Elden Ring - A Huge Oversight for Godfrey

[@ooloh]

One of the reasons I'm thinking Godfrey is coded this way is because of the distance the player can create during the windup of the first shockwave, and From Software's hitboxes being limited to spheres and cylinders. Distance would largely affect the number of spheres needed to be present in order to cover the gaps made between each sphere with that distance, and on top of that, if their intention is for the player to jump the attack, then each hitbox would likely need to be deep underneath the arena, only appearing above ground at a jumpable height, which also decreases the amount of space they can cover of course because of a lower surface area at the top of a sphere. So overall, this would be a more convenient way to make this fight from a development standpoint. If only they remembered to do the one thing that makes it work, but still a peak boss

[@bloostenXD]

Oil up stream when

[@CreaturaVioleta]

if from can use cylinders for hitboxes, then why not make the shockwave a huge cylinder that is either very short or just so low down that only a small portion of it goes above the arena floor? surely that would eliminate the need for only allowing moves classified as "jumps" within the code to make it through the attack unscathed, opening up more options for the player such as some of the ones showcased here?

[@ooloh]

@ Generally, they reserve cylinders for attaching to bones on a model, like for a sword hitbox, although I’m not sure that that is an actual limiting factor. Otherwise, they chose not to for convenience most likely. It is easier to implement it this way, although I guess perhaps not if you have to flag every action that leaves the ground. There is no definitive answer

[@noamias4897]

Couldn’t they add a giant, thick but very short cylinder as the hit box on the ground?

[@BlueSin-xw7id]

Unfortunately bosses like Godrick and Bayle are the same which is a bummer considering the combo potential

[@Sekiro_lover]

Zullie the witch type editing

[@ooloh]

I've been taking inspiration recently she is amazing

[@Sekiro_lover]

@ooloh ye i like her work a lot

[@blazex224]

@@oolohI love it, I like the idea of combining that style with videos about technical stuff when fighting or learning bosses

[@blob8396]

where's the zelda music?

[@RashFever26]

I thought it was a Zullie video at first until I noticed the lack of Zelda music

[@interloper9589]

I've been working on a Godfrey mod for a while by now, so this could be something I could change as a fix. Very interesting, thanks!

[@Nsscll]

What Godfrey mod?

[@bananacorn4375]

It would be hard to implement as you would need a lot of small hitboxes like his cruicable knight stomps work, but also to cower the whole arena.

[@interloper9589]

@@Nsscll "Vanilla plus" type of mod. More difficult moveset, cool combos, and fixing any annoying stuff. But also keeping it polished and not too over the top. Hasn't really been done before other than some crappy paid mods (and they aren't amazing either) so I decided to do it myself.

[@noamias4897]

@@interloper9589Cough cough garden of eyes cough

[@thebluehood35]

@@interloper9589 I guess we’re on the same page here. Though we have similar ideas for one attack (Gigantic Eruption for Phase 4), it’s gonna be interesting so see how both of our works would look like once it reaches a pretty long point of development

[@malikhittam1440]

As a programmer, It really confuses me why they decided to give the attack a large hitbox and individually add flags to hundreds of animations instead of just going with the obvious route and making the shockwave hitboxes lower to the ground and have the animations just avoid them naturally. That just sounds like so much extra work which could easily have been avoided lol

[@mmmmmhhhbeepbeep]

I would imagine it would be to prioritise the player's input over the character's position. If they are flagged as jumping (which is how most players dodge the attack) it guarantees the player is fairly rewarded for timing and input. If the ground was the hitbox a player may input jump but still get hit. (This is just my guess).

