Elden Ring Lore | Did Margit Defeat Radahn?

Did Morgott Defeat Radahn in combat?
This is a lore debate that has arisen in the community, all arising from one single image during the introductory cinematic. In this Lore video, I will attempt to explain why Radahn seems so small and what the outcome of this struggle may have been. In addition, I will explore some theories surrounding the shattering and the Defence of Leyndell.
Editor: Creators Studio - creatorsstudio.co.uk/
Chapters:
Intro - 0:00
The Arguments - 0:47
Why is Radahn so small? - 2:20
Did Morgott win? - 5:27
The First and Second Defence of Leyndell - 7:10
Cut Content - 9:47
My Conclusion - 11:20
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Follow me on Twitter: / smoughtown
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References:
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Ratatoskr Morgott Video: • Why Does Morgott Call ...
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Soundtrack is Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Sekiro and Elden Ring
Thumbnail by BrightSparkIV: / brightsparkiv
I do not own the rights to Elden Ring, all rights to Fromsoftware
#eldenring #margit #radahn

[@SmoughTown]

What are your theories on this encounter?! Hit me up below!

[@dgalloway107]

My thing is the lower set of arms looks like all 4 arms come from morgott, though obviously he only has 2.

[@koontz1154]

@@dgalloway107 those are radahn's arms trying to grab it and remove it or stop it

[@aj1218]

I am trying to find the painting but their is a David and Goliath painting that seems similar to the pose and posture of this painting. It won't do anything to the theory but I think it was used as a reference...

[@quentinlelievre276]

Radhan aspire to become like Godfrey, Morgott is litteraly Godfrey's son ofc he got his ass handed by the lord of the battlefield true heir.

[@cbg1609]

you gotta read THE ANCESTRAL TRAIL. Boi i can tell you, you'd love it

[@mtszkrk]

I think people tend to forget that Radahn is younger than Morgott. We don't know how much but it may explain the size gap. Considering that Radahn could at some point ride his horse without the gravity magic, we know that he used to be much smaller and that he was a worrior back then already. So it's very much possible that the photo shows the actual sizes of these characters and that Morgott was able to beat younger, less experienced Radahn.

[@christopherflores6541]

Very true. Radahn was probably very strong and accomplished in his youth but nothing compared to his peak fighting malenia(may have spelled name wrong whoops)

[@Glados1080]

@@kushjindal2939 if he survived morgott, then "survived" malenias nuke, then I'd say he was damn near the strongest yeah

[@michaelsiegfried3878]

He also spent all that time eating bodies supposedly so maybe thats when he got big

[@TheReRave]

@@Glados1080 survived and kept the stars in their place, while being basically braindead and only running on instinct. Radahn is the true protagonist.

[@fuzzywuzzy8381]

No, I think most people actually forget that Radahn was already gargantuan way before the Shattering. He already had all his traits way before the shattering. Its kinda worrying that none of you guys are taking into account that noone even talks about such a large important battle at all. As if it never happened.

[@FimbongBass]

Margit use to be a “meh” character for me, it wasnt until I defeated him as “Morgott” that I truly started to love his character, the fact that he was born cursed yet still had pure devotion and loyalty to the golden order despite the golden order showing no love for him really made me feel bad for Morgott, his curse is finally lifted during his final hours which shows that his loyalty finally paid off, but the fact that the dying morgott doesnt even acknowledge that his curse was lifted and instead continues to warn the tarnished about entering the erdtree shows his devotion was pure and he had no other secret intentions, its like a child that still protects his father despite his father abusing and hating him, I just feel bad for him and wish he could have been born in a better life

[@williamhanna9718]

What sucks is that it’s implied Godfrey really did love him when we find him cradling Morgott’s body toward the end of the game. Someone theorized that maybe Godfrey never had a day in what happened to Morgott and Mogh, and maybe if he could he would have taken them with him when he was exiled as the first Tarnished

[@mockomon6353]

@@williamhanna9718 guess Godfrey would’ve took the kids too

[@liquidrufus]

Graceless tarnished....

[@FimbongBass]

@@williamhanna9718 Good lord, that just adds to the tragedy and makes the whole situation even more sad :( I remember Godfrey holding Morgott but my dumb brain never thought of the lore behind it. Sad to know that the tragedy of the Twins doesn't end with their deaths, if only someone out there was willing to show them some love, things maybe could have been different for their fates

[@placeholdername3818]

@@williamhanna9718 Honestly Godfrey never seemed to have any say at all in anything. He was a tool that shared a bed with Merika that she discarded quickly.

[@zuurek6907]

I was just going to mention that there are paintings throughout the game depicting radahn as a normal human man. I've always assumed he grew bigger either from gaining power or because of his great rune

[@kobragaming9420]

I think it’s implied he’s part giant and adopted his size from Radagon since he also adopted his red hair from Radagon and red hair is an indication of giant genes. Rykard was also quite large before he was consumed by the serpent and Malenia looks quite tall at least for a woman

[@zuurek6907]

@@kobragaming9420 not to mention that rykard created the magma sorceries and radahns troops all use flames, which are both another direct tie to the fire giants

[@IAMSN]

@@zuurek6907 I’m not gonna lie? I would’ve never thought of linking the two(via Praetor being a giant as well to further cement Radagon is part giant) . You barely see anyone use fire/fucking magma spells besides him and his cult…good shit

[@joefollo4891]

@@kobragaming9420 Radagon was cursed to have red hair, he is not related to giants at all. It’s one of the few things we know about him

[@zuurek6907]

@@joefollo4891 obviously radagon split off from Marika so he isn't blood related, however I don't think she created radagon until AFTER the fire giants were defeated, and most likely created radagon in their image. I can't see any reason why almost every fire giant item mentions radagon by name when the only thing they share is red hair

[@TiagoLageira]

I saw Margit at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

[@anyone187]

Why did you write this?

[@ashuranero5721]

Why did you write this?

[@madmorgo6233]

😶🤭🤬🤯😆😂🤣🤣🤣

[@jeremytitus9519]

Why did you write this?

[@rizon98]

This copypasta always make laugh somehow. It kinda would make sense with Margit's personality though lol

[@joaofaria7404]

Remembering that Morgott was holding back his curse Omen powers all this time. He didn't pulled his "purple cane sword" until he fought us for example.

[@xryeau_1760]

The edge on the slide is uncharacteristically sharp however, maybe suggesting that the battle had escalated to the point where Margit could no longer hide his true identity, and they walked away after realizing they'd eventually destroy everything around them in a conflict of that scale

[@ryo9630]

Imo the timeline of the Shattering probably goes like this: 1. First Defense of Leyndell, Godrick and Godefroy siege the Capital. "Sovereign Alliance rots from within" like you said, it likely refers to the Demigods with thrones who would've probably attended a meeting to assess the Shattering of the Elden Ring and the disappearance of Marika. And since its a sovereign alliance they might've argued over who would rule Leyndell and become Elden Lord. And so all of them left the capital while each taking a shard of the Elden Ring, "Soon, Marika's offspring, demigods all, claimed the shards of the Elden Ring". Since everyone left and no one else took the throne, Morgott took it upon himself to become the ruler of Leyndell and either made up this fake title of "Grace-Given" to gain the support of the citizens of the Capital or he earned the Erdtree's grace by protecting it. "Traces yet remain of bloody conspiracy" I think this refers to the Night of the Black Knives plot. As Alecto and Tiche flee the capital. Now as to why I think this is Godrick's siege. In the Story Trailer we see Godrick's soldiers and slave trolls besieging Leyndell's walls. We know these are his men because they use his insignias and tabards (Green and Orange colors with the symbols of the Beast Regent Serosh and the Erdtree). But Godefroy ended up being captured by Dragon Knight Kristoff and was imprisoned in the Golden Lineage Evergaol. And Godrick fled the Capital by hiding himself amongst the Womenfolk with the use of Mimic's Veil. We know this is specifically the First Defense because Kristoff's ashes mention him capturing Godefroy during this event. 2. Second Defense of Leyndell, Radahn and his redmanes march towards Leyndell. I believe this is why Kenneth says "Godrick hid from Radahn in Stormveil" because Godrick saw Radahn's armies as they were passing through Stormhill into Liurnia on their way to Leyndell. I also agree that Morgott did repel the redmanes out of the capital but it doesn't necessarily mean Morgott beat Radahn during that 1v1 in the opening cutscene. For all we know maybe Radahn made a tactical retreat when he saw his men were losing even if he himself could still go on. And out of respect for his soldiers he instead ignores his foolish ambitions and withdraw from the assault. 3. Assault on Volcano Manor, Rykard commits blasphemy and the Knights of the Erdtree invade Mt. Gelmir. It was the stage of the most appalling battle in the entirety of the Shattering. This would probably be in the middle of the events because we know the First Defense happend at the beginning and the Battle of Aeonia occurred at the end of the Shattering. 4. Malenia's Southward March. "The Blade of Miquella and her Cleanrot Knights, Grant her wings never to be clipped." 5. Godrick for some reason insults Malenia while she was going through Limgrave on her way to Caelid. "Godrick the Golden, humiliated, Having tasted defeat by the Blade of Miquella, Now on his knees, begging for mercy." 6. The Battle of Aeonia. "The Conqueror of the Stars, General Radahn. And the Blade of Miquella, Malenia the Severed. These two were the mightiest to remain, and locked horns in combat. But there would be no victor."

[@sterlingg.759]

Don't we only see the remains of Godefroy's siege on Leyndell? I'd think we would see more Radahn/Redmane type things in the rubble if Radahn's assault was the second.

