Male characters and gender views in SSO

[@shadowshearth6068]

Even Red Dead Online allows you to choose your gender... Only the offline story mode locks you into playing Arthur. If this is an MMO that anyone and everyone can play, I believe you should be able to choose a more masculine/male avatar. I also feel like Star Stable has a rather perfect opportunity to present itself as a place that is safe and teaches the value of friendship and communication with young boys who play it, thus breaking a cycle of potentially toxic male behaviors... If you want to make change, that would be a good place to start.

[@Knight108cb]

Guess what people, PREDATORS don't need a male character or to be thought of as included, to hide in SSO and to prey on younger/girl players. And people don't like to acknowledge that there are female predators out there too. Great video.

[@pastelmoon9118]

male predators can groom women to do their dirty work, in those cases there are very organized groups... parents should look into this so they can protect their kids

[@YTRattle]

Difficult subject to tackle! And you did a brilliant job of it! I hope SSO will acknowledge that boys also deserve to be included! Thanks for sharing, Eleanor!

[@xoderota]

as someone who's nonbinary (afab) and has many transmasculine friends who play the game... Yeah. It kinda sucks to start playing the game when you still think you're a girl, but then realize you're trans and be stuck with a game that means so much to you, but you can no longer identify with your character. I would be so happy if they included male characters, or atleast make the player models less female-looking? Idk. But I understand that most players are girls and women, so I guess I get it. Still. I'm really happy the new models are more diverse, or atleast from what I saw, like... Less boobs and stuff. I see my character as less myself and more like an oc, but still. ...and also I was harassed by a girl when I was younger. The "it's only for girls because guys are predatory" argument is so stupid.

[@lajlach.5646]

its like - you can be trans/non and when you play then you controlling avatar, and that avatar is not you, you are in front of PC/MAC so you dont have to worry about "what are you in game" 'couse its only a avatar/character ;)

[@xoderota]

@@alylvrr actually yeah kinda same with the deadname thing. That's another reason why in our club we use nicknames instead of sso names (also because we're kinda close irl and it just makes more sense)

[@nicoach1817]

They'll literally risk ruinng their whole reputation as a company just to save money on salary for their graphic designers. Cute.

[@Mint-nt6ly]

True. They are so greedy when it comes to big updates that sometimes it's unbelievable

[@DenisWisestorm]

Thank you so much for this video, Eleanor! 🙌

[@Hypnos_Sleep]

I’m so sorry for the things you have to go through just for being a guy- Not cool at all

[@bagelcat13]

also... if theyre worried about creeps, they're more likely to play a girl character anyways ! that's what would make them fall for it more :/ (at least speaking from experience as a now adult, but started when I was a kid)

[@WhatInZeWorld]

I’m sorry that happened to you. Creeps will do anything to hide their true selves and then get to you when you’re close enough. I hope you are safer now and recovering well. 🤍

[@sirenserenades]

This topic actually makes me think of stallions and their unjustly reputation. Almost any average horse person will shiver and shake their head when I tell them I have a stallion. “They’re unpredictable!” “They’re disrespectful!” “They’re DANGEROUS”. Those statements couldn’t be more wrong. My stallion is the sweetest most gentle horse I’ve ever met, due to being handled and treated with kindness and for being allowed to be a horse. If you portray them as aggressive beasts who can’t be near other horses and needs to be handled with force, harsh bits, chains, whips, draw reins etc. they will become just that - as a very natural behavioral response to being treated aggressively by the humans. I’d say logically the same thing COULD happen with people, if you are convinced over and over by others that you are a bully, patronizing, predatory or similar, sooner or later it might get to you and you start acting the way people label you as. Now it’s probably not as common as with stallions, where it’s a 100% “success rate” that they will become aggressive if handled aggressively (which any horse or animal will for that matter), but I can’t help but wonder how peaceful and content the community would’ve been if everyone was accepted, truly accepted, and welcomed to be here just as much as anyone else, without judgements or premade assumptions.

[@sleepingserpent]

Well said 💪🏼! The screenshots you showed from the sso mails (from Denis’s Video) are mine. I’m an adult male player and I receive these messages on a daily basis. Getting accused of being a predator simply because of my age and gender. I have yet to see SSO respond to my post about it. I’ve been around this game as a little boy back in 2012-2013. What can I say, I’m dissapointed.

[@eleanornightwalker]

Oh yeah, I realized while editing that at least some of the messages weren't directed at Denis. It's beyond terrible the things people will say to others, completely unprovoked 😳

[@stooglesgoogles7246]

The worst one is the one that claims only gay people can play the game (???) where is the logic in that statement…? I don’t even know how to respond to that…

[@ThatLocalBit]

​@@stooglesgoogles7246im a bit late but even as a gay dude I totally agree.

[@DaniellaMoonstar]

Fantastic video💗I agree with everything you said in the video. I swear every time someone brings up the up “tHiS iS a GaMe FiNaLlY fOr GiRlS” or “iT’s a SaFe PlAcE fOr GiRlS” argument is infuriating because people are acting like there’s no games with female progtagonists when there’s a bunch of games and MMOs including horse games where you can be female. When that horse girl campaign came out, it showed how much they cater to the girls players more than non-binary and boy players and on top of with how sso often responds to people that asked for male characters or people that aren’t girls that asked to be included is just sad. On top of that it’s disgusting how much harassment male players get. It just showed further how SSO has breed this toxicity of no male characters in the game because honestly SSO isn’t inclusive at all. If they were actually inclusive they would acknowledge everyone but they really don’t. I hope one day they wake up and see that people of all genders that play this game need to be heard instead of only focusing on girls. Male and non-binary players deserve just as much to play the game like anyone else💗

[@elecrom_9757]

Imo it has kinda unforunate implications that they are doubling down on the Soulriders themselves never being male when it was a plotpoint that Justin almost became one of the Dark Riders. So Men can be chosen by evil but not by good?

[@kallyywallyy]

I would 100% be on StarStables side with the girlpower argument if they wouldn't have made it an MMO. They can't make an MMO and not allow you to represent yourself when that's literally the point of our character? Also it's (obviously) bullshit that all boys are predators. I've played so many MMOs that included every gender and there were no complications at all (especially in kids games) in fact i've made alot of friends who were really nice!

[@sasharissa0]

i'm only 2 minutes in but I want to say THANK YOU SO MUCH for pointing out the concorde thing, it blows my mind how people insist that gender is important to the story and yet completely overlook this specific part of it. Now that i'm done watching, i'd like to add that I also find it hilarious when they bring up how inclusive they are. The most inclusive thing they did for their players was to add pride bows during the rainbow festival, the rest is just confirming/implying things regarding NPCs. I'm a nb transmasc, who is supposed to play as the main character of the story, yet cannot recreate myself/make up a character i'm comfortable playing as, but "hey, that random ass npc we interact with maybe twice during the whole story is non binary too, look how much we respect and welcome trans people!" For the romantic roleplay part, even if we forget that boys exist for a second, roleplaying as one is a thing? Lesbians are a thing too? This argument is so stupid I don't know if i'm crying or laughing everytime I hear it. Last thing i'll add regarding toxic stereotypes, is that not only do they keep alive the shitty ones for boys, but they also feed the horses=girly one, which is harmful for all genders in different ways. I really hope sso will get their head out of their ass soon and realize that both their players AND the world around them as changed since and that things need to be adjusted accordingly. Only a few of the things they have done these past few years are up to the current standards and it's just a matter of time before it reflects on their profits.