[@alekosthecrow]

@@mmmmmhhhbeepbeep not really actually, since when you jump you don't have a hitbox on your legs and that makes dodging attacks that way much easier

[@Kittiesftw]

​@alekosthecrow fair point tbh I really cannot think of a counter argument for that

[@FatedAwakening]

It's mostly down to shape of the hitboxes Fromsoft uses, being capsules and spheres. They use them because the calculations for these kinds of hitboxes are simpler (adding in the possibility of corners complicates the maths a bit). The problem seems to be that they don't *not* use them even when it would be more efficient not to, perhaps for tech debt reasons. In theory it would be most efficient to just test the player's y-coordinate, then you don't need any hitbox, but because they only use spheres and capsules, they have to have a sphere with a wide enough diameter to include the entire arena, which would also make the hitbox massive vertically. And if they lowered the sphere, it would lead to a weird interaction where being far away would let you jump it but being close wouldn't, or it just wouldn't reach the edges of the arena period. Edit: the inverse can be seen with Miquella's light pillars, a large amount of which can be jumped over because they're a single tiny sphere on the ground. In theory it would be more efficient to just test the player's x and z coordinates, as it essentially already does that but also has to consider the y coordinates unnecessarily. This would mean creating a hitbox that would be an infinitely long cylinder from the ground to the sky. But since they can't express that with their already existing system for hitboxes that doesn't do corners, instead, tiny spheres on the ground that let you jump over these extremely tall light pillars.

[@Ghorda9]

every collision box is a pill (a sphere is just a really short pill), that's how the engine handles it, it can't do any other shape.

[@ApapaneNui]

Ah, that explains a lot. I would try using Wing Stance to dodge the shockwave and get a hit in, so you can imagine my surprise when I was clearly in mid air but still got knocked down. Waterfowl Dance seems to work, but I don’t know if it’s consistent.

[@PeterEhik]

The wing stance one is quite annoying cause i seem to be able to jump some attacks with it but its far from consistent

[@Sinhsseax]

If pre patch Consort gave us anything it was this channel becoming what it is today due to the Radahn guide. Thanks for the great work. All this time I used to think, that it was just hitboxes, but when I first realized that Messmer's Orb didn't seem to work for many jumps and that attacks like Bayles Nuke just had a huge sphere as a hitbox it dawned on me how this worked. But I didn't know it affected so many moves. This is tragic. I don't know if this will get fixed, because it's a very niche issue.

[@darkdruidsvale]

chances are if it does ever get worked on we'd probably see a few versions of it as the flag gets added to the ones that where missed by the previous patch, we'd probably still come out the other side of these patches with actions missing the tag but would likely be very few and not worth the effort to add in, hopefully a modder gets around to doing it though

[@arekb5951]

I've noticed a strange camera issue in the launch version of ER, namely if you use your left thumbstick for running and right thumbstick for panning the camera, the camera will follow the left thumbstick direction for a split second and then the right one, so for example, if you're running forward and want to pan the camera to the right, the camera will bump up and then go to the right, despite you pulling the right thumbstick only to the right. You can make things worse by leaning the right stick veeery slightly to whatever direction, the camera will then slowly follow only your left thumbstick direction, completely ignoring slight right thumbstick inputs. This also works when you're running and slowly dragging your mouse across the mousepad, so it's not a controller issue. Why am I writing this then? Well, recently I went back to ER to play SOTE and the camera issue is still there, so I doubt jump flags are getting a fix anytime soon 😂 How did they manage to tie character movement to camera panning is a whole another topic 😅

[@bananacorn4375]

The same is with Bayles Nuke Attack. When I was doing the Guts build against him, I felt disappointed when I couldn’t use the Dragon Katana Ash of war to dodge his nuke.

[@ulysses5340]

This. It also happened to me several times. You can jump the attack normally but Dragonwound Slash AoW doesn't actually register as a jump. Despite levitating you very high. I never understood this but now I do.

[@Bayle-the-Dread-Dragon]

Skill issue

[@ulysses5340]

@@Bayle-the-Dread-Dragon holy shit

[@OzzyBlazeGaming]

@@Bayle-the-Dread-Dragon Ngl, you had me in the first half, lmao!

[@warcoder]

Curse you ​@@Bayle-the-Dread-Dragon

[@dziosdzynes7663]

ongbal in shambles rn

[@zezomorsy3165]

I'm noticing almost all of the animations without jumping flag thing are dlc animations. Maybe they just didn't think about the interaction with dlc weapons and godfrey

[@ilikevideogames4331]

It's not just godfrey though. The furnace golem stomps and rellanna's moon nuke work the same way. This is how most jumpable attacks work.

