toilet.

[@joshmitchell5458]

@@edgythehedgy6661 Fair enough, I personally really enjoy the episode and the story but I agree that Loki was awful. I feel like the MCU projects from the writer though aren’t his writing as much as it is Feige telling people what the story has to be and even possibly a bunch of the dialogue. I’m not going to ever say that one episode of a TV show that I enjoy is proof that he’s a good writer. He has another show on Starz called Heels that I haven’t seen but has a decent enough audience rating. It’s possible that on his own he’s just an ok writer, but that Feige put a lot of restraints on what he could and couldn’t do with this and Loki.

[@doctordino9150]

One thing I wish you guys talked about was how unbelievably rude/awkward it was for strange to restate his love to Christine during the wedding after party. Not only is it sad seeing the mighty avenger crack up like a middle schooler but I’d assume it’s just proper etiquette to not beg for the love of a newly wedded wife.

[@-JaggedGrace-]

But have you considered the shipping?

[@KelShu]

Professor X's death actually is upsetting to me, the first time he's in the MCU and they kill him off, before the X-Men got introduced no less

[@gman7497]

Well he will be back coz there's near infinite Professor X's and one of them dying doesn't mean shit anymore. Also well known characters turning evil doesn't mean shit coz there's better uncorrupted versions that you can just pluck from anywhere, at any time coz now you have a dedicated multiverse traveler that effectively removes consequences from just about everything.

[@KelShu]

@@gman7497 Even so, it's still feels upsetting for Professor X and Mr.Fantastic, characters that many people wanted to see in the MCU for years, killed off in the first MCU property that they get introduced in. Can't help but feel like I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth.

[@Сайтамен]

It's his 4th death on big screen...

[@KelShu]

@@Сайтамен Are we counting Days of Future Past

[@Сайтамен]

@@KelShu yes

[@Spartan_5271]

Strange complains about Hawkeye being a guy with a bow moments before all of the sanctuary defenses come out, including archers

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Does Strange reference Banner in that scene with Wanda or does he forget about him... the only reason I'm asking is because I'm now imagining Strange calling him in only for Wanda to go Age of Ultron on him during the fight but this time release Worldbreaker Hulk to purge what Endgame did to the character.

[@dodojesus4529]

@@Jedi_Spartan remember as endgame showed hulk is DEAD when the ancient one knocks the soul outta banerhulk only his soul comes out and the body lays on the floor. This despite the fact that ragnarok and infinity war showed that hulk was his own person. They cant have that, the endgame shit is beyond salvaging.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@dodojesus4529 well who knows what sort of overpowered resurrection BS Wanda found in the Dark Hold...

[@dodojesus4529]

@@Jedi_Spartan thatd be another nice escalation in insanity so yeah fuck it, lets do that. Still im not gonna get over them just jacking of and killing hulk without any acknowledgment

[@RogueFox2185]

So to recap: The Illuminati was wasted potential along with the multiverse aspect, Strange himself felt more like a secondary character if anything. The MCU being referred to as the 616 was also stupid, America was surprisingly way more tolerable compared to her comic counterpart and Wanda while great in this movie as the villain, having characters say her anger was justified was ridiculous when you put the events of WandaVision into perspective.

[@-Azure.EXE-]

Sam Raimi really knows his comic books. Creating alternate versions of established characters to be gruesomely slaughtered upon their introduction. I wasn't ready for some of those.

[@TechnoMinarchist]

Wait, the MCU being referred to as 616? That's so stupid the two universes couldn't be more different from each other.

[@Relugus]

Was not Wanda. This was Wanda fused to Chthon, who has been manipulating Wanda her entire life.

[@Relugus]

@@-Azure.EXE- Didn't the Illuminati break their bargain with Chthon? Chthon helped the variant Strange defeat Thanos, then the Illum killed him, thinking they had outmaneuvred Chthon.

[@mrakimov3458]

In fan wiki, MCU is referred as 199999.

[@-Azure.EXE-]

'She destroyed the DarkHold in all universes' Jesus fuxking Christ. I'm getting Crisis on Infinite Earth flashbacks

[@Relugus]

She is going to go all out to destroy CHTHON. Chthon can't manipulate her anymore.

[@mrminecraftcubeable]

Doctor d(esert)eagle and the book of DarkHold

[@AimlessSavant]

This whole movie sounds like Marvel's COIE. We even have a book of destiny!

[@mrakimov3458]

Comic or cw show?

[@-Azure.EXE-]

@@mrakimov3458 CW show. I hope to god the comic isn't as bad as the CW.

[@jeebuschristos8423]

3:49:48 I am confused by how Wanda managed to get nearly ALL the powers of Thanos wearing the Infinity Stones without having to wear the Infinity Stones... she can turn people into dust with a snap of her fingers, she can alter people's perception of her tree farm, she can alter people's physical being via that Anson Mouth scene, she can tear people apart in ribbons... these are all the things Thanos needed stones to do... Beginning to think dropping a temple on yourself won't actually result in your death really...

[@RobertMorgan]

she did almost kill Thanos before singlehandedly...

[@jacksimpson8529]

@@RobertMorgan Even wackier is that this movie just went and straight up confirmed that she coulda killed him on her own. After all, the Wanda who rips through the Illuminati is depowered Wanda, rather than Scarlet Witch or Darkhold-enhanced Wanda, so it's basically her as she was in Civil War and Age of Ultron. Actually, probably a bit weaker, since she's living in a home with two kids and there's no signs that she's an active Avenger like Sacred Wanda was, who would have had opportunities to expand and grow her powers while training with the other Avengers. So if she can turn Reed into spaghetti, casually remove BB's mouth and slaughter Professor X in a mind duel.....why not just do that to Thanos? Fucking hell, she could have completely beaten him in Infinity War had she just thought to turn the hand in in the Infinity Gauntlet into spaghetti. How's he supposed to do the Snap or even activate the Gauntlet if his hand's being unravelled like that?

[@JulianDoe]

When the universe is at risk Dr. Strange brings thousands of soldiers and all the heroes known to the MCU (even Howard the Duck). Then the MULTIverse is at risk Dr. Strange brings a couple of hundred sorcerers.

[@Arko777777]

Couple of hundred sorcerers and dozens of them are using bows instead of actual magic xD

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@Grant you think that would stop Strange from contacting whatever Heroes are left to save _the Multiverse?_ If Wanda kills America Chavez and takes her powers, _all_ of reality in the MCU is at risk of being enslaved by her.

[@petriew2018]

maybe he just has a Dinsey+ subscription? Lord knows that killed all my enthusiasm for saving their multiverse...

[@Сайтамен]

@Grant By most you mean 3?

[@Сайтамен]

Well that time they were fighting a physical massive force (even though the enemies had one sorcerer). This time it's purely magical fight.

[@jsokobo]

“Reed Richards is my favorite Marvel Comics character, so it was a real honor to get to write his first entry in the MCU.” - Michael Waldron, writer of Doctor Strange 2.

[@RandomVideoApparatus]

........🤔

[@Klespyrian]

I'd be quite curious to know that man's IQ.

[@RolyatSille]

“Alright team, we have the Multiverse of Madness. We’re operating in the Multiverse. So let’s completely ignore that and spend the entire time in between two main universes.” “Great. Easy set up. What next?” “Okay, our Doctor Strange knows next to nothing about the multiverse, aside from the knowledge he previously exhibited and his experience messing with it. So they’ll be as blind as the audience.” “Oh, okay. So over the course of the film, they’re steadily going to understand the mechanics and intricacies of the multiverse so that our little friend will learn how to control her power?” “No! That’s the best part! They’re going to go to a universe where they are already know everything about the multiverse and teach none of it to Strange or America. Instead, the big reveal is that America had full control of her power ALL ALONG! Even after the other universe characters start to trust our Strange, they still don’t really tell him much of anything!” “Okay… Well, we did have that scene where she stomps out a part of a building with her power…” “No, no, she was scared then. So it still follows the previous rules until the reveal.” “Actually, America gets scared a lot. Why didn’t she rip open a hole during that time or while she was being chased by the hex monsters in either instance if a bee was all it took before? Only happened after Ponytail Strange basically died and she was about to die.” “It’s those kinda questions that get you booted, Jerry.”