[@Vexis_plays_games]

Tbf not even older girls can play this game anymore. I'm 21 and was called a predator because I liked playing the game. It's only for 4 year olds now. Sometimes the community and the people who run it ruin everything.

[@kellowstone]

I could make a whole video myself on how the character should be GENDERLESS (technically) omg it's so frustrating they didn't think about this and still push their girlboss agenda or whatever.

[@eleanornightwalker]

Oh yeah, definitely rather genderless than only girls. It's better to leave it up to the player to identify their character's gender, rather than to shove it in their faces that "this is a game for girls, your character is a girl, because girls are more important"

[@kellowstone]

@@eleanornightwalkerEXACTLY! I genuinely think categorizing our characters as either male or female doesn't really make sense. I think it would be a good idea to categorize things such as clothes as masculine/feminine (much like The Sims 4) without having to pick a gender. There's no need for that in code whatsoever. They could do soo so many things. Like add pronouns that show on player's profile. This way you are inclusive and progressive. Right now SSO is doing a weird thing where they talk about adding 'non binary and androgynous options' but STILL refuse to fully lean into inclusivity? I struggle to understand that.

[@kellowstone]

Some people might say that in-game lore and canon might be an issue but... not necessarily. See, we already know SSO likes Genshin Impact. And in GI you can play as either a male or female twin so the story looks the same but the roles are swapped based on what you pick BUT the canon-canon outside of the in-game environment assumes that the male twin embarks on the journey of saving his sister which is reflected in the promotional material/ advertisement ect. We could have an option to play as whatever we'd like in-game and SSO could still have a young girl being a "canon" protagonist.

[@eleanornightwalker]

Using the terms masculine and feminine is an amazing idea!

[@Creation_Mode]

@@kellowstone I disagree, genderlessness isn't inclusive either. I'm a woman and I love to be able to play as that, if I were male I'd love to be able to play as a male. In that case it would be better to add non binairy options, but excluding the only biological genders isn't a good idea imo.

[@4nskui]

Sexism doesn't make people treat women or girls better. Marketing the game for "horse girls" only is toxic towards men and transgender people and other types of (non)genders, and it's not ok either. The best riders in the world are actually men, just to point out. But yeah, very good video with legit arguments. Thank you for this one!

[@Xiaueng]

They must think the best riders in the world are men, bc the judges don't give female riders as many points as for men. 😒 The whole game is toxic and not working as a game. So I stopped playing too.

[@nicoach1817]

Transgender is an adjective

[@ABCQTBREB]

transgender people****

[@4nskui]

@@nicoach1817 Sorry english isn't my native language!

[@stooglesgoogles7246]

@@Xiaueng youre right especially about the fact that the game is barely playable. It has such a cool premise but it’s wasted on lazy employees who do nothing but steal money from children by making new horses every three days. I don’t even try to interact with the other players, which isnt saying much because i never do on online games, but watching the chat they just compete with each other over who has poured more money into this sink of a game

[@ryefieldshiningsun]

i feel like sso might be a bit stuck with their "girl game ideology" like we were still in the late 2000s or early 2010s when this game debuted, because back then, i can understand there was probably? still this sort of a taboo or rude stereotype againts girl gamers. but its been over 11 years and the world has changed.

[@akumawasalreadytaken]

as a transmasc boy, who started playing sso while still learning about his gender, it sucks a bit to play as a girl, the pronouns being used as feminine ones and excetera. i’d would really be great if i could choose my looking based on me.

[@its.soren00]

Honestly, there is just so much wrong with Star Stable right now I've been telling myself to stay away from most videos talking about it, bottling up my opinions and just trying to play the game for the graphics and the good people I've met. Male Characters should be added, they have no reason not to, especially with making new characters that are supposed to include everyone. It's disgusting that so many people are so negative on having male characters they go and attack those players, for what, a game originally made for one gender? Another problem I've found with Star Stable is that they don't take feedback from anyone. They didn't fix the Fresians with all the feedback they were given, feedback that they asked for, and they don't actually read criticism or anything. They use bot replies to satisfy their players, not replies that don't even make sense to what their replying to.

[@Mint-nt6ly]

You're so right. I think, that's crazy how this game is toxic, especially for boys. And they need to fix the chat filter really much

[@Oraanu]

If SSO was actually serious about LGBTQ they would have male characters. Even if your main audience is female, some of those females may identify as more masculine and prefer to play as a male character.

[@buckleuphun]

It feels like they use the LGBTQ+ as a way to make money like most companys. "Oh look heres this transgender tail bow, but you can only play as a strictly afab character! But buy star coins anyway, heres a pride month discount!"

[@theronirwin474]

YES! SSO honestly doesn't care about the player base, just money. And it's super sad to see when people start attacking people for speaking up on SSO issues. But just based on the backlash (and disgusting comments) about the body shapes of the new characters, I feel like players would probably not accept it. All because it doesn't fit most stereotypes.

[@ssoforlife]

The whole point of sso is that it's a girl's game. there are lots of other games that boys can play. and the new characters should be getting backlash because they just aren't good. they are trying to make them diverse but have completely failed. all of the weight is in the hips and glutes and there arent enough smaller body types for smaller people. people don't want to be playing with a character much bigger than them irl

[@buckleuphun]

​@@ssoforlife How would you like it if you played as a girl and you were told 'why play this game? just go play a game for girls' (which happens a lot especially in FPS games!) It feels incredibly degrading when someone tells you to stop playing a game that you really like. Btw, SSO is a MMO game and they should have options for a more masculine looking character, especially since they acknowledge men and non-binary people play the game! Also the face that you said 'People dont want to be playing with a character much bigger than them irl' is very hypocritical that it's almost hilarious. Maybe people don't want to be playing with a character that's much smaller than them irl, and maybe people dont want to be playing a character that is a totally different gender then irl? Also the characters are still in beta and wont release till much later, they are probably working on smaller body types aswell.

[@notevengonnatry]

To the argument of them changing the pronouns used for the MC to "they/them", ISTG, newer quests have it changed BACK to "she/her" if I remember it correct. Which infurates me as a non binary person. Plus, the romantic roleplay argument makes no sense, since it's assuming EVERYONE playing SSO is heterosexual, and it will only happen if the opposite gender is added. Surprise, surprise, nope, there's tons of queer people who play SSO, and I'm one of them. So it makes no sense lol

[@eleanornightwalker]

Have they really changed the player pronouns back? Oh wow, they really can't make their minds up, can they 😳

[@theronirwin474]

Probably changed all the non-star rider quests to neutral pronouns so that the game looks more inclusive, and in hopes that more people would pay to continue. And then with most newer quests being aimed at star riders, just didn't care and decided to go back in the bubble.

[@buckleuphun]

Anyway ppl still do romance roleplays and pretend to be males lol. I dont know how they think male characters will change anything.