[@tabicious53]

I see what you did there at the end of your second point

[@ShadeStormXD]

second siege of leyndell isnt from the redmanes. the banners flying next to the sword monument talking about the second defense depict a red banner with a birdlike appearance that ive yet to find a match in another ingame set. But it is most definitely was not the redmane sworded lion emblem. Could be the preserpent Gelmir banner but im unsure. Only certain that the second defense was not from redmane, and theres no evidence to support it beyond that one piece of art that doesnt even accurately potray radahns iconic armor

[@blackouthorus1519]

We also have the clean rot knight that carried melania back too the halig before radahn probably woke up or gain enough sense togo after them

[@averyyoung6962]

Your missing something, Mohg palace is directly under caelid. Malenia did the Southward march in order to rescue Miquella. Everyone always forgets this... Both the twins had no want for the throne she was trying to save her brother.

[@Sam-lo8yj]

It’s nice to know that as spurned as Morgott was, Godfrey loved him all the same. I thought that was the most emotional moment of the game.

[@vugetunks]

Morgott Loux , Warrior

[@SorowFame]

@@vugetunks it’s a bit weird technically knowing the last name of a character like Morgott

[@i-eat-moss]

loved him all the same yet let him and mohg be intensively locked up their whole childhood in the sewers

[@TrueHylianKnight]

@@i-eat-moss I mean, when your wife is quite literally the Goddess of your world, there's not much room to say no

[@sunkist1309]

@@i-eat-moss #godfreydidnothingwrong

[@TwiggyShei]

I always saw it as "Radahn and his Redmanes attacked Leyndell. Margit and the Leyndell forces repelled the attack." Therefore it's fact that "Margit repelled Radahn". Not that he beat Radahn in some sort of duel, but that he and his armies successfully defended the city. So in the hypothetical newspaper headlines, the news that "The Fell Omen defeated General Radahn" would still technically be accurate.

[@SmoughTown]

Agreed

[@TwiggyShei]

@@kushjindal2939 certainly Radahn retreated, but a commander retreats for a number of reasons beyond his own wellbeing. We know that the two men clashed alongside their armies. We know that Radahn retreated, but it was not an individual duel. Both Margit and Radahn were backed up by their armies, and Leyndell had the distinct tactical advantage of defending a city high-walled city against a single enemy host without notable reinforcements. Radahn could have defeated Margit but retreated anyways due to the heavy losses his own troops suffered. At a certain point it just isn't worth trying to take a city when you recognize you haven't got the troops to hold it. The battle ended in Margit's favor but there are too many factors at play to then definitively state that Margit fought Radahn 1v1 and beat him. Margit could have ambushed Radahn by jumping down on him from Leyndell like he does in his boss intro. He could have engaged Radahn while backed up by his soldiers or war machines. We see plenty of trebuchets and catapults near Leyndell's gates. The point is that we only have a single stylized image along with a result. Imagine you're solving an equation where x+y=5. Yes, x could be 3 and y could be 2, but it could also be the opposite. Or maybe x is 4 and y is 1. There isn't enough context to draw solid conclusions. Same situation.

[@wakamoon1910]

@@TwiggyShei also radahn could have killed margit and then just never got to reach margott, who then at a later point made another margit since its shown already you fight him again even after killing the one at stormveil.

[@sircinabun5478]

The main issue we have is there is no context or information backing up their fight other than that 1 picture which we know is an artist's interpretation. We don't know the outcome where or why they fought. The vague sword memorial description only tells us the alliance fell apart stating "traces yet remain of bloody conspiracy" I'll get back to this later. Morgott is only mentioned in the 2nd defense and all other sword memorials show some form of "leftovers" after the event. For example the giant dragon corpse in the capital, Leyndell troops in Gelmir when they failed their attack, Stormveil's old emblem on the flags are still there in the capital outskirts battlegrounds, a cleanrot knight can be fought in Liurnia when Malenia passed by. We don't see anything Redmane related in Altus Plateau further pushing this idea away. An interesting thing to note is Tiche's spirit ashes as it reads "Tiche was one of the assassins who, on the night of the plot, imbued her black knife with the Rune of Death and slew Godwyn the Golden. She was the daughter of the Black Knife Ringleader, Alecto, and was killed protecting her mother during their flight from the royal capital." This tells us the Black Knifes were caught and had to retreat, and we can find a Black Knife assassin right outside the capital in the same area as the sword memorial further supporting the idea that the memorial and the first defense was based around the Black Knifes and Godwyn. The Demigods most likely suspected each other for the event and the alliance was disbanded and then the drawing happened since the artist could have imagined only Radahn being able to slay Godwyn who had the feat of fighting dragons and the veiled monarch (Morgott) causing a retreat. While playing the game we later learn that Ranni caused the events, she modeled her doll after the mentor and named herself Renna to hide her true status. Rykard > Morgott. Also I genuinely don't think the two actually fought due to a lack of evidence.

[@ShadeStormXD]

@@sircinabun5478 based on the damage on the road and lack thereof in gelmir its unlikely leyndell/morgott made it to the castle itself. And 100% what youre saying on the lack of redmane iconography or evidence of amy presence in Altus. The banners in the ruined battlefield right next to the second defense memorial show a golden bird on a red background which is much more promising lore ideas then so many people just going, radahn sieged leyndell without any evidence.

[@ajki9833]

I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with Margit being capable of beating Radahn. Margit defended Leyndell against anybody seeking the Elden Ring for a really long time, and Radahn was obviously part of that group. As far as I know, Radahn made a play for the Ring before he was powerful enough to beat Margit, then retreated to gain more power and try again, but was nuked by Ms. Nudist Ginger before he could assault Leyndell again. Am I missing anything on that timeline? Edit: after watching the video I feel I should elaborate and say that my definition of Margit “beating” Radahn is just to repel him and his forces from the Capital, since I assume that’s his ultimate goal.

[@A2TheGame]

youll more than likely fight Radahn as one of your great runes before you fight morgott, so it makes sense if you take the order bosses are meant to be beat as reflection of their strength

[@SmoughTown]

My definition is also ‘he drove radahn’s forces away’

[@Dastardly1]

people have a problem because for some reason there is a literal fandom solely around Radahn because he's a meme character. They are genuinely fanboys who will wave away anything indicating he's not omnipotent and invincible.

[@ashenhunter1936]

@@Dastardly1 General Radahn is known for many things strongest demigod, loving son, admirer of the first Elden lord, learned gravity magic that can arrest stars in their path etc but ‘meme’ no my friend

[@OtepRalloma]

@@ashenhunter1936 he is very memed and flanderized by fanboys. And I'm saying this as someone who likes both Radahn and Malenia.

[@FreddyMontana69]

Concerning Radahn's size, one can see his seat at Leyndell was human-size, indicating he was once of human proportions. And you can't say these were just symbolic or something because Ranni's seat was smaller to accomodate her.

[@the-man-who-bites-his-tongue]

gravity magic like with his small horse. bam.

[@nguyenp.nguyen7896]

The demigods are all bigger than humans

[@DarkDeathMarine]

Ranni's actual body would have been Numen sized(Radagon and Marika, Black Knife assassin) as well considering the corpse we can find, so it's probably just a symbolic oversight of sorts. Especially since I kind of doubt that any of them would have had seats made for them after the shattering happened, regardless of if there was a peaceful period, the idea of Ranni being welcomed in the capital or even wanting to go there after shedding her flesh and by proxy getting Godwyn killed/generally ruining the established order of things just seems incredibly unlikely. It is kind of interesting to note that Rykard and Radahn were probably of similar sizes though. For example the sword he has always had, confirmed by the painting, is massive, as well as what I only assume are his original limbs sticking out of Eiglay. Makes sense since they're brothers.

[@legorovers9838]

@@nguyenp.nguyen7896ranni and melania?

[@d4.v1nc1]

The pre battle cinematic tells us that (post malenia) Radahn was cursed to wander and consume his own men. And at the end of our own battle theres is one character who we see perform this very action, Alexander Ironfist, consuming felled soldiers. And as we follow his and Jar Bairn questline we learn both of them want to become the greatest warrior ie: a champion. This ties to Godrick's grafting practice aswell as he feels himself to not be enough for a descendant of marika, thus consuming or "grafting" the very best warrior onto himself. Not a lore enthusiast but kinda made sense to me Might be wrong tho

[@GrimpaGrim]

I feel like Radahn is a fan favorite and definitely tends to get the benefit of the doubt with a lot of lore. If you switch out Radahn for Godrick in that picture I think the large majority of people would be of the belief that it’s depicting Margit beating Godrick 1 on 1. The painting doesn’t depict Margit and Radahn in a stalemate, it shows Margit in a dominant position. It also doesn’t show Margit repelling a bunch of Radahn’s men forcing a tactical retreat. I just feel like if they wanted to show that Margit repelled them but maybe didn’t beat Radahn 1v1 they wouldn’t have chosen a picture of Margit standing over Radahn driving his stick into Radahn’s chest.

[@laundrybasketgamers]

Honestly, I agree. People love radahn too much.

[@LordNexusTheFir]

If the stick was his sword or his various holy light arsenal of weapons sure u could say he maybe was winning but instead it comes off more as Morgott trying to intimidate or assassinate (with a stick) & Radahn turned around & was able to grab his weapon. Too many people around if it was a fight or duel.

[@exzyyd392]

@@LordNexusTheFir The stick IS the sword

[@RauschenPauli]

i mean he won a war against radahn. what better way to show it then this? again this is a painting WITHIN the lands between and while it shows "margit" in the dominat position. radahn also holds him back without his weapons. without his horse. only with his bear hands. and if we take into acount the facts of this war. margit was definding the one fortress that was only pierced once and that by a giant dragon assault. he had an insane advantage in this war so ofc he wins. and lets be real here. you want to tell me that Margit NOT Morgott. is able to beat radahn and also show that he could beat and/or push melenia in 1 on 1 combat?