[@Ramsey276one]

LOVED THIS XD

[@DiZtheJedi]

I assume Jerry got thrown out the window afterwards.

[@Сайтамен]

4 universes, but ok.

[@RolyatSille]

@@Сайтамен If you honestly want to consider the Between-Space and inverted universe, then I will question your judgment but point you at the qualifier "main". There's not a meaningful amount of exploration and/or screentime spent in either location to really qualify them as reasonably explored in the way the comment is making fun of. The first might as well be a Smash Ultimate custom stage and the second is just a brief glimpse at what an inversion does before immediately spending the rest of the scene in the sanctum. 838's establishing was covered in questionable scenes, but at the very least it had more than 2 locations.

[@calumbarry1829]

@@RolyatSille I hate everytime the MCU writers say that this is "a place between time/space/universes" which funnily enough it was the same writer who did them all, what the hell is a place between universes?

[@Nexus_Hives]

Mauler: "Next weeks efap will indeed be a Moon Knight breakdown" Toxic Brood: " LIES"

[@zyxluz4645]

Liar! I see through the lies of the Longman!

[@Strydercj2001]

Anakian skywalker: "LIAR"

[@sparkypack]

Ares: Liessss!!!

[@josh11735]

@@sparkypack MauLer: We’ll do part 2 next week, Moon Knight will need to be pushed back Ares: THEN I WILL DESTROY YOU!!

[@kylefrank638]

Moon Knight took a fall HARD especially at the end, and it definitely deserves coverage, but I'm starved for the rest of the DCEU watch parties! Aquaman, BoP and Shazamers are still on the cutting room floor, and it's been what, nine months since the Snydercut's video?

[@Arko777777]

Wanda disintegrates Black Bolt, Mr. Fantastic, and Prof. Xavier in seconds, but had an actual fight with the female heroes. Also, why don't you evaporate Captain Marvel, as she's clearly the strongest one there (except Black Bolt who died like an idiot thanks to Reed telling her his power) and I don't buy that she died there to a stone statue falling on her, she's a super-strong being...

[@VexdinLord]

You'd think, but I've heard leaks that our universes version of that statue is gonna be the main villain of the next Captain Marvel movie.

[@SmuTheDJ]

She could've killed all 4 at once if we go with the scripts logic of how power Levels work. And let's face it Captain Rambeau (yes I call her that) somehow survived being crushed by that statue but the audience is led to believe that she died

[@properduction2586]

@@SmuTheDJ But wasn’t that the basic Wanda (no dark hold powers ) fighting the discount Illuminati ? If that’s true then that makes it even worse.. The worst mental gymnastics MCU fanboys are pulling out of their asses is that she’s “ too OP “ ..

[@thepaladin4335]

That’s my thing… it was kinda lame… but I’m thinking Capt Marvel 2 could’ve literally go toe to toe with her… but to complete destroy Xavier… hmm I find it a little questionable but it’s the mcu version 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@TrajGreekFire]

Diying like an idiot is if he killed himself, it was f4 man's fault

[@Delatrow]

Funny that Multiverse of Madness pretty much just destroys the video they covered on 184. Where Wanda apperantly did "nothing wrong."

[@amanibob1416]

It vindicated them on almost every level, both ironically and quite sadly, in a "for fawk sake, we saw it coming" kind of way. Utterly dismaying, yet we kinda knew it'll be on this level of bad. Just glad I've had my spoodermun trilogy bought and re-re-...-re-watched beforehand, to dull the pain.

[@Сайтамен]

This video was so insane that those arguments would defend even Wanda in this movie.

[@Delatrow]

I honestly expect a video from somebody who will try to defend Wanda in the movie.

[@eggsbenedict2251]

Wanda is literally Hitler.

[@amanibob1416]

@@eggsbenedict2251 I think I'd agree with you, if not at the cost of further ruining the meaningfulness of the word "literally" for the sake of Wanda. She's already hollowed and evil, let's not sacrifice literally just to spit on the ashes. Please.

[@mister-x2]

“Some people might say, ‘Oh, it would’ve been so cool to see Doctor Strange. But it would have taken away from Wanda. We didn’t want the end of the show to be commoditized to go to the next movie - here’s the white guy, ‘Let me show you how power works.’” - This is a literal quote from Kevin Feige.

[@Ramsey276one]

BRILLIANT

[@GhostLink92]

What a hack.

[@egomania2792]

Do you have a source for that? Not that I don't believe you, because he has said shit like that before, but because I kinda wanna see the interview or whatever where he said that myself.

[@k3nny111]

Ok. At this point. Burn it all down.

[@igorpedro8995]

@@egomania2792 I searched for it the other day I typed in the most direct way possible "why wasn't Dr strange in wandavision" and saw 2 or 3 articles with this same quote in all of them.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

3:24:43 Fringy put it brutally well here, Wanda only cares about Vision so much as to use his corpse as a justification for her atrocities.

[@Relugus]

It's Chthon-Wanda. You keep forgetting the Darkhold. Darkhold = Chthon, the same dude who gave Wanda Chaos Magic at birth, and built the temple. The throne is Chthon's throne. The N'Garai demons bow to Wanda because Chthon is possessing her, because the N'Gsrai serve Chthon.

[@DropDeadDebater]

@@Relugus They never say that in the movie, therefore it’s a null point. All they say in the movie is that she’s corrupted which means she’s still in control of her own actions. Of her own accord, she went out and used her family as a scapegoat for mass murder

[@pokespartytv8086]

@@Relugus lol

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@@Relugus no, fuck that, Wanda's been like this since WandaVision. I'm not giving her an out with this film's shit writing.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@@Relugus and since all of this is clearly from the comics, it's irrelevant to this EFAP, because Marvel didn't give a shit, either.

[@annatardlordofderps9181]

We're living in a universe of infinite outcomes and infinite occurrence of every outcome and the MCU is only CHOOSING THE STUPID ONES.

[@Ramsey276one]

Painfully accurate

[@cosmictreason2242]

Multiverse proven false by that alone

[@Jedi_Spartan]

So like modern reality...

[@chasehedges6775]

Sooooo true. It’s baffling that we are making mediocre products instead of making good stuff that is created with substance.

[@TheCustodians]

I like how we're supposed to believe that the other world's Wanda is going to live a happy life with her kids in our Wanda's stead. When this Wanda walked into the illuminati's headquarters and brutally killed some of the most loved heroes on the planet on camera. She's going to prison for the rest of her life if she's lucky. "No you don't understand, another universe me controlled my body and made me kill all these people as maliciously as possible." "......." Wanda then is shot on the spot.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

I love how that other Wanda doesn't give a shit that she was just possessed and forced to kill the most popular heroes in her universe and destroyed their base.

[@isaiahbridges7442]

They know she was dreamwalking....

[@TheCustodians]

@@isaiahbridges7442 who does? The dead illuminati?

[@shawklan27]

@@grandarkfang_1482 holy shit that is a MAJOR plot hole I've haven't noticed!

[@DuneStone6816]

Well, both Mordo and Christine presumably know that their Wanda was being possessed, so they should be able to explain anyone who would otherwise want to charge her with murder. However, our Evil Wanda did disrupt the life of a Wanda who appeared to previously be living peacefully. This may result of everyone now being afraid of Innocent Wanda even if they know it wasn’t her fault.

[@armoredghost918]

Why the hell weren’t white vision and Hawkeye in this movie? They are the two most important people alive to wanda

[@grandarkfang_1482]

Because the writer and producer for this film are too stupid to think that far ahead.

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

Timing issues on filming? The writer forgot they existed? They chose not to be in the movie? Feige said no to them in the movie? Take your pick.

[@WrathofArchon]

@@yetanotherspuart3993 i'll take all of them.

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

@@WrathofArchon Same, but the last one about Feige is likely the most accurate.

