EFAP #58 - The Game of Thrones Debate with Nerdrotic and YezenIRL

[@alexharmonymusic3068]

This guy was saying “like” so many times, I was expecting him to finish with “comment and subscribe” eventually. But alas, my expectations were subverted.

[@meris8486]

I do that too, it's my version of um, hmm and er

[@WadeArchives]

He's also one of those people who says "right??" after making a point, right??

[@BananaMana69]

Your expectations were subverted? That means this is the best piece of content on KZbin purely because of that fact.

[@50ULL355]

A real subversion would be the night king breaking aryas neck while sansa screams like elia martell

[@MisterSyrup]

The lip smacking is fucking obnoxious

[@dusky5535]

“Now let’s see who Yezen truly is!” *Pulls off mask* “It’s old man Major Lee!”

[@RogueFox2185]

And he would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for that meddling Mauler.

[@ceee338]

i'd rather have major lee than him

[@jolttheprotogen8034]

Good job EFAP gang! You solved the mystery!

[@alice5201-2]

:0

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

@@RogueFox2185 and that sexy-ass doggo

[@FellishBeast]

“It’s definitely misogynistic.” “They did the same thing to a man.” “Well, the WAY they did it was misogynistic.”

[@nillynush4899]

Once again showing that when it comes to Lefties...(or those of similar ilk) You just cannot win. If the goal is to make something into a talking point, they will find a way to shoe-horn madness into ANYTHING to make their ideology sound less dumb.

[@amanibob1416]

1: "They caught and hung a person because of a crime he didn't commit!" 2: "I'm saying, like, that it wasn't a mistake, like, because it's preventive." 1: "What?!" 2: "-Like and like... Since they knew he wasn't guilty, like..." 1: "So you're saying that wasn't premeditated *because* they knew he wasn't a bad guy?!"" 2: "Yeah, like, no of course, like... It's huh, preventive, like, because it's harder to catch one bad guy, like, compared to... Like... Killing a hundred to scare, like... I, mean, like, anyone at random... Like..." Me: "And that's why you listen to what you're saying more than once every five minutes..."

[@JackSKLLINGTN123]

Is there a general timestamp for that?

[@BananaMana69]

@@davidf2676 3:33:30 is when they start talking about it.

[@BananaMana69]

@@JackSKLLINGTN123 3:33:30 is around the time it starts. Lol Rags is the best.

[@BigBroTejano]

So... in the first few minutes of this debate... he says people are upset and wrong about the ending because it didn’t meet their expectations and their favorite character “didn’t win”... and a few minutes after that he says his favorite character “did win” and that’s why he’s more willing to accept how the show ended... hypocrisy much?

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@Anjelica Snorcket My favourite character killed the NK and ran through KL without dying. I hate her now. She should be DEAD

[@centerofattention5783]

*MajOr Lee has taught him well*

[@desertmortician9332]

My favorite character died at the end of season 4 so I hate it. Can you just imagine how different the seasons would have been in Tywin motherfucking Lannister was still alive? Literally none of the stupid would have happened.

[@AliRadicali]

@Courtney Laster :D&D would have ruined him just like they ruined all the other sane, rational characters like Littlefinger, Varys, Tyrion, etc. I'm glad they killed him off when the show was still good.

[@desertmortician9332]

@@AliRadicali I do not disagree, they would have done him a worse injustice then Tyrion if he was still alive. Still makes me sad though, Tywin did nothing wrong.

[@electricbayonet2]

I think Mauler's stunned silence at certain points was him flashing back to -Danang- Dark Souls 2 and its terrible hitboxes. He's watching Yezen get hit over and over again by solid logic and sound arguments, and yet his arguments don't even seem to register that they're being hit.

[@mr.m2914]

Free rhino milk for you for a year. 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@Edax_Royeaux]

I'll give YezenIRL credit for not resorting to strawmans constantly like some other TLJ debaters we've seen. Yezen was responding to the logic with weaker logic, but at least he was provides some references to the show that supported his argument so that we weren't in total la-la land.

[@trevorp8124]

Do you think Yezen walks in 8 fixed directions?

[@DevoBlade]

He might have a lag switch

[@poddav]

this state is known as being "thunderstruck", which happens often when debating fellas of this particular ethnicity. one famous european belletrist describes it best: First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn’t help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn’t help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. He had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn’t remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day. Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck. I didn’t know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.

[@TheDonDidNothingWrong]

It's debates like that make me appreciate how the first debate with Jay went and it makes me appreciate Jay way more. #KickJaySometimes

[@meris8486]

Makes me appreciate DX and Shadiversity those were great

[@mr.m2914]

#jaysucksbutisokinmyopinion

[@Bam_bone]

#Kickjaysoftly

[@LordRaa]

@@Bam_bone #KickJaybutneverinthenuts?

[@heretical_habits9512]

#KickJayUntilHeUsesTheSafeWord

[@electricbayonet2]

I'm always happy to see the video creators be willing to come on EFAP and debate with the crew, so hats off to Yezen for that... ...but, uh, maybe this can be his one and only appearance. Please.

[@jedibrooks7235]

Id take a Major Lee trilogy over another 5 mins of yeven. Even movie bob is for interesting this guy this fucking guy.....

[@crimsonpotemkin]

Yes, please let this idiot stay on his remote island in the middle of nowhere. Humanity did a lot of bad shit in our history, but we don't deserve the torture that is listening to this guy.

[@raikkel9516]

@@jedibrooks7235 at least major Lee gave us some great memes, and actually was entertaining

[@GeorgeLucas_TaintedLegacy]

The only reason I would want this guy back on the show is so Wolf could tear him apart😂

[@Roescoe]

He's a gamma (socio sexual hierarchy: low status men who build a false bubble world around them due to childhood or other factors making them feel shunned and/or bitter) if he decides to stop lying, then he'll be a Jay Exci, and on the path to redemption. (a delta) I had to start on the path, it's really hard, but it makes one sleep at night and actually be able to interact with people.

[@JarPanda]

"I have my interpretation, you have yours." Does he mean to say "It's my opinion."? teehee

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

It felt like a lot of his arguments and counters were just that. And like many pointed out "Assume, presume, in my opinion, LIKE, AGAIN"

[@punishedbearzerker5400]

Brother?

[@nautdead3197]

If its actually a problem then is "logistical" and I don't care

[@rindoubaka1574]

I mean... he did back up his interpretation... mind you I personally disagree with it and if anything I think it shows an inconsistency with how the character is written but Mauler was just as adamant that his interpretation was the correct one.

[@theraven268]

@@rindoubaka1574Yeah, almost like he doesn't think he is wrong or something. There is a difference between thinking you are right and thinking you can't be wrong. People who say things like "it's just my opinion" or "I have my interpretation, you have yours." are of the second variety.

[@VaporSulla]

"I'm uncomfortable with holocaust analogies" Also : "Daenerys is good for the world of Westeros"

[@KazeVongola]

They should have asked him if he'd consider Hitler a tragic hero if he saved the lives of double the amount of people he killed in return. What a fucking hypocritical psychopath...

[@amanibob1416]

"How ironic."

[@eugenekrabs6400]

Allan Coleman I love how the issue of whether or not he’s crazy actually came up

[@LH74]

He probably thinks Marxism is great even though there is mass genocide and starvation because “there is no more class struggle”.

[@harpon2816]

@@LH74 I mean, the flaw of communism is that it depends on altruism. Sadly, too many people have become accustomed to the greed necessary in a capitalist system. You can't change the system without changing the people - why communism failed.

[@ianhines2302]

Daenerys is a hero, she got rid of all poverty in King’s Landing!

[@karlleonis7882]

She single-handedly reduced the crime rate to Zero!

