Efteling Is Converting Their Steam Engines To Battery Power...

[@FlyingScott]

Since recording this video word has gone round about the conversion being achieved by removing all mechanical linkages on the locomotive and having the tender push the dead locomotive along, like a Trackmaster loco, however no Dutch source seems to confirm this. I am also keen to see what people will correct me on. And before you say anything, yes, I am aware I misspoke that the Efteling has an emissions minimum - what I meant was of course an emissions maximum.

[@toyotaprius79]

Having electric tenders to assist a live steam in start ups and braking/regen seems like a no brainer in keeping fuel usage at a minimum while also preserving steam in action not least by reduced strain Electric elements inside to heat the boiler more efficiently (and on whatever power they call green) has been done in Switzerland and other countries before And if the park wishes to minimise carbon, best thing they should do is rewild the land and rewetting land where possible

[@MatecaCorp]

The environmental concerns is just an excuse for budget cuts. Steam locomotives can be run nearly carbon neutral, such as using recycled cooking oil. From the budget perspective, a conversion is never going to work as well as buying an all new outline locomotive, both in terms of maintenance and efficiency. Every park that has converted steam locomotives to outlines has had major issues with reliability, and often it takes years and multiple manufacturers to get them working to an acceptable standard. The best option in their situation would be to donate or sell the locomotives and buy a couple brand new steam outlines.

[@Edgar1972]

It is about avoiding 8% of NOx emissions so Efteling can use that deposition space in their environmental permit to realize growth. I don’t believe they have even considered alternative fuels, even fossil light oil firing would materially decrease NOx emissions. Disney also manages to run its steamers on renewable diesel so you have a fair point.

[@mlp-hot-rod5824]

Why not just get a new battery engine? Converting a steamer to electric is going to backfire horridly.

[@VestedUTuber]

Depends on how they're doing the conversion. Chances are they're going to probably gut the boiler and firebox, stick the batteries in there, and then install a traction motor and transmission in the frame underneath. The result would be very similar to a 7 1/2" gauge steam-outline electric locomotive and would be reliable and easy to operate, but the conversion would be very extensive, expensive, complex and not worth it when carbon-neutral fuels are an option.

[@Yamauma-No.10]

And is utterly blasphemous.

[@PHSR_Productions]

@@VestedUTuberI don’t think so. I think they’re going to just gut the firebox and turn it into an electrical heater to boil the water. Switzerland did something similar during WWII.

[@bussesandtrains1218]

they're not particularly smart

[@toyotaprius79]

​​@@PHSR_Productions Two different things though. In Switzerland was out of necessity and cheaper to use up massive excess of hydroelectricity The element heaters have also been preheaters before the fire got ready cutting down start up times. Having a preheaters and battery tender to take up the strain at starting and stopping seems like the best adaptation The thought of shoving a battery pack in a gutted boiler seems really off-putting as both a fan of steam and batteries

[@DangerAngelous]

Ohh I didn’t know they were making full(-ish) size DCC trains with sound and those newfangled smoke generators!

[@legdig]

A steam engine should run on steam, anything else is a mutant.

[@toyotaprius79]

But why not a battery tender?

[@VestedUTuber]

Mostly agreed, but what about models too small to feasibly be built as live steam?

[@Victor-056]

Indeed. I do not mind if they are using electricity to make the steam engine work, but complete conversion to an electric engine? May as well build a new one from scratch.

[@trainmaster844]

The Grand Canyon Railway and US Sugar run their steam locomotives on Waste Vegetable Oil. Why Efteling haven’t dabbled with this idea is beyond me, considering they probably have several restaurants within the park (or even those in reasonable distance) that could produce the quantity of WVO needed in a season. The battery-powered move is short-sighted and not looking at what could be done to provide a true Steam experience instead of “smoke and mirrors”.

[@ivanthevaluable2559]

THIS ^^^ Also I come from where 148, US Sugar's vegetable-oil-powered steam engine, runs. (not Clewiston though)

[@VestedUTuber]

A lot of heritage railways in the US have been converting their steam locomotives to oil-fired - which includes WVO.