[@thebluehood35]

Yeah, I’d say this is more towards the issue where those weapon arts didn’t count as a jump for some reason and I find it really strange. So it’s moreso towards fixing those weapon arts or incants where they needed to include a jump flag on all of the ones where the player isn’t touching the ground. Still didn’t change the fact that Godfrey is my favourite boss and I just hope the jump flag for certain weapon arts/incants gets fixed in the next patch. Or I’ll just have to do it myself for my upcoming Hoarah Loux Overhaul

[@ooloh]

Yes, I also don't understand why they didn't simply check for whether the player is in contact with the ground collision, which is a sure-fire way to know whether to grant an exception or not. A lot of these points are probably put down to the limitations of an outdated game engine, sadly

[@mollypolly8631]

@@ooloh I believe the reason the flag is necessary is most jumping animations don't actually move your character's root bone off the ground.

[@glatykoffi6672]

​@mollypolly8631 Probably true as all "flying" enemies in this game can fall off a cliff.

[@nightscout9979]

@@glatykoffi6672 Come to think of it, do the Warhawk and Stormhawk Deenh automatically avoid Godfrey's stomps?

[@ulysses5340]

Very interesting. As someone else also said Bayle's nuke must be using the flag system as well instead of the jumping i-frames. Thanks a lot man, this actually solved lots of questions in my head regarding the jumping invulnerability in ER. Wish they could've done it in a more consistent way like Sekiro but it's still good.

[@Guyy_1]

This is kind of unacceptable to me, the game is telling you that you can jump with abilities that move you into the sky, but then also stabbing you in the back with no rhyme or reason. Fromsoft really needs to graduate from slap on spheres as hitboxes, or actually make sure that everything is flagged the way it's supposed to instead of leaving it to the players to feel out the jank

[@Arfadoz]

This only applies to his shockwave stomps, and not the spike ones. I think it should be clarified.

[@SaxSlaveGael]

Need to start calling you ooloh the witch. Just need that King's Field IV and Zelda sound track 👍

[@OzzyBlazeGaming]

Very much so appreciate you highlighting this. There are also many other technical things that just annoy the hell out of me. An average player may not notice them but an avid one can't miss it. And f me is it frustrating

[@Drett25]

Now i understand why you can dodge attacks with plasidusax breath but not with other jumping breath attacks

[@kindlingking]

I'm personally more annoyed not by the issue itself, but by the fact it's an issue with Godefrey, one of the only Elden Ring bosses that naturally leads you to using jumps and is actually meant to be fought using jumps. Like the only time Elden Ring boss is actually an Elden Ring boss rather than sped up DS3 do over, it has this annoying flaw.

[@BayleGlazer-b1n]

0:55 oh my goodness that shockwave is massive

[@boggle4763]

You know what else is massive

[@BayleGlazer-b1n]

What?

[@boggle4763]

@@BayleGlazer-b1n LOOWWWW TAPPERRR FADDDEEEE

[@BayleGlazer-b1n]

I’m massive

[@toastmaster914]

​@@boggle4763Mass both has mass and is massive

[@Redmeteor200]

Same great content you've always put out Zullie!

[@nicholasscott3287]

"You're supposed to dodge by jumping" And here I am, dodge rolling

[@emrecopur8455]

I love these in-depth look videos. You nailed it! 🎉

[@OmneAurumNon]

Thanks for explaining this! I was very confused by the Bolt of Gransax AoW let me jump over the attack, but I kept getting hit while in air using dragon communion incantations.

[@IVIaximum]

noticed this when doing a wing-stance style kill, didn't realize it was a more widespread issue curious how dancing lion's frost-stomp hitbox works, as I've observed some inconsistencies with aows and incants being able to jump teq it

[@basedneet_n3w0rd3r]

So THAT'S what it is! This has been driving me nuts in co-op. Dragon Breath Incants don't work eithe4.