[@wolfdogamer47439]

Yeah the roleplay 'argument' doesn't hold up at all. As soon as you make your rp character and decide their gender, then that's what matters to the rp. Any info regarding anyone irl becomes obsolete because you're playing as an entire different entity. If people are taking things too far and being creepy, then its up to us to look out for that, report those players to SSO and let others know to look out for them. Ya know, standard internet safety stuff.

[@stabilomadness4703]

Thank you for your video, more people need to share this and use their voice on this topic, maybe the game will change if more people talk about it...

[@sillydogs6712]

I totally agree with this point of view, but what annoys me the most, finally I no longer specify too much that I am a boy since I no longer talk too much into the game, I received at the time full friend request who wanted to become my girlfriend, which was extremely annoying especially after these people complained of having lots of boys who asked to be their girlfriend on a game, please, if anyone 'one of this kind goes by, don't do what you didn't like to be done to you :) It's annoying to just want to have a friend on Star Stable and then the person thinks you want more than friendship when we only want friendship and especially since we had specified that we only wanted friendship, in short it's annoying to be seen as a predator on this game or to be seen as prey that a girl would like to go out with us...

[@swedish-horror]

Right! I'm trans and I try to look more masculine in the game but I can't and it makes me pretty sad

[@ElizaGlatkowski]

Very well done, I guess I was one of those few people who thought it was meant to follow the book story line. But the way you put it has really changed my mind. And I fully agree with everything you said. And it does suck that you can't choose the gender that you want. Also I do fully support boys playing sso. Everyone should be able to enjoy this amazing game. I know that this isn't an online game, but I know pokemon games has always aloud both gender that I've know of. But anyways it would be super cool if sso added male characters into the game. Horses aren't just for girls only, as a irl horseback rider that has been riding for 21 years now. I have seen many times that boys riding horses. And horses are awesome for both genders or any kind of Sexuality or whatever they may choose.

[@happieeyt]

Can’t believe it took youtube this long to suggest this video! I completely agree with this. For a “diverse” game, sso sure are proud to exclude 50% or so of Earth’s population.

[@laurie3607]

@xolugya478true true many games only include male Mc and I rarely see anyone complaining about that lol

[@laurie3607]

@xolugya478 plus you can make male looking characters especially now with the characters having like 0 boobs, short hair (now also costing JorvikShillings) moustaches/beard are all available in game to choose for your character

[@Lumoskor]

@xolugya478@laurie3607 yet still, star stable would have so many more happy players if they just listened and added male models. whats the point in being sexist, and why are you so hellbent on making this game exclusive to a single gender, putting others down? as a transmasc, its pretty damn insulting when you say 'oh, theres short hair, thats enough' no the fuck it aint. thats like a male character game giving options for shoulder length hair saying thats good enough for women, with the male models having a very obvious bulge. god forbid everyone has equal representation in their favourite game without othering anyone or putting a certain group down

[@genevievew.5837]

While I disagree with your stance, I believe you craft a convincing argument here. Thanks for the video!

[@idlydog1232]

As a trans man I have to disagree with you on the "they are willing to adapt their game to fit a nonbinary and trans audience" they absolutely do not do this. They are an extremely transphobic company and this community has harassed me and multiple other trans men before. homophobic slurs aren't censored in some chats, i have been harassed for HOURS for asking for male and trans rep, and sso despite changing the pronouns of the player, still refer to the player with she/her pronouns. in 2021 they didn't even release any mlm or male-oriented pride flags during the rainbow festival and only added them last year 2022 because we called them out on it. SSO is not trans friendly or inclusive in the slightest and i hope you read this comment so you can understand. I am in the process of documenting the transphobia within sso and the harassment i have faced.

[@eleanornightwalker]

Tbh the whole "anti-male" thing greatly affects trans people too, and thise experiences sound horrendous. What I meant by being "willing to adapt to a trans and non-binary audience" was more in terms of our pronouns changing and them wanting to include androgenous body types. I suppose that's more catered towards a non-binary audience though, and not so much trans people. But regardless, what they're doing is contradicting themselves - saying that feminine and androgenous people can represent themselves, but masculine people can not

[@idlydog1232]

@@eleanornightwalker Thank you for clarifying. I don't even think they really give androgynous options with the body types from the beta test. it's all so superficial, i don't even think trans girls/women are represented either. Courtney Summers as a character is literally a trans woman stereotype and idk i'm just very frustrated as someone who's been playing since 2014 or so. it's just kinda crazy because as soon as i started thinking "huh i don't think i'm a girl" i stopped playing sso because i didn't feel like i was even allowed to like or want to play it anymore.

[@Ferindel]

@@idlydog1232 To my knowledge, I don't even recall Courtney Summers being mentioned as trans. I always got the impression she was simply given the same model as Barney, Marley, and Carney because they were themed to all look the same. It's very possible that's just the way she looks due to genetics and she doesn't have to be trans to have those features.

[@idlydog1232]

@@Ferindel no she isn’t trans but the way she looks is a lot of trans women stereotypes. I think in today’s world she can and should be seen as a bad design. I realize this opinion isn’t popular, but that’s how i feel.

[@fructalitet]

Ok I get it star stable was made at the time where girls were made fun of for playing games etc. And that's why they made it a "girl only" game but like it's 2023 girls play as equally as boys so I don't get why they won't add male characters hopefully someday in the future they will

[@lasshysteria]

I've asked SSO before and they said it's a game for girls who love horses yet in the same breath say it's a game for everyone and all are welcome. They also say it'd be hard to change all the text, but I don't care if they call our characters she etc, I just want my preferred body and facial type so I can feel immersed and happy when I'm out riding. I know so many other people feel the same. Also to add on to this, I made my account when I was a kid, I'm now 24. For the love of god let me change my cringe ass name 😂

[@cjsugarrush7911]

tbf the least effort they could put in is just add more boy like haircuts and wow! a male character!

[@Creation_Mode]

I did a little research and found an old interview in which aroudn 08:32 it is said that sso isn't specifically made for girls. I can't share the link here but if you google 'Techstination star stable' then you'll find the audio interview. SSO could just as well add male charcters but they probably won't because of the amount of work. At least that seems to be a reason after I red that article which you shared too from sso about why they won't add male characters. I watched that video from denise wisestorm too, horrifying! So many people thinking it's okay to just treat males like that and sso's attitude isn't helping. I agree that their attitued is toxic, they should be way more neutral towards males. Adding male characters would very much help normalising guys and guys around horses. Would also make it less akward for males whether or not they should say they're male to other players and they would feel more represented. Maybe with a stricter chat system they could prevent the romantic roleplay but people are creative, I mean you could just say orange and cucumber or apple and banana instead 😆 so not sure how that would go, maybe use more moderators?. I'd rather be afraid that the girls would become predatory around the males like now , especially if guys are outnumbered. Also the whole 'ride with us' campaign had me so confused, I was actually just thinking about it today. Like sso what are you trying really, to make or brake the stereotype horse girl?! I guess make. Well I'm glad for the guys that they will have the option in ThatHorseGame, Rein Ravine and Astride.

[@Ferindel]

YESS QUEEN! AGREED! SEXISM CANNOT BE FAUGHT WITH MORE SEXISM! I swear, the devs that think this are complete idiots. And so true, every single horse game these days is already excluding males. It has to stop.