[@TheNwr1]

Honestly kinda surprised they haven’t considered fire less locomotives. A form of steam locomotive that is carbon-neutral/fully green. And perfect for short runs, like this. It’s not impossible to turn regular steam locomotives into fireless anyways: it was done in Cuba. With enough dedication, it could be done here.

[@casperreininga3253]

The thing about the Steam Caroussel is that it already runs on electricity, and has done so since I believe the 70's. The steam engine in the middle IS the original, but is also moved by electricity.

[@Shipwright1918]

Ultimate one can't really say much if one's name isn't on the pink slip or paying the bills, though as a steam fan it is sad to hear. Largely why I got into small scale live steam. If all else fails I have my own engines and my own little line in the garden to keep the steam flowing on my own terms.

[@TweetsieRailroader]

This was a very poignant video, one that I must applaud you for. I will say: Steam isn’t necessarily incompatible with a carbon neutral world. After all, Steam is just boiled water, and all you need is fuel to properly heat the water. The Grand Canyon Railway in Arizona and the Disneyland Railroad in California’s use of recycled vegetable and fry oil respectively proves that it can work with little issue. Ultimately however, Efteling has decided this to be the best course of action, and I’m okay with that. Being from the United States, I’m incredibly fortunate that working steam in theme parks is still super common. As someone who loves theme park steam, this is definitely saddening, but there is still plenty of fish in the sea for me. Definitely curious to see what you had planned for this week’s video.

[@bentullett6068]

They should just sell the steam locomotives off and replace them with fake electric replica locomotives like other theme parks have done.

[@sudrianliam1199]

I've no idea why they didn't simply opt for the more logical (and reasonable) solution of converting them to HALF battery power; that is make the heating electric, battery powered and still run the engine on actual steam. There's no CO2 emission with that and with engines that small, the batteries should last long enough. Plus the conversion would surely be far less expensive...... Damn pity if you ask me.

[@42Porter]

As far as I know the only time steam locos have been run like that was using overhead power lines. I doubt that sort of infrastructure is feasible here. Battery tech is still very limiting. Steam locos are incredibly inefficient so would require a lot of electricity.

[@sudrianliam1199]

@@42Porter Naturally. But at that small size of steam engine.... it would at least be worth a try!

[@toyotaprius79]

This! This is what I find so easily missed in steam preservation. Having electric elements to start up quicker without relying on the fire and keeping it just warm overnight to reduce metal stresses of cooling down Or even a battery tender on the back

[@sudrianliam1199]

@@toyotaprius79 Well, it'd be out of the question for standard or even larger narrow gauge locos; wouldn't be feasible with the state that modern battery technology is in. With engines as small as the Efteling ones though...

[@42Porter]

@@sudrianliam1199 I would like to see it done.

[@warrenlehmkuhleii8472]

Don’t get me wrong, I like the environment as much as the next guy. But we are not talking about a coal fired power plant here. There is something to be said about heritage.

[@VestedUTuber]

Not to mention that even if you're concerned about the tiny impact of a narrow gauge steam locomotive, there are carbon-neutral fuels out there that are perfectly suitable for the job.

[@Spork-kz4nu]

@@VestedUTubereven main line locos aren’t that bad as they’re running on heritage lines, which are surrounded by trees, nature and other things that can cancel out the CO2.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@Spork-kz4nu Burning coal or other fossil fuels gives a net increase in CO2 in the global ecosystem overall, whereas biofuels either don't or have a much more reduced net increase depending on if their production method requires a heat source. Local plants can help but they don't entirely eliminate the CO2 emissions because they can't absorb it fast enough, so you have to rely on CO2 absorption on a global level.

[@Lillstisse661]

If they can run certain mainline locomotives on sawdust briquettes they sure can do the same for this little guy, either that or just thin firewood.

