Elden Ring's Eyes

Elden Ring's New Shadow of the Erdtree DLC features a lot of symbology around the idea of eyes. Some of which you surely have already encountered. But what are the implications of those new pieces of information to the game's overall narrative?
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[@AlexHyena1]

one theme I love that carried over was all these different factions, faiths, followings etc they all hate eachother without mercy, but as soon as the Frenzied Flame enters the scene, they all are in unanimous agreement that this is an evil that cannot be allowed power at any cost

[@mr.ashenfire2624]

It also tells you how efficient they were at quelling it when they were all on the same page. None who felt the madness of Chaos were powerful enough to become Lords. Which implies that it may have been actively snuffed out.

[@dave_marian]

Frenzy is super interesting. I still like that small hint of the flame being yellow, which is not all that far from gold ;)

[@higaiwokeru]

@@dave_marianif the Golden Order represents christianity and Frenzied Flame can be considered the Devil, can we assume that it’s yellow as a way of mockery? Kinda like how 666 is a mockery of the holy trinity?

[@music79075]

​@higaiwokeru probably. Hadn't thought of it like that

[@hongkong8907]

ahhh may chaos take the world MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD

[@Austib_]

A lack of eyes is a common symbol in FromSoft games and often represents an inability to see the full picture or attain one’s full power. It probably means the exact same thing here. While Ranni initially seems like an exception to this rule she “technically” doesnt have any of her eyes truly closed as she sees through her doll’s left eye and her actual right eye.

[@dave_marian]

So Rykard and Radhan are the only two who see everything? I'm am gonna leave Ranni out of this for now, because I think she is in general more complex and a bit of an outlier among the empyreans.

[@StaySafeBruh]

@@dave_marian if you think about it, radahn could be the only two that see the bigger picture. Melania was blinded by her rot and her love for her brother. Miquella was blinded by his idea of perfection order and god hood. Melina is partially distracted by her ambition to destroy the erdtree. Morgott was blinded by his loyalty to the golden order, same could be said for messmer and his loyalty to marika. Mohg was blinded by miquella’s spell and ranni could be blinded by her ambition to bring a new age similar to miquella. You could argue that rykard saw through the lies of the order and that’s why he strayed from grace which lead to him fleeing to volcano manor and consequently turned him into a monster. In radahn’s case, he’s commonly described as one of the most honourable of the demigods, and one of the kindest. This can be seen in his love for his horse leonard and honourable fighting style. Unlike his siblings he had no other ambition apart from battle and potential becoming the Elden lord (much like godfrey who also has both eyes open.) I’m not to sure if he willing became miquella’s consort though because it’s never clearly stated. I’m going to assume he didn’t willingly become his consort due to melania being sent to kill him during the shattering for the sake of miquella’s plan.

[@Austib_]

@@dave_marian Its more that they are completely aware of who they are and know the goal they’re working towards. Rykard is unflinchingly devoted to his ideal of blasphemy and will do ANYTHING to see the Golden Order crumble. Radahn has committed his entire life to battle and shows of strength to the point where, even when he’s basically lobotomized by the scarlet rot, he fights as if it were muscle memory. This isnt to say that they’re perfect people. They’re just in tune with who they are and what their purpose is.

[@franciscoadasilvajr4514]

4:39 considering his Crucible Knights, I wouldn't be surprised if Godfrey kept insisting on getting the omen twins back and Marika didn't liked that attitude very much. And with a lot of enemies defeated, the necessity for Godfrey was over

[@dave_marian]

I talked a lot about Godfrey in another video, but that was just before the DLC.

[@Cyrus-rodn45]

Godfrey was a warrior, he and radahan have a lot in common, godfrey was used for conquests and when that was done then he was no longer needed

[@zayhendrix2617]

Idk I don't see Godfrey as the type of man to ask the same question twice.

[@AppliedGats]

The pattern with missing eyes is all about communion and receiving power from outer gods. Going off of new dlc item description about messmers sister having a vision of fire, I think it’s safe to say Melina, Malenia, Miquella, and Messmer are all empyrean, and all afflicted with a curse/influence of an outer god which changed their eyes. Marikas other kids aren’t empyrian.Take Rennala and Radagons kids. Ranni communed with her dark moon when she shed her flesh and technically lost both eyes. rykard’s communion with his serpent retaining his eyes may mean it’s a false god or a lesser manifestation of messmers true void serpent. Godwyn, Morgott, and mogh are children of marika and Godfrey, mogh found the Formless mother when his horn pierced his eye. Godwyn never intended to become an avatar of death, but having a dead eyed body may be the explanation. Marika and radagon had eye seals just like messmer, we use the soreseal and scarseal in game, also marika is blindfolded and radagon is missing one or both eyes. I think this symbolizes giving up free will for power. The most powerful characters, Melania, Marika, Miquella all end up losing both eyes.

[@SavageEntertainmentYEAH]

I agree becoming a god def requires destroying the physical body and eyes seem to portray that somewhat. Ranni was actually so smart and cunning ngl. All she needed was a consort to become lord for her and help her usher in her will over the world. I’m not sure why miquella didn’t just make Trina become his lord like how marika used radagon. (I’m also assuming empyreans either can split themselves or forcibly become split somehow and can act independently.