[@TheJogro123]

@@karlleonis7882 She did increase the warcrime rate to 100% too

[@blackchibisan8116]

Euthanasia is he ultimate solution to all human suffering.... you know after the screaming stops

[@TheMaleRei]

@@karlleonis7882 She made Judge Death proud. Life is the leading source of crime, after all.

[@itwasalladream7134]

She also created 100% employment. That city is not going to rebuild itself

[@michalnowacki1489]

This one is a chore to get through without bashing your head into a wall

[@autismisuncontrollable4925]

Bash your head, it helps numb the pain

[@grizzlymelon8376]

Just 22 minutes in and i had to strike out. He`ll get some respect for actually showing up on Efap but jesus christ i can`t stand this guy already, i can see where this discussion is going.

[@amanibob1416]

It's a real case of: "Those people(s) exist guys... Ain't making sh!t up, these are IRL folks." There's a disheartening feel to/about that kind of "random encounter". It's, (I guess), a good example of: "yeah, futile from a pragmatical viewpoint, but let's get this over with and so at least we'll know we've tried and that'll let us move along without shame".

[@ಇLiv]

I need to look at chat to stay sane

[@SoopDwagg]

he's so far the only guest on efap that i'm actively refuting out loud as he is making his points when i'm not writhing in pain from the cringe of some of his statements/false reads

[@Bam_bone]

Tism man: "All narrative is subjective" Rugs: :is rey a character in star wars?" Tism man: "yes" Wags: "there ya go" Roasted, toasted, creamed and steamed

[@thatoneguy609]

dont forget sliced and diced

[@badgasaurus4211]

Baked and caked

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

"I thought you couldn't do math" -Rag's He had some zingers this episode. :D

[@andsoooo]

@@davidf2676 1:03:00

[@Arphemius]

Really? I thought that was just Rags not trying to understand what people are saying and sniping at them with some stupid bullshit that comes completely out of left field to disrupt the conversation, as he always does. But I guess the other guy actually got epically pwned by Rag's's instead.

[@autismisuncontrollable4925]

While I disagreed with this bloke almost everytime he opened his mouth, kudos to him for coming on efap and talking about his subjective perspective opinion

[@crimsonpotemkin]

I respect him coming on, but I hope he never comes back. If he quit youtube altogether then that would be the cherry on top.

[@tupimpacaterpillar3516]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ip-Xi6CYa52Ijbc

[@amanibob1416]

It's like a dog with rabies coming towards you to bite yer face off... *Don't be glad he responded to your call...* Run.

[@tupimpacaterpillar3516]

Michael Belluche nope he’s not but you are

[@Nothing-sl5ro]

Chat needs a veto for boring guests. Case in point this boring bastard.

[@jays8287]

Dany was justified in what she did to Kings Landing... She got OLDER... it all makes sense now...

[@TheMaleRei]

With experience and maturity comes... Mass murder?

[@blackchibisan8116]

Please tell me this is a throwback reference and not a sad window into my inevitable future as someone about to watch this stream.

[@punishedbearzerker5400]

Look Jay S, I am axing you, doesnt it make sense, in this HBO fanatical Game of Thrones universe, that Daenerys would burn children because Cersei called her an old, arrogant boy?!?!

[@amanibob1416]

She did look a bit *fanatical* and this is what happens when you don't bring enough Snickers for everyone... *Kilimanjaro!*

[@jays8287]

@@blackchibisan8116 check the EFAP EU called the not so great debate

[@Hashbrown1682]

Whenever he says Bran is his favourite character, it feels like he's trying to convince himself

[@zodem3766]

Bran flakes are my favourite breakfast. 🤪

[@Hashbrown1682]

@@zodem3766 I like them with strawberries

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

Anjelica Snorcket he’s a loathsome contrarian in many ways. He doesn’t even know the definition of the word colonialism. And yet he tries to apply that to aegon the conqueror even though he is technically the immigrant destroying a colonial culture with the Andals and rewarding the original first men who themselves were immigrants. Their stances are so inconsistent

[@Сайтамен]

He said "in the books".

[@winterman8248]

I thought he was trolling when he said bran is his fav. then i see hes serious lol maybe hes a serious troll who doesnt brake character 😆

[@hecute4932]

"Most people think (this), want (that), think they know characters better than the writers," etc.... Constructive criticism for the guest: broad, sweeping generalizations and MASSIVE assumptions to how most people think do nothing for your argument, which in turn does nothing for the audience's understanding of your opinions. Citing a 2000 person poll about those fans not wanting the same ending for the books doesn't mean they want their own envisioned ending (namely for whom their rooting for) and nothing else... it just means they didn't like the direction(s) the show took.

[@shawnm1902]

Even if this is the actual ending with the actual intent of Martin (doubtful), D&D did a terrible job showing why these things should happen the way that it did. The reason why people hold the opinions that they have is a direct byproduct of what is shown. As such, their expectations and theories developed in a predictable way. The criticism should never be levied at the feet of the audience as that is simply starting that they are "watching the show wrong" essentially.

[@KaosOrder]

The poll he is citing is completely irrelevant to his point. Picking what you WANT is not the same as saying the execution was done poorly. I am sure people are split on whether they want Jon/Daenerys/Bran/others as king... but that doesn't mean they would immediately reject anything other than their number one pick. Rather, his points actually prove his bias AGAINST understanding. He wanted Bran to be king, so he blindly accepted Bran as king, rather than analyzing whether the way it was done made sense.

[@Tomgd420]

Expectations for characters will always change due to what is portrayed and how. This guy is a lefty he views all fans always wrong and toxic.

[@KaosOrder]

@@Tomgd420 I wouldn't label someone so anti-change "lefty". It really is a political term first of all, but if you WERE arguing on a spectrum of liberal - conservative... he is arguing against change - keep the status quo that DnD set. He is further right than even most modern conservatives, who at least want to change taxes and a few laws.

[@Tomgd420]

KaosOrder He judges the characters and actions by todays standards. He called a act that was carried out apparently on both a man and a woman as misogynistic as well as words uttered towards her as misogynistic despite truth. He's a sjw he lumps all fans into toxic despite the fact he himself says things are done and written horribly. I don't think you're thinking US lefty these days. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm not saying he's as bad as some he does talk.

[@ConscriptedKnightRose]

Allow me to put my useless creative writing degree to use. The FIRST thing they teach you about story-audience relation, is that the writer's entire goal is to convey the right ideas, without outright saying it. Its a grey area that you can't control for perfectly, but if most of your audience is picking up the wrong message, the story needs adjusting. Yeah, people are going to take all sorts of wild things from what you write, but the whole point of workshopping, beta readers, and editors is to minimize the chance of getting the wrong impression. In other words, blaming the audience for getting it wrong means the story has failed at its intention (conveying ideas to a target audience), and there is no way to color that as anything but an objective flaw.

[@thesaltmerchant4564]

It’s odd when people use the events of a story within itself to justify the writers choices. Well of course Jamie was returning to his sister that’s what happened. What else could’ve they’ve done that’s what happened. Like he says it didn’t work for him at first then went back and rewatched it until it did. That’s sounds like you’re trying to twist what’s there to suit an ending that you already know is going to happen. Almost as if you don’t want to admit this massive show that went on for 8 seasons has more bad than good in it by the end

[@PirateKingBoros]

This comment made me so glad I dropped out and am just writing on my own.

[@SerbAtheist]

'In other words, blaming the audience for getting it wrong means the story has failed at its intention (conveying ideas to a target audience), and there is no way to color that as anything but an objective flaw.' This assumes that the be-all end-all of storytelling is to please the audience and coddle their pre-existing ideas and prejudices. However, if you want to convey NEW ideas, you are guaranteed to, at least initially, piss off a large percentage of your audience. Game of Thrones tackled a lot of sacred cows when it comes to glorifying vengeance, self-righteous violence, hero worship and the like. It was a brutal and devastated deconstruction of some of the most sacred tropes of fantasy writing. Quite a few people, including YezenIRL looked beneath the surface and understood what the show was about.

