Electric Car Battery Breakthrough: Is This The End Of EV Range Anxiety?

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Күн бұрын

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@mikadavies660 6 күн бұрын

I think the true "game changer" is PROOF of longevity. Now that manufacturers are offering 1,000,000km warranties. Plus many tests are proving very little degradation even after 300,000 to 500,000km. Then general public will be able to rest in the knowledge that the EVs will have a long life and stupid stories of batteries being useless after three years, can finally be put to bed.

@dominicgoodwin1147 6 күн бұрын

@@mikadavies660 they’re not stupid stories; they’re true stories of Nissan Leafs (Leaves?). And for lots of people, a second hand Leaf is all they can afford.

@mikadavies660 6 күн бұрын

@@dominicgoodwin1147 Mate, if they were saying "Nissan Leaf batteries" have limited life.... Then cool. As this would be accurate. But the stories are that "ALL" EV batteries are crap and all EVs only last "x years" and just saying that is stupid is actually being polite... When it's utter crap. Now when it comes down to what people "can afford" let us both not assume that people are so poor or so rich....! I am told that many thousands of cars are purchased in the £5,000 to £10,000 bracket. I would say that there are a few respectable EVs in that bracket that many people can look at. My friend has a Zoe with 186,000 miles on it. His battery has degraded to 79% and is still a very usable car.

@tomooo2637 6 күн бұрын

@@dominicgoodwin1147 Because it has no thermal management, and was one of the first (cheapish) EV. There is already plenty of real data - you know, evidence - that shows that batteries in modern properly designed EV cars will last longer than a ICE engine of gearbox.

@TheThunderdome-il3ez 6 күн бұрын

The only REAL proof will be thousands of cars lasting 20 years with minimal degradation. Indications are looking OK so far but we're only at 12 years or so for the Leaf & less for the Model S. Even the latest report suggests that many batteries will drop below 60% before the 20 years is up, for many use cases that might mean a replacement. As far as really solid proof is concerned there's nothing to do but wait, and that counts doubly for new technologies. The real game changer that could short circuit the waiting is an EV which is designed with eventual battery replacement & repair in mind i.e. making it easy and cheap. This alleviates the principle worry and means cars could potentially be made to last decades.

@paullynass4848 4 күн бұрын

You mean like mg in Thailand offering lifetime warranty for batteries and electric motors in their cars?

@keithoneill6273 6 күн бұрын

My understanding is that LFP (Lithium-Iron-Phosphate) batteries contain no cobalt, which I believe is what I have in my standard range MG5. These apparently have a significantly lower fire risk and much greater longevity than NMC. The downside is lower energy density.

@GruffSillyGoat 6 күн бұрын

Dave mixed things up a little, the MIT Cobalt free article he showed when discussing removing Cobalt is in relation to Lithium-Ion (i.e. NMC and NCA) batteries. The article discusses MIT's development of a Lithium-Ion Cobalt (and Nickel) free battery that achieves high energy density by using non-metalic organic substitutes. The article later references LFP as one example of an alternative battery technologies that also doesn't involve Cobalt, but the article's language is a little involved and doesn't state this clearly; I suspect MIT intended to draw more attention to their own development. [Excerpt]: _"Because of the many drawbacks to cobalt, a great deal of research has gone into trying to develop alternative battery materials. One such material is lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP), which some car manufacturers are beginning to use in electric vehicles. Although still practically useful, LFP has only about half the energy density of cobalt and nickel batteries."_

@stephenclay6852 6 күн бұрын

Take your point on the desire to do away with cobalt. But of course they don’t mention the fact that cobalt has been used in the petrochemical industry for years to help refine petrol. So when you look at it for every gallon burned in a ice car you need more unlike a battery. Once built that’s it. I know two wrongs don’t make it right but it is still worth mentioning.

@crm114. 6 күн бұрын

According to some channels, the game has changed so many times with regard to battery technology, I’ve lost track of where the game started.