[@damickaanarmire]

I agree with everything that's been said in this video. I honestly didn't realize how bad things were until Denis' video as I don't play very often and I ignore the chat and other players for the most part. I have to say I'm rather disappointed in the community for their behaviour towards guys. Where did this narrative that males are always the problem come from? It's so disgusting. I do hope they come up with a way to include male character but unless whomever is in charge leaves, I don't think that'll happen unless everyone boycotts sso unfortunately

[@becmare]

ngl when they push for lgbt+ pride n shit, but refuse to add a male playable character, feels a little ?? ?? transphobic? they imply that they do see their lgbt playerbase but they ignore the fact that there are nb/trans men that play this game, they might as well only put lgb in their pride posts :/

[@darolon]

I understand what your saying, and I agree agree with you, but I don’t think transphobic is the word. Idk what it is but I understand what you’re saying, it definitely is weird

[@987liss]

I thought it was fair of sso to not wanna add male characters, but after watching this video you've changed my mind. Honestly these are all crushing points

[@gewoonstan]

I'm a male who just started playing star stable, and I am shocked that a game like this still has no option in gender were not in medieval times it's a horse game why should it matter which gender the player has it's just crazy i as a male feel very left behind.

[@keywestbabe2]

10:36 I'm shocked at those comments that Denise Wisestorm got. I really would have thought that we would be passed stuff like that now. And the subtle not so subtle transphobia "its fine if you're trans but not when ur actually a guy" actual comedy right there ladies and gents

[@ilsejustme303]

if i see how long it takes them to make a new girl character for the game and they have to make a boy in different shapes aswel.... it will be another 2 years before we will get new characters. they are so slow! they where talking about breeding but it will not be in game for sure for atleast 3 years

[@maiahendriks6354]

I was walking in New Hillcrest and then I saw a person standing like the Vala statue in Silverglade and Valedale. She is, I believe, next to the mailbox were the old horses are sold. Het name is Silencia, but we never had a quest with her. My theorie is that she is a Vala and she is a kind of spy that live among the humans and the Soul Riders!

[@maiahendriks6354]

Her*

[@eleanornightwalker]

We do have quests with her - maybe you haven't come that far in the GED questline?

[@stormy1303]

Okay, I randomly decided to look on your channel after a very long time... and found THE video that I needed about SSO and its gender views. I'm a trans guy who likes horses and rides horses in real life, and I found this game way before I found out about my gender identity. At first, I felt so connected to the character I play as, I was so happy that I found this online game about horses and magic... but then I generally... became disinterested in the game, due to a lot of different reasons, and began playing it a lot less. And, every time I logged in after I stopped feeling the way I did before about the game, I no longer felt the same about my player character either. This was no longer a safe space I could escape into. I started feeling like neither the company nor the playerbase actually wants me here. My best friend is a cis guy who downloaded the game as well, and he also said that he's disappointed about the lack of a male character option in the game. I think that the thing that made me feel way less included in the game was the horse girl video. And the replies from the company that you showed here... "reclaim the term 'horse girl'"... well, I do ride horses, but I'm not a girl. So why should I call myself a "horse girl"? Why should ANY guy who likes horses be a "horse girl" in Star Stable's eyes? They really are just trying to erase sexism using sexism. About the community itself, I've seen so many people assuming my gender when I sent a message into the chat of the game, using the wrong pronouns for me every single time... and oftentimes I don't even correct them, I just... stop writing in the chat. Just because I don't want to end up being bombarded with any of these harmful stereotypes. I've seen some more messages in the chat excluding male players... and that's all because we just can't PLAY as one. And, as you said: this game has character customization. Most of my favourite games have protagonists that are their own character, and that you cannot change in any major way (for example- Frisk from Undertale, Kris from Deltarune, Chell from Portal, Gordon Freeman from Half Life... and these are just some of the games I like that have a character you can't customize. No matter what gender you are, you play as these characters.. because they are all their own, separate characters.) But Star Stable chose the route of making a customizable character. And yes, with the new character should come the option of making your character look gender neutral... but why not just add male characters? I, and many others, use he/him pronouns. Why can't we use them in the game as well? I like horses, and despite its problems, SSO still feels special to me, because it fully got me into the realm of playing video games. Were it not for this game, I don't think I'd have ever gotten any of the games I have now. And, watching videos about this game (your videos, specifically) was actually what made me start learning English. So this game kickstarted a lot of the things that were literally life changing for me. So I still play the game, despite how mediocre I find it being. I personally think that where they really missed the chance was when Concorde reincarnated from a stallion to a female foal. Seriously, they said that the gender doesn't matter, but the soul does... they had a chance to introduce male characters right there, and they missed it. I don't know why. Anyways, I just wanted to say one more thing. I doubt you'll see this, Eleanor Nightwalker, but I genuinely wanted to thank you for making your videos. They literally taught me English, and without them I probably wouldn't be able to even type up this whole thing, ever. So... thank you. This video was amazing, and I'm so glad I found it. That's all.

[@eleanornightwalker]

You know, this is the kind of comment that inspires me to continue making content. It's so heartwarming to hear about the impact my videos have on some people, so thank you for your kind words ❤️ I hope there will be a day where you feel happy and welcomed in the game and community, or that you find new ones where you do

[@stormy1303]

​ @eleanornightwalker I'm genuinely speechless right now. I'm so happy you replied to me... I remember the time way back before I made my own KZbin channel and before I downloaded the game, when I watched your videos in my room, with the autogenerated subtitles in my native language being the only thing that helped me understand your theories... and as I watched more and more videos, I started to recognize various words and sentences, until the day when I finally understood the meaning fully without subtitles. Your videos have helped me learn a whole new language, and helped me find SSO which was my gateway to gaming as a whole... and now, I see a reply from you on my comment? This is so cool. I'm also hoping that I'll be able to feel a bit more welcome in the game, maybe by some miracle the character update will change some of that... but due to playing Star Stable, I found various games whose communities make me feel like I belong there. And while I still play SSO, I found more games that I prefer and where I don't feel out of place just because of not being able to play as... well, myself. Your reply really made my day, thank you so much

[@Sam.springstar]

The first argument which -as you said- is used by far the most doesn't hold up anymore because star stable has been changing a lot of things to make it more inclusive to other genders except for the characters themselves. I think most people don't want it simply because they don't want something to change perhaps?