[@PsychoWedge]

So, all the people who didn't get what they wanted are unable to see how great the season was because of their fefes but he can, since he got what he wanted and his fefes are supder duper? And the absolute gall to make wide condemnations by calling into question the intellectual capacity of millions of people while simultaniously doing exactly the same thing just in the opposite direction is some super charged self-unawareness. Jesus fuck... The discussion was over at 15 minutes when all of this became crystal clear.

[@unformedeight]

Seconded

[@crab7405]

I like this fefe word.

[@PsychoWedge]

@@crab7405 I learned it from Nerdrotic, actually. ^^ Dunno if it is a common word though since I'm not a native speaker.

[@meris8486]

@@PsychoWedge Haha I don't think it's a real word, he just uses it as a pet term for feels.

[@PsychoWedge]

@@meris8486 yeah, I know how he uses it. :) I just don't know whether or not it's a common americanism or a california thing or whatever. xD

[@RyanFieldHuzzah]

Aren't you going to give the show leeway for being an HBO fanatical universe?

[@Archyoda7]

The Field In an HBO Fanatical Universe, can a queen burn a city down?

[@RyanFieldHuzzah]

@@Archyoda7 burning is implied.

[@Tomgd420]

I was trying to forget someone used that.....

[@JarPanda]

@The Field cute bear.

[@starman975]

Cersei called her a boy!! Didn't you see the conviction in her eyes!!!??

[@LUFFY070]

I love how Rags doesn't even need to have watched the show to destroy his arguments

[@ThaTawpDawg]

Rags is a Dumbass that piggybacks Mauler.. he’s such an asshole and I don’t understand how anyone can take a grain of salt of what his annoying punk ass voice says!

[@lucidhound4632]

Yezen: "In my mind, she didn't kill a million people in Kingslanding." Uh dude, yes she did. It's right there on the TV screen. She killed pretty much everyone body and leveled the city. And, I don't remember the time stamp for this, so if someone does know, please leave it in a reply, but Rags asks Yezen, 'So, you think the innocent people of Kingslanding are enemies to Daenerys and they deserved to be burned and killed?" Yezen: "Yes." Me: WTF!!!???? These innocent people have done nothing to Daenerys for her to burn them alive!

[@morbidstanduser9030]

I'm currently watching this for the first time, I can't wait to hear that part lol!

[@holysecret2]

Don't you understand that in his mind she didn't, that must mean she didn't actually do it

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@@holysecret2 Meanwhile Dany, "She tried to use their *innocence* against me"

[@rockerknight25]

2:09:40

[@koreancowboy42]

But also that Dany clearly had the power to end it all but she overall didn't restrain herself to end it properly. The overall fact she razed and burned the city and killed millions of people

[@exhumedlegume8870]

"Danaerys was a net positive because she freed more slaves than she killed innocents, but you can't do math like that with human lives, and I don't know how valuable freedom is compared to a life."

[@jonsimpson6240]

Considering how many people died to obtain or defend freedom, I'd say it's more valuable than life.

[@voicingdragoon7]

I miss Wolf. He would have torn this guy to shreds

[@omgazr0]

Preach this debate really made me realize his hostile approach to stupid counter arguments would have made this a more straight forward debate rather than mauler, rags, and nerdrotic slamming their heads on this wall of constantly shifting the argument.

[@chickentendies5215]

The WOLF would have torn someone to shreds.

[@crimsonpotemkin]

I didn't like Wolf. He's s furry, that's already a giant red flag for me (I tolerate Rags a bit more, but I'm mainly here for Mauler). Plus he was impulsive, tism-y sometimes, would rage and insult people too quickly. Also overused hyperbole, as in every one he hated was the "stupidest fuck on the planet" or something like that. But man, since he left I kinda learned to appreciate him. He brought a different dynamic to the stream, something that's missing right now. He would read the chat out loud and laugh at funny comments there. I used to think he was loud and obnoxious, but after re-watching some of the earlier episodes I'm starting to think that maybe it wasn't that bad. In my opinion. Don't @ me. Like and subscribe.

[@dusky5535]

Crimson I hope he comes back one day, but I want his mind to be stable first.

[@RevanSlayer]

I'm pretty new to EFAP, found it because of Nerdrotic. But has there been an update about WOLF? Just finished EFAP 8 from the archive and was kinda heartbroken when he got off and said he wouldnt be back for awhile.

[@TheCaptKankles]

Just watched the Not so Great Debate EU vid and now this. My brain hurts

[@Superschokokeks]

I'm surprised you are even alive

[@TheCaptKankles]

@@Superschokokeks The Cosmic Chicken and The Don gave me strength

[@amanibob1416]

*Fanatical* vs *Kinda forgot* Which is the more nonsensical? You decide... Epic t4rd battle of memery!

[@Tomgd420]

Comment section made me remember the not so great debate..... I almost forgot I gotta cry now. Fanatical universe Vs Jamie's feelings. Can't believe this guy used words written by the writers portrayed by the character to say see it made sense.

[@harry426]

@@amanibob1416 Major Lee's.

[@Nick_Hammer]

this is the first time i ever had to give up and skip to the super chats. you guys have the patience of saints to put up with this guy for almost four hours.

[@Zach0451]

Kinda the point of a debate

[@khanman8113]

Oh god, there’s 4 hours of him. I was hoping he didn’t stay on that long

[@Jace22786]

🤣😂🤣😂😂

[@masterclockwork4436]

Yezen's entire arguments seem to boil down to whatever supports his headcanon is perfectly fine and anyone who has a problem with certain scenes it's because it doesn't fit their headcanon. It's a completely asinine position and does not address the actual quality of the writing and execution.

[@katawatenshu]

What was weird to me is that he avoided using the term headcanon so strongly

[@metalliclark86]

Which is hilarious to me. Most of us who were watching the show closely, all I wanted was it to be decent, with a lot of caveats since the writers weren't copy pasting Martin's work anymore, but they purposedly denied the fandom every bit of pay off to Martin's set up. Good shit.

[@masterclockwork4436]

@@metalliclark86 Gotta subvert those expectations.

[@lorddolamite6141]

Dany walking into fire makes sense in a George R.R. Martin Fanatical Universe.

[@MegaSpideyman]

I don't think she walked into fire in 8. Do you mean where she's naked in fire?

[@lorddolamite6141]

@@MegaSpideyman I was jokingly responding to Yeven's "Dany walking into fire is illogical." To be honest, I wouldn't know as I only know GoT by osmosis.

[@MegaSpideyman]

@@lorddolamite6141 Ah, I see. I hadn't got to that point then. Ah, I can get that. There's stuff like that for me. Haven't really watched Dirty Harry, still know the line 'Do you feel lucky, punk?', or 'You dirty rat!' for James Cagney. (Though he didn't actually say it)

[@lorddolamite6141]

@chaoszieg That was really odd. If narrative is subjective, then the context is too, right?

[@Tomgd420]

What movie was it Independence Day? Guy claims he was abducted by Aliens..... Aliens invade and they still consider him crazy. YezenIRL would of had the guy commited.

[@ThatBugBehindYou]

When your voice is insufferable and your mannerisms are terrible but everyone comes out appreciating you and patting your back for coming on and voicing your opinion because Maj0r Lee was just that terrible.

