Elden Ring Lore - Who Is Messmer The Impaler? Shadow of the Erdtree Speculation

The DLC has finally been revealed. On June 21st we will enter the Land of Shadows and face our toughest trials yet, including Messmer, the Impaler. Join us as interrupt our regularly scheduled programming to we speculate wildly about the lore and enemies we will face in this new land.
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[@dwemerproject1235]

My initial thought was that Messmer was a forgotten son of Marika and Radagon. He is seen as a heretic due to the fact he has snakes which resemble a blasphemous act and that he wields thorns in his flames. I think he's some sort of forgotten demigod that was erased from history bc he was an embarrassment to them. Just like the nameless king from ds3. We know how from soft likes to make call backs to other games

[@willbell4614]

My theory is that he’s actually miquella, but after being given the blood from mohgs palace and the defeat of rykard. It would explain the blood flame and the snakes. It’s turned him into a darker version of himself. But given how crazy the other demigods were, there’s no telling if he was actually as benevolent as we were led to believe. Yeah he tried to heal his sister of the rot. But he was also in the process of making his own erdtree.

[@daejonrosarioking374]

@@willbell4614would be cool but most of this is debunked in the interview w Miyazaki

[@808nzaro]

Messmer -Smoldering🦋 Malenia- Aeonia🦋 Miquella- Nascent

[@MideIck11]

Yօʊ sօʊlsbօʀռɛ faռs aռɖ ɢaʍɛʀs ʟɨӄɛ ʏօʊ aʀɛ sօʍɛ օʄ tɦɛ stʊpɨɖɛst aռɖ ʍօst ɛʟɨtɨst aռɖ ʊռpʀօɖʊctɨvɛ աօʀtɦʟɛss tʀօɢʟօɖʏtɛs jʊst ʟɨkɛ DSP! Aʟʟ օʄ ʏօʊ ɖʊʍb tʀօɢʟօɖʏtɛs sɦօʊʟɖ stɨcӄ tօ աɦɨռɨռɢ oռ rɛddit, ɨt's tɦɛ onɛ tɦɨռɢ ʏօʊ'ʀɛ ɢօօɖ at ɨռ tɦօsɛ օӼʏɢɛռ-աasȶɨռɢ ʍɨstaӄɛs ʏօʊ caʟʟ "ʟɨvɛs", ʊsɛʟɛss ɨɖɨօts աɦօ tɦɨռk ʏօʊ'ʀɛ sօmɛthɨռg աɦɛռ ʏօʊ'ʀɛ faɨʟɛɖ aռɖ braɨռɖɛaɖ abօʀtɨօռs! 🤣

[@user-qg1wl1dp2q]

R.R Martin has coked here 🔥

[@zenebean]

I love that Messmer has almost every "sin" in the lands between in his design and powers: dragon communion eyes, blasphemous snakes, bloody flames, cursed red hair. Maybe he somehow is taking in all of these sins... or Fromsoft wanted us guessing on what his deal is though. Love his design in any case, and Pat's art of him!

[@HN-fb6md]

With that said he looks so sinful, almost like Lucifer like.

[@mikealphaxray228]

And thorn magic!

[@cyber5345]

Messmer is the Yang to the Golden Order’s Yin

[@AManChoosesASlaveObeys]

It just needs some relations with Omens and the set is complete!

[@noamias4897]

He has serpents, which are considered the blasphemous enemy to the Erdtree, He uses thorns, which are for sinners and enemies to the Erdtree He uses bloodflame, the symbol of the formless mother, an enemy to the Erdtree He has dragon communion eyes, and dragons are enemies to the Erdtree He has the red hair of the giants, an enemy to the Erdtree All that's missing are Omen horns, Albinauric legs, Misbegotten's wide mouth and Boris Johnson's haircut and the underground people's clothes to cover all groups the Erdtree/Golden Order hates

[@agm5424]

I think Messmer is the opposite of Godwyn. If Godwyn is the perfect demigod-prince loved by everyone then Messmer was such a crazy and destructive guy that Marika locked him up in an entirely different land to keep him the f away from everyone.

[@OneStarRating]

Godwyn's twin perhaps?

[@qualiswilliams7403]

Naw makes zero since

[@agm5424]

​@@OneStarRating No, not Godwyn's twin. If that were the case then Messmer's name would've started with the letter G. Also Godwyn is Marika and Godfrey's first born son. Since Messmer has red hair and a name that starts with the letter M he may be a child of Marika and Radagon, maybe their first born son furthering the possibility that he is Godwyn's opposite.

[@heckingbamboozled8097]

​@agm5424 to be fair, godwyns name starts with G while Morgott and Mohg start with M. For some reason, that generation of children doesn't follow the naming conventions of the others - Radahn, Ranni, Rykard with R, Miquella, Melania, and *maybe* Messmer with M

[@FWS_Sinister]

I was thinking this too and the line "Mother, wouldst thou truly order Lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light?" could be Messmer or someone else questioning his authority given his lack of grace of gold. Or Messmer could be questioning the tarnished's authority to come fight him since they lack grace of gold. Messmer might also be questioning Miquella's authority but from my understanding Miquella is like a guide like Melina, but he did reject the golden order. Edit: just watched the smoughtown video, actually makes so much sense Messmer is talking to us since Marika did lead us and helped us get to the throne

[@2ndslowpoke753]

Something I haven’t seen many people talk about and I find very interesting is the bear roar incantation they showed us. It’s resemblance to dragon roar incantations makes me wonder if those old theories about Rune Bears actually being dragons have some truth to them.

[@noamias4897]

That'd be so cool, and fun to see old theories hold weight

[@kieranpeck9890]

I wondered the same thing

[@Moorish-American7]

Maybe the bears ate a dead dragon's heart.

[@Argonisgema]

Perhaps its evolution. dragons being such a ancient race just evolving into bears

[@Kn1ghtborne]

Not only that We might get Rune bear attacks as communion That's awesome

[@caliaid]

Messmer’s spear (and the spears he summons) kinda look like what’s sticking out of dead giants on the mountaintops

[@D0verking69]

Dude! nice catch

[@SebbyIsYummy]

that would make sense since he's called "the impaler"

[@aleksi3201]

Didn't Godfrey kill the giants tho?