[@nyve5740]

For me sso got too political, i absolutely agree with your takes. I really love how honest you are, actually what you said is being consideres now "controversial". I miss good, old, cozy feeling sso had 🐴

[@paulaunger3061]

I'm a bit late to this conversation - it's six months since you posted it - but I think the biggest problem with SSO is it's so badly planned. I don't think the SSO team really thought about how any part of this game was going to be an MMORPG and they've tried to force a limited, offline, story game - about a sisterhood of four girls - into a format which doesn't support it. I mean, if the player is supposed to be the chosen one, why can you see all the other players too? We're all the chosenn one! I'd already lost interest in the game by the time the avatar was changed, but after a few weeks away, I thought I'd come back with a brand new character and try a different method. And what I've done is ignore the main storyline. And I''ve had a great game! One which doesn't mean the player character has to be female - the really could be male, female or trans. The problem is when you get into the main questline. The story, even as far as we can see it so far, falls apart as soon as you allow the Fifth Rider to be male: because Evergray wanted to be a Soul Rider (he specifically says so shortly after he arrives). If SSO is going to allow a male Fifth Rider, then they'll have to find a way to explain why a male druid couldn't be a soul rider (Everygray and Avalon, champions of the Sun and Moon respectively, could have filled in the spaces left when the previous sisterhood collapsed.... except the soul riders have to be female.... why??) If they want it to be a game for girls, they need to go back to making it a limited, fully complete, single-player game where you're playing a female character. And then they could make the MMORPG a fully inclusive horse riding game without all the mystical lore. You could still have GED as the big bad, you could still have the space itself coloured in by the Star Stable lore from the SS Legacy - but I think it would work far better (I speak from the simple experience of having played it that way for about six weeks now). But I agree absolutely about the polical underpinnings of the game. And it's very wrong to impose all that on a player base increasingly styled towards younger players (to the point where the mainline story is a bit too scary and adult for them, if some of the player videos I've watched recently are anytihng to go by). This perception that horses are somehow a female interest is also a weird one - how many female jockeys are there?? Throughout history, how many war horses? In the real world, horses have always been associated with men. Great video, btw. There's something quite paternalistic and dictatorial about SSO generally, I think. Watching player videos over the last few months, it's a continual theme on how much SSO asks for player feedback, then ignores it completely to put out the experience that they had decided the players should have. Quite different to Dungeons and Dragons! I want to give that one a go... quite the opposite in terms of player autonomy and agency, from what I've read.

[@nicoach1817]

This is a great example of what feminism is NOT

[@peachyarts386]

You are literally spitting the words right out of my mouth… I started playing the game a bit last year and for context I am a girl and am soon 18 so… mature I guess🤷‍♀️ but I always felt the lack of male option for a character specially now in 2024 as it is when I am writing this is just like ‘outdated’ we are supposed to be breaking the gender wars but we are making new ones instead… kinda wanna give my opinion to all of these arguments brought up because I can: Story: Like you said it literally uses they/them pronouns now… while sure originally about a girl it can very easily be changed to be a story about anyone… no matter the gender… No female representation: Like you said a flat out lie… there are TONS of female representation in games all over the place… To play something else: that’s basically telling boys to not like horses… like do these people not hear themselves? Safe space: to be honest it basically just says that they think boys and men are predators which is a very dangerous title to give an entire gender… having male representation isn’t gonna like make the game not safe anymore cause like it would already not be safe then cause boys can still play it- just not as a male character… A lot of work: no.. I don’t think it is… honestly with doing this new model they have now… they can easily just use the same models but make them less curvy and then boom already looks like a guys body, just bring in the hips a bit and flatten the chest and easy body… besides it would be great for women who also have a more masculine body type… To me… adding a male character option would honestly make the game even more popular… and you know make them more money which isn’t that what companies want? From my perspective… it does seem like the only reason they won’t is because of the like radical feminist movement that makes it so men are seen as dangerous when saying that in itself is a dangerous thing to do… and it further sparks more gender devision than what already exists… I can’t stress this enough but for society to end our gender wars we need to address both sides… by making a game that should be available for anyone only a girls game… is not helping in the slightest…

[@FrillyDisaster]

I do partially agree with what your saying: boys shouldn’t feel unwelcome by the sso community simply for being a guy, that’s just wrong and pretty stupid. But to be honest the only people complaining about sso having no male characters are people from the woke tik tok mob lol. There’s nothing wrong with sso being a game about a girl on horseback and honestly this is just sso trying to appeal to the woke mob. Boys that actually enjoy sso (like Denise) don’t care that much about male characters and know that a pixel game doesn’t define them.

[@lunariedawn]

Truthfully, I'm a bit on both sides of the argument. I don't mind at all that guys play the game and I do feel like they deserve to have their own avatar/model in the game. I've even had a great couple of sso friends who are boys irl. However, I also like that this game is meant to be for girls and about female empowerment(even if in later years it has turned from being positive to rather negative thanks to both the fandom and those working/higher ups of the game). As someone who also plays Genshin and Star Rail, I like that this game is focused on girls and women. While both of these other two games have options for playing either a male or a female, it is very clear that the marketing is catered towards men - its even gone as far as players saying the only ones who pick the female option are men who simps for the female version. Which is not at all true.. but that is one of their dumb arguments. And the game developers clearly have a bias towards the male option, often leaving the female out of promotional materials (which could also become a problem for Star Stable if they were to have both genders. Not to say they can't, there is definitely ways to work around it.) I'm actually commenting this on the day the new character models were released. I am pleasantly surprised with how good things are (especially feeling this because of the negative backlash). While yes, there are things that needs perfecting, it's still pretty good. And there is sort of the same situation as with this. Lots of fatphobia surrounding the new models (and lots of people disguising it as their opinions or something innocent) - at least from what I've seen in game and on instagram. It seems no one wants male models and neither more natural/inclusive models. Everyone wants the super thin unrealistic model we had before.. which is truthfully just sad.

[@che.rry_k1sses]

i agree w ur vid but like,,,, isnt the inclusion of GED kinda a criticism of the capitalist corporations? at least to a satirical point and dumbed down for kids; wouldnt that mean sso was always political? edit: i agree w your point tho that is it is just politics for brownie points..... if they were really a so called feminist game they would understand that guys can also like thinks commonly associated w girls as well as girls liking stuff associated w boys

[@Cerise--]

I don't think not being able to play a male character is anything near sexism or oppression (in the sense those are systemic issues) but I do agree including boys into games and activities marketed "towards girls" is a good thing to break away from this mentality that certain things are for boys/girls only

[@aaron-huntermielke9888]

Thank you

[@Hypnos_Sleep]

They act like guys who like horses aren’t shamed and called gay (which isn’t a bad thing at all ❤)

[@marangelismcmanus6659]

Well said Eleanor.

[@justmoony243]

i think that they should offer selections for making more masculine looking characters and just make any dialogue for the game gender neutral , at least until they have the time to make complete new male characters and change dialogue to match each character

[@hxezmad7023]

Hi we’re sso, you can only be a girl in this game but you as an 18 year old female won’t have the option to have curves because that sets body standards to other genders

[@larahackabb106]

I feel like with the new bodies that have no woman shape and new hairstyles you'd be able to look as a male. I think that's the reason why they didn't shape the new bodies at all, so you can go from female to male as you please... very bad because we should have the two body types

[@Avery-ul7gh]

Very good point, though i feel the girl players would make fun of boy players if they bought "girly" horses for example horses that are sparkly or bright colors but I definitely agree with you.

[@Ferindel]

Also Imagine if Red Dead Online was like this where you were only able to make a male character because they didn't want "girls being predators" to them. Or "A safe space for boys only to enjoy" That would be so horribly sexist and Rockstar would probably get in huge trouble. So WHY is this anywhere near okay for Star Stable to do it?

[@Ferindel]

@i love pasta Did you even watch the video? I suggest watching at 5:51 Saying that women need a safe space from guys is basically implying that men are automatically all predatory which is simply not true and hurtful to male stereotypes. You are enforcing the most toxic parts of feminism in this argument.