[@qaztim11]

@@SavageEntertainmentYEAH Saint trina was questioning miquellas methodology, and he eventually cast her off, in the same area where you find her, you get a few crosses detailing how he shed his doubt and love(Trina), and if you follow her quest she herself asks the player to stop Miquella from ascending, due to her seing godhood as a prison.

[@jooji5465]

wow such a nice descrition, but what god affected the eyes of Melina? i cant naswer that for myself( Messmer with the void serpent, miquella w ith everlonging youth, malenia with scarlet rot, and melina with fire?

[@AppliedGats]

@@jooji5465 if she’s the gloom eyed queen, black flame.

[@jooji5465]

@@AppliedGats ok, that's kinda obvious now that i think about it haha , thanks for response

[@Foogi9000]

6:02 So with the dlc now out we know that Marika is from the Shaman Village in Scadu Altus. The Hornsent raided her village and captured everyone she knew and loved, they then were tortured by the Hornsent and were forced into melding with other prisoners in the jars in a ritual to create saints.

[@dave_marian]

I think this goes even further. I think that Marika also ascended in Enir-Ilim and there is more going on with the gates of divinity and the shamans. But that warrants a separate video XD

[@Foogi9000]

@@dave_marian True

[@fedefyr]

Here's a fun theory: messmer, miquella and Melania are all artificially constructed beings. Marika created them just like the saints were, hence they're all mixes of other creatures. And just like the saints had no eyes, neither do they.

[@Soma-vd3lp]

Eyes very much have significance in the game. I think the main thing is how the player character eyes will change depending on what faction they align with, but also what outer god they are following in my opinion. By completing Varres Questline you get red eyes, that are kind of faint in color. And also by doing dragon communion a couple times. I think the eyes change when you have the frenzied flame as well. And if there’s more let me know. I do believe that the eyes have significance. But I also think it isn’t as simple “They have this colored eye because of this reason” like with Radahn and Rykard, they have Yellow eyes, but that could very much just because they were born from Radagon (Aka Marika) and so eyes of the elden Ring and their great runes take prominence over everything else, so that’s why Rykards eyes haven’t changed. Another thing about Miquella is that it isn’t just him that his eyes closed, Saint Trina does too. Which could mean maybe he’s still sleeping or is constantly in a dream like state despite abandoning that part of him. Radahn noticeably his eyes shine very bright yellow, which I believe could also be a signal of strength, the brighter the eyes the stronger they are. But also his eyes could be like that because he’s under the spell of Miquella and being forced to fight and be his consort. Because we get no dialogue from him which I find suspicious, you can say maybe he just lets his fighting do the talking for him, but you’d think someone like him would at least converse with Miquella, or be agreeing with him at the very least. Even Malenia says something to him in their fight, which we now know what it was. So if Radahn was against it he definitely would be saying something or at least trying to resist, but he can’t. Melina is the only character I wish would’ve got fleshed out more in the dlc, because that eye could definitely mean so many things.

[@dave_marian]

Frenzy has definitely yellow eyes yes!

[@belvont]

on miquelas model, when he is a god, has no grace of gold but instead his silver phantomy cover, buit in the flashback his eyes were pure gold

[@dave_marian]

Unalloyed gold ;) wasn't Miquella's gold always a bit more whiteish? Not sure.

[@SavageEntertainmentYEAH]

I had noticed that he does have a phantom self layered over his physical body much like Rannis fake body, where you can see her (soul self?) layered over her puppet body. This makes miquella have 4 arms which is interesting as ranni has the 4 arm thing too. Wondering what all that means in terms of becoming gods and creating their own orders and such

[@belvont]

@@dave_marian for his body on radahn it is infact unalloyed golds pale color but in the memory he has fully golden eyes

[@geordiejones5618]

Quelaag pointed out that Messmer has to be fairly recent in the timeline since Relanna was willing to ally with him, which has to be AFTER the marriage of Radagon and her sister. The Remembrance of Gaius and some of his armor I believe confirms this further, showing that Messmer was a contemporary of the Carian children. I think Messmer caused the first burning of the Erdtree, and to cover that up, Marika sent him and Gaius on a holy crusade to the Shadow Lands, only for them to realize after their wrathful conquest, that it was really a banishment, hence the beheaded statues of Marika. Somewhere it says that Marika was afraid of Messmer's curse, and he abilities make it clear why, he's a ferocious warrior and perhaps inspiration for Rykard's later actions.

[@curtisfarley6558]

Probably after morgot and mohg were born? Hey messmer, my kids are looking like these horn sent, handle that.

[@dave_marian]

From Gaius descriptions I believe that he was one of the elder children since it says he was a big brother to Radhan. But we are dealing with immortals so it is hard to say how much older.

[@TheRealJohnux]

Rellanas Remembrance reads that she gave up her right as crownprincess to accompany Messmer on his Crusade, which would predate even the War between the Carian Royal Family and the Golden Order. Edit: she abandoned that right to fight by his side, not specifically to be at his side in the Lands of Shadow, but it still stands that Messmer is old enough to predate the War between the Carians and the golden order.

[@Foatizenknechtl]

"which has to be AFTER the marriage of Radagon and her sister" ...and why's that? like your missing the entire point. the proof of your thesis xD

[@TheRealJohnux]

@@Foatizenknechtl he's wrong anyway. Rellanas Remembrance disproves this completly.