[@thatchild4522]

@@aleksi3201Godfrey led the charge against them

[@shock2311]

@@thatchild4522 Which if he had actually been the one to slay them you would think he would be remembered as such given the significance of it & his status. Given the red hair of Messmer The Impaler he can't be the son of Godfrey so they couldn't have fought side by side, unless. Messmer The Impaler is actually the first born son of Godfrey & Marika but after giving in to "sin" he was banished & expunged for history. As another commenter has said - "@noamias4897 He has serpents, which are considered the blasphemous enemy to the Erdtree, He uses thorns, which are for sinners and enemies to the Erdtree He uses bloodflame, the symbol of the formless mother, an enemy to the Erdtree He has dragon communion eyes, and dragons are enemies to the Erdtree He has the red hair of the giants, an enemy to the Erdtree" Wouldn't be the first time Fromsoft has done this (Nameless King DS3, Gwyn's firstborn)

[@AndrewStonerock]

Miyazaki confirmed the lion thing is a costumed dancer. He also confirmed the fact that the Land of shadows is where Marika became a god.

[@MagaldiMateus]

He is Miquella best friend, it was his idea to build the treehouse up north. Now he is searching for his long missing childhood friend.

[@todd3143]

this is my favorite theory

[@Legocatshouse]

He represents everything Miquella wanted to protect. I don't doubt it. ❤

[@Nihil847]

Like how Radahn glorified Godfrey and his father, Rykard might’ve found inspiration from Messmer

[@Technosapien1213]

We don't even know who mesmer is so saying rykard took inpiration from his is a long strech.But it's a interesting theory

[@noamias4897]

I just think his snakes, just like his eyes, thorns, blood and red hair are meant to represent thing the Erdtree hates

[@kode-man23]

That was my theory, except reversed haha. I think that Messmer is going to be a fanboy of Rykard.

[@skeletorgames8641]

@@Technosapien1213maybe he took inspiration from Rykard?

[@ahealthkit2745]

@@skeletorgames8641I mean, if this is back in time, I imagine that Rykard probably took inspiration from Messmer?

[@Kitzue_]

Outside the Impalers Catacombs in the weeping peninsula, there's a spirit outside saying "O Marika. Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child." This to me seems like concrete evidence that his mother is Marika. They had it planned from the beginning. FS are goated.

[@noamias4897]

It was puzzling why Godwyn (the only known dead child of Marika) would be unwanted by her, or what it has to do with an "impaler" , so another child (Messmer) makes so much sense!

[@DaniGerman1499]

I’ve heard this isn’t actually outside the catacombs, I will confirm

[@DaniGerman1499]

And yeah it was planned because this is all based on the OG story from RR Martin

[@DaniGerman1499]

Ok it’s not outside the impalers catacombs. Some dick made a photo and it was spread around super fast and everyone is believing it. That spirit is at the church of pilgrimage,

[@noamias4897]

@@DaniGerman1499 it's close to them but not right outside. It's by the church near the walking mausoleum

[@ColourizeTheStreets]

In medieval times having twin boys was actually seen as a detriment because it caused major issues for the line of succession. I believe we have a "Man in the Iron Mask" situation with Messmer. He was Godwyns twin but not wanting the line of succession disputed, he was disinherited and banished. His red hair was likely the factor that caused Godwyn to be the more desirable heir. Mesmer was erased from all forms of record keeping to prevent rebel factions of being drawn to him much like the Nameless King. Perhaps being disinherited led him to resent the golden order and fall to blasphemous acts like dragon communion, snake worship or fire worship. This also adds to his comment about why Marika chooses us (presumably) to be lord and not him, he should be next in line after Godwyns death but still remains banished fueling even more resentment. Wild theory based on no evidence time! What if Messmer is the villain responsible for the chaos and blasphemy in the lands between? What if he is the one who consorted with Ranni to kill Godwyn? People have long theorized that Marika assisted Ranni in her plot and provided her with the Black Knife Assassins. This however never answered why Marika would do that in any convincing way. But what if it was Messmer? What if Messmer consorted with Ranni to have Godwyn killed so that Messmer could take his place as the favoured son and heir only for Marika to once again shun him and destroy the ring in favour of a tarnished becoming lord. Maybe she even shattered the ring to prevent Messmer from controlling it. She split the ring amongst the demigods like Radahn and Malenia to prevent Messmer from remaking it. Thats why she has been impaled, Messmer tried to usurp the Elden Ring so Marika shattered it, he then impaled her in the womb so she couldnt have more kids (ie: she cant produce another heir leaving him her only uncursed son) To me this makes a lot of sense, if Messmer is Marikas son then it stands to reason that he may ties or influence with her homeland (presumably the Shadow lands) which may be where the Black Knife Assassins come from. This also makes sense as the Assassins were said to have their faces concealed by shadow, perhaps a reference to the shadow lands and how it has been concealed? The Black Knife Assassin outside Marikas bed chamber was placed by Messmer to stop us from becoming lord. The Assassins in the catacombs seemingly protecting the death root could also be planted by Messmer to ensure deathblight continues to corrupt the lands between as some form of revenge by Messmer. He is tarnishing his brothers legacy out of spite and envy. His line questioning our lordship could be further evidence of his spiteful and vengeful nature. Messmer is the true villain, he secretly orchestrated everything. He had our finger maiden killed to prevent the tarnished from becoming stronger and becoming lord. He told Mohg where to find Miquella to prevent Miquella from becoming god. He told Rykard where to find the Great Serpent as to instigate a war. He is the ultimate anarchist, who has been sowing the seeds of chaos and discord from the very beginning.

[@fnorddock7290]

This deserves more attention, I think you nailed it on the head.