[@jasonc1376]

I'm a straight guy who loves playing SSO. I just wanted to give my views on this subject. When I first signed up to play SSO, I did not like the idea of not having a gender choice. It is the only MMO that I know about where you don't have a choice. I decided rather than trying to create a boyish appearing avatar, that I would rather create a pretty girl that I like the appearance of. So I did and started playing. I was not even sure at first if I would really like it, but I sure do love it. I'm not really the gamer type, but I love that casual game play it provides. Also I just love the story that the main quests unlock. It's a real adventure for me and the scenes that get unlocked are awesome. I keep silent to other players about my true gender, and I have come to appreciate just being equal in the game. I like being on equal terms. It's really kind of nice to not be sought after nor rejected by others because of gender. If someone friends me and likes to hang out sometimes, it's only because of my personality and nothing else. I really come to appreciate that. You could say that SSO has forced me to be deceptive, but It's not like I'm hitting on anyone or being predatory in any way. I'm just one of the girls as far as anyone is concerned. Now, even though they maybe should allow male avatars. I would rather they not. In my opinion, it would really change the atmosphere in SSO a whole lot. I'm sure there must be some existence of romance in SSO, even though I have not witnessed it personally. Still I believe there would be drama in SSO if you had a bunch of girls chasing boys or vice-versa. I believe it would divert many players from quests, club, and race activities. I believe it would be a distraction. I truly believe it's better off to stay as it is. After all, guys can still play if they prefer this type of gaming as I do. If they truly just love the gaming experience as I do, it should not be a problem. Be a girl in game and keep your mouth shut about it. A don't ask, don't tell policy is appropriate here.

[@Lumoskor]

if guys like us that play the game shut our mouths and dont talk, then whats really going to change if there were to be male models? if kids want to create alternate accounts for roleplay, so be it. id much prefer to just block anyone that tries hitting on me than be forced to play a character of a gender i cant even imagine myself as

[@jasonc1376]

@@Lumoskor If you are not a biological straight guy, then you do not share the same perspective as I do. You have openly indicated that you are not. That is not to say that you don't have an opinion. Now maybe you missed this quote in my comment, "Now, even though they maybe should allow male avatars, I would rather they not." To further clarify I'm saying in all fairness they should, but I prefer they not.

[@squeaksp3324]

I wish I could give a thumbs up to a video more than once

[@Donginssii]

I can't decide who are the worse. The sso community, or the genshin fandom

[@itsunicornfan77_64]

bro i cant wait for the new horse games to come out so we can all leave star stable behind.

[@americanshowtips]

Look..its simple. The story line is about a girl, and the company made the game with woman empowerment in mind. Just because boys aren't included doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Red Dead has male characters, go play that game if you're so upset about it. (Not talking to Eleanor, just people in general who support this argument.) I mean, SSO is never going to add that option. It's the whole base of the game, basically. And, in regards of them changing to using primarly they/them pronouns in reference to our characters, it's because some real women use they/them pronouns.

[@leahnoblerider9542]

amazing point. however, sso will not change anything unless it bring more money to them. with revenue over 18 million a year, I think they could double this by simply adding male characters.. since money is all they are after in the end. 🤷‍♀

[@artbyfinn7757]

3:14 how about the highest rated game in steam, Portal (2)? xd

[@valkaUlf]

Thank you so much for this,i hope they hear you :c

[@valkaUlf]

horses is for everyone, this touch my heart :'3

[@mayap_66]

YES! Thank you for talking about this.

[@salemopossum7274]

As a trans guy thank you for this video

[@nerddookie]

you should totally make a podcast

[@yummcake]

I stopped playing the game entirely because of how political it has gotten. And even the stuff they are promoting is against my religion.

[@ABCQTBREB]

what are they promoting?

[@yummcake]

@Astrid Vermeulen stuff with LGBTQ. Which, I don't care if a person is gay it's not my business, but it's durimg pride month that it's shoved down my throat constantly

[@ABCQTBREB]

@@yummcake if you don't care, just ignore it

[@yummcake]

@Astrid Vermeulen it's kinda hard when it's in your face all the time, especially nowadays.

[@ABCQTBREB]

@@yummcake That is because LGBT's are people who also wanna see themselves in modern media just like straight people, and tbh its not something you come agross in your everyday life if you're not looking for it

[@galaxyrodentdraws3026]

As a ftm I'd really love male charas to be added. Afterall the character we are playing is supposed to represent ourselves and as much as it was possible for me when I was younger and still identified as a girl, now there's not even a hairstyle that would suit me. And I'm sure Im not the only one who feels that way. I understand that this was a problem before, since as you said, sso was a game about a girl, but things change right? Not only the game does but the audience too and since they already reffere to the player as 'they' why not go any further?

[@darkcryscream2201]

Came from Denis channel. I agree with this fully. I probably won't ever play this but only know of it cause of Denis. I'm someone who can play red dead redemption 1 and 2 for hours. I'm a woman granted this game ain't my cup of tea. I like watching denis videos. I hope they make this for this game. Then you won't have those gate keepers trying to ruin something even more. Those gate keepers are keeping this game from being equal for all who want to play it.

[@waffleempress5772]

I could easily buy the "Soul Riders can only be girls" narrative (my favorite manga and anime are Claymore, where warriors being strictly female is explained and a part of the lore) if it were just Starshine Legacy. SSO is an mmo, and any mmo will allow you to customize their character. Any. I've played FFXIV for a while, and I never felt oppressed or excluded just because I happened to be a woman. Same with any other mmo I played. And I do not see a problem with playing as a male character if the game's story demands it. I know a lot of great male protagonists: Cloud Strife, Sora, MCs in Persona, Geralt, the list goes on. My enjoyment does not depend on me being represented in every game I play. Not everything has to be about me, let alone about my gender. What I need is a good story, give me that and I will play it. And honestly, assuming that every guy is a predator is a dangerous, harmful notion that promotes sexism and discrimination, not to mention ridiculous stereotypes. If a predator wants to play a game, they will. Period. Instead of assuming that every man is equally dangerous, they should deal with each case individually instead of labeling the entire gender. And I agree. It is a game for kids. Guess how old I was when I played Starshine Legacy? I was 13. I did not care about politics. I do agree, games should be safe environments for people regardless of their sexualities and gender, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's almost as if they don't understand their target audience.

[@stalkpaw9917]

I have to say its not fair at all.

[@Snekysnitch]

7:27 maybe they could make all charecters gender neutral.maybe you could customise your charecter without any gender option and insted just chose if you want to be more masculine or femenime. I think that would be easier for the game developers

[@wolfdogamer47439]

Yeah, I always thought if we could just pick a body type we like (providing they will include a more diverse models than we have now) and our preferred pronouns, that would be it. No blaring MALE OR FEMALE screen, just pick a model and pronouns and off you go.

[@Snekysnitch]

@@wolfdogamer47439 fr. Then it would be more personal

[@wolfdogamer47439]

@@Snekysnitch Yeah, exactly! Giving players choices and control over those choices (aka enabling them to personalize their gaming experience) immediately makes the game more immersive and enjoyable. It shows the company cares about making the gaming experience better for players with different gaming styles/preferences (within that genre of game, ofc).