[@markerwrld6217]

Well godrick is also a weaker Demi god he’s basically a normal guy who grafted a lot Radahn is this huge Demi god with big as weapons and gravity magic

[@ponytail336]

There's also the fact that FromSoftware quite consistently resizes characters and doesn't keep a "canon" size for characters (ie, Isshin being smaller in cutscenes). In the first place when we fight Radahn he might be "smaller" than he actually is but the sheer epic scope of him is to show the raw *impression* of his size and power. He is, after all, the strongest of the Demigods. There's also the fact that Radahn could have swelled in size in between the fight with Morgott and us either naturally or the corruption of Scarlet Rot as some others have commented

[@blacktigerpaw1]

He was already huge before the fight with Malenia.

[@ponytail336]

@@blacktigerpaw1 Actually learned this recently as well! Thank you for pointing that out

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@ponytail336 I think he was taller than average but not the monster we saw in his fight scene, but definitely large enough that Leonard couldn't carry him anymore. Edit: his portrait in the Volcano manor shows him with ordinary skin and a rather normal size.

[@fionn_mac_ribs]

On the same note, I’d like to point out that Gwyndolin is human sized when you face him in Dark Souls I, but when you discover him being devoured by Aldrich in Dark Souls III, he is considerably bigger.

[@ProjectMathesar]

I really hope the DLC sends us back in time to some of the biggest battles of The Shattering. Let's fight Rykard pre-snek, interfere with the Radahn-Malenia battle, fight Godwyn, etc

[@SmoughTown]

Omg yes!

[@OmnipotentGoggles]

I dont want to fight Godwyn, he's been through enough :(

[@Yaboii2006]

Or maybe we get to choose who we fight for?

[@rushpatriot2866]

@@Yaboii2006 yeah be like a soldier for one of the demo gods defend your land and attack enemy territory. Witness all the major battles. So cool

[@TJVBernal]

ah yes time F#@kery as if the thing with Sif wasn't painful enough... wtf not right? Let's goooo imagine everyon demi god going "Not you..." when you finally fight them but with differing meanings

[@Corvo537]

Lore suggestion: The commanders Niall and Neill and the banished knights.

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

Yes please, I love the theory that they are connected to the Stormking and were defeated by Godfrey.

[@erikrubino6605]

Don’t we have the names of them in ashes?

[@erikrubino6605]

@@darkhobo I did not thanks for letting me know :)

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensen4737]

@@joaoluizkfsantos8392 I think it’s the other way around it would make more sense if they were Godfrey’s army hence why they are banished

[@Slohcin31820]

I personally saw the size difference of the painting for Margit vs Radahn as that particular artist illustrating how these two demigods are equals on the battlefield

[@the-man-who-bites-his-tongue]

doesn't work that way.

[@Slohcin31820]

@@the-man-who-bites-his-tongue I'm not sure what you mean but okay

[@jkthegreat5687]

I think u‘re reading into it too much cuz size in Eldenring is no indication for might Radahn probably was just younger in the painting

[@Slohcin31820]

@@jkthegreat5687 That is possible. I was only saying how the visuals translated to my understanding. I've always seen size as an indication of power (i.e. David is weak and Goliath is strong) It was just my gut reaction to the imagery. To each their own interpretation 😁

[@Slohcin31820]

@@georgyporgy777 Thanks! I like the saying 😁

[@ringlhach]

Very late to the conversation here, but I think it's worth pointing out that the picture doesn't even have to be literal- it could be representative of the Fell Omen breaking Radahn's siege.

[@biggums5]

I think the point about it being an artistic interpretation is further supported by the depiction of Rykard being devoured by the serpent. We know the serpent to be much larger due to the boss fight, and that he was large before eating rykard due to the item description of the serpent spear stating being made to slay the God devouring serpent from before devouring rykard. Well presented!

[@insertedgynamehere___969]

*_"TOGETHAAA"_*

[@jakobrenner2230]

@@insertedgynamehere___969 *WE WILL DEVOUAH*

[@TechNinjaSigma]

It's worth noting that their are indeed artists present throughout the Lands Between, as we encounter their spirits by finding their paintings, so the theme is most certainly there

[@claytonmccandless593]

Thank you for clarifying that Radahn is gripping the staff; for a while I thought Margit was going to grow extra arms.

[@SmoughTown]

😂same, it took a long time staring at it to work it out

[@dough254]

The way those bottom set of arms are bending doesn't look like they radahns Cause the elbows. Lol i didn't get a good look at him during our fight to see if he had sum weird arms.

[@Amari-hu4wh]

@@dough254 if u look at the arms it has radhans greaves. 😭 he says it in the video

[@TheEveryDayC]

It seems obvious to me that Morgott won in the field of battle against Radahn. That doesn't make him a better warrior, just that his army and his entire focus was being able to defend a massive, extremely walled off city, with the benefits of having those massive perfumer arrows land on them, with few chokepoints as available means of getting into Leyndell. Morgott was successful in making sure that Leyndell was never fully infiltrated, but that doesn't mean that he's a better duelist than any other demigod, just good enough to defend Leyndell with his army and repel all other forces.

[@sadsworth4605]

My brother in christ he's the best fighter out of the Demi gods just look at him move Radhan was strength based by his Great rune but he isn't skill based fighter

[@TheEveryDayC]

@@sadsworth4605 I don't agree, I think Radahn would win in a duel, I think he would be a better fighter, but not likely the best tactician.

[@agentace1476]

@@sadsworth4605 just how someone moves doesn’t show how strong they are

[@coyzor]

Well its a war in the first place so why are we factoring in duels?

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@TheEveryDayC If he earned the undying loyalty of his men I'd say he was a good tactician. It's just that no one expected Morgott to be there because he's the Veiled Monarch.

[@jonkorpi]

Also Rahdan wasn't always huge. It says as he grew in size he learned gravity magic. Showing that he was not always so big.

[@shalidor8102]

Just to clarify: Radahn grew in size as he aged, he learned gravity magic to compensate for his increasing body mass while riding Leonard. While occurring concurrently, learning gravity magic was not the reason for his size increase.

[@gruma6581]

The proof of radahn being normal before is that there's a painting of him in the volcano manor, at the drawing room.

[@SorowFame]

I’d say his immense size is because of his Scarlet Rot infestation, being bloated by it or something, but the story trailer messes that up by showing him huge while fighting Malenia

[@gruma6581]

@@SorowFame he was already humongous on malenia

[@SorowFame]

@@gruma6581 that’s why I mentioned the story trailer and how it messes that theory up. Try reading

[@shakysheev]

Radahn wasn’t always huge, he grew more and more in size over time

[@blacktigerpaw1]

He was still bigger than average as Leonard couldn't carry him in his youth.

[@shakysheev]

@@blacktigerpaw1 right, but Morgott is also bigger than average along with the rest of the demi-gods

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@shakysheev Sure, as an Omen Twin he's large, but Radahn was known to be larger than normal men even when he was young. So if that's actually him being toppled by Morgott, it's likely drawn that way to emphasize their equality in battle. Then again we can't see Radahn's legs, and from the torso up he looks small.

[@shakysheev]

@@blacktigerpaw1 fair point there, i can agree with that

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@shakysheev Scratch that, you can see Radahn's legs in the painting. They're long, so at that point he was near the size of Morgott. Artistic representation and all.

[@kagachi3779]

The emphasis on the slide being an artistic representation not to be taken too seriously, in a game like souls where everything matters, I think is brilliant. It challenges the approach we've all come to take with these games' lore. It reminds us that everything we're presented is there for us to form our own interpretations, not to give concrete facts

[@FoxBoyWithBushyTailAndEars]

I believe the size was the "artist" way of saying. "In that moment he wasn't a giant, but small and weak to morgot" as in he seemed just like another person in the battlefield morgot cut down.

[@strawhatshinigami9190]

I took the picture for what it was ,Morgott besting Radhan in the moment .

[@TheXLStrike]

Radahn used to be smaller when he was younger, this probably is back when he was still growing, and not of giant size yet

[@TheCrewExpendable]

Yeah same with Mohg taking Miquella (painting shows him carrying Miquella’s “normal” child form, but when we get to Mohg in-game Miquella is in a large cocoon and the body inside is also rather large) and the serpent eating Ryanair’s. I do think the serpent has grown larger as it has eaten more, but the image shows the severed head being eaten while the rest of Rykard’s item descriptions make it sound like he was swallowed whole. Also even the painting of Malenia vs Radahn seems to exaggerate Radahn’s size somewhat. Overall the painting shows Malenia as the bright, wounded but unbroken, brave underdog hero versus a large, darkened, beast of a man. Which is definitely not quite how it went down.

[@DisgruntledPeasant]

It's a great theme they have used since ds1, the games frequently give you information from unreliable sources that make you question the validity of what you are being lead to believe. How much of our understanding of the lore is based on information written by people with an agenda? The war monuments were written by victors afterall.

[@HitTheR0ad]

Painting can be artistic freedom, already giving indications of the importance of Margit, the first little boss that (after hitting you and disappearing), would have in the story. You know about the Great General Radahn, imposing in his size, respected by the people around him and feared for his power... now being dwarfed and put to the ground by Margit/Morgott. From the start implying that Margit is bigger than he looks.