[@petriew2018]

@@yetanotherspuart3993 this movie was written and shot before Hawkeye and Wandavision, which may play some part in it as well

[@Necromancer4267]

Why didn't they cast the spell to make everyone in the universe forget America Chavez (except for her parents)?

[@mrminecraftcubeable]

Don't think about it

[@SadEyes1412]

Oh. lol

[@dodojesus4529]

Its on cooldown, can only be cast every 5 years cause fuck it

[@alensmit3664]

Probably was too late or sorcerers magic cannot do anything against Darkhold corrupted Wanda.

[@TheScarletLad]

If they wanted to go for horror elements, why not personify the influence of the book as a shadowy, red eyed Vision who’s playing on her desires for a family and fractured mind. Have Nega Vision torture her with his words when she falters, use the voice of the children saying ‘Mommy’ back to back while she tries to shut it out. Basically, I’m saying at add some real madness. The book really does influence the holder and Unstable Wanda was the worst person to pick it up. They could have even had Strange’s demon on the shoulder be Mordo. And the book reveals the reason we haven’t seen him is because there was a battle not long after he became sorcerer supreme and Strange killed him. He could have taken him prisoner to be judged by his peers, but he made the executive decision to execute him (He’s always got to be the one holding the knife) and he’s been carrying that weight ever since. It’s why he’s not happy, he doesn’t think he deserves to be after that. Him conquering the book could be by coming to terms with what he did. Wanda and Strange can still have a final showdown (if it all just has to end in fight). Strange wins but it’s tough to watch. It’s not a heroic battle, it’s a protracted mercy killing. After that, he tells his peers and Wong what he did to Mordo, and some other things he’s not proud of, and submits himself to their judgement, whatever that might be. …But that takes just a crum, the lightest dusting of talent.

[@x43902467]

It sounds like a damn good movie, but there's no way they'd do that in an MCU movie.

[@thepaladin4335]

Love it‼️‼️ once again one person has a better damn plot point than the actual movie

[@somethingwitty3300]

That sounds pretty shit honestly

[@Zero_2500]

More substance in 3 paragraphs than in a 2 hour movie.

[@Party_Almsivi]

(Strange is asleep, presumably dreaming as ponytail strange explodes into his room through a portal) “STEVEN! It’s America! America Chavez! She’s the key!… Am I too soon?! I’m too soon! (Ponytail strange clearly strains against the forces of the portal) YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT THE WITCH, YOU WERE ALWAYS RIGHT ABOUT HER! FEAR HER, AND FIND US! FIND US STEVEN!”

[@alexwisecup4167]

The second I heard Strange justify Wanda's actions, I thought of EFAP. Thanks for the stream boys.

[@amanibob1416]

Eh, same, it's like walking into a wrestling theater, hearing Dr.Derp dismissing "Big Morally No-No" stuff... You know there will be a fight and you'll -be- cheering for the good guys. Just saying, at this point, it ain't like we don't know ahead of time, whichever side the EFAP trio will stand for, nor why they'd never side for "ze consoomer narrative". Edit: -correction-

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@Grant When he told her that she set everything right in Westview, when all she did was enslave 3,892 people, and get away with it.

[@Сайтамен]

I watched it without subtitles and maybe overheard that line, so I was glad that the film finally treats her like a villain which she is...but then in the finale she gets Doctor Octopus moment...or Darth Vader moment...which she honestly doesn't deserve.

[@Сайтамен]

@Grant "I won't talk about Westview, You were justifiably angry"

[@Сайтамен]

@Grant I just listed two phrases

[@DivergentZen]

It's an infinite multiverse but she needs to find a universe where her alternate self exists with children and not one where she could rescue and adopt her alternate versions of children where they lost their mother to Thanos or some other calamity.

[@Relugus]

I think it's that Chthon wants Wanda to literally and figuratively destroy herself. But of course the movie never goes beyond "muh babies".

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

@@Relugus That makes me think: why would Chthon need to exploit Wanda's loss? Let's assume Wanda was after America because it was actually Chthon's idea: what does Chthon exactly gain from America's powers being taken from Wanda?

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@@matteomastrodomenico1231 nothing, he's just gonna keep mentioning shit from the comics because that's the only way the Darkhold makes sense.

[@calumbarry1829]

@@Relugus if the movie never goes beyond muh babies then that's all we can work with, quit tossing comic shit in.

[@happybirthdaypaulie8584]

The Illuminati fight scene playing out like a turn-based RPG was not good rat.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

It was a turn-based SuperBoss fight.

[@Ramsey276one]

FOR REAL?!

[@smugalice6206]

“I rolled a 1.” “Right. Your character panics and turns his mind to mush.”

[@Relugus]

Wanda > Summon > Chthon The move that gets you insta wins.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@@Relugus there is no Chthon.

[@venomsnake4042]

I love how when Strange finds the book of vishanti, he forgets to CLOSE THE DOOR that leads to it and lets Wanda come in and destroy it. I also loved how the trailers hyped up the Illuminati but they were absolutely useless in the movie. Reed Richards, the smartest man in the Marvel Universe, tells Wanda how Black Bolts power works in front of her which gets him killed and then gets turned into spaghetti. Thanks Disney

[@marorerimeraremaro2533]

The sheer fact that Wanda could alter Black Bolt's physique already breaks the story to pieces. She should be beyond unstoppable if she can literally tamper with reality this quickly and easily. She literally looked at him and went "what mouth" without making a single gesture. Also, wtf was Reed thinking about mentioning Black Bolt's powers? Is he going to vaporize their own Wanda to kick the evil one back to her universe? lmao

[@rahmellbrown162]

@@marorerimeraremaro2533 and she can do that but doesn’t do that to Captain Carter?

[@venomsnake4042]

@@rahmellbrown162 That move would've been pretty useful against Thanos...

[@rahmellbrown162]

@@venomsnake4042 Exactly!!

[@calumbarry1829]

@@venomsnake4042 tbf I assume it's a move she gained after WandaVision when she came to understand what she actually is. Even then though it's bizarre why she almost never does this shit.

[@stevesamuals2651]

Not gonna lie, drunk magic caster sounds like it'd be funny to watch fight a monster. Be funny to see strange shoot alcohol at the monster, realize what he's doing, then light it on fire

[@wangusbeef86]

Imagine Jackie Chan but he's a Wizard, he'd be throwing ladders and furniture at you all day lol.

[@nont18411]

How they treated the illuminati in this movie is such a disgrace, especially Reed Richards and Professor X death.

[@GhostLink92]

I mean, X's death seemed like a callback to when Jean kills him. But they wasted his character.

[@nont18411]

@@GhostLink92 Even when Jean killed him, he still died with dignity. The death in this movie is pure pathetic.

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

@@nont18411 how is it pathetic? Because it’s not thematic? It doesn’t have to be. She goes on a slaughter. It’s like looking for many themes in a doomsday fight.

[@micahwright5901]

@@mrmxyzptlk8906 Yeah, we don’t know these characters. They don’t deserve impactful deaths. However, the movie did act like they were supposed to be important, so it goes both ways.

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

@@micahwright5901 huh? When did the movie imply that. It’s called multiverse of madness and they’re in an alternate universe where doctor strange was killed. Not having an essential piece isn’t important. It’s just cool to see what’s to come but also how powerful Wanda is.

[@urbanguy1191]

There’s something funny about hearing: “Wanda wants to steal America’s power to enslave the multiverse.”

[@chasehedges6775]

Tbh, that is kinda funny

[@nont18411]

I remember that the villain of the movie was supposed to be “Nightmare” when they first announced. It’s like they changed the script along the way and made Wanda the villain because they read negative comments about her from Wandavision.

[@samzilla567]

Reading the early script leaks and knowing the film went through heavy reshoots, that doesn't surprise me.

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

Was Nightmare ever actually confirmed? As far as I remember, it was just the villain fans were hoping for.