[@Veloketh]

love the lofi, banger video. I’ve been practicing Godfrey this week for the first time and was really confused by this, wish I would’ve waited till this vid lol

[@laomein1671]

Love this style of editing

[@ela-811]

Favorite thing about Elden Ring is how mfing *ANIME* and cinematic they made attacks and Ashes of War. Woulda been amazing if *All* jumping attacks really had this feature. 00:15 YOU CAN FLY OVER THE SPIKES TO SPEAR THINE ENEMY THROUGH THE SPINE!

[@joebykaeby]

I cannot be the only one who felt like jumping as a combat action in ER feels like absolute trash to begin with

[@OwlScowling]

This is actually at the core, I think, with why some people got bored with Elden Ring's combat. I think it's great that the difficulty level is increased from DS3 (which was too easy IMO). But I don't think there's enough variety with the choices you make in combat. For FromSoft's next game, I'm hoping that there's more interesting choices to make. More attacks that also evade attacks in specific directions, making it more about finding the correct response instead of just the correct timing. Sekiro handled this really well, which is why it was my favorite FromSoft game. Oversights like this really limit the skill ceiling in these games.

[@fredking16]

thank you my goat for this information

[@lemonlordminecraft]

I feel like a FromSoft dev noticed this but said to themselves "eh, this would affect ONGBAL and basically no one else lmao"

[@Lecan14]

That's the content I'm looking for, loved it.

[@Patrick_Gameman]

Amazing explanation as always

[@ulysses5340]

Hey Patrick.

[@Patrick_Gameman]

@ulysses5340 🫡

[@Patrick_Gameman]

🫡 ​@@ulysses5340

[@TheMuslimMan1337]

Thank God for mods like reforged which fixed a lot of these inconsistencies

[@bluewind55]

Interesting! This also explains why it clearly hits you a lot of the time but you take no damage as long as you started your jump animation. Cool video

[@sobo089]

Congrats to 5 k 🎉

[@tomskeleton]

This also happens with Hoarah Loux's earthshaker in pvp iirc. There's probably other moves with this issue but that's the main one that comes to mind

[@Mr.E805]

Elden ring: rise of the fun police

[@jager477]

This seams to be a problem with the ashes of war, spells and skills themselves rather than a problem with Godfrey.

[@UncleCorn]

This channel feels like zullie the witch but for gameplay quirks and neat info instead of lore and development breakdowns, I'm loving it!

[@JonRinzRaccotterz]

Oh man, considering doing a January jam and seeing more hitbox breakdowns is RADICAL. Only confusing part is why use spheres, I figured cause of their (seemingly?) "multitudinous" faces, a way more decimated 'gon or just a set of cubes would be better (say for the gold light attack that sends out spheres from a radius) should still get the job done and cut down on resource usage.

[@wispfire2545]

Here's hoping From notices this video and fixes the jumping AoW's.

[@Creative_Flame9170]

This is very good find that I’m sure not a lot of people were aware of. I was always under the impression that certain AoW just had their own s during their jumping animations while others didn’t, but it seems that it’s more of a hitbox thing with Godfrey, and I imagine no Ash of War actually does have any s when used (or maybe they do, I’m not sure)

[@MatheusLinsCosta]

Best approach would be to make the attack hitbox be a cylinder shape on ground level (instead of a sphere). It would make it "future proof" in many cases. Whenever the player character is not touching the ground it would dodge the attack without requiring extra steps.

[@scottknutson8267]

We now need a 45 minute Vaatividya video explaining why those specific attacks being missed is actually lore accurate

[@amcname8789]

Seeing Eleanora's poleblade used to dodge like that is. . .wow.

[@DudeMcBro]

Thanks for sharing that. That's deeply confusing.

[@clankymocha]

Confrats on 5k!