[@adelynn3501]

It's also notsble the in game models aren't exactly Canon sizes either Zullie the witch even made a video on this with the sekiro models

[@FoxBoyWithBushyTailAndEars]

I would like to add. When I took art classes, I learned artists like to alter aspects to get messages across. I wonder if radahn was painted small to say in that moment. He was just another enemy to morgot/margit because margit was stated in past battles to have been a wave of destruction in battle or something along those lines. Edit: I further like to add after reading a few comments. The spear that defeated the dragon states. It was the only time leyndells walls were ever breached. This mean radahn must have lost. Otherwise there walls would have fell twice.

[@SmoughTown]

I’ve seen other people saying this in the comments. It’s a great take

[@the-man-who-bites-his-tongue]

nothing you learned in art class applies here.

[@hleeyang3825]

@@the-man-who-bites-his-tongue They literally have paintings from artists in the game.

[@breakingbenjaminguy]

@@the-man-who-bites-his-tongue Lol you just gotta be mean, don’t ya

[@thesaviorofsouls5210]

Although i very much like that idea, im still confused as to how theres a painting of him at all. Seeing as he was hidden and banished to the underground.

[@TechNinjaSigma]

Morgott as a character continues to impress me; my favorite

[@SmoughTown]

He is really starting to become one of mine as well

[@EclipsaEldrich]

Radahn wasn't always a giant, there's a line saying he learnt gravity magic to keep riding his horse. KEEP, not start. He was normal and then became big

[@blumiu2426]

Because he was growing up, like any person. You are assuming he didn't have his horse from a young age and grew up with him, to which it implies.

[@kimjuanjun7124]

I’m pretty sure that’s a side effect of hybrids since Godfrey was a tarnish who became the first elden lord while marika a literal god.

[@blumiu2426]

@@kimjuanjun7124 But wasn't Marika made a goddess because chosen by the an outer god? She was given grace just as the dragon god was, and it can be lost. So in that world, godhood isn't omnipotent, but very much "godlike" compared to humans. Japanese games and most fantasy focuses on these types because they are flawed and can be killed, rather than true gods like that outer gods are. They are beyond reach and no matter what, the "gods" of the world still are subject to their whim.

[@NaK-R]

- Radahn's Great Rune says that he wanted to learn gravitational magic so he could still ride his horse. - Starcourge Talisman (The one that increases Strength tho) says that he was already called "Starcourge" when he was younger. - Idk which magic, but it states that Radahn had already Mastered his magic before the Shattering. So Radahn was already big when Morgott beated him.

[@chainsmoker7390]

So what did Morgott Shrink? xD

[@xryeau_1760]

Learning something like magic is probably typically a longterm dedication, so it makes sense to me that Radahn would've committed to and became adept at learning gravity magic well before he swelled in size by the time he fought Malenia with the foresight of knowing he was related to the giants

[@movershaker1861]

the headcanon people have about Radahn is bizarre to me. yes, he’s described as “once being the strongest of the demigods”, but he’s never described as undefeated the way Malenia is. there’s also the possibility that the demigods, over the course of the shattering, amassed and lost power individually as the war went on. Radahn is surely a fearsome foe, but the way people jump through hoops to make him out to be some kind of hero is odd, because we never get any lore in-game to support this characterization.

[@norbertcsaszar4746]

He have a cute horse and he learned gravity magic so he can ride said cute horse. Thats it,before people made the connection most people dont gave a shit about Radahn. Of course he is big and cool and strong for sure (holding stars back) but he is just as greedy for power as all the demigods. But there is this wholesome story about his horse,people love animals so he is a hero all of a sudden. IMO Malenia is the same,she and Miquella are helping eachother out,two of them against the world basically,and just as a sad story as Radahn's.

[@cam_i_corn2994]

@@norbertcsaszar4746 the lore of all the Demi gods is so good, it’s very annoying when people uncritically say radahn is the main character because he has a cute horse and is holding back the stars. The thing that is so interesting about the game is that all of the Demi gods/ outer gods have their own ambitions that intertwine and change the lands between for their views.

[@warlordofthewest8010]

Malenia is definitely undefeated though I'd argue her fight with Radahn ended in a tie. Once she blooms a third time, I'd argue she truly became the strongest...assuming whatever happened to Miquella didn't make him insanely OP.

[@scottbecker4367]

@@warlordofthewest8010 I'd say she lost simply because she had to be carried away from the battle, or Radahn likely would have finished her off. I agree that once she becomes the goddess of rot that she's stronger than prime Radahn, though. I would be interested to know how strong Miquella is too. I'm going to bet he's probably the strongest of all of them (most likely going to be a final boss for dlc). I'd also like to know more about Ranni. She doesn't really fight much outside of her encounter with Godwyn, and we don't even know if they actually fought. However, she's an Empyrean, a distinction only given to Marika, Miquella, and Malenia as those who can become gods.

[@agentace1476]

@@scottbecker4367 don’t forget miquella he’s also one

[@rcwlson1]

General Radahn was normal human size once. Remember it took him eons to get that big. But he was a warrior through his adolescence. Morgott could have beaten him while he was young. The conflict between the two seems completely plausible. They are of two separate demigod lineages. Their paths were virtually destined to conflict. Keep in mind Margott was vastly older and experienced than young Radahn. Why does Morgott call Radahn a traitor? He was of Carian lineage.

[@jordangray6900]

This would make sense except Morgott was imprisoned in the sewers until the shattering so they wouldn’t have clashed in a war before the shattering unfortunately

[@sterlingg.759]

All the demigods are called traitors as they warred for power as soon as the Elden Ring was shattered.

[@LordNexusTheFir]

Radahn couldve been walking past a sewer & Morgott leaped out & just tackled him. May have been a coincidence & nothing more.

[@Sunny-jk3pq]

Radahn being my favorite character, him having lost or being almost beat by morgott doesnt take away from his character. Hes not supposed to be invinsible, if it was Malenia in the slide then I would have taken issue since she says she has never lost which I doubt already.

[@SorowFame]

I like to imagine that Malenia has lost before but always comes up with some excuse about how, actually, that was either a victory for her or a tie.

[@wakamoon1910]

I mean if margott/margit repelling radahn's assault and him having to retreat counts as a loss, then malenia has a loss too in retreating from her clash with him. they probably only count a loss back then if the person dies or is down on the ground, malenia would have been seen as taking a loss if she hadn't teleported out of there.

[@indrickboreale5463]

Im not saying Malenia isn’t undefeated, Its just you dont get dragged away unconscious by your last surviving knights from fights that you win.

[@biggiecheese2004]

@@indrickboreale5463 no she 100% lost the radahn fight. radahn would have killed her in his frenzied state and cannibalized her for sure, Finlay is the only winner lmao

[@sterlingg.759]

@@biggiecheese2004 how did Finlay win? She was willingly afflicted by rot and had to drag her demigod, who lost her sense of self and control of the rot, back to the Haligtree where she remained sleeping until Finlay eventually dies. The only winner is the rot, it was able to rot both demigods to the core in the end and we put them down.

[@dagdamor1]

What you have to consider is that if a fight or battle had actually gotten to that point for Radahn, his beloved steed Leonard would have already been killed. I doubt Radahn would have allowed that to happen.

[@hvyarms4496]

Your mount despawns while in a castle xD

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

I agree with your interpretation. Radahn probably attacked Leyndell and Morgott helped repel him. If there was a 1x1 battle during that isn't all that important. It's also nice to see Radahn doing something else during the shattering. For the demigod that would seem the most enthusiastic about wars and combat, the rest of the lore makes it look like Radahn was only chilling at Caelid until Malenia showed up. To comment on the paintings, it doesn't feel to me like they were made by a normal painter. They depict Radagon's attempt to restore the elden ring using the hammer, something that (at least I assume) isn't common knowledge at all. It seems like they know more than a normal painter just depicting historical events they heard about.

[@SorowFame]

Maybe the painter is the overexcited narrator guy? I don’t think we ever see him in-game unless he’s Goldmask

[@user-vh7ks8px3s]

@@SorowFame narrator guy is definitely boggart, but older, and all he does is bust nuts while narrating and drawing radahn as a dwarf

[@Skibbutz]

@@SorowFame it probably isn't goldmask considering hes a mute

[@SorowFame]

@@Skibbutz that’s my point, we don’t know what he sounds like so he could be the narrator

[@XlaintheUndead]

@@SorowFame I realize this discussion is months old but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. I always assumed that the narrator was the corpse you encounter in the room you first appear in when you create a character or start a new journey, the one with the message in front of them.

[@rodrigomanzo777]

Notice that the chairs at Erdtree's foot are of normal size, which seems to indicste that demigods can alter their size

[@ac98521]

or probably, Radahn was smaller when he sat on that chair before

[@jcarma.]

I like to think that it's a painting by an artist (in game). The painting tells a story that Morgott and the armies of Leyndell defended the city and the Erdtree against General Radahn and his armies siege. It wouldn't be nearly as powerful of an image if the painting depicted both Morgott and Radahn commanding from the rear of their respective armies.

[@Stainless1369]

This is my take too. It's a symbolic painting, not a literal one.

[@handleonafridge6828]

I just don’t get why *this* painting would be symbolic while all the others blatantly show events. There’s nothing actually that cryptic in any of the other paintings, mohg did steal miquella, Radahn and Malenia fought, Queen Marika was imprisoned, Rykard was eaten by a snake. Why would this one be symbolic when all the others are literal. Also Radahn 100% would lead his army from the front, and I believe Morgott would go out to fight him because he’s the only one that has a chance against Radahn.

[@MrEvan312]

I could imagine it having been by an artist who was a soldier there and, in all the chaos, happened to catch a glimpse of this moment in the fight before their view was obscured.

[@IAMSN]

Yes! Been dying for another lore upload!