[@ryuivanovich7271]

If that’s true, then this answers a lot but also puts more questions into the fore. It also gives us a clear “bad” guy, but why then is he considered a hero by miyazaki?

[@ColourizeTheStreets]

@@ryuivanovich7271 Who knows. Its all conjecture with no hard evidence. Just something to think about. If I had to say, it may be that his deeds went unsung. There are unanswered questions, like how and who impaled the giants at the mountain top. We know Godwyn bested Fortisax, but who dealt the final blow to Gransax is unknown. Some kind of well intentioned blasphemy could have led to his name and deeds being erased. There is a chance he might just be a casualty of something greater, but it seems as if he is being portrayed as the main antagonist. Could be a literal red herring and Miquella is the real bad guy and final boss.

[@Tower-kn1dr]

Small problems of why do you sispect that we know all of Marika children? Dont forget that she has says that losers would be forgott

[@SterbsMcGurbs]

Similar to Mick Foley and Cactus Jack, you'll never see Messmer, St. Trina, and Miquella in the same room.

[@ReactRapTuga]

i dont think he is an alter ego... remember there were more unnamed demi gods in the lore of the main game

[@SterbsMcGurbs]

@@ReactRapTuga Cactus Jack demigod confirmed

[@mrct592]

I get the feeling that Messmer is to Miquella what Radagon is to Marika. A red haired Rebus, where all the power of heresy an Empyrean isn't supposed to be wielding can be held on by a clone of its personality.

[@ReactRapTuga]

Miquella already is Saint Trina, i think Messmer is his own character

[@ahealthkit2745]

Would be interesting if Messmer is actually Miquella's shadow...

[@Fraustyy]

Miquella already has an altar ego. Can't have 3, that's just lazy writing then.

[@Darfail]

​@@Fraustyy not quite, remember Millicent's sisters?

[@keynanmoore7409]

I think that's it bro honestly like a dark version of miquella not sure though​@@ahealthkit2745

[@hhowdy]

Near the impaler catacombs in the weeping peninsula there is a spirit that says “O Marika, Queen Marika. He is your unwanted child.” Queen Marika has an orange spike *impaled* in her when we enter the Erdtree and Messmer’s imaginary seems to be all blasphemous and anti Golden Order (Thorns, snakes, fire etc.) So I think Messmer tried to kill his own mom was striped of gold and was legible to enter The Land of Shadows

[@fistybaby9489]

People keep mentioning this spirit, where exactly is it? I looked around the catacombs and couldn’t find him.

[@Hoarahchadtheallgrabbing]

​​@@fistybaby9489 It is in front of Pilgrimage church 😂

[@nnnnnnnnn8888]

@@Hoarahchadtheallgrabbing Well that spirit could be also talking about the demigod buried in the walking mausoleum lium since he mentions the mausoleum itseld in his dialogue

[@Technosapien1213]

Holy shit that's a really good theory best one I've seen till now

[@jordanbrown3816]

Dang it makes a lot of sense that the spirit is referring to Messmer! However the part about Marika being impaled is likely something done by the greater will/Elden Beast to punish her for breaking the Elden Ring. This is because Elden Beast has an impaling move identical to the light that impales Marika .

[@eaglespiritt]

Mesmer is patches when he grows his hair out and the snake represents his behavior towards the player.😂

[@apophisstr6719]

Can't wait for him to kick me off into a Deathblight swamp!

[@GenshinNoir]

snake represents him trying to become a serpent for Tanith to love

[@josephdellavecchia7828]

Oh damn, the artist really knocked it out of the park for this video

[@wolfiemuse]

Pat is awesome isn’t he

[@Lampaluile]

Duelist set : "The snake is viewed as a traitor to the Erdtree, and the audience delighted in seeing these bronze effigies beaten and battered." Perhaps this adds weight to the theory that messmer was banished or was given a task by marika. This grand reveal is gonna be amazing

[@noamias4897]

He has serpents, which are considered the blasphemous enemy to the Erdtree, He uses thorns, which are for sinners and enemies to the Erdtree He uses bloodflame, the symbol of the formless mother, an enemy to the Erdtree He has dragon communion eyes, and dragons are enemies to the Erdtree He has the red hair of the giants, an enemy to the Erdtree All that's missing are Omen horns, Albinauric legs, Misbegotten's wide mouth and Boris Johnson's haircut and the underground people's clothes to cover all groups the Erdtree/Golden Order hates

[@Lampaluile]

I think I might have caught onto something else in the intro cinematic of the base game. When we see Fia the deathbed companion , she is under a red blanket with a golden symbol that is very similar to the one on Messmer's back and on the new Shield Twinblade we see in the Trailer. Considering Fia's role it's likely to be related as I believe the Spirit world is the world of those who died (As explained in the Elphen Steeple) Another thing that is probably just a stretch though is again in the intro cutscene , the Dung eater has some kind of necklace in the form of a sun. The sun is referenced in the Eclipse and is also seen in the Brazier type boss in the Trailer cinematic.@@noamias4897

[@sorath1396]

For Messmer, that hair, those draconic eyes, and that helmet look very inspired by Grunbeld from Berserk. Considering all the other Berserk references, I pretty much guarantee it. The name The Impaler also immediately reminded me of Vlad the Impaler, aka the inspiration behind Dracula.

[@scrapfox295]

Wait wasnt lore for some weapon about impaler

[@dikastederook6380]

Considering Martin loves historical references, the Vlad Tepes reference is beyond obvious

[@bepkororoti8019]

I love the idea of the shadow tree actually being upside down roots so the shadow lands could possibly be literally flipped, exciting

[@zurrfromdanawf]

He is the forgotten Empyrean of old, that wielded destine death, that Marika seal away. Before the flame erupted you can see the blackness that associated with death. Go watch Maliketh's end fight scene and then Messmer's flame and it's a one to one parallel. The snake iconography is also present in the godskin apostles. I haven't seen anyone say this.

[@ctyoro5086]

Messmer kind of feels like a fanmade character(not in a bad way) As in someone using everything that is against the Erdtree. Like I'd expect 1 or 2 aspects for a character to devote their life to causes against the Erdtree, but for him, it's like just everything into one person.