[@kaonous]

I’ve made hitboxes for bosses in ps4’s game “Dreams” and for an arena-wide attack, I would have made a giant cylindrical hitbox that was about a foot high. In practice it works much better than a spherical hitbox

[@raehik]

Thanks! I love tiny bugs like this. Elden Ring is a massive game, and there are a lot of fairly inconsequential "bugs" floating around that probably won't get fixed. For example, some animations are missing R2 cancel windows. I know of Backhand Blade 1h tap R2 2 and Omen Cleaver 2h jump R2. If you spam R2 after inputting these, it won't do anything until you've gone completely idle. Won't even buffer the R2. It matters very little, because the roll and move windows are fine, but it's probably caught some people out before.

[@nightscout9979]

If you file a bug report, you might be able to get those missing R2 cancel windows fixed.

[@nierism_]

rellanas twin moons and bayles nuke work the same way too

[@knivy6160]

I like to imagine godfrey is just so powerful, he make the air quake. Think like in dragon ball when pebbles start floating, except directed at you. It's just that jumping lets you dodge for purely mechanical reasons.

[@pyromaniak2736]

metronome meme "from are geniuses and everything they do is thinking from the 5th dimension, from are idiots and its a wonder they can get a game to run with their coding" god i love their games

[@leahthegeek9677]

Yoooooo Eleonoras poleblade my BELOVED, unrelated to the video but I just think shes neat. Great video btw.

[@Jormyyy]

Classic From being consistently inconsistent with the most random mechanics lol

[@joshuacook2]

Moral of the story: don't hack hit boxes with flags. Make one that is not circular, or use a bunch of ones that go under ground. Hacks lead to bugs especially as games get larger and more complex, unexpected combinations occur.

[@Jean-Malabar]

10 seconds in the video and i already learned i was doing something wrong by rolling godfrey’s stomp.

[@CodeineCoffee]

Seems over-engineered to me. I wonder why they didn't just make the hitboxes low to the ground?

[@ttchme9816]

We need to get fromsoft to see this

[@corneliusdwyer1824]

Hell yeah, in here before the inevitable blow up.

[@brocksteele7475]

Not surprised to see the DLC stuff having this issue. There seems to be a few little oversights in their coding.

[@shrouded8797]

Ooloh: By now you've probably figured out you're supposed to jump. Me: Uhhhh, sure, yeah, I totally knew that the whole time. Super obvious.

[@ThePopeOfAllDope]

Excellent content!

[@someoneunknown6553]

Very interesting! I would have flagged whether or not you were on the ground rather than jumping. Way less room for error

[@1bucketcrusader834]

YOU'RE MEANT TO JUMP?!

[@SharkyShocker]

Great Video!

[@Scenery-1976]

Quality Build video ❤️❤️❤️

[@Bacon-i9g]

didn't learn anything new but still cool

[@HeyTarnished]

Ooooh having a Zullie The Witch ahh moment, you gotta love it! 😅

[@rauqui5318]

Thanks, fromsoft

[@blackeddeath]

Still the best fight in the game. From would be so real if they fixed this and made it even better

[@moneygrowslikegrass]

Fromsoft hates the Poleblade of the Bud

[@regulareric8759]

and the fromsoft spaghetti code unveiled XD

[@Mr.Starlight_gaming]

Was it really that hard to make the hitbox a thin disc?

[@Kcalb18]

Most of them, are AOW or encantations from dlc.

[@shahzilkhan778]

This also seems to apply to putrescent knight's blue flame aoes. I tried using ekzykes decay ti counter his phase transition blue flame attack and still got hit but not with placidusax's ruin

[@Jxllen.]

Such cool information

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

fromsoft's programming decisions are certainly interesting :/

[@DIGITALGH05T]

it seems like they forget to add the flags in for...like, every single dlc item with a jump i volved? or at least a ton of the dlc items judging by both the video comments

[@gabebernhard4601]

Seems like a lot of the exceptions are from the DLC; could just be an oversight due to it being a much more independent project than previous DLCS

[@sirith9157]

The longer I'm watching and learning about these games, the more I start to hate them. I know game design isn't easy, but damn me if this game isn't made by interns or fundamentally broken. So many bosses and enemies have unnatural rhythm, hitboxes which are visibly hitting while they shouldn't or mechanics which are making them inseanly annoying. You need a PHD to have even the slightest chance at fighting them. This is not a difficulty. It's bs...