[@joydejesus8982]

Ragahn was small at one point in the lord it says “he got so big he had to learn gravitational magic to be able to ride his horse” I think that’s crucial to the lore and making sense of the painting

[@vrolijk9865]

This being a young Radahn would absolutely make no sense what so ever timeline wise. Radahn is the child of Radagon and Renalla. After this Radagon married Merika and had twins. This all took place before the shattering. So this being a young Radahn would be literally impossible, unless this battle would have taken place before the shattering, which, i think we can all agree, is very unlikely

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

Radahn is considered the strongest demi-god. He isn't considered the undefeated. Margot may have defeated him but we see Radahn's honor can be exploited.

[@philippetalbot7227]

Agreed. A better fighter can lose to a lesser one. One lucky move or one mistake can make the difference. When I trained in martial arts, I was a very average fighter. One of my friend was wwwaaaayyy better than me but I bested him during a competition, he just did a bad move. Nonetheless, he wooped my arse 4 times out of 5.

[@xXAmightzXx]

Indeed I was also thinking this no one has ever said he was undefeated just the strongest and I felt like if he was undefeated there is a good chance it would be mentioned. So I think there is a good chance margit beat him.

[@urvanrry2348]

Radahn is considered the strongest demi-god, but nobody except marika and the like know about morgott and mohg, so him being considered the strongest shouldn’t affect it

[@FoxBoyWithBushyTailAndEars]

@@philippetalbot7227 Just a joke but when I read your first sentence I just thought of bleed/frost mimic bloodhound blade strategy used against malenia. I agree on your point though.

[@arcanefire7511]

And Margit isnt a demigod as far as almost everyone is concerned.

[@n8doggy733]

Excellent vid, agree with your take on the situation. Also learned more about the defense of the Capital post shattering, thanks!

[@deimosvalentine]

Another example of the artists depiction of some of these events being represented with some inaccuracies is the depiction of Mohg stealing Miquella. In the painted depiction of Mohg and Miquella in the opening scene, Mohg is carrying Miquella in one arm, and Miquella is clearly in his most infantile form. Though when we see Miquella in Mohgwyn Palace he is in a cocoon and has since grown a tremendous amount. The only way Miquella was able to have grown was when he was inside the Haligtree, and would have been impossible for him to grow after Mohg had taken him.

[@danylonazarov]

i always viewed it as Mogh "trying to raise him to full godhood" and using blood magic to try forcefully maкe him grow and transform

[@deimosvalentine]

@@danylonazarov That could also be true. Mohg stealing Miquella before he grows in the Haligtree. And Mohg feeding Miquella blood or whatever to grow him into the Lord of the Formless Mother.

[@Rehvion]

My original interpretation was that the fight happened before Radahn claimed his great rune but it's hard to make it work timeline wise. The position Radahn and Margit have in the slide makes sense after all, Leyndell was defended so in a way Margit/Morgott got that strategic victory, which is different from a 1v1 definitive win, after all Radahn still has his great rune and is still "alive". I still wish they were closer to scale because it definitely cases confusion for a lot of people. Great video, looking forward to the next one!

[@SmoughTown]

Hey man! Really honoured you checked it out! Thanks ☺️

[@MMMM-vq1yr]

Why do you think Radahn and Malenia are fighting in the first place? I'm personally becoming more partial to the idea that Miquella was captured BEFORE Malenia fought Radahn. Malenia went into Caelid with a small army of Miquella's knights, possibly defeating and embarrassing Godrick on their way to Caelid, presumably to get to Mohg's palace. This was seen as an act of aggression by Radahn, or an opportunity. So he ambushed Malenia, killing most of her army and destroying nearly all of her forces. Sometime during the battle, a soldier of Radahn likely shattered the golden needle keeping Malenia's cursed scarlet rot at bay. This created the Aeonia swamp area, and along with the cleanrot knights and rot cult we see now, a perfect fortified area with deadly wild life.

[@battlericky17]

13:05 comprehensive and scholarly approached man. You really kick ass on these.

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you my friend, appreciate the support

[@battlericky17]

@@SmoughTown always 🤝💯

[@hammy9906]

Whatever video this man does, its always a great watch. Keep being great my guy

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you hammy! Such kind words

[@ajbolt7]

Radahn is known as “the mightiest demigod of the Shattering”. He’s not known for being undefeated, it’s never mentioned. It makes complete sense that Radahn was beaten back by Margit.

[@blumiu2426]

Then it would imply that he was defeated in other ways besides a contest of prowess. Being undefeated means just that, not defeated yet, not unbeatable. Titles have meaning an implication to certain facts, but logic would suggest these are not written in stone.

[@ajbolt7]

@@blumiu2426 how does the implication exclude a contest of prowess?

[@blumiu2426]

@@ajbolt7 Because if the is the strongest, it is implying combat prowess, not strategic. Mergit likely beat him this way in staving off the assault and can count as a strategic victory. We see further he had a draw with Milenia, someone undefeated to that point, in a contest of combat prowess. If Radahn had lost in a duel, then he would not have the title as strongest of demigods, because in order for Mergit to defeat a demigod, he would then be considered on that level as well, thus losing that title. We have no idea the conflict that occurred before The Shattering as reputations were built from something at some point. We have no idea what these were other than possibly a war with the dragons? Who else was on their level? You'd think then their reputations were built for grandeur. They didn't have duels among themselves because if Milenia had gained her title from such, she would have beaten Radahn, being both the strongest and undefeated, so they had to have developed from other feats, possibly lesser than The Shattering pitting them against one another.

[@ajbolt7]

@@blumiu2426 Radahn losing in a duel before gaining more great runes in no way alters his reputation as mightiest. Besides, undefeated does not pertain only to duels. Malenia’s entire army was known for being undefeated.

[@blumiu2426]

@@ajbolt7 It alters his title, he can't be the mightiest if beaten in single combat. He can be outdone strategically, as strength doesn't denote intelligence. And yes, Milenia's army would be part of that equation as well being undefeated, but it raises the question when did she ever fight and who? She couldn't have assaulted the Capitol because Mergit repellee everyone, unless that doesn't count as a defeat for her or Radahn. We only know she fought against Godrick the Golden and Radahn of significance.

[@Ammuze11]

If Radahn was assaulting the capital and Morgott was defending it and they both met in combat, isn't the fact that Morgott still controls the capital proof that Morgott beat Radahn? I wouldn't imagine there's a situation where Radahn wins, but Morgott still holds the capital.

[@Hexagonaldonut]

To be fair, it's actually more possible than you'd think- win conditions can vary based on context, and "forcing Margit/Morgott back" would certainly qualify as a win condition in a 1v1 fight for Radahn, but at the end of the day if the defenses are too strong for his men to get through, the fate of that particular duel is entirely irrelevant. Win the battle, lose the war.

[@ViVenVel]

@@Hexagonaldonut There's an old British show called Time Commanders where contestants would essentially give orders to people playing Total War, recreating historical battles and seeing if they could succeed the way famous leaders had or even win from the side that lost IRL. One episode was a siege where the contestants technically won by the rules, but only had like, one chariot left out of their entire forces. If it weren't a simulation...

[@TheGhost0312]

Also another thing to take into consideration is that they always refer to Melania as the unbeaten demigod that stealmated radhan so that doesent count as a victory. Yet nobody ever talk about Radahn as undefeated.

[@zacharywimer6708]

Excellent as usual. I appreciate that you source other creators; class act.

[@mcripchip]

Radahn's size diference might be simply an illustration of the vast amount of time between his encounter with Margit and Malenia?

[@fekepukukioa296]

Being that Morgott was Godfrey’s son, I can see where he got his dual persona from. Maybe the staff held back his power like Serosh held back Godfrey’s.

[@xryeau_1760]

He recanted his blood into the sword which became the staff to reject his bloodflame, and is inaccessible for as long as it remains in staff form, so I'm inclined to agree. It's also worth noting that this was a matter of reputation in both cases: The people of Leyndell wouldn't've wanted a barbarian ruling over their city-state, so naturally Hoarah Loux had to become Godfrey so his own people wouldn't overthrow him (but was banished anyway lol) We also know that omens are widely reviled as abominations against the golden order, so it couldn't've been publicly known that Morgott was an omen child of Godfrey. Thus Margit became his alter ego to which he could scapegoat his own nature onto and avoid becoming known as an omen king

[@ragingjr6865]

Always love your videos bud keep ‘em comin

[@punkassbamboo]

I really appreciate that you mentioned that the paintings shouldn't be taken as hard evidence because I've seen so many people treating them as if they're irrefutable photographic proof of certain events and it's a bit frustrating to have to repeatedly point out that they're artistic interpretations of events and not necessarily 100% accurate. Great work as always, ST! 💖

[@Rawp0st]

I think the Great General Radahn fighting the Fell Omen on the field of battle resulting in the Redmane knights being repelled would be a HUGE deal that would have been talked about somewhere by someone. Every major clash has names and or titles of those who partook in it. I would think that General Radahn and his Redmane knights or any of the demigods besieging the capital would get more recognition than just "rebels" We also know the red locks are used as the symbol of a champion and lion imagery for Godfrey the Lord of the Battlefield. Some ambitious hero or champion could put that on and fought to take Leyndell and then be beaten by Margit. Finally: - Radahn would be the only demigod shown twice in the cinematic (not damning but a bit odd) - Margit is crouching his picture and is clearly still taller than everyone else and all the other demigods are sized correctly. - The paintings can't be "ingame" because no one knew that Mogh stole miquella - Morgott calling them "willful traitors" comes from his loyalty to the golden order and Marika's reign. He doesn't think anyone is worthy to become Elden Lord, especially because of the impassable thorns.