@GruffSillyGoat 6 күн бұрын

Dave, a great round up of current battery status. I would like to add two Lithium based technologies that are in development currently, one is a about a year away and the other is about 5+ years. The 1st is LMFP, which is a variant on LFP but with Manganese in the Cathode, multiple battery makers (including CATL) are actively developing these and are at early commercialisation stage. Samples have been validated, starting last year, by automakers in their cars, including by Tesla. LMFP appears to be the most mature of the next-gen Lithium based chemistries. The batteries have a higher energy density than LFP, sitting at a mid-point between LFP and NMC. The downside is they have a lower cycle life compared to LFP but higher than NMC, hence are suitable for EV lifecycles (30+ years) but not so much in BESS. It is likely that LMFP will displace LFP in EVS, with LFP being used more in BESS being slightly cheaper. The 2nd is Lithium-Air, like the other metal-air batteries offers very high energy density.The reason for mentioning it is Lithium-Air offers the highest energy density of all Lithium battery technologies, with a maximum energy density potential of ~11,000Wh/kg (similar to that of jet fuel and petrol). This technology is being actively developed and sits at the cusp of pre-commercialisation - 5+ year timeframe. Currently the real-world production energy density is 1.3 to 1.7kWh/kg, which is similar to the level to that of petrol's useful energy capacity in an ICE car. Non-flamable solid-state and aqueous electrolytes can be used as well as flamable organic solvents. Any electrolyte breakthroughs for the other Lithium chemistries will likely also apply to Lithium-Air. The downside, and principle development area, is the low cycle life, currently at 800 to 1,000 cycles (though is higher than device Li-Ion/Li-Po). Research is active as Lithium-Air is ideal for battery flight enabling longer distances and/or heavier payloads. Further, systemic solutions such as swappable battery approach are being investigated, similar to the Nio EV's battery charging model. A number of battery manufacturers are also investigation high-recyclability battery designs, that offer rapid and cheap recovery of the Lithium at high grade to directly recycle into new batteries in an automated battery re-manufacturing (used in / new out) process. One additional point regarding Sodium batteries, is that while they will become cheaper than Lithium based batteries they are much heavier due to the higher atomic mass of Sodium (~3 x that of Lithium) as well as offer the lower energy density mentioned in the video. Sodium batteries may have aqueous (salt-water) electrolytes or more flamable solvent based ones, the latter offers higher energy density than water based. Whether the weight can be sufficiently addressed to be used in EVs is an open question, hence the initial focus has shifted to BESS ussage, where Sodium's high cycle life (10,000+ cycles) will offset their intial high production cost.

@tomlakosh1833 4 күн бұрын

Dave; please research the lithium-air battery that had specs of 1,000 Wh/kg and 1,000 cycles in Feb. 2023 as published in a news release from Argonne National Labs.

@peterjones6640 6 күн бұрын

Announcements about battery “super new” technologies are just that. You may have developed the fastest charging, greatest power density, safest battery of all time but the challenge is always getting it from laboratory trials to mass production, that’s the difficult part.

@StaggerLee1468 6 күн бұрын

'Reverse oxidation' is 'reduction'. Love this video. Proper nerdgasm 😝

@casperhansen826 6 күн бұрын

Actually it doesn't really matter, my EV will keep on driving almost as long as the first day. If you think you will get EVs with 1000 miles of range in the future you are wrong, no matter how cheap batteries get you will only pay for 300 miles Faster charging is maybe good, but it is already fast enough and the chargers will be even more expensive than now

@GruffSillyGoat 6 күн бұрын

As the EV market matures it will likely segment by range groupings to fit differen needs - first/town/city cars (150 to 250 miles), mixed/average family usage (~300 miles) and tourers & tow-ers (500+ miles). In the end there is a trade off between battery energy density, power, curb weight and efficiency when determining range different segments will seek differing combinations.

@wj9494 14 сағат бұрын

I’m sorry to hear that, especially since I get 200 miles @ 75-80 mph, on a 300+ mile car, guess I can’t go electric until we have more DC charging in rural areas. 😢

@steverichmond7142 6 күн бұрын

What a time to be alive....

@dominicgoodwin1147 6 күн бұрын

All these videos make me wish I had a Nio. The battery swap technology means you can get the car now, and keep putting in better batteries as time goes by. I just watched the road test of the Semi Solid 150kWh Battery with a 1000km range. Suddenly the Nio strategy makes sense.

@joeholbrook7560 6 күн бұрын

but will the car be compatible with new technology batteries. Making new tech backward compatible will limit its ability to take advantage of the new advancements. Nio make money by selling cars. Advancing battery tech on old cars is a huge cost. If nobody buys new cars with the new tech they will go bust.

@dominicgoodwin1147 6 күн бұрын

@@joeholbrook7560 Well that seems to be precisely what Nio are doing.