[@timelineenjoyer]

From what we learn frenzy burns the soul of the victim away as well as the body, so this is why it’s so reviled. Otherwise I’d agree Marika and the Hornsent were way worse than the Frenzy Flame in terms of brutality

[@CJusticeHappen21]

*SPOILERS* Marika likely hates Omens because her home village in the Hinterlands was ransacked by the Hornsent, the precursors to the Omens. I believe that Marika sought to remove all trace of the Hornsent from the World, and she used her position to manifest that will, which to us appears to be an unjust genocide. But her? She never grew beyond her trauma. She's still that little girl, trying to restore a home that was long lost. I suspect that something similar is happening to Daenerys in ASOIAF. She has devouted so much of her focus to the annihilation of slavery in the world; which many fans of the series see as a positive character trait. Yet anything taken to the extreme will result in horror, even virtue. Because such horror strikes when you cannot see it.

[@dave_marian]

So you are saying GRRM just said: "I don't wanna write an ending to my books, I just let this japanese guy do it in a videogame?" ;)

[@EtheonStarWanderer]

That is not exactly correct, Hornsent aren't the precursors of the Omens, Omens existed in the Hornsent era, and they were persecuted and jailed, as can be seen if you fight the Omen guy that is in one of the pot jails, he is the final boss, and he gives the item that allows you to become his Omen form, and it is in the same item that it says Omens weren't welcome in the Hornsent society. And my guess is because Omens are descendants of mixed relations, between a hornsent and someone that isn't. Granted, the rest you said is correct. Marika hates Omens because Marika probably hates anything slightly related to the Horn focused guys that did such unspeakable things to her people.

[@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf]

@@EtheonStarWandererI’m not 100% sure the lamenter is an omen though

[@nemesisundead83]

My belief, to become a god you must lose your eyes to see the true world, you dont need eyes to see, you see everything as a god lol playing around by hey

[@Snoopy813]

Kind of like Odin

[@dave_marian]

Possible yes :) I think there is a lot more we can look at if we talk about becoming a god.

[@avalokiteshvara113]

Missing the left eye is a sign of divine wisdom or insight/knowledge. I.e Odin

[@ramoraid]

Leda Rune shows miquella's Rune, miquella bestowed his grace upon her and her eyes reflect that.

[@dave_marian]

:)

[@Dngotem]

How do I get her rune? I must have done the quests differently

[@Ak-kd2zt]

The greater will and the crucible aren't mutually exclusive. The crucible are shunned because of what the Hornsent did to Marika and her people in the shaman village it's understandable she'd hate them and purge them. And it's even more tragic that her two sons were born looking like the murderers of her people

[@dave_marian]

absolutely! I kinda think that the Crucible is like... the innate power of the lands, the planet or whatever. And the Greater Will is one power from outside, the cosmos, the stars. But that is a whole separate topic!

[@Ak-kd2zt]

@@dave_marian same The Crucible sounds like the Primordial Soup theorem a lot.

[@PopPhyzzle]

Don't forget the torture mask meant to drive the victim unto terror and despair with blindness.

[@Foatizenknechtl]

huh. thats actually some importan info ig

[@DANBAN119]

It's heavily implied in the dlc that the outer gods didn't come to the lands between because of the shattering or because of the conflicts caused by the golden order, but that they were always there, their influence just was never that large until certain events cause people to take notice of them. Outer gods embody certain aspects of reality and existence, the one bear communion spell sums it up well, basically saying something along the lines of "in order too find a god all you need too do is look for one" basically saying their influence is everywhere. The act of how you can find an outer god is even described in some item descriptions, such as the outer god heirloom, which describes how the blood fiends came to worship the formless mother by gazing upon their dead and wounded kin. Romina came to worship the rot when she looked at the dying bud after the church of the bud was burned by Messmer's forces. No one followed these outer gods yet because their faith and devotion was directed elsewhere, but once those were removed they took a look around and latched onto the first thing they noticed had "divine essence".

[@dave_marian]

I think this is even implied in the base game already. At least the Frenzy Flame and the Dark Moon have been present for a long time.

[@kreadapelu8813]

Radagon’s marriage to Rennala is what allowed Godfrey to defeat the Fire Giants. Rennala invoked a pact with the Trolls who then betrayed the Fire Giants. Once Godfrey was done, Radagon/Marika jointly booted Godfrey and the Tarnished. Godfrey was hounded by the leal hound.

[@dave_marian]

Possible, but there is no reference that it was Caria's intervention that caused the Trolls to rebel against the giants, especially since there are hints that these two wars did not necessarily happen around the same time. Descriptions say that the age of the Erdtree started with Marika's or Godfrey's victory over the giants, so this was probably even before Leyndell itself was established. Biggest hint: The First Church of Marika is in the mountains, only the second church is in Altus. So Marika was prbly in the mountains before she arrived in Leyndell.