[@ShadeStormXD]

ya people "definitively" claiming that radahn attacked the capital based on 1 essentially concept image is pretty weak evidence as all the content and lore regarding the second defense of leyndell doesnt mention redmane or radahn and the battlefields leave no evidence of redmane presence

[@dreadful9690]

I agree with it just being an artistic interpretation of the battle. The winner of battles in history are the ones telling the story. So a picture of Margit fighting a small Radahn just interprets that Radahn was not strong enough to beat Margit and his defense of Lyndell. Don't take everything so literally.

[@setheriasol7214]

The way I interpreted the slide, is that it could be have been a confrontation Radahn had with Morgott at the start of the conflict with the Demi-gods as we know Morgott has a low opinion of the other Demi-gods thus I viewed it as morgott having lept at Radhan after some attempt at a conversation where Radhan could have made his intentions known about keeping a shard and not continuing with the establishment of the golden order thus Morgott zealous as ever leapt at him.

[@papadiogenes4674]

Wow. I never gave that much thought to the beginning cutscene as a painting, but it does make so much sense since you find paintings everywhere.

[@gavcampbell4883]

I believe the image does simply picture a younger Radahn, however that’s from in game information and context. I don’t believe an artist would be able to forget or misconstrue the size difference. I mean it’s one think if he’s maybe a few feet larger, but Radahn TOWERS over the battlefield. So while I think it is Radahn, I don’t think it’s an artist’s depiction that’s inaccurate, I believe he was just smaller when he was younger.

[@user-vh7ks8px3s]

Would be pretty silly for an artist to draw radah as a tiny dickhead when literally all who witnessed radahn would describe him as a gigantic bitch.

[@MeanAndPristine]

“Sovereign alliance” could also be referring to the joining of the great houses or “sovereigns” of the Erdtree and the Moon after the marriage of Rennala and Radagon. Radahn is the son of Rennala, the Moon Witch, while Morgott is the son of Marika, vessel of the Erdtree. If the two houses separated, and Radahn moved against the Erdtree, it would be a point of contention.

[@ghoulcity3981]

Replaying 4:06 to 4:09 over and over. Thanks, I needed this!

[@nebuli55]

One thing that intrigues me are the giant spears stuck in the ground in the battleground area, as far as I have been able to tell there are no contraptions that fire them nor do we see them anywhere else. So my guess is that they were thrown by some other loyalist to the golden order and is possibly linked to the reason the outer segment is flooded, which by my guess will be a dlc legacy dungeon.

[@dadevi]

The picture was meant to introduce us to Morgott, and his importance as a demigod, even though he's estranged from his family members, even in his guise as the Fell Omen. That was FromSoft's dropping hints that seems to go over everyone's heads since everyone is more focused on who was stronger than who. I think that battle ended in a stalemate, like all the other times demigods/Emperyeans fought against each other, because none of them killed each other. As awesome and as powerful as they all claim to be, they are either incapable of landing the killing blow, or they still recognize themselves as members of their sprawling family and won't commit a crime against each other. I believe that they all hope someone will just fix Marika/Radagon so they won't have to continue fighting anymore. I really think they're all just waiting on the second coming of Godfrey to set things right again.

[@SmoughTown]

Agreed

[@kevin-bc2qr]

He did defeat Radahn. Radahn was a kid at the time tho. So there's that

[@madmorgo6233]

Mm that's what I was thinking. Margit doesn't seem a blood-crazed killer, no matter how hideous the Golden Order might find him, and boy oh boy in that bit of artwork I saw (on-screen now! The Shattering. Margit VS Radahn rn) he ain't pretty. But yup, I agree

[@hvyarms4496]

@@madmorgo6233 Margit was faithful to the order while his brother embraced the accursed blood. He hated his omen blood but still fought for the erd tree

[@slaindesmond2574]

really like your points On your point about paintings its like the declaration of independence portrait in America ( it depicted them clean and together when signing it which didn't happen) Because of artistic creativity this was changed as you say for Morgott and Radahn. My personal theory is that the children were having a debate in the Throne room after the destruction of the ring, in which Morgott now free confronted the children as their lost brother and son of Godfrey. Naturally this enraged radahn because of his lyalty to the Golden order (hence dislike of Omens) and his deep-seated respect for Godfrey caused him to insult Morgotts pretensions and this caused an armed conflict. Which broke up before a true battle could commence as the rest of the siblings began fighting for the shards.

[@MrEvan312]

I like to think that this captured a moment where a soldier caught a fleeting glimpse of the fight: maybe a moment of the siege was going well for the Redmanes and Morgott, seeing this, barreled through the ranks straight for Radahn, surrounded by his soldiers (judging by the foot soldier caps), taking him by surprise and tackling him down with sheer speed. By the time Radahn could recover himself and push Morgott off, the "artist" had to look away or their view was obscured. While Radahn is occupied, the assault stalls and the Redmanes take heavy casualties, so Radahn is forced to withdraw while Morgott reteats back into the city, having turned the tide. The thing about Morgott is that he is older, wiser, and very well could have been trained for battle by none other than Godfrey himself, his brother Godwyn who saved the city from the dragons, or even just one of the Crucible knights who themselves were handpicked by Godfrey and would have been really good instructors (and they're probably cool with him being an Omen). Both Radahn and Morgott may have simply been smaller back then: this would be earlier in the Shattering and their Great Runes, if those are to blame for the demigod's sizes, may not have taken true effect yet. They both look about the same size as the sewer omens, which would make sense.

[@deadmanshafter]

I love both of these bosses, I think Radahn wasn't simply beaten. On a battlefield, everyone is fighting each other. I would say it is rare for forces to give their generals space to duel since most combatants are just trying to catch their breath and stay alive. I think Margit saw Radahn and leapt to skewer him if this painting is anything accurate... Its not a duel, its a skirmish and in a skirmish anything can happen, skill and power offer small advantage when everywhere around you is carnage.

[@youtubevoice1050]

Artistic rendition is a very good point. Depending on who ordered the painting, the depiction will show them in a favourable light. Clearly, the siege on Leyndell was not successful. The capital won and Margit the fell omen was considered a champion. He might not even have fought Radahn, yet is depicted in a dominant pose, towering over his opponent. Typical for propaganda. Or Radahn was younger and less powerful, or it was just a favourable snapshot of a surprise attack. Or ... it's not Radahn, at all, ... but his brother Rykard (also red-haired). We do know, that the soldiers of Leyndell are still fighting the forces of Rykard. That seems to be the other rivalry going on besides Radahn Vs Malenia. Here's the thing: the depiction is far from perfect. Not only sizes and proportions are wrong, also the big tusks on Radahn's lion helmet are missing. What we are looking at might be an early artwork (irl) from when design and story weren't finalized yet.

[@TheWetToaster]

I came here expecting a wild theory, and left with a much better picture of Morgott’s involvement in the shattering. That’s some good shit man.

[@NicolaeCarpathia420]

Another thing worth considering about the fact that the intro cinematic was a set of still artwork with VOs and Ken Burns pan, rather than the high quality CG productions that we saw from the Story Trailer and the intro of all the other Souls games is: the script of Elden Ring was very much up-in-the-air until fairly recently before release. CG has a big time budget, and FROM knew that a CG trailer would not be ready. We know this because in an earlier draft, "Hoarah Loux" *was* "The Goldmask".

[@RecluseBootsy]

The scale argument is strange. Margit has been shown to be 20 feet tall and once beaten shrinks to 8 feet, fitting in Godfrey's palms. Why wouldn't Radahn be able to do the same? Miquella was also shown to fit in Mohg's arms but when we see him in game, his hand jutting out of the blood coccoon is massive compared to the player.

[@strawhatshinigami9190]

The game literally says Radhan grew in size as he got older ,Miquella's arm size is the results of him growing the Helig Tree before Mogh kidnapped him . None of this is a artistic touch ,it's just different time periods .

[@augustgurtisen]

@@strawhatshinigami9190 Mogh cut bebe Miquella out of the haligtree, took him to the Moghwyn dynasty palace (pictured), then tried to share his bloody bedchamber (the coconut with the arm sticking out). So Mogh caused him to grow.

[@blumiu2426]

Did you foget Miquella's curse already? He was obviously growing in the cocoon

[@sterlingg.759]

If I'm not mistaken, the Mogh+Miquella painting is likely artistic as it was said the entirety of the cocoon was taken out of the Haligtree. Miquella is also mostly in the coon still, though it certainly has a large crack.

[@RecluseBootsy]

@@sterlingg.759 I'm personally saying they all are. They're verbal recollections being told to the artist who takes certain liberties. It wasn't painted by a someone with a firsthand account of all the demigods and their battles. Rather a thirdhand. The accuracy of these depictions I wouldn't take as the objective truth. The broadstrokes of these stories may be true, but it seems through the grapevine, the details have been embellished depending on who tells the tale.

[@rikelizki1965]

Great video man you go really in-depth Thanks for clarifying this point of contention it really adds another layer of lore to both characters and makers Morgott way cooler. Also don’t the thrones look a bit small for radhan and for rycard because the opning made it seem like rycard was a giant with his head.

[@SmoughTown]

Thank you 🙏 much appreciated Rike

[@rikelizki1965]

@@SmoughTown Thank you man love your vids 💙

[@leonesenpai]

Just because someone is pinned down or looks like they've lost doesn't mean they've lost. I mean this was a younger looking Radahn pre gravity magic training so if he lost it wasn't because it was a all out battle but a battle against someone not trained fully.