[@doot7730]

Its plke a perfect a perfect biblical enemy of the erdtree

[@HenryGreenEngine3]

I propose Messmer was Melina's twin. Evidence: flames and similar faces

[@marcopaolo1643]

It is probably why his left eye was, seemingly, deliberately obscured in the close up of his face! 😮

[@Fraustyy]

Ranni's eye is the same way though, perhaps that is the mark of an Empyrean? All the Empyrean's have a messed up eye. Ranni, Malenia, Melina, and perhaps Miquella as well.

[@lanceelopezz223]

Lol. Male face faaar away from melina’s female face

[@whimsiquisitive]

The shadow lands being a literally inverted world actually works well if we assume the carian looking character we see sitting on a throne is indeed the same character from the inverted tower artifact.

[@DeadDeadDeadski]

Something about the yellow spine in the old man’s body and head that he’s pulling on looks so reminiscent of the Elden Ring the way it appears inside of Rad/Mar, but missing the rings. The long arms of it flex down as he pulls it up which also seems odd. Elden Ring trick weapon maybe?

[@cyber5345]

you can see hands holding up the head of the dog boy in nearly every shot. one on the chin, and one on the left side of the face.

[@square-table-gaming]

Yes! That's what we're describing when we mention the form on top of the base that's holding the mouth together.

[@cyber5345]

@@square-table-gaming definitely seems to be a play on the chinese dragon costumes operated by two people. morgott & mohg?? whoever it is, seems to support the idea of duality converging to become more powerful

[@anthonygrant5570]

I don’t think its deathblight, it lacks the golden hue, could possibly be another status effect or a “shadow” attack

[@anthonygrant5570]

I also believe Mesmer could be related to Rykard or is Rykard reborn

[@cyber5345]

@@anthonygrant5570 idk, that theory seems supported solely by the presence of snakes. i think its much more likely messmer is a character who was deliberately not mentioned in the base game

[@ienott]

The way you described the land as removed, reminded me if Marika removing the rune of death from the Elden ring. Perhaps by doing that she also removed access to this land of (seemingly) death?

[@Fraustyy]

that's a good catch to make actually. I could see the Shattering affecting the ability to access the Shadowlands. Maybe we need to also have the game fully completed before traveling there, and have done one of the mending endings?

[@ienott]

@@Fraustyy in one of the interviews Miyazaki said we can access it after defeating Mogh or Radan of all ppl

[@nicholashaywood7949]

I always thought when miquella divested himself it was a separation similar to what Ranni ended up doing. That his physical body and blood was left behind in order to be nutrients to the haligtree, but was cut short by mohg. Now his empty body is just there when the player will use it as the way to access the shadow lands.

[@benjeesilv1596]

Mesmer as a word has more of connection with miquela's abilities of causing infatuation and inducing sleep. Maybe its an additional aspect of miquella? He has the allure of a god no? Alluring is synonymous with mesmerizing.

[@jpavielle]

This exact thought randomly occurred to me as I was thinking about his name “Messmer=mesmerizing”

[@averytherockgod9822]

My theory is the Land of Shadow could somehow be connected to the spirit world mentioned in the item description of Helphen’s Steeple, and the giant shadowy Erdtree is indeed the Helphen itself

[@markr3730]

Messmer gives me nameless king vibes I suspect he was disowned by Marika like how Gwyn did to his firstborn when he allied with the dragons. Though with the moniker of “the impaler” like vlad the impaler….well let hope he doesn’t go on long walks.

[@KSkrode]

the thing about the cocoon is that we can see Miquella's form in the roots of the haligtree while Melania sleeps against it

[@alphawolf7417]

Wait....suppose Messmer is the one in the cocoon. If Miquella was the tree woman who's womb was torn out by Mohg. Then is it possible Mesmer's mother is not Marika, but instead Miquella/Trina?

[@KSkrode]

@@alphawolf7417 well we know that the haligtree is meant to be a home or refuge of sorts for all kinds of rejects from the golden order: albinaurics, those who live in death, misbegotten, and so on. what if Messmer is one of those rejects, and Mohg mistook his cocoon for Miquella's and kidnapped the infant demigod of some "sacrilegious" parentage, hence the snakes and bloodflame etc not necessarily what I think is happening but it's something to consider

[@BitterSteel69]

I think in addition to the DLC exploring more of Miquella’s story (and possibly Godwin’s) it’s going to focus a lot on the origin of the great Serpent that Rykard fed himself to. There are many references in the base game to the serpent being the ancient archenemy of the erdtree, from item descriptions and design details related to the gladiators/arenas, but details are extremely sparse. Messmer clearly has lots of snake iconography and is even dressed similarly to an arena gladiator. His weapon is also a glaive/swordspear similar to the Serpent Hunter which could be significant. Seems like From cut out nearly everything related to the origin of the great serpent to save it for DLC. It would also make sense considering that Rykard/Volcano Manor had a rather disappointing ending. I have a feeling that there will be a big reveal about Godwin too, there’s too much deathblight stuff in the trailer for him to not be involved somehow.

[@theoutergod8666]

I subscribe to the main theory, that Messmer is the reason, why Lands Between hate serpents. His actions and connection to serpents has lead to the association between serpents and not gut.

[@ShinjiIkari007]

Snakes are described as "traitors", not "enemies" to the Erdtree. So that means Messmer was once an ally to the Erdtree but due to some reason he betrayed them(traitor) & was yeeted into the Shadow Realm lol

[@TiberiusRex182]

Theres a fire in my loins, the trouser snake has wings!

[@wolfiemuse]

TIBERIUS LOL

[@kirkfogg8366]

Bat wings lmfao

[@cyber5345]

just noticed the butterfly magic takes place at the base of a small, winding tree. almost seems as if someone is defending a newly planted tree…

[@Technosapien1213]

Nah it's just us tarnished using a aoe spell.