[@davidgallego1652]

I felt like Maj0r Lee was more interesting because I was going back and forth almost the whole time whether or not he was trolling. I ultimately believe Maj0r Lee wasn't trolling which made his odd takes all the more intriguing. This guy was more of a generic fanboy wanting to love GOT no matter what

[@TheAdarkerglow]

@@davidgallego1652 but the fact that Maj0r Lee sounded so disingenuous, trollish, and memey that we have to 'ultimately believe' that he's just that dumb is kind of the problem. He's like a Jar Jar Abrams Mystery Box: Intriguing, until we see inside, and they're usually empty, or sometimes there's a pie ready to hit you in the face.

[@jedibrooks7235]

Lmao well put. But ask yourself. Major lee part 2 or Yemen part 2.

[@krolirtheekroller4147]

Ugh, the major lee episode is the only episode of EFAP I just can't bring myself to watch again.

[@davidvanvranken1595]

My biggest gripe with Major Lee is it seemed like he just couldn’t turn it off. He acted like he was still recording his own KZbin video

[@bumponalog5001]

This is a prime example of how damaging post-modern relativism is. 30 minutes were wasted because two people were using the same word in different ways. Yet only one way is the correct usage. Language relies on the adherence to REALITY. One side of this debate was living in a fantasy and using words as he saw fit instead of using them for their intended meaning. That's relativism, and it's going to be the downfall of civilization yet again. He admits he's a relativist himself when he won't concede that that plot is objective and insists that the actual real time occurrence of events is SUBJECTIVE. That's crazy talk, and invalidates everything he says in a rational debate.

[@Bam_bone]

^

[@cassiusemmanualtheyoutubep3171]

"Downfall of civilization, yet again." When did it happen the first time?

[@bumponalog5001]

@@cassiusemmanualtheyoutubep3171 Rome, communist Russia.

[@cassiusemmanualtheyoutubep3171]

@@bumponalog5001 Right, but I don't see how relativism led to the downfall of either of those things. Rome, at least the Western half fell due to increasing outside threats from Germanic migrations that originated from Atilla. The Eastern Empire fell due to Venetian treachery and the Ottoman Turks. The Soviet Union fell due to crippling economic conditions that started due to them prioritizing military over other things, one of their leaders even tried to pay soldiers in Potatoes. Unless you meant Tzarist Russia, in which case fell due to poverty and the White Russian side being very unorganized. And the communists held the industrial centers I believe, like Moscow and Petersburg. In any case I don't see how post-modern relativism led to these things falling. But I do agree that language should be clear, even though it is unfortunately ever changing. My misunderstanding comes from taking civilization in a more grand scale, but I just misunderstood you is all.

[@wrigglenight93]

@@cassiusemmanualtheyoutubep3171 Well you see you could probably twist that to be about relativism if you...I dunno, these people always have a way

[@nucleargypsy9470]

When yez was giving his definition of toxic fandom, he was actually defining himself? Huh.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

oof

[@sephiroaone-of-nine101]

jeez that was very Nuclear

[@sammydray5919]

Ironic

[@unpopularopinions7407]

my sides have gone into hyperspace

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

did they hit and obliterate the Supremacy?

[@unpopularopinions7407]

yeah but i won’t be recognized as a hero for it because i have a peer

[@lieutenantnomad9198]

The not so great debate Game of Thrones addition.

[@Archyoda7]

Lieutenant Nomad -edition. But agreed.

[@Longshanks1690]

@Lieutenant Nomad I am AXING you: In a HBO fanatical Game of Thrones universe, does Dany going insane make sense?

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

@@Longshanks1690 Is she old?

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

LordOfThePizzaPie if she is she’s one of the hottest old ladies

[@krennicsaspirations4883]

I still think we should have made YezenIRL draw something to see if he was an alien. I blame Jay for this, also Hi Rags!

[@Rags]

Hi.

[@shawnm1902]

No, always use the bio scanner. Also hi rags'

[@TheGruspastej]

What if he is hacked though?

[@exhumedlegume8870]

Scan him, I dare you!

[@remuslazar2033]

@@shawnm1902 hello

[@matthewmuir8884]

It's funny how Yezen kept pulling moments from season 1, when Dany has known since season 1 that she won't get a hero's welcome in Westeros: Jorah told her that everything she and her brother Viserys were told about how the people await the return of the Targaryans was a lie, and that the commoners don't care who's in charge as long as they (the commoners) don't have to suffer the consequences of nobles infighting. So, all his points about, "Dany not being welcomed like she thought she'd be" are nonsense.

[@BigBroTejano]

Matthew St. Cyr well... maybe she... forgot?

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

And she was upset that they didn't accept her. Hasn't she known that for years?

[@AliRadicali]

Not to mention her experience in Slaver's Bay, where a handful of elites kept thwarting her conquest despite the fact that her actions had liberated a large majority of the populace, who were fanatically devoted to her. She obviously knew by season 8 that simply showing up in Westeros with a claim to throne wouldn't be enough to convince everyone to accept her as the rightful ruler.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@@AliRadicali Right, she showed them that she was not there to be a master but free them but she goes to Westeros and immediately like "Bend the knee or die"

[@AliRadicali]

@Bipsty McBipste I don't have a problem with that in principle, it's rather that the execution in the show was incredibly jarring. Slaver's bay is a more primitive and cruel society than Westeros, so it would make sense that in order to rule such a place, Dany would inevitably have to resort to measures that are likewise primitive and cruel, especially compared to the high ideals she had when she set out to free the slaves. And to be fair, the freed slaves are effectively feudal peasants, they have a representative, but Dany is still a dictator in effect. If they'd built it up better, I could totally buy Dany showing up in Westeros, shorn of her naivete, acting like a barbarian overlord by Westerosi standards. Instead they just have her go mad for no reason, just because the plot demands it.

[@Demonhornz]

Featuring Major Lee, in spirit.

[@TheJolle]

Maj0r Lee is his spirit animal

[@samuel5591]

ML had a much better attitude and knew full well most of his arguments didn't hold up - he just wanted to enjoy stuff. Far more respect for his position than this guy who was reaching so far he was about to strain a shoulder.

[@ultimateagent25]

Not So Great Debate 1 : Disney Fanaticals Not So Great Debate 2 : Slice and Dice Brother Not So Great Debate 3 : All Narrative Is Subjective

[@SoopDwagg]

translated for this guest not is subjective. so is subjective, great is subjective. debate is subjective, numbers are subjective.. Subjective Subjective Subjective Subjective Subjective : Everything JFC my brains cells by 40 minute were actively trapping conscience thoughts and strangling them to death

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

Which episode was the second debate?

[@ultimateagent25]

@@KaNoMikoProductions The Major Lee debate. Here's the link. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5i7aXSqjdtrmpI

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

@@ultimateagent25 I've watched it, I just didn't remember the "slice and dice" quote in it. I should've realized it was Major Lee, though. Man, do I wish he'd get on again for a round two. That one was hilarious.

[@amanibob1416]

"I wish to bash my head against an artificial barrier of blockage to repel the tism." Bilbo Bigideas of Bagginess, Esquire, like, from, like... The Fanatical, like... Efap Universe... Edit: 02:40:00

[@Animericashow1]

How to be Yezen in three easy steps: 1. Make a pointed, serious argument in defense of a point. 2. Get BTFO'ed by basic questions and literally any opposing argument made by anyone. 3. Stutter and stammer for an ice age, then say you don't really want to talk about it and change the subject.

[@Haukipesukone]

This Yezen guy's argument in a nutshell: I'm smarter than the rest of the fans, so I'm right, you're wrong.

[@lieutenantnomad9198]

I guess he's not as smart as he think he do.

[@neffariouspanda]

It's really sad too, because that's exactly what he accused the fans of doing.

[@1tmildew]

Thanks for the warning. This...is gonna be a rough watch.