@joeholbrook7560 6 күн бұрын

@@dominicgoodwin1147 what going bust?

@dominicgoodwin1147 6 күн бұрын

@@joeholbrook7560 Treating the batttery pack as a separate unit. It's the most sensible strategy when the battery is evolving faster than the car.

@computerbob06 6 күн бұрын

Look at Bjorn Nyland's views on Nio battery swapping! In China there are queues at the battery swap facility as it takes 5 minutes to change a battery, so many more minutes waiting! If you get an 800v architecture car that goes from 10% to 80% in 18 minutes, the wait time isn't much more than at Nio stations and you can stay in the car - unlike the battery swap stations!

@Jaw0lf 6 күн бұрын

EV batteries are forever being promised to be smaller and faster charging. This was a good explanation of various options. LFP I believe already does away with cobalt and works well with little fire risk.

@chlistens7742 6 күн бұрын

It's always great to see a thorough review of different battery types. However, what I find most frustrating are the claims like "this is a Tesla battery killer" or "this will replace such-and-such battery." Just take a look at how many older battery types are still in use today-lead-acid batteries in cars, and alkaline batteries (like AA and AAA), for example, as well as other types for specific applications. Will lithium batteries eventually be replaced? Possibly. But will it happen before 2030? Probably not.

@ISuperTed 6 күн бұрын

The answer is no and I don’t need to watch the rest! I’m very pro EV and drive one, but we are miles away (sic) from getting rid of range anxiety. It’s not just having longevity and more range in the batteries, we have to have cheaper public charging prices, better infrastructure and cheaper EV’s overall. We will get there eventually, but it’s going to take many years and a combination of all of the above to achieve it. Of course the rabid anti-EV brigade won’t be happy until we have 1,000 mile range, charging the entire battery in 5 minutes and unlimited warranties on everything.

@robertowen6499 3 күн бұрын

Laws of Physics apply which means this just is not going to happen.There will be improvements but batteries are not the answer alone.

@chrisbailey1966 6 күн бұрын

It's really what people will pay for too. LFP will be a cost/benefit choice for the next few years new and longer on secondhand market.

@ctuna2011 4 күн бұрын

The battery is the new Gold Rush . 100's of start up's and every University has one. Someone will get it Right . The next round of improvements are already going into Chinese Cars .

@carlfrancis8565 6 күн бұрын

LFP (Lithium I'r'on Phosphate) is the safest EV-suitable option, currently being produced in huge by CATL and BYD, who are the 2 largest battery producers on the planet. LFP can also be fast charged to 100%, without accelerating degradation (i.e. shortening lifespan) compared with NMC, which must be trickle charged beyond 80% in order to preserve it's lifespan.

@jpmackin 3 күн бұрын

The future, no doubt, is electrifying……

@robertowen6499 3 күн бұрын

Range anxiety is , and always will be a major negative aspect of Electric cars and even more so when it comes to commercial vehicles.Electric cars and batteries will of course improve within the constraints of the Laws of Physics , though they will not be able to achieve the level of practicality that the Internal Combustion Engines did.More public transport and an increasing number of Public hire vehicles will probably go over to electric power.I am an aircraft electrical engineer and in common with the vast majority of technically trained and scientifically informed people can see very little prospect of commercial aircraft ever being powered by any type of battery.The same applies to ships and even most boats , where the latter are not designed primarily as sailing craft.

@davetakesiton 3 күн бұрын

Oh dear Robert, are you stuck in the "it won't work as we've always done it this way" mode? Please do a bit of research before condemning EV aircraft. For example; DHL already has a small fleet of “Alice” e-cargo planes supplied by Eviation in America operating on short haul runs on a trial and plan 12 more within 2 years. Just one of many examples

@sargfowler9603 6 күн бұрын

But will they produce cars with more range, or just keep the existing range and make them cheaper/lighter?

@davidcottrell570 5 күн бұрын

Both. Lucid is offering up to 512 miles of range (verified by Out of Spec on a 70mph range test, as well as Rivian, with up to 410. Do they cost? Of course they do. But they’re designed for continents the size of North America with big distances and pockets to match. In more densely populated places it begs the question of how much you really need. In summer months, my 2 year old Volvo is good for 250 miles, which is more than adequate for me - four hours on the road and I’m ready to visit a bathroom and have something to eat. The biggest enemy of electric cars isn’t weight - they’ll always be lighter than HGVs, it’s aerodynamics. As for making them cheaper, EVs rely on complex electronics and expensive batteries, so I can’t see how. At least there’s enough selection in the market of new and used cars that most people can find something that works for them if they choose to. I’ll never go back, and I’m glad there are straight shooters like Dave to clarify things for people testing the waters. Come on in, the water’s lovely!