[@cyber5345]

@@Technosapien1213 im more speculating about the location. but we are tracing the steps of miquella. and we know he planted his own tree

[@jonathanrothmare3509]

My theory. Miquela is dreaming he is messmer. Because Mesmer knows the secret to cure the scarlet rot. . Which was miquela goal. Cure Melania of scarlet rot. . Messmer is a memory. And miquela is acting it out to aquire knowledge. But .. perhaps lost himself to mesmmers memory?

[@l.o.l7049]

Calling it now: messmer is possible the child of rykard and tanith. Mainly because of the snake either wrapped around him or coming out of him like a weird conjoined twin. The misbegotten beast creature might be a result of grafting, Mainly because of those human like limbs don't match with the animal head.

[@square-table-gaming]

I thought this for a second too, but the timeline wouldnt match up based on what the description of the DLC tells us. He burned the land while Marika was around, so it would have happened well before Rykard was born.

[@l.o.l7049]

😲 I didn't know that. Hell messmer might be marika's brother. Or even some sort of bridge point to elden ring 2 should that ever happen. I definitely think snakes, snake men etc are definitely gonna be really important. But i do wonder if he will be the final boss. Maybe he's the penultimate one. Or he might turn into a big ol snake monster.

[@TheeRealLeon]

Did everyone miss the part Tanith was legitimately devouring rykard corpse possible to ensure his essence continues. “Our Lord was yet weak. You have taught us that. Defeat is not the end. Our Lord is immortal, and will one day rise again, stronger. Until then, I must stay the path, and do my part. I will leave the Volcano Manor before long. I suggest you do the same. I will miss these encounters. The champion who walks the tainted path shines all the more. I always was an admirer.” What if she used the knowledge of our combat skills during her mission to ensure rykards next rebirth would be more formidable. She leaves Valcano Manor so an undetermined location.

[@TheeRealLeon]

Reincarnation of rykard ??? 🤨

[@urtoryu_dy_althraidn]

I'll just leave a few interesting notes here too as an add-on: Messmer's title I "The Impaler", and his abilities seem to resemble both the red spear piercing Marika, as well as the thorn sorceries impaling the giant corpses in the Mountaintops. The second one would be particularly interesting, as him taking part in that war against the giants gives us a slightly better idea of which time period he was a part of. Serpents are also represented in the armor of Duelists, who are inspired by roman gladiators. This is particularly interesting when you consider how Messmer himself seems to wear very roman inspired garb. The trailer also included a Chinese lion and an NPC wearing what looked like a Greek hero's armor, so they seem to be following a theme of ancient civilizations for the DLC's visual style. The Land of Shadows being similar in size or bigger than Limgrave reminds me of the crater in the center of the map. If this was a land that was separated from the Lands Between, that could explain the crater.

[@daniellaschaening4470]

the fog coming from the lion looks more like fia's mist than death blight

[@viktorpagels7569]

I felt like it looks like the storms in farum azula.

[@boostur]

The thought of Messmer being the one in the cocoon this whole time… that’d be pretty cool honestly

[@diegeticfridge9167]

That would be so cool, and it makes sense since each set of children shared the same first letter in their names (ranni, radagon) so maybe Melania and miquella had another sibling the whole time. Messmer

[@agamemnonsrevenge]

The face of the old man in the portrait looks somewhat like Morgott’s face on his shriveled body after defeating him in Leyndell.

[@Alex-mn1fb]

I was completely off the Evil Miquella hype train, but the trailer actually made me consider it for the first time. I have a feeling this emphasis on "Kind Miquella" in the trailer, shown glowing with divine light at the end of the trailer might be a red herring, and that Messmer is the Fallen/Luciferian/Unseelie Fay/Vampiric (the Impaler clearly parallels Vlad the Impaler a.k.a. Dracula) version to the traditional Angelic, Seelie-Fay version of Miquella. And the name Messmer practically means "hypnotism or a compelling attraction and fascination", which makes me think of the Bewitching Branch description. Also the description that we are following in the footsteps of Miquella makes me think he is not here for interactions with the player, and the description of Miquella who "Divested himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage. Of all things Golden. And now Miquella awaits the return of his promised Lord." could be read that he stripped himself of everything that made him Miquella, and waits now for the Tarnished as a boss And two things can be true at the same time and not be mutually exclusive, the two versions of Miquella could coexist, be an alter ego, or perhaps a corrupted version that exists as a separate entity, while the spiritual good Miquella might still be a helper.

[@rogue5098]

I saw a theory about how Messmer is the very being of blaspheme and how he is similar to gwyns first born son in that he might have committed an act or several acts so vile that he was cast out from the lands between and sent to the land of shadow. Some of these acts are that he may have been the one behind the making of the black knives and could have been the first person to steal destined death from maliketh. he could of also been the one to impale Marika/radagon which we see in the cutscene to fight radagon. He's really cool and I can't wait for more lore about him to drop and be discovered

[@noamias4897]

He has serpents (a blasphemous enemy to the Erdtree), thorns (used by sinners, enemies to the Erdtree), bloodflame (symbol of the formless mother (enemy to the Erdtree)), dragon communion eyes (dragons are enemies to the Erdtree) and red hair of the giants (enemy to the Erdtree). He even shares skin color with the godskins (enemies to the Erdtreekr. All he needs are Omen horns, Albinauric legs and Misbegotten's Boris Johnson haircut to cover all groups the Erdtree/Golden Order hates. The NPC saying ""O Marika. He is your unwanted child." outside of the Impaler's Catacomb supports his mother being Marika. It was puzzling why Godwyn (the only known dead child of Marika) would be unwanted and what it has to do with an "impaler" , so another child (Messmer) makes sense. Maybe he's Godwyn's twin? Or Miquella, Melania and Messmer are triplets? All I know is that it's badass for him to have been planned from the start.