[@HarrisS888]

yeah, I'm a few hours in, and he stomps on eveyone else to reinforce points that are wrong. you can feel the others hating him. they pretty much tearing him apart. he wont let anyone else get their points out fully and never really concedes a point. he is definitely out classed here

[@fy4b230]

Mr Bungle tbf, it is a 3v1. The dude had no chance. He may have had a chance if they had an outlined structured debate, however 3v1 and having no structure would destroy most people, singled out. This doesn’t excuse how bad the majority of his points are though lol.

[@unformedeight]

I love it how he says fans rationalized things out of nothing while there is clearly evidence for it. While he has to rationalize things into a specific mold not understanding he is grasping at straws. The basis of the ending of the series is standing on a bunch of straws and he thinks it's well founded

[@GuardsmanGary_Ch]

He rags (no pun intended) on fans trying to rationalize the actions of characters and narrative events when the positions he holds requires so much more rationalizing as they are completely unfounded and are without the barest scrap of evidence to support them. It's just insane how lacking in self-awareness he is.

[@unformedeight]

@@GuardsmanGary_Ch Rather indicative of what lengths you need to stretch things to enjoy the ending.

[@Seomus]

He likes Bran. Bran became good. By his own admission, he had to rewatch the show before he liked the rest of season 8. It reeks of self-editing his experience to harmonize the contradiction in his mind: Season 8 was bad but I like Bran being king so it's good but Season 8 is bad... This is very common for human beings. We like to think our intellect rules our desires, but our intellect often just rationalizes our desires so we can stop having troubling thoughts. It's to cut down on our mental energy and put resources towards other areas of cognition.

[@AKRex]

Yez lost all of my respect when he labelled fans as "entitled" on his video prior to this video. Sorry (that im not sorry), but if you are a defender of Disney SW or GoT season 8, you got a thing or two to learn about what makes a good storytelling and writing.

[@YahliAtzmon]

But even we don’t know what makes good rat

[@kelp7060]

Yeah, his head is way up his ass

[@AKRex]

@@YahliAtzmon "what makes good rat" - skewered and fried crispy?

[@1tmildew]

Fanatic defenders of Disney SW, GoT s8, Captain Marvel, Batwoman show -- There's a pattern here. Many of these people are, in terms of American politics, on the far left. It's a secular religion. Ever try to convince a Preacher that God doesn't exist? These peoples' ideas are the unquestionable words of their God; nothing is up for discussion.

[@AKRex]

Vykromod I never tried to convince one that he doesn’t exist, but asked him to prove that he DOES. The mental gymnastics as a result are pretty funny 😂 and I agree, its like a cult of sort, no logic whatsoever.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

I guess Yezen's not as smart as you think you do.

[@wheeliebin18]

Coherent arguments don't be like they am.

[@AlpurrCatstein4182]

I actually laughed, well done.

[@sammydray5919]

Jokes no you I never thought he was smart to begin with!!!!

[@combustiblel2134]

Sometimes you don't think it be like it is, but it do.

[@abiolaadedeji1868]

Thank you for reminding me that that was a thing

[@krieghart5515]

YenzelWA: Bran's sory is a story about a child, and it's hard to take that and make that a story about a teenager/adult. Rags: So that's where the talent comes in. Rags is the best. Also High rags.

[@Rags]

High.

[@lucidhound4632]

Rags has never even fully watched GOT and he understands the writing and execution better than this Yezen bimbo.

[@badgasaurus4211]

Rags You high?

[@AliRadicali]

This dude was projecting something fierce when he said fans got upset at the ending because it wasn't the particular ending they liked. I mean he even admitted that he had shipped Bran as king all along. Pathetic. Other than that, his arguments around Jamie's decision to kill the mad king were not just incoherent, he was arguing the exact opposite of what happened on the show: Somehow, jamie breaking his oath to save king's landing, and subsequently not telling a soul about the wildfire despite how this could have saved his reputation, somehow this shows he puts his honour ahead of the well-being of the people...?! Even if you want to argue that the kingslaying was an act of self-preservation, surely if Jamie had been as obsessed with honour as Yezen tries to paint him, he would have tried to save face by telling his side of the story? What the sequence of events shows is that Jamie values his own pride far more than his honour, I.E. how others view him. That's an important distinction. Jamie may do the right thing, but it's not because others expect it of him. "the lion doesn't concern itself with the opinion of sheep"

[@mega8142]

While I agree with everything about Jaime, you can't tell me that a large number of the average viewing audience would not be disappointed with King Bran, Banished Jon, and Jaime returning to Cersei no matter the execution. A lot of the normies got a bad taste in their mouth after those events and latched on to the real criticisms that the major fans, and book readers had. I think it would still be considered a disappointing ending for those watchers regardless, who's character didn't get the ending they wanted.

[@AliRadicali]

@Mega Muffin I think a lot of outcomes that could have worked just fine are now ruined by the way the show ended. Even if GRRM were to properly build up to them, readers would be left with a bad taste of D&D in their mouths. But I don't think that means those endings were intrinsically bad, even if they wouldn't be my first choice either.

[@AliRadicali]

@William Shelton Yeah, that same argument is also regularly trotted out by apologists to defend the honor of m'lady The Last Jedi. Which to me just reinforces the point that it's projection; maybe not to the absurd and specific lengths of shipping Bran from season 1, but it seems to be an argument that's only ever made by people who DID like what they got. I didn't hate TLJ because I secretly ship Rey and Finn, I hated it because of the incoherent plot that destroys canon and established characters.

[@jd2792]

​@@mega8142 honestly on bran being king I do think he will be in the books as well but difference is it will probbly a sad and depressing ending considaring he is just a souls uncareing machine/AI that will sacrafice everthing just to accomplish his goals and in no way will it be a happy ending

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@@mega8142 I always thought he would return to Cercei but other events that took place around it kinda just fuck it up

[@davidgallego1652]

2:02:20 Dany does see the people she killed in Kings Landing as innocent. 2:03:09 MauLer cites S08 E06 dialogue where Dany admits she knew that the people she killed were innocent

[@MrMuxix]

✝️YEZEN BEGONE✝️ It's also a good thing Wolf wasn't here. I think he might have actually exploded with rage at the mid point of the stream.

[@soyouresaying7814]

...and missing that is a good thing?!?

[@bleeters5984]

@@soyouresaying7814 Good for him, at least. Pupper needs a rest.

[@dusky5535]

MrMuxix Wolf would have grabbed him through the screen.

[@Zach0451]

Hopefully Wolf never comes back. He contributes nothing productive to debates by being a man-child

[@MrMuxix]

@@Zach0451 Well now, that's just rude. And for all his Anger Wolf could actually debunk an argument well and for the most part let his opponent speak Unless he found something utterly retarded.

[@Alexander59059]

"He sounds like smug Adam Ruins Everything" Saying smug Adam is the same as saying hot fire.

[@thatoneguy609]

Corvo@AZ Do tell.

[@taloutezero]

If Lysa and Littlefinger didn't kill the previous Hand then Robbert wouldn't have gone to Winterfell and Jamie wouldn't have pushed Bran out the window. It still links back to the chaotic force called Littlefinger.

[@MauLerYT]

Damn, I completely forgot that. Good shout o/

[@zodem3766]

Chaos is a ladder and little finger is a snake.

[@MusaMansu]

Jon Arryn was killed, because he was getting close to figuring out Jaime and Cersei’s secret. He was planning to send Sweetrobin to Dragonstone before confronting the a Lannister’s with Robert and that’s why he was poisoned. It literally all goes back to the incest. Robert being killed was also, because he’d find out about the incest. If Robert had lived, his brothers wouldn’t rebel out of loyalty to him, Balon wouldn’t rebel out of fear of him and Robb wouldn’t rebel, because Ned a Stark and Robert Baratheon were friends.