[@assassinscreedwalkthroughs7314]

@@matteomastrodomenico1231 There is a kids book about Dr. Strange where Nightmare was the main villain. It was supposed to be a book tie in to the movie

[@MrAhriman42]

The best idea in the film is Strange having to possess his own corpse. That could have been most of the movie, with him falling apart inconveniently until the end when he's a a torso with one arm. Then he's disabled and has to trust his protegé, which Strange is really bad at.

[@x43902467]

That was the ONLY part of the movie I thought was clever, setup, payoff. It was interesting and a novel solution to a problem. 2 hour movie, one clever bit. The only other good stuff were the visuals.

[@Top_G_wannabe]

Why did captain carter last the longest in the fight when she was easily the weakest

[@NicTheGreek1979]

Vajeen.

[@TrajGreekFire]

She was the third one to die out of the 4

[@redbearington3345]

Black captain marvel lasted longest

[@TheArmoredArtichoke]

Woman

[@DuneStone6816]

To be fair, a lot of action movies have this tendency to have their main characters quickly cut through dozens of extras but then have long, drawn out fights with other main characters. So no one in the Illuminate should have lasted long (excepted maybe Professor X) but we know their names, so movie rules dictate the fight has to last. But to give you a short answer, Carter's one of only two women in the group.

[@archstanton9073]

I still don't know why Strange didn't use the hell out of the Mirror Dimension. He could have trapped that tentacle monster in. He could have hid America there indefinitely until they dealt with Wanda. He did try to trap her there which was good but she found her way out. It seems like the forgot what Dr. Strange's move set is.

[@Сайтамен]

@Grant She got away seriously injured, so do it again.

[@archstanton9073]

@Grant I said that in my original post. I also said that he should have used it more often since it would be a great place to hide someone or to stop a rampaging monster.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@Grant that's not how the fucking Mirror Dimension works.

[@sparkypack]

yknow, Strange kinda forgot. He also forgot about portals and general use of magic. - strangebilbus dumbeldordanerys.

[@Сайтамен]

@Grant It takes her time.

[@jeebuschristos8423]

I feel so bad for Michael Stuhlbarg... he shows up for a five minute scene... goes through the actor's prep... make-up... grew out some stubble... and then acted his heart out in that scene... only to have his entire performance undermined by the standard Marvel "isn't the Snap funny?!?!?" by his lamenting his loss of his cats which, apparently, was harder on him than losing his brother...

[@GenericGooner]

America opens a multiverse portal whenever she is scared or highly anxious, outside of her control… yet not a single portal appears throughout the entirety of the battle with the starro monster at the beginning?

[@issackriss8496]

She has to open a portal when Wanda scaried the shit out of her when she was trying to look into the water puddle like bee thing. This movie is a joke

[@Jedi_Spartan]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone justified it as the power having a 'cooldown' as if she's in a video game rather than in a movie.

[@RobertMorgan]

she should be sharting portals all over the place

[@dodojesus4529]

@@Jedi_Spartan its not like the next movie shes in will torpedo that excuse in a nanosecond

[@cray986]

Wanda sending those creatures instead of going herself only makes sense as a way to hide herself from blame. It doesn't make any sense for it to be "mercy."

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

No, it's "mercy" because it's weaker and thus gives you an opportunity to escape and survive... Which is retarded in a whole other way.

[@chasehedges6775]

It’s just lazy writing, honestly. Feel bad for Elizabeth Olsen. She tried her best

[@fr0ck360]

Strange could’ve at least try Astral Projection like he did against Peter during the first confrontation

[@nont18411]

He kinda forgot about his own power but we didn’t forget about him.

[@dire213]

it's funny how no way home remembers Strange's moveset more than multiverse of madness

[@Galgus2000]

Perfect solution to dreamwalking.

[@CaptainTitforce]

@@nont18411 Bloody fucking hell, I can't believe how easily I can just imagine that stupid face with that stupid background, anytime one of the D&D quotes show up.

[@HectorLopez0217]

Strange: Wanda! I’ve come to bargain. Wanda: You’ve come to die this universe is mine. Like all universes.

[@Сайтамен]

I don't get why she needs all universes. At worst she will enslave only one where her kids are real (and I don't believe she can make Hex around a planet, let alone the universe).

[@HectorLopez0217]

@@Сайтамен I think Wong asks, and her response is “in case they get sick with something another universe has the cure for.” Which is the good faith interpretation, but I think it’s in case they die she can go take another Wanda’s children

[@johannesseyfried7933]

@@HectorLopez0217 Which might piss some of the Scarlet Witches off. I can already see it: *WAR OF THE WANDAS*

[@Сайтамен]

@@HectorLopez0217 Ok, but that makes two or three universes out of infinite.

[@paisleesheppard5629]

@@HectorLopez0217 I miss the time where the hero dimension hops, finds the cure, and goes back home. 🤷‍♀️

[@DropDeadDebater]

Hi, I’m Black Bolt. I have the loudest voice known to man and can cause planetary destruction with a casual word. Let me forget how my powers work, try to scream, and kill myself in under five minutes of screen time.

[@Ramsey276one]

O M F G !?! WTF Q_q

[@84C4]

Shouldn't he be immune to his own soundwaves anyway?

[@BTM8109]

Back when Strange was summoning all those butterflies, the writer was treating him with respect and awe. Now he's a comic relief goof.

[@DocPasdepot]

Wanda escaping from the mirror dimension "because she's super powerful" is as dumb and pathetic as Majin Buu escaping from the hyperbolic time chamber in DBZ "Because he's mega super powerful" 🤦‍♂

[@An_Actual_Rat]

You made me remember how in Dragon Ball Super, Jiren breaks out of temporal stasis because he is "stronger than time."

[@amogus1415]

I mean in dragonball its fine,cause its established multiple times that buu has reality warping powers and unlike wanda he doesnt fight captain america lmao

[@amogus1415]

@@An_Actual_Rat i mean theres nothing wrong with that,it was set up in the previous arc with zamasu becoming a timeline,and he has no antifeats.Its also been established that if youre stronger than your opponents their hax dont work on you

[@DarkXVenator]

Not as ridiculous as gotenks doing it after having just watched him do it on the first try lol. At least they had a payoff when buhan almost breaks the universe in a rage later on as a last ditch effort

[@papapalps2415]

@@amogus1415"i mean in dragonball its fine,cause its established multiple times that buu has reality warping powers" 'Having reality warping powers' and 'breaking out of an isolated pocket dimension' aren't even vaguely fucking close to the same thing. "Its also been established that that if you're stronger than your opponents their hax doesn't work on you." Are you illiterate? Thats. The. Fucking. Problem. Being. Discussed.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

For some reason, the DarkHold and Book of Vishanti can be destroyed by conventional magics/magic-imbued weapons, despite such powerful magical artifacts.

[@eirei0789]

There’s plenty of good criticism of the film, but I don’t see the criticism here. Unless it’s established somewhere in the film that the magic books are supposedly difficult to destroy, they are still books. It’s established that while the books hold power, they can still be destroyed, so that’s the rule we judge them by. What IS puzzling is how Wanda supposedly destroy Darkholds in all universes. The multiversal power we know she has is dreamwalking.

[@x43902467]

@@eirei0789 It becomes a criticism as a "This is the super thing of all time, how has nobody broken/smashed/damaged it before?"

[@Galgus2000]

@@eirei0789 You'd think someone would have put a protective spell on it. Strange casually made an unbreakable seal to guard the time stone, so surely that kind of magic exists.

[@eirei0789]

@@x43902467 I suppose there’s an argument to be had for the Darkhold, where it has had different owners. One could’ve tried to destroy it. It could be argued that the people who actively try to obtain it would be the people who would want to use it. It’s not unreasonable for it to be kept safe, given its massive benefit to the owner. The book of Vishanti is locked away in crazy space and people don’t even believe it existed, that’s many layers of protection from it getting hit by a fireball.

[@eirei0789]

@@Galgus2000 We can think of the space between universes as a big impenetrable seal for the book of Vishanti. To clarify my position, I only argue that the criticism for the books being destructible is not valid. The plot twist of the crucial McGuffin being destroyed can be done right. But the way that Wanda was able to waltz in unnoticed and blast the book is undoubtedly stupid.