[@kreadapelu8813]

Radagon lead a great golden host into Liurnia. If this occurred in the age of the Erdtree, Radagon would have lead the Golden Order into Liurnia. There is a meaningful difference. In the beginning, all opposed the Erdtree. The Carians viewed the Fire Giants as neighbors. That fancy big lift between Liurnia and Altus Plateau has statues of Raya Lucaria Mages and Tree Knights. The lift between Altus Plateau and the Forbidden Lands Features Tree Knights and Fire Giants. The road from Raya Lucaria to the Mountaintops of the Giants predates the Golden Order and demonstrates a level of cooperation that further implies the Carians and Giants worked together. If everyone was against the Erdtree in beginning and everyone was cooperative, a fight with one is a fight against all. The only reason the defeat of the Fire Giants is the beginning of the Age of the Erdtree is because the Flame of Ruin, the only Fire that can burn the Erdtree was now removed from the field. The defeat of the Fire Giants was the end of Godfrey’s Lordship. It was not the Golden Order that Radagon marched into Liurnia with. It was not a war of ideals that was waged. It was territorial aggression, as in, Radagon/Marika was trying to claim territory to establish their Golden Order in. With recent revelations, it seems the Carians were likely the most powerful faction after the Hornsent, before Marika descended into godhood. To win anything, Marika and Godfrey would need to prevent any group from being reinforced by another and make even communication between factions as difficult as possible. I guess… I dunno… it fits the vague timeline. The numbering of the Churches of Marika only creates a timeline for the Cult of Marika converting or otherwise establishing a strong enough following to be able to advertise its presence. Liurnia never fully converted.

[@mada_2]

You ask what was Marika's goal and from what I gathered: create a new order/empire free of the atrocities comitted by the hornsent of Belurat. From what I could understand, the hornsent where rounding up the shamans (Numens) from Marika's village to hack them up and put them in living jars as part of some twisted rituals in order to create "saints". Marika most likely ascended to godhood to get revenge on them. Also explains the absolute hatred the golden order has for anything crucible-related. Marika's goal was kind of the same as Miquella at the beginning: create a world without the despair and suffering caused by the dominating faction. Then she caused untold despair and suffering during her conquest for the lands between as they always do. Hell is paved with good intentions The Hornsent talking NPC tells you that he wants to destroy the golden order for what they did to his people, since he seems to come from the Bonny Village, the one burnt with the butcher's knives wielding NPCs, and he was most likely one of the guys who actually performed the ritual killing of Numen. The one thing I don't get is how did Marika manage to reach Enir Ilim and the gates of divinity. I think her alliance with Godfrey predates her becoming a god. Godfrey has a lion as his beast regent, Serosh, which seems to indicate some kind of relation to the divine lions the hornsent worship, he has 2 hornsent/omen children, and his elite guard is composed of crucible knights. Looks like he has some very close relation to the hornsent, he maybe even originates from the surroundings of Belurat. It's just a guess, but to me it looks like Marika initiated some kind of rebellion among the hornsent to get to the gates of divinity (hence why Hornsent speaks about a "betrayal" to describe Marika's actions, maybe she even was sort of respected among the hornsent, in which case it would have been even easier for her). Maybe she even created the gates herself, with the guidance of metyr or the elden beast, seeing as the gates are made of hundreds of hornsent bodies. At some point she sired Messmer (and Melina, probably), most likely with Radagon, and used his power to cleanse the weakened Hornsent once and for all, then sealed the land of shadows with him keeping watch over her mortal enemies. I kinda got ahead of myself there, and the last part is based on nothing but implications, but it's fun to try to piece out this stuff.

[@PeacefulSerb]

Mohg and Morgot are not omens they are just hornsent. Marika's kids are literally cursed to look like her enemies and the outer gods that are opposing GW. Messmer the snake godskin apostle, Radan the gravity giant, Rykard the Serpent, Ranni the Lunar Witch (mini Rennala) Mohg and Morgot born with aspects of the crucible. Miquella and Malenia incest products more than obvious. Only Godwin was golden! He was the perfect child for her yet the fingers choose others to be emperians. It's actually tragic when you realise that Marika wasn't truly a god ever, what god can't save it's own children? Tragic and fickle like the goldmask explained.

[@jooji5465]

why do every demigod u named exept mohg and morgott are born ith aspect of crucible? for example how does aspect of crucible is shown in Rykard or Radahn or Ranni? becaue mohg and morgott i can understand its letterally on their faces, but others dont have the same looks as those 2 hornsent. If u could naswer would be cool, but i guess i ont really know everything about aspects of the crucible since im asking this haha

[@axxgardian]

Marika didn't knew she would lose Godwyn till she lost it. Also Marika realising that she was not a god after all is what could have led her to shatter the Elden Ring

[@dave_marian]

I think Omen and hornsent are just different names for the same thing.

[@PeacefulSerb]

@@jooji5465 i didn't write that.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Ranni is not Cursed she made herself that way willingly through the destined death ritual she performed on Godwyn, to free herself from the flesh because she was the one in the line to replace Marika. Lunar witch was once Ranni's idol and so she made an doll as a vessel that is similar to Lunar witch which is who she idolized.

[@stephenlucas8836]

Sightlessness seems to be associated with bliss of lamentation, the covering of eyes and crying. Lamenter's Mask have eyes piercing, Lamenting Visage cover eyes to help get past frenzy winter lantern section. Mogh and sorcerers of the thorn of the guilty, have eye pierced and them able to communicate with the formless mother and the blood star.

[@dave_marian]

Interesting idea!