[@Destino2493]

d dave So I’ve always been a lil confused by this, in the show Lysa poisoned Jon Arryn because Littlefinger told her to, she went along with it because she loves him and I assume Littlefinger made her believe they would be together thus making him the lord of the vale, Jaime and Cersei apparently knew that Jon Arryn discovered the truth about their children so were they in on the plot to kill him or did they just get lucky that Littlefinger and Lysa poisoned him before he could tell Robert? 🤔

[@MusaMansu]

@@Destino2493 Spoilers In the books, Littlefinger had Jon Arryn poisoned to get Robert to bring Ned Stark south. It’s implied that he clued Stannis and Jon Arryn in on Cersei and Jaimes treasonous and incestuous relationship. Jon Arryn was planning on sending his son to Dragonstone To be fostered by Stannis, partially to make sure that he couldn’t be used against him and partially because Lysa was coddling him and he wanted Robert Arryn to get toughened up. Littlefinger told Lysa that Jon was going to take her son away. Lysa was forced to get an abortion at a young age by her father when she got pregnant by Littlefinger when they were teens after having drunken sex. Hoster Tully kicked LF out of Riverrun and tricked her into getting an abortion and it’s implied that this had negatively impacted her fertility. Combine that with Jon Arryns poor fertility and you get a bunch of miscarriages, abortions and a sickly child. LF knows that Lysa is overprotective of her son and uses that to his advantage to get her to poison Jon, thus he keeps Cersei and Jaimes secret, throws suspicion on the a Lannister’s, gets Stannis to flee, kills Jon Arryn and gets Robert to bring Ned to Kings Landing. He played the political game masterfully. The only one that’s on his level IMO, is Varys.

[@solarsailer4166]

Longman strikes again!! All humour aside, it's so refreshing to see polite debates (yeah there were interruptions, but I’ve seen way worse). Even if in the end no one's mind has been changed, it's just what people need. We need to be able to talk to one another especially when we don't agree and think the other is a moron. Thanks, EFAP.

[@MrSarcasticGaming]

"People are just mad because the show didn't end how they wanted, but I'm ok with it because it did end the way I want so they're all wrong." I'm honestly amazed at the lack of self awareness. Also, I love the Spookler mask and Pumpkin Rags, both are very good boys.

[@ergoth154]

I've never seen GoT but I really got heated listening to this guy.

[@amanibob1416]

Short summary of GoT: "Dany kinda forgot what friendly fire meant."

[@punishedbearzerker5400]

@@amanibob1416 "Friendly fire is when you light your friends on fire." -Danideas Baggborn, 1st of her name, rightful queen of the brown tables and the good rats, the milker of rhinos.

[@amanibob1416]

Punished Bearzerker How to *not* be a badmen: Step 1: *Don't kill ze everyone and/or burn everything to bitz* Step 2: Step 3: Profit!

[@truthblade01]

Same. All I know about GoT is that a crazy lady burns everything.

[@Tomgd420]

Don't think we need to? Even hearing this guys arguments you can make a case for a show you never seen about characters you never knew. Ffs he used a characters "Feelings" to justify something. Feelings that are written and portrayed by writers that may want you to buy bs.

[@JewishFrog]

"Inciting incidents are subjective." Yezen literally took a random meme quote from the chat and used it as his own argument... This man is beyond saving.

[@voidis]

at 1:01:56 to further support the inciting incident being Jon Arryn's death Robert and the royal party would not have gone all the way north to Winterfell to acquire a new Hand of the King had Jon Arryn still been alive, but since he was murdered by Lysa Arryn and Petyr Baelish now the crown needs a new HotK, so had this plot between Lysa and Litterfinger not transpired then Cersei and Jaime would not go north to later be caught in the act by Bran at Winterfell

[@planet7085]

​@@voidisit's not the inciting incident for the war because things could have gone very differently had Joffrey not sent the assassin.

[@shimeredamatos9171]

The "George hasn't finished the books yet" is annoying. 2 words, Fullmetal Alchemist. The original anime had the exact same problem, they ran out of material, but the original anime is still good despite having to do it's own thing.

[@Hashbrown1682]

Well people dont bring that up is because the show runners for fma cared about it and understood the characters

[@omgazr0]

Arguably even has the better ending, rather than the pseudo fairy tale every one is happy ending.

[@dragonknightleader1]

TBF, Fullmetal Alchemist is the exception in anime. Remember End of Evangelion? Or Bleach or Dragonball Z? Westerners are just getting how it feels to see their anime turn bad from differing visions between TV and Book writers for the first time.

[@Ganom-ng1zt]

@@dragonknightleader1 Wtf, what's wrong about the end of EVA?

[@MWMTEE]

Whatt the ending is ed in our world ww2 times it makes 0 sense actually worse ending that game of thrones

[@bengale9977]

The Dragon Demands has a great video series on this he's been researching D&D for years and the incompetence of the writers is astonishing. From original endings to things like battle of the bastards to their crazy belief that characters emoting is more important than dialogue he has it all documented from every interview, talkover, aftershow they've ever done.

[@bengale9977]

On the whole adaptation argument they are having. Benioff created the entire Dorne plotline because he likes the actor for Oberon's mistress and wanted to be around her more. The exact same thing happened with Jayne Westerling. She was changed because they liked Rob's actor and wanted to show off his acting for Oscar nominations with a long romance plotline. George got mad that they changed her character so he told them they had to change her completely. D&D don't care about the story. They don't change things because it is difficult to adapt they change things because they want to show off their friends.

[@4138channel]

There was not gardening or planning or an idea of where it was going....it was all just last minute impulsivity.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

He is constantly trying to not agree with anything said by the EFAP crew, because he knows if he would do that he quickly would have no counter-arguments for the EFAP chain of reasoning. So he constantly makes things more complex and complicated than it accually is by derailing the conversation to something else. He constantly opens up a new can of worms that the EFAPers need to tackle first in order to come back to the original argument but that barely ever happens because another one is opened. He just throws shit at the wall and hopes one sticks so he can use that to make sense of why he does not agree instead of accually having valid arguments. I am not sure if he thinks that the EFAP crew is trying to have a "GOTCHA" moment and thinks he needs to save face or if he accually believes that these scenes are more nuanced or different to how the crew sees it. If the first thing is the case, then the discussion is already doomed from the start, if it is the last case then how cant he follow the reasoning of the EFAPers till the end and agree at least partially on some of the aspects?

[@mega8142]

To be fair the EFAP crew tried to not agree with a couple of things that didn't need to be argued like, "You are not crazy for walking into fire as long as you believe you won't get burned." Just because you don't get burned doesn't mean you're not crazy for believing such an outlandish thing.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

​@@mega8142 Well maybe from an outside perspective because those people didnt have the information, feelings and motivation Dany had. I agree. They could have differentiated better between Dany's perspective and "in general". But I think the nature of the debate at this point in time was already a bit difficult. I think it is similar to Thanos mentality where he thought he had the solution for all the problems of his home planet, but they didnt implemented it and they all died. And now he thinks it will happen again (since in his mind he was right), therefore he has to kill half the universe. Of course that is crazy, because his chain of reasoning is flawed, but he does not see where it goes off the rails, thus in his mind he is not crazy but accually very rational. Where it goes wrong is just because he had a solution does not mean it was the only solution or can be applied to the problems of other people. He probably is devasted with what happened to his people, maybe he thinks he failed, feels remorse, maybe his ego got a bit pushed and he sees himself as the savior of the universe which helps to him justify what he does. In case of Dany there are many factors which lead her to believe that she is resistant to fire. Their main reasoning was that Dany had enough clues that she might be fire proof. Of course, she could have checked that in a less dramatic way, but I guess the fact that she lost her brother as well as her son and husband, betrayed by the person she thought she saved when trying to be a good person, her now basically being alone in the world, go all in on that one idea, that tiny hope that she will survive. I think Yezen argued that nobody in their right mind would do that, but clearly there are reasons for why Dany (as in the character) would do it, which makes it not crazy. At least not crazy enough in order to not do it.