[@KD-wc4rs]

U literally copied this 😂

[@Jetlifeetravi]

Wouid make sense that he's everything we thought Melenia was. He's the third child of Marika and Radagon. Represented by the smoldering butterfly

[@benjaminrabuzin9957]

the first thing messermer said, “mother” is he a servant/son of the formless mother, not a son of marika ? With the dragon knight set he’s got and the blood flame magic I think it’s a possibility we may see the blood star in the dlc

[@Technosapien1213]

No he said mother would u really approve us the tarnished to be Eldenlord . Now that authority solely belongs to Marika not the formless mother and even if it did she couldnt care less about us.

[@Zach-qo1on]

I think that we will see the crucible or that shadow erdtree is the crucible. The crucible was the start of the sprouting of the erdtree and Marika first steps was she surfaced was during the age of the crucible when the tree was still growing. Explains why the themes of the Crucible and primal beings are seen all over the place, and if it’s under the erdtree it’ll make sense that the roots (crucible) are heavily present and explain why it’s corrupted by Deathblight, I don’t know if we will ever solve the Godwyn problem or explore it more in the dlc, I just think it’s a reminder that Death blight is taking over and the only way to stop it is via one the endings.

[@cde9885]

Mesmer was a previous elden lord or a candidate for becoming ones, the person we hear asking basically 'mother why would you accept someone like HIM as elden lord' is miquella asking marika why she would be willing to take mesmer as elden lord.

[@gavina-kk5td]

What if the Land of Shadow is where the Tarnished were sent after being stripped of their grace by Marika. Because she is so associated with the area and it is an area devoid of the light and “all things golden” it would make sense and setup some really interesting lore perspectives.

[@zerodeadwolf213]

From what I've pieced together from other people talking about Miyazaki's interviews, is that the Land of Shadow is somewhere where Marika first went after becoming a God, not whilst she was still an Empyrean. And this is before the Erdtree took root and creation of the Golden Order. Messmer is also one of Marika's children but prior to her taking Godfrey as her consort and making him the First Elden Lord. Now this is my theory with the overarching story of Elden Ring but with Messmer having the same "cursed" hair as Radagon, it's possible we might finally get some clue or context as to how or why "Radagon is Marika and Messmer possibly has a connection to that.

[@odd-eyes6363]

One other thing I noticed is Messmer's title as Impaler. I think that title is in reference to the real-life Dracula, Vlad The Impaler. Messmer hunts down the graceless in the Land of Shadows. Maybe there is an actual threat to the Erdtree and the Golden Order there, and he is all that stands between it and the Lands Between. Just like what Vlad Tepes did when fighting the Ottoman Empire. Messmer's blasphemous visage being in contrast to his dedication to Marika would also resemble how Vlad tried his best to look like a devil to his enemies, torturing many and going down in history as a monster to some, despite being a hero for others.

[@mikeyroy66]

I believe Messmer's bereft of light dialogue is directed to Miquella.

[@alexterieur8813]

interesting ! Maybe Miquella is kind of a narcissistic figure with malenia being under his charismatic influence and Messmer being the black sheep/scapegoat of the family. Miquella being a golden child of Marika ans Messmer the rebel that opposes his parents/the status quo

[@mobster-_lobster5197]

I really love the theory that messmer is the one in the caccoon, bad ass idea, hope it's cannon

[@kockblockerlawl]

Think you're right about it being Messmer's hand. At the end of the trailer you can hear Miquella saying touch the withered arm. Seems like he shouldn't be able to say that if it was him the egg or he should say touch "my" arm.

[@bervestormbottom3357]

Everyone says blood flame but to me it looks more like blackflame with the red of true death

[@Technosapien1213]

Me too and i hope as hell it is but cant be since death is more black and light reddish colour and it's been freed now😊

[@snapfrostzz9946]

I think Mesmer is a potential body for miquella that he was preparing for himself to be transferred to, due to miquella being incapable of doing much for the lands between in his current form, however it was cut short by mogh and the body was corrupted, it would makes sense that the body was in a cocoon, and the cocoon came from miquellas tree

[@giantmoist8620]

👏

[@Cavar21]

@@giantmoist8620 No. Most of the soulsgame DLC are not connected to the main story/game.. for a simple reason.. Companies are pushed to release in a certain release date - creating a story with a DLC in mind would be impossible to do..

[@snapfrostzz9946]

@@Cavar21 it’s a theory , calm down fromsoftware Karen

[@kieranpeck9890]

@@Cavar21that’s… just not true. All of the DLC’s we’ve seen are connected to the main game in some way or another, some a whole lot such as DS1 and some less so such as DS3, but all of them are continuations of the story of the base game and tie a lot of loose ends introduced.

[@loch1694]

@@Cavar21 What souls games have you been playing? Tf

[@jeremybrenneman4395]

I've noticed something, if you go to the volcano manor to tanith where she sits you see a painting of praetor rykard when he was a man, off you look at the sword he holds, it is the same hilt as the large knight with horn face mask, and the same as the clip of the old man's cape, my thought is that they are the same as rykards recusants

[@Hoarahchadtheallgrabbing]

Messmer is the main character in the DLC trailer, so he will be the first main boss in the DLC not the last

[@zenebean]

It would be hilarious but heartbreaking if he was the Godrick and not the Malenia lmao

[@DustDemonTwilight]

@@zenebean he will def not be the malenia of the dlc, possibly the final required boss. however just like malenia, there will be someone optional who is gonna be very hard and not a focus on the trailers.

[@BigggyK]

I mean malenia was in almost all the teaser trailers for elden ring so not sure if they’re sticking to that

[@DustDemonTwilight]

@@BigggyK i mean could be xD, and they usually show the hardest bosses for main game trailer with past titles, it's the dlcs they put at forefront the main boss and hide the " optional super bosses " ... most of the time ^^

[@zenebean]

@DustDemonTwilight I don't expect him to be the optional super boss considering his narrative being very central in the trailer, just in relation to power of bosses we saw in the Elden Ring trailers

[@oup6009]

I think Messmer is the one "Bereft of Light". He is the lord of the Shadow Tree.