[@Spork-kz4nu]

@@VestedUTuber yeah, but what I’m saying is heritage railways have little impact on the environment, so instead of governments focusing on them they should focus on the big players like fossil fuel power industries.

[@toyotaprius79]

Converting Steam into any other propulsion is sacraligously dumb and needlessly complicated like you said risking many backflaws, unless it's a battery tender or a new loco entirely to double head I'm all for electrification and I find how bizarre that battery electrics are seen as novel and strange despite many BEV locos built in the past. Dublin's Drumm Battery EMU for example Having a battery loco that can take up the strain in starting and stopping/regen seems like a no-brainer for any steam preservationist.

[@abrr2000]

If we assume their converting an engine with a life expired boiler. We can treat the boiler itself as basically little more than scrap. This means we can pull out the pipes, drill or cut holes as neccessary in it to use the resulting internal space as a space for all the batteries, electronics and motor. Heck, you can even attatch a potentiomiter to the regulator arm that goes through the boiler and use that as a direct input to the control unit. The pistons can be made inoperable by replacing the piston rods with rods that don't have a piston head internally. (but keep the old ones on the engine somwhere for if undoing the conversion is ever wanted) Achieving motive power from the engine itself may be difficlut. Especially for a well engine, short of cutting dirty great holes in the well tank to grant access to the drive shaft.

[@nanoic2964]

I often wonder if there’s practical or cost reasons why these heritage railways and parks can’t just switch to biocoal to be carbon neutral. Electric conversation sounds like a costly and unsatisfying solution.

[@martinfaland4712]

the issue I've heard from a few of the crews that have tried bio coal on a few of the american engines is that while it puts out the same amount of heat, youre shoveling more frequently than on a coal burner, and I think bio coal is more expensive than regular coal (I could be wrong on that) I have seen several successful conversions to bio diesel for both the disney locomotives along with Grand Canyon's two steam locomotives and US Sugar #148

[@marshallluddite]

THE WORLD IS NOT COMING TO AN END NEXT WEEK DUE TO CARBON !

[@DerekWalsh-l4i]

Is this not an April Fool joke, just reaching KZbin about three weeks late? If not, there is no hope for the world.

[@PowerTrain611]

They would surely be better off getting a new steam outline engine built and preserving the original historical material of their existing engines.

[@JAdg75oo00]

Do me a favor. Do not bring that idea over in my country thank you 🚂

[@robertchapman6795]

Remind me to NEVER go there. #whenidiotsruntheshow

[@sirmatsdubois2509]

Technically I do think I have an alternative idea for battery powered but it still environmentally friendly to an extent. basically convert the engines to run on air pressure. generated from a generator inside of the tender. it won't be exactly the same but at least as he manages could operate with out the company having to be concerned about the boilers failing. but even then I do agree with him that it won't be the same if the steam engines aren't actually producing steam. that's a major drawing point of steam locomotion. and if you can't understand that then…. you're better off finding an alternative.

[@VestedUTuber]

Compressed air also has very limited range. Both compressed air locomotives and non-combustion steam locomotives have been built before, but they have MASSIVE tanks on them. You'd never be able to convert a conventional steam locomotive to either power source while preserving the original appearance of the locomotive.

[@sirrliv]

I mean... Desperate bid at a happy note, Happy 25th Anniversary to RollerCoaster Tycoon. . . . Shoot, I'm only 34 and now I just feel old.

[@TheSudrianTerrier653]

i feel like the Conversion will be Similar Methods to the Swiss Steam-Electric locos, An Electric heating element installed in the Firebox to boil water.

[@DennisLora2001]

You did an amazing job with this one I'm impressed 0:28

[@DapperCombineProductions]

Something i think would be a better idea to just have an electric motor turn the wheels, not extreme modification, keep all the mechanisms intact, But have the motors drive the engine.

[@sebastiankutter3630]

I wonder why they don't convert the engine to work kind of like an electric kettle, i.e. have electricity boil the water.