[@mega8142]

@@SETHthegodofchaos Yeah, I saw a few of Yezen's arguments were sketchy in that section as well. And a lot of the clues Dany gets help it seem less insane in her mind. I was commenting more on the EFAPS crews absurd general statements, not even about Dany or the show itself, like "You're not crazy for doing it, if you can rationalize it in your mind". Dany at least had some evidence in her case, but a belief that you will be safe from fire in and of itself is crazy. That's what I meant by "things that didn't need to be argued". They were fine enough sticking to Dany and her circumstances, but they go further to contradict him.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

@@mega8142 I see. Yes, I can agree with that.

[@S4ns]

So this yutz just like the ending because his boy Bran got to be King and also because he doesn't understand objectivity.

[@S4ns]

'People don't like it because their affirmations weren't confirmed' So .... Their expectations were subverted? Jeez, this guy's arguments are idiotic. It seems like if you like what happened, it's okay. But if you don't like what happened, blame the writers. Like he can't comprehend that the writing could actually be terrible.

[@gusty9053]

If anyone else doesn't feel up to listening to a Season 8 "defense" the memes start at 3:56:45

[@ladybladebinder7059]

Doing The Don's work

[@jimsaintruth4248]

Omg, I'm just after the 3hr mark and the knowledge that the sweet release of memes awaits me is probably the only thing that's gonna prevent me from dying, praise the don

[@anthonykeane4984]

@@davidf2676 they proved they are better people by letting him speak .

[@cassiusemmanualtheyoutubep3171]

@@davidf2676 Watching him flounder around was entertaining though.

[@dhammonds89]

This Yezen character is a weaselly little ham sandwich. - Bulbous Boggart

[@IceZachara]

Going to try and finish this today as I made it 2 hours and 45 minutes in before my brain said "Please, no more" when watching live.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

Are you still alive? Do you have all your brain cells

[@IceZachara]

​@@bipstymcbipste5641 I'm fairly sure I lost at least some when they said about Daenerys being crazy for thinking she can walk through fire.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

Right? "Walking through fire is crazy" Not like she had other instances of not being burnt to give her that idea, in the show at least

[@Angelofexecution]

I managed to listen to about the same amount while crocheting. But I eventually skipped to the last five minutes before the memes. I didn't like the pussyfooting around the questions or this guy's answers which were contradictory just for the sake of showing he watched the show right and we all watched it wrong.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@@Angelofexecution I watched all of it so what does that make me

[@davidgallego1652]

This guy seems like he has very malleable opinions for many parts of Game of Thrones. Like he would rather change his opinions to match what the show wanted fans to think rather than stand firm with what he really thinks.

[@ComradeCommissarYuri]

MauLer: “are you done??” MauLer: “mind if I finish now??” MauLer: “that’s a no!!”

[@Pink.andahalf]

Funniest part of the stream.

[@omarfoudeil2497]

"That's so Interesting, continue Mauler." 🤣🤣

[@followingtheroe1952]

Aragorn doesn't care about the innocent, he was just fighting the orcs because eventually they were going to kill him!

[@ProxyDoug]

"It's not bad, you just built an expectation that it was not going to be shit" Sadly, this argument is becoming so common lately.

[@yokesplooge2852]

51:34 this is just frustrating I think Jaime is smart enough to realize a crippled swordsman will hardly make a difference against the army of the dead so he's not there for self preservations sake he wanted to stand with the people saving the world cause he cares about the world.

[@itwasalladream7134]

You guys were too easy on this ego ballsack

[@Turinnn1]

"I'm just happy you think that's bad" Mauler summed up in one sentence? ,😄

[@NinaInfinity]

This guy lost me when he said the common people were rejecting Danny. During the Bells episode they were screaming at her to kill the queen and take the throne. She could have easily done that. For her to actually go out of her way to kill them all was not set up right. If they wanted her to go Mad, we needed more build up.

[@BigBroTejano]

Weren’t people crying out and begging for the bells to be rung? Meaning you had a city full of people begging for this fight to end and for the city to be surrendered to Danny and to her rule.

[@ericm3327]

Don’t you see how both of those interpretations could be right? Mauler: *deadpan* “NO” 🤣💀

[@BertzTriscut]

I'm 42 minutes in, and this guy says that he's right a lot. I'm under the impression that he cares less about being accurate and more about HIM being right. "The show is bad because this, this, and this." "No it's good because I'm right."

[@lucidhound4632]

Yeah, and he claims he's so smart and knowledgeable of the show because he went back and rewatched it. It's like dude, many other fans have rewatched the seasons and they understand the writing of the show, clearly you don't and you think you're so smart and right.

[@BertzTriscut]

@@lucidhound4632 Yeah, it's pretty narcissistic, isn't it? I understand the irony of me calling out someone else's narcissism while tooting my own horn, but even my dumbass is able to discern how he's misinterpreting everything. Though having listened to him a bit more, I think it's a combination of narcissism and desperately wanting the show to still be good while knowing it isn't.

[@BBTManiac]

he's EXTREMELY talented, and VERY flexible. He can speak and blow at the same time, and he's still able to speak with himself in his mouth

[@crimsonpotemkin]

"All narratives are subjective" "Class consciousness"

[@proudsaiyanprince2651]

“Sounds like some fuckin commie gobbly gook.”

[@shotgunmasterQL]

Me thinking to myself: "So, who was this guy again?" Mauler later in the video: "So, what was up with the Christmas music?" *wheeze flashbacks*

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

Wait, that was HIM?!

[@JarPanda]

Like... This guy is wrong. He's so very wrong and I don't think he's a stupid man so why can't he just admit his stances aren't that strong and he might be wrong? It's so annoying. Just concede! Whenever he's driven into a corner he changes the subject. What a damn coward.

[@Daniel145D]

He thinks he’s smarter than he actually is and he won’t even consider any argument against his opinion

[@wastelandwandering4983]

Day 71 of my journey. Was able to finish up episode 57, an efap mini on batwoman, and efap gaming #4. Starting here at the tail end of the work day. I normally don’t have the ability to listen in the weekends but might have a chance. I will continue to update my trudge through the big massive.

[@wastelandwandering4983]

Update. Was able to listen a little on day 72 and 73. Finished this episode on day 74. This guy wanted so bad for it to fit. I have even less understanding of GoT then Rag’s and the is guy still couldn’t convince me.

[@EnsignRedshirtRicky]

Season 8 is horrific just from a continuity standpoint alone. You may like it, but any time anyone asks if I want to watch GoT I will say: "Not today"

[@hashaborgonja]

"Well, we all saw that Danerys was going to quit being a queen and take up clown school, she told a joke a couple of times, how can you not see that?" I can post-hoc rationalise all you like buddy, doesn't make it well crafted.

[@capthavic]

That Yezen guy was already failing badly, but the moment he brought out that "the walk of shame was misogynistic" crap he lost any shred of credibility left with me.

[@BarneyGoogl]

"The inciting incident was Bran being pushed out the window" Ok, but Jamie wouldn't have been in Winterfell unless Elisa killed Jon. Elisa wouldn't kill Jon without Little Finger's influence...Don't forget the letter Elisa sent to Cat implicating the Lannisters in Jon Arryn's death. If you want to go back even further you could look at the interesting little fact that Aerys was actually rather sane until he enlisted the service of a certain young Eunuch, which leads to Jamie killing the 'mad king'

[@ToothofaShark]

The long night was the real inciting incident

[@TheJim9191]

I'm going through the EFAP back catalogue and no debate gave me second hand exhaustion like this one. You guys have so much patience for people this exasperating to speak to.