[@drliamo9049]

Dr Strange talks like he's an undercover human trying to fit in at an alien convention 🤣

[@azh698]

That's just Benadryl Cumberbunt.

[@marorerimeraremaro2533]

A point to consider as well. When Xavier is trying to reach good Wanda and snap her out of the dreamwalk state, the visualisation we get is him moving his physical dream body around and doing shit, and dies when physical dream Wanda snaps his neck. Does that mean every time he enters somebody's mind, the power struggle is between Xavier and the other person in a realm where he can simply walk but is still an old dude lmao. That's how i saw it anyway. What a terrible movie. P.S.: The Darkhold doesn't enhance the powers of the reader, it simply gives the desired knowledge and in the process corrupts the reader's mind. For a "better" understanding you could watch Agents of SHIELD Season 4 as most of the events are linked to, if not outright triggered, by people who take possession of the Darkhold (the original one).

[@Arko777777]

Agreed. Xavier should be way more powerful in the mind realm. My reaction to that scene was: "So Wanda's brain is literally empty white void with two piles of rubble? Now her stupid behavior makes sense!"

[@Franz_Morhart]

THE CRITICS HAVE SPOKEN!!! #DoctorStrange II is (in my opinion) a cameo filled empty disaster, with less horror than Sam Raimi in it. And more of a WandaVision sequel than a Doctor Strange sequel. So, naturally, it has an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes.

[@petriew2018]

you'll have to wait a year before the rotten tomatoes score actually matters, that's typically when their contract with the studio runs out

[@GrecianWarlock]

One of the ways they could've saved this movie is if Wanda's motivation wasn't just for her fake kids and vision, but for Pietro, Natasha, Tony, Steve, and anyone else who was affected by the snap. Wanda's motivation could've been selfish but understandable. That longing for family is what the Darkhold has corrupted. This could've been an ideological debate about power and if you should do something just because you can. Wanda is no doubt powerful and very little should be able to stop her, but she isn't impervious. The book should've been using her to make her think she could save/bring everyone back when the real goal was to use her power to release someone like Cthon or Mephisto. But no, we got woman crazy cus woman powerful. The most disrespectful thing is she got boiled down to being a mother and nothing else. Her whole character exists to serve the lives of another. 🙄

[@DuneStone6816]

Yeah, this film bizarrely seems to forget just how many people Wanda has lost in her life and hyper-fixates on just her sons.

[@Relugus]

This. It's Chthon's temple we see, and Wanda is his avatar, so he is clearly pulling the strings, but the story makes her entire character about the kids, and ignores the profound loss that the Darkhold aka Chthon is exploiting. I think they focus on the kids because Raimi and Waldron are not interested in Wanda other than as a prop, only in using her for their story. I think and hope the rumoured SW solo movie will fix Raimi and Waldron's blunders.

[@spendsshanks6050]

@@DuneStone6816 Her fake kids

[@Сайтамен]

Steve is alive though. It was his choice to retire.

[@GrecianWarlock]

@@Сайтамен They make it clear in FATWS that he's passed away. At least I thought they did

[@michaelanton3838]

I have a question about Wong's joke re: the books you only get when you become Sorcerer Supreme. This could just be an assumption on my part, but wasn't Strange the Sorcerer Supreme in the time between Dr. Strange and Infinity War? And if Strange was Sorcerer Supreme during that period, then wouldn't he have had access to that super secret book, which, given his tendency to throw himself utterly into learning everything he can about sorcery, would suggest that he should have already read it, and therefore known the Book of Vishanti was real? And if my assumption was wrong, and Dr. Strange wasn't the Sorcerer Supreme during that period, who was? Wong wasn't - he explicitly only became Sorcerer Supreme after Dr. Strange blipped. Maybe it was a third party? If so, where the heck were they when all this was happening, with, as Strange himself said, "the fate of the universe at stake?" Did Dr. Strange and Wong just fail to bring them into the loop? But that theory falls apart because Wong says "The Sanctum remains unguarded" to Banner after Strange gets taken by Ebony Maw, implying that there is no Sorcerer Supreme left to defend the Sanctum. So perhaps there was no Sorcerer Supreme at all during the events of Infinity War? But that's a two-year gap - why on earth would the sorcerers wait that long to select a new Sorcerer Supreme? The short answer is they clearly did not. Strange had to have been the Sorcerer Supreme during that window, and therefore should have known about both the super secret book that Wong received, and by extension the Book of Vishanti. Ask yourself - if Dr. Strange was not the Sorcerer Supreme and addressed as such and/or referred to himself as such during the events of Infinity War, how would Peter even know that the title of Sorcerer Supreme exists? And why would he assume that Strange held that title? The most simple explanation logically is that Strange was Sorcerer Supreme, but got blipped, and Wong became Sorcerer Supreme while he was gone and Strange did not regain the title upon his return. Which makes perfect sense. Except that all gets thrown out the window by Wong's comment here. Which makes no sense, but hey, we got a joke out of it, right? On an unrelated note, I'm very excited to hear that you guys will be reviewing the Halo series. As someone who has been heavily invested in the games and lore of Halo for the past twenty years, I've been heavily skeptical of things I've heard about the show, but I look forward to hearing what your take on it!

[@calumbarry1829]

Strange absolutely was the sorcerer Supreme, it's said about 1000 times throughout his appearances and references. The idea is that he was given the books but he never read them because "readings for NYEERDS" which just isn't Strange character in the slightest.

[@issackriss8496]

@@calumbarry1829 bro. All strange does in the nights in the first movie is read the books. That's how he met Wong the librarian and found the missing papers which drove the first movie.

[@michaelplowman8674]

Strange was Sorcerer Supreme for 2 years before getting blipped. I thought the same thing during the movie. Just another case of a writer not knowing the character history and making up what they need for a scene.

[@gottesurteil3201]

Yes I agree the real Dr. Strange would have read the secret book, located the Book of Vishanti, and used it to stop Wanda from enslaving an entire town, and to keep the villains of infinite universes from trying to kill Peter. I'm so disappointed in how they ruined Dr. Strange.

[@chrisacker7791]

Never forget kevin feige removing scenes in wandavision of strange bc he didnt want the "white guy" to overshadow her in her own show. Yet he has wanda do that in stranges movie 😂

[@-Azure.EXE-]

It's incredible how we haven't even scratched the surface of how bad this movie gets.

[@nont18411]

The amount of exposition in this movie is insane. Christine: “She (Wanda) was doing the right thing.” The movie emphasis on this so much to tell us that Wanda is a good guy now. Ffs Also, why did they need an urge to introduce each hero of the Illuminati by name to Strange? And how Peggy Carter threw a shield at Strange for no reason is so ridiculous.

[@-Azure.EXE-]

The meeting began before 2 of them were there just so they could hype their entrance. Reed just teleports in, mid meeting and Prof X slides in from off stage after listening to the meeting until then. The music going mad as these randos get introduced is the most obvious bait to coom over nothing. Watching it work so well on my cinema just made me depressed.

[@DuneStone6816]

Most of the Illuminati came as off-puttingly smug in their introductory scene. Which is odd to think back on, now knowing the context of their relationship with their own Strange.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

She was putting him in his place, don't you know? Because that's what Earth's Mightiest Heroes should be acting like: smug, petulant children that use their abilities to silence their opponents. Because with great power comes no accountability.

[@calumbarry1829]

I burst out laughing when he literally just said "Carl" and almost got f*cking murdered.

[@OceanbornAngel]

These thoughts just entered my mind as you talk of the Tentacle Monster and all of the obvious deaths that occurred during that battle. It strikes me how unconcerned Feige and his writer are with the loss of human life. I just was reminded of the Metropolis Battle in Superman II and how Superman was consciously aware of all of the people being harmed by General Zod, Non and Ursa. That he was forced to concede the battle and come up with a less dangerous plan to stop Zod that didn't put the people in harm's way. The lack of concern for human life in this Dr. Strange movie has me thinking what has humanity become that innocent humans dying and our alleged "heroes" not caring is just okay?