[@simongrahn8179]

it states that "both were as brothers to the lion", dosn't this suggest that messmer was not a "real" brother to radhan. And since it wasn't known that marika and radagon where the same, is it not more likely that messmer parents were marika and godfrey?

[@dave_marian]

Absolutely. It could also refer to Messmer as a half-brother... It's a bit complicated since the same line also mentions Gaius who definitely wasn't related. Nice linguistic trick. Messmer could be a child of Godfrey, yes. Or maybe Marika had him even earlier... We can only speculate at this point.

[@leophoenix1452]

What exactly is Radagon? When dis he step into the picture of the lore... It seems Radagon was not, in the realm of shadow events... He came to be in the lands between...

[@ang3l.0f.kniv3s]

i think it’s a bit of an obvious interpretation but i think the eyes are the windows to the soul (and by extension whatever outer god that might be hitching a ride therein), and the cause and effect on each of the demigods eyes tells a bit of their story: with ranni being half in the doll and half out in the spirit realm, messmer’s coiling serpents gnawing at his kindling, malenia’s scarlet rot affliction stealing everything from her to remake her, st. trina/miquella’s dreaming idealization, and mohg’s omen curse showing him the sacrifice of blood, and even morgotts horns appear to more closely mimic the hornsent and their divine-invoking helmets, as opposed to his brothers more bayle-like horns, aligning with his reverence for the golden order in spite of his treatment under it. the fact that the frenzy flame melts all that divides and inviting it into oneself inevitably burns away one’s eyes is only a fitting end. i have no clue what melina’s eyes are meant to represent but i believe that her opening the gloomy eye in the frenzy flame ending is at the very least symbolic of her determination to kills us as the lord of frenzied flame as she discovers a purpose that requires her to become an active agent once more, rather than the somewhat passive kindling maiden she is for us in most endings

[@amanda-zg5ho]

love lore videos where they actually cover intresting and new topics!!

[@dave_marian]

Thanks! Glad you liked it!

[@nooddles12]

all the bad guys break some kind of capsule to go super saiyan

[@hige1234]

miquella had one eye removed, and removed his other eye on the journey.

[@lolman946]

If Miqella is repeating Marika's journey to godhood; then she would have forsaken her truest love ("my'n other self") Radagon.

[@oldgothfrog]

thanks for putting your thoughts out there on this! it’s always the little details in these games that tell the biggest story :)

[@dave_marian]

Glad you liked it!

[@Unfazed-hn8yf]

I don’t know. Remember that marika purposely took away Godfrey and the tarnished grace and later promised to give it back later so I wouldn’t say she used it as a form of control

[@dave_marian]

It is not quite clear if you just look at the actual descriptions and dialogues, but yes this is definitely one possibility. And it wouldn't even be something that would be out of the question we know Marika is capable of many things. But there are many ways to look at it ;)

[@andrewfornes5320]

I think Messmer and Melina are children of Midra and Marika. Hence they both have Kindling and an affinity for fire.

[@curtisfarley6558]

Eyes are windows to the soul (spirit)

[@dave_marian]

I think it was about 70% of the information we take in as humans comes from our eyes. We are very visual creatures ;) Mabe this is why so much of our culture revolves around seeing, light, etc...

[@mateohogan]

I’m beginning my third journey on a new character and I noticed that Gideon🤢that spell spamming lint licker has eyes and what look like ears with him in his casket

[@dave_marian]

Haha, yeah! look at his banner ;) It's eyes and ears. The symbol of a master of spies.

[@Dngotem]

I think messmers point in is second phase transformation is to show us that marikas children are all carrying power from the frenzied flame.. as a result of the type of power she may have used in the shattering or as a result of her un natural ascension to godhood or if you would say it another way, the absolute chaos that led to a mortal becoming a god

[@Rjw94]

Thanks!

[@dave_marian]

I literally had to google what you just did there! Thanks a lot! Glad you enjoyed the video!

[@teagancombest6049]

Gonna just point towards the item deacriptiona around the Lanentors. And Corhyn, the fire monks, hyetta/irina, lots of characters who ritualistically blind themselves seeking a hugher divinity or find divinity in blindness accidentally.

[@dave_marian]

Hyetta claims her eyesight has been weak since birth (Irina too).

[@shines4031]

radagon was marikas lord as to become a god ne needs a lord. Same as how miquella needed radhan to become a god. Also the affair mentioned in trailer might be birth of mesmer and possibly melina. when marika came to lands between she probably hid radagon's relation to her for some reason.

[@Foatizenknechtl]

13:45 correct me if im wrong but im like 99% sure the madness goes up whenever the saurons eye sees you. it doesnt matter if you look back at it or nah.

[@dave_marian]

Gonna test it out ;)

[@rafsandomierz5313]

As long as they won't see you it won't.