[@Kernwadi]

I have watched this video probably at least 10 times by now... And each time I was as frustrated as I was the very first time.

[@Rinchen8192]

And the Gold Medal for the Mental Gymnastic Marathon goes to....

[@Bjaxe7]

she held the god damn dragon egg that was in fire for a long time and didn't burn so she had confirmation that she was immune to fire. listening to this guy made me realize that I can hear my brain cells dying lol

[@Zer0Hour17]

This guys whole argument is "people who don't like it don't understand it, but I like it because I do understand it."

[@supershadey09]

Also, he just happened to get what he wanted with King Bran. I'd have more respect if he wanted someone else to be on the throne

[@JewishFrog]

"There was this one scene in season 1 or 2 where they've said that thing vaguely connecting to the events of last season that's why it makes perfect sense."

[@RandomCarrot2806]

I appreciate having guests on that disagree completely and have a very different perspective, I just wish those guests were better at arguing for their positions (or better prepared) because it's so hard to listen to people argue poorly and get stuff factually wrong without frequent breaks when you know there are much better arguments for their position than the ones they are putting forth. Not to be overly demeaning or insulting to the guest but it just makes it seem like the EFAP crew is arguing with a child.

[@nillynush4899]

Apparently Batwoman got even worse... so episode 3 gonna be a good roast one

[@OutsideTheTargetDemographic]

Why are you talking about Batwoman? Star Wars is coming out!

[@НатальяЖданова-л2р]

And season 3 now.

[@ComTrag]

Dude lost the argument when he said The 100 was a great show.

[@yezenirl6331]

The 100 is hilarious bro what are you talking about.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

To be fair the first season is teenage cringe, but it accually starts to explore quite dark _themes_ going foward. Its accually has become quite an enjoyable show. I found it to be a better (Fear the) Walking Dead because it isnt dragging along at a snails pace.

[@yezenirl6331]

Seth the 100 is an amazing mix of teenage cringe and genocide.

[@ComTrag]

@@yezenirl6331 I'd enjoyed it, but I wouldn't call it great or good. Think I liked the Lord of the Flies, tribal shit better than rest of it. goes off the rails quick. It understanding how radiation works is ... Well special

[@matthewmuir8884]

Ugh; I have relatives who watch that show. I'd normally at least give it credit for an interesting premise (humans having to leave Earth and live in a Space Station, then they send their least wanted to Earth to see if it's habitable), but the show itself is such pseudo-edgy nonsense that I can't bring myself to do so. All these pseudo-edgy post-apocalypse dystopia shows and films that spawned after The Hunger Games (and yes; I'm including The Hunger Games itself in this list) are all so bad! Any time anyone mentions the YA Dystopia sub-genre, I want to vomit.

[@Xearrik]

"I don't think any human being can do math in that way, with humans lives." 10 seconds earlier. "Daenerys was a net positive because she freed a bunch of people."

[@10MLaw]

A man who continues speaking when another is trying to respond , shows a person who has a rational of pushing his own point

[@10MLaw]

Short man: I'm not trying to make any jumps She just loves burning people Rag's: Why are you making that assumption?

[@theaverageDon]

This guy ruined the ‘subjective meme,’ and boi listening to this a second time: his arguments are lackluster backed up by weak subjectivity, him interrupting everyone was even more OBVIOUS and annoying, and ultimately sounds like the worst person to get into an objective debate

[@Comradcommodore]

Why do people keep saying D and D ran out of material, when they cut out material (Dorne)

[@dragonknightleader1]

Because GRRM hasn't finished his own books, which is why D&D don't have anything to adapt so they had to wing it. I don't hate D&D nearly as much as GoT fans. I just see them as writers thrust into the showrunner position because GRRM wasn't actually suited for that task. They effectively got battlefield promotions and didn't know what to do.

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

@@dragonknightleader1 They ran themselves out of material. They could've either gone at a slower pace or waited.

[@umngyr]

wait, did that guy argue around the 30 minute mark, that HIS emotional bias is better than other people's emotional bias, because the character he was invested in won? Edit: also, how does he know how jamie feels definitively? Wouldn't that be demonstrated by jamies behavior?

[@Arko777777]

It's well established before that Dany is immune to hot things (she was holding dragon eggs and didn't get burn), so her going into the pyre is believable and, as EFAP crew pointed out, she wouldn't continue deeper into the fire if it burned her.

[@BigBroTejano]

But are you a doctor?

[@ToothofaShark]

@@BigBroTejano No he's a dentist

[@AZAkaAK92]

MauLer: as you see Other guy: blaa blaa blaa MauLer: can I finish Other guy: blaa blaa blaa MauLer: you done Other guy: blaa blaa blaa blaa MauLer: guess not Hahahahaha literally crying

[@Xearrik]

"Daenerys is crazy because she walked into fire and didn't know she wasn't going to burn." That same scene Jorah: I wont watch you burn. Daenerys: Is that what you think? *Goes on to give a speech about how she's going to lead them and then steps into the fire. Do you deny she didn't perform a magical spell that woke the dragons from stone eggs? She was given visions of the magic and how it works. She would only be mad if the magic wasn't real. She knew she wasn't going to burn... The confirmation came the moment she got near the flames and didn't feel the pain of the heat.

[@Mega2chan]

man, every time nerdrotic shows up in EFAP he struggles to make a good argument. He’s lucky the opposition was just as bad

[@FringeSpectre]

Agreed. Mauler and Rags are probably cringing everytime he speaks.

[@jwc-lw3sp]

I sadly have to agree, I like Nerdrotic and he clearly loves nerdom, but his debating skills have much to be desired

[@YourBlackLocal]

You guys should do a deep dive into the leaked finale script, just to see some awful writing.

[@JewishFrog]

I've never heard the word "rationale" used so many times.

[@oRnch199]

Really great to hear Yezen allow Mauler and Rags talk every once in a while on their own show.

[@10MLaw]

A man:OH the Fans are thinking on behalf of the characters! The same man: Don't you think Dnaries enjoyed the moment she fed a slaver to s dragon

[@christianmenard3233]

After watching this live and rewatching it this morning, here what I can conclude at this time (I am just theorizing here...I am just a massive in the end...): Yezen had problems with season 8; he even points them out during the conversation. He even said that he went back and rewatch some parts or some episodess to try to undestand more of the conclusion. While these are perfectly fine even recommanded attitude towards anything (series, movies, books, etc) I think he when back to get some good ol' confirmation bias. He said that pretty much everything he envsion for the end of this series happenned: Bran becomes the king, Denerys becoming mad/burning kings landing, John back to the wall, etc. But he couldn't understand why it was bad during his initial vewing of season 8. The serie gave him the ending he was ,somewhat, whishing for. At that point, he went back into the serie to find parts, quotes, or anything that could confirm to him that he was right and that the whole ending is awesome since he got the ending he was whishing for. In his mind he was wrong for disliking it and he went to confirm that, in the end, He was always right to wish for that endind. He uses "Themes" and feelings talking points to justify this. And whenever Mauler, Rags or Nerdrotic had points againts this and he didn't even have a "real" comeback to refute the points, he always go back bacl to : "Well we both have our opinions and because the show validate my point of views, I am therefore right'. For him themes and the message are more important than the pesky "logistic" of an episode that, as he says, they did not bother him, or he did not put much thought into them.... In the end he never gave any real stats, always pointing to the sub-reddit of the show/book, concluding that only toxic fans argue against the series ending. It was a big "This is fine since it define the theme of X in that episode, scene, charater, etc" TLDR: Yezen use confirmation bias by saying: "This is fine since it define the theme of X in that episode, scene, charater, etc".