[@RobertMorgan]

Scarlet Witch in this movie would be like someone imagining an entire life, realizing that life was imagined, and deciding to deal with that personal issue by stealing a nuclear weapon and leveling a city. The best part of this movie was the amazing music in the TRAILER.

[@Wyzai]

2:59:40 This just makes me think of how corruption worked in a random Netflix series I watched: The Magicians. "corruption" didn't suddenly turn you evil. It just removed your emotions and value for human life. You would still care for people around you in a way, since it goes deeper than just the principle. The villain, having lived like that for a very long time, obviously had no issues with any kind of massacres for personal gain. However, other people in that state could be taught to behave normally. or we could just make shit up at random and not think about it.

[@cokeMONSTERps3]

I wasn't expecting it to be THAT bad.

[@sparkypack]

We need to prepare. It gets a whole lot worse.

[@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756]

at this point, I did. Disney only makes crap now, its a golden rule for new cinema and tv

[@arenkai]

I love how the Magic in this universe always does exactly what it's supposed to do to get drama and/or stakes rolling because there is absolutely no baseline for what those characters can do. They also make a point to differentiate Wizardry from Witchcraft, but when it's time to use the Witch spell book, Strange can do it no problem, how does that work exactly ? Strange knows Witchcraft ?

[@stevesamuals2651]

I was legitimately confused on what the plot was supposed to be when the light prognostic was destroyed. I had no idea what the story even was at that point

[@Coaltergeist]

I was waiting for someone to say "iT's A COpY!"

[@Shrike1988]

Wanda deals with deep seeded issues featuring American Chaves guest starring Dr strange. Just trying to find more accurate titles for this mess.

[@TheSlammurai]

"Starring Wanda and America Chavez, also Dr. Strange is here too"

[@petriew2018]

"disney sludge. part 8... or whatever, continuity is for lesser beings"

[@nont18411]

Even Christine Palmer still has more prominent role in the movie than Strange

[@kirathekillernote2173]

Mensturation of Madness

[@chasehedges6775]

Dr Strange In The Multiverse of Mediocrity and Averageness . I think this is a good title for this mess.

[@FxCalibur]

The 3rd Pokemon movie did a better want vs need story than Strange 2. Beyond that it made more sense for Molly to heel turn after Delilah spent the entire movie trying to convince her and ultimately Entei, than Wanda doing it after literally the first fucking try after all the bad shit she had willingly done. Also, the end of both films has the MC getting a new power, for Ash it was Charizard and Strange it was the Darkhold and both lose the fight. Thing is though, Ash's Zard actually put up a fight unlike Strange who only got a decent one-liner in before getting his shit kicked.

[@charmandyorton006]

I miss movies that were actually written like movies

[@sarwatarannya8786]

You know it's bad when you can actually take lessons from a Pokémon film

[@calumbarry1829]

Wtf actually is happening to Strange in the end and the post credits scene? He's walking casually and then he's writhing in pain as an eye appears out of his forehead, then he's walking casually again and is now cool with an eye appearing out of his forehead. What even is that?

[@FxCalibur]

@@calumbarry1829 The eye is supposed to be the drawback from using the Darkhold as Sinister Strange had it. It might look like a drawback, but it gives him a pretty decent power boost and allows him to see shit that most mages can't. As for the random quacking in fear to being casual with it in the next shot, thats supposed to be Rami's take on comedy. Which I don't blame Rami for this, Disney is now notorious for hiring directors for name alone and directing over them.

[@calumbarry1829]

@@FxCalibur I'm assuming that's comic stuff right? Cause if that's the case then I don't know if I can even take your word for it, the MCU will make anything anything. Plus it wasn't really quaking in fear it was more that it was genuinely painful, if it was fear then the first reaction would be "WTF AHHHH" not falling to your knees and screaming

[@michaelanton3838]

Another point - why didn't the portal open as soon as Defender Strange tried to absorb America's power? Wouldn't the fear of her being about to die, coupled with the shock of being "betrayed" by, for lack of a better word, her defender, be enough to trigger her powers, given that at this point it is brought on by high-stress, dangerous situations?

[@TheCustodians]

Why do they never bring up Hulk in these things? Not only is he physically one of the strongest beings around. But he's also one of the smartest beings around. Have him build a time machine trap that radically ages or de-ages Wanda like he did to ant man in endgame. If America Chavez can stager Wanda, Hulk can kill her. I mean if What If is "canon" then we already know Hulk can, at the very least, last against scarlet witch (in the stupid dumb zombie one). Hulk could have cleaned up the flag smashers in an afternoon. He could have at least HELPED with Westview. And none of spider-man's villains would last even a minute against him. Why don't they ever call my man up?

[@eggsbenedict2251]

Hulk is male.

[@YourPrivateNightmare]

because he's green and retired

[@jakurz4297]

@@YourPrivateNightmare I understood that reference!

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@@jakurz4297 I don't, what's the reference?

[@acidk44]

Its the same problem as superman... If superman is soo super why every hero gotta go through so bad arcs pr difficulty with their villains? And there lies the problem with both these universes and how stories are written

[@IshanDeston]

4:13:50 How do deal with the Sling Ring: You make it an line earlier in the movie when they get to the Temple thingy... and have one of them be like "Activate the Defenses!" and someone goes "but that will cut us of, nothing will get in or out!" and have it be "dismissed" as necessary and then have the scene about Strange going "we need to get out of here" and his spell fizzles and Wang is like "The Defenses are still active! We need to get to the MagicalMcGuffin to shut them down first before we can teleport out of here!"

[@Timothy_-ve2zp]

Wanda is one of my most favorite characters in the MCU and she had been assassinated in this movie. I hope she’s actually dead because they’ve now done so much damage that there is no returning to what she once was. The best way to incorporate her character going forward is to introduce variants of Wanda Maximoff, who’re actually true to the character.

[@GhostwalkerSparrow]

I think they'll just keep brining her back because no one's really gone

[@amanibob1416]

I mean, in the comics, she's often ended-up dead and/or fawking things up "exponentially", (read "moustache guy with German accent level"), but yeah, I totally agree. She's a good foil, a neat caracter and one in which the audience should, more often than not, find anchor-esque traits we can latch onto and/or emphasize with, so this/these versions, (MCU ones), are now 99% trash, if not all completely bonky-bonkers for the sake of stuff I despite, like "the message", for example. Longoid over

[@SiddharthShenoy]

She's definitely coming back. Elizabeth Olsen just got a contract extension for like 7 films.

[@Сайтамен]

She was assasinated in Wandavision.

[@petriew2018]

@@SiddharthShenoy i'm all for this.... as long as they're not marvel films... she's a good actress, just being massively let down by Disney's refusal to hire scriptwriters

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

I seriously don't understand why so many people (especially those that usually criticize MCU movies the most) thought this movie was good. Yes, you can see Raimi's style and that it tries to deviate from the formula, but that alone doesn't make it good.

[@felipet.m.]

2:25:00 I think the best scenario there would have been America asking him to kill her, him refusing at first, but when they say there is no other way, he starts to do magic on her, but instead killing her, he gives whatever energy she needs to make her portal and run away. Maybe with an advice from Xtrange about "find him, he will help you" But that took me 3 minutes to think it, we all now in Disney writers don't have that kind of time.

[@ethan_jackline]

When mauler was talking about the hex that Wanda made over the field it made me wonder. Did she enslave those sheep, are the sheep traumatized from suddenly being unable to control their bodies?

[@calumbarry1829]

I imagine they were fake sheep...wait now I don't know if they were just like a projection and weren't actually sentient in any sense or if they're functionally the same as her ghost kids and husband. Oh God this movie

[@dodojesus4529]

@@calumbarry1829 cause if theyre like the kids she can get everything she wants without hurting anyone...wait why cant she just do the hex again if thos ebasic as fuck morals have disappeared again

[@TrueLawbringer]

At 2:15:00 the dream discussion comes up and people don’t mention like a huge part of Iron Man’s character arc came from him being plaques by dreams and visions of thanos for years.