[@Technosapien1213]

Shadow tree is basically the erd trees shadow could be like a parallel world where miqewlla is also residing and the impaler rules there

[@Jerrzay]

Maybe this was the reason why Rahdahn was stopping the stars from falling as well. He was afraid for Messmer unearthing.

[@EvergreenxWizard4141]

The old man looks kinda like that statue of a man surrounded by roots and my theory is his spine is the root of the Elden ring from the crucible days but that's just a theory...

[@vanessaboyko1582]

I'm also waiting for the lore theory dive into why Ranni's Dark Moon is in the Land of Shadow...

[@GroundbreakGames]

My son finally wants to play elden ring so I get to guide him through the game and dlc. Couldn’t be more excited y’all. ❤

[@NumberD2000]

Also in the trailer we see a boomerang throwing horse humanoid thing and it really reminds me of the Nuckelavee, a cryptid from Scottish folklore

[@chandusaha4864]

the flames used by messmer seems to be bloodflame, but on the other hand it has that black and golden tinge to it indicating that it may be the flame of destined death and possibly connecting him to the gloam-eyed queen who used to have the power of destined death

[@viktor_v-ughnda_vaudville_476]

I feel like the sword in the guys head that he is “impaled” with looks like the center piece of the elden ring that connects all the other rings or the center of the primordial “crucible” elden ring

[@being_adibahnaf]

‘O Marika, queen eternal, he is your unwanted child’ ‘Mother wouldst thou truly Lordship sanction on one so bereft of life’

[@robertjandejager6758]

Excited to read all of the new item descriptions is exactly the thought I had

[@MelGibsonFan]

I'm hoping some kind of exploration of the dragon cults and the black flame. I'm a bit upset that there wasn't an ending for either.

[@austinking9912]

I like to think it’s a young Rykard with his tiny snake buddy causing mischief

[@KenobiStark1]

Godwyns body is twisted also, his face is upside down and twisted, his mouth isn’t even a mouth anymore, but his arms and body are incredibly skinny, with those braclets. And Messmer has a red version of Godwyns blue gold cloth.

[@enfrax]

Fantastic work, thank you as always! ❤️

[@martonszentkiralyi2251]

I believe he is Marika's monster, one she sent to rule over conquered land, cause suffering. Being "stripped of grace" likely means your tree being burnt, corrupted, but its still very much alive and suffering, erdtree burials are still happening, just its not peacefull but tormenting. That huge burning sun basket is a testament to this, its a body collector and method of torture after death.

[@ChalisterX]

Don’t forget the meaning behind the names. How each child has the same starting letter of one of the parents. If this is a lost/disowned child of Marika that would explain the M. Likely, if he is a child of her and Radagon, could possibly be the first born between them. Gotta remember, the game never truly states how much time passes between events. And much like the Egyptians, the golden order erased anything that didn’t fit their vision.

[@Agentlefox]

Im glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the symbol on the old man looking like Trina.

[@cyanocitta3728]

Messmer is without a doubt a child of Marika. They share the naming tradition where children take same first letter thats so common amongst other lineages. Theres also the butterflies. Aeonian clearly represents melania, whilst the nascent is miquella, why then is there a 3rd smouldering butterfly. One thats a dark red firey colour. Messmer that is seen to weild fire and shares the naming convention may be a hidden 3rd sibling

[@CYRUSX1]

Love your content dude , I was here when the first elden lore dropped and I'll be here till the end

[@square-table-gaming]

Thanks for sticking with us for so long

[@thesavagery6696]

I theorize Messmer is a child of the blood star BKA The Formless Mother. Due to Messmer possibly having Blood flame. I think She tricked Mohg to think that Miquella was in that cocoon. But In reality When Mogh kidnapped Miquella at some point she switched the bodies.

[@thorneto2742]

Miyazaki refers to Messmer as a child of Marika in the Japanese interview

[@thesavagery6696]

@@thorneto2742 oh ok would've been cool if he was the child of the blood star. So he must be the child she was ashamed of somehow

[@KenobiStark1]

But then Melania would have been sitting in the wrong spot that whole time? I know she was out and her knight brought her back to the Haligtree so she was just not aware. But damn this is gonna be a crazy DLC!

[@thorneto2742]

@@thesavagery6696 He has basically everything the Erdtree and Golden Order stands against - Snakes, dragons, fire, etc. I'm guessing he was banished and removed from history for standing against the greater will. Probably a brother of Melenia and Miquella judging from the M name and the red hair. He also sits on the same Throne chair as the rest of the demi-gods in Morgots boss arena.

[@thesavagery6696]

@@KenobiStark1 June need to hurry up and get here!! Lol

[@frankiefromky]

Messmer (according to a translation of an interview with Miazaki) is confirmed to be a demigod offspring of Marika. In the trailer, the voice-over sounds like Messmer is talking to Marika, referring to her as "mother".

[@SIRNOODSALOT]

He looks like he uses dragon communion with those eyes, as a dragon communion boi I love it.

[@turntapeover5749]

The beast looks like Gurranq without the hood and we know he's not dead since he went right back to beastial sanctum after we beat him. And my guess is that Messmer is what happens to Miquella after he hatches from his egg after Mogh's blood corrupted him.

[@evanreynolds5386]

My favorite theroy is that Messmer is the abandoned son of Marika after the golden ordor gained control of everything and he is like the devil of the Urdtree

[@tropezando]

Messmer has gathered all the naughty together like he's trying to reform the One Great.

[@Achy_Bones]

Messmer seems to me to be a Dragon Knight, his armor is very similar and he has the dragon eyes the player can also get.

[@ApplePi3.]

Love the idea that the empyreans' shadows come from the land of shadows.

[@nessajaramillo1277]

Golden haired beast could be some kind of attempt at man-made shadow bound beast.

[@wolfiemuse]

Pats art for this episode is fuckin great. Had a great time chatting with you yesterday, great video! We agree on a lot of things; we’ll just have to see whether From throws us any curveballs!