[@BlkZenith]

The horned or mogh and forgot were welcomed with the army of mesmer. Names w/ an M or R are trademark of whom the parents are. Marika and Radagon are female/ male aspects of the same person: Marika to godfrey: godwyn Marika: Mesmer, Malenia, Miquella, Melina, Mogh and Morgott. Radagon: Radahn, Ranni, and Rykard It is interesting to note that Marika has a merchant for twins, where radagon has single children. Twins represent potential diametric concepts. The exception to this is the common mythological trope of patricide, which shows itself in Rykard's blasphemy, though you get to rykard or radagon before rykard can. It is notable, that only Godwyn breaks this pattern as the scion of the golden Lineage, likely because he's, out of all the children of radagon and Marika, likely the only one not flawed. This also explains why metaphor wise why he dies. Perfection has no place to exist. A side note: Godwyn's death explains why Godfrey is present in leyndell, also why inquisitors/knights are basically rampaging the city. Mourning his son, going to see Marika/radagon for justice. Storybeats are important: when the tarnished appears is very relevant to the story at large. Miquella is abducted, melania is retiring or not pursuing her brother (meaning this was likely miquella's plan) even though his subordinates are to find answers out of blind devotion. The golden order shunned omen births, likely because they were imperfect due to godfrey and godwyn, and radagon by extension of the golden order. When godfrey lost the glint, I agree that was why he was sent away. The gold or grace had left him.

[@DavidSmith-ul7vx]

You could blame the double eyes on the carians side. We don't know if ranni true body had 2 eyes or not, and technically with the spectral half she does have 2 eyes

[@dave_marian]

Yeah, Ranni in and of herself is already a very enticing mystery.

[@dscsd9198]

From the DLC, lorewise, we can only learn few major facts about marika; She’s the type to abandon someone once a deed is done She is responsible for countless of deaths in the shadowlands Which leads to my point that she is fearful of someone else becoming a God, that’s why we the tarnished followed marikas orders and killed the new god in the dlc.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Deaths in shadow land are related to village, the jar jail and what happened to the people in the village done by the hornset people which is a place in shadow land she comes from.

[@alyandthecats]

I reallized the giant skeletons with laser eyes always use the same eye Melina keeps closed

[@chrisdepountis3430]

Marika was ruthless and cruel, but her hatred of the omen and the crucible is not that irrational. The hornsent were those who persecuted her people, the shamans putting them unto jars to meld with other peoples bodies slowly degenerating and rotting because they considered them unholy. So likely Marika's reasons for becoming a god were: 1. To remove death from the world so none of ger loved ones would die 2. To enact revenge upon those who slaughtered her people and family. This does not excuse her actions but it does explain why she threw the omen in the sewers and why she discriminated everything with ties to the crucible.

[@chiangmei1265]

it's doesnt matter messmer born before or later, thing is we are certain he's radagon child, since he also have the red hair, the curse of the fire gaint on radagon past down his childern

[@beansnrice321]

I'm surprised you didn't mention nthe black floating eyes in the catacombs that cause deathblight. They seem to be a callback to the Eye of death from Dark Souls 1.

[@Shotzeethegamer]

The flame of frenzy is related to an ancient God, not outer god.

[@fried_knot1802]

It took you ten minutes to say “design decisions or hold different significance for each character” which is basically saying “they either thought about it or didn’t”

[@ZhongliArchonofSwag]

I mean I think it was always pretty obvious that eye color relates to what Outer God you are most aligned with. When you become a Bloody Finger, anointed with the Formless Mothers blood, your eyes turn red, when you partake in Dragon Communion your eyes turn into those of a Dragon and so on. Gold Symbolizes being aligned with Marika, not the Greater Will. Godfrey’s men are Tarnished, but not all Tarnished are Godfrey’s men. They were likely simply the first to start out “Grace given” and then “fall”. Be forsaken by Marika, or Forsake Marika by their own will. Messemer and his knights are there hunting Tarnished, and here he seems to refer to the Hornsent. “Omen” are the result of a curse, likely from the Hornsent, and have not forsaken Marika by their own will, and the truly sad thing there is that it likely means she hadn’t truly forsaken them either. The whole reason she sent Messmer on that crusade may have to wipe out the rest of the Hornsent, to weaken the Crucibles power enough that the Omen curse faded entirely. As for why Godfrey lost faith, he’s a combination of King Arthur and Setanta, or “Cu Chulainn” an Irish hero. Cu Chulainn studied in the “Shadowlands” under his master, and learned her arts. This might be directly related to he and his knights employing bestial aspects in their abilities, namely “The Storm” and “Crucible” aspects, both of which are associated with the Shadowlands. He may well have lost faith in her when she commanded he go on the same crusade Messmer did.

[@dave_marian]

The Cu Chulainn narrative is interesting, I definitely have to read into that one! There is some gold reference connected to the Greater Will, if you look at the Elden Beast which is artistically a combination of gold and the stars. You could say Omen are born from a curse but that is just semantics or cultural differences. On a physical level they are both just people born with horns, influenced prbly by the Crubible. Same thing, different color. There is never any reference that Messmer is hunting Tarnished. There is only a handful of people who might be considered Tarnished in the Shadowlands to begin with - because of Miquella, and contrary to the Lands Between.

[@ZhongliArchonofSwag]

@@dave_marian No I mean I believe the Madam in the Hornsent tower actually says they sent a curse upon Marika and all her kin, and it’s clear that the Omen’s crucible traits are far from the more tamed ones the Hornsent have. Omen horns in most cases are maiming the Omens themselves, with Mohg and Morgott each only having one working eye, and Morgott having filed his horns down on one side just so he could see. It’s pretty clear the Omen curse is truly the curse it’s made out to be. It’s not just a matter of cultural interpretation of the same traits. Even the most revered among the Hornsent barely have more than stubs, and instead wear ornamental helmets to depict larger horns. I doubt very much the Omen are anything natural.