[@cozyku5968]

I just find it funny that Chavez’ traumatic past was caused by a star portal and yet she wears a jacket with a star on it. It’s like a jewish person wearing the no no symbol on their back

[@dodojesus4529]

Not just a jew, a survivor of the big nono

[@asepsisaficionado7376]

@@dodojesus4529 The amount of survivors seems to increase everyday

[@elitesmiley]

That is not the same thing at all you are so disconnected from humanity holy shit

[@JohnSmith-zl1tr]

To be fair jews had to wear a yellow six pointed star on their clothes in the years prior to the big nono, and they still use that as a symbol(ex: the flag of Israel). That said it is a little weird, somewhat similar to her having clothes with bees on them.

[@rebekahdemoss1448]

Bro that tragic backstory was funny as hell 😂

[@patrickkilroy6512]

Remember when the Avengers had the entire world try to shackle them and their operations because of the damage they did to a few cities? But Wanda doesn't even get a slap on the wrist for going psycho on multiple occasions, killing innocent people and enslaving the minds of others? hmmmmm

[@BertzTriscut]

Minor spoilers for Everything, Everywhere, All At Once: One character asks "who cares if you lose a few universes" and I kinda agree if the number is infinite. But in that movie they establish that each choice makes a new universe, so it's not infinite. Ludicrously numerous, but still finite.2nd, they establish that the villain is up to something so destructive that it has the potential to end the multiverse because of the finite nature of it. So ask yourself that question: "who cares if you loses a few worlds?" In a world like the MCU where the number of worlds is literally infinite, that basically kills the stakes. However... there is 1 way that you can make it work. Make it so that the heroes care about the immense life lost. Have them say something like "yeah, we win an infinite number of times and lose the same amount. Maybe there isn't a point in fighting because it doesn't matter. But to those people out there living their lives it does. The egregious loss of life is something that I can't just stand by and let happen. We need to protect these people who don't know anything and think that this is it." Have them care about the loss of innocent life and make that the stakes.

[@kylefrank638]

First MCU breakdown I've ever watched BEFORE the actual media itself. The MCU really aught to have broken me sooner... I think the train-crash analogy is appropriate; WV, FatWS, Black Widow, Loki, that was the actual collision and pyrotechnics, and I couldn't stop *marveling* at the disaster. But I watched the MoM trailer, I looked into some spoilers by choice... and now this is just the torpid, smoldering leftovers. They've completely thrown out appropriate character arcs for easy cameos to get the hype built up, and a slew of callbacks to make all the seats in the theatre moist.

[@AimlessSavant]

Efap coverage is why I don't watch the movie/show they cover after watching. :v exception being Arcane.

[@kylefrank638]

@@AimlessSavant I'm still going to see MoM, just when it's at no cost to me. If you just want to hear fun commentary, that's fine, but if you ever plan to argue against the direction of this film series, you should have first-hand knowledge of what the plots are.

[@AimlessSavant]

@@kylefrank638 with how dense Efap gets into detailing the movie I don't think it is required. Their coverage of Rise of Skywalker was as accurate as how I watched it in theater.

[@kylefrank638]

@@AimlessSavant I still like experiencing- Okay I was about to say I like experiencing Phase 4. No. I *find* *value* in having the most complete picture of the things I have issues with. Even if EFAP is super on-the-ball with a rundown, there will always be little nuggets that maybe they didn't find as bad as I did, or vice versa. There will always be a chance that I take in their criticism, and then it becomes a telephone game (that analogy again) where I don't lay out the problem correctly, thereby "presenting a case" against the movie that *is* legitimate, but I skew the original criticism just enough to where I've done a disservice to pointing out where MoM is lacking.

[@spbynum]

I propose a drinking game: Take a shot or drink every time Fringy utters the phrase “the problem is.”

[@joil6649]

Or every time he says “um”.

[@nathanmartin7550]

How does doctor Strange keep losing his shit. Like his sling ring, in every movie he is in, he gets his sling ring stolen from him. So U would think he would put a Spell on it so no one can take his things. Like the spell he put on the time stone in infinity war

[@hectorbarrera8046]

The multiverse the is canon, so there has to be a universe where Strange attempted to drown Thanos in beer or tried to turn his blood into wine or cum

[@SassyCassie89]

Ya know in my universe the turning blood to cum is why we call him Dr strange.

[@Ramsey276one]

Myriad Worlds Million Fics XD

[@johannesseyfried7933]

Why....cum? 🤨😬🤣

[@smugalice6206]

The Meme Repository approach, I see.

[@Shockguey]

"Hello I'm Mrs. Strange and this is my boyfriend Thanos" "How do you do?"

[@leonardodavi2695]

Mauler, if you decide to make an unbridled rage for this one - and I think you should -, in the scene where Wanda says that all mothers create children through magic, you can quote Wesley Snipes' character from White Men Can't Jump when he says: " that is the most ridiculous piece of philosophical BULLSHIT I have ever heard!"

[@madambutterfly1997]

If he does do this video I really wanna see how he feels about the fight with the illuminati because I had so many problems with it

[@leonardodavi2695]

@@madambutterfly1997 He's probably gonna spend at least half an hour on those few nonsensical minutes

[@madambutterfly1997]

@@leonardodavi2695 I'm counting on it

[@Сайтамен]

It's 6 hours long now. And he used the clip "what rules, you son of bitches?"

[@StandTheOffensive]

Anyone who thinks Dr. Strange 2 is a good film, is perfectly fine with having their intelligence insulted. The is one of the worst written comic book films I’ve ever seen. I completely checked out of this movie when that stupid Kama Taj lady stabbed the book and died, instead of stabbing Wanda. And then there was the Illuminati stuff. 🤦‍♂️ We literally see Wanda bend reality, but then minutes later she can’t stop 3 people running in a hallway. The Magic in this film has no rules or limitations, it just does what even the plot needs. The magic in this film is like when kids in kindergarten play Rock Paper Scissors and one of them says a gun, and the next- a dinosaur, and then Jesus or something… Also, coming back to that hallway scene, they’re running it stop and turn around and wait until Wanda catches up. That’s from I Know What You Did Last Summer. And it gets memed on by horror fans to this day because of how stupid it is. People who praise this film because it’s “a horror movie” have probably seen less than five horror films. And horror movies can also be trash. Hell, most of them are. This film was a damn shame. I’d even say it’s Sam Raimi’s worst film.

[@petriew2018]

@Grant You must have watched this movie while tripping

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@Grant That explains everything.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

People who like this film hate having their intelligence insulted, and will then proceed to say that they didn't have high expectations for the film, or that "it's just a dumb comic book film."

[@WrathofArchon]

@@grandarkfang_1482 "it's a dumb comic book film" also "omg these characters are so cool and this film is so deep with its messaging agagsaijesiynhdssaw" well which one is it you can't hold both viewpoints

[@petriew2018]

@@grandarkfang_1482 my response to that is "the adults will be over here when you choose to join an actual conversation" once upon a time movies weren't expected to be stupid and audiences demanded some attempt at quality before blindly handing over their entertainment dollars... why that stopped will forever be baffling to me.

[@gman7497]

The multiverse is kinda fucking everything up imo. It's hard to care about our Scarlet Witch going bad when there's a 'good' variant of her the exists that can and probably will replace her. There's no consequences seemingly for beings from two universes interacting so they can just pluck her from get reality into ours at any point they want. This whole thing seems like a very inefficient means of introducing mutants and the FF to me but there could have been better ways to do it. I didn't hate the movie, it was fun at points and I like Benedict quite a bit as Strange, but the whole Scarlet Witch plot was nonsense that just 'magically' resolves itself at the end coz suddenly Wanda discovers a conscience out of nowhere after killing 100s of people.