[@square-table-gaming]

Always a good time talking lore Wolfie

[@wolfiemuse]

@@square-table-gaming also, meant to mention a connection between Melina and Messmer who appear to both be removed from history, Messmer purged the land with flame, and Melina is burned and bodiless. Just throwing that out there

[@-v0n-]

I'm pretty sure there's gonna be something huge about Miquella. He is always depicted as extremely good, kind, all giving. And that's not common in FS games. They usually tend to have some shadows behind them, and the ones that are depicted the nicest are usually the worst, and vice versa. For Miquella, there's just one little thing that lead to this direction: The bewetching branch. It's made of Miquella Lilly and made of unnaloyed gold. And it says "The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection." What if Miquella was, in fact, a horrible being that just used his power to manipulate people? Also, he is trully erudite, and his nature his ambiguous: He created some golden order spells, but also sleep magic, he was said to be sometime a girl, sometime a boy. Miquella is also the guy just created a little erdtree by watering a lil' tree with his blood. He also can charm people, and most importantly, he can just repel Outer Gods themselves. The boy can cure frenzy flame with an unfinished needle. I mean, that's nut. Even Malenia tells that Miquella is the most fearsome of the shardbearers. The Malenia that open her fight with "I have never known defeat" and decided to 1v1 a giant able to stop the stars and nuke places by using his own body as a comet. She finds him fearsome. And why was Mogh so obsessed with him in particular? Why would giving him blood would facilitate his ascension to Godhood? How did nobody just noticed Miquella disapearing? I'm pretty sure he isn't that kind person he is depicted to be and has a bigger role in some major events of the lore. But well, we'll see that in 4 or 5 monthes!

[@Lee-km7qq]

I think Mesmer is Miquella's body, and the blonde boy we see at the end of the trailer is Miquella's spirit, the one everyone calls "St. Trina". Mesmer looks very similar to Malenia, tall, long limbs, red hair, etc. that would also explain why Mesmer gets a collector's edition statue just like Malenia.

[@happy.lil.hooman]

My theory is Marika concieved messmer when she was in shadowlands and somehow greater will coerced her into ditching the crucible and create the golden order casting this world into shadows. Maybe miquella came here to get to know who marika was and why the lands between has so many afficltions.

[@thepyrokitten]

1. Messmer the Impaler has obvious parallels to Vlad the Impaler 2. Dragon motif armor, blood stuff, pretty good parallel to Dracula there too 3. I think Messmer is Miquella (or part of him) like St. Trina is 4. the Land of Shadow is definitely the land of sleep - the tree mirrors the drapes in Marika's bedchamber 5. That eye motif is from the Eye Surcoat I think

[@square-table-gaming]

Messmer is described in the dlc preorder page as having been in the land of shadow when Marika became a god. If that's the case then he was alive well before Miquella was born.

[@aaronjohnson1005]

I’m assuming that based off the character model of Mesmer that he is the one in the egg after the transformation and his “mother” is the blood mother. So it’s no longer Miquela.

[@kyte5648]

The worm monster and it's possible connection to wormfaces could be a nod to deathblight, deathroot and Godwyn.

[@TheOmegaozzy]

From previous patterns, it seems that many connections or relationships come in pairs or even numbers in Elden Ring. For example, two fingers, Morgott/ Mogh, Miquella/Malenia, etc. My theory is he is some how the hidden twin of Goldwyn or one of the children of Renalla

[@kyte5648]

I just noticed the theme with jars in the trailer. We have someone using a jar as weapon and an area with huge hanging jars. As we know, they usually contain dead people. Now combine that with the voice talkink about "In this place blood must spill." and killing your fellows, or something. So the jars might play a role here, or maybe just symbolize the death of many people? But also as far as I know, the jars are supposed to bring the dead closer to the erdtree for reincarnation. So Miquella might use them for his plans. They might not end up being important, but who knows.

[@SaurabhKhandagale]

My personal theory is that Messmer is the guardian of the Land of Shadows, his lines in the trailer suggest he does follow the Golden Order, and only has all the "anti-Golden Order" powers because he mastered them to conquer the Land of Shadows and helped Marika reach Godhood, and because he has those heretical powers didn't have a place in the Lands Between. He also doesn't seem to like Tarnished, and is probably hunting them all. I still think the final boss would be Miquella, and Messmer is simply the boss of the closing of "Act 2", like Morgott was in the game. The final shot in the trailer somehow reminds me of the cutscene where Melina burns the Erdtree, but here Miquella is cleansing the Shadow tree for some reason, probably to take it over.

[@richdurfee2206]

Messmer is a child of Radagon and Marika, cast out to the land of shadow after helping Ranni kill Godwyn the Golden in the night of the black knives. I also feel like the lion headed beast that wields desthblight and lightning in some alterbate version of Morgott or has something to do with the dragons. The castle at the end of the trailer appears to be falling to pieces and drifting to the sky, making me think it is Farum Azula before the Shattering. I believe the woman in the portrait to be a Deathbed Companion, as the later version of the old man appears to be afflicted by Death Blight

[@darkshotgun209]

I'm fully aware of the fact I might be taking it to literally but Mesmer actually shares his title with someone in real life Vlad the Impaler or as we commonly know him today in our movies, myths, and legends Dracula and that might have a connection that the devs used as inspiration aside from his title.

[@Etothe3rdPower]

3:00 That’s one heck of a splinter.

[@vanessaboyko1582]

I have a theory that Mesmer is Miquella's Shadowbound beast. Since Maliketh's name keeps with the naming convention, and Shadows have been considered siblings of their Empyreans, it's possible that Miquella's shadow also has a name that begins with M. The only place this breaks is with Blaidd. To continue, perhaps Miquella also had his Shadow in the Haligtree with him and that's who is in the cocoon in Mohgwyn Palace. We never saw Malenia or Miquella's Shadows in the base game. And Miquella did part ways with the Golden Order - just how far did he part ways? Just what did he find while looking for answers for his sister and step-brother?

[@7HeavenlyDemons]

i truly want to believe that miqualla is messmer but a differant version of him