[@jackwellington9863]

A reason why marika probably hated mohg and morgott is probably because during marika's time those born with horns were said to be blessed or something like and they were the ones responsible for massacaring her entire village which is why she had mesmer lead a war against them, or something like that.

[@derex47]

Bro wheres the link to zulis vid

[@dave_marian]

Sry, my ADHD brain forgot to update the description. It's in there now and here those are the videos specifically: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6DMeIlqqKqGg80 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWSldqp_ZZuFobM

[@colemix1852]

6:05 if Godfrey was so disillusioned that all devotion left him why do he and the other tarnished like Gideon eventually stand against you in defense of Marika and her plan for the tarnished to struggle eternally?

[@rafsandomierz5313]

He was brought back and his devotion came back as well.

[@dave_marian]

Do they? I mean they stand in your way since at the point of you burning the Erdtree it is basically a race. Who becomes Elden Lord first? Can't be all the Tarnished at once. I never saw this as a defense of Marika more like "thanks for your work with the fire and all that, but I'm the one getting the throne."

[@dave_marian]

It was always about to end up as a battle royal. Even if some tarnished make alliances in the beginning.

[@herrscherofrule34]

"Ah, Kos, or some say Kosm… Do you hear our prayers? As you once did for the vacuous Rom, grant us eyes, grant us eyes!" "Aaaaaaaaahhhhh majestic the hunter is a hunter even in a dream"

[@dave_marian]

One can never have to many eyes.

[@topcat59]

It makes me believe that the rune items we find throughout the world are actually eyes that contains the grace they cultivated through the strength they gained in their journey.🐱

[@dave_marian]

That would be a lot of eyes carrying me to lvl 200

[@AceTheMadAngel]

The issue with him being a child of Radagon and Renalla is that he specifically curses Marika when he dies and calls her mother. Unless he knew the truth and realized she’s his mother regardless even if he’s a child of Renalla and Radagon.

[@dave_marian]

Did I say Radagon and Renalla in the video? If yes sorry I meant of course a child of Radagon and Marika, like Malenia and Miquella.

[@MaximillionPegasusJ.Crawford]

The link is, in fact, not in the description.

[@dave_marian]

Remedied that! should be in there now! Those are the videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6DMeIlqqKqGg80 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWSldqp_ZZuFobM

[@samuelbrown7466]

I think the correlation between frenzy flame and the elden ring is obvious, frenzy flame is a golden flame that scale with faith is linked to the greater will and by extension the stars and most of all the “image of the greater will” is a voided circle which is the actual form that frenzy takes on, an invisible ember surrounded in golden flames, what does this correlation mean? No clue honestly but somehow physical life imbued with gold can quell frenzy seemingly as hornsent seem to think of holy as the gold order does fire, gold bones and barbs are a tool for cleaning the damned not a healing implement, maybe this is why grace is so important, sense the great caravan did not have grace the madness spread without recourse, which probably started the whole hate for those without grace.

[@dave_marian]

I am getting more and more into the mindset that gold is just generally the power of the land, in various forms: Crucible, Elden Ring...

[@samuelbrown7466]

@@dave_marian from what I can tell the “greater will” is a void from the aftermath which once begat all the stars and the golden ring that links them, gold seems to be the elden rings influence over the land (like any power in game I imagine gold as an outer influence), this is why it appears in all sects as the elden ring is not just some outer influence it’s the formation of order in the world, none are above the elden ring which is both probably why marika wanted the elden ring and why everyone was against her taking it. Gold and holy damage seem to have specifically ceremonial use by the old world, dragons who lived in the very presence of the elden ring had skin and flames of gold and were venerated by the beastfolk for it, they also seem to only have holy implements that are directly tied to the elden ring like the arc spells and the spira spell instead of being implements made of gold like radagons rings of light or gold discus, another idea that supports the elden ring and it’s gold being a purifying and over powering element, the horn sent, blood fiends, rot kindred, and especially the undead, are all weak to holy or “gold” (which would make sense if the only way the old ways served order was as part of death, if gold is a debug tool and undead are a bug…), meaning gold would not be a element of healthy change but instead of purging the none-conforming in the name of “order”, this links to another idea I have of marika being the goddess of the crucible taking on the role of the goddess of “eternal life” which would be her rune, but what’s more is that radagon is of the golden order, not of the order of life or the order of death, where marika is the goddess of an age, radagon is the actual elden ring itself, he is the closest thing their will ever be to a “greater will” in the lands between, so I believe that A. The hair on the Erebus head shows the outer force sealed within (this tracks with a lot of the hair in this game) so radagon having red hair and vise versa means that they really represent the opposite color (this also explains what radagons “curse of their kind” is, a connection to the crucible through marika) and B. Gold is “order” and by extension the “greater will” by extension (the greater will is just the world always having an order and not an actual thing, it more like the will of the universe, which tracks sense it’s the influence of the elden ring which is literally the world) as it is a boon that allows for one to ascend, (this explains why hornsent have physical puppets they call forces into rather then ascending themselves which is reserved for grace given animals like Sarosh) it comes from the stars which are supposedly a tapestry of fate, (which explains the elden ring in its entirety) and gold represents a heaven sent and un-sullied light, not because outer influence doesn’t exist, but because gold is a pure element unalterable by the impure.