[@timothymoore2966]

Hell of a video. You summed it up best. Radahn and his army lost but the artist just depicted it this way. They might not have even actually clashed swords, but it was showing us that Radahn and his army lost

[@katherinewilliams4703]

I think the group of "traitors" before the Margott fight is interesting. Yes they're all characters that turned away from the Golden Order, but did they organize together after the shattering? I always had the impression they were individual decisions, but the idea of a coalition is interesting

[@scottbecker4367]

I think Morgott sees anyone who tries to collect the Elden Ring and upset the balance of the Golden Order as a traitor. I think this is also why he has a special disdain for the tarnished that try to do so. It's one thing for demigods to have such arrogance toward the Order. It's another thing for a lowly tarnished to do so.

[@IsaiahX7-13]

Radahn is considered the strongest out of the demigods during the Shattering (before Malenia matches him at least), but no one knows that Margit the Fell Omen is the demigod Morgott in disguise, so Radahn could still be considered the strongest out of Marika's known children but weaker than the unknown ones such as Morgott or Mohg.

[@Downloadable_4]

By feats alone , I doubt that either Morgott or Mogh are more powerful than Radahn

[@IsaiahX7-13]

@@Downloadable_4 Morgott literally has a feat of beating Radahn himself though, and Mohg embraces his Omen power instead of repressing it like Morgott does and he was granted more power by the Formless Mother. So, it'd make sense that Mohg would be stronger as well.

[@Downloadable_4]

@@IsaiahX7-13 Radahn can turn himself into a meteorite and held the stars in place while suffering from rot for an unexplained amount of time. As for Morgott defeating him , it was explained in the video ^ that it might have been more of a figurative thing.

[@IsaiahX7-13]

@@Downloadable_4 There's no good reason to assume its figurative at all. It showed a literal depiction of Radahn and Malenia's fight in the opening intro when discussing Marika's warring children so why would it be any different for Morgott and Radahn when their fight was depicted during the same part of the intro? Radahn is just the strongest of Marika's known children, he's weaker than Morgott and probably Mohg too. What he can do with his gravity magic evidently doesn't matter if Morgott beat him back when he was in his prime before he even got rotted.

[@Downloadable_4]

@@IsaiahX7-13 You’re clearly overestimating Morgott and Mogh too heavily. In all honesty I think they are pretty powerful myself , maybe even the 3rd and 4th most powerful interchangeably. Since you are taking information that the game itself presents us so literally however, Radahn was stated to be the strongest of the shattering with Malenia being a very close second. All it takes is for us to look at the scenarios in which we defeat them. Radahn literally has a festival in his honor where multiple combatants gather and the goal is to kill him 💀. Morgott and Mogh however, we kill them in single combat.

[@entysing6780]

Your great homie. Thanks for doing what you do.

[@p.c.2349]

The story trailer actually shows one of the sieges of Leyndell (probably the second). First you see Morgott placing down his father’s crown and getting ready for battle. Then you see the scene of Leyndell under siege. Many of the attacking soldiers have Redmane or Liurnian surcoats, which implies they were led by Radahn. The attackers also fire trebuchets which are only used by Radahn’s soldiers in game.

[@christophereim4102]

This just makes Morgott even more impressive, cause this means he might have not just block out Radahn but like a lot of other Demigod.

[@Condorhawk]

It has been said that omens have great strength

[@brightsparkiv4]

Epic as always, I wonder if the duel tilts away from Radahan a little as he may be reluctant to hurl meteors around when surrounded by his beloved soldiers. Just a thought!

[@GeneralRadahn7987]

I personally think this is before he learnt gravity magic,since he is still roughly normal sized/little larger,and therfore wasn't too big to ride his horse yet,which is the reason he wanted to learn gravity magic

[@wellshu1381]

​@DoctorDoom2073 this was during or after the shattering though, which is when everything went bad. the game says radahn learned to wield gravity in his younger days which were way before the demigods started fighting

[@GeneralRadahn7987]

@@wellshu1381 that is true

[@GeneralRadahn7987]

@@wellshu1381 it would make sense if the shattering took place over such a long time that radahn went from normal sized to his current size,which is possible since we don't know how long ago the shattering was or how long the war was

[@wellshu1381]

@@GeneralRadahn7987 he got his own piece of the rune sometime during the shattering just like the others too, who knows if the rune just made him bigger and bigger over all those years. also though morgott is pretty big himself, and even he shrinks down after death. some of these guys just get big and then shrink and some don't. looks like creative discrepancy among the artists and official game designers to me tbh

[@saintsundere]

Along with your point, it could have been depicting Radahn before he grew massive in size; there’s all those articles related to Zullie finding out his horse’s name is Leonard. The wording of his remembrance says he learned gravity magic “all so he would never have to abandon his beloved but scrawny steed.” At one point he must have been the proper size to ride his steed. There is also language about him being a “cub” who grew into a “lion” (could be figurative or literal inference of size).

[@kae5717]

The version of the image I first saw didn't have a good view of the red-haired figure's armor, so I thought it might be Praetor Rykard at first, perhaps the inciting incident that led to him feeding himself to the serpent for more power. Now that I've gotten a look at the image proper, and heard your notes about it being an artistic representation in-game, it reminds me of a very old trope in art (particularly notable in ancient Egyptian work but it's present elsewhere too): the most important figure is depicted as largest, regardless of actual scale.

[@vallgron]

It's so obvious it's margit beating him I think people just latched onto him being the cool character and find it hard to accept he lost

[@SultanFirman]

Yup

[@TheSolarium18]

Stupid how people think in a war of two armies the win is decided with a duell of the two generals. Especially in a siege that doesn’t happen lol So stupid

[@djrocksgaming6255]

@@TheSolarium18 Except they're directly shown fighting. Given the fact that Radahn's army fled, that means that Radahn would've also lost his individual fight against Morgott and was forced to flee. Not to mention that Morgott is a later game story boss, meant to fight a Tarnished who had grown stronger after defeating the other Demigods.

[@chacharealsmooth4667]

@@djrocksgaming6255 I wouldn’t use boss order as a way to tell strength. We don’t know how they fought. Maybe Morgot ambushed them, maybe it was a younger Radahn, maybe after this Radahn turned the tide. It’s a bunch of speculation, and from what we get in lore, it points to Radahn being more powerful and would win in a straight 1v1. All we get from this is he successfully defended the capital

[@djrocksgaming6255]

@@chacharealsmooth4667 Yes, it absolutely is a way. The Tarnished canonically absorbs the strength of each enemy they defeat, meaning they get stronger as the story progresses, meaning later bosses fight a stronger Tarnished. Unless they're an outlier and made much weaker than other bosses (like Gideon), there's nothing to suggest that the main story bosses are just curbstomped by the Tarnished. Reasonably, they should be able to hold their own against the version of the Tarnished that fights them, even if they're ultimately outmatched. Everything lines up with Morgott being stronger than Radahn. It's extremely consistent. You're coming up with these unfounded conjectures to try to cope for your favorite character being the strongest despite how much it's contradicted. Radahn didn't turn the tide; he and his army were forced to retreat due to Morgott. Morgott kicked his ass, and according to the Sword Monument describing the 2nd defense of Leyndell, he also slaughtered most of Radahn's army while he was at it.

[@notme5205]

Thank you for making this video. I’ve been saying Morgott “beat” and repelled his armies but people were arguing with me that it didn’t happen! I get it Radahn is cool but he can be at a disadvantage!

[@SmoughTown]

And thank you so much for watching it!

[@sterlingg.759]

Whether people like it or not, Radahn's forces were absolutely repelled from Leyndell.

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@sterlingg.759 Against all odds, too. Morgott held firm.

[@sterlingg.759]

@@blacktigerpaw1 I have since realized that, unless I'm missing info, it's too much of a jump to say Radahn attacked the capital. Kenneth says Radahn was after Godrick who hid in a castle, which would likely mean Stormveil. There's a Margit there so unless there's more evidenc, I have doubts Radahn/Redmanes attacked the Capital

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@sterlingg.759 Maybe. It is said he went there, and was repelled, and Godrick his from him and his army.

[@Jinnai89]

another funny theory could be: >alliance is standing tall >ranni and rykard plot the night of the black knives >morgoth the veiled lord is trying to maintain order >someone says the veiled lord is killed and has been replaced by margitt the fel omen >alliance shatters and everyone vies for power for themselves >all according to keikaku t. ranni and rykard + co-consiprators

[@diegokaspar7742]

Finally!! This topic has not been talked about enough I feel

[@malbogia8003]

It may have been stated somewhere that I just missed, but was there ever a mention of how long the war lasted? Wars are usually pretty drawn out, giving radahn plenty of time to "grow up" as it were

[@franz83]

If there is one thing I wouldn't get hung up on about in this series is the size of characters. NPCs and mobs are usually oversized and bosses tower upon the player. It is commonplace in all artistic productions, actual size and proportions of things are often altered for all kind of purposes, from adjusting to the angle of view (ever wondered why statues of naked dudes meant to be placed high on a podium have big heads and a small dingdong?) to conveying a sense of power and importance, a literal "moral stature" if you want ;)

[@SmoughTown]

Yep agreed. Sometimes bosses are just big for gameplay reasons

[@kennethyoung4973]

The small penises is also due to the desire of many artists to not draw attention to it specifically, but to be a natural part of the statue and mesh well with the rest of the statue

[@ragergamer2362]

Also in the story trailer of elden ring it shows a scene where an army is marching towards the capital . These mens have the banner of godrick the grafted so i believe that the 1st siege of leyndell was an attack by godrick on the capital

[@Yal_Rathol]

so, the thing i want to mention is that most of the events shown in the intro are out of sequence and happen many years apart. for example, marika is shown shattering the elden ring BEFORE the night of black knives, but that can't be, because it's implied marika may have had a hand in facilitating that event and that she was imprisoned in the erdtree shortly after shattering the ring. remember, under the golden order, all these characters are immune to death. the events of the shattering don't happen over the span of a normal human war, they happen over lifetimes. so, radahn getting pinned to the ground by morgott/margit may have happened when radahn was much younger, because it's stated he didn't start out gigantic, he grew into that body over time. most people assume radahn's backstory about learning gravity magic and fighting the stars happens before the shattering, but that's not stated anywhere. it's easily possible that young radahn claimed his great rune and was chased out of the capital by margit, so he stayed in caelid and built his power, mastering gravity magic, fighting the stars, etc.