@sargfowler9603 5 күн бұрын

@@davidcottrell570 Yea, I think they'll do both as well. Less cells will mean cheaper cars, more cells to give petrol type range. All we need are more chargers!

@davidcottrell570 5 күн бұрын

@@sargfowler9603 Home charging and on-street charging are key. We’re lucky in North America to have excess capacity, but older buildings and neighbourhoods have a problem even here. Home charging adds about 10% to my electricity bill, so it isn’t a lot of power that’s needed, but 40 amps on a 240 volt circuit, whether it’s single or split on three phases, mounts up if you need six chargers to service forty homes. So it will take a while to upgrade. The utility where we live is the single largest level 3 charger provider and their prices are reasonable, keeping the others honest. But if you are depending on oil companies like Shell or BP, you can hardly be surprised if they price for parity at the pump. They need competition, same as private insurance. That’s where I think the savings with EVs will come for most people. I used to drive a Land Rover V8. Now I can charge all year on less than two tanks’ worth, and the car only goes to the dealer every two years, instead of twice a year.

@chrisw3771 6 күн бұрын

Graphene is closer than you think.

@davetakesiton 5 күн бұрын

I hope so

@Harrythehun 3 күн бұрын

Cobalt mining, a perspective. If we stop mining for cobalt the poor countries and people will get even poorer. We know that the kids and women are taking the biggest burden when economy is trash. Controlled and safe cobalt mining is giving folks work and money to survive.

@DCGreenZone 6 күн бұрын

I have issues with incineration anxiety. Makes sense.

@carlfrancis8565 6 күн бұрын

When your EV battery catches fire, you will most certainly get out alive, and most likely without any injuries, because combustion is gradual. By contrast, if your gas tank combusts, the whole thing goes quicker than you can say 'woof!' meaning you & your loved ones stand little chance of surviving. Now, how sobering is it to realise that 🔋 🔋 are actually 'safer'?

@GruffSillyGoat 6 күн бұрын

Then avoid ICE cars and ICE-Hybrids in particular.

@BarryHeaven 6 күн бұрын

You could quote some actual data rather than nonsense you have read on social media. 0.0012% chance of a EV battery catching fire. 0.1% chance of an internal combustion engine vehicle catching on fire.

@DCGreenZone 6 күн бұрын

@@BarryHeaven Hyundai and Kia's fires were due to faulty ABS modules. Try harder. There is no comparison between a 5,000 degree EV conflagration and an ICE fire which can actually be extinguished most often. Try harder.

@Actually-y7j 6 күн бұрын

You're sounding stressed and unsure these days. Hope the mask not fallen off..

@undercoveraca 6 күн бұрын

We don't really need a breakthrough. We just need to get the higher density LFP batteries that already exist into EVs to get normal ranges of 600 to 700km with faster charging speeds. This will meet the threshold for mass market adoption. Without range anxiety people will prefer lower purchase prices over further range. 1000km batteries are a next decade thing, for now just hype outside of luxury niches or maybe a small market for super long range vehicles.

@dragosflorintaran1696 5 күн бұрын

I would like a BEV with a real range of 500km at highway speed during winter time at -20⁰C, with at least 0.3KWh/kg energy density, and at least 20% reduction in battery pack weight. Of course fast charging speed is a must, but I don't mind taking a half an hour break after each 400km on the highway/Autobahn.

@FrankLowe1949 6 күн бұрын

My question is can you use these EV's in a war if not they have a problem.😮

@wj9494 14 сағат бұрын

Great observation, the DoD is looking at a number of EV’s but they are being charged from portable diesel generators. The vehicles that I know about do not really fit the consumer market.

@huwjones5879 6 күн бұрын

As far as I'm aware these different battery chemistries have different capabilities when it comes to delivering peak current. This is why Tesla use the different types in their cars. Solid State has issues in EVs as it is brittle. I think, if any of these technologies get out of the lab and the investors don't get fed up, there will different batteries for different cars. Its not always the best tech that triumphs, its often the one that has the best traction in the market, I give you Betamax, m'lud.