[@VestedUTuber]

I wonder if they even considered running carbon-neutral biofuels, however I get the feeling that the Netherlands doesn't care about whether the emissions from burning a particular kind of fuel get reabsorbed by the production process of said fuel or not, seeing as the EU's policy on that is "BATTERY OR BUST, AND DAMN THE CONCIQUENCES!".

[@42Porter]

Which policy is that? Could you direct me to it please.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@42Porter It's not just one specific policy, but their general choice of action involving climate protection. As an example, they're banning _ALL_ internal combustion engine powered cars by 2035, regardless of fuel type or the presence of a hybrid drive system. Which means no biodiesel, no ethanol, no waste-based CNG. Even hydrogen combustion engines aren't getting an exception. Oh, and there's no consideration for alternative battery technologies either. Honestly seems like the EU's decision-making is ruled as much by big lithium as the US's decision-making is ruled by big oil.

[@AutismTakesOn]

@@VestedUTuber To be fair, there's a difference between cars and steam locos. Cars are common and heavily used, with batteries not making much of a difference, and conversions to battery power being straightforward. Also, there's no internal combustion engine that can run on 100% biofuel. With steam locomotives, it's different. They're rare, for one thing, with high maintenance costs and a small amount of builders making some theme parks opt for steam-outline locomotives instead of the real deal. Converting steam locomotives to battery power hasn't, to my knowledge, ever been done before, and even then it'd be more cost-effective to buy a new steam-outline locomotive rather than converting a real steam loco to batteries. With biofuels, though, since steam locos are external-combustion, they can be converted to 100% biofuel with little or no modifications. It's also worth mentioning that being a theme park, Efteling likely has lots of fried food, the used oil from which could be refined for use in oil-fired steam locos. I agree what Efteling is trying to do is unwise, but comparing cars to steam locos is like apples and oranges.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@AutismTakesOn You completely misread my comment. I'm not comparing the two, I'm simply using cars as an example of the EU's tunnel visioned focus on electrification.

[@AutismTakesOn]

@VestedUTuber Even so... There are disadvantages to all. To my knowledge, again, no car can run on 100% biodiesel or ethanol. With CNG, methane is a gas, which, while it can be liquefied, same with hydrogen, doing so is extremely expensive. With hydrogen combustion engines, some nitrous oxide is produced when burned with air, not to mention most hydrogen is from natural gas, a fossil fuel. Electric cars, really, are the only option that's both completely green and affordable. Yes, lithium batteries are an issue, but there's work on introducing newer batteries to replace them. So, for cars, at least, I can't really argue with the EU's focus on electric cars only.

[@NW-gi1cp]

This is worse than what Amtrak did to their f40ph's 😢

[@VestedUTuber]

Converting them to cab cars? A lot of F40PHs managed to escape that fate, by the way. Metra still has theirs, and a few other commuter services use them as backup or maintenance of way locomotives.

[@schwarzermoritz]

You can boil water with electricity...

[@Londontransitduck]

Its beter to get a electric locomotive to push the steam locomotive instead because when not I. Youse they can display it

[@toyotaprius79]

A steam+battery double header is exactly the more practical solution

[@Londontransitduck]

I khow the locomotive survives shame I cant be ther to hellp

[@jancraft3539]

What if they used electricity to actually just heat the water to steam to stop emissions because steam by itself is carbon-neutral

[@timothyteo4602]

Wouldn’t be the least surprised if Efteling falls to the same “go woke go broke” issue

[@caledonianrailway1233]

that’s a stupid idea

[@theextremeanimator4721]

*_Exactly!_*

[@caledonianrailway1233]

Why don’t they run them on these carbon neutral boilers from the mackwell locomotive company

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

*EXCUSE ME WHAT THE FU-?!?!*

[@Northerner_Transport_Hub]

Nahh this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. Why not replace the locomotives entirely with steam outline battery locos, Alan Keef is great at making locos like that. This is just spoiling historic locomotives for the sake of 'forward thinking'