[@caramelspellman3253]

Yeah even I think the same like I read this one article where when our Loki in the D+ shows meets female Loki and something like an explosion was supposed to happen because it's like beings from two different universes interacting. Whatever happened to that I guess. I wish they would've respected the characters well rather than destroying their entire character set up in the previous movies by doing this. Me and my friend were really excited for this one during the announcement of phase 4 because we both love Wanda and Strange. 🙁

[@TheTimberwolf44]

So much of this movie's magic system could have been explained with a throw away line to the effect of "every spell that exists has a counter. You have to be imaginative and unpredictable, or you're useless."

[@michaelplowman8674]

Remember in Endgame when Dr Strange held back all the water behind a damn by himself and was still able to hold a hand up to Tony reminding him there was only one way? The writer didn't.

[@ciscoperez6879]

This is probably my 4-5th time listening to 185/186 . Always entertaining

[@TheCustodians]

They may go over it in the video and I haven't gotten to it yet. But, if dreaming requires a multiverse to exist, did no one dream before Loki? How could they possibly fuck up their own continuity so horribly and consistently?

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@Grant no, it didn't. Not if Loki has anything to say about it.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

Because Kevin Feige's a moron that allowed Loki to happen.

[@kingrippzard2027]

@Grant Loki directly says no to that though. Unless we want to count the old war with Kane. But no one we have met besides him should know about it.

[@redbearington3345]

@@grandarkfang_1482 loki literally establishes the multiverse existed since the beginning of time...

[@redbearington3345]

@ShutterShocked its a simple time travel thing. the TVA has never existed anymore. Its like if you traveled back in time and killed your best friend's grandfather. You might remember your friend, but he never existed as far as the universe is concerned. Exact same thing going on here. As far as the universe and multiverse is concerned Kang and the TVA never existed.

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

Imagine if he used the spell from No Way Home and made Wanda forget about America and her fake kids, and/or everything in the Darkhold.

[@P.T.S.E.]

So... Being protected by a magic shield. Having access to portal magic and quivers of arrows. Hmmm... Omnidirectional arrow rain, traveling at supersonic speed from point blank as a counterattack?

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Maybe the shield goes both ways? Scarlett Witch can't cast through it(except the mindfuck spell for whatever handwave fuck it), and thus all the sorcerers can't cast magic back at her through it either.

[@P.T.S.E.]

@@RipOffProductionsLLC I'm talking about portals. Manipulating time-space to connect two separate location, by overlapping them in the space-time continuum. They don't have to penetrate or open up the shield, as they are manipulating space-time and there is no direct line of fire (mana flow, targeting, whatever). step 1.) Open a portal on the floor, next to your feet. The other side of the portal should open to the edge of Space, anywhere on Earth. step 2.) Drop a quiver of arrows (pointy end down) into the portal step 3.) Open a second portal (or a separate portal for each arrow) near surface level, right below the falling arrows. Make the other end of the portal connect to any space near Scarlet Witch, the opening pointing directly at her. step 4.) Move to the next level in the game. Have you never heard of or played with Portal?

[@xolotltolox]

I love the discussion of "what's the difference between witchcraft and sorcery" which reminds me of how such a distinction was actually done well in the Nasuverse/Fate where you have, depending on the translation, (True) Magic/Sorcery and Magecraft/Magic. Where the difference between the two is defined as true magic being "a miracle that surpasses all that is possible with the Sciences and MAgecraft of the current era", like time trave, teleportation and dimensional travel are all miracles only possible for true magic, like Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg, who is in posession of the 2nd Magic, the operation of parallel worlds. It also gives normal mages a hard limit on what they can do

[@Ramsey276one]

Thanks for the info Also THAT NAME... XD

[@xolotltolox]

@@Ramsey276one Yeah, Nasu has a bit of a...thing when it comes to "foreign" names, like "Justeaze Lizrich von Einzbern" Probably why most people just call him "Old Man of the Jewels" or "Kaleidoscope" Also, interstingly, he has a power similar to Strange, where he can observe possible future realities, but he doesn't do that becuase if he observes a reality, that now becomes the only possible one, which actually (somewhat) lines up with quantum physics, where the mere act of observing something, affects the outcome

[@Ramsey276one]

@@xolotltolox the title of KALEIDOSCOPE was such a ping if curiosity while reading the wiki XD

[@DiceOL]

God the Nasuverse is so cool

[@gottesurteil3201]

Yes, standards and restrictions are imperative for finite beings when utilizing the mystic arts. Having that distinction between what is possible for the normal magician and what is considered to be beyond the average mortal magician makes it more impactful to the audience when they are able to exceed those limitations. I don't know what even is beyond Wanda or Strange thanks to this movie. Also time alter magecraft is best magecraft.

[@ned968]

Its kind of a surprise that the writer for the movie worked on Rick and Morty but has little creativity making alternate universes

[@HighlyRegarded420]

I will never understand why people think rick and morty is so good.

[@kylesquid]

@@HighlyRegarded420 the first two seasons are pretty consistently great, with only a few exceptions. Pilot was overrated though. Season 3 and onward are some of the worst television I’ve seen.

[@jada9401]

Victor von Doom Somewhere smiling from ear to ear after “the smartest man alive” gave away their deadliest weapon and they all got annihilated within 3 minutes

[@johannesseyfried7933]

Also Victor von Doom: Preparing his Annihilator Ray for Wanda, because goddammit, if anybody is going to violently kill Reed Richard's it's gonna be him!

[@The1Ryu]

Do you not understand how conflict escalation works? First thing one does is give a warning.

[@jada9401]

@@The1Ryu uh oh looks like I offended a Wanda stan

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

So glad you added PART1 TO THE TITLE. also Yay Meme Repository. My fave Purple goo man.

[@Ramsey276one]

PART ONE?!

[@Ramsey276one]

*YAY*

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

@@Ramsey276one Yeah, Rag''''''''''s ran out of time, so they are coming back to discuss all the bad in the movie next week.

[@Awakened_Mucacha]

When Dr. Strange did the infinite beer thing with Thor, my brain just assume he was "borrowing" it from another universe.

[@Greenlion781]

Based on the world build of this film, the multiverse is already destroyed, because if Wanda has a non-zero chance of succeeding, there are an infinite number of Wandas interested in doing this. The only possible way anything could still exist is that there were no stakes to begin with.

[@jeebuschristos8423]

2:01:28 Second time, in as many movies, the ol' Doctor has gotten one of those stolen right off his hand by a teenager tho... Pretty hilarious that Ned is better at using one to open portals than Chavez is...

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

Hey, quick question: I haven't seen the movie, but......wouldn't the TVA just come and delete Scarlet Witch?.....

[@grandarkfang_1482]

You mean, the TVA. And yes, they would.

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

@@grandarkfang_1482 Autocorrect, yes, thanks, corrected.

[@DropDeadDebater]

Yeah, they seem to kind of have just…disappeared

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

@@DropDeadDebater interesting, that.

[@knightmare_edits]

Again, because plot. Also, shouldn't they be Kang's personal police force right about now? Surely, they would intervene when there's a genuine threat to Kang's conquest, right?

[@Don-Scrima]

May be a hot take, but I would’ve preferred if America Chavez didn’t have an arc. If she was just a good person who was cursed with immense power and was always willing to do the right thing to the point of self-sacrifice, she would have been easier to connect to (much like Steve Rogers). Marvel writers really need to understand that not every character in every movie needs an arc; sometimes it’s better to have characters with principles who act on them, especially if you have no ideas and have to shoehorn baseless nonsense for the ones you clearly don’t care as much about (and you don’t have to force yourself to waste time you can otherwise spend on the characters you do care about).

[@casbyness]

Losing pets due to being blipped doesn't have to mean they starved to death because you were gone. It could also mean they simply died of old age during the five years you were away. Same for family members, friends, etc.

[@magicianofd8434]

The more I hear about this movie, the more I become disappointed that this is where Marvel has gone. Like, if the movies get good again, they'll have so much baggage that I really don't think they can deal with anymore.

[@chasehedges6775]

Soooo true. The MCU is definitely going downhill and should have stopped after Infinity War.