[@samuelbrown7466]

@@dave_marian I know I just word walled you, but I said all of that to say, this is probably why marika acted when she did, red gold shows that the influence of death in the lands between was influencing the literal heavens and the purity found within them, and no one would know the state of the stars better then someone born linked to them, this is also why shamans were likely hunted in the first place, by using their flesh they would suffusing gold into the crucible not just increasing its influence over the world, but by extension the elden ring, I believe the rune of death was once a pure black rune, a cumulative heap of all the purged impurity or a “destined death”, this also explains why it’s black flame and not red flame, the flame of death used by the apostasy is not merely a usage of death like malikath or the black knives, it is a boon from one born to the element of death, a pure version of death if you will as it came directly from the source, which we hear about in multiple items

[@JanaSzIsBasicGlitch]

Hey! I am kinda fascinated by eyes! Did you know that people's eye colour slightly changes when they are angry or something? Be careful of people with black eyes. Not spiritual It is hardly believeble even if you see it, if you see but blick of it, tey are either livid or not cool person. So yellow in the eyes are symbolism of "beeing blessed" right? Gold is mostly connected to power, maybe whelt, I would imagine even hope ... It could symbolise anything, but I personally would bet it was loss🤣

[@nemesisundead83]

.....after Godfrey fought the stormlord alone and put rhe giants to the sword rhe grace of gold left his eyes....he didnt partake in the Lenernia wars, two massive battles im sure people were talking about especially after the first war the Golden order was actually stopped by the carien royals, unheard of..... Godfrey lost his will to fight after he lost the ability to see Grace, could be a reason why he didn't attend the war or if he did, he didnt care enough to fight to his full potential, and the Lenernia war (the first one) he was there and they lost, OMG i never thought about that, he was there fighting with them but without the ability to see Grace he lost his will to fight and let Serrosh completely calm him down...lol kinda makes sense

[@nemesisundead83]

Cause we don't know exactly where Godfrey went after the grace of gold left his eyes and before he was hounded from the lands between, could answer one unanswered question I had

[@ALaz502]

​​@@nemesisundead83my money is on land of shadows is "the Badlands" Think about it, its a no-go zone for Golden order faithful. Badlands are usually no-go zones for various reasons. Would also make sense that he used to be a chieftain there since he has so much crucible connection.

[@ramoraid]

I don't think he ever participated in the liurnian wars going by the fact the Storm castle is facing away from the liurnia. Storm castle is where Godfrey ruled limgrave, caelid and weeping peninsula and for it to be facing away from liurnia likely means they reached some sort of accord.

[@dave_marian]

true

[@rafsandomierz5313]

@@ramoraid I come here to propose you a new Honda Accord.

[@Agderi93]

Madness doesn't kill you when it procs. You just take damage and get stunned for 3 secons. You literally have a clip right after it when madness get proced and you didnt die. Death blight though kills you when it procs.

[@TreeeQueen]

13:38 madness doesn’t outright kill you, it simply does a bit of damage and locks you in an animation. deathbight is what kills you

[@ebayaccount675]

Marika is messemers kid, we know that. But who is his dad?

[@dave_marian]

Patches prbly.

[@ebayaccount675]

@@dave_marian that's a good theory, bjt it's clearly Alexander the pot.

[@chaptermasterd9362]

Too much insight

[@dave_marian]

Madman's knowledge

[@doubleback4ammo]

"Thine" not "Thy" before a vowel. 🙂 Otherwise, great video!

[@dave_marian]

Oh thanks! Have to brush up on my old english haha.

[@souleaterhere]

Madness doesn't instakills only steals mana and health.

[@SuperSayajim]

Praise the comment!

[@dave_marian]

And the comment will praise you!

[@arjunadesire1792]

Cool vidéo !

[@arjunadesire1792]

I think eyes in our mythology often serve as sacrifice for power or knowledge. Odin for exemple. There is probably something in east Asia mythology that we don’t know about.

[@dave_marian]

Thanks! Glad you liked it!

[@FFNOJG]

Look it is actually much simpler than all of this man. How does someone tell if someone is blessed by grace? THEIR EYES ARE GOLDEN! that is how people know. tarnished lose their golden eyes. simple as that! Also morgott IS THE ONLY OMEN WITH GOLDEN EYES! HE IS THE GRACE GIVEN OMEN! THE ONLY ONE!

[@imrunningoutofnames2413]

Might just need somone to get vati to meet you

[@dave_marian]

if you look at Zullie's videos the others have gold too ;) but not as strong as Morgott obvsl

[@Derelicit]

Actual lorelet

[@FFNOJG]

@Derelicit WHY would you say that? Grace has A VERY specific gold/yellow in someone's eyes. Just like whenever you take on the frenzied flame your eyes change to show that you are the host of it. same as dragon communion. etc. What is that old saying? "the eyes are the windows to the soul" and elden ring most certainly follows that. Like I said. Grace IS EXTREMELY SPECIFIC. it has a very bright, white mixed/yellow/gold. so yes someone may have yellow eyes (flame of frenzy) but IT IS NOT THE SAME AS THE GOLDEN GRACE!