[@daginganinja6916]

Late to this video but you have completely changed my mind on my two arguments! Especially since my arguments worked for the old sso, the old gaming world and not to the modernisation of so many current mmos

[@wolfgirlsurvivor925]

I want male characters... in starstable how are you being inclusive if your cutting out a gender or other options?.... your not being inclusive. They are just being as toxic as male gamers for just making it one gender 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️. Also there is a toxic ideas about boys liking horses.. star Stable could change this but nope plus the harassment men/boys. Get on star stable and it doesn't get taken care of is ridiculous and so hyprictucal thinking especially if this was in reverse... A man would be crucified and much more... But men are getting this and crickets from star stable support on harassment on men. That and excluding men/boys in the game its wrong...

[@HomoSapiens0605]

I really love and respect your channel, but you did not convince me. Yes, you have a good argument, but the main problem is that Star Stable Online is the most popular MMORPG about horses. And it just so happened that it is based on games with a plot and it was its creators who decided to support the girls. I will try not to pay attention to male characters if they are added out of respect for Denise, but for some reason when men are not added to the game, it is successful sexism, and when women are not added, then "Eeeew, feminists, get out of the gaming industry." I dare say that often when women are added to games, they are often sexualized in the same fighting games. Tell me, is there a game as popular as Star Stable? With quests, updates, just everything, that's what you understand, what makes Star Stable special. I think not. I care about the plot anyway. Now I feel that it is like the soil on which new plants grow... Yeah, I'm ready for the tomatoes. But I am absolutely against any trans shit in this game and I have already written about it in support. A woman or a man can only be born. Trannies are a source of sexism, not an innocent game. Trans men are just women with crippled genitals, just like trans women are men with an equipped penis. Throw your tomatoes at me. I fully support LGB, but only without T. And it is not necessary to analyze the sex change in a game in which there are so many children. I am a very tolerant person and in my country I would be hounded for my views, but don't shove your gender shit into a game in which there are so many children. Play as a girl, if it hurts so much, play as a boy, but read more about those you protect. Yes, call me terf, I just expressed my opinion. I have the right. This is a game about horses, not about the appearance of genitals. In their Instagram, they rather supported everyone so as not to get a ton of shit on their heads. I absolutely don't care who does what to themselves, but don't be a propagandist of sexism. And find out what gender socialization is :) Thank God at least in the UK people are smart enough not to put trans "women" with non-operated organs in prison with women #SexNotGender

[@chibi-chan7608]

Thank you Eleanor for speaking up. As a nonbinary person I still don't feel like I'm rappresented well in the game, but I can't even immagine the frustration and sadness that boys who play it must feel...I'm kind of disappointed at Star Stable (and a part of the community as well) for this situation and I agree that Star Stable is beeing super incoherent...I hope they'll add more masculine options for the carachters but I don't have much hope left..

[@ummsaida]

11:40 but game makers are not responsible for what players think and od imo

[@karin.007]

im so sad that they changed the iconic are you that girl line

[@Choucheeeenn]

I would be interested to know what you think of non-mixity in activism.

[@eleanornightwalker]

I can't say I know what that is 🤔 care to elaborate?

[@lajlach.5646]

I know so many boys who are plaing sso and they dont care about any of that arguments, they just play and like to JUST play - in my team we play many games were you can be only a female/male and yes 1 of boys I know is plaing sometimes on my acount - and when he just want to play with random players in wild horses/rp/soul riders vs dark riders or angels vs demons - his first message is: Hellooo~ I'm boy so dont get mad if I dont understand some "girls jokes" if I disturb you, write to me, I'll leave. And 80% of players are like: no, no, no! you are not, stay! /wait realy? cool /you are? nice! I never seen boy plaing in girls game XD /oh are you? do you know that player (game nick) I heard that acount is boy too /or: REALLY?! this will be funny XD can you be my bro? /I'm plaing as stalion, can we be siblings? Sometimes other players are like: I'm boy too! Nice! /oh really? do you have your acount or are you plaing on girfrend acount? he even got a warning from 2 girls to dont play with someone 'couse she is sooo much mean to boys and we met her - and yes, she was really mean.... like 10% players dont care about that the he is a boy, yes he got some hate and some wierd questions but he just use his maind and didnt care about that onetime 1 girl even wrote: you are very brave if you have no problem admitting it :) my boyfriend is plaing too, wana meet him? So I think it depends more on who he ran into and how he behaved rather than who he is - I'm (very) old sso veteran and I see that the in my country was and still is many boys who just play 'couse they like that game, so there is a bigger problem with ☣️☢️/stupid people (+people who only have sex/18+ things im head) than with boys plaing sso - I meet some girls like that and they were traing too be "bad boys" and the rest of serwer started to hate them and reall boys So not only game creators are doing wierd things but players are doing that too

[@eleanordiamondforest3589]

Wonderfully said!❤

[@magdalena-ug2sl]

I like sso with it's only female characters. And I don't think it's necessarily sexist. Sso choose for the characters to be female, in the same way red dead redemption picked male and tomb raider picked female. That doesn't mean only woman are allowed to play, everyone is welcome. I for one really enjoy the fact that it scares away some people, because the people that are so worried about playing a feminine character are usually not the ones that really align with star stable's value's. I also really like that this makes it so that there is no them vs us mentality in sso regarding gender. There are no 'only men' clubs. There is no girls vs boys competition. And you are still able to look male if you really want to.

[@ilsejustme303]

if they want male characters they need to fix there chat..... it is already wild west there but with male characters i think it will get worse. that's my only piont (they need to fix it even if they never add male characters anyway)

[@buckleuphun]

I dont understand how male characters will make the chat worse, please explain.

[@Thatsasecret]

Hello,this is such a interesting topic, and I totally agree that male characters would be really interesting, but the main point that worries me a little, would be the romantic roleplay part. I know you already discussed this here, but my main issue isn’t the roleplay, but more the „ingame boyfriend“. I am just scared that if there were male players, there would be kids trying to find online relationships, which could lead to starstable becoming a more dangerous place. Now I do think, that by not adding a „make boyfriend/Girlfriend“ option, this problem could be minimized, but it still kind of worries me. I do think that male characters would be a great addition to the game, and that they definitely deserve more representation in his Gerne, but I also understand the worries that some people have.

[@YTRattle]

From my experience, those individuals, whether there are male avatars or not, will find their way in there and they WILL engage in their unsavory conduct. They don't give a damn about how they look, they just want to do what they want.

[@Thatsasecret]

@@YTRattle Yeah, I do agree that they always find a way, I just think it would be a lot easier for them. I think it’s likely that children getting into online relationships would become a thing eventually, which could then become dangerous.

[@shadowshearth6068]

I also wanted to add my experience as someone who plays a vast amount of MMOs: The gender of an avatar is never a guarantee of who you are speaking with on the other end of an anonymous interaction. There are plenty of adults that already play Star Stable... It is why they have so many (sometimes ridiculous) protections against sharing phone numbers and the words that you use in game. I already see people who find ways around those protections... and if that is the major concern here, then that sounds like we all need to sit down and have a discussion about the responsibility of parents to monitor their children's online interactions and internet safety. Now, I will agree with you that I don't think it should go beyond choosing a more masculine / feminine presenting avatar. We don't need boyfriend / girlfriend or husband / wife relationship tags like some more mature MMOs offer... but just having masculine presenting avatars isn't going to suddenly increase the amount of inappropriate behaviors you can encounter in games like this.