[@uyeah1234]

Most 3d games works this way. It's been that way since demon souls. Hitboxes never align with the actual animation because that is impossible to do. The amount of hand crafted man power and calculations needed for every single attack animation is not worth it. What matter is that the attack feels right to dodge even if that hit boxses technically aren't accurate. The problem here is balancing and presentation. If these didnt one shot you or stagger out of counter attacking you wouldnt even notice. However since dark souls bros have this stupid since of pride and think all souls games are hardest things ever made, they push them to make every game harder and harder. So even little mistakes have the harshest of punishments. One miss flagged animation and you lose the fight and have to restart. The souls games have tons and tons of jank and lack of polish that people willfully ignore because fromsoft can never do anything wrong. Hit boxes have always been bad, their games have always been horribly balanced and people tend to remeber the good boss fights and forget that 80% of the bosses are forggetable slosh. Unironically demon souls ds 1 and ds 2 combined maybe have 6 total bosses that are good by todays standards.

[@sqrt-ts2xj]

omg I had been rolling through them this whole time 😭

[@Father_of_Kos]

My favorite attack in the game ❤

[@X36Granitplate]

Then there's prime radahn,s stomp attack, that doesn't check at all if the jump flag is on or not. You get hit regardless whether you are midair or not, which is actually really annoying not gonna lie.

[@AnsonRhys]

I can’t help but notice that the problems only seem to happen with the DLC stuff.

[@darik365]

I straight up didn’t know you could jump that. 99% of the time in combat I never even consider jumping as an option at all.

[@ooloh]

It’s definitely an option! But only really encouraged in some fights, Godfrey being one of them. It’s never required but can be used to get an extra hit and be stylish

[@_iRBiS]

Thank you for this service which is very very good for those who really want a challenge haha ​​GG ooloh ♡

[@giuseppedesantis4274]

I’m currently doing my first no damage against him and I was trying to use Dragon hunter’s katana’s AOW to dodge this hit. A couple of hours later here’s the explanation to my frustration 😂

[@Lumigle]

Ooooh, I tried the My lady AOW and sometimes worked and sometimes no. I guess this is the answer, thanks!

[@Putrefrye]

This makes sense why he removed fall damage, eldenring is the next geshin impact

[@BrianRepine]

I hope they patch a fix for this, some day. It's not too likely at this point, given that they've started working on Nightreign as a new project, but it's certainly not in the realm of impossibility too.

[@mt2r-music]

Its a shame developers these days just don’t care anymore. They couldve at least given us some microtransactions to buy more invincibility frames. On a serious note im kinda confused something big like this hasnt been patched out yet with how many bug fixes they were.

[@aberfordwest4003]

That first one didn’t work because he did a roar as well as the aoe, the roar needs to be rolled through I’m pretty sure

[@noamias4897]

Interesting and clear video and breakdown of gameplay mechanics. I’m curious about how long you think it’d take a developer to go through all of the relevant animations and add the flag, a day? A week? A month? I have no clue about game development btw lol

[@sirith9157]

Maybe three more games

[@chemshanauli6100]

most of AoW affected are from dlc so theres lore reasoning💡, maybe Godfrey helped seal land of shadow therefore his attacks affect any battle arts learned in the shadowland

[@HatTrickzTV]

Biggest flaw for me is his axe still doesn't have a S scaling in str

[@Deadgye]

This video should be emailed to from software with a "fix plz".

[@LordZeroTheNightmare]

nooooo, not messmer's orb, my beloved! at least Crucible Wings works

[@Dr_Hax]

would it be possible to have a e very short cylindrical hitbox? almost disk like so that every animation that rises your hitbox ?

[@saurabh4721]

also when you jump down from torrent into combat. that is also not flaaged as jumpijng.