[@Captain_Ironbeard]

I would also say that the painting is more or less a representation of the two sides clashing since there would definitely be records of an Omen beating Radahn or at least someone like Gideon would know. Especially considering that Gideon highly regards Malenia for fighting Radahn to a standstill. I don't know if that had the same impact if a seemingly random Omen named Margit (of course not being as random as he seems) could win against the general.

[@WillyTeach]

I assume the "rotting" is in reference to Melania and Miquella, one of whom is rotting and the other wants to leave the Golden Order to find a cure for his sister. The bloody conspiracy, I would think, is in reference to Ranni killing Godwyn, which caused the shattering and eventually led to the battle.

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

I assumed the "Bloody" conspiracy was the Lord of Blood kidnapping her brother to make him his consort and devour the Gods for eternity.

[@WillyTeach]

@@daemonblackfyre3238 that didn't happen till long after the twins had already left the capital.

[@Mrcaptainmorgan93]

I think it's ment yo make you think that but I belive it's just metaphorical. And the bloody conspiracy is definitely the night of black knives.

[@PaszerDye]

This is just the fandom being absolute. The slide shows Morgott pinning Radahn down and getting the best of him. We already know that Radahn is the strongest character in the game by sheer strength and Melania only beat him thru her Scarlet Aeonia. Sure he's strong, but most people are just unimaginative and extrapolate more than needed. Morgott probably didn't beat Radahn and in the second defense of Leyndell, he was likely lashing out at his apparent betrayal. After all, we can tell that Morgott probably held his demigod kin in high regard, considering how he addresses them in his boss fight cutscene. Also, it would be biased to shelve off the intro cinematic as something depicted by some in-universe point of view. Though the intros of the other Soulsborne games are in 3D, we do not take those with a grain of salt, like you assume. Sure, we could think of the slide show as rendition by a painter and can set it aside as 'artistic license', but we do not see these paintings in-game themselves. We cannot excuse them in the same way in-game paintings of Radahn, Radagon, and Melania are rendered, because FS specifically created them for the purpose of the intro, and appear nowhere else. More importantly Soulsborne has already proven that the art, theming and exaggeration, while a tool, can also hold as much weight in the story as what we see visually, because they are all connected. Ornstein (and Smough IIRC) grow in size during their 2nd phase after absorbing their fallen comrade. Vendrick is as large as the Giant King despite still being human. Gascoigne and several beasts turn larger in addition to their monstrous transformations. And us, the player character, are predominantly depicted as tiny compared to all the enemies in these games. And to argue the other side, Owl in Sekiro has different model sizes for cinematic and in-game fight/interaction. Lot of nip and tuck work is done in these 3D cinematics and in-game experiences to make them feel better to the eye. Size and scale of depictions are part of FS and Miyazaki's toolkit in showing us what they wants us to see. So, what is just as important as realizing that some representations hold thematic weight and that other cases are instances of the dev team utilizing that gaze as an objective tool to frame things with better appeal, you should do well to not conflate one with the other. A painting slide show doesn't mean it is any less real or evident than the 3D intros from past games. In this case, it is simply the stylistic rendition. We just need to glean the most important lore details from what we see, and not mistake fat for meat.

[@LucidoMafia]

Awesome vid I normally play elden ring while listening to the lore

[@hansolobutimdead]

Hey, I had a random Elden Ring question, I can't find the answer anywhere: What are Kalé and the other merchants always holding? They have a long stick with a metal hand at the end, I'm assuming it's to hit the donkey when they ride it, but what is the other apparatus?

[@ohb54]

It's a string instrument. The stick with the hand is the bow. Some of the merchants you find will be playing it.

[@scottbecker4367]

It's their holdin' stick. A stick for holdin'.

[@goten339]

Radahn absolutely lost against Morgott, none of the other slides in that intro cinematic are obviously, or non-obviously meant to be taken as a dramatic retelling or metaphorical. Arguing so much otherwise just kinda feels like people jumping through hoops to claim Radahn never lost a fight ever, but I think the truth is far simpler. He lost to Morgott, early into the Shattering war, when Radahn wasn’t yet known as one of the strongest demigods, and back when Morgott was probably in the prime of his youth and strength. It’s been at least a few decades, probably more like centuries. By the time of the game Morgott is using his sword as a walking stick and he looks old. No one calls Radahn undefeated, unlike Malenia who is referred to by Gideon as being specifically undefeated. So Radahn has lost battles, probably when he wasn’t yet one of the strongest demigods. It’s just simpler to me to assume that a younger, smaller Radahn lost his bid to take the capital, kept fighting, learning his gravity magic, becoming physically huge, and years later engaging Malenia in a battle. The shattering war is an apocalyptic event between near-eternal/immortal beings

[@danieldaw1778]

That's fucking dumb. It's not people jumping through hoops to explain away a loss, it's Morgott fanboys taking what looks like an artists representation of a single moment where Morgott is pouncing on Radahn and claiming is unquestionably him defeating Radahn in single combat and that he's actually the strongest Demigod. Like you can't go watch the full rumble in the jungle fight between Ali and Foreman and find a single picture where George looks like he has the upper hand.

[@Cracked_Moon]

@@danieldaw1778 "margit fanboys" lmao. Radahn is the one people jump thru hoops to hero worship

[@goten339]

@@danieldaw1778 What we know is, at some point Morgott clearly had the upper hand, pinning Radahn down and stabbing him, and Radahn's invasion of Lyndell was repelled. Neither Radahn or Morgott were killed in the battle. At no point is Radahn said to be undefeated, and we have another demigod who is specifically called undefeated, despite their battle with Radahn ending in a draw. All this implies Radahn has been defeated before, not in his draw with Malenia because she's still called undefeated despite the draw, so he probably lost the only other fight we know he's had with another demigod; Morgott. Therefore it's very reasonable to conclude that Morgott beat Radahn in battle, and given their differences in strength by the time of the game (even with the rot Radahn is a beast who definitely feels stronger and more agile than Morgott, and that's him past his prime too), we can conclude that at some point, either Radahn was smaller and weaker and got stronger and bigger, or Morgott was much stronger, or both. This isn't real life, it isn't a snapshot taken of a real fight taken out of context, the developers very intentionally choose what we, as players, see in the cinematics and game. What would be the point of misleading the players in this particular matter? Also, frankly, there's a lot less annoying Morgott fanboys than there are annoying Radahn fanboys. Obviously it isn't single combat, you can see Radahn foot soldiers in the image, and we know there's Lyndell knights and soldiers etc, we also see an army attacking Lyndell which is huge and has trolls.

[@danieldaw1778]

@@Cracked_Moon how do they jump through hoops to hero worship him? What hoops are they jumping through? Cause if it's saying "this one thing isn't proof that Morgott is stronger than Radahn, that's not jumping through hoops.

[@Cracked_Moon]

@@danieldaw1778 the entire premise of this being "open artistic interpretation" is a massive hoop. None of the other slides are treated this way. People are only making this argument because they want their precious hero Radahn to be the ultimate badass. And hes cool, sure, but people take it way too far. Like all of this.

[@rand0m508]

What you're saying about paintings being more symbolic than literal is spot on, and I think it's pretty likely that the painting even just symbolizes whose army won, and not who literally won in a 1 on 1 fight

[@jakefoley9539]

Radahn: Runs a small fort at the edge of the continent, restricted to wandering around in the back yard while his men attempt to put him out of his misery. Morgott: Works a double shift holding down the entire capital city while remaining hidden and hunting down potential usurpers as his alter ego. Yeah, I'm thinking Margit defeated Radahn.

[@darthacez]

I heavily believe that Radahn retreated due to his soldiers being on the losing side and Radahn deeply cares for his own and chose to retreat to prevent any more bloodshed and ended his fight with Morgott in a stalemate.

[@SmoughTown]

Yep makes total sense to me mate!

[@darthacez]

@@SmoughTownYeah It clicked to me as soon as I compare both Redmane soldiers and the Leyndell Royal Capital Soldiers.

[@Lila_S.]

Every time I watch one of your videos, my mind is blown away. You open so many possibilities that didn't even cross my mind. I agree with your take on situation purely because it fits Morgott's character. I mean, compared to others who face Tarnished one on one in a combat, Morgott is the only one who fights Tarnished by other means- he waits you at the place you will probably go first because Godrick is the weakest shardbearer and then he strategically places defences on every entrance to prevent you coming into capital- exactly like a general would. He strategically goes around the whole thing. Radhan on the other hand is a general because of who he is,he's trained for it, he admired Godfrey and all that, but honestly because of how powerful he is, one wonders how much strategy he had to apply in a battle. Even when it comes to Godfrey I never thought of him as great strategist. Marika was a planner, and he was a doer- she plans how and practically unleashes Godfrey and/or Golden Order on her enemies. So, yes, I don't think picture means that Morgott beat Radhan in a fight, but I can see his strategy defeating Radhan's advances on the capital.

[@LordDoom10]

We definitely an animated series covering The Shattering. So many cool fights to see.

[@2402Stevo]

Morgott's a fucking badass, and he's one of the most sympathetic characters in the entire game. Radahn losing to such a character shouldn't be seen as demeaning.