[@Thatsasecret]

@@shadowshearth6068 Yes that Is absolutely true, I also think that excluding male characters isn’t a solution to this problem, and that properly teaching children on how to act online is crucial to protect them. This topic often makes me think of games that I played as a kid, with male and female options, which eventually had a lot of relationships drama, online dates, and similar things in them. A lot of players I saw there took the online relationships really seriously, and male characters (which were the minority) had a „girlfriend“ within seconds. Now those did have a boyfriend-option, and was mainly focused on chatting and not storyline, which surely added a lot to that, but maybe something similar, even if less extreme, could still happen? I don’t know, it is just a worry that I think should be discussed.

[@eleanornightwalker]

First of all I wanna thank you for being so respectful in your response. I'm not gonna pretend that these things don't happen (cause like I said, they already do). But I don't think it's right to push all the blame and responsibility onto the male gender (these weren't your words, I'm just amplifying my perspective). Excluding guys don't lead to these problems being solved, just like how excluding certain body types don't stop bullying. I think that, if tomantic roleplays pose a big problem, they should find other solutions, such as to make gender specific servers for people under a certain age, improve the chat filter and chat moderation, or to make stricter rules and consequences against romantic interactions

[@Piparoodle]

I'm female at birth but I'm pangender (when you are a mix of multiple genders) and it makes me very uncomfortable about playing as a female character in a fricking MMO. We should be able to change *our* character in an online game! It's beyond stupid how they call this game inclusive when people like me feel very shut out because of the gender dysphoria it causes.

[@charlottexia]

I would love to have male characters, but quite obviously SSO isnt going to give us male characters. But with the new character update they want to add more gender neutral options as for hair, so maybe we could look as a male?

[@ManyPhantomEXE]

one thing, if you're a boy, European server. (Hungary) im not a guy, but here in the dafodil rocks server there is no hatred for boys. the sever is full of romance roles tho

[@lunz.thatsit3787]

:)

[@darthducky7002]

I feel it’s more complicated than that. Even if they do make playable male characters, logging in as one and seeing all the girl characters riding around would make one feel self conscious and not want to interact with people. Alternatively, the handful of male characters may get special attention or something, and they may experience higher than normal chance that other people talk to them about their gender. At any rate, it will create new dynamics among the players, and not necessarily all positive. So even though I agree with your arguments and agree that it would be better if they had been more inclusive years ago when the game was establishing its player base, it may already be too late now. In the end, I expect SSO to treat this issue as a financial decision. Estimate how many new players they can potentially attract, and decide if it’s worth it. We as players can voice our preferences (or lack of a preference), but can’t demand one way or another, except maybe voting with our wallet

[@Wampirfan69]

While I agree a lot with most of your arguments I have an issue with the statement of "the game is getting to political/kids games shouldn't be politicial". Politics change reality and shape it, they are in a way our reality itself. It's not something we can just cut off. All stories with atleast some level of complexity will be inevatably political because they reflect reality. Everything is one way or another political.Especially kid stories since they want to teach the kids a good outlook on life. Wanting a non political story is wanting a sanitized one. Something as simple as who you make your villain is political. And sso has always been political. It has had an anti exploitation, anti company even anti capitalist statments in it for a while in the form of our figths with G.E.D and Dark Core Industries. In one of the earliest quests in moorland stables we literally comitt a crime to stop G.E.D. by tempering with their equipment.

[@eleanornightwalker]

You are absolutely right, there are countless of political aspects, and cutting out politics entirely is straight up impossible. What I mean by my statement of the game being "too political" is how their game marketing and campaigns seem to be used as political PR, and how many of their choices (not wanting to make male characters, changing the gender narrative in the story etc) seem to be politically driven, instead of an actual natural part of the game Let me use some examples to further clarify what I mean. I briefly mentioned pride events in the video. While pride and LGBT rights are undoubtfully important, I think this should be made a natural part of the game, instead of a promotional campaign. Like Sigry and Dr. Eiren's relationship, which feels very authentic and real, or the introduction of Rowan, a non-binary forest ranger. The rainbow festival is also a fun concept that can have a double meaning (I mean, rainbows are technically just things in the sky, and colors are always fun for kids. I only wish that the festival itself was made more interesting). However, using pride to promote themselves in social media, throwing pride-themed sales and boasting about their political values, is where I think they are over-politicizing things. Similarly, I also mentioned them making changes for "brownie points". The kind of changes I'm referring to here, are changes that don't come naturally as a result of character/story development, but rather in the name of political correctness. Like how characters suddenly are made out to have a different ethnicity or gender identity, without any further elaboration. It makes the game feel overly political, and less authentic, if that makes sense. I personally don't think that amount of politics belong in a game aimed towards children, because politics are an adult matter, and children should form their own opinions and world views as they grow up and build life experience. I'm especially thinking of how boys and men are framed, and what kind of gender views this feeds their impressionable minds (as an aunt of two, I wouldn't want my child playing a game that tells them to view boys and men as lesser). It's not like I think all kinds of politics are harmful, but if possible, I think they should be limited when children are the target audience, cause they haven't had the time to decide these things for themselves yet Sorry, this got very long, I just wanted to explain my perspective properly 😅

[@Wampirfan69]

@@eleanornightwalker No worries! I didn't mind the reading. And I agree, I despise companies using opressed groups for PR and promotion and as a feminist the treatmentof men disgusts me. I do hover think that even if the reasons for changing a character's ethinicity, race or gender was political on the companies part it doesn't make the game or charcter more political. People of minorities exist and them simpy being there isn't a political statement. It is a postive change even if the motives behind it were less then stellar. Somone who helps others for vanity still helps others after all even if for wrong reasons.

[@localmenaceImperio]

so you're deleting comments that dont agree with you. Cool. glad we can have a discussion lol

[@eleanornightwalker]

I haven't been deleting any comments, so if your comment has dissappeared, it must have broken youtube guidelines and been removed by the bots

[@stabilomadness4703]

Or maybe very few people actually disagree 😏

[@Adam-tm4im]

I would like to know why you don't agree with male characters, im listening

[@gardenhoe6946]

I'm not sure if a agree with EVERYTHING in this video, but she does have a point. As a male that used to play SSO (stopped cuz it's deadly boring) i didn't mind them not including male characters, i mostly play as female characters anyways + i spend my childhood playing a lot if games "for girls". But yeah, i don't think other's may agree. The romantic role play and predatory stuff is kinda ridiculous. First of all, girls can like other girls (queer people that they love to milk so much actually exist irl 🤯🤯🤯) and have romantic role plays with each other + it's already happening anyways!!!! So this argument is invalid. Second of all, predators have even easier time praying and earning children's trust when they actually look like a little girl, so this proofs again that this argument is invalid. Also, Denis being harassed is just ridiculous but that's a direct impact of this whole debate. The debate is unproductive if harassment is the outcome. The girl's empowerment stuff is valid and should be done by SSO, but the way they're approaching it is wrong. Also, not them talking about empowerment while all the old character models have been skinny for 11 years. I guess only skinny people deserve empowerment.

[@saltykitty9215]